Civilization VI In-Depth: Loyalty

[@Phlebas]

Weird thing happened to me when I started a game today. I went for a game as Germany playing on a Europe map with real start locations (marathon speed). One thing I noticed on every real start location map is that some civs start _really_ close to each other and well... let's just say that Western Europe might be a tad over-represented. I spawned right next to the Dutch and the French. I got a hilly region next to a river, but not really great food-wise. The Dutch settled right on the coast and had plenty of good agricultural land. So naturally, their city grew faster than mine. As soon as they hit pop. 2, while I was still at pop. 1, Aachen started to lose loyalty. At first it was something like "800 turns to revolt", but that quickly turned into "50 turns" then "30 turns". Had I continued with that game, I would have lost my capital before I could even get a second unit out. So I restarted and did something I _never_ do. I built a worker first just to get a farm going and grow my population to keep up with the Dutch. They still outpaced me in population, but I was able to hold out until I could get a small army together and conquer Amsterdam. Then Paris and France's second city just for good measure. Then, just out of the blue, London revolted and decided to join my empire, so I suddenly found myself with a city in the British Isles before I had even researched sailing.

[@michaelstronghold3550]

Get gud.

[@danielgammo]

Get grammar classes? Trivago.

[@rotopope]

Thanks Phlebas. I’ll consider that.

[@infinite6163]

Noice

[@kakaquintiliano]

U got to allie with neighbors to not loose

[@1Maklak]

The main takeway from this is that a newly founded city will have +10 loyalty per population (5 in dark, 15 in golden age), so founding a city on a -10 loyalty tile is OK and even -20 loyalty tile is manageable if the city grows fast and/or gets a governor. I once shied away from forward-settling a -11 loyalty tile, but thanks to your video now I know better.

[@ODiddy67]

1Maklak I took the leap this evening and settled two islands with two settlers seven tiles apart at about 20 loyalty pressure in each city center. By putting in monuments and governors with two cities helped. The internal trader route and improvements bumped up my population, and I had full loyalty. I was shocked, so now I’m on KZbin learning.

[@mmartata]

why are there -20 loyalty tiles. what causes the negative loyalty

[@1Maklak]

@@mmartata The negative loyalty is caused by cities from another civilisation being close by. It goes up the more population those cities have and the closer your own city is. Having your own cities close by and populous and having a governor helps with loyalty as well. Loyalty is a mechanic to prevent putting down troll cities in the middle of another civilisation.

[@mmartata]

@@1Maklak bro i get -20 loyalty on tiles where there is no city in 20 tile radius, why is that?

[@1Maklak]

@@mmartata I have no idea. It never happened to me and sounds like a bug. Unless thereare some nearby cities in fog of war, but you said, you explored 20 tiles around it.

[@windflower2141]

I'm a new player and recently played as Eleanor of Aquitaine and after a certain point, all of the Netherlands cities started flipping one by one over to France. It was a great feeling and I had no idea what I was doing 🤣. I even flipped Johannesburg city state!

[@craigchronicles5130]

Basically making Belgium at that point😂

[@darkfangulas]

If your cities about to flip you can sell it to them and get gold even though you were about to lose it anyway 😂

[@deusvult8251]

Why do you laugh?

[@darkfangulas]

@@deusvult8251 why are u so tense

[@deusvult8251]

@@darkfangulas please fix your spelling

[@darkfangulas]

@@deusvult8251 ok loser

[@deusvult8251]

@@darkfangulas heathen

[@manofmartin]

Thank you so much! This has been the hardest thing to come to terms with in the expansion! I love the idea and its implementation but I didn't understand the actual mechanics! Super helpful!!! Thanks for the time and effort!!!

[@willburn182]

I love that you made a slide show out of this. Great info man. Thanks for posting this stuff!

[@danielpiotrowski4946]

Amani's ability is pretty nice when used in conjunction with Elenor of Aquitane

[@MagisterCobb]

Step One Take the cities, Step Two sell all the things, Step Three move troops out and wait until it flips to Free, Step Four re-take the city and raze, no warmonger penalty.

