They pulled the "shooter games make killers" argument on you, but with cars
@YUMBL2 жыл бұрын
Bingo.
@dycedargselderbrother53532 жыл бұрын
I await the news reports where YUMBL was spotted dumping cars into European cities and the resulting Nuremberg Trials.
@Gamesaucer2 жыл бұрын
Sorry to hear that you're getting hate for just playing a game. I'm very much on board with the anti-car sentiment but that's no reason to be a rude to people. Cities Skylines is a fun place to explore all kinds of ideas related to urban planning without the burden of real ideologies weighing on your shoulders... and it's sad that some people can't just let a game be a game. Besides, it's perfectly possible to be an interchange geek and also be anti-car.
@YUMBL2 жыл бұрын
Agreed :)
@Mgameing1232 жыл бұрын
@@YUMBL im my city that I just started on I would buy a plot with a railway line in it then I would build my city around the railway line but also have a highway connection for the industrial area. I never needed to use dual carriageway's and in the center I did a one way road system to reduce traffic. overtime that turned into a traffic bottleneck so I used the traffic management mod to only allow buses, and service vehicles to pass through. It really was a succes and I recommend peeps to build like that. I also used bus routes to serve to suburbs of the city
@Mgameing1232 жыл бұрын
@@trock7542 shut up man it pollutes less than a car also public transport is my hobby so ye.
@Gamesaucer2 жыл бұрын
@@Mgameing123 Guy's a troll, don't bother lol
@YUMBL2 жыл бұрын
Yea, I thought I already hid him. Sorry :)
@anlumo12 жыл бұрын
As someone who grew up and lives in a European city, it was immediately obvious in the first few minutes of playing it just how American the game is. I haven't even found a way to do pedestrian-only areas yet, and that's a major thing in my and other European cities. Most shopping miles don't allow car traffic at all, except for supplying the stores in the morning (before 7am). Also, a lot of parking is done in parking lots in newer construction projects. However, the situation is very different in Europe. Nobody ever starts planning and constructing a new city, we always attach to an existing one that was planned for a very different time. This leads to all roads being too narrow (near my home there's a major traffic route that has just one lane in every direction, which is the smallest road available in the game). The law also makes it impossible to just widen roads, like the road upgrade tool in the game. So, I think a European city building game would be very different to this one, maybe always starting with a small prebuilt town where everything was done wrong, and you having to expand on it.
@YUMBL2 жыл бұрын
Funny thing… cities was developed solely by a European company. Cities in the US don’t really develop this way either.
@matthewparker92762 жыл бұрын
There is a modded way to create pedestrian malls, though it isn't easy, and requires several mods. You need a road asset that allows pedestrians over the entire road (several do exist, some with tram tracks), traffic manager, and building spawn points. Some form of zoning control will also help. Use the pedestrian road to form the basis of the mall, behind the zoning squares place another road to act as an access road. Let all the buildings zone in (or plop them, if you're using ploppable buildings or plopping growables). Mark the buildings as historical, so you don't need to keep doing the next step. Move the spawn points for each individual building to the back of the building near the access road. And ban vehicles from the pedestrian mall. The pedestrians should still use the mall, but trucks and emergency services can access the buildings from the back. I'm pretty sure this works (I've never attempted it on an entire street), but it is very tedious to set up (which is why I've never attempted it on an entire street). You should be able to do the same with residential vehicles to have a sort of alley access system, where people leave by the rear when driving.
@000Trauma2 жыл бұрын
Network extensions 2 has pedestrian only (and service vehicles) paths and promenades that do the trick for me
@pbilk2 жыл бұрын
I use pedestrian streets and other mods to create plazas and car free zones. Mods are your friend to make non-car centric urban areas.
@Mike-ukr2 жыл бұрын
plenty of European countries both allow widening roads and building cities from scratch
@Kram10322 жыл бұрын
Imo if there ever is a Citys Skylines 2, I'd really like to see not more bureaucracy but still a more wholistic approach to city planning. Cities do so many things irl. Getting people from A to B is only one thing. - And granted, CS does more than that. It also gets good from A to B, say. But beyond that, all the other systems feel rather simplistic. It's not super interesting, for instance, to lay out water pipes or electric poles. If you activate catastrophes, maybe occasionally you'll have to redo those but for the most part? Place them once and you're done. No considerations of, say, water pressure or carefully placed substations or what not. (Not-that-extreme) weather also isn't really an issue: For instance, irl a problem some cities have is, that they are so paved over, that rain can barely drain away, causing local floods. Or the opposite, if you pump water out of the ground en masse, you may not only exhaust wells, but also have buildings start to sink and shift as the too dry ground below them compresses and cracks. Or badly built bridges might collapse from wind or even from people walking on them. Or many many other weird, unexpected outcomes of careless planning. It's perhaps not reasonable to expect literally all of these (and many more I have not touched upon) systems to be represented. That would likely make for a very heavy and impenetrable game. But surely it'd be possible to expand into at least some of these directions.
@gavinyip46802 жыл бұрын
As an civil engineer working for the government in design, the bureaucracy and politics is killer. Projects will just get delayed for months and sometimes just cancelled due to funding concerns or straight up large sections of projects get cancelled. In addition, politicians will go for new projects in their area to get votes, but because of that the maintenance budget is basically nil, so we have all these new stuff going up, but no funds for the material/labor to keep it running. Also funny that you mention poorly built bridges, we were just talking about that yesterday at work kinda. A major freeway bridge in our jurisdiction, is way past it's age for replacement, but it's a major lifeline for the area so a complete tear down is out of the question as it would kill the economy here, but it is slowly crumbling apart. Also for flooding, certain towns around here are built on flood plains and with the heavy rains we are getting, they are going to keep getting flooded, that might be an interesting thing to add.
@computernerdtechman2 жыл бұрын
Problem with what you are talking about is not all of us have a degree in structural engineering to calculate how much stress our bridge can take. Nor do we have the knowledge to analyze geological stress on water tables that might cause sink holes. You got to remember this IS A GAME, not a University simulator for Engineering students.
@nerdwwii80812 жыл бұрын
@@computernerdtechman games can be very realistic without the Need on Deep knowledge.
@Rwdphotos2 жыл бұрын
@@computernerdtechman a game can be designed with a lot of depth but still be easy to understand and play. 3d modeling and design programs use a lot of complex math for calculating things from angles and distances to stress forces, all without needing the user to do the heavy lifting themselves. You just need the grasp of the underlying concepts so you can figure out ways to work with and around them, which is also the base of what gameplay systems are designed around. If people can stick around to grasp how not to die for the thousandth time in a Souls game, they’ll stick around to figure out how to build a sewage system that can drain correctly, or how to more effectively place power transmission lines.
@computernerdtechman2 жыл бұрын
@@Rwdphotos I suppose they could build in something like that, but the problem is that adding in too much calculations can really slow down the simulation. Some peoples computers are already being bogged down if they have too many mods or assets. Adding in more calculations can make this even worse. If the developers made this an option you can turn on/off where if you turn it off, it skips calculating those factors maybe it would be viable. I personally use mods to turn off certain features I'm not interested in such as: 1) No Radioactive Desert And More! 2) Remove Need For Pipes 3) Electric Roads Mod 2.1.1 (which allows me to not worry about electric lines)
@nerogrant36692 жыл бұрын
As a urban planning degree student I'm on the fence about Car Centricity vs Public Transit Systems primarily because you can have great Transit but people will use cars and you can have great roads but also have idk decreasing traffic flow, Cities Skylines really gave me the perspective of being balanced when it comes to making cities, as a mass transit, someone who makes 90+ bus routes 10+ Train Routes and countless Monorail Lines I really prefer my cims to use Public Transport but moreover using my planning judgement that cims have the option to choose which mode of travel is rational, weighing transit cover, distance over using their cars, but in real life, it really does say that if you give people options then they'll more likely to consider the options, the problem nowadays with the car-centricity is that the modern city is built upon the automobile and people will choose cars if they have nothing else to choose, but if you as a planner provide options and choices then you give people the power to choose. So I think at the end of the day people are the driving factor to change, and Cities Skylines is just a game, for me at least it's a game where I as a practicing planner can put my skills to the test and really simulate decisions that will ultimately make a difference and change in people's lives.
@candle862 жыл бұрын
agreed the only public transit i used was a train to shave an hour off my commute thanks to rush hour, i still drove to said train, bus stop was right outside my apartment, but by bus it took 50-60 minutes to get to the train station, by car it took me all of 30 minutes. Ontop of that Bus's are cramped unpleasant things full of the dregs of society, pull out a phone and odds are someone is gonna steal it as they get off the bus, seen it happen to many time. I will ride a train, but Buses can go straight to hell, I'd rather take my car.
