Civilization vs. Barbarism: Ongoing Analysis of the Hamas War on Israel

In this episode of New Ideal Live, Elan Journo, Onkar Ghate, Nikos Sotirakopoulos, and Tal Tsfany discuss the recent developments in the ongoing conflict between Israel and Hamas. They assess the cultural significance of Hamas' aggression and methods, the theocratic nature of the movement, and how Western reactions have been either impotent or, worse, encouraging violence against Israel.
Among the topics covered:
• What makes Hamas' aggression tragically significant;
• Tsfany's experience of how the conflict has drastically escalated over the last decades;
• How terrorism became a deliberate strategy of the Palestinian movement;
• How U.S. leaders evaded the religious nature of Hamas;
• The Biden Administration’s lack of moral clarity;
• The fact that Hamas and its Western apologists share the same irrational ideas;
• The academic rejection of capitalism as proof of their destructive motives;
• What a Hamas government would look like if it wiped out Israel;
• The Iranian protesters as the only real hope for positive change in the Middle East;
• Whether Hamas can be completely separated from the Palestinian people.
Mentioned in this podcast and relevant to the discussion are Elan Journo’s What Justice Demands (t.ly/H9aVY) and ARI’s resources on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict (newideal.aynrand.org/aris-res...)
The podcast was recorded on October 11, 2023.
0:00:00 Introduction
0:02:44 The significance of Hamas’ aggression
0:07:49 Tsfany’s experience regarding the conflict
0:16:23 Terrorism of the Palestinian movement
0:24:45 U.S. leaders’ evasion of Hamas’ nature
0:34:46 Biden’s lack of moral clarity
0:40:40 Irrational ideas behind Hamas and their apologists
0:58:05 Academic rejection of capitalism
1:02:06 What a Hamas government would look like
1:03:20 The Iranian protesters as a real hope
1:05:25 Can Hamas be separated from Palestinians

[@jonathancross781]

A well aimed investigation of the foundations of the misplaced criticisms and attacks on the good in favor of the backward and barbarous bad that unfortunately permeate western thought and policy. Keep up the good and necessary work.

[@TeaParty1776]

Tsfany's experience of 1980s, Gaza storekeepers welcoming Israeli soldiers(!) as protectors of their rights is bizarre given the current war. This needs to be widely known.

[@ahappyimago]

The Gaza average birth rate was 8 kids per woman at that time too

[@TeaParty1776]

@@ahappyimago context?

[@ahappyimago]

@@TeaParty1776 I’m not sure. I think they were relatively prosperous at that time

[@ahappyimago]

@@TeaParty1776 but I also read it was demographic/political way to undermine Israel

[@factchecker6674]

In our echo chamber info wars, forget about it.

[@debbiemail1]

Thank you for a very helpful discussion. I noticed that non of the speakers discuss the other element in the mix. It's the oldest and most popular hate know to civilisation - the hatred of the Jew. The only way to understand the way things are is to acknowledge that this hatred of Jews (for whatever reason) has been the back drop of the history of civilisation. Israel has to win this war or the world will pay the price one day.

[@esauseven]

Very few retain awareness of the fundamental spiritual context, the war between the descendants of Ishmael and those of Isaac. This is spiritual blindness.

[@Peaceshiet812]

Agreed !

[@TheJustinJ]

Ishmael is a fictitious character who is relative to no group of Arab people. That is literally a fable from the Koran that has been disproven both by religious scholars and science itself. Israel, that is Abrahamic people were and are people from the land of Canaan. Canaanite's are also known by their Greek name, Phoenicians. They have the oldest written language ("phonetic") which is, practically speaking, a form of Egyptian short-hand. One, they, Israel is a spin-off society of Canaan. And their God of the old testament is a hybrid of Ra and Molek (The original King of Kings predating Abraham and Moses' pentateuch including Genesis itself by several thousand years). Just because that part of the world has the eldest written documents does not make it true or factually correct. The ancient scriptures show a radically different and more violent and hate filled god. Jesus simply blended Platoism and Eastern ways together. "Live for the afterlife" golden rule, etc. are all borrowed from other sources 400+ years earlier. And God the father morphs into a blend of Greek gods, mercy, justice, love, etc are completely unmentioned and not practiced or valued in the old testament until after Alexander the great and the spread of Greek culture comes into the picture. The UN royally messed up giving the jews Jerusalem. It was inevitable to be an enormous issue. They should have given them part of Germany and Poland. In an economically viable and reasonably pro-wester western area. Now its just Hate from ignorant islamists who hate modern western values that bring such things as you know, everything under the sun of value.