[@lukefranklin5]

24:07 fun fact: Æthelflæd was actually a woman. She ruled the kingdom of Mercia from 911 onwards

[@luisborja9736]

So wouldnt that make her a Queen? If i remember correctly her title was “Lady” meaning she ruled over a Lordship.

[@lukefranklin5]

@@luisborja9736 It wasn’t a lordship because this was before England as a concept existed, let alone feudal England. At that time England was split into many smaller kingdoms, one of which was Mercia and was ruled by Æthelflæd.

[@luisborja9736]

@@lukefranklin5 But she was never Queen and nor was her husband, thus its not really a kingdom. Besides, im confident in saying Mercia was a vassal state of Wessex at the time.

[@swedishfishshorts6385]

@King Leopold That was random

[@hiperzombie4465]

Just got the expansions and I was quite confused on this matter but thanks I got the general idea on how to use it to my advantage

[@TheFlood2009]

I was once blind but now I see. Thank you so much for this video. I will now be able to take my enemies with kindness.

[@logancline7879]

In my opinion loyalty is such a annoying mechanic. It makes a domination victory (which is the only way I like to play) too annoying because when ever I invade another civs territory I have to reconquer like half the cities I invade. They should just add an option to turn loyalty off when creating a new game

[@toughmunths]

Mods

[@borancam7426]

Git gud

[@rickeykekoa023]

I thought it was annoying too because i always went domination. But now i love it because it not only adds a challenge but just makes sense if applied to the real world. You can’t just take a place and expect no rebellion of you just roll on through

[@SidMajors]

Now with Gathering Storm, you got some interesting loyalty mechanics with Dido. Played against her a couple of times (online). The guy would capture a city state next to me (with those OP boats), move his capital next to it and pressure me like that. No way for me to get his cities by loyalty either untill I’d get spies. Fucking annoying I tell you xD

[@anthony-joewaked5139]

For spies, how much loyalty is removed with their mission depends on how many promotions they have or if they have the promotion to foment unrest (that’s the name of the mission to remove loyalty) as if 2 levels higher. It starts with -20 and then it’s -5 per promotion.

[@kaesden]

Cyrus should really be +4. better than shaka's base, but not as good as his best. *edit* Keep in mind that Cyrus bonus ONLY applies to occupied cities. I believe once you get the city traded via peace and have them cede the city to you, this will no longer apply. Shaka's bonus is active at all times in all cities.

[@TheSaxyGamer]

Ah, I suppose that that makes it a bit better and a little less cheese.

[@LuLu-ip4zb]

I think a buff to Shakas Bonus is better, like armys give +7

[@NYCCamper]

how about when another civ that will place a city right on your doorstep knowing that it will flip into a free state

[@blueheartorangeheart3768]

It’s free (real e)state!

[@circuitbreaker08]

Oh no, the video is going to revolt.

[@MikeCurran-nf9ym]

To quote Chevy Chase playing President Ford in the debates..."I was told there would be no math involved"

[@leion800]

Loyalty pisses me off. I lost 2/3 cities to a surprise invasion, and after making a second City and I can't make a third to get iron. It's painful to get anything done.

[@lisaward406]

Is there a way to turn it off , I was playing as Sweden and litteraly not but 25 turns in my capital flipped , I had one other city but I had 0.7 culture and science ( this was on a tsl earth btw)

[@Genesis.1-1]

I'm new to Civ 6 and Rise and Fall, but it seems that regardless of the settings used to start the game that Civs start too close to expand much without losing loyalty. When you're starting on the coast and have two civs and a couple city states within a dozen squares of your capital within 6 turns, expansion without losing loyalty is next to impossible.

[@gabriellemaudlin9145]

When you customize the game I always just go largest map and then decrease the city states by 3 or 4 and maybe 1 civ just to help with spacing. It's seemed to help a lot with getting good games going and gives you a little time before you run into someone else. I have it on Xbox and it has trouble freezing if I go huge map with all the city states and civs.