@regulate.artificer_g23.mdctlsk2 жыл бұрын
I think people only ride cars because they HAVE to; I don't think there's _that_ many people wanting to drive the car _all the time,_ just on a few occasions or when they need to get somewhere far and disconnected from transit. If transit, cycling or walking is much more convenient and reliable, they'd take those options more than they'd chose to drive. You'd take the car too if alternatives aren't viable, more convenient or nonexistent. The thing is: life becomes better when you're not car dependent.
@candle862 жыл бұрын
@@regulate.artificer_g23.mdctlsk Disagree, I dont like public transit, its full of other people
@regulate.artificer_g23.mdctlsk2 жыл бұрын
@@candle86 that's not really an argument, is it?
@candle862 жыл бұрын
@@regulate.artificer_g23.mdctlsk yes it is, I don't like people. I prefer the privacy of my own car. I don't have to worry about theives, I don't have to hear someone's music
@VeraxonHD2 жыл бұрын
Honestly I'm shocked that people have come to a channel as open, straight shooting and helpful as yours to derail the community discussions. Like you I'm just here to learn how to play my videogame a bit better 😅👍
@ausome_valkyrie98762 жыл бұрын
Not going to lie, I have binge watched your videos and used a lot of the tips/tricks you've mentioned to better enjoy cities: skylines -- was happy to catch your stream last night as well -- thank you for these videos :D
@reverse_engineered2 жыл бұрын
The concern that a car-centric city building game encourages car-centric urban planning sounds a lot like the concern that first-person shooters create mass murderers. In both cases, people seem to forget that playing a game isn't about practicing a real-world skill; it's about understanding a system and learning to master it. No reasonable person thinks that playing Doom will make them good at killing demons or that playing Street Fighter will make them good at hand-to-hand combat. Why should we assume that a city building game would make you good at building cities? Cities: Skylines is heavily based on the SimCity games that came before it - a game that defined the entire genre of city-building games. Compare it to SimCity 2013 and you'd be forgiven for thinking it was just an improved clone. The original SimCity itself started as a game whose primary simulation was based on Jay Wright Forrester's "Urban Dynamics", which attempted to model the operation of real-world urban areas in terms of population, industry, and housing. "Urban Dynamics" has been roundly and rightly criticized for being reductive and a poor model in general. It leaves out a lot of important considerations and doesn't predict well what happens when atypical approaches are used. As a tool for simulating urban areas for making policy decisions, it's terrible. But if we forget for a moment that the original model was meant to actually model real-world urban areas and instead think about this as being some underlying mechanic of a game, then we see that it makes for a fun game. The model is complex, the system is dynamic, small changes can have long-term consequences and the system is never truly balanced. Part of the mastery is in understanding the model itself and how the forces affect each other. Another part is simply being able to manage all these variables on a large scale - much like spinning plates. It's a challenging and satisfying system of mechanics. And yet, it's limited enough in scope that it's approachable and understandable. Despite the complexity of keeping the system balanced, there are relatively few variables that need to be considered; far less than a real-world analog would require. This makes it quite suitable for making an enjoyable game. If you look at successful cities in Cities: Skylines or other city-building games, it's often apparent that they look nothing like real-world cities. Again, the system of mechanics these games are based on isn't a good model of real-world urban activity. There are plenty of ways to break the model entirely so that obviously important needs aren't met. Systems that are highly optimal under this model would never work well in the real world. If would-be urban planners are coming to this game hoping to practice the real-world skill of urban planning, then they are setting themselves up for failure. This is not an accurate simulation of the real world. It's a game meant for entertainment. The insufficiency and limitations of this model should be quite obvious to an urban planner. Anybody using simulations within this game to make arguments for real-world policy decisions is incompetent. But that doesn't stop it from being an entertaining and enjoyable game. Games don't have to be perfect replications of real-life. None of them ever are or rarely even fall close. And plenty of game development theorists will tell you that it would be beside the point. We play games for many reasons: challenge and mastery, exploration, creativity and self-expression, and many more. A game doesn't have to be realistic to provide these things. Often, it's easier to provide these things by taking things from real life and making them simpler or fantastical - giving players something they could actually engage with. Cities: Skylines is praised for its robust traffic simulation despite the fact that this same simulation has clearly obvious flaws. The time and distance scales are way out of proportion to the real-world. Drivers don't drive at different speeds or change lanes to adapt to their immediate surroundings. Vehicles will weave impossibly close to each other through an intersection, often completely intersecting. Collisions simply don't happen. Pedestrians will happily walk right through the middle of traffic. Traffic emerges from one place in the world and disappears in another place in the world with no requirement for persistence or return paths. The vehicles don't make round-trips with multiple stops. If you're looking for the kind of traffic simulation that would make for proper traffic engineering, this is not the place to find it. And that's just the traffic. The economic, environmental, and other parts of the simulation are trivial. The focus of the game is clearly on traffic management, with those other factors being present only to provide feedback that drives the traffic and constraints that make management more challenging. But none of that matters because Cities: Skylines isn't meant to be a teaching tool for future urban planners any more than Lego is meant to be a teaching tool for future civil engineers. It's a game to be played for entertainment. That it can introduce the player to some real-world concepts and sometimes even does a reasonable job of representing real-world behaviors is a nice side-benefit that makes the game more compelling, but it's not a tool to be used to simulate real-world urban planning or policy making. It's a video game; no more and no less. People who find the most efficient ways to build road networks in Cities: Skylines aren't harming the world any more than people who find the most efficient ways to score points in Tetris. Yumbl isn't encouraging bad urban planning policies by exploring how to make efficient road networks in a video game. Just let the game be a game. If you're upset about urban planning policies, talk to the policy makers who make those policies; don't complain about someone playing a video game for fun.
@Gerrit26862 жыл бұрын
"The concern that a car-centric city building game encourages car-centric urban planning sounds a lot like the concern that first-person shooters create mass murderers." Well said!
@DuckInGameStop2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, video games really don't influence people's actions as much as some people think. For example, I've been absolutely loving Forza Horizon 5 (a racing game) recently, but it doesn't make me want to actually buy a Lamborghini or something and drive around Mexico racing people at a music festival, it's just a fun way to spend my time.
@markusz44472 жыл бұрын
Cities skylines is basically traffic manager with plopping in a few buildings
@wolframstahl12632 жыл бұрын
It's traffic with a purpose, not traffic for traffic's sake. But still more than anything else, it's traffic.
@MaxFX19842 жыл бұрын
Biggest problem today is people having their opinion and pointing finger ready before knowing the whole story... Great video!!
@OntarioTrafficMan2 жыл бұрын
I really relate to the bit about how fans of urban planning channels can oversimplify things to absurdity. It drives me nuts how as part of my work when we are trying to improve walking & cycling safety, we face opposition from urban planning enthusiasts who have been told that a certain tool (e.g. one-way streets, or turning lanes, or whatever) is pedestrian hostile. Anything can be pedestrian-friendly or pedestrian hostile, depending on how it is implemented! Even a freeway can be pedestrian-friendly, if it allows a traffic to be removed from a parallel route through inhabited areas.
@@stuchly1 I call it the Twitter mentality. It's easy to get lots of likes with a sweeping statement, and virtually impossible with a nuanced and thorough explanation of the actual issues.
@bellairefondren73892 жыл бұрын
You criticize sweeping statements in your follow-up comment yet, "Anything can be pedestrian-friendly or pedestrian hostile, depending on how it is implemented" is a sweeping statement as well.
@OntarioTrafficMan2 жыл бұрын
@@bellairefondren7389 true. Hopefully nobody takes my statement to mean that literally everything can be pedestrian-friendly. There probably are some exceptions
@bellairefondren73892 жыл бұрын
@@OntarioTrafficMan So the reason I brought this up is, with all due respect, I'm not sure how much we can get from this statement. If anything can be made pedestrian friendly, it's just all in the implementation, then it sounds like a lot of infrastructure could...actually not pedestrian friendly. Aka, a significant amount of infrastructure is not pedestrian friendly. And, the statement kinda looped in all types of infrastructure together, from pedestrian malls to freeways, although one could say one form is going to be more pedestrian friendly than the other in aggregate.
@TonyBridges422 жыл бұрын
I'm guilty of this myself, but any kind of sim game quickly gets people that forget it's supposed to be a fun game. It is hard to find a balance between a better simulation and a game that is fun to play and many of us assume incorrectly that a more accurate or complete game will be better.
@devononair2 жыл бұрын
Agreed! There are also different reasons for building a skylines city, right? You could try to build a realistic modern city, try to build a bad city then fix it, try to build a futuristic utopia, or even build a nightmare city of doom! Each of those ultimately asks different things from the game, hence people disagreeing about the pros and cons of the game.
@bellairefondren73892 жыл бұрын
I'd like to see the districts fleshed out. Where you get health, safety, and housing metrics that can encourage you to more directly provide services needed. And also, to flesh out what can get sims to be sick. Like putting no parks increases chronic disease or wide roads/freeways cause accidents.
