Unboxing the hidden politics of SimCity

The SimCity series has achieved the universal success few games do, with a veneer of realism that draws gaming and non-gaming fans alike. But just what is SimCity's model based on? And what politics are hidden inside the black box driving the simulation?
0:00 SimCity: The educational game with a hidden ideology
0:19 Inside the black box
5:20 SimCity and politics
6:16 REGRETTABLY, RUDY GUILIANI
6:57 SimCity in the classroom
8:29 MAGNASANTI
10:00 City algorithms and impact
Sourced Articles:
Model Metropolis by Kevin T. Baker
logicmag.io/play/model-metrop...
Will Wright’s City in a Box by Jimmy Maher
www.filfre.net/2016/06/simcit...
When SimCity got serious by Phil Salvador
obscuritory.com/sim/when-simc...
Press Alt F4 to end homelessness by Rebecca Burns
inthesetimes.com/article/pres...
The Real Mayors of SimCity by Jason Koebler
www.vice.com/en/article/ezv7w...
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#SimCity #CitiesSkylines #CityPlanning

[@polygon]

This was a *dense* subject for a video, so if you'd like to know more, check out the companion article on Polygon.com! www.polygon.com/videos/2021/4/1/22352583/simcity-hidden-politics-ideology-urban-dynamics

[@polygon]

Also for another healthy dose of existential dread from Clayton: kzbin.info/www/bejne/r2fRlnehlJmLeNU

[@tacomonkey222]

At least your politics is clear for all to see We get it orange man bad, lassie-fair bad government intervention good

[@hairohukosu433]

@@tacomonkey222 yes.

[@Lawjistik]

Hey look two homeless from the video got outta their cage.

[@davidbaker9412]

Don't even mention you don't explain why Forrester was trying to stop the government projects..... Because after serious analysis he concluded government policy (e.g. housing projects) were doing more harm than good. He was trying to stop a cycle of poverty..... But its probably too complicated for you since it's literally 3-4 years of college calculous to understand what he was doing.....

[@petersmythe6462]

There is a big distinction between "How do I get rid of homelessness" and "How do I get rid of homeless people."

[@Ollebolle112]

@@aturchomicz821 damn do I hope you're ironic

[@Ohyehah]

@@aturchomicz821 Nuance with a capital N? Maybe. A person can only understand nuance, sarcasm, etc. if they have reasons to expect the text they're presented should be interpreted in a different way to the superficial one. There are lots of people expressing themselves in the way you did who really mean that all homeless people are lazy, with the slight exception being your "tsk tsk". I don't know you at all, I have no clue as to your intentions. We're increasingly interacting across borders and cultures. While the algorithms directing us in weird ways are certainly part of the issues we have with communication on the internet, I think a large part of it is also the need for us to adapt.

[@solarprogeny6736]

@@aturchomicz821 sAdGe

[@aturchomicz821]

@@solarprogeny6736 FeelsBadMan

[@SuaNam08]

Irl, most people’s thought is “I want the homeless removed from my sight.” The police, prison, and judicial system are the tools we’re given to respond to the issue. It would be in local and national security interest to maximize the number of content and prosperous citizens. Crime, social unrest, and desperation are disastrous for stability. Again, the only response to this that ever seems to happen is increased police force, and reduced non-commercial public spaces. Culturally, the homeless anger and irritate us for their failure to acquire something as essential as housing. That irritation is usually mixed with disdain for minorities, the mentally ill, or those suffering with drug addiction. They’re an eyesore, and the police are there to remove them from our line of sight. Providing housing is cheaper than prison, but the idea of being governmentally compelled to help others in that way, especially when most of us are struggling as well, is too much to bear for many. Society will agree to pay to punish, but paying to help, even if it’s cheaper and better in the long run, will always be “too much”. We’re scared because most of us are actually not far from being homeless ourselves.

[@CityBeautiful]

Thanks for having me! This video is great!

[@salemite]

Oh man seeing ya'll together, what a cross over!

[@ElkiLG]

The discussion around homelessness in Sim City reminds me of how the systems and rules in Crusader Kings drive you towards eugenics, inbreeding and other dubious behaviours. It's super weird but they do make you behave like city planners/medieval royalty. I find that oddly fascinating.

[@AbsolXGuardian]

CK is interesting because of how it rewards inbreeding outside of title consolidation (the irl benifit). Because the benefits of stacking quick to turn it into genius is greater than the inbred trait. Of course, most of the behaviors Paradox games encourage are just because the win conditions are designed around what made historical states powerful. There's no moralitly meter, but the fandom does have a problem with people who don't go "alright time to be evil" when they boot up the game. Although an interesting caveat is that Victoria and CK2 makes antisemitic policies the strategically bad choice except for specific situations

[@EmissaryofWind]

I was playing Civilization recently and it made me think about the way "victory" is framed in that game. You can be at war with the entire world, have half of your cities levelled by asteroids or sunk into the sea, but as soon as you hit a milestone you're now the best culture in the game, even though your empire would otherwise collapse within a few years. And it's pretty much the same with any other strategy/management game, you're encouraged to grow and grow until you hit a goal, you've "won", and all the people you're leading just cease to exist, instead of something more accurate to our real lives where you would want to keep your civilization in a stable state so it can continue on after you yourself shuffle off this mortal coil. I think it would be way more interesting and different to have a management game focused on sustainability instead of unending growth.