[@joe19dp]

Thank you so much, I knew a lot of this but still got a lot out of this, I’m trying to play a super hard game of conquest threw flipping city’s with loyalty (for fun cuz why not lol) and understanding the population part was missing in my understanding fully so that was awesome and having a list of different things that effect loyalty. Also didn’t realize how effective chopping was, gonna try that next game! Thanks

[@stevebarrett5110]

@9:30 the mechanics of calculating loyalty pressure there is a random "+10".. @11:00 you explain pop loyalty that settling adds +10. Isn't this the +10 taken in the calculation at 9:30? And therefore not the -1 LPT mentioned at 11:00

[@BarokaiRein]

This system completely destroyed the game for me for a while. Then at some point I just kinda figured it out and then I never had to even think about it so the system might as well not exist at all. So it's a system that will simply fuck you over at first and then shortly after it's so trivial that it might as well not even be there. What a great and important mechanic! However it is kinda hilarious to see an entire group of best units in the entire era just pop up out of nowhere instantly if a city flips.

[@donlekrosan4291]

I can't even take a city with this expansion, I have to raze it and would you look at that everyone denounced me instantly even if they were friendly

[@BoshBerry]

Try moving a governor to the city as soon as you take it. Also repair/build monument as the first thing you do after you take it

[@anthony-joewaked5139]

And Victor generates by default something like 4 loyalty per turn in nearby cities

[@stefanstoyanov7460]

So I took a city from Montezuma and the game said it will rebel in 4 turns! What in hell I'm supposed to do in order to stop this? Naturally it rebelled, I took it back and this time it gave me just 2 turns to rebel... The city population dropped to 1 but still pulls 2 swordsmen and a crossbow unit! I should be able to hold the city with my sheer military presence alone until the unrest subsides. Did I mentioned that all this debacle dropped me out of my golden age? This mechanic makes sense in theory but the execution is poorly done. No wonder this expansion has negative reviews on Steam.

[@sajanpatel4956]

This seems like your own fault. Generally, establishing a governor is helpful. Depending on the proximity to other cities, the cities will obviously rebel faster.

[@thesaxiest]

@@sajanpatel4956 I established a governor in a city that I recaptured from another empire but I still couldn't keep it. I had no possible way to gain MY city back and that's really not fair. It also makes it impossible to conquest an entire empire because the cities you won will unavoidably revolt and kill your momentum

[@andrewulrich5570]

Dang I wanted to try using Eleanor of England and use her court of love to flip cities but this is so confusing it’s insane

[@RMCbreezy]

Whats confusing? You try to have your cities close, pump great works and culture and youll flip cities as eleanor. Plain and simple

[@jacobwong9687]

Bruh I've been searching for an hour for this

[@DerCent161]

Lol really? It Was my first result

[@jacobwong9687]

@@DerCent161 lol I mean in general not the specific video lol

[@DerCent161]

@@jacobwong9687 oh yea my bad haha

[@jacobwong9687]

@@DerCent161 it's fine lol

[@therealpyromaniac4515]

okay but how do you get a city to convert to yours using loyalty?

[@veketal]

Timestamp(s) (I made these for myself) Loyalty calculator somewhere around 9:00

[@lawrencecelestino3444]

Spain's loyalty mechanics don't look like much, but they're extremely potent when settling or conquering cross-continent. Basically, they're the best cross-continental invaders. Colonial Offices Policy will give you +3, having the city be in your majority religion will be another +3, and adding a Mission next to the City Center will add +2. Put Amani in for a beach head and you're looking at +10 Loyalty at any city within 9 tiles of your beach head city, and +8 for cities beyond that. Basically, Philip can invade and hold cities better than Shaka or Cyrus, so long as it's not on his home continent, and you're in the midgame with the Exploration Civic and other cards active. It bears mentioning that Shaka also needs Mercenaries to get his war machine rolling, and his Impi ultimately won't hit as hard as Philip's Conquistadors.

[@Tsass0]

Are u going to up date this wen "Gathering Storm" expansion and Civ VI updates are released in Feb. 2019 as the chop stratagem will no longer be an option?

