Citroen C3 (2017) AdBlue Nightmare😭 - P20E8 Urea Fluid Low Pressure

[@nesmio7378]

The fault P20E8 is always temporary because you have cycled the key at least once since the fault has occurred causing it to be not active. It is enough to cycle the key once after the triggering cycle for it to go temporary therefor drawing the conclusion that P20E8 is a temporary code and you just gotta refill tank and reset the denox system is incorrect. However sometimes although very rarely it is truly caused by low fluid but then the car will warn you well in advance (2400km) before that you have to refill so most customers are well aware whether low fluid level has a play in the fault or not. You can check this in Denox 2 parameters, the tank only measures up to 6.1L so if the parameter says above 6.1L then you are good. Sometimes it is easy to confirm whether it is the tank by going into Denox 2 parameters and checking for Adblue temperature and fluid level, if any of those are 0 (default value) when they clearly shouldn't be, the tank has an internal fault and should be replaced. The fault code P20E8 is easy to misunderstand if you take it literally, there is an absence of pressure but it is only the indirect reason for triggering the fault code. If the Adblue-system senses a fault within the tank (temperature, level, heater, continuity, integrity or software fault) the whole system shuts down and sets the fault code P20E8 - Low pressure but a better fault code definition would be fault detected within the Adblue tank causing the system to shut down the tank assembly, as I said sometimes you can see the fault yourself by looking at urea temp and urea level but sometimes those two values are real and working and something else is wrong within the tank which you can't see, if that is the case then check power and grounds to the tank, check adblue injector, check for Adblue leaks and check for NOx sensor correct NOx data during driving just to make sure you are not missing anything, if all seems OK the only thing left is the tank itself. The pressure and level btw you find in Denox 2. Btw 4 bar urea pressure is a replacement value / lowest value the sensor can read, if the data says 4 bar it means no pressure or pressure below minimum reading point meaning it means 0 bar 0 pressure. We / I diagnose and replace literally 100s per year working at the Peugeot dealer. Also for your information about Adblue / urea vs PAT / Eolys / Additive. All PSA diesel cars since long and even to this present day with the cars rolling of the factory still have the additive / pat / eolys fluid and since like 10 years or so also in additon Adblue side by side with the eolys, one as a fuel additive and one as an exhaust aftertreatment as was the case for the car you had which had both Adblue and Eolys. The thermal ageing of the denox converter is a value that starts at 100 for a new one and starts counting down to 0 as the computer calculates its aging / degradation. The calculation is based off of theoretical NOx generated (because there is only 1 post sensor on these unlike the new ones which have 1 pre and 1 post) calculated from a table in the ECU and comparing it to the post cat NOx value and seeing how effective it is in comparison to what it is expecting. As I said this value is counting down to 0, when they get to around 25 they are usually junk despite having 25 counts left. More than likely this customer will continue having trouble with the code coming and going until the tank is replaced. Replacing the Adblue tank with a used one is not worth gambling with considering they may develop the same fault quite quickly, it's better to buy a new tank however it is ridiculously expensive and not logical to replace unless you can get warranty or the insurance company to pay for it leading to most people just doing Adblue OFF reprogramming when this fault occurs and not being able to pay for the proper repair. Btw 4 bar adblue pressure in Denox 1 is a replacement / placeholder value and means the system has not yet activated and currently has 0 bar of pressure because 4 bar is the lowest the sensor can read and a working system ALWAYS starts at 6 bar and drops to around 5.5bar during use because of slow bleeding of pressure through Adblue injection but is then triggering the pump to build pressure again back to 6 bar. Therefor 4 bar = 0 bar. Also the level of theAdbluetank being sufficient was not a question for the sake of fault finding or diagnosing because the tank already had sufficient fluid level to work as you can see in the Denox 1 parameter where volume of fluid measured in the reservoir is 6.1 which means it's at 6.1L or above because the level sensor only measures a max of 6.1L, so if you see 6.1 its sufficient for system to activate. That being said ofc filling the tank is a good thing to do anyways just a bit sour for the customer if the fault returns and having paid for the Adblue and ending up doing Adblue OFF ;) The pressure building does not take place until all the right conditions are met, you can see when they are met by looking in Denox 2 at 2 parameters, 1 being Authorization of pressure based on temperature and the other being authorization of pressure based on pressure, only when both of these turn to 1 / ON / YES does the system start and build pressure and start injecting, as long as any of them are NO the system is not turned on. Authorization of temperature turns to YES when the exhaust temp reaches 200C. Authorization of pressure turns to YES when all internal tank parameters are correct such as temperature, heating pad circuit and feedback loop, continuity, software, Adblue quality etc.