[@gregjones1537]

Nickos at .36 hit the nail on the head, we need to face the truth with courage and reality. Well said Nikos. Great episode Guys.

[@TeaParty1776]

The top modern philosopher, Kant, created an intellectually powerful rationalization of the unfocused mind. Recall "Peace in our time."

[@truthache8560]

There can be no forgiveness for this. Long live Israel.

[@smokydogy]

The lord offers everlasting forgiveness and salvation. SO SAYS YAHWEH, GOD OF ARMIES

[@nomasterabovemenoslavebelo3628]

The illegitimate criminal state! Scum of the earth, Zionism is a plague!

[@readtherealanthonyfaucibyr6444]

But so many of them in the US were spies for the Soviets and they sell US military tech to the CCP, while also acting like they're a part of Europe. Close ties with almost everyone? hmm

[@truthache8560]

@@tomac100 He cut off a baby’s head? No? Then don’t compare.

[@FourLightsOfficial]

​@@truthache8560that didn't happen. But I'll gladly wait for you to bring forth a name if you have one...😂 No? I didn't think so.

[@ryam4632]

The Ayn Rand Institute is expressing the judgment of Justice and History with a clear voice. Thank you from Israel, for all that you do!

[@ryam4632]

@@tomac100 Objectively.

[@ryam4632]

@tomac100 Begin by first checking multiple sources about those events - not only the ones that confirm your preconceived judgments. Then, ask whether other facts known about Israel support the idea that it is hostile to the US or that it is a terrorist state - or whether those evens are not characteristic of Israel, supposing for the sake of the argument that they are as you claim them to be (and they are not, to my knowledge.) Lastly, define your standards about these matters broadly and only then apply them to Israel's specific case.

[@MsElke11]

Was ayn rand even religious??

[@Able-Man]

​@@MsElke11¿Atlas Shrugged?

[@TheJustinJ]

@@MsElke11No. Rand was an Objectivist. The Original. And Her stance was that anyone who arbitrarily claims some higher power must provide the burden of proof that can withstand the scrutiny of reason itself. Failure to do so warrants rejection as an arbitrary, baseless claim.

[@michaeljohn7398]

One of the more Intelligent Articulate Discussion so far. Cheers from Michael. Australia.

[@kurisari1937]

“Reducing the culpability of the aggressor” is a disastrous trend in the west and I’d love to hear your analyses on how, when, and why this trend gained such huge appeal.

[@Mr.Witness]

Philosophy. Vietnam? 1960s? . Altruism and Egalitarianism.

[@sa9861]

Very interesting discussion; and such a joy to listen to people expressing ideas and opinions without shouting over and interrupting each other.

[@nestorze]

Kyiv was all covered by Israeli flags. Together we stand!

[@coolcatsrthebest4056]

Wow. People needs to hear this…

[@BenyaminMentchale]

A very good discussion and analysis.

[@libelasilva]

Great conversation. Thanks 👍🏻

[@Able-Man]

Thanks so much, for this HEALTHY DOSE OF CLARITY!!!

[@FranciscoChile]

❤ Love for Israel and the ARI!

[@deepreading6615]

5 Questions: 1. How many Jews live in Palestine or elsewhere in the Arab world? 2. What rights are those Jews afforded in the Arab world? 3. How many Arabs or other minorities live in Israel and of these, how many have held prominent positions in business, finance, politics, sports? Is there an equivalent that exists for minorities in the Arab world? 4. Can a Jew in Israel convert to Islam and continue to have legal right as an Israeli citizen? 5. Is the same 'freedom of religion' available to Palestinians in Gaza or Arabs in the Arab world?

[@roguedisciple5961]

I wish ARI had commented on the injustices rendered upon Armenia by Azerbaijan and Turkey. Armenia is very similar to Israel.