[@HS-wn7km]

Very well explained. Excellent job!

[@QcCuber4]

Hey man, really good content.

[@TheSaxyGamer]

Thanks!

[@QcCuber4]

I had a showerthought today. Are you going to do a video about amenities and how they work? Trading in this game is so unintuitive in how the ressources affect your cities.

[@TheSaxyGamer]

That happens to be the next one in progress haha

[@Dude1565]

It seems like culture take over in civ rev 1. When your culture is booming and causes another city to become yours. Well for console players that went from 1 straight to 6.

[@askialee652]

bread and circus, it does not seam to help take a city.

[@TheSaxyGamer]

Yeah, I'm not too sure how it works exactly due to how poorly the in-game descriptions portray everything. I've heard the possibility that it only provides loyalty to your cities, and no pressure to foreign cities, but I can't necessarily confirm or deny that claim. It definitely can help keep one of your cities loyal though.

[@FlishonyanKing]

I've personally used it to flip a city once, but it doesn't do it quickly at all. I guess if the city was already falling it would help, but it's not very good at it. I needed two bread and circuses going at the same time to flip one city in the desert.

[@retro_gamer_uk]

Saxy Gamer... use the force... loyalty! Use loyalty!

[@lostwizard]

This is an interesting spelling for "governor". Last I checked, there was no "u" in governor (in either spelling system).

[@TheSaxyGamer]

Haha, it is an alternate form, but it is pretty much an obsolete one nowadays. I put u's in words like colour and governour because its one of those things that I thought was cool and hipster back in the middle school days and have not been able to break the habit now XD.

[@lostwizard]

"Colour" really does have a "u" in it in most of the world so I dunno how much hipster cred that really nets. "Governour", though, really is obsolete and most people will likely regard it as a spelling error (if they notice at all).

[@kayvee256]

Wocher talkin' but guv? O'curse there's a 'u' in guvna!

[@redlinerer]

Fun fact, the only reason alot of words are missing the u is because in usa if you wanted something printed back in the day on a press you paid by the letter, so instead of spelling it properly they just started taking letters out of words. Words with u are not obsolete, America is, just look at their primitive obsession with the imperial system lol

[@assurnasirpaliii6827]

@@redlinerer No, we have Noah Webster to credit for that (yes, THAT Noah Webster, of _Webster's Dictionary_ fame), and the US Customary (*not* Imperial! those are British!) units are good if you are a merchant (base 12 or 16 is actually pretty great for dividing things up, 10 is crap for that), though they are admittedly complete sh*t for calculation, I'll give you that.

[@etiennejulius1179]

Thank you so much for this. 🙏🙏

[@TuringMachine001]

I'm confused. At 11:03, don't you have to add 10 to the FRIENDLY PRESSURE? Namely the 10 from the formula PRESSURE = (P1 + P2 + ... + PN) + 10 at 7:00.

[@warlordofvideogameglitches]

I have a city that flips to my civilization until 15 turns then they rebel then they join again for no reason which i am asking myself wtf. I can't fix their amenities so i am fixing this to keep this settlement.

[@nenad632]

Did u played with zombie mode on? It is very hard to secure city loyalty in that mode

[@PeachBeef]

Really great vids man

[@editsonimovie8681]

23:00 the æ is pronounced like a in ash or ass

[@piececake5820]

Or an ä in german

[@editsonimovie8681]

@@piececake5820 ya

[@jimmalone4309]

Seriously this is like the most interesting way to teach people maths lol

[@anthony-joewaked5139]

I also noticed that nearby great works generate loyalty pressure. I played a game with Phoenicia and I declared war against French Eleanor of Aquitaine. I expected to be able to take 3 cities (I attacked them for strategic resources) but even with policies and governors these would still flip pretty fast so I checked the city infos and read that nearby great works were generating French loyalty pressure against my newly-taken cities so I had to take 6 cities instead of 3 to keep them together

[@user-jr3xx2hh4d]

That is Eleanor's unique ability

[@anthony-joewaked5139]

K Mm Thanks for the rectification

[@macsburke271]

There's also a special alliance which makes the two allied civs exert no loyalty on each other, isn't there?