[@sandyande]

Thanks for post lots of good information cheers sandy

[@nesmio7378]

@@sandyande Np, just added some more knowledge drops I remembered after posting the original comment. Will comment on some more of your videos just to get any viewers / customers aware as well incase they only stumble upon one of the videos and not this specific one.

[@martinsansom]

Hi. Some very good info on here. I am having trouble with a later (2019) vaxuhall combo p20ee. Injector has been replaced and rear nox sensor. Reset and clear faults but comes back after a couple of weeks. Do you know if there are any software updates or anything else to look out for?

[@nesmio7378]

@@martinsansom Take it for a test drive whilst reading parameters, check all things as I listed above in my long text, also look for leaks. Check Denox cat thermal aging, check actual vs commanded adblue injector amount, mostly you will see the problem comparing NOx 1 and NOx 2 to see the effectivity. You are on the right path, P20EE is almost always injector and / or sensor but can be the catalyst itself, does the tail pipe have white-ish (Adblue) residue on the inside of it? You always update the software on these, so more than likely there is a software for the car but if there is an actual fault it won't solve it. Lmk what you find and how you solve it!

[@marcitoth33]

Lova ya as a fellow car mechanic

[@kennedysgarage3281]

I’ve been stuck in that ‘ infinite loop ‘ a few times myself 😬 It is a right pain in the arse when all these scan tools are doing stuff differently and just confusing us poor car repair guys, fair play to Sterling for saving the day 💪 thanks for sharing Sandy

[@sandyande]

Thanks Peter we fight the car and the scan tool 😂

[@STURMTROOP]

Last year I had the same problem, only the citroen official assistance was able to repair it. Citroen has to carry out this type of diagnosis by calling the central repair bank in France. Diagnosis, replacement of the ad blue pump, there was no fluid passage from the reservoir to the particulate filter.

[@michelLevisse]

Hello, I had the same problem on my 5008 blue hdi 120 peugeot. After doing all the possible checks and tests, I had to face the facts: Ad blue tank pump module out of service. This is a recurring problem on psa brand models, still not solved because the manufacturer still sources from the same equipment supplier and replaces with identical tanks, so this problem is not over. Thank you for this video and good luck. (psa has become Stelantis and markets among others Peugeot, Citröen and others.

[@ttatimbo5830]

I too had this same fault code with the warning light on a 2017 dispatch yesterday. For some unknown reason my autel won’t communicate with any Citroen dispatches of any year under specific manufacturer, but I got the code through generic eobd. Called a few people, looked online, yup, £1000 plus vat for a new tank…. Pump has failed apparently. Customer is trying to get a recall/goodwill replacement, otherwise it’s a big bill for him…. Thanks for video 👍🏼

[@james684]

Sometimes you have to go in as a Peugeot to get full list of options

[@toyotoe3732]

Hi Sandy. Thank you for video. Re: citroen c4 grand picasso 1.6 bluehdi 17 plate 41,000 miles. Same code. Will be changing adblue tank next weekend. I have otofix scan tool (similar to your autel i believe). Re procedure to let ecu know new tank installed, click on special function, then pack special function, then parts replacement, then work on emissions control circuit. Then there is the option, "fuel additive pump replacement or additive tank replacement" . I know have to select this option, however not sure if I have to also select another option, "replacement of denox system reservoir, gauge pump module or pipes" ?(27.33 minutes into video). Appreiciate any feedback.

[@johnfittis5764]

These modern Diesel cars are a nightmare! Vauxhall Crossland needing a Nox sensor at 35000 miles🙈

[@ianaristotlethompson4186]

Thanks for that video. I have a similar problem. Don’t want to spend £1000 on a new tank.

[@mehmetakkus4915]

I have had the same problem. In Turkey at one shop only they repair the electronic unit by means of a few instruments and fix the problems. In our facebook groups there are members claiming to have the problems solved there. I talked to the man and he said he never witnessed a problematic pump and the problem is always about the electronic card if its a low pressure issue.

[@HsynCkr900]

Nerede bu tamir yeri acaba?

