Wheel of Time: Complete History of the Forsaken (Spoilers Start at

[@CivilizationEx]

Support Civilization Ex through the following links: Related Ebooks, Books and Audiobooks: First Book in Series "Eye of the World": amzn.to/3iMW05d First 3 Books in Series "The Eye of the World, The Great Hunt, The Dragon Reborn" - amzn.to/3BwRIGC Complete Wheel of Time Series (14 Books) - amzn.to/2WWG9cv The World of Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time (History Book) - amzn.to/2Yy9lHt Wheel of Time Companion (History Book) - amzn.to/3iMZTa6 New Spring (Wheel of Time Prequel) - amzn.to/30e2rb5 Sign up for Audible: www.amazon.com/hz/audible/mlp/membership/plus?ref_=assoc_tag_ph_1524216631897&_encoding=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&linkCode=pf4&tag=civilizatione-20 Audible Premium Plus: amzn.to/2VWvH3M Audible Gift Membership: amzn.to/39aXBOo Kindle Unlimited: amzn.to/396vNdX Amazon USA Link: www.amazon.com?&_encoding=UTF8&tag=civilizatione-20 Amazon Canada Link: www.amazon.ca/?&_encoding=UTF8&tag=civilizatio0b-20 Patreon: www.patreon.com/civilizationex Direct Donations: www.paypal.com/donate/?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=GN2PGCU4KN2FQ&source=url Merchandise: civilization-ex-store.creator-spring.com kzbin.infostore www.civilizationex.com/store Membership: Click the Join button next to Subscribe or Click Here: kzbin.info/door/LPMbl6z7UiLFTXNvoXShEgjoin "The Thrones Effect" Available Now! Written by: GoT Academy, Civilization Ex, Because Geek, Secrets of the Citadel, Gray Area, Ideas of Ice and Fire, History of Westeros, and Smokescreen Ebook, Paperback and Audiobook: www.amazon.com/The-Thrones-Effect-Gil-Kidron-audiobook/dp/B07R7BSRQS/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=thrones+effect&qid=1606177382&sr=8-1

[@Siiimon]

Ä

[@josevillatoro9655]

Juggalos

[@faustopancake234]

Small correction, Lan does not stab Demandred in the heart, he takes his head clean off. "I did not come here to win, I came here to kill you."

[@doggus47]

I thought Lan stabbed him in the throat in the duel and the beheading took place off page.

[@frocat5163]

@@doggus47 "Demandred's eyes opened wide, and he tried to pull back. Too late. Lan's sword took him straight through the throat." Based on the way Sanderson wrote it, I could see someone arguing for either a thrust or a slash. Personally, I always envisioned a thrust, but there isn't enough information in the text to say conclusively. Regardless, Lan definitely didn't stab Demandred in the heart.

[@ninnusridhar]

One of my most favourite little things is that in AMOL Lews therin basically informs us that even if the dark one hadnt been released and the war against the dark not started, their society was on such a precipice that it would've broken down by itself and gone to civil war. Which makes sense for the pattern. Events need to occur. And the wheel weaves as the wheel wills

[@chrisgregory3063]

I think my only issue with the forsaken is that there are too many, or more accurately their stories are just not fleshed out enough. 4 of the male forsakens only motivation to become evil is that lews therins outshone them!

[@palavestraj1520]

It's like a Mean Girls club

[@facundogonza5740]

THAT is the idea. They are powerful sure (Altough it is debatable in some cases) but at the end of the day, they are still Humans. and humans ARE petty. So turning to the Shadow for petty reasons is normal.

[@mattdunn256]

Jealousy is a very powerful motivational force

[@alanbland1976]

Jealousy is a fine motivator. But having 13 heavy hitting antagonists of which only a couple really stand out is just unnecessary clutter. Besides which, they went from playing second fiddle to the dragon to playing second fiddle to Ishamael. The whole 'I became evil to be the strongest!' thing doesn't work very well when they still had no real chance of becoming the strongest.

[@numapompiilius]

Halfway through the series and the forsaken seem one dimensional so far. There hasn't been a strong villain yet. Still enjoying all the other characters despite this though.