[@TheSaxyGamer]

Yes, Cultural Alliances make it so that you and your ally exert no loyalty pressure on each other.

[@amelliamendel2227]

@@TheSaxyGamer Good to know, waiting on the alliances video and the spies video too

[@djdavisiscool]

Is GS the same ?

[@zacharyfreeman8579]

Im running a campaign with the Civ that starts with the warcarts on a smaller map and every other civ spawned around me. First 10 turns I took over Cleopatras city with one cart then Spain got eliminated because they settled to close to my capital so I got theirs. Hands down best run I've had thus far

[@RMCbreezy]

Sumeria with Gilgamesh

[@alanschuster242]

I was in a heroic age. My city had a population of 2. pressure from nearby citizens was .2. I then went into a Dark Age and pressure from nearby citizens became - 20. I lost 20 loyalty per turn simply by going from a heroic age to a Dark Age. How does that work?

[@oversgame7842]

Population generates only half of loyalty in the dark age instead of 1 loyalty per population in normal age.

[@S.V-NL]

If you capture a capital, does it still have a X2 modifier for pressure?

[@EviLNox8]

So is the reality that you can't actually go negative 20 because even if you settle on a -20 tile, your own city will be giving you +10 therefore the max you can really have is - 10?

[@kingpietro1279]

do'nt like this mechanic they should have made loyalty depend on you're tourisme presaure like in civ 5 but extended and cause cities to flip to free cities when low tourisme.

[@trysam6952]

Idk if you mentioned it but 2 civilizations that have a cultural alliance do not exert pressure on each other... Saved my ass once after a world congress meeting where they decided to reduce my loyalty...

[@ERRORrothe]

Thanks for the guide. The fact that a governor instantly grants the loyalty bonus is the stupidest game mechanic for me, because with it the whole system can be completely undermined and governors are available so early and so numerous that it makes no sense at all to want to work actively with the loyalty mechanic.

[@kpounder4908]

Like how you show the “fist” revolt icon on the thumbnail 😂

[@RedTopProductions]

I'm new to Civ 6 in general, just started today but been playing the Civ games for years.. but so far I find the Loyalty system to be very obnoxious and not fun. There should be some sort of delay or buffer of the loyalty effects... it's not fun to have a city I just founded, within 1 turn it starts to revolt and drop loyalty, even with a governor assigned... it seemingly doesn't even give you a chance to build loyalty unless you follow the game's strict list of arbitrary rules for how their Loyalty mechanics function. My initial impressions are this is a Game Breaking feature, it seems to remove the ability for planning your establishments ahead of time from a geographic logistics standpoint... which is half the point of a game based around Choosing your Establishments strategically and building them up!

[@wasecurity1]

I agree. The loyalty or lack of loyalty mechanic needs to be nerfed a bit. It makes starting settlements in distant strategic locations unsustainably impossible. The game already has factors which make remote cities difficult as it is.

[@RedTopProductions]

@@wasecurity1 I agree entirely, there was a lot of scouting and resource planning and risk taking involved with a good remote outpost project, not to mention the ongoing logistics of keeping them properly supplied and protected when it takes 10-20+ turns just for parties to travel between locations... but this update seems to squelch All of that significantly, and all the fun that came with it.

[@ryanwakebradtelle8682]

I thought it would be a good idea to put a new city in between three cities and two Nations, and I thaught a goviner and a bunch military units would keep I'll loyal. I've got less than 10% loyalty I would big I can get it back

[@ryanwakebradtelle8682]

I thought about cleaning the city in the only empty spot next to it, maybe that would have helped.

[@almor2445]

Last night I captured and recaptured Washington DC 5 times because it kept rebelling! In the end I just wiped out every other American city and they finally gave up but it was pretty annoying because free cities kept appearing with a new up to date militia to fight.

[@VHVDRAGON]

I have a city that is (so far) impossible to hold. But at one point my loyalty was good. But after I started improving (added a rail road). My loyalty dropped. Is this accurate, or did I miss something...