@DoremiFasolatido19792 жыл бұрын
Actually, the purpose of play is instruction and practice. Fun is the bait...not the point. The entire point of play is for animals to learn and practice particular skills in a relatively safe and effective manner. That it's enjoyable basically amounts to the same thing as love and orgasms...it's just a biochemical bribe to convince us to do it.
@smortg2 жыл бұрын
As someone who lived in a major city, I enter every game I start with the mindset of creating viable options. At times, this manifests as wanting to plan my tunnel routes before I've even hit 2000 inhabitants, because, especially in this car centric game, the need to provide options is paramount. It has helped me to reflect on real life scenarios. When I go further out or to smaller towns, I notice how many persons will be in traffic as solitary drivers. Then I check the bus timetable and realise that many have been soft coerced into driving, along with the costs of maintenance and insurance that likely causes a slight resentment for the road. Cities Skylines, among other reasons, is great because it can prompt consciousness about the real world we live in, while giving space to theory craft creative approaches to builder a better one
@kleckerklotz96202 жыл бұрын
I guess, it doesn't matter who made CSL. Most of the concepts are "borrowed" from Sim City, which was an American game. Any other game designer would have done it that way. Also, game designers are no city planners, even if they have some experience in making city simulations. It's not their goal to recreate absolute realism. The goal is entertainment - and that is most of the time something completely different. It's funny how people get "over politically correct" in the name of living conditions, even though it's basically just a game. Maybe it's due to the fact that there is a new generation of citiy planners who are young enough to play the game and realize in the second step how car centric it is. If I were you, I wouldn't take it personally. It is a sign of how good the game is that even city planners acknowledge it and they, along with other people, get upset about the shortcomings. It just means that a follow-up game would have to address this. At least I hope so - only because there are always people who take things very seriously. (Btw. I played the first Sim City)
@bellairefondren73892 жыл бұрын
How are people getting "overly politically correct" though. Do we consider criticism as being PC?
@kleckerklotz96202 жыл бұрын
@@bellairefondren7389 How to design a city is a political decision. At least in my country. Yes, I understand Yumble has medial reach and by that some kind of responsibility. But hey, he is playing a game! If now someone demands the political correct behaviour from someone who only plays a game, which does not supply the political correct framework by default, is that "overly politically correct" in my humble opinion. Even if the game supplies an approriate framework, it is still a game. You should be allowed to play games as you wish. You should be allowed to do wrong things in a game. Otherwise you create barriers in your mind. And that is poison for a society in my humble opinion. Yumble is a responsible person. He points out, that a car centric city is bad. But that's all you can demand from him. On the other hand you are allowed to criticise whatever you like to criticise. But be aware, that some of those critiques are simply pointless - especially when it comes to games. If you criticise such things, you make a fool of yourself.
@GamingBren2 жыл бұрын
I agree, and I also played SimCity before moving on to CSL.
@kleckerklotz96202 жыл бұрын
@@GamingBren Well, I said I played the first Sim City. And I meant I played it in the 90ies on the i386 machine of my father... ;)
@GamingBren2 жыл бұрын
@@kleckerklotz9620 I played 2013 before jumping into 4. I definitely prefer the latter, especially with mods like NAM (the one with the TULEPs and RHWs). Cities is definitely easier to mod, as we had to get someone else to guide us through downloading the NAM for SC4. I have also played Buildit, and I think that one is absolute garbage. It feels like it’s pay to win. Even after the addition of different regions, it still felt bad. I just *hate* modern-day EA.
@shieldstv60562 жыл бұрын
I used to live in Northern Virginia too. Extending the Metro into Loudon would make a massive difference. My commute from Ashburn to Reston one summer was absolutely dreadful.
@YUMBL2 жыл бұрын
Ashburn and Reston are next to each other too! 😂
@shieldstv60562 жыл бұрын
@@YUMBL exactly! And it still took 45:00 minutes!
@matthewparker92762 жыл бұрын
The car centric elements I most want removed are ones that limit creativity. Things like requiring all connection to a building be road connections, and not having side loading for buildings, which make pedestrian or transit malls impossible, or not allowing grade separated pedestrian connections between buildings, forcing all Cims to interface with traffic. Mods do help, but many of them are limitations of the game systems, which make them a sequel problem. I think an ideal version of cities skylines would allow for car centrism, even as a seeming default, but allow you to explore less car centric designs, since that give you more options for creativity.
@YUMBL2 жыл бұрын
Check out “building spawn points” to move spawns to the side entrances.
@matthewparker92762 жыл бұрын
@@YUMBL it is a good mod for creating more intricate traffic interactions.
@YUMBL2 жыл бұрын
Yes, but it also makes ped and transit malls possible :)
@matthewparker92762 жыл бұрын
@@YUMBL it is a use case I intend to explore more in the future, though I'd hope for a simpler (for the user) system to be added in CS2, like building autodetecting all available roads and allowing spawning on all of them, plus more tiers of zoning allowed, like whether or not a road allows driveways.
@lukasmax69842 жыл бұрын
Fun fact: buildings in Cities in Motion did not require a road connection. The Cims would exit their car or public transport vehicle and then walk to the building, even over grass.
@JeffFromTheIRS2 жыл бұрын
I watch your tutorials because they’re literally possible solutions to help me manage traffic in my city. And it’s not like I lack public transit either. Keep doing what you’re doing Yumble! I appreciate all the videos you do.
@wolframstahl12632 жыл бұрын
I've been to Munich a while ago. It's amazing how well their public transit works, how fast you can get from one end of the city to another, it's also surprisingly easy to walk places (or bike or even use rental e-scooters). Being in a car there on the other hand can be an absolute nightmare.
@YUMBL2 жыл бұрын
Absolutely! There are many places I dont want to bring a car to.
@JMWZ_E2 жыл бұрын
And Munich has its transport weaknesses as well sending all S-Bahn lines through just one trunk line tunnel with the second tunnel currently under construction just being a clone of the first. Berlin has a great solution with its three trunk lines (East-West "Stadtbahn", North-South and the Ring).
@wolframstahl12632 жыл бұрын
@@JMWZ_E Yeah, definitely. What was actually most impressive to me in Munich was the efficiency at stops, how well and coordinated people were acting, although it looked like chaos. I live in a smaller city, but it's big enough to have a few tram lines. There are times where it's as fast to walk through the city as it is to take the tram. Each stop takes ages. The lines in Munich each easily transport several times more people, but each stop takes not even half as long as it does here. I think Nuremburg on the other hand is famous for how well it manages car traffic. I definitely watch these things a lot more closely since I started watching Yumbl, I've definitely developed a new fascination with the topic since I started bingeing this channel.
@catman64k2 жыл бұрын
I grew up in Munich in the meanwhile i live near the City of Ulm. However im still regularly in Munich, but its amazing how i travel to Munich by car, but when im there i only use public transport within the city. 20 years ago driving a car in Munich was a nightmare, in the meanwhile they improved it by a lot, as they tunneled the whole Middle Ring (Mittlerer Ring) and also build a 3/4 highway Ring around it. The Munich City planners are actually doing a good job. However i still wouldnt recommend to drive into the City Center, if you dont need to. And yes the S-Bahn tunnel is the biggest bottleneck. But in this case they dont have many option to get around that, as a lot of infrastructure is already there. Historic Munich was served with Tram Lines (starting with horse trams in the 19th centeury), in the 70's and 80's they replaced trams with subways. so the tram network decayed. In the meanwhile they are starting again with new tram lines, for cases where a subway is over the top and a bus line would have a to low capacity. however traveling between cities is a nightmare, its a shame how unreliable the intercity network in Germany is.
@wolframstahl12632 жыл бұрын
@@catman64k Yeah, compliments to Munich city planners definitely. With what they've got to work with they really are miracle workers. Less compliments to intercity rail. While a lot of things improve traffic-wise, rail just gets continually worse.
@Marconius62 жыл бұрын
I think the main issue is that Cities just doesn't give you the *option* of making a less car-centric city: building pedestrian paths is very limited, you can't have residential buildings connected solely for walking, there's no mixed zoning, bike paths are kind of basic with no traffic control, the train AI is dead simple, etc. It's totally understandable why they made the game road-centric, seven years ago, but I'm hoping if they ever make Cities 2, they'll give us more options there! As for roads, they're still necessary: as you said, services still need to use roads, but more importantly, goods need to get to stores somehow; you can't just have a train station in the back of every corner store, or expect them to carry stuff there by hand. So having a good road network, with nice intersections and layout, is still important, even if every private citizen left their cars at home!
@xtnuser53382 жыл бұрын
Like a game needs to be socially justified beyond, "It's fun so people play it."
@Sum41rthe12 жыл бұрын
"I believe the thing that keeps people coming back is the traffic simulator" - 100% for me. My cities always end up feeling the same. No personality in them. I have to use my own imagination to make stories for my cities. I can't have a truly rough area of town with high crime and poor schools, and then the nice houses in the hills. I hate there is no "classes" in CS and it is all just levels. I shouldn't have to have 3 police stations to cover one long mountain road peppered with mansions, it shouldn't need any police stations. I love this game but I can very easily get bored and not come back for 2 months.