[@maribbens]

I hope your family stays safe, Tal.😢

[@user-ne1bv1mi7w]

Why were these Israelis so defenseless? You would think that living within a couple miles of Gaza, they would have a safe full of M16 rifles and the capability to use them. They might have been able to hold the murderous Hamas killers until the IDF arrived. Also, I was surprised to learn that gun ownership in Israel is only 2% of the population versus 30% in the United States.

[@benchapple1583]

I have a feeling that that will change pretty fast.

[@victorferguson874]

Emblematic of the stupid leftism that has swept over Isreal--and the rest of the Western world. Too bad they are learning the follies of their thinking the hard way.

[@esauseven]

One of the critical lessons that should come from this but there is zero discussion of this in MSM as usual.

[@kirkl9370]

@@razcohen5590did Hamas give the citizens of Gaza a “right to bear arms”? I imagine that wouldn’t do much against bombs but perhaps similar to the notion of 2nd amendment rights if a “well regulated militia” in the US.

[@torpedodropkick59]

Maybe that will change!

[@hieronymusbosch9421]

Nikos makes some great points at 55 minutes

[@nickolasgaspar9660]

lol Nikos?

[@Islamophobiaisalie]

You are all amazing. Thank you for your knowledge!

[@exnihilonihilfit6316]

3:50 More like 13 times. Israel: almost 10 million USA: 330 million people (so 33 times Israel) Death toll currently: 1200 Death toll 9/11: 3000 1200 x 33 = 39600 killed, which is over 13 times 3000

[@readtherealanthonyfaucibyr6444]

That's how percentages work with any small country. It's Israel's "9/11" as in their own false flag in order to pass certain legislation (9/11 and the Patriot Act) or get a war going.

[@netaji-thebritishslayer]

It was done by members of idf!!

[@anitamurkes9511]

@@netaji-thebritishslayer 18:51 Such a ridiculous statement !

[@ernestbeserra5485]

You know witnessing All the immorallness I can see the right of Israel to defend and survive. I am a U. S. Marine Veteran and I disdain the oppression of Life, Liberty and Pursuit of Happiness for Good against Evil.. I truly wish Israel Victory and the Best Fight for it all. Do Not Loose Your True Moral Fortitude and Convictions in Christ's ways for Righteousness and Freedom. I Believe God. Just like Abraham did. Wish you All Well. Peace Out!

[@TeaParty1776]

This is a fight to the death between the rationally individualist West and its enemies. The religious and Leftist enemies of the West are morally confident. The defenders of the West are not. Atlas Shrugged-Ayn Rand

[@Graham-mv6zo]

I'm shocked at how many people can be so against israel when they were attacked

[@FourLightsOfficial]

Exactly. Hamas did a apartheid. What did they think was gonna happen😂? When you do apartheid this thing happen! They shouldn't be surprise😂🤣😂

[@FourLightsOfficial]

Hamas even criminalise people collecting rainwater. What kind of monsters do this? It's sick!

[@boron555]

Great discussion

[@user-zt5bk4zh8i]

Very well said, Niko..!!

[@ninasteininger6790]

To the point 👍🙏

[@micchaelsanders6286]

6:30 Yes! Onkar is absolutely right. Must make Into a short clip.

[@veronicaarmitage6363]

Thank you for your interesting and enlightening video.❤❤❤

[@kmeisenbach1]

Religion ruins everything.

[@jasonmitchell7550]

Which atheist countries are you most proud of?

[@thomasalbert7303]

Lack of religion may be doing more harm

[@beverlyallison4768]

Human nature ruins, everything people are bad

[@sshhlisten]

True for many. However those would be the blind brainwashed followers. At the root you would find sdlfish evil psychopathtic individuals who use religion as a tool to achieve their means. Without the element of religion, they would find some other way to carry out their evil plans.

[@pitzkale]

I'd argue it's religion and Communism with Islam leading by a mile on the religious front.

[@Betcaligarcia]

Sorry I’m a Christian and I know what Islam is hello 🙄I’ve dived deep into their teachings I agree with “policy” change

[@user-zt5bk4zh8i]

Breakdown of Peace and Order is where they went wrong!

[@jinniyamciver-mq3np]

Someone never forgiving our forefathers who were strongly believed in Creations and their Crestor for got us out off dark ages.