[@diana_borcea]

The introduction is amazing, full of details, comprehensive but not too heavy. Great job, will remember this one

[@Thennix]

Very well done, read about the forsaken many times but this was an nice way of getting all their info in one place :)

[@matthewhawkins1458]

Small correction @CivilizationEx Perrin does not snap and Kill Lanfear for the final time. Lanfear used the world of dreams and tricked Perrin into thinking he had killed her. She is still free at the end of the memory of light.

[@Tr33B3ar]

Just finished reading AMOL... where did it indicate she survived? I must've missed that part.

[@matthewhawkins1458]

was revealed by brandon sanderson at the 10 year anniversary of aMOL @@Tr33B3ar

[@fabianodorer4172]

@@Tr33B3ar ther is an interviow with Branden Sandersen at the 10 aneversery where he reviels this. but he says she may not she did.

[@runningcommentary2125]

Yeah… I know Brandon said it and I’m sure Jordan intended it, but personally I just don’t buy it. I don’t think there’s enough in the text itself to support it.

[@Emanon...]

Turns out the True Power was all about the Saidin we gentled along way...

[@Numba003]

This was a fantastic stroll through the Wheel of Time baddies. Thank you. I'm now gonna have to make a point to re-read the books! Stay well out there everybody, and God bless you friends! :)

[@eerikasmith6317]

I am totally enjoying re-reading the series. More now than then. I hope you are too

[@Numba003]

@@eerikasmith6317 Unfortunately, I haven't gotten around to the re-reading yet 😅. I'm currently plowing through my book backlog with an old early sci-fi novel called "Across the Zodiac." Thank you for the well wishes though! Which book are you on?

[@JKLauderdale]

I'm on my 7th, maybe 8th re-re-read and I'm still picking up new info. Living in S Florida, this is one of the few series I've made room for on my shelves of ACTUAL books in case a storm hits and power can't be spared to charge my phone for ebooks. Other series: Dark Tower, Gap Cycle, Otherland, Belgariad+Mallorean, DL:Chronicles+Legends, Broken Empire = All excellent series to lose yourself in when the power's out and you're just waiting on repairs.

[@stevetennispro]

The Belgariad is one of my favorite older series. I've enjoyed all of David Eddings series! Have you read The Magic of Recluse by L.E. Modesitt Jr.? His books in that universe are great IMO. How about The rift war saga by Raymond E. Feist? (The first book Is Magician: Apprentice)@@JKLauderdale

[@LoneTiger]

40:20 Small correction, the Aelfinn and Eelfinn fed on 'emotion' not the One Power, despair, fear, pain, etc. The greater the emotion the greater they feasted on, also their world was called Sindhol, or at least the place inside their higher dimensional world. Keep up the great work, this video was great. 👍

[@queenofcats1]

a small add (good job btw) The Eelfinn (snakes) feed on emotions, the Aelfinn (foxes) fed on memory and got to keep them.

[@LoneTiger]

@@queenofcats1 👍

[@selitful]

Not sure that's true; after Mat rescues Moiraine, we learn that the foxes also fed on Lanfear's power and Moiraine's own power. The foxes even give Moiraine a bracelet angreal which allows for her to draw more power, so that they can have more power to feed on. After Moiraine is saved, she could barely channel a flicker without that bracelet angreal. We also learn on multiple occasions that Cyndane (Lanfear reborn) is weaker than she was before being trapped in the foxes' world. I think there's also a specific mention that the aes sedai (or channelers in general) are their favorite food, cause they feed twice from the same person (both emotions and one power).

[@LoneTiger]

@@selitful Moirane mentions that they enjoy her "despair" at losing her power (emotion) or ability to channel, remember, the ability to channel is a thing from the soul, not a body, so the snakes/foxes can tap and feed into one's soul to feed, in this case that particular ability or skill. So, looking at it this way, they are feeding upon a skill rather than the power itself.

[@brunoperugini6299]

​@LoneTiger correction to that. They do feed on the power yes, and with the person losing access to the power and becoming desperate, they also feed in those emotions of truly despair, so feeding twice from those channallers, making them theirs favorite food.

[@danielDefoe81]

How can one Human being invent such a story, such character bonds, such ... man

[@jeromecummings3609]

I still like Stormlight and ASOIAF more BUT the last 3 books of WoT were INCREDIBLE

[@CivilizationEx]

Correction: At 6:16, the Aes Sedai's name was Latra Posae Decume, not Concord. Correction 2: At 34:35 Lan Stabbed Demandred through the throat, not the heart. Correction 3: At 40:58, One of the Authors later revealed Lanfear survived. Clarification: At 32:21, Balefire prevented the Dark One from reincarnating a person but did not completely erase someone from existence forever. Balefire did not prevent the victim from being reincarnated by the creator like normal, but did prevent the Dark One from immediately bringing them back.