[@Diamond0dust]

no sound?

[@Isengardtom]

Very Interesting Thank you :)

[@TheSaxyGamer]

Thanks!

[@arthena2130]

You did not mention that monument provides 2 loyalty per turn I think.

[@mithril333]

yes, it's in the 'others' section, but they are only +1

[@Arthurt120]

Can you forcibly flip loyalty from the last city of a Civ? I mean suppose there is 1 remaining city, can I send 3 rock bands and set this city Loyalty to 0 (via the -40 Loyalty promotion)?

[@karimashmawy987]

Ive never experienced this loyalty thing! Even though i play domination! How to activate it?

[@NautilusXO]

You need to purchase the Rise and Fall expansion, and enable it when you create a new game.

[@huntercoff]

Is rise and fall a dlc because I want to do the annex the world challenge but I'm a broke boi so if it is a dlc how much does it cost pls respond

[@veketal]

You have access to KZbin but not to internet where you can check the price?

[@DakotaDuncancheerwine01]

Great video. Just one thing though. "Victoria's not that good." Care to take that to the bank? ;p

[@LeeRaldar]

I think a spy can help lower morale.

[@gunitinug]

i'll try to attack multiple cities at the same time. thx for the tip! ;)

[@ramondegraaf1117]

Is loyalty also included if i don’t have the dlc’s?

[@barretx]

no my friend, it just appeared in the expansion rise and fall =)

[@ramondegraaf1117]

Christopher Vega thanks!

[@xarmanhskafragos2516]

Should i buy the dlc?

[@jackiworld]

gatherring storm is a must for the game

[@finalchapter24k]

Did Fireaxis give you a salary?

[@amelliamendel2227]

scouts count as a garrisoned unit

[@funnelvortex7722]

My loyalty with experience be like: City: (perfectly loyal) Tornado hits neighboring city City: RAH RAH RAH POWER TO THE PEOPLE RAH RAH RAH DEATH TO THE STATE RAH RAH RAH VIVA LA REVOLUTION RAH RAH RAH Me: ...

[@keisari3267]

Thanks!

[@markknape4343]

I find no way to keep my 'across sea' colonies, they rebel before pop increases or buildings are built. Governors don't give enough loyalty to keep them either.

[@jessewood3196]

Great video as always. I'm about to purchase Rise & Fall but I've heard rumors that it has been causing addware.. or whichever of the infamous 'wares' to computers when downloaded from Steam. Has anyone from the SaxyGamer community noticed these types of issues? Thanks in advance!

[@vdub2002]

Jesse Wood everything has adware. KZbin, Facebook, your phone, your tv source. All of it.

[@LubovMike]

Know a bit late, but can anyone help me understand how to determine what age are AI civs in? Or is it only Dev's perk? Thank a lot!

[@TheSaxyGamer]

It will say in the ages dropdown menu in the top right. It'll show a little icon by each leader portrait as to what age they are in. It also does this at the start of each era when the popup comes up to choose your dedications.

[@LubovMike]

Thank you a lot! Trying to win on diety with just loyalty).

[@davedarosa9949]

I’m just getting stated to Civ 6 on the consoles. Should I wait and get used to the game a lil bit before getting this dlc? Or should I just hop right in with it all?

[@LucidWolf88]

Play the vanilla game for a while. If you enjoy it, get the dlc

[@jameshoffman7450]

I’m new don’t got dlc and I haven’t finished a game for 2 days. I keep restarting bc idk if I’m playing right but I’m learning a little bit everyday

[@Jellybean23119]

Dave Darosa Definitely get to know standard first, I’m doing the same and now that I can manage to win on immortal standard I’m moving up to rise and fall

[@yqisq6966]

Loyalty is op lol I had a game on Deity with Mongols spamming cities but then after I entered a Heroic Age I found out that all those cities are losing loyalty lol. Then I basically put all my resources including governers and spies to annex these cities... and even tookover Monglia's capital this way xD I feel kinda bad because this is basically what America does to the Middle East... stirring unrest and then take over.

