Civilization VI In-Depth: Government Plaza

[@PotatoMcWhiskey]

I love the work you put into this, great job on the production side of things, I have to really sit down and think about your analysis though before I can give my thoughts.

[@TheSaxyGamer]

PotatoMcWhiskey Thanks man, glad you liked it! I've seen some of your stuff as well, you make quality content! (Maybe we'll have to do a collab someday XD)

[@JamesMichaelDoyle]

The drunken potato has blessed you with his presence, and praise even!

[@Internet_Enjoyer]

are you guys fucking kidding? all the content of these videos are known to anyone with a decent skill in the game, its absolute basics. 99% of all youtube stuff and playthroughs is absolutely uninteresting to anyone actually dedicated to the game. i think youtube in 2018 is full of wannabe nerds and seemingly interested gamers who entertain their youtube channels just for mere profit, and looking at the videos of both of you, im pretty sure you fit right into this category.

[@GabrielSoares-ju9yq]

chill out dude..

[@WillCarter1976]

Wtf is foshism?

[@connorbrotcke254]

I really like Forign Ministry for when I’m going for either a science or economic win, I’m usually not pumping as many resources into my military in these cases so leveraging city states can be pretty clutch.

[@msolec2000]

When maths are hurt, I need to go to their defense. "Democratic legacy won't give you as much production as Communist legacy" Examples used: 20 population * .4 (8 production) and 4-district city (8 production).

[@Conor_Murray]

Plus applies without a governor, gives extra housing, and a city with 20 population can have up to 6 districts , so 12 production each

[@Conor_Murray]

Sorry 7 districts so 14 production

[@asparagoose8992]

The foreign ministry will go really well with Hungary in Gathering Storm, because they already get bonuses with levying city states. That's assuming they don't change the building's ability

[@atocanboi409]

Summeria gets a 50% discount on levying city-states...

[@ValunarTonix]

iirc hungary gets like, combat bonus, and a 75% discount on upgrading city state units

[@vanKrapfen]

I honestly don't understand why people find levying city state troups useless. There are a lot of situations that can benefit a lot from having a bunch of disposable troups at the ready at a moment's notice. I just played a city state emergency against Monty. He was on the other side of the map so it would have been painful to go there, but there was Akkad right at his border with a bunch of musketmen and crossbows, which I was Suzerain of. Emergency was over in under 10 turns and i spent the rest of the time pillaging in Monty's territory, which more than paid off for the levying (and the few upgrades I had to pay for because I wasn't Hungary) and gave me a bunch of science and faith to boot. Earlier that game levying troups saved my ass when Gorgo surprise wared me before I had built up my military properly. What should have been a clear victory for her ended up not even costing me any of my own units. Cost me all the gold I had (plus had to sell some luxuries) but was more than worth it. Lastly, i can't even count how often levying saved me in the early game on deity. Those 2 warriors and a slinger you can get quite easily at the start of the game this way make all the difference in the world.

[@ytubestolemyhandle]

I had a 'useless' city state next to me that sat on good resources and had A LOT of units. I got war declared on me by a neighbor. I had a lot of money but only a few units so I levied all the city state units for like 1600 gold (for which I'd normally only buy like 1/5 of the number of units by myself), so I swarmed the AI with the levied units pretty savagely, losing almost all of them, weakening AI enough to go for piece and ALSO weakening the city state enough to go siege it without losing 3/4 of my units. Then again that was like the only time I ever levied a city state. I'd rather wish to levy MY military to help a city state that gets invaded. Last game I nurtured Auckland quite a bit (like 12 envoys since there weren't many other useful city states) because I had sooooo damn many coastal cities, yet effin Dido took over it in like 5 turns and I couldn't do squat against her as she was a "FRIEND" I couldn't even denounce her. (such a good friend that accumulates over 300 grievances over the course of a friendship by breaking promises and attacking your allies and suzerained city states)

[@darrensanderson1031]

Agreed! Levying city states has been super useful a whole bunch of times for me. Hell, if I declare war on someone I'll often just leverage the nearest city state to them that I can, and throw their units at the enemy's walls as a distraction/free city capture.