[@Vi-zf5zq]

@@EmissaryofWind it certainly would be, but it is fairly accurate to life, no? our leaders have expressed time and time again that unending growth IS their main goal. most of us live mediocre or downright miserable lives - if you take the world at large the vast majority of people are absolutely suffering. but leaders consider their nations prosperous whenever the stock market is doing well. they see a big number and like a high score it says, well, perhaps the majority of people in this nation live in poverty, but at least the shareholders are doing well!

[@CorvusCoraxification]

Me, always playing CK with healthy gene pools, 100% republican (county or higher) vassals, and fully empowered councils because I love stable prosperity: 👁️👄👁️

[@MoviMakr]

There's always deporting minorities to the colonies and exterminating natives in EU4...then getting steamrolled by coalition for all that bad karma.

[@tgirl_jocy]

This is the spookiest Polygon video since Pat talked about dark souls at us for half an hour

[@jebnordost7487]

What about the Defcon video?

[@redpepper74]

@@jebnordost7487 this, the defcon video, and the overboard series are the only videos I’ve watched on this channel so far, so I feel like my perception is a bit skewed lol

[@edwardnygma8533]

What is the DS video with Pat?

[@Spo8]

@@edwardnygma8533 It's called "Let's talk about Dark Souls one last time wait where are you going"

[@leonardofranzinribeiro4220]

@@jebnordost7487 The defcon vídeo was Far darker

[@AdrianRojasF]

Making all the kids in the class cry because they thought you were making an April Fool's joke

[@Ed-fr7mw]

is this.. not an april fools joke?.. i havent watched it yet i just thought it was

[@AdrianRojasF]

@@Ed-fr7mw I thought too but the smile on my face slowly went away as I started to realize this was way too real.

[@Beateau]

Maybe that's the joke? We were all expecting one and the pranked us by not pranking us? Meta-pranking?

[@AdrianRojasF]

@@Beateau Maybe the joke was friends we made along the way.

[@gggg-hq4td]

@@AdrianRojasF yeah, your friendships sure are a joke

[@elevenVR]

All the hosts are good, but Clayton's deep dives have to be the best thing on polygon.

[@CodfishJoe]

Agreed! He might not be the best at presentation, but his compositions are outstanding

[@Garathon]

But dbg is hell on earth, and the ratings show

[@matt_mota]

@@Garathon He left polygon tho

[@bekkaanneee]

i totally read that as "Clayton's deep voice" and was like "yeah his deep voice is the best thing on polygon"

[@Garathon]

@@matt_mota sadness

[@ListerTunes]

Another thought: The algorithms at the heart of this sim have the same problem that the algorithms that run modern social media have: There's no consideration for qualitative effects (happiness, excitement, learning, growth), only quantitative effects (money, engagement, interaction). Ultimately the idea is that more is always better and there's never enough, and that basic assumption creates some really degenerate problems and inhumane decisions in areas that affect millions of lives. Shouting into the void here, but this is important. This sort of thinking separates Polygon from outlets that just review games. Thanks.

[@thepantweaver]

That’s Capitalism!

[@Corbomite_Meatballs]

It's not just a zero-sum game (you have, I don't...I want, I take, you lose), but lessons in scarcity (there's never enough of X to satisfy everyone) and theoretical "infinite" growth (you can always get more [likes] if you just do A, B, and or C).

[@Zorro9129]

@@thepantweaver No, that's social planning. It's impossible for social planners to account for people's qualitative desires. There's no better decision-maker for your life than yourself.

[@postmorton2493]

@@Zorro9129 Why is it impossible? They're not robots. Sure, it's trickier, but in the long run it pays off if your council houses are actually nice to live in, you have nice parks, etc.

[@Zorro9129]

@@postmorton2493 Because council houses too often turn into rotten boroughs time and time again. Bureaucracy cannot meet people's needs to anywhere the extent that people deciding for themselves can. Attempting so inevitably requires a surveillance state where all citizens are depersonalized to the point they may as well be robots. Look at the decline of London since 1945.

[@Leron...]

More Patrick reading things in a monotone voice, less existential crises please. (but in all seriousness, it was super edifying and eye-opening thank you for your hard work)

[@aimelle3]

If you haven't seen Pat's "Crash Bandicoot's Top 5 Games (and Top 50 crimes)" video, do check it out. It's nearly 5 minutes of him talking in that voice. I always go back and watch it whenever Pat brings out that voice and today's no different.

[@rachelrachel9152]

Yes that totally killed me lol

[@debbiebishop86]

Please never let Clayton go..... He's too good for this world

[@polygon]

I would fight Death himself for Clayton - Simone

[@dafire9634]

You just remembered me that BDG is no longer working at polygon

[@revsdoeschem]

@@polygon knowing you, Simone, you will eventually

[@randomnpc7773]

@@revsdoeschem Simone has fought death and become god.