[@mehmetakkus4915]

@@HsynCkr900 Eskişehir selcar otomotiv. Ben yaptırmak için randevu aldım fakat randevuya 4 gün kala arıza lambası söndü. Ve hala sorunsuz çalışıyor. kzbin.info/www/bejne/iaSxdJhneJuao8k

[@ianaristotlethompson4186]

I have the same problem. After a bit of digging I found out that the add blue system should have been repaired by the dealers free of charge, as it’s a service recall. Fingers crossed.

[@SofianMesbahi]

Do you have more information which cars are included in this service recall?

[@hammeredhemi1223]

On a benz the fault is usually a blocked adblue injector as the adblue crystallises and blocks the injector, remove injector and clean with boiling water and refit clear the code and your done

[@abbeypropertycare8081]

I'm having a similar problem. How much did it cost to have it fixed

[@hammeredhemi1223]

@abbey property care 80 just remove the adblue injector place it in boiling water and it will disolve the caked on ad blue. Cost 20min of your time. Worst case it needs a new injector anywhere between 200 and 300 hundred euro approx

[@johnallright6847]

Been reading online that adblue can crystallise and block up pump??? There is and additive you can put into adblue to stop this ,allso on some peugeot and I presume Citroën that the adblue filler cap should be changed for one that vents and a lot of them don't??? They do sell these vented caps on ebay and the liquid to stop the adblue from crystallising. Any comments welcom3d.

[@raistlinmajere4856]

How to get access to see that advanced function i can only see the warning emission feilure

[@CanOfMapleSyrup]

What ECM module do you select for a Citroen C3 blueHDI 1.5 from 2020 ?

[@Dallas-GTR-86]

I have a problem I topped up adble still flashing with engine management light on its drinking fuel ⛽️ like he's on Vodka what do I do

[@marioaugustou4887]

Guys , drop the tank…these have actually got a non changeable filter in the tank. You will find once dropping the tank screws surround like a trap door where the pump in on the tank. Once you undo those you can move the lid just enough with wires still connected to expose a circular white filter with like a black straw hanging out of it. Get a syringe and inject water in to kill the adblue . Dry it . Box it up Refill And test Forgot to mention, on the engine side of the tank a 25t screw holding a little pull door to drain . Had this fault and cleared like so! Hope it works for you guys too

[@sandyande]

Hi did you renew the AdBlue pump or the filter? Cheers sandy

[@IngoHerges]

Is there a cheap tester/app what is capable of showing the ad blue pressure?

[@budgetairporttaxis6373]

Got a tank problem on my 1.5 berlingo. I noticed you said there is no engine light, this does not always come on, no idea why. My injector was blocked and upon cleaning and reinitialisation the tank would not run. Tank replacement required but no engine light or adblue warnings. These things are just a pain in the arse. If anyone needs a pump type your part number in at neobrothers. They have manufacturer tanks far cheaper than citroen supply them. I saved £500 on my tank.

[@james684]

Just don't get 1 please

[@neilhampson2843]

1K for an ad-blue tank,that seems like another reason not to buy a Diesel Citroen. Just an Idea, you could try a variable resistor on the tanks level sensor and see if could fool the car into it thinking it has a full tank. The owner would have to keep topping it up. Just a thought.

[@nathanlittle8945]

Most level sensors for adblue are not a float/variable resistor type, but there is probably some way of fooling it

[@jamesward5721]

This is usually a fault within the adblu resevoir itself & whatever is done, if the tank (spendy) isn't replaced the fault will return. It's a big issue with these PSA's. A lot of people opt for an adblu delete instead of a new tank due to cost..

[@Adrianek81]

Hi there,i have similar problem,ds 3 2015 1.6 diesel,UREA error on dashboard and emission error on radio car check,i just added add blue full tank about 6 liters,reset error at the garage and light came back after 3 days😮😮😮😮

[@cardecoder]

Main problem with Adblue is in liquid. With the time system get crystals everywhere and get stuck in injector, pump and so on. Solution? Put a some quality small filter for petrol engines as in motocycle or cars, after reservoair and replace him regulary. You will avoid future problems.

[@sandyande]

Thanks for good advice cheers sandy

[@keegan4039]

Excellent video , reality that is the shit we go through 👍😂

[@ceet12]

Is there any update on this sandy?