[@amberantk1]

Whence cometh this idea?

[@bwilhelm4214]

Ya it removes you from the pattern permanently. No coming back. That's why the use damaged the weave so much. And the crime of permanently destroying a soul that should have a chance of redemption in reincarnation.

[@CivilizationEx]

@@bwilhelm4214 Robert Jordan said it does not permanently erase someone, they will eventually be reborn like normal. But it destroys the immediate thread, which means the Dark One can't get your soul as you die.

[@MrMephiston]

RJ did say if it was a small strength balefre, and the DO was watching he could still nab that soul. He is after all outside of time.

[@theiran]

@@bwilhelm4214 RJ stated in an interview that it does not destroy you permanently. That your thread is burned out of the pattern and that your soul goes on to the afterlife, to wait for the next age, so that you can be born again.

[@CivilizationEx]

*A Brief Note on Wheel of Time Canon* The following is considered Primary WoT canon for the Civilization Ex Channel: Prequel Novel -New Spring Novel Short Story -The Strike at Shayol Ghul Novel Series -The Eye of the World (Including Ravens Prologue) -The Great Hunt -The Dragon Reborn -The Shadow Rising -The Fires of Heaven -Lord of Chaos -A Crown of Swords -The Path of Daggers -Winter’s Heart -Crossroads of Twilight -Knife of Dreams -The Gathering Storm -Towers of Midnight -A Memory of Light History and Reference Books -The World of Robert Jordan’s Wheel of Time -The Wheel of Time Companion The Following is considered Secondary Canon and will only be used if additional details are needed. Games -The Wheel of Time Roleplaying Game Written by other authors but approved by Robert Jordan. -The Wheel of Time PC Game Takes place in an alternate reality accessed through Portal Stones, so while it is not canon to the world we know it can be considered canon to the larger universe. Short Story -River of Souls Written by Brandon Sanderson but cut from A Memory of Light before their Continuity Editors could approve. The Following is considered Tertiary Canon and will not be used for information unless absolutely necessary. -The Wheel of Time Collectable Card Game TV Canon The Amazon Prime TV Show will not be considered canon to this universe, however videos may be made specifically for TV Show canon.

[@shaulkramer7425]

This is the correct stance.

[@jenna_a]

The many identities, disguises, and forms the forsaken take on is probably the most confusing thing for me to wrap my head around while reading the books. 😂 Thanks for clearing everything up

[@cedricthomas4867]

They are multiple & change with ages.

[@sethdishman4101]

Nice video. Need to update Lanfears ending now that the 10 year cat is out of the bag.

[@JoeSaintSeven]

Very well done. Thank you for posting!

[@amitabhakassap7339]

The effort that went into this video is astounding. 👍👍

[@lilianmiramontesjr.7550]

Finally im on the side of youtube with the Wheel of Time video essays.

[@fredericetile2505]

Incredible summary, thanks!

[@devonwilliams9576]

As a note, the cuendillar mentioned was the material focus for the Seals on the DO's prison. The phrase should be "they successfully placed the Seals (of cuendillar)"

[@CivilizationEx]

Timestamps: General History (No Spoilers) - 0:08 13 Forsaken in the Second Age (No Spoilers) - 10:04 14 Forsaken in the Third Age (Spoilers) - 26:21

[@arthurvyrin3431]

Love the video, the lore in the books is so good. Id like to see you do videos on some of the fan theories we have out there In the war of power not all channelers where forsaken/chosen. most where dread lords, the forsaken/chosen where pick by the dark one to lead his army's. They also never really worked together, they fought against each other just as hard as they fought the light. No one was nabis until the end of the books in the 3rd age. The fact that the dark one encourages them to fight is one of many reasons the dragon realize that the dark one could never really win, he doesn't have the ability to learn and change.

[@CivilizationEx]

In the age of Legends, all channelers were forsaken, not dreadlords. Dreadlords were created in the third age during the trolloc wars. Robert Jordan explained it in an interview. And some of the Forsaken did work together, mostly they competed, but some had alliances and agreements between them.