[@ellathompson6052]

@@polygon but would you fight Tara?

[@Hammerheadcruiser]

Reminds me of the game Stellaris. Years and many updates back, population units would spawn with certain ideologies. Which ideology they spawn with was reliant on your government type and what ideology the other units around them had. But roughly 10% of the time they'd pick something at random. Now, when you took over a new planet with it's own population, generally through conquest, the population almost always had ideologies that didn't mesh well with yours and would often cause rebellions. The most reliable way to fix that was to find the pop unit with the ideology closest to your own or that hated you the least... and kill everyone else. Then you wait for the planet to repopulate again find the least bad ideological pop and kill everyone else again. Repeat till the planet is filled with pops that like you. Now while this was the most efficient way to shift a planet into not hating you, it did cause the slight issue that it horrified the rest of the galaxy and would start many, many wars. Enough wars that you would eventually collapse. Suffice to say, the ideology system for pops changed not long after this was discovered.

[@calebblaha7854]

This is stupid. I've played many hours of stellaris, and that method is more an indictment on you than anything. 1. Conquest is not 100% needed. 2. When you do capture planets, there are many ways to stabilize things 3. There is almost never a good reason to purge pop. Unless you're role-playing Nazis. Of you can't get your pops to fall in line willingly, and have to resort to purging maybe you should consider your methods and values.

[@calebblaha7854]

This is stupid. I've played many hours of stellaris, and that method is more an indictment on you than anything. 1. Conquest is not 100% needed. 2. When you do capture planets, there are many ways to stabilize things 3. There is almost never a good reason to purge pop. Unless you're role-playing Nazis. Of you can't get your pops to fall in line willingly, and have to resort to purging maybe you should consider your methods and values.

[@calebblaha7854]

This is stupid. I've played many hours of stellaris, and that method is more an indictment on you than anything. 1. Conquest is not 100% needed. 2. When you do capture planets, there are many ways to stabilize things 3. There is almost never a good reason to purge pop. Unless you're role-playing Nazis. Of you can't get your pops to fall in line willingly, and have to resort to purging maybe you should consider your methods and values.

[@calebblaha7854]

This is stupid. I've played many hours of stellaris, and that method is more an indictment on you than anything. 1. Conquest is not 100% needed. 2. When you do capture planets, there are many ways to stabilize things 3. There is almost never a good reason to purge pop. Unless you're role-playing Nazis. Of you can't get your pops to fall in line willingly, and have to resort to purging maybe you should consider your methods and values.

[@calebblaha7854]

This is stupid. I've played many hours of stellaris, and that method is more an indictment on you than anything. 1. Conquest is not 100% needed. 2. When you do capture planets, there are many ways to stabilize things 3. There is almost never a good reason to purge pop. Unless you're role-playing Nazis. Of you can't get your pops to fall in line willingly, and have to resort to purging maybe you should consider your methods and values.

[@zackb.2655]

less than 20 seconds in and i'm giggling about literally making a graphic of a black box closing in around the words "pernicious ideology"

[@neruocomp]

I fell off city sims because they all push you towards perpetual growth and what I found I really wanted was to build a collection of smaller towns. To play with how they interact and use that to inch towards balance and think they were happy

[@AbsolXGuardian]

Yeah. I haven't played SimsCity but it feels like the win conditions are what bakes in a lot of the political assumptions. Increasing the "value"? What about maximumizing happiness? Or economic stability? Or green living? And while games will naturally have to encourage contast something, to get away from capitalism's all expanding growth mindset- it could be based around finding equilibrium and then reacting to random events and developments

[@j.c.5528]

I remember trying to do this too! And it just... never worked. This video helps explain why.

[@Cuix]

I feel this way about most development sims in general. Like, I don't know of ANY farming sim that doesn't demand that you ditch the idyllic, pastoral opening in favor of automation, industry, and a general philosophy of "more is better".

[@NixodCreations]

You should try Workers and Resources: Soviet Republic. It should be obvious from the title alone that it forgoes a lot of the implicit goals in games like SimCity or Cities:Skylines. Your ultimate goal is to keep people alive and happy. Everything else is just in service of that.

[@FabriSlv]

@@AbsolXGuardian I want the next SimCity to model climate change. Less about maximising money, more about maximising happiness and minimising impact.

[@jules-xl7kj]

my stream of consciousness through this whole video was just "clayton you genius" occasionally interrupted by "me beautiful spores" every time will wright's name was mentioned

[@requiembeeblebroxx]

No amount of Will Wright's actual voice will convince me that he doesn't sound like Griffin's parody of him

[@Churumbelita]

This message left intentionally blank.

[@jameseames9289]

Le' me show yew me beau'ifuw spores

[@whitealliance9540]

@@Churumbelita dude brings up how the United states created "white flight" and why black innee city communities fail These people: OmG LiEk da PrettY. How about some of you acknowledge the history this dude tried to drop on you fools? And you people sit back and wonder why blm exists? Its conversations like this comment thread! 1000 comments and all of you overlooked this man talking about white flight? You people are useless.