[@spencermorris5873]

G-d bless Israel 🇮🇱

[@mariehavlickova4702]

❤❤❤

[@Valeman7689]

They could always reopen the Oslo Accord. Now Mr Arafat has gone perhaps Hamas could replace him. 2 State solution wanted by Yasser Arafat and Mahmoud Abbas. When Arafat and Mahmoud Abbas, the head of the Palestinian Authority, spoke of their support for a two-state solution, they actually envisioned two Arab states: one in the West Bank and Gaza, and another one to replace Israel.

[@MrGuitarman8000]

The fighters have everyone around them so scared.. Hamas fighters tell innocent people when what where not why or how to talk move, think , and be free , and how service them.

[@FourLightsOfficial]

Exactly. Hamas even made it illegal for people to collect rainwater! Look it up! What kind of sick monsters would prevent people from even collecting rainwater!? It's beyond inhumane!

[@milenacontreras8690]

Please answer this question: WHO ARE GIVING OR SELLING GUNS TO THE TERRORISTS? Thank you for your answer.

[@yehudahecht1520]

It all started with the disasterous Oslo Accords.....

[@milenacontreras8690]

@@yehudahecht1520 Yehudahecht, thank you for your answer. I will read it and see who signed it. 🙇‍♀️🕊🦉

[@artnull13]

@@milenacontreras8690Hamas admitted in public that Iran and Russia have been selling guns and weapons to them - there’s your answer.

[@simchalebovitch6944]

Nowadays, Iran, Russia and I don't know who else.

[@RobbbbM-qk3ei]

Is it blue shirts day or something?

[@ladyjade6446]

You can’t morally justify hamas.

[@micchaelsanders6286]

57:30

[@micchaelsanders6286]

1:03:10 Iran and freedom

[@noelajones619]

People should read “The Critical Q’ran” by Robert Spencer, to find out why Islam is all about terror.

[@jinniyamciver-mq3np]

You mentioned evangelicals, don’t stop go further.

[@allenbrininstool7558]

They will be judged soon Ezekiel 38

[@sky4you2b]

The Rallies weren’t for Hamas , The Rallies were in support of the people of Palestine that were being victims of 6:20 genocide perpetrated by the government of Israel .

[@thomasalbert7303]

CRT

[@1voluntaryist]

Waring governments, does NOT automatically mean a good guy/bad guy scenario. Governments play mind (war) games, "the long con". The psychopaths who started the wars are long dead, but the system lives on, directed by the political heirs of coercive politics. The details, the history, the players, the "right/wrong" is lost and doesn't matter because we are not morally bound by the mistakes of our ancestors. Customs can be destructive, even when adopted worldwide, as "The Most Dangerous Superstition" by Larken Rose. We are born sovereign, i.e., equal politically, all having the same rights, even when we have been convinced otherwise. We can still claim our rights anytime, still "come to our senses" and think for ourselves, e.g., reject the politics of coercion, i.e., the rejection of reason, rights, choice by the initiation of force, threats, fraud. It happens, rarely, but it happens. Gandhi talked the Indians into boycotting the British Empire without violence, by simply convincing them to stop obeying British governors. The British subjects in N. America boycotted the Empire's rule by secession, beginning to self-govern locally, e.g., "The Minute Men", the Continental Congress. All governments are unnecessarily based on coercive politics. They could govern with respect for reason, rights, choice, first/foremost. NONE do! Therefore, there are no "good guys" vis-a-vie governments.

[@LenSklogW]

To find analogs for this moment (Hamas emergent), you have to go back to the primitive. Assyrians were finally defeated by their neighbors after the pure practical disgust with this behaviour. Barbarism is not the purvue of the individual, it is a gangsta world of the primitive Strong Man and Witch Doctor, arbiters of power in the age of the irrational. What you describe does not exist and is a fiction of anti-intellectual Western nonsense. Nobody in the Medieval East would understand or even recognize your line of disconnected dogma.

[@1voluntaryist]

@@LenSklogW All actions, by one or one million, are "the purview of the individual". The "age of the irrational" still exists, and humanity will find a way toward an "age of reason" or perish. Ayn characterized Eastern society as "mystic", i.e., anti-intellectual, superstitious, and her reason for leaving Russia. That does not preclude the existence of a rational, or at least more so than the average Eastern Medieval person from existing. It was an Arab who translated Aristotle, saving about 25%, all that is left. Did thet person understand the importance of his work? We don't know, but if he did, even a little, then he would have understood my "Western nonsense", my refutation of the "collective consciousness" that is used to explain/justify authoritarianism. See: "The Virtue of Selfishness" to find the complete argument for individualism.