[@stuartpierce3691]

This was a great refresher.

[@AaronSogoian]

Wow. This was fantastic.

[@CurriedBat]

Gah, as an author I forgot how much this story influenced some of my own writing. Very kewl

[@DanielMartinez-lz3ot]

Too bad the Aes Sedai couldn't turn the Dark one's evil influence away from Amazon.

[@oisnowy5368]

Amazon does know how to make a bore. Hope it's quickly forsaken.

[@DanielMartinez-lz3ot]

@@oisnowy5368 Nice turn of phrase and good to know I'm not alone.

[@edwardblanc657]

@@DanielMartinez-lz3ot you're far from alone man. My eyes bleed and I quietly quote Machin Shin when I watch each episode. The fanfare around this TV series has the taste equivalent of a Jumara. It will be sealed away in the dark ones prison and forgotten with time.

[@DanielMartinez-lz3ot]

@@edwardblanc657 You're spot on there brother, Aginor sure as hell created this monstrosity! Thanks for the solidarity, we sing our screams together, if you pardon the paraphrase.

[@edwardblanc657]

@@DanielMartinez-lz3ot I mean, your paraphrasing is way more logical than Perrin drinking at a tavern while his pregnant wife works the Forge. 🤣

[@jayb8934]

Great video! I always have trouble remembering which Forsaken is which.

[@jaybeey7239]

Name twin 😎

[@j915winterking9]

This is one of the best book series ever. I have reread this all one day!

[@arkenea6301]

Very in-depth. I love it.

[@VincentVonDudler]

I'm 4:00 in and think GODDAMN this is good! And dense and awesome! Then I realized it's a 48 minute video GODDDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN! Loved it. Will watch it again in the future. :D

[@mattdunn256]

This is amazing. WOT is my far favorite, but he does a very good job on the first and second age of LOTR also.

[@phillipsommer983]

Another correction. It was confirmed by Brandon Sanderson that Lanfear tricked Perrin and survived.

[@Finnssssss]

Yep, only 4 Forsaken survived in the end and Lanfear was the only one free.

[@Finnssssss]

Lanfear Moggy was collared Graendal compulsed Messanna mind wiped

[@Isuream6331]

Well what the hell is she going to do now? The Dark One is trapped by seals that she has absolutely no chance of breaking and the good guys(they don’t have a named faction) are probably going to hunt for the Forsaken, as they don’t know which survived, so she’s probably screwed. Does her immortality even work anymore, with the Dark One sealed fully? If not, then she’s doubly screwed

[@phillipsommer983]

She'll do whatever she wants. No one is looking for her and the dark one can no longer touch her. She's free. That was one of her major motivations in the series, and in that one thing, she was successful. Beyond that you can use your imagination. If, in your opinion, she's screwed, so be it. I'm not here to convince you otherwise. @@Isuream6331

[@bradthomas1027]

This was such an epic series. I was worried about the ending after reading all those books but was happy with it, really a massive work of beauty

[@altibzz]

except book 10

[@reedr7142]

Fantastic. I’m surprised you didn’t mention Lanfear posing as Selene. These videos are great for me, as I’m re-reading the series. Seeing all the visuals is much better than reading the glossaries. If only the TV show actually paid any attention to source material 🤦‍♂️

[@samsmom1491]

He didn't mention her verbally, but Selene was listed as an alias. She is a literal embodiment of the phrase "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned."

[@KirbyJ89]

I love this and am giving this criticism with all respect… drawing out and over pronouncing words for emphasis does add a kind of excitement to the reading but doing it every 5th or 6th word is a little much and takes away more than it adds! Keep it up though my guy! Great video. Edit: am now at a part where it’s every or every other word and I’m gonna snap even though the content is amazing 😂😅

[@Bizasbusiness]

1st world problems dear

[@KirbyJ89]

@@Bizasbusiness my reply was constructive criticism… your reply was an attempt to talk shi to someone you’ll never see in real life on the internet… we are not the same 😂🤦🏼‍♂️🤡

[@samsmom1491]

I honestly appreciate someone who enunciates. I didn't notice it as overdone; didn't actually notice at all.

[@Zeopher]

Starting the saga again after 20 years. Thx in advance for the spoiler tag ^^

[@Moctipotili1]

Awesome job on this, thank you!