[@rachelrachel9152]

Yes lol i heard will Wright and i was like "griffin in a british voice saying im will wright" will wright?

[@speakwithanimals]

April Fool's Day: Polygon: *releases genuinely thoughtful and well-researched video on the soft power of capitalism in simulator games*

[@danteloparco6708]

wait... thats illegal!

[@internetperson8982]

@Electro_blob 2 Wrong

[@dadutchboy2]

@Electro_blob 2 you rong i wright

[@dadutchboy2]

@Electro_blob 2 NO U

[@dadutchboy2]

@Electro_blob 2 it doesnt even matter

[@sarahwilliams8438]

Clayton: "They were both huge nerds" Me, gesturing to this video: "What on earth is this then"

[@star2705]

Takes one to know one!

[@ohno417]

This is the video first I watched in which MAGNASANTI is critically evaluated in terms for what it stands for in the frame of SimCity's politics, rather than to point at it to say "hahaha big city whooaaa". Great job, very informative video!

[@Laezar1]

I remember struggling in simcity always having my cities crumble trying to give everyone a soliid education and healthcare system. I also did this one game where I tried very hard to just do what worked, and the city was successful, it was my longest running city, my most successful by far. And yet what I ended up making was basically a nightmarish dystopia, and I was kinda fascinated by how the game was acknowledgiing that everyone was sad and miserable but also nothing bad happened because of it, I just had an advisor freaking out over it while all others were like "brilliant, everything is fine". It really made me realize how fucked up the game was that this was it's idea of success. I'd have much rather lived in any of my crumbled city than in this dystopian hellscape and yet it basically told me that was what the game was all about. I didn't play a lot of sim city after that tbh. But it was interesting to experience.

[@elias.t]

@@Laezar1 That advisor was Reeve Tuesti.

[@doghugs]

Clayton reached into my brain and made the exact video I wanted to see

[@spiralknighter5227]

Clayton with another home run. This might be my new favorite Polygon video. Such a solid mix of informative and fun! Would love to see more videos like this that actually examine what video games are, or can do beyond surface level entertainment. I mean art has a long history of being used politically, and socially. So if people want to call video games art, who knows what interesting things will come up. Even from a game like Simcity.

[@anorb5580]

loving the deadpan jacket-quote reading and retro editing at 1:20

[@kaylynns8878]

I can't believe they got THE sandvideo.fun guy to voice act!

[@AuntBibby]

can’t wait for the live action film adaptation of Magnesanti, where the horribleness of the city is depicted as being a Necessary Evil to prevent citizens from having delusional ambition for achieving happiness (gasp!!)

[@johnnyjohnson6643]

Seems like Mega City One from Judge Dredd, basically.

[@Winspur1982]

Trantor, the city that covers a whole planet in Asimov's Foundation trilogy, got there first. IIRC ... all Trantorians traveled by subway too. But in the second book it has mostly fallen apart and wilderness is returning.

[@user-sf4fy8bq1h]

@@Winspur1982 also there are virtually no women. at least ones that get to speak 🙃 I think that's more asimov than trantor though

[@Winspur1982]

@@user-sf4fy8bq1h That's a fair criticism. It was all vaguely inspired by the Roman Empire and Roman patriarchy. I love Samuel Delany's sci-fi because it's just as epic as Asimov's but heterosexual men are not in charge of everything.

[@Dong_Harvey]

Brazil by Terry Gilliam

[@aimelle3]

Clayton talking about dystopia always makes for good content. Reminds me of the Defcon video from a while back.

[@casir.7407]

absolutely great video clayton, love how these take a turn into the dystopic while also being extremely aware and honest about how video games relate to real world issues 🙌🏼

[@wellspokenrambler]

Expertly researched and produced video. Shall try not to think about how badly we are dehumanised in the name of model infrastructure.

[@ready2cry]

eagerly awaiting the chapter REGRETTABLY, RUDY GIULIANI

[@ready2cry]

discussing the city planning/video game overlap is something Polygon thrives at!!! everybody say thank you clayton

[@aarontheperson6867]

thank u clayton

[@NimhLabs]

Though, it more often than not involves somebody accidentally inventing Third Wave Ska again... >.>'

[@paigem.7165]

ugh clayton’s videos are always so incredible, watching them is always such a treat

[@Saycille]

Love this video! I'm currently studying to be a data scientist where I'm working on models and algorithms, and it is always good to consider how bias in models can perpetuate even more bias when that model is being used to inform and educate.

[@notarabbit1752]

Its so important for people to learn that algorithms aren't these magical oracles, but are things made by people and reinforce existing biases. Another example of Sim City 2000's bias is that there is no option for mixed use zoning. Its either Residential, Industrial, Commercial and no in-between. Interestingly though SC2000 has a pretty strong bias toward public transit, and I remember this realization helping to push me to understand the value of things like trains over cars. Newer city sims are much more car biased I find. I don't think SC2013 even had trains to begin with. The only thing I would add in fairness is that you can in fact create a small and balanced city in SC2000. It doesn't have to grow or change. The only thing is that then there is nothing to do. Just watch it hum along. There was even a demo city called "Boring" that was exactly that. It was a tiny little strip with minimal buildings that hummed along forever.