[@LenSklogW]

@@1voluntaryist Interesting, but I disagree in your interpretations generally. I've been there, walked away in disgust a decade ago (?) except for a few 'economists'. Now I am being entertained too much by people who have varied nuanced and more informed views that align with mine. I go back to OPAR. Actually into quanti right now, but this 'manifest primitive' brought me back for a look.

[@TeaParty1776]

Theres a report that the US warned Israel 3 days before the war. Thats difficult to understand.

[@kevinmcfarlane2752]

Egypt. But Israel denies it.

[@simchalebovitch6944]

Also Egypt warned them.

[@rigelbound6749]

This has to do with the extremely corrupt, immoral and traitorous leadership our country currently has at the helm. Netanyahu likes having a powerful threat to rally his voters against.

[@internetmail3888]

Who is more UNobjective and unjust than a person who has a blind eye for the collective imprisonment and punishment of MILLIONS of civilians?

[@sshhlisten]

You would quickly change your mind if you were on the receiving end of their terror. Why dont you go to your local prison and invite all the inmates as your guests so that you can host them in your home. Better yet, go live among the palestinians before forming your opinion.

[@ladyjade6446]

Learn the facts

[@FourLightsOfficial]

​@@sshhlistenwhy were the Palestinians imprisoned though? On grounds of race and religion of course. Why are you pro concentration camp? Would you have the same attitude towards the fighters in the Warsaw ghetto or the ANC?

[@jasonmitchell7550]

Seems like you’re justifying ISIS attacks or no?

[@retromograph3893]

You forgot to mention how many Palestinian civilians died since Saturday….

[@jasonmitchell7550]

I assume you’re joking.

[@retromograph3893]

not a joking matter ....@@jasonmitchell7550

[@roncondon1475]

Tragic collateral damage of war that was instigated by Hamas/Iran However Many of the "Palestinian" civilian population in Gaza were Celebrating the massacre of Israeli citizens on 10-7-23.

[@elainetrewartha3923]

Would you have expected the Allies to have counted the deaths in WW2, in order to stop at some number? Or is it not obvious that you fight your enemy until he can no longer fight back? That is, if you want to win. And if you value the lives of your family, you want to win.

[@retromograph3893]

that's called "whataboutism", read up on it, it's even got its own Wikipedia page.@@elainetrewartha3923

[@mikeg2482]