[@darrensanderson1031]

@@ytubestolemyhandle I had a similar thing happen last game. However, if you levy their military, the units count as *yours* (ie, your 'friend' AI can't attack them) so you can levy the military and sit their units in a circle around the city center and basically use them as extra walls so that the AI literally can't capture the city. Should buy you long enough to send a pile of scouts or builders or other cheap units to act as permanent walls instead. Won't stop the war, but will prevent the AI from capturing the city state.

[@architjain30]

I've literally captured a ton of cities using levying units on deity. I agree it is super useful feature. I played a whole culture victory game with no army but suzerain of a ton of cities and a ton of gold output. Anytime I would be declared war against, I'd levy units and capture a city or two sending in my siege support only.

[@HighWideandHandsome]

Just the other day I was playing as Pericles, going for a culture victory as one does, and Sweden declared war on me early on. Since I was spending my envoys on city-state suzerainty, I was able to levy a TON of units from the nearest city-state and repel the attack.

[@Skyblade12]

The ability to purchase land units for faith is also one of the best defensive abilities in the game. The ability to summon an army for faith (even armies can be bought for faith if you have the right Encampment building) let’s you completely ignore your military and still respond instantly to a surprise war. It has saved me from being invaded more than once.

[@patheronaetherson2860]

It also makes having a Religion awesome, particularly with Choral Music or Jesuit Education makes all your Holy Sites extra unit production for all land units excluding Giant Death Robots

[@MrBrock314]

Yep, if your production isn't super high but your gold is solid (but not amazing), you can easily buy 3-5 artillery armies and decimate your enemies with just the faith accumulated by having a couple holy sites that you captured along the way. I use it to open a 2nd or 3rd front in domination victories while my main cities are focusing on amenities and gold.

[@asparagoose8992]

Catherine +intelligence agency=god tier art thief fueled culture victory

[@amelliamendel2227]

If you build the government plaza in the city with Victor and have his promotion that gives units a free promotion spies built in the city can start out with the stealing great works promotion 10/10 recommend

[@captainosu2094]

Use Facism. Stack with Oligarchic Legacy and Fascist Legacy. All Land Melee/Anti Calv/Naval Melee now have +12 Combat Strength.

[@TheSaxyGamer]

If you have enough wildcard slots to run both over other things, that's certainly a viable option.

[@captainosu2094]

Seeing as Fascism has room for 2 Wild Card slots by default not counting any methods used to gain more: it's impossible not to.

[@Wjw129]

@@TheSaxyGamer That's why Greece, America and Poland are much better in Rise and Fall than in vanilla in terms of winning a domination victory.

[@atocanboi409]

@@captainosu2094 you can also switch to another government after getting the building.

[@Wjw129]

Gov plazas are really useful for adjacency bonus stacking - In particular in at least a 7 pop city, using the gov plaza to provide an extra +1 to commercial hub and harbour "triangles" in preparation for a golden/heroic age (as well as using Reyna's +100% adjacency to harbours and commercial hubs) can set you up for a huge science boost in the early-mid game.

[@thebluelunarmonkey]

I am now going to have to scan the coastline for being able to lay a plaza next to the Comm + Harbor triangle with the city center.

[@nathanskeen5865]

Foreign ministry technically would be good when playing as Hungary bc of the Black Army

[@dashua1735]

Not just the Black Army, but the Raven King ability too

[@Caspenar]

i don't think Hungary was in the game when this video was made

[@speedypichu6833]

@@Caspenar It wasn't, but Hungary obviously goes really well with it

[@SeoulMan]

Thank you for doing this. I appreciate your consideration for covering this new feature of the game!

[@TheSaxyGamer]

Thanks man!

[@CxImed]

18:40 have liang in a city nearby to bush builders with extra charges. The more charges on a builder, the more production goes into it. Very powerful for spacerace.

[@pepijnwarmerdam8784]

Also try to build the pyramids for that same reason, with the public works card plugged in this will prodoce 7 charge builders to get the maximum boost for your project.

[@drewbakka5265]

I have never not gone ingelligence agency. Even if you dont want to rob civs a counter spy is always good

[@buttronprime]

HA IGELLIGENCE

[@thebluelunarmonkey]

19:24 If you have a few builders with 1 charge remaining, you can use multiples to rush a project in 1 turn as long as the builders have enough movement points to move onto the district and expend their charge.