[@calliecilone9899]

The conclusion to this is one of the best I’ve ever seen, amazing work Clayton!!!

[@ListerTunes]

Wow. I literally got a geography degree because of how much I enjoyed SimCity and I didn't ever make this connection (don't worry, it's not my real job now). This is an amazing insight I didn't know I needed.

[@Pintroll300]

Same reason I got into planning: I’ve loved tinkering and messing about with cities in simulators since I was a kid, and now it seems ill soon be working at exactly that for a living! It’s wild

[@zasterahasalwaysbeenhere]

what's your job now?

[@seneca983]

"don't worry, it's not my real job now" Would it be that horrible of a job?

[@Pintroll300]

@@seneca983 Planning does tend to burn people out quickly - but it does pay well in most countries, so many people burn through it for a few years and retire young

[@seneca983]

@@Pintroll300 Really? I had no idea. Does geography prepare you for any other professions (aside from the obvious researcher or geography professor positions)?

[@TheLlamaHugger]

Not gonna lie, I thought this was gonna be an Unraveled parody because of the video’s name and the day it was posted 😅

[@thepantweaver]

In a way it is.

[@ashurredly7994]

I love seeing videos taking on the politics of a game directly and connecting that to real life examples! Thanks Clayton!

[@DustinRodriguez1_0]

When people say things like 'videogames aren't political', SimCity is usually the first game I think of. Not because it is overtly political, and I didn't know anything about the stuff detailed in this video, I don't believe it is trying to sell a viewpoint, but it was obviously built with one. Because it HAS to be. A philosophical outlook on how the world works, how societies form and function, stuff like that? That's politics. That's philosophy. Whether you're doing it intentionally or not, you will inevitably lace your fundamental thinking into your creations. Often times it's entirely by accident, but you can't say that a creation 'doesn't SAY anything' because literally everything says something. There are a trillion little choices woven into every intentional work, and the reasoning behind those exists. The one that always really stuck out to me about SimCity was the simple approach it takes to oppression by having no balance of people rebelling when there is overbearing police presence. That's a pretty easy thing to see in history and society. Once you reach a tipping point of control, every extra bit only intensifies violence. We've been seeing this in American schools since Columbine and they only respond with more oppression, which causes more school violence, and on it goes. I'm not bothered by what the system behind SimCity actually IS and I think it's beneficial no matter what that might be. Of course it's not realistic. It's a videogame. The word 'realism' gets thrown around a lot in the videogame space, but it's a ludicrous use of the word that just reveals that the people using it haven't actually given any thought to the matter. A realistic gunshot would make your ears ring and damage your hearing if you weren't wearing protection. A realistic punch sounds like meat slapping meat. What we get are foley effects created for films that people are used to associating with various things. Punches are usually snapping carrots and breaking celery. The realism of violence is utterly and pervasively unreal while being called 'realistic' so why should we expect city dynamics to be any different? What videogames do well is present a system of rules and then players learn and figure out how to manipulate the system using those rules (whatever they might be, if the game says you can jump and punch levitating bricks into an explosion, so be it) to achieve a goal. The techniques of how to explore, determine, use, and optimize those rules is an insanely great skill to master. And if SimCity had people thinking about cities in this way, that's fantastic! If they want to see how real cities work, obviously they then have an area to research, because nothing works the way it does in the game but that's fine, it gets them thinking and the world DOES function in terms of requirements, needs, one thing feeding into another, etc.

[@lucyalvey2770]

I am SO glad this wasn't a poorly made joke on this day but instead a really good and entertaining analysis of something you rarely hear about. Thanks!

[@jwaffles9269]

Clayton coming in hard with actual real world politics. I love it when creators that don't usually make political content do make a stray line or video about politics and I agree with them. it's so relieving to not be disappointed.

[@SecretBaseSBN]

shialabeoufclapping.gif

[@kazuichikazzie1567]

Poggers

[@amandadube156]

I don't know what this means but it's pinned so I must be missing something really cool...

[@aj7058]

@@amandadube156 in case you never found it kzbin.info/www/bejne/pWHYZYBsq9Wjeas

[@valen-qm5se]

I feel like videos like these have really become emblematic of Polygon's internet presence, I enjoy these so so much, I rewatch Polygon videos constantly, so thank you to everyone at Polygon for the work you do!! You guys strike the balance between intellectual commentary and shitposting, it's BEAUTIFUL

[@myettechase]

Wait why is this so fascinating I was expecting a silly april fools joke-

[@benrybczynski5798]

Every time I see a clayton thumbnail I know I'm gonna learn something and I'm gonna feel slightly uncomfortable about what I learned

[@TheAnthraxBiology]

It's crazy to think that city planners and politicians see us as the people in their glass box

[@aturchomicz821]

We arent all equal Sadge

[@lilygoated]

That was amazing! But I'll be honest I was bracing for it to be an april fools joke the whole time.