@devononair2 жыл бұрын
Hmm, yeah. The service coverage is pretty odd. I built a motorway service station using some ploppable RICO assets and it was difficult to get dead bodies removed, due to its location, so now it I have given it its own crematorium that I turn on and off when needed! LOL
@Sum41rthe12 жыл бұрын
@@devononair my god the amount of crematoriums needed 😂 I have no shame in admitting I turn of crems using a mod. Dead people magically disappear in my city and I am very happy with it
@devononair2 жыл бұрын
@@Sum41rthe1 Hahaha. There are mods for almost every service. I like the power one. I hate that underground cables aren't a thing and so I use the mod that means that power gets magically sent to buildings.
@kleinerprinz992 жыл бұрын
Actually richer districts and areas getting better policing and more dense service network opposite poor districts with no funding is quite realistic and what happend in the USA from the 70ies on. Maybe add in the occasional walled off estates and some private security company.
@jeremychan97992 жыл бұрын
Not going to lie, I’m a big fan of urban planning channels, and I have questioned the way you build and plan in cities skylines, in the early days of discovering your channel. It just seemed reasonable to me, to blend cities skylines and real life urban planning together. Watching more and more of your videos however, it’s made me realise that playing cities skylines is a lot different to planning a city in real life. I’m sorry that you’ve received so much negative comments that you’ve had to make this video, but I’d just like to say that your videos are really fun to watch and that you should definitely continue doing what you love doing. Keep up the great work!
@michaelfotheringham91922 жыл бұрын
I kind of disagree in that I think designing walkable and transit friendly cities in cities skylines is just as fun as car centric because really roads still need to be there no matter what and the traffic simulation is going to be fun to play whether you're making an American highway city or a modded pedestrian and small road city, either way road and traffic management and good layout designs are important for what you want. I think CS is fun because of the traffic sim but I think it would be whether you want it car centric or not, not BECAUSE it's car centric and that game would be equally as fun with both options.
@MegaLokopo2 жыл бұрын
I love how colossal order's name is such a great description of what they have asked for with this game.
@mondodimotori2 жыл бұрын
The problem is that Urban Planning is a complex science. And like any other complex science on the internet, people thinks that a couple of youtube videos are enough to discuss about it.
@FMuscleZ282 жыл бұрын
My own experience, a few years ago, living in Rockingham, working in Perth CBD, was that it took 5 minutes longer to drive in traffic to work than to take the commuter train. But I would drive most of the time, because; 1. The buses would come every 25 minutes to reach the station in the mornings. Miss it, you're late. 2. Driving to the station and parking there would add $10 per week to my transport budget. 3. Using the transport card system helped save on the regular price, but it still cost me just as much per day, than to drive all week, including weekends.
@aturchomicz8212 жыл бұрын
Ok Motorist
@HarrowKrodarius2 жыл бұрын
Basically everything that is wrong with car centric design, public transport get stuck in traffic, and is usually just implemented as an quickfix that fixes nothing because the routes they mostly follow doesn't bring people where they usually need to go or want to go to.
@cdw2468 Жыл бұрын
on point 2: does it actually add $10 to your budget? think about the amount of miles (KMs?) you’re putting on your car. how quickly your components wear out, how often you need repairs, etc. sure you may pay $10 up front, but you might need 2 less car repairs, maybe it saves you from having to buy 1 whole car in your life cumulatively. those other points are totally valid and are the result of bad transit planning and are fairly simply remedied (free and more frequent public transportation), but i think there needs to be a mindset change with how we think about cars in order to make a fair comparison between the 2 methods
@BruceRichardsonMusic2 жыл бұрын
OH YUMBL!! I feel you, bro. In real life, I've served as an appointed zoning official, and I live in a car-centric City that ripped out its streetcar system (and an interurban railway connecting to other cities) in the 1940s. We are literally 100 years behind where we were 100 years ago. And there is the rabid New Urbanist contingent here in town, screaming "Rip it all out. Do away with parking minimums, replace highways with boulevards," and basically everything you hear on the urban planning channels, ad nauseum. And yeah. Wouldn't that be nice if real life were like Cities Skylines, and you could just rip it all out for the price of a few frowny-faces and plop a regional commuter train system with trams to every neighborhood. But, that ain't happening. And in this part of the country, car culture is generations from giving way...if it ever does. You'd need a transportation system for people to experience, for one thing. Not all people travel, or have lived as a mass transit commuter. We have miles of light rail, but it's concentrated in just a few lines. Commuting by rail here nearly always involves lengthy bus trips on either end, and you still might end up a quarter-mile from your destination. Now we have a micromobility task force that is primarily arguing for bringing back scooters. We had them for a while, but the implementation was catastrophically bad. They were strewn everywhere. There were piles of them in an urban lake!! We seem poised to try again, although I don't know how the second implementation will differ from the first. And then, someone asks the perfectly reasonable question, "Why do I want my commute to take four times as long? And then have to ride a scooter to complete it?" I feel like I need to put together a TED talk, called..."Remember, we have to get there...from HERE." Not from an imaginary utopia.
@thefrub2 жыл бұрын
At first I genuinely thought you were talking about my city, but then I realized you're describing the identical problems of hundreds of middle-American cities. Post-WWII really fucked us all in terms of city planning.
@BruceRichardsonMusic2 жыл бұрын
@@thefrub I think it's innocent enough, right? I''m 63 years old, so I recall that we were still in interstate highway expansion mode back in my earliest recollections. But there was still the "See the USA in your Chevrolet!" vibe all through the '60s. I recall transportation debates beginning to enter the mainstream during the late '70s gas shortage. My current city is the 9th largest in America. At least the urban core would have had a substantial streetcar network had they left it in place. In my neighborhood you can still see two sets of those tracks running down the center of a couple of north-south collectors. We have some rights-of-way over the central n/s interstate corridor, reserved in a prior redesign of that highway. But there just isn't enough budget money to add a lot of rail, and without a truly functional rail system, you cannot overcome a multigeneration car culture. I've had the opportunity to travel and work in cities worldwide where good, efficient commuter rail systems are a true option. In fact, when I lived in Seoul, taking the rail was by far faster than riding in a car. Getting in a car meant agonizing crawling traffic. The two way collector that ran in front of my hotel was twelve lanes wide. It was ludicrous. And the artist I was working for (at the time I was a full time touring musician) felt it was "common" for his band members to be taking public transportation, so we were often coerced into thankless hours of being shuttled around by our translator. We preferred the rail. Even if you added the walk or bus ride from the hotel, rail got us almost everywhere in the city quickly. You'll never convince someone born in my current city and accustomed to car culture to give it up when rail takes sometimes five times as long from point a to point b, factoring in the bus schedule you have to juggle to get you to the rail lines. I'm sure you are right about other cities, particularly southern cities like mine. Complicating the public transportation/micromobility argument is the fact that we live in Hell's oven, and just went through what seemed like two solid months of 105-degree days. How are you going to function in meetings, etc., if by the end of your grueling commute you are soaked to the bone in sweat? It seems to me there would have to be a federal push of some kind to get cities like these on track. If your urban core is landlocked by suburbs, and therefore developable land and tax base expansion is near or past tapped, then there's only so much money to invest in that level of infrastructure. Cities who didn't abandon their rail in the post WWII years are fortunate. But I don't think they could have foreseen just how stupid that was. The assumption at that time was that we'd have "flying cars" and monorails winding through space age cities. We were obsessed with space age futurism. But things just didn't work out that way.
@ralalbatross Жыл бұрын
The response to the perfectly reasonable question is the following. Your commute is already as long as you imagine your new fake commute would be. Trains do 120kmh. Cars do 30kmh in rush hour. Do the maths
@ralalbatross Жыл бұрын
@@BruceRichardsonMusicin large part due to the vast sums of money spent on your urban preference mate. You were a city planner or at least adjacent. You essentially built these car centric polluted heat trap deserts and signed off on them. Maybe rather than saying 'oh we all fucked it up and it'll never be undone live with it', apologise to the future generations you screwed over and make amends by getting out of their way.
@orsivan57312 жыл бұрын
Another point is that you learn how public transport might reduce traffic, but at the same time it comes with a price. The infrastructure is costly and maintenance isn't always worth it for the less popular lines.
@13n13042 жыл бұрын
I would like cities skylines to be less car centric tho. I would love to see some mixed zoning for example. I would also like to see something like traffic manager but easier to use and more reliable in the base game, pedestrians areas in the city center. It all doesn't work very well in the game unless you use mods and a lot of effort.