[@jamesloder8652]

I don't understand your math here... you get +0.4 production per citizen in a city with Communism if you have a governor... this means you need 10 citizens just to get 4 production. Conversely, if you have only TWO districts in a city with Democratic Legacy, you will be getting +4 production, as well as +2 Housing. How is it that you decided Communist Legacy will give you MORE production than Democratic Legacy? If you're building districts, I don't see how you could possibly end up with less production in Democratic Legacy.

[@barruc9644]

I was looking for this comment, thank you!

[@martymcfly88mph35]

Agreed, communism sucks. In real life and in Civ6 too!!

[@windflier1684]

@@martymcfly88mph35 what date were you in? The game updated ages ago, now It's 0.6 production per citizen and +10% science to whole civilization, way better than democracy to go for a science or culture victory.

[@martymcfly88mph35]

@@windflier1684 I will never be a commie

[@qybl]

small correction (5:50): when combining +50% production from 2 different sources, you will actually more than double the original production, because the boni are multiplied and not added together. Having 2x 50% bonus will result in a 225% production rate.

[@tehjoch]

I'm currently in a state where I tend to spawn out settlers early (as per one of your videos I think) - so even when going tall I would have quite some cities without governor at first, should I just stall audiance chamber?

[@beatus72]

I just used the Foreign Ministry playing Persia. Made some good money with trading routes and saved some for an attack an neighbours. Two city states on the borders happened to be under my control and both had quite nice military, though not very modern. When I attacked I leveraged the units of both city states, giving them the combat bonus from the ministry. Next I upgraded the outdated units on the city state territory and then rofl stomped two neighbouring nations with them and about 4 or 5 own units. Note that both city states had built 3 catapults for some reason which were upgraded to cannons. Enemy cities didn't stand a chance. Worked well for me.

[@thebluelunarmonkey]

Nothing on plaza placement. If you build it 2 tiles from the City Center, you can surround it with districts. Example, Holy Site, Campus, Comm Hub, Industrial, Theater, Encampment. Each district would be touching 3 districts (plaza counts) getting a +1 bonus PLUS the +1 for being adj to the Plaza. Surround the Plaza with 5 districts, leaving room for Casa wonder (theater gets +1 wonder bonus, the +1 because it's touching 2 districts, and +1 for adj to Plaza. You may want to make sure you have a free tile next to theater, campus, etc... for their associated wonder (Broadway, Oxford) This city will need to be big to support building all these districts, so hopefully you either put all your traders here for food/prod or you have a nice big patch of Grasslands for farms. If needed, use great engineers to allow city to build 1 more district than pop allows I actually survey all my cities for Plaza placement once I'm up to 5-6. Use map pins to mark them out so I don't accidently screw up my plan. Look at the tiles 2 tiles from each potential plaza site for bonuses for your districts... get lucky and you'll find a mountain for campus, a pair of forests for holy. Use encampment to fill bonus-less tiles, such as if there's a prime spot for industrial with 6 surrounding hills!!!

[@Pablud3S]

Leveraging is extremely useful on marathon speed (which I play almost exclusively), because training your own army takes extremely long time and leveraged units are under your control for 60 turns (I think...)

[@e2driver99]

Levy a city states military is very useful late game domination. Especially after building big bend. A far away civ can be quickly accessed by becoming suzerain of nearby city state, upgrade the units as necessary and you have troops in place to take their capitol.

[@monkeyt1554]

faaaascist

[@LemonMoon]

If you need some quick era score, and you have a lot of money, levying the armies of city states will give you +1 era score.

[@pepijnwarmerdam8784]

Leveraging a city state army gives you era scpre if you're looking for those few extra points.

[@Phlebas]

About the Foreign Ministry, that bonus to city state units isn't just for leveraged ones. It's for any city state that you're the suzerain of. I agree that leveraging units often isn't worth it - I can always find better things to do with my gold than rent an army, but it's nice to have a buffed up city state to help you fend off an invasion or, if you're playing domination, to soften up your enemy's army before you go in with your main force. It's not the best tier 2 building - I usually go with one of the other two (Grand Master's Chapel if I'm a warmonger with decent faith production, and the Intelligence Agency is just generally useful) - but if I find that I have a lot of loyal city states and I'm expecting to get in a fight, I'll occasionally go for the Foreign Ministry.