[@TheDiplomancer]

Clayton's delivery is the perfect level of "Hey, this is interesting," and "Holy shit, be afraid."

[@brianstephens8337]

Polygon Presents: Clayton Ashley's "Into the Mouth of Neoliberal Madness"

[@mrkruzkid]

Hi, (almost*) real urban planner here- just wanted to say this video was excellent and such a great dive into the topic of urban algorithms! Amazing work as always :) (*I finish my grad degree in exactly a month wish me luck on finals 🤞🏻😫)

[@whitealliance9540]

Make sure you look around and have BLACK co workers. City planners have historically beem taught racist practices and history is right there with the proof.

[@tpower1912]

@@whitealliance9540 lol no thanks

[@whitealliance9540]

@@tpower1912 youre welcome.

[@artuno1207]

The whole section on homelessness is an absolute giant YIKES, and helps to bring to light the politics of such things as welfare and social support in urban settings. I could talk about it for hours, but really it boils down to having city leaders with compassion and enough sense to realize that you just gotta give a helping hand to those who need it, and they'll find success for themselves.

[@captainshakesbeard2453]

A leftist version would have sims living in tents on the beach and defacating in the street

[@commenteroftruth9790]

You dont seem wise enough to have any solid input on any aspect of this.

[@moongem4489]

@@captainshakesbeard2453 A leftist verion would have lower homelessness because the sims would be ok with paying higher taxes for social services that prevent or decrease homelessness. Homeless people living in tents and defecating in the street is a result of not enough being done to safely house them and there being a lack of places for them to use restrooms without having to buy something or just being chased away. Nothing about that is remotely leftist.

[@tpower1912]

Giving people money for being homeless just monetarily incentivizes being homeless.

[@DeadHandtheSurvivor]

​@@tpower1912Let me guess, you also believe welfare is bad because it rewards people who "DoN'T WaNnA WOrK" even know it's much more complicated than that. It has been proven time and time again through research and even experiments that if you give people who don't have any money to turn their live around money, they will actually go out of their way to buy the stuff needed to find work, get a job, and keep it. Of which in turn *allows people to be able to get off the street and earn a home.* Any idea that giving the homeless money will keep them homeless is the same out dated decades old conversative talking points still being farted by Republicans that keeps homeless people homeless. How are you suppose to earn a home if it's literal impossible to do so?

[@marianaaraujo4981]

Amazing video! Fascinating how both experts and non-experts fall into the trap of assuming no bias goes into a social model and therefore its conclusions can be taken at face value

[@maddie9303]

I'm low-key obsessed with the idea that, by beating a game that literally runs on classism and capitalism, you can extrapolate what the target future is for societies with the same core mechanisms. Fantastic video, it scratches a very specific itch in my anthropologist brain.

[@bruschetta7711]

Would be interesting to see the impact of having an only educated population vs only having a non-educated one, cuz i would always build schools to fill education, but i'm not sure if it is actually impacting the city in a good way

[@commenteroftruth9790]

classism? there aren't classes of people in simscity. the closest thing to what you believe exists was the "homelessness". Which wasn't actually homelessness, it was just an injected factor which caused negative aspects in an area. It wasn't a system designed around people, simply around numbers. The real world doesn't work with just numbers. arguments against your precious welfare aren't arguments against people. they are logical conclusions and paths towards a betterment for people on a realistic level, not an idealistic faithful belief level set in idiocy ignorance and lies.

[@parasaur9061]

this,, somehow gave me horror vibes. thanks spooky existential clayton

[@ethan-loves]

Dang, this may be the best Polygon video I've seen! Fantastic work, Clayton and team.

[@finntayde3457]

Ok we all know that Clayton is smart and talented but can we talk about how cute he is?

[@grahamstoner]

Finn's got a thing for the Amish.

[@safe-keeper1042]

Reminds me of the controverse with Cities Skylines and how it through its mechanics 'forces' you to build car-centric North American-style suburbs.

[@aturchomicz821]

Even though the Devs are from Finland where owning a Car in the City isnt necessary, wtf...

[@lavendermenace8078]

Omg pats voice at 1:38 cracked me up so hard that is amazing

[@powergannon]

Just started my 15 minute work break. This looks like a good way to spend it!

[@confuciuslola]

Wow we should investigate these kinds of black box limitations more! Really glad someone is finally analyzing the politics of games

[@g96fuller]