@Rwdphotos2 жыл бұрын
I have parts of my city with mixed zoning, and other parts with concentrated zoning. The mixed zoning areas were the original zones of the city before a lot of transit was available, which likely correlates to how a city might evolve irl too. There isn’t a lot of traffic in the mixed zones, but it’s all low-density though. Raising its density will likely destroy the area, and high density commercial generates a huge amount of noise, so you can’t really have it mixed. The newer and more highly concentrated sectors are planned with walking paths and public transport between each sector so I can max the density. My main mass transit options are metro and monorail though, as I don’t have the other dlc, so it’s become an issue of managing the metro systems to better work with the walkway pathing layout.
@lachlanokeefe80202 жыл бұрын
@@Rwdphotos I think they're talking about mixed zoning in terms of two types of zoning for one building, for instance an apartment with a storefront on the first floor, or a shop people also use as a house.
@hamingnu66102 жыл бұрын
This is really all I'm trying to appeal for as well. I don't want to impede people from building American-style Euclidean-zoned areas (Edit: Because some people truly want to imitate that). But, I'd totally appreciate a whole lot more options. Of course, I do concede that they may be a little more complicated for the sake of gameplay, so I guess it's always gonna be a case-to-case basis. I just hope we get less car-centric options as well, that are a bit more thorough. I feel like that'd give a whole new amount of 'fun'.
@WestOfEarth2 жыл бұрын
It's rather sad that some people confuse your channel with reality. That's like someone accusing a streamer of supporting murder when they play Hitman or Metal Gear. Heck I no longer drive a car by choice, but I still enjoy your channel and City Skylines for traffic management (one aspect out of several of course).
@e2mastermind2 жыл бұрын
What I learned from this video was how to build my own Blvds hahah thanks !
@bsandoval23402 жыл бұрын
As an american who got into this while simultaneously learning about many of the downfalls of cars and suburban development. I didn't care that much of this games was car-centric. Video game are meant to be fun and critising based in how they want to play a video game that they enjoy is just wrong. Im also a big sim racer and much of the community criticizes others for playing games like forza and the like that are not "true sims" while i do agree with that statement that Forza isn't a "true sim" if you have fun playing forza I don't care if you have fun playing forza then go ahead. In this internet world we so critical of other just enjoying playing video games and wanting to share that with the world.
@ruan13o2 жыл бұрын
I agree that if there was a Cities Skylines 2 I wouldn't want the traffic management element to disappear and I would not want a bureaucracy simulator either as that would not be fun. But what I would like to see is for the pedestrian, cycling and public transit elements to be more complex and rewarding. For example if there are feedbacks from the citizens on where they'd like a transit stop to be. Or have pedestrian only road or no ICE roads (without using mods). Maybe the weather affects what transport people are more likely to use. Maybe what kind of district might affect how someone wants to travel there. One way that I suspect would actually really encourage players to think about limiting cars would be to force you to have to build car parking. I bet most players would quickly realise they don't want 20% of their city to just be car parks and think of other solutions. At the moment it often feels like it's a game about roads and everything else is an afterthought.
@lordmalachi62 жыл бұрын
I feel like I've often had a duality of opinion with CS and real life.. I didn't really start grasping what it was I disliked about real city planning until I started playing CS and learning about the concepts at work. Then I naturally fell into the "stroads are bad, walkability is good" mindset because, honestly it's factually true. But I still loved the logistical mindset of making cars go smooth in CS even if I would hate living in those cities myself. Then again that's not new to me. I've always preferred the villains in fictional stories, this isn't that different xD
@honza-01782 жыл бұрын
Like that will stop me from building mostly 4-track railways everywhere anyway.
@doom-generation41092 жыл бұрын
Just stumbling across this video and channel, in my random perusal for things CS or urban planning related, and as much as I love them, your send up of urban planning KZbin channels had me literally laughing out loud. Easy sub.
@Maxime_K-G2 жыл бұрын
Precisely because of videos like these I've been trying to build an active transportation city in Vanilla Skylines and I'm happy to report it isn't just possible but actually kind of OP (just as in real life). I only have one 4 lane highway running through my current city, mostly underground and with only three exits. The rest of the transit happens via avenues with roundabouts, bike paths and trains.
@kraggle69792 жыл бұрын
It’s strange how from playing a game and talking about what you are making or building, some people assume that your view of that specific build is absolute in real world. Such a weird thought. If you look at how RTGames plays, does this mean his view is solely to drown the real world in sewage, it just doesn’t make sense. I like to play Call of Duty, that doesn’t mean I am pro war, quite the opposite. No War Please! Yumbl, I really enjoy your videos and have never thought that you had an alternative motive other than to show us great cities and interchanges and other builds… in which you also give great commentary’s relative to the game. Thank You!
@YUMBL2 жыл бұрын
Much appreciated :)
@Lankpants2 жыл бұрын
I think I can talk to what's happening here. "Drown the world in sewerage" is such an absurdist idea that no-one could actually take it seriously as a statement. Contrarily building of car centric design is just what the world looks like, so the idea that it could be an actual position held by the person producing the content seems more reasonable. I think the "pro war" is in the middle ground between the two, unlike drown the world in sewerage it is an actual position that exists, but it's very unpopular and tends not to be the assumed default. The issue Yumbl's running into here is that this position is viewed as both a valid and default position, so if he doesn't actively talk against it he's going to be assumed to be defacto siding with the status quo. This isn't to justify anything, it's just an observation of why people don't treat these things the same.
@kraggle69792 жыл бұрын
@@YUMBL anytime 😘
@kraggle69792 жыл бұрын
@@Lankpants I do see what you are saying, however it seems just as absurd for someone to take someone’s views about a game mechanic as their world belief 😂
@donlively43342 жыл бұрын
This is weird, but I have always focused on the buildings not the roads. It's not a city builder, it's a road builder. I knew something was missing, and thanks to your video, I know what it is. Thank you very much. The game now has a new lease on life for me.
@yoongzy2 жыл бұрын
Car centric is bad obviously, it took away the life all we used to have on the road in the middle of the city (my mother told me that, I don't have the chance to enjoy that), which is decades ago and is hard to revert back, that's why superblocks are formed in Barcelona. This is a game that can make us think about the problem that car traffic could make, without a good public transport network the city is almost dying because of the jam it cause. It makes us realize the true solution for transportation and the perfect way to lay it out, even Stockholm's city planners used it to plan a whole new district, I'm not sure how it ends lol. The point is this game is actually encouraging us to discover the main cause of traffic issues and the possible solution to implement, either it's planning for a better road layout or having the best public transport network it doesn't matter. I believe those who fall in love with this game can actually relate almost every aspect in your own city that we never care much about before. The first time I felt about this is when I was having a holiday trip with my family my mom was amazed and confused when I named every highway interchanges we crossed over, she don't understand what I was saying. This game makes me understand more about the city I've been living in since I was born and makes me notices the weakest part of the whole layout of my city. It makes me love and appreciate more about the place I called home. Sometimes people may thought that video games don't benefit the society except for entertainment, but some genre of video games like this for example actually educate us more about the things we might can relate that the school doesn't even touch. Some video games can actually bring people together and inspire each other, let us learn more about other interesting stuff and make the world a much creative space to live in. This game made me love to write and express, that's why I'm posting guides on Steam all related to this game, this game makes me me. I believe no one of us actually know about all the road systems from lane mathematics to asymmetric roads until we know about this game and discovered its amazing content creators. To all those people out there, try this game first before complaining about how bad it or its content creators are. "Don't judge a book by its cover", everyone heard about this. “古传带来发展,创新带来进步” "Old natures bring development, innovations bring progress"
@artinius5652 жыл бұрын
I like how this game goes from: Hahaha funny simcity simulator to : Discussing cityplanning as a whole and debating all of alternatives for city worldwide I discover your channel while ago and you helped me so much just because I wanted to make initially a realistic functional farm and crop system and then I learned about lane mathematics and road hierarchy
@dalearends42162 жыл бұрын
I live in one of the fastest growing mixed-use areas of San Diego, CA. The light rail system to this area was opened just over 4 months ago so it is still too soon to see what effect it has on the traffic on the highway the light rail parallels. In the game, I tend to make use of trams and metro (once they get unlocked and I have the money to build them) and they have a marked effect on the traffic. The trick is to understand the hierarchy and needed interconnections of the different systems. I think that part of the fun of the game is figuring out how to "defeat" the traffic AI as the population grows.
@r0bz0rly2 жыл бұрын
as a fan of yours from the last 6 months or so, I'm sad I hadn't come across this sooner! but I'm so glad to see people defend the idea of a city that is designed around cars. transit, walkability, etc are fantastic and should be considered in any city design, but the sheer hatred for cars has gotten way out of control and people don't seem to want to understand WHY some cities are car centric. they just choose to believe that "oh, DOT is incompetent, they need to watch notjustbikes and learn how to design a city LOL!" I know that wasn't your key point, but it's a big bugbear of mine. but more to your point, I do agree; I think one of the biggest draws of this game is the traffic optimisation. it's fun to experiment to see how you can make car traffic flow better using the tools at your disposal. yes, taking cars off the road is a big improvement, but some cities in real life don't allow for that due to the geography, so seeing how we can make life better for a car-centric society has its own merit! thank you for this measured response to the militant anti-car crowd
@khyao71682 жыл бұрын
Man, I feel you a lot. This is also an eye opener. I admired how you build everything in your videos. City Planner Plays introduced me to you, and that says a lot about your skills and passion. Keep up the good work man.