[@cowboyboots9901]

The running theme in this series was "women are always right and it leads to calamity". They constantly hamper Rand leading to massive follies.

[@elArqui22]

Theory: the show isn`t an adaptation of the books, but it`s de telling of the next third age. In the books Egwene and Nynaeve were not Ta'veren, but after the last battle they became heros of the Horn of Valere (at least Egwene does, and nynaeve obviously deserved it), but in the series they are Ta'veren... Also we see there are 9 forsaken, in the books there were 13, but 4 of them died baelfired, meaning they stoped exisiting in the pattern and now there are only 9

[@JKL-JKL-JKL]

Baelfire makes it so the dark one cannot resurrect them, but they can still be spun out again in the pattern.

[@liaw3166]

@@JKL-JKL-JKL Huh? Im pretty sure it was said that Balefire basically burns the threads out of the pattern - it affects the Pattern itself and thus its prohibited. Otherwise, it would be normal killing and its explicitly stated that its not.

[@JKL-JKL-JKL]

@@liaw3166 balefire. An extreme weapon of channelers. It burned anything it touched into nonexistence and also burned threads from the Pattern, an effect which could destroy past realities. People who were balefired could not be brought back by the Dark One; however, their souls were not destroyed, and they could be spun out by the Wheel at a later time. That is from the wheel of time companion

[@liaw3166]

@@JKL-JKL-JKLOh wow, thanks:D

[@plutarch6251]

Man this was so epic and so complete ty so much

[@eddieroy2418]

Great video I’m intrigued by this series because of you I may read and watch the books and show.

[@totalldwarf640]

Skip the show it's truly awful

[@chrism6315]

Watch the show its great, a lot of book purists are mad that different mediums require different ways to tell the story.

[@totalldwarf640]

@@chrism6315 scew off with your bullshit. The show is trash it's not even wheel of time

[@chrism6315]

@@totalldwarf640 If you have issues with the show and its changes that's valid, I probably don't agree but thats valid. When you say 'it's not wheel of time' you just look like a child throwing their toys out of the pram.

[@totalldwarf640]

@@chrism6315 no when a show takes a name of a beloved product then shoves in a bunch of sjw bs just because they I can perfectly and accurately say it's not wheel of time. That shit is not wheel if time and if you like it then you are not a wheel of time fan

[@roshandmatabick6676]

This made my bloody good day.

[@VersieKilgannon]

Every time I hear "The Dark One", I can't help but imagine Rumplestilskin 😅

[@Social_Pugatory]

I was picturing “The Beast” from the magicians 😂

[@VersieKilgannon]

@@Social_Pugatory I haven't heard of that show. Would you tell me about it, please? 😃

[@battenro]

The forsaken are the worst goons to ever grace a universe. They spend more time being backstabbing, conniving idiots than doing anything remotely sensible to stop the Dragon. Honestly they're so cartoonish that I felt Wiley Coyote would've made more of an impact.

[@Rellen00]

Stopping the dragon was not the shadow's goal as explained in aMOL.

[@battenro]

@@Rellen00 stopping his plans and converting him to the “dark side” was

[@chiaroscuroamore]

Loving the wheel of time vids!

[@torinbrown8196]

MOST definitely AWESOME!

[@adbylsh2756]

Nice video👌

[@princesscandlewax5170]

Excellently done! Thank you!

[@neocount6397]

Thanks for making this!

[@QueenDaenerysTargaryen]

They don’t get to choose 💥🐲🐉🔥🐲💥

[@benhuether5474]

I hope they do a teaser promo of the next season with them showing off the 13 Forsaken one by one over epic/creepy music similar to the 2022 Batman trailer score or 2018 Suspiria trailer score.

[@danwalker4064]

Well done mate.

[@j915winterking9]

The audible books are amazing!

[@reapergaming8810]

This video is awesome!

[@bradleyjames1965]

Very nicely done

[@janehexum4093]

team rocket is blasting off again!

[@crisgoldy]

Great video, thanks!

[@jessewilliams9195]

Awesome. Thank you

[@notjazz.]