SimCity 4 was probably my favorite game growing up in 2004. It was probably one of the precursors that eventually encouraged me to pursue civil engineering. I recently got back into it in December 2019, on my computer and I fell back in love with the game of my childhood. After racking up over a 1000 hours in less than a year, playing U Drive It missions I never knew existed and watching in wonderment seeing my cities grow increasingly larger and taller, I realized that I had a problem. In order to keep my citizens' Environment, Safety, Education, Health, etc. opinion bars fully green, I always seem to go into the red, and get yelled at by my financial advisor. Keeping the city clean, energized, hydrated, and mobile-accessible became increasingly difficult and I had to resort to stealing tanks from my army base and completing missions from Dr. Vu to stay afloat, at the expense of my mayoral reputation. I suffered these same problems when I was 8, taking out max loans without realizing what interest was, resorting to cheats, and eventually losing the game as my population all collectively moved out. Now that I'm older, I can see connections to real cities, municipalities, and their management and governance from my experience in the game. I see so many glaring problems in society, from healthcare, wealth and education inequality to pothole laden roads, and it seems like the main reason these issues are not fully mitigated are either because the funds are unavailable, or solving them would cost more money than they can raise. Coming from Illinois, the fiscal crisis cannot be understated, but I believe we will persist without government intervention, unless people are depending on pensions. Thanks for making this video. For a while, I've thought that either I was playing the game wrong because my city was not earning enough income to sustain a stable population despite providing everything they wanted and needed or if the game was just designed that way. But as with many responsibilities, heavy is the head that wears the crown.

[@lizzywho3892]

great video, well-researched and edited!!! out of curiosity, who did the art towards the end? i didn’t see a credit for it specifically update: nvm, just saw clayton’s tweet that he did it himself! amazing!!!

[@navingallimore4024]

Good job Clayton! You're doing great! You hooked me with your excellent editing of monster factory and have reeled me in with your thoughtful, well-explored, and excellently edited think pieces.

[@zakisbak735]

this was such a good video essay, and I would totally watch a one hour extended cut. amazing work.

[@jurrich]

A good audio setup is _so_ much more important than high quality video. Spend the $200 to get a ridiculously nice microphone, and take it from there. The content deserves it.

[@caligulacorday]

the world needs more stuff like this - i'm glad y'all have founda way to get money out of it

[@somecunninglinguist]

I love seeing Clayton, he's looking great too. One complaint: fairly regularly highlighting quotes on screen without reading them and then referencing them is super annoying and probably worse for blind viewers

[@sylghouls]

This remains one of my favorite video game video essays of all time. It's just so well-formatted and poignant. Really, really well done.

[@kirabrzeczyszczykiewicz2456]

Dude, this was great, more stuff like this please! I love deep dive analyses into the stuff behind how games work -- what the mechanics reflect back at us.

[@guytorie]

This is my favorite Clayton video that I've seen so far!

[@jnee]

This was another brilliant deep dive, I could watch a whole 40min documentary on this, tres bien!

[@ZypherRAWR]

This is why I love KZbin, and like watching Polygon’s content. There’s so many videos exploring topics that I never realised I wanted answers for! This was an excellent look into the politics and city planning theory behind simulator games... Thanks!

[@elchsohn7943]

Ah yes, another case of Stanisław Lem appearing in the middle of nowhere when you're researching something and somehow predicting the future almost perfectly while also brilliantly satirising it.

[@ambermiller3751]

this was absolutely fantastic!! everybody say thank you clayton we appreciate you

[@charliecrossing]

Clayton videos are my absolute favorite, they scratch an itch in my brain that can only be cured by extremely esoteric deep dives on a subject

[@charliecrossing]

After finishing the video, I really cannot overstate how insightful and impactful that was. Great work y'all!

[@thepantweaver]

Wow this was ABSOLUTELY FASCINATING. Probably the best video content this channel has put out in a long while. Hopefully this is an indication of the direction this channel is going to pursue for a while.

[@Eve.v]

clayton's videos always make me feel happy and comfortable !! i was worried this might be an april fool's and am so glad to see this is, indeed, simply a deep, thorough, complex, well-researched dive into an obscure topic that covers the overlap between two or more of clayton's areas of interest, this time covering the intracacies of how humans and the games they create both revolve around and influence in oftentimes unpredictable and surprisingly poignant ways, much like other art forms, and how they can teach us lessons about ourselves. like the walking simulator review :)

[@hoagie911]

This is in my opinion the best video Polygon has ever published. Well done Clayton and the rest of the team!

[@aturchomicz821]

based??

[@zeydalynn8634]

I never played SimCity but I got into CityState a bit later in life. Sometimes I would wonder if the game was "right". Sometimes, like when I took an economics course, I wondered if that would make me "better" at the game. Pretending that there is no connection between the art (which includes videogames) that we create and the life we live is foolish. It's intrinsic. It's unavoidable. But it shouldn't be avoided it should be understood.

[@henryterhune5066]

Clayton, this might be my favorite ever Polygon video. Super insightful, important, and approachable. Thanks for a great video and keep up the awesome work!

[@aetherograph]

I think it's worth noting that a piece of media can't wholly influence someone to do something that they weren't already going to do. It's a kind of a circle isn't it? Will Wright is from this society and was raised in this society full of dystopian black box ideas, and he made this game, which has this hidden dystopia in the black box, which is causing people to perpetuate even more refined dystopian ideas, etc. It's a horrible feedback loop and stopping it is as complicated as starting it was accidental. As a former homeless person (and you never ever feel like you're *not* 'homeless' again after that happens just btw for anyone reading) this is, however, **horrifying**, and a huge part of why civil engineering and dismantling these dystopia-making algorithms is something I'm so incredibly passionate about. I'm really glad y'all made this video and talked about this problem.