@RoccondilRinon2 жыл бұрын
Anyone who thinks roundabouts are good for cyclists has never tried to cycle through them in traffic, as I did on my (pre-COVID) commute.
@TheTuxani2 жыл бұрын
Agreed! Apart from the fear of cars overlooking you before they turn , there's also the simultaneous braking+signalling+sharp turn that's almost impossible
@CJLloyd2 жыл бұрын
Absolutely. I've biked roundabouts in Asian countries with horrid driving culture. I am an experienced cyclist and not afraid of traffic, even with bad drivers around. Those roundabouts definitely made me appreciate why less experienced cyclists don't like biking in traffic. And how different the outcome would have been if I couldn't afford a better than average bike with sharp shifting and excellent brakes.
@pfeilspitze2 жыл бұрын
It's really quite easy to have people use primarily transit in this game, though. Because, as you mentioned, the cims will happily walk 1km or more. So if you just want to optimize the game, a grid of metro is really all you need, with decent walkability to and from those stations. (And of course some pedestrian overpasses to keep truck routes from interfering.)
@crazytaco642 жыл бұрын
Hello from a fellow NoVa resident! It was really cool to hear your thoughts on our local city building issues. Despite being in one of the few lucky US cities with a metro system, I am often frustrated by the lack of focus on transit integration or adding transit options, specifically regarding the massive updating of I-66 with no metro expansion. Love your videos- keep them coming!
@alohatigers11992 жыл бұрын
I mean, it’s going to be very different to transport things when you carry your luggage. Especially when renting a car is more expensive than actually buying a car. You see the problem? Why rent a car or call an Uber when it’s cheaper in the long run to own a car? Also, you can’t rely on public transportation, specifically if the routes doesn’t take you to your destination. Also, the set times. Depending on your schedule and the bus schedule or train schedule... if it’s conflicting with each other, you’re better off with a car so you can drive on your own time. That is the ultimate freedom of owning a car. And that’s ok.
@DizzleEdits2 жыл бұрын
Can't argue with that, that's why it's up to governments to correctly implement transit options. It's totally possible to have transit options that are cheaper and quicker to take than your car. But as you say: if those options aren't available it's completely understandable if you take your car :)
@DSamuri2 жыл бұрын
Cargo bikes
@grace28362 жыл бұрын
to be fair if public transport had the same investment that roads did you likely could have reliable, frequent public transport with wide and direct enough coverage to have similar freedom to cars, at least within cities. Your comparing millions of killiometers of road infrastructure to tens of thousands of killiometers of passanger train and tram infrastructure.
@ahkotl82692 жыл бұрын
If you don't need a car multiple times per week, owning a car will definitely be more expensive than renting one or even calling an Uber. Just (mandatory) car insurance costs more than €50 per month. If you don't use your car at least twice per month, you're better off renting a car for a day for €40. I may need a car once a month at most, as all of my movement is done by bike or on foot (+ train and bus when going out of town, which is still cheaper than paying for gas). Grocery stores are only 10min by foot. To me it makes no sense to own a car as it would cost a decent amount of money on a regular basis for something which I don't use.
@OntarioTrafficMan2 жыл бұрын
Transit only limits the places and times you can travel if it sucks. When I lived in Toronto, I never looked at a bus or tram schedule. They don't even publish a schedule for the subway. You just go to the stop/station and you'll get picked up within a few minutes. I have also never rented a car in my life - my luggage has wheels and is no problem in a modern wheelchair-accessible transit system. That said I agree with your overall point that there are some trips where cars are inherently preferable, and that's okay. It would be ridiculous to try and eliminate car use, the point is rather to capture the car trips where people would be happier in another mode, if that mode were improved.
@Secretlyalittleworm2 жыл бұрын
As one of those car bad people, this video is spot on- I really love your content, and this video eloquently describes allot of thoughts I’ve been stuck on, especially within the community- kudos my friend
@crystaldragon1412 жыл бұрын
I'm from Utah and ironically we have one of the highest rated transit systems in the United States. That said so much of Utah is spread out that transit just doesn't make sense for a large percentage of people. I'm always in favor of a balanced approach. Thanks for sharing your opinion!
@CrabbyGameGuy2 жыл бұрын
Having moved from New York City to a small coastal town in South Alabama about 5 years ago, I found that the first thing I missed about New York was Mass Transit and walkability. So I've found that many of my builds use heavy amounts of mass transit, particularly metro, commuter trains, busses, bike paths and walking paths. I wish I had a better handle on how to design these mass transit systems so they would be more efficiently designed in my cities. That being said, because the game does, indeed rely heavily on roads and motor vehicles (particularly involving the delivery of goods and services), that your interchange and intersection tutorials have been an invaluable addition to my repertoire. You are one of my favorite CS KZbinrs and you certainly do a great job at explaining not just how, but why you do what you do. You've increased my enjoyment while playing the game and I would think that would be a goal for all content creators. Thanks.
@YUMBL2 жыл бұрын
Much appreciated :)
@kingkiellnickiell80342 жыл бұрын
wow, feels weird to be early. also I agree, at its basics its a factory game with happiness and growth, while still being focused on city growth. Its a game that will never truly die out
@Secretlyalittleworm2 жыл бұрын
Cities really is the best gateway drug into urbanism
@DerekToro2 жыл бұрын
Your channel is my favorite Cities Skylines channel because I have always been fascinated by roads and traffic and you by far have the best knowledge of roads and how they work.
@P4DDYW4CK2 жыл бұрын
Hey there! I’m an avid watcher of the ‘Armchair Urbanist Tube’ sect. I actually was drawn to your videos because I think some interchanges you’ve made are novel and could make median-straddling public transit work really well. I also think improving traffic flow could allow for reducing roadway space, a sorta rebuke of induced-demand. I particularly like your Left-Turn Overpass video because I thought it’d make the Colfax Ave-Colorado Blvd interchange here in CO sooooo much better. I could definitely see trams going through that type of interchange as well. Anyway, there are extremists and then there are those who can appreciate a balance when it comes to transit. I think a balanced transit mindset is still major progress in such a car-centric world.
@pebrain212 жыл бұрын
Dude, I lived in NOVA (Sterling) for 15 years. Traffic is a nightmare and it will always be a nightmare...too many people, too little road, and poorly designed public transit (as you said). I now live on the Eastern Shore of Maryland although there's far less traffic which I love, it's very rural and there is NO public transit, everything is so spread out, it wouldn't make sense. I love your videos, because I try to build what I know...car centric cities. I've also spoken to my screen many times because people try to eliminate all traffic lights as well. I've never seen a city without ANY traffic lights. Keep doing what you are doing. I've learned a lot from you.
@anindrapratama2 жыл бұрын
I grew up in Jakarta, as a kid i was baffled why Jakarta haven't built any rapid transit yet. This thought appeared after many holidays to Singapore. I am a railfan most of my life and only gained interest on urban planning after Cities Skylines (and some simcity ds). Thankfully after 2016 Jakarta is heading to a better direction although there's still many work to do
@SuperVitality2 жыл бұрын
I honestly wasn't a big fan of the traffic system in Cities Skylines, despite my many efforts to just play the game and build whatever. However the history of the game developers and how the game functions, everything makes more sense. I greatly appreciate your input and your perception on this game as a whole. For the most part I really enjoy your content for it's format and relaxing experience. I hope to take what you say in your videos and apply it to my Cities Skyline experience.
@SEGY2 жыл бұрын
I knew you grew up in NH from your New England series, but hearing you lived in NoVA now made a lot of things make sense :P I grew up in the DMV, used to live in NoVA myself. As a kid I never really noticed how car-centric things were. I lived fairly close to the metro and lived within walking distance to good schools and community centers and lots of other cool things. It wasn't until I moved to southern Maryland and came of driving age that I really noticed how much we relied on having a car. Like where I live now there are basically no options for public transportation, just small ineffectual shuttle buses. But Cities Skylines (and your videos) I think has been a really good educator on how city planning and infrastructure can make a big difference. It's what made me start to notice things in the real world and gave me the experience and terms to talk about it. I feel like having the traffic simulator and car-centricity really highlights the changes you make when you start adding walkability, bikability, and public transit. I think I've watched some of those same videos about "stroads" and the bureaucracy simulator proposals and it feels like a lot of them are kinda missing the point of what makes it a good game, or even potentially a learning tool. It's also a lot cheaper/easier/more fun to implement changes in a game than to single-handedly implement societal changes or urban planning policy lol
@eddiecoffin53512 жыл бұрын
Man I love your road/traffic vids. Please don’t stop
@AnderTheJackalope2 жыл бұрын
I'm a big fan of urban planning youtube, but I got into that BECAUSE of cities skylines. I really like your interchange videos because they work well in the game, and it's cool to learn about interchanges that are uncommon in NA. It's stupid that you've been getting hate from people who cant separate the game from real life. You keep making what you want, in my opinion you're one of the best cities skylines youtubers out there. The tone of your videos is always relaxing and comfortable, just like the game.