Onkar is claiming (6:20) that people oppose the behaviors of the USA and Israel because they are acting too strongly in their own self-interest. Onkar’s claim seems irrational because there are important factual occurrences across many decades that show a distinctly different reason for peoples' negative criticisms of the USA and Israel. I am NOT noting my own opinions about each factor, but simply noting that much of the world is aware of these factors. I am saying that this worldwide awareness is a very important influence on nations and cultures developing, from their own viewpoint, a rationally justified and objectively reasonable dislike for the USA and for Israel. The United Nations Office of The High Commissioner for Human Rights has previously documented these defining concepts in their Additional Protocol 1 of the four Geneva Conventions of 1949: A group qualifies as a “national liberation movement”, and shall NOT be deemed to be “terrorists” if there is an armed conflict in which that group is exercising their right to survival and self-determination by … Fighting against colonial domination, and … Fighting against alien occupation, and … Fighting against a racist regime The international court of justice has already ruled that these three conditions are confirmed to exist in reality for the Palestinians, and those people therefore have a right to fight for their self-determination while being labeled as a national liberation movement. In direct conflict with this, Israel and the USA have repeatedly demonstrated that they refuse to accept this ruling ... they instead keep promoting their own opposing concept that Palestinians are being “terrorists”. We can notice that Onkar does not mention this as a possible key factor for the world disliking USA and Israel, even though it is a very reasonable and obvious explanation. Article 18 of the 4th Geneva Convention states that civilian hospitals organized to give care to the wounded, the sick, the affirm, and maternity cases shall at all times be protected and respected by both of the fighting parties. Violation of this is a war crime, and Israel has repeatedly stated that that they will continue to ignore and violate this law. We can notice that Onkar does not mention this as a possible key factor for the world disliking USA and Israel, even though it is a very reasonable and obvious explanation. The 1945 Nuremberg Charter states that wanton destruction of cities, towns, or villages is a war crime. Israel has repeatedly stated that they have done this and they will continue to do this. We can notice that Onkar does not mention this as a possible key factor for the world disliking USA and Israel, even though it is a very reasonable and obvious explanation. USA and Israel are signatories of the 1948 Genocide Convention, which states: Article 2A … killing members of a targeted group is a genocidal action. Israel has repeatedly stated that they have done this and they will continue to do this. We can notice that Onkar does not mention this as a possible key factor for the world disliking USA and Israel, even though it is a very reasonable and obvious explanation. Article 2B … causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of a targeted group is a genocidal action. Israel has repeatedly stated that they have done this and they will continue to do this. We can notice that Onkar does not mention this as a possible key factor for the world disliking USA and Israel, even though it is a very reasonable and obvious explanation. Article 2C … it is is a genocidal action to deliberately inflict on a targeted group living conditions that are calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part. Israel has repeatedly stated that they have done this and they will continue to do this. We can notice that Onkar does not mention this as a possible key factor for the world disliking USA and Israel, even though it is a very reasonable and obvious explanation. The world is still waiting 70 years later for a reasonable and believable explanation for why the USA financed and orchestrated an illegal coup detat in Iran in 1953. The world has observed the USA (in partnership with Israel) performing similar criminal coup detat actions in 20 to 30 additional countries during the recent 70 years. More recently in Ukraine during 2014, and also including Libya, the Philippines, Nicaragua, Chile, Pakistan, Panama, Venezuela, and many additional places. USA partners with Israel to depose or murder lawfully appointed leaders of other territories … while lying to everyone about it. We can notice that Onkar does not mention this as a possible key factor for the world disliking USA and Israel, even though it is a very reasonable and obvious explanation. The world is still waiting 30 years later for a reasonable and believable explanation for why the USA lied and broke its commitment to Russia and the world ... USA promised to never move NATO to the East of Berlin, and it has instead made this Eastward advancement on several occasions. We can notice that Onkar does not mention this as a possible key factor for the world disliking USA and Israel, even though it is a very reasonable and obvious explanation. Onkar repeatedly references the topic of 9/11. So, let’s have a look at it. EXAMPLE. The world is still waiting 20 years later for a believable reason for why Netanyahu stood in front of US Congress and lied to everyone that he is certain that Iraq has WMD’s, and this justifies invading Iraq, murdering Iraqi civilians, and establishing an alien occupation of Iraq. Netanyahu lied and there were never any WMD’s nor was there any real evidence to indicate it could be true. The world observed that the USA and Israel were lying … while committing multiple premeditated crimes against humanity. We can notice that Onkar does not mention this as a possible key factor for the world disliking USA and Israel, even though it is a very reasonable and obvious explanation. EXAMPLE. The world is still waiting 20 years later for a believable reason for why the physical wreckage of the NYC twin towers was forbidden to be professionally analyzed with scientific verification and a detailed public report about the verified chemical residues and verified materials and verified structural failures. The wreckage was instead hurriedly taken offshore to be destroyed before this proper analysis and report could occur. This is an intentional bypass of lawful requirements for investigating a crime scene. We can notice that Onkar does not mention this as a possible key factor for the world disliking USA and Israel, even though it is a very reasonable and obvious explanation. EXAMPLE. The world is still waiting 20 years later for a believable reason for the free-fall total collapse of Building 7 of the World Trade Center 8 hours after the larger towers collapsed. The BBC anchor told the world that bldg 7 had already fallen while also simultaneously showing that bldg 7 was still standing … this is lying. The bldg 7 owner admits that he instructed the fire department to intentionally bring down bldg 7 by activating a pre-wired demolition … a demolition arrangement which necessarily requires many weeks or months to install … this is more lying. All video evidence is in agreement about the physics of #7 free falling starting with the roof elements … and this directly conflicts with the bizarre official claims of small fires of unknown source occurring lower in the building and therefore causing randomly collapsing column joints which brought down the entire bldg all at once with no resistance. This is more lying. We can notice that Onkar does not mention this as a possible key factor for the world disliking USA and Israel, even though it is a very reasonable and obvious explanation. EXAMPLE. The world is still waiting 20 years later for a believable reason for why the 9/11 commission published a book that contained willfully deceptive inaccurate claims that most any structural engineer could easily reveal and debunk. This is confirmed by the fact that the same commission then said we're sorry for trying to deceive you all ... here is a second replacement book that revises many of our previous fraudulent statements … this is more lying. We can notice that Onkar does not mention this as a possible key factor for the world disliking USA and Israel, even though it is a very reasonable and obvious explanation. EXAMPLE. The world is still waiting 20 years later for a believable reason for why there was a grouping of Israeli agents arrested by police for being on-site in NYC filming the BEGINNING of the destruction of the twin towers, and they were also witnessed CELEBRATING the deaths and destruction while they were occurring. We can notice that Onkar does not mention this as a possible key factor for the world disliking USA and Israel, even though it is a very reasonable and obvious explanation. Onkar seems to hope that his audience will join him in evading and omitting these realities as being key factors. His evasion and omission of these factors conflicts with the principles of Objectivism. I repeat that I am not noting here my own opinions about USA or Israel, but I am noting that much of the world is aware of these factors. And I am saying that this worldwide awareness is a very important influence on nations and cultures developing their dislike for the USA and for Israel. Onkar's claim that the USA and Israel are not liked because they act too strongly in their own self-interest … this seems like an irrational and non-objective statement from him when we consider the full larger context of relevant facts, some of which I have described above.