[@meganellis5479]

I loved to similarly say “Yikes!” each time along with Clayton

[@tobysinbad]

you guys truly never ever ever miss goddamn

[@georgioklironomos7995]

Fantastic deep dive!!! I love to hear about the underlying politics within games, I crave more videos like this!!

[@floopdoop3136]

this was SO interesting and well-researched, huge kudos Clayton & team!!!

[@Minihood31770]

Really good video, unfortunate release date because I spent the first half of it half expecting an april fools joke. The uncertainty and anxiety this day causes is exhausting.

[@norrin_sad2778]

I love how this is not even an april fools joke

[@emilherbert9494]

This video was so good!! Probably my fav polygon video in a while great work

[@BlackDragonAJ89]

I watched this after watching the recent Call of Duty video because I was thinking to myself "I didn't really play CoD to get hit by the military-entertainment complex, but then again I played a lot of city-builders, 4X games, and the sims..." And it always felt odd how everything was pushing towards constant growth as opposed to say, interaction within the community or different cities. I guess that's why I liked SC2013 so much despite the bugs because you actually got more of a sense of the different cities interacting and working with each other, and that having the smaller amount of land to work with actually made you really think about what went where and how it affected stuff around it. Eventually I'd like to build my own city building game in the future, but I want the little computer people to actually feel like a community and not just numbers.

[@henryambrose8607]

It's a big concept. I wonder if you could make it easier by starting with several smaller games that explore aspects of it first.

[@reynab7297]

next week on mysterious unknowable geometric shapes: clayton tackles the pyramids

[@Bacony_Cakes]

Which ones, the ones in Egypt, the ones in Sudan, or Amway?

[@axemtitanium]

Great video. Algorithms contain assumptions. At least with human-made algorithms, you can talk to the human who made them and they can tell you what those assumptions are (*can* but not necessarily will). From there, at least in principle, you can critique/tweak those assumptions to make a better algorithm. Machine learning algorithms are more powerful but more worrisome because the humans who designed them and set the initial conditions have no clue how the algorithm evolved to arrive at the state it finds itself in. It is impossible to discern the algorithm's assumptions or ask the question "why did it generate this result?"

[@agneskener9977]

this is again such a good vid, my mind is continually blown by Clayton's essays.... stellar

[@ejones789]

I am blown away at how great this video was. Thank you Clayton and everyone at Polygon!

[@LocalHarryLover]

That was really interesting! I always laugh at how SimCity turns me into such a heartless capitalist to win, just like Monopoly. It's interesting that both games were arguably created as parodies of these systems, the same way that The Sims was created as a parody of American sitcom living at the same time it tried to simulate it. And yet, SimCity gets taken seriously as a model with all these real-world implications. Fascinating, thank you!

[@commenteroftruth9790]

Anyone can take anything to mean whatever they want it to mean. It doesn't exist as a training tool or to be an educational tool. It exists as a simulator game. Idiots direct their ignorant and unwise minds towards anything and anyway they choose. It is irrelevant by itself.

[@TrueEnglishMan01]

@@commenteroftruth9790 Keep your head in the sand bud! Ideological and political assumptions are built into almost everything. That’s a fact. Humans are ideological creatures and it’s impossible to divorce these biases completely from your creative work. Exposing these biases is useful as it leads to greater understanding. You should change your name to “Commenter Of Ignorance” lol

[@CS-sf5nq]

If I could id make everyone watch this because its something a lot of people could learn from, how algorithms are biased, the dangers of lack of transparency, the need for educated consumerism, and the threat of unobjective programs being treated as an authority

[@Metalkatt]

Yup. Algorithms are only as unbiased as the people who write them, and we all have way more biases than we ever know.

[@criticaloperations2677]

Honestly some of the most digestible and critically engaged and fun videos I have ever encountered. ❤❤❤

[@jamesedmundson9684]

just great content, so many sites focus on the latest skin in some forgettable game but you never cease to impress.

[@edwardwakefield4478]

It's so hard to describe the feelings that Clayton's videos give me. But I think I can sum it up with a resounding y i k e s

[@KrisTheNinth]

Clayton, this video absolutely SLAPS

[@sylghouls]

This was really genuinely delightful, thank you for making something so cool and informative!!!

[@mpbMKE]

Props, this was *way* more interesting than I expected it to be (and I love this topic in general).

[@pinstripeowl]

this was great and unsettling as ever

[@AngelOfUnseen]

Is there any way we can start getting music credits at the end? The choice of tracks was perfection

[@wellurban]

As someone who has started to delve into the black boxes of one type of simulation that is used for one part of city planning (travel demand models), I’ve become aware just how simplistic and self-fulfilling they can be. Simplistic econometric ideas of “generalised cost” and “utility maximisation” strip out so much human complexity, and they’re limited to the societies and times they’re trained on, so they cannot respond to changes in culture or technology.

[@upotheke]

I appreciate you bringing the sociological nuance to the conversation that is often reduced to an algorithm in games. This modernist thought in the 60's-80's influenced land policy through the 2000's, and we're dealing with all the negative externalities today.