[@stevehayes6661]

Sandy the ADBLUE pump at a garage needs to be fully inserted it has a magnetic ring which allows flow only when fully in . Don’t be fooled by the pump acting like a diesel pump

[@sandyande]

Cheers Steve never knew that, Sandy

[@kellyeye7224]

Two issues here: one is the Ad Blue level which never seemed to match the 'full tank' you found you had when you topped up. So the level sensor perhaps? Number two is the fact that those expensive service tools seem to be utterly useless! Are engineers meant to own 'dozens' of the things? Why do readings change between devices? Is this deliberate by the tool manufacturers? Or are the vehicle manufacturers not being open about the data you're supposed to see? Either way the whole repair process seems to be tooled to PREVENT servicing - except, I suspect, by the stealerships.

[@philipyoung7017]

I have had fault recent codes P20F6 telling me the reductant (ad blue) injector is stuck open. I replaced the injector and cleared the fault code and it was ok. A couple of weeks later the same message came up. Given that I had fitted a new injector I cleared the fault. A couple of days later I got P3052 ad blue pressure low which sounds like an expensive pump/ tank replacement. Can anyone tell me if the ad blue pressure keeps the injector valve closed until it's opened by electrical signal.

[@musoseven8218]

A family member has had similar issues. We've cleared the lights, looks like an intermittent fault with the AB Valve. My apologies - video/reception was jumpy - did you find out what was wrong with the AB tank?🤔🤞

[@sandyande]

Needed a new tank and pump

[@MyRunningJourney]

Hows it going Sandy? I am on my second C4 Cactus, but both mine are petrol. However, I run a facebook group for owners and the diesels (which I believe are pretty much the same as the C3)with ad blue are a nightmare. People are constantly replacing, tanks, pumps, injector and nox sensors. Some people do manage to get Citroen cover all or part of the cost if they are willing to put in a fight though, even out of warranty. I know people have started mapping it out after multiple failures, although I am not sure on the legalities/MOT situation with that.

[@sandyande]

Thanks Alan for the information I'll tell the punter, hope you're well cheers sandy

[@james684]

Thing is the tank always sits at 4 bar of pressure when switched off, only rising after the engine is started and reaches a certain temperature.

[@Nycorexti]

4 bar is just the lowest that the sensor can read. True pressure is 0 bar. Working pressure 5-6

[@jackhaughey8127]

I have this problem on my Citroen C4 Cactus too. The engine repair warning keeps flashing up even though the engine runs and sounds good. My local garage says the P20E8 code has been reset a couple of times but it keeps doing it. First I thought it was the DPF filter clogging up but they said it's the AdBlue tank sensor. Any thoughts?

[@sandyande]

You need the adblue pump with tank, some have managed to clean up the pump and get it to work again, worth a try

[@jackhaughey8127]

Thanks@@sandyande it's going to my local garage soon so I will mention it to them.

[@evansmarts775]

I know this isn't an option but there is an option 2 ( remove the ad-blue system ) remap it ! Or does the customer not want to go that route better then 1k

[@sandyande]

Cheers Evan never thought of that option cheers sandy

[@dg3614]

I'm pretty sure this is illegal. Only if the car used off-road or will be exported outside of EU.

[@philipyoung7017]

@@dg3614 You are correct, it is illegal in the UK.

[@markl3386]

Last year I had my nox sensor replaced costly that was £565 now I have a fault with code p208e and p20ee can't wait to get rid of my diesel nothing but expensive fixes

[@armandonika]

P208E its the tank P20ee its an ECU update

[@stefanos2201]

I have p208e at the moment and they told me is the injector!i have Peugeot boxer,atm im waiting for the injector!when i drive the van to much smoke from exhaust! I pay allready 450£ and still they cant found the problem

[@locoxheavymetal]

hello people, i'm havving the same issue P20E8 on a partner dv6fd, I have done several test and I'm always stuck with 4 bar def pressure, everything else seems normal, no leaks, cleaned injector and nothing. I noticed on one of my drive test that the ECU wanted to inject some def but the injected reading was 0. I would like to test the pump to see if it can load more than 4 bar but the car wont do it by it self and my scanner doesn't have the function. If anyone has a tip. I'm stuck. Thanks in advance.

[@sandyande]

When it reads 4 bar that is actually 0 pressure as the sensor can not read under that amount, some folk have had success removing pump and cleaning pump and connections

[@locoxheavymetal]

​@@sandyandeI figured out the problem reading a coment on another video. My fault is that the temp sensor in the tank is reading 0ºC. I'm waiting for the tank and then hope it fixes it. Thank you for the help!

[@ryanh3285]

Seems like a lot of manufacturers went away from ad blue because its nothing but trouble and a rip off.