@YUMBL2 жыл бұрын
I appreciate it :)
@JelliThePilot2 жыл бұрын
i know its 10 months late but GREAT video. everyone who got a Not Just Bikes recommendation in the last year or two is basically forgetting that Skylines came out during a time where most people werent getting educated on the way our places are built. its crazy to call out a Skylines player for car centricity when the reality is, interchanges and cars are a thing in real life. few people have multiple positions that they take, and just see car centricity and go insane. i think im the only urbanist who plays racing games in addition to stuff like this LMFAO
@Teagles2162 жыл бұрын
I'll be honest after getting on the anti car-centric binge from NotJustBikes, I do cringe every time I watch one of your videos. Not because of you, your videos are fantastic, but because of the realization that the town I live in is car centric and I wish it wasn't. I hope cities skylines two, prioritizes pedestrian and bike traffic simulation first, then you could show us some incredible bike interchanges on your channel!
@YUMBL2 жыл бұрын
I appreciate the thought. I’m usually cringing during his vids, then it goes away 😂
@OntarioTrafficMan2 жыл бұрын
I like his intent, but his level of cynicism became unbearable even as a fellow Canadian->Dutch person myself. I got properly pissed off by his misrepresentation of Ontario's rail system, which indicates either a severe lack of research, or deliberately only presenting obsolete infrastructure which is already being systematically replaced.
@YUMBL2 жыл бұрын
Whatever serves the point being made. Good intentions make great paving materials.
@ZieWeaver2 жыл бұрын
I'm totally with you. I got City Skylines because I wanted to play with roundabouts and trams. I do want to mention though, that as an avid bike commuter, I much prefer roundabouts over the lights and four way stops common here in America. Stopping and starting on a bike is dangerous because it's when you're least stable, and cars like to push you into lanes that doesn't exist. Most of the accidents I've been in have been due to getting caught in the saccade of a left turning vehicle while going straight through an intersection. Roundabouts eliminate basically all these problems. Your welcome to your opinion, I just wanted to share mine ^^; I certainly agree that once a roundabout has more than one lane, I'm not taking my bike anywhere near it.
@atefxf2 жыл бұрын
Great choice of words mate!
@spectex3042 жыл бұрын
*after this video yumbl proceed to make a pedestrian interchange* Jk :p anyway your POV is on point.
@grahamturner26402 жыл бұрын
I wonder how roundabouts are purely car-centric, when the Dutch are able to integrate other modes of traffic into them (trams, bikes, pedestrians).
@YUMBL2 жыл бұрын
You dont think those designs would change if cars were removed?
@cryoshakespeare44652 жыл бұрын
I'm pretty sure I fall in the cohort of the typically silent majority who totally get this perspective, and I enjoy your videos for what they are: really cool, aesthetically and mechanically interesting solutions to a game, which also have some significant real world parallels and things to learn from. Can imagine one aspect of drawing a bigger audience is getting a larger share of people who are just wanting to huff about something and find someone to blame.
@pascalsteiner99262 жыл бұрын
I am from Switzerland and we are known for good public transportation. In comparison to other countries we have very little parking in the cities and in recent years we have removed more and more of them and made the remaining parking expensive. And that's what I am totally annoyed of... I wish we would have a more driver friendly society. I better not start to talk about the gas prices, taxes and regulations :/ Is there someone who can relate with me?
@projectjster2 жыл бұрын
Hell I even took some tips from Biffa and use my Parks DLC to squeeze every dime I can put of my sims, such as isolating my commercial district and putting a park with 15 entrances between that and my residential district to really make them pay to walk to work and back home. It’s what makes the game fun. Also I dont mind bulldozing a section of town to apply bigger roads to ease traffic though I’ve done that less and less since I watched your video on road hierarchy. I already knew the concept but never really applied it until recently due to me not wanting to go back and spend more time “fixing” traffic issues.
@saber11052 жыл бұрын
I think it's great that people are interested in city planning. It's not an excuse to drag on someone making cool things in a game though. Love your stuff. So many people have been pounding the drum about making cities more people-centric, not car-centered. And when a game is car centric perhaps it feels like nothing is getting through. But like you say this is a game, and it's not a simulation of the very real challenges being faced, and the hurdles in place to overcome them, and the creative solutions that are springing up. Have hope!
@ManuelMerzinger2 жыл бұрын
The only real issue regarding car centricity in CS as a european is that I wish there were options to express more of the carless aspects of cities. For example Until Parks DLC it urked me that I had to place parks next to roads, it always felt out of place, because that's not how I experience them here. Things like urban city centers, town squares or pedestrian zones, would honestly round out the game for me a lot. Other than that I don't mind that the game is car centric, as the modern world is reliant on roads and transportations, and as you rightfully said, the management aspect is the real deal, and it shows and explains a lot of real life issues in cities. Keep going I really enjoy your insight and content. Have a nice day!
@HilcoKlinkert2 жыл бұрын
"We're all traffic together". That sums it up nicely ☺️
@davidroddini15122 жыл бұрын
I love the highway interchange he started with. It is basically a parclo but the addition of roundabouts where the cloverleaves join the arterial. So it is a fairly free flowing service interchange. 👍🏻
@Narafail2 жыл бұрын
i like your attitude and can relate to your point of view. playing the game made me more aware to my region. moreover can identify and appreciate what is built around me. all in all, i like your content and your channel is great! keep up the good work
@shealupkes2 жыл бұрын
I've been seeing your designs for the most part as purposed for places where walking isn't viable, as well as minimizing the amount of space cars take up while also helping them flow as well as possible
@eXcalibre_2 жыл бұрын
Yes, let me just load all of my shopping onto the back of my bike or should I just push the shopping cart all the way home?
@ruffcommando70622 жыл бұрын
how do you make that dirt around the side of the highway a different color?
@YUMBL2 жыл бұрын
Its part of the “map theme”.
@serguei96652 жыл бұрын
A quick note from France, to thank you for the quality of your tutorials. My English is not good enough for me to understand all the words, but the video part helps to fill in the gaps. I have not found the equivalent in French in terms of clarity, competence and user-friendliness. I am a newcomer to Cities Skylines and your tutorials are very valuable to me. Thank you for your work!
@YUMBL2 жыл бұрын
I’m glad to help! Thank you for watching.
@yojojo30002 жыл бұрын
I feel like the best solution, just like giving people options to use pedestrian and biking paths, is to just give people options all around. Have specific modes dedicated to specific things such as “bureaucracy management” where your main focus is managing policies, making tough decisions, etc. in a self-growing city, “City building management” where your main focus is properly zoning a slowly-expanding city, and other mode ideas. This would keep the challenging aspect of the game while also making it more diverse and open-minded, instead of forcing everyone to play in a specific way. And for the more-advanced people, you could create a new city that has multiple modes on at once, forcing you to multitask not just, say, roads and pedestrians, but also, say, bureaucracy management, city building management, etc. all at once, making for a very tough yet interestingly-possible and interactive experience, made possible with the standalone modes serving as a tutorial of what to expect from a specific combination of modes. Heck, you could even give people the option to set a difficulty level for each mode in their city. Traffic too much of a pain? Lower the difficulty SPECIFICALLY for traffic so that you don’t have to worry about it too much. Hate bureaucracy management? Lower the difficulty SPECIFICALLY for bureaucracy management so you don’t have to worry about it. Do you feel like your city is ready to handle tough traffic conditions? Bump the traffic difficulty up. Honestly, everything is better when the player gets more of a choice in what he wants to do and more ways to take out the subjectively less-fun parts of the game. It’s like modding, but without the painful part of going out of your way to get them and getting them to work; it’s just built right into the game. Now I know that that’s a TON to ask for, but at that point you could appoint specific people to hard-focus on specific gamemodes that they specialize in, working somewhat independently of each other (but with enough communication to make adding mixtures of these modes possible). It’s possible, but tough. But it also has the chance of making this game one of the greatest games out there.
@EzyPup2 жыл бұрын
plzas and promonades expansion: Im about to end this mans whole carer
@YUMBL2 жыл бұрын
Until they release a map that isn’t a six lane highway pointed at a starting square my career is quite secure. I honestly hope they do.