[@chrisel4349]

They are delusional. It is pure selfishness that blinds their wrongs.

[@smokydogy]

If you are willing to say Hamas is evil in their FOUNDING documents then I would challenge you to go further and look at the founding documents for Israel, try getting into the Talmund if you have balls.

[@nikossotirakopoulos6876]

The founding document of Israel is the 1948 Declaration of Independence.

[@readtherealanthonyfaucibyr6444]

@@nikossotirakopoulos6876 Gee, how does a people rally to to take over a country so soon after supposedly losing half of their population a mere 5 years earlier?

[@smokydogy]

@@nikossotirakopoulos6876 Talk about tye Talmund you coward

[@Rose_Ou]

Have you studied Talmud in Yeshiva? Are you a graduate of Hebrew and Jewish studies? Or maybe you hold PhD on the subject and have publications on Talmud? If your answer is "no" then I don't think you're in any position to discuss or criticize any religious texts. Internet is filled with mythology.

[@smokydogy]

@@Rose_Ou Yes I am studying it and working on my degree. How about you make some sort of coherent argument instead of an attempt at gatekeeping and hand waving. Your text is not as in depth or nuanced as you think and everyone sees these tactics, avoidance and shaming tactics, when its called into question.

[@ranro7371]

rand was as unhinged as her seed

[@kirkl9370]

So your argument is that colonial aspirations are to be applauded. We should support any action which involves conquering indigenous “barbarians” and civilising them with modern technology. These speakers all seem to have a singular perspective, one that is contrary to the teachings of Judaism, to crush the oppressed so that the strong survive. I love the fact that the Israeli guy doesn’t even perceive the irony that he was effectively a gestapo soldier within the Gaza prison camp and was surprised by the disintegration of relations between the captives and their guards. Ayn Rand would be the first to understand that the Palestinians are just acting in their own self interest, as they have every right to do. Sure they will lose, and the US funded IDF will destroy them, but it’s got nothing to do with any worthy aspirations for freedom of the individual, it’s all being done in the name of religion! How ironic to hear that coming from the Ayn Rand institute.

[@ladyjade6446]

Get on the right side.

[@kirkl9370]

⁠@@ladyjade6446spoken like a true believer! Let God decide…

[@1voluntaryist]

Onkar: "...or your political opponent, ...well not really political...anarchist" Anarchism is the POLITICAL concept of voluntary association as opposed to the worldwide paradigm of initiation of force, threats, fraud, against innocent (non-violent) citizens. Anarchism is NO coercion, no ruler. The only other political option left would be voluntarism, i.e., rules/order by mutual consent, based on reason, rights, choice of each individual. Presently, everywhere, we have "Law", i.e., force, threats, fraud, chaos. The term "law & order" is an oxymoron, a fraud. Look around you.