[@freedoompictures6839]

Sadblue

[@james684]

Pity it works so good at reducing emissions, got to be another way😢

[@simonhughes3705]

hi sandy. did the customer get it fixed after? was it the tank? just had a peugeot 3008 2.0 hdi with same fault code come in.

[@sandyande]

Hi Simon the customer has just returned the vehicle and only now wants it fixed! We are ordering the tank this week so will let u know but I believe there is also a software update to stop this occurring in the future

[@simonhughes3705]

@@sandyande cheers sandy

[@mikeberry304]

Well that's about 3 days of your life you will never get back Sandy 😂😂, did you get it sorted in the end? , I've got a 2020 Vivaro next week, out of warranty, 60 k miles, using addblue like screenwash , level dosent show when filled up , down to 50 miles before it stops starting 😂😂, if your Autel is MS 906 you can get a years updates for 256 quid at the moment, I got mine done at Christmas 🎄 for £204 , no problem with doing them , it's a good job we have 29000 scanners as they all tell different tales😂, I had a Dacia Stepway in this week , Airbag light on the dash , scanned it with Autel and Snap on , no communication, checked fuses , all good , found another couple of codes in it for engine , cleared them, now it won't start, turns out airbag control unit blocks fuel pump on the immobiliser, needs a refurb , £230 quid plus , don't we love our job 😂😂😂😂😂

[@sandyande]

I never got to bottom of that adblue one Mike but I believe pump was bad or just needed good clean up, that’s a good price for the Autel but it’s a bit slow now so probably not worth it

[@mikeberry304]

​@@sandyande or you can buy a new ms906 for less than 700 quid with a year's updates

[@the_retired_mechanic]

So did replacing the pump fix the problem

[@sandyande]

Customer has not sanctioned the repair yet cheers sandy

[@bravebrowser261]

If anyone in Yorkshire I make this problem never happen ever again

[@raymondlee8352]

designed to fail after time so dont waste yer time.. a new tank or scrape or mapped?this is why pump and sencers are hidden away inside tank could have independant pump oh no thats too easy...

[@mariokajin]

AdBlue delete….

[@romanmarcincak2693]

4bar=0

[@pastarmak]

The French new diesels are so unreliable, I stuck with my C4 in the middle of Europe with the same problem, had to stay 2 days in a hotel in small German city until they fix the problem in the local garage. Will never buy a french car again.

[@tam1381]

Sandy only £1000.00 what a bargin.

[@sandyande]

Sure is Tam, before COVID that motor would have taken a wee run up the bathgate hills never to be seen again 😭

[@IvanIvanov-pq4rh]

No need new adblue tank, need adblue off

[@sandyande]

Yes that’s true but how do u switch it off in the module or the vehicle configuration? Cheers Sandy

[@AndrewSowerby]

@@sandyande I don't know if you'll see it on all the third party diagnostics systems, like Topdon, Kingbolen, Autel, Launch or whatever, but if you are using Diagbox, there is a config item in the BSI config menu for "Presence of a Nitrogen Oxide reduction system", where you can change it from "YES" to "NO". However, there's no related config item under the ECM config menu, so all this does is prevent the UREA light from coming on, or the countdown being displayed, or the horrible (very distracting red) message being displayed on my car's second LCD screen every few seconds once the countdown starts. It doesn't prevent the P20E8/P3052 or P20F6 or any other Adblue related codes from being set (whatever the root problem is). Maybe disconnecting the wiring harness at the urea tank would stop that. I have heard that sometimes you might need to do this anyway, because the tank / ECU sort of "soft locks" when there's a persistent fault in the SCR system, and it won't even try to run the pump. Disconnecting the tank for 30 seconds or so is supposed to reset that, but I don't know... Anyway, I think the previous commenter is referring to an ECU remap. Some dodgy practice of mapping out the adblue, as well as maybe the DPF and EGR, and even getting a power and torque boost too. They only charge about €450... Of course, it's illegal to drive the car on a public road with those emissions systems mapped out, but people still just do it because it's not picked up at car tests (neither at the UK's MOT nor the NCT over here - at least not yet). I wish these systems were reliable, and weren't so expensive to fix. I could handle a one time total bill of, say, €1000, if there was a guarantee of a correct problem diagnosis, and the replacement tank was warrantied for at least 2 or 3 years or 50 or 60 thousand kms, but nope... They expect you to pay thousands and maybe give you a year guarantee, and you might have to do it 2 or 3 times in the car's lifetime. It's disgraceful really.