[@byjordi2185]

I always wait for the perfect spot and then forget to use it and when I use it its not even close to be properly so this video is perfect

[@natsune09]

I've only used the leverage units once in all of my playthroughs, but that one time saved my butt. I had my army far from home to take out an enemy who was close to winning. Just by chance, a bunch of other nations declared war on me at the same time, so I had very little to defend my capital. I was going to lose, so I gave this a try as a last ditch effort, and it was enough to save me. But, that was the only time I ever had it be useful.

[@patrickbendix6867]

Hi Saxy Gamer. Not sure if this is the right video to ask this, but can you make a video on government types and a tier list of which policy cards you think are strongest for each type of victory condition? That would be awesome!

[@louisrizzi9990]

The only time I've found city state levy useful is when I'm afraid my allied city state is going to raze or pillage lands I want. It doesn't happen too often, but there is nothing worse than winning a hard fought siege just for your city state ally to burn down the prize.

[@groinBlaster31]

Louis Rizzi they can be pretty powerful if you’re behind on science. Because I believe their troops keep up with barbarians, who in turn keep up with the fastest player I think.

[@rudolfnechvile5023]

Foreign Ministry will be a must have as Hungary.

[@larrote6467]

I think the foreign minstry is tailored more for defence: you are a charismatic leader, tall empire, economic and diplomqcy focused. you get declared war and you can amass a temporary army to fend them off.

[@vicratlhead2228]

Only remember getting good use of leveraging in Vanilla and that was just because I had fantastic gold income and Lisbon had for some reason built an absurd number of units. Lisbon mercs made up the bulk of my army. triple After R&F I've found it useful when an emergency is out of reach. You can leverage a nearby CS and triple that merc money. Decent investment.

[@TerbrugZondolop]

Playing civ 6 from civ 5 has now become a job.

[@MultiFreeman31]

can you leverage city state units, use them to attack another city state (preferably destroy them or sell them and then take that city state no units= no defense) ?

[@Jondiceful]

Can you update this for GS?

[@JackRule16]

I like the jackfrags outro about likes

[@TheSaxyGamer]

Haha, I didn't even realize how similar it was, I do love some good Jackfrags though.

[@Pyrosage2009]

If democratic legacy is still +2 per district then I think it might actually be on par with communist, communist gives you +4 production per every 10 citizens, while I think you only need about 6 pop to have 2 districts, 9 for 3?

[@nerdlingeeksly5192]

The only way that leveraging city-states is useful is when you only keep a small defensive Army and you are a cesarean of three or more city states around your nation and you have a booming economy with lots of excess gold that you never spend the only other use is maybe you didn't play in your assault very well and all your units might die when sieging a city but you're also very close to taking it then it can be useful to leverage units to go win that fight

[@VHToff0li]

I'm not pretty sure but I think you can use the foreign minstry as gilgamesh and stack the -50% discont on levy provided by their civ hability alongside with the building bonus and thus paying nothing to get those units

[@lumen101]

Nobody: The Saxy Gamer: Faucist

[@skyechen2673]

Do an in-depth video about the spy!

[@excancerpoik]

Leveraging units can be really good but by the time you get the forgein minastry its too late

[@ivandimitrov7994]

Monarchic legacy is +1 housing per level of wall, not in total.

[@Lowlightt]

Yes he was saying that in most cases he only has 2 levels of walls in cities when that card would be used and that means its only about +2 housing. Which isn't very important for him.

[@KingTainmentTV]

very professional videos very good

[@peterknutsen3070]

Is the content in this video still reasonably up to date, as of January 2021?

[@Mr_Fission]

The "a" in "fascist" is pronounced like the word "fast" / "bat" / "cat".

[@ultru3525]

Yeah, was wondering if he mispronounces it to avoid demonetisation.