@m4db4t2 жыл бұрын
I like both of you channels. The channels you mentioned definately got a valid point and i'm agreeing on most of it. I personally like cars, but they are not very practical in most cases. At least when there is transit. When you live in the outback/some other low populated area, you need it. But you are doing is playing a game, it has it's mechanics. And it's the way you want to play and i never would question that. It's 'just' a game. I also like the interchanges and the other stuff you do. Just keep it up
@teejaythomas342 жыл бұрын
Fellow Northern VA here as well! And I totally agree about the Metro instead of the Highway project! I enjoy all your videos and grateful for them, they have been very informational and educational on playing this amazing game!
@tunneller2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for this video! You really found a great way to express a difficult and nuance dynamics going on in our little City building community
@Diana-le7oh2 жыл бұрын
I agree with you about the traffic simulator being what makes the game super successful. I know even in cities i build for pure aesthetics, I still consider "winning" the game having as high of a traffic % as I can and one of my favorite parts of the game is once a city is built up enough, going back and solving traffic puzzles.
@smoadia852 жыл бұрын
Everybody ask yumbl how's the traffic, but nobody ask how's yumbl.
@YUMBL2 жыл бұрын
🤣
@westerb2 жыл бұрын
Don't forget. There is so much room for roads in the US. That is what stood out to me when I visited the US. Man... there is so much space.
@thegoondockswarcouncil95432 жыл бұрын
What often seems to be missing in conversations about cars vs transit is a recognition that BOTH have pros and cons, both can be good or bad depending on the circumstances. Traffic and pollution are cons for cars. But convenience, speed, and freedom (to go anywhere at any time) are pros of cars. These pros should not be dismissed out of hand. Maybe the cons outweigh the pros in some cases, particularly in dense urban areas, but not in all cases. Transit has benefits of reducing congestion, less pollution, no need to buy a car, etc. But transit also has cons-it is inconvenient (only designated stops at intermittent times, you are packed in tight with strangers in an unpleasant climate, etc.), it is often slower (not always, but often), it doesn’t allow you to easily transport bulky items or other goods, etc. There are more pros/cons that could be listed for each, but my point is not to hash all that out in a single comment. My point is simply that both have pros and cons. Where I live, transit would be a terrible idea, and I am glad I have autos so I can go where I want whenever I want. But I have also lived and worked in city centers where the transit was a welcome alternative. Either can be good or bad, depends on the context.
@pubdigitalix2 жыл бұрын
I find your channel incredible enjoyable and entertaining. Only Cities Skyline channel not drive by trending news. People always wan to critic. Judging by your public numbers and channel age i find you are making it very good. Cheers.
@BIGralph012 жыл бұрын
I feel your pain brother! I-66 is the main reason I left NOVA. That orange line needs to be extended to Haymarket!
@YUMBL2 жыл бұрын
Precisely!
@Excalibaard2 жыл бұрын
I like watching for the gameplay/build tricks and calming voice. Never realised people are blaming you for the world's traffic problems 🙄 hope you'll be able to just focus on making cool stuff again. I would like to see you expand interchanges/roundabouts with dedicated bus/bike lanes in the future, but only if you feel like that's something you'd enjoy! I know there are some roundabouts nearby that allows buses to go through, with a bus stop in the middle of the roundabout for example.
@GaryFerrao2 жыл бұрын
11:05 Everyone's wondering "why am i stuck in traffic?" But it's harder to say "why am i traffic? i am traffic." best quote lol
@GaryFerrao2 жыл бұрын
it's not just traffic of cars. it's people. even the more metros you build, the more houses pop up in the area. the romans did it best. each city just a square mile. i try build my cities in CS the same way. unfortunately, i feel the game is not designed to be that.
@TriegaDN2 жыл бұрын
Cities Skylines is what got me into those "cars are bad" youtube channels. The game simply got me hooked on learning about urban planning. I don't see cars as an ultimate evil, but just that access to public transit, pedestrians and cycling infrastructure in urban communities is very important for the health and sustainability of cities. I am happy for cars being an option for people to get around in many areas where it makes sense, especially in rural communities. I started out building very car-centric cities in the game, studying the types of interchanges and road designs around here in Metro Detroit I encounter on a daily basis, as someone who commutes by car. It's a lot of fun, and it's also fun to dive deeper and build cities that very well accommodate for other modes. It has been an amazing 7 years, exploring and learning many aspects of what goes into how cities are designed over history, traffic engineering, and how to make cities more sustainable and enjoyable. Cities Skylines has been the gateway drug for me into these. Possibly even the old sim city games, as wanting to go back to that is what got me interested in cities skylines and what got me here.
@KubicaMr2 жыл бұрын
Every building has to be connected to road, even in europe every builiding can be accessed by motor vehicle - so an ambulance, fire truck, dump truck has to access somehow.
@Chewbacca552 жыл бұрын
The reason I like to watch you is that I like to see smart solutions to complicated problems. That is all that the traffic manangement in CS is. It is very difficult but fun to solve traffic problems that does not mean that one likes cars or traffic. Its like another "face" to something like Sudoku . A different kind of challange.
@YUMBL2 жыл бұрын
Agreed. Its a mental exercise.
@ThatChuckGuy2 жыл бұрын
I'd argue that round-a-bouts aren't even good for cars, at least the way they're done here in the states. I've encountered a few in my travels to Germany, and those were really eye-opening in terms of what round-a-bouts could be. Here, we cram them into far too small spaces with far too much traffic volume, especially high semi volume areas (it's a 3 lane round-a-bout - unless there's a semi...). They're great in some circumstances, but definitely not all. I'm convinced city planners in the USA use them to convince the public they're saving money by not having traffic lights.
@hamingnu66102 жыл бұрын
I agree. A good Urban Planner looks at all their options, and makes sure they use the option that's most effective at either making a livable area, or transporting people (Some people may disagree, this is just my perspective). A lot of people started liking roundabouts because of a few famous video essay-style stuff that came out a few years. I thought "Hmmm. Yeah, North America doesn't have a lot of roundabouts in places where they'd be appropriate" - but then a lot more people (most from America who were enraged at the fact that they didn't have enough roundabouts) started going crazy and asking for roundabouts, absolutely everywhere. Even in small city streets. This is not the way to do it, and that's why I really only try to watch Urban Planning-related videos that take special discretion about this stuff. To people who feel like traffic flow could be improved in small city streets, the first solution there is usually to make sure they're slow and narrow, and let small-scale traffic (pedestrians, etc...) be prioritized [so there are less cars, not just more that are given even more space in this particular town, where cities are supposed to be guests, because density should very much encourage walkability]. Not, just plopping a roundabout.
@grneyes2122 жыл бұрын
I grew up in the midwest, in a small town in Illinois, 10 minutes from the Wisconsin border. It's the end of a commuter line. They have done nothing but expand, expand, expand the parking. SOOO many people take the trains to Chicago. My hometown is about an hour or so north of Chicago. We aren't even the most northern town with a commuter line. Kenosha, WI has a commuter line that goes into Chicago. Now I live in PA, about an hour southwest of Philly. The closest commuter line to me is either 30 minutes south in Wilmington, DE or 30 north in Marcus Hook. It would take me 30 minutes to get to the train, 60 minutes ON the train, then a bus ride to get to my job. While driving is horrible and more expensive, it's less time consuming. If they could extend the line out so many people would benefit. But they don't. And they can't widen 95 because it's surrounded by towns. Why does Chicago have better commuter lines than Philly? Why haven't they upgraded or extended lines for the people who are moving out of Philly and the surrounding areas? It's so frustrating.
@Ilikefire27932 жыл бұрын
@YUMBLtv Everything that could be considered as "car centric" design as part of the game is mostly like near 90% understandable logically and expected as part of the urban planning landscape. Problem though is that 1. you can only start any city via Freeway connection and not via like say airfield connection or a ship yard /dock area or via even the far more realistic one, Via rail connection. 2. you're weirdly given freeways to build pretty early on as the city gets bigger ironically. IRL most freeway projects tend to exist or be generally build in areas in which the urban or multiple larger urban areas within a county that generally tend to have populations above like 200,000 - 300,000 usually. (which tends to be why they always see to have very bad traffic on them lol) and also for some reason the freeways themself are pretty cheep to build and maintain or even expand at any time for some reason. Though honestly the part about cities skylines "car centric-ness" that's actually the most unrealistic and worst aspect of it is generally the whole industries dlc way it ships cargo from each "facility" to the next. Just let me be able to build direct cargo shunting rail yard connections or some literal pipelines available to be used to connect all of theses smaller place-able industrial buildings everywhere. there's not a singular agricultural area on earth IRL that has that much tractor cargo traffic and it just looks so stupid as a result. (though the tractor thing might just be cause they tend to use tractor pulled road trains of like 3 or 4 short tractor trailers and also most of the farm field lot sizes tend to start at like the 1/8th square km usually IRL)
@GenGariczek2 жыл бұрын
I go everywhere by public transport, I don't even own a car. I love making and detailing intersections and roads in the game. These things are just totally unrelated.
@gregburgin70982 жыл бұрын
It is weird that even using the DLC, some forms of transit predated cars. Yet, we still have to wait a long time for them.