[@sk2790]

15:25 did you mean occupancy?

[@KuriusOranj]

Governour? Why the "u"?

[@FireRupee]

Canadian spelling.

[@matthewgibson630]

Quick note, Æthelflæd was a woman. I haven't looked close enough when playing, but I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't notice. Also æ is pronounced like a in Apple. Cheers :)

[@jimwhite2049]

Guess they didn't want to step on an outrage landmine and do loyalty base on religion huh? Despite how much effect religion has on loyalty and tribalism historically.

[@TheSaxyGamer]

It was likely just an oversight when they first introduced the system. Religion does affect loyalty in the current version of the game but that was added in the patch after this video was made.

[@yqisq6966]

America: freeeeedom for allllllll then after a few turns, take over.

[@laxxboy20]

who said we wouldn't need algebra?

[@iwtd6]

*Pacifist Domination Victory*

[@stormchaseref3628]

I want to see examples in gameplay. not a slide show.

[@karimashmawy987]

How to appoint a governor!!

[@christopherarnold3844]

Gut gud folks!

[@loopuleasa]

please please add timestamps like other videos excellent content

[@sancaster473]

Lol the whole point of watching this video was to see how I could win back my city by loyalty

[@rjmills126]

Great stuff. Didn’t mention spies creating unrest though

[@Shywer]

I could not make peace without give the AI the city back -.-

[@Skorpi00007]

Why is there not many offensive loyal pressure bonus building or policies?

[@TheSaxyGamer]

I'm not really sure, but I really wish that there were more. I think it could be a super cool mechanic if you could go about a "loyalty war" and try to aggressively flip your neighbor's cities.

[@mmartata]

Theres one thing I don't get. Why are neutral territories that are far from your empire -20 loyalty? Isnt loyalty only postive and negative? what affects a tile with no cities in 9 tiles around it so it has -20 loyalty if I settle there

[@warcriminalyes]

Golden age. Also population pressure radiate from 9 squares from your border.

[@michaelboucher1023]

So if I use a settler to settle on a -8 loyalty hex and dispatch a governor there, the new city should remain loyal to me? I'm trying to ask when is it "safe" to settle on a minus loyalty tile. Keep in mind I can't hear any voiceovers and are only going by the text on the screen.

[@TheSaxyGamer]

Actually, you're able to settle on up to a -10 tile and still be safe, even without a governor! If the tile was -10, then then enemy pressure would equal 10, and once your city is settled, friendly pressure would also equal 10 (1pop*(10-0)). This means ratio would equal 1, so poployalty would be (1-1)*10 = 0, so you'd be very close to going negative, but still technically safe.

[@michaelboucher1023]

The Saxy Gamer wow thanks! That was very helpful, can't wait to try it out in my next game

[@TheSaxyGamer]

Awesome, glad I could help!

[@alexkilgour1328]

Also, if you can afford to buy a monument when you build your city, then you have an extra +1. Also, if you are using any policy cards that boost, you can factor those in.

[@alexkilgour1328]

Also forgot, if you know you have surplus amenities, for every +1 amenity above the required amount, you get +3 loyalty.

[@PorknBeansss]

tf what is this a calculus class

[@vortraz2054]

Firstly you didnt mention wether or not LPT above 20 reduces incoming pressure. If it does, then youd have to reduce a cities loyalty by TEN TIMES their pop per turn and this system is broken to shit and does nothing For my next more practical than you provide example, Secondary cities reach the LPT cap at 2 pop, or 4 during a dark age. Meaning nearly any city is able to negate pressure from a four pop city which is only 5 tiles away, at 7 tiles away this negates all pressure from a city up to 7 pop, and other flat loyalty increases are FAR FAR FAR more common than other flat bonuses to pressure. Meaning realistically it takes pressure from about TRIPLE a cities population or more to flip a city Which simply means that the only impact the loyalty system has in game is you cant settle new cities as close to other civs. Its an ineffective weapon even against players that arent actively defending from it, it only harms players that royally fuck up