[@OurBelovedBungo]

@@ultru3525 And misspells it for the same reason? :D

[@peteszewczyk7652]

I know this is a year old...to the day (weird I decided to watch this today I guess) but isn't Communist Legacy grossly under-powered compared to Democratic Legacy? I mean think about it, if you had a city of 10 (not a bad size, but would be low late game to have with a governor as well) than the Communist card would grant you +4 production. However with the Democratic card in the same city it's not inconceivable you would have two districts down and would also have +4 production with the Democratic card. Plus, in cities such as your capital at this point in the game it's safe to say you have at least 4 to 5 districts in your city, which means the Democratic card would give +8 or +10 production to the city plus the housing bonus and minus the requirement of having a Governor installed. The Communist card could be good if you played on a large map and had tons of cities but the requirement of the Governor completely negates it's benefit in that scenario.

[@operative7954]

Royal Society is good for getting the last batch of Great Persons.

[@alexandermoore2959]

I know this was 9 months ago, but instinctively the whole "Audience chamber is for tall, Ancestral hall is for wide" thing isn't intuitively true. You can cheat the housing cap in cities using the audience chamber, then moving governors to new cities to get those tall as well. I personally view it as "Audience chamber allows you to build cities with stronger potential. Ancestral hall gets them functional faster". As for Monarchic legacy which you think isn't useful, I again disagree. If you already have all the land you need to win, Monarchic legacy rewards you with more housing for cities for building defensively: something you want to do anyway. a favourite strategy of mine is to take monarchy to get monarchic legacy, then swap to Merchant republic afterwards and using monarchic legacy. Especially if you have a lot of cities and not many governors, Monarchic legacy ends up being stronger than mercantile legacy. Even if the 3 housing from monarchic legacy isnt great by itself, you can stick with monarchy and you have 6 bonus housing, which is really nice. Don't underestimate monarchic legacy, it's good. 6 Housing is 2 more districts in all your cities. I agree with you that foreign ministry is eh, I've also never made use of it, but I can see it being good if the units leveraged also gain strength bonuses from Oligarchic legacy, fascist legacy and fascism, thats a 16 strength bonus to those units in total, and if you're also dominating using crusade thats 26 strength bonus, a difference of 30 is enough to one shot a unit. 4 strength by itself isn;t much, but if you keep stacking the bonuses, they become massive. Also watching this, im thinking that plus 2 production used to be the legacy bonus for democratic legacy and you thought that was weak, even with 1 production I still prefer it to the other bonuses. TL:DR, I think all of the government types and legacies are fine, there are times where using all of them is optimal, same with the legacy cards. The only thing is Autocracy perhaps needs a buff, but thats the only thing I think needs changing, government wise.

[@veketal]

You mentioned Seondok earlier in the video, why is it so popular? It doesn't get any adjacency bonuses, only minuses.

[@averagehotwheelsenjoyer1649]

Inherent +4 is better than adjacency bonuses unless you're playing a New World Highland Map

[@Charb-izard]

State Workfore. I dunno where to find that in the tech tree

[@fijat9099]

its a civic, not a tech

[@Tetragramix]

Democratic legacy gives more production than Communist legacy, based on population size, if you are keeping up with districts.

[@michaelboucher1023]

When you say leveraging, thats referring to levying a city state's military?

[@TheSaxyGamer]

Yep!

[@PietroSurjus]

Great Guide mate!

[@blongacre]

Foreign ministry can be very useful with Hungary

[@dasaunmcclinton68]

Can you add on to adjacency bonuses after the district is already day built?

[@BlakeZeb]

Dasaun McClinton really late reply but in case you haven’t found out, yeah I’m pretty certain they get bonuses after being built

[@darian235]

More in depth!

[@thatonekid640]

Leveraging is good when your trying to siege Kyoto in true start as anyone in Europe

[@MrHellknightimp]

Larger the map the better democracy is, I play only on huge maps and slow speeds, my cities always are at the district cap

[@ultru3525]

You completely glossed over the +8 loyalty, which can be put to good use when forward settling. Early on, even newly settled cities can get the Government Plaza up pretty fast, and if they also have a governor established, they're almost guaranteed to remain loyal. Occasionally, this will allow you to settle a great city that would've been impossible to keep otherwise, and can be more valuable than optimal adjacency bonuses.