[@exnihilonihilfit6316]

The threat of force, _IF_ force is initiated (e.g. you build yourself a tank), is an objective necessity. You anarchists just prove again and again that you rage against the demands of reality itself (a religious person may put it: "against God['s order]"). Like communists rage against the demand of reality to work to survive. An example would be the *need* for people to be detained for investigation if they're suspected of a crime. An anarchist moron would reflexively say, "hey, who are you (pl. or singular) to detain people?!" Another example would be the *need* to inform others who come by why you're detaining someone/using force. You can't just demand they stay away while you're beating someone in front of them. You're reactive and whim-worshipping. "NO COERCION! REEEEEEEEEEE" - The anarchist

[@TeaParty1776]

Anarchism is lynch mobs enforcing their arbitrary ideas of voluntary asociation on each other because they reject objective law.

[@marwar819]

Israel respects freedom?! Apparently only theirs. Have you heard of Palestine? Of the 60+ years of occupation?

[@equaltoreality8028]

Only being Hamas/Palestinians have been trying to wipe Israel out for 60+ years. If the Palestinians laid down their arms then there would be no need for occupation.

[@TeaParty1776]

No freedom for the initiators of force.

[@jasonmitchell7550]

Who are the initiators of force?

[@beverlyallison4768]

Israel is not teaching barbarism to their six-year-old children.

[@artnull13]

@@jasonmitchell7550Arab muslims and the Arab league - you know this buddy and what the goals of pan-Arabism are.

[@zoverlvx8094]

The cognitive dissonance to compare ISIS with Hamas is mildly humorous. The US was attacked because of its presence in the Middle East. Israel has a right to exist purely by revolutionary standards (might makes right on the global stage), but no other nation has an obligation to defend Israel for its continued incompetence to make peace with its neighbors. If we want civilization, let's stop sacrificing ourselves to the altar of Israel and the Middle East as a whole. ARI has become nothing if not an apologist organization for US/Israeli foreign policy. Do you get a percentage for every bomb dropped?

[@truthache8560]

When you cut the heads off of babies, you deserve the hell that comes. Did you forget that there were citizens from over a dozen countries INCLUDING 14 Americans slaughtered as well?

[@smokydogy]

well said friend

[@readtherealanthonyfaucibyr6444]

B...b...but they tell me it's biblical! Prophecy they say! If all you need is a missile attack in order to greenlight war with your neighbors that will be fought by other countries, then a missile attack is all but guaranteed! Who cares who let it happen or where the money and weapons came from.

[@TeaParty1776]

Israel, w/its flaws, protect individual rights. Its enemies reject indvidual rights in principle, thus their political and military power should be destroyed. Your anti-Semitism needs a rationalization thats more sleazily hidden.

[@kevinmcfarlane2752]

Your first sentence is false. They both subscribe to Islamic totalitarianism, whose goals are to subject the entire world to their interpretation of Islam. That means killing or converting the infidel. That means all non-Muslims plus the “wrong” Muslims. (They mutually disagree on the details.) For the second sentence Al Qaeda said they attacked the US for its meddling. However, they still had the long term world conquest goal anyway. It’s just that the US would have been further down the line. At the height of IS in Iraq and Syria they published Dabiq No. 15. Some of this was excerpted in Western MSM. Sam Harris in one of his podcasts went through it in some depth. But they went through a series of reasons for wanting to kill us and they explicitly said that our intervention was a lesser reason for their action. It was reason 5 or 6 or something like that. Prior to this there was an ex-Islamist in the U.K. who said their priorities were similar to IS's in that regard.

[@sreer6459]

Here civilians are Palestine people and barbarian are Israel

[@lamegalectora]

Is this Ayn Rand Institute some sort of a cult? The me-me-me cult? 😳 I’d better sneak quietly out…

[@subbukumar4068]

Please get out

[@Mang-ej5ul]

It’s more rational than the Marxist BLM cult

[@cheekygrin6258]

Not so quiet but nice try

[@chrisel4349]

Definitely seems like a cult.

[@ladyjade6446]

Bye