[@OurBelovedBungo]

Aren't you limited to one government plaza total, not one per city?

[@ultru3525]

​@@OurBelovedBungo You are, so you only get to do this once a game (assuming you don't lose that city). Anyway, thanks for replying, after having taken a break for several months, I had forgotten about this tactic which could've been useful in my current game.

[@danieldoughty6471]

I would really like to hear an explanation for how Communist Legacy was actually better than Democratic Legacy. At 21 population with Communist Legacy, you would be getting an additional 8.4 production, but only in cities with an established governor. At 21 population with Democratic Legacy (and maxed districts), you would be getting an additional 14 production plus 7 housing, regardless of if the city had a governor or not.

[@jasso1340]

So would building the government plaza in your capital forst be a good start?

[@lucjanl1262]

No

[@BJonesy1180]

What do you mean by tall and wide civilizations?

[@joshuastory7365]

Brian Jones Tall refers to a strategy where you build few cities (around seven) and focus on building them “tall”, e.g. dedicating resources to them, while playing wide refers to focusing on expanding often and having a large number of smaller cities spread over a wide amount of land.

[@MrBrock314]

The math on that democratic legacy vs. communist legacy seems pretty far off. Unless you have GIANT tall cities, A 4 district city with democratic legacy beats the same communist legacy city in sheer production ignoring the housing. 4*2 = 8. 8*(1/0.4) means you'd have to be size 20 to match but by then you could have more than 4 districts so the math is even worse. Communist legacy would be beneficial sometime past size 25 or so perhaps. In most of my games, I get like maybe 3 cities size 20+ even going until the end of the game. You could probably get a few size 30 cities but I can't imagine getting 7 of them unless you're a special civ that focuses on that (like Kongo, Khmer for example).

[@Milko7002]

Bruh, video from 5 Years ago... And me and my friends still call that "new district"

[@trevorsherwood4324]

I don't think I've ever heard anybody pronounce Fascist like that. Great video though!

[@madamedutchess]

Should be "its" in the description.

[@zacharytravis1919]

Raina makes it rain u say😁

[@stevenheydorf6686]

Democratic Legacy was nerfed because of being too strong. XD

[@DynaCatlovesme]

So was Warlord's throne. It's now 15% production for _units._

[@404no57]

-1 MISPRONOUNCING FASCIST AND -1 MISSPELLING FASCIST

[@TheSaxyGamer]

I GUESS I'LL JUST HAVE TO DELETE THE VIDEO FOR THAT

[@Thekapitan]

@@TheSaxyGamer lol

[@ArtanisOwns]

ugh i hate spies theyre such a pain to use. i hate that theyre strong, i wish they were weak. it especially sucks when strong spies are in the game stealing your shit and you cant do anything about it

[@darian235]

City attacks and war weariness

[@pedigojimxx]

You sound like the reverend from the Simpsons. Has anyone ever said that to you?

[@TheSaxyGamer]

Never the reverend but many time I’ve been told I sound like principal skinner

[@tyleraricci]

Say "Fascist" again.

[@TheSaxyGamer]

Fascist

[@Bonk4Me]

@@TheSaxyGamer aaaand its twitter

[@acronin08]

Do one for the vanilla civs too!!!

[@TheSaxyGamer]

I'll be doing Leader Spotlights for all of the vanilla civs in addition to the in-depth series!

[@acronin08]

The Saxy Gamer Thanks! Love your content!!!

[@Steve_Keen]

Governor

[@NielsSHansen]

governour (plural governours) Obsolete spelling of governor

[@Tvirus12]

idk how you can release a video and not write notes about how much yields each thing has. You do too much '100%,200% or something like that" in your videos. Those are big differences in numbers

[@krisrhodes5180]

Have you started pronouncing fascism correctly in the three intervening years since this vid? Please?

[@jacksonbianco2934]

These are so helpful and really entertaining. Great work, but you say “ugh” a lot and most other channels that have content as good as yours have smother dialogue. :)

[@CurlyTop878]

Needs in game visuals

[@lucascurtis2078]

Foshism