Found this video, took a look at your discography, instant sub 🤣👏🏾

[@ckennedy1973]

Brings me back to the books 📖

[@ObsidianAngiris]

So in summary, the destruction of the world came about not because of men, but because the women refused to do what needed to be done, causing much suffering for many more years and the eventual madness of all male sorcerers

[@CivilizationEx]

Although the women were morally wrong in what they did, it actually ended up being a good thing by accident. At the time there was nothing that would have worked because they didn't fully understand the problem. If the women had gone both the men and women would have gone crazy. So the women not going ended up being a good thing even though they did it for bad reasons.

[@GaysianAmerican]

Wait why didn’t the forsaken women just channel large amounts of saidar so the dark one can taint saidar as well. Then making it so only by swearing oaths to the dark one can prevent madness for men and women alike

[@drrohanjacob]

I think its because the male half of the one power is continuously blocking the bore and so they cant physically reach Shaitan unless the seal is removed one the dragon placed the seals Plus before the dragon did it probably no one knew it was possible.

[@Lonelyeco]

Some of their deaths and prisonments were hilarious but satisfying.

[@Cl0ckcl0ck]

Nice video! But man I had forgotten how repetitive the story was with the endless respawning of defeated enemies.

[@kalaldin9154]

Awesome account! Instant sub. 👍

[@clary6447]

Fabulous as usual.

[@gstevens866]

Thank you.

[@jfnadoe9509]

Thank you

[@KceeKit]

~ Great Stuff ! ~

[@amberantk1]

Thanks so much! There are just so many of them. Wonder how the show will handle.

[@alexg5092]

By not including most of them probably

[@merc9nine]

What show? Winx Saga?

[@eddieroy2418]

@@merc9nine sounds like lord of the rings and the Bible and it’s war between the angels. And a little bit of Star Wars not in space.

[@tabithaknofski888]

@@merc9nine Amazon Prime's Wheel of Time tv show.

[@kingofsauce1319]

Poorly probably. I don't have high hopes for it.

[@annenominous7220]

dear god in heaven, as big a nerd as I am, this is right up there with learning to speak Klingon. Boogle.

[@Bizasbusiness]

how slow are you

[@Finsolitus]

Cuendillar is the indestructible material the seals were made from. Was the word ever actually used as the synonym for the seals themselves?

[@jamespatillo3742]

No the books always said the seals were made from Cuendillar, and though it was indestructible by the time of the dragon reborn they were breaking.

[@clarkpreston1955]

Where is it confirmed that Graendal kills Asmodean? I've never been able to figure that one out!

[@CivilizationEx]

It is implied when the Myddraal Shaidar Haran accuses Graendal of being responsible for the deaths of 3 chosen, Mesanna, Asmodean and Aran'gar. It is then confirmed in the glossary of Tower of Midnight and the WoT companion book.

[@clarkpreston1955]

@@CivilizationEx thank you!

[@DuskbringerX]

Lews-Therin did nothing wrong

[@TastyGamingQc]

Okay but if the Aes Sedai agreed to attempt the perfect sealing, do you think it would’ve worked ? Or was it doomed to fail ?

[@self-righteousideologue9398]

I'm not a big fan of the books, but I love the lore of WoT. The books have too much plot armor, IMO, and the plots are pretty repetitive. I've actually stopped reading them like four times now, but now I'm finally forcing myself to read them all. I'm on book 4 at the moment. I just really don't like stories where all the main characters are safe, and that's the feeling I get with WoT and why I keep quitting the series. But like I said, the lore is absolutely fascinating, and I wish they did an animate show to really get into the lore. Kind of like Star Wars the Clone Wars. We got a regular show, but I think doing a darker, animated one would have been better.

[@emeros8631]

A lot of them joined the darkness out of jealousy

[@naturetruthseeker8377]

Hi have a basic question. Will Ishmael be resurrected after culmination of book 14, as only body swap happened and not balefired. What does it mean when Ishmael says we have battled countless times through ages and with respect to bore itself was opened only during Lews Therin times? After the Bore is sealed at Shayol Gul or before Bore is opened by Lanfear, did dark one never had any influence on the pattern or anyone within it. If he doesnt, how did Ishamael and Lews Therin fight countless battles?

[@CivilizationEx]

Hey, thanks for the questions I'll do my best to answer. So in the Wheel of Time universe, time is cyclical, meaning that the world restarts in a new Age with every turning of the wheel. Everything that happens to Lews Therin and Ishamael, from the opening of the bore to the final battle, occurs within one full turn of the wheel. So even though Rand won the final battle and peace was restored, it's only temporary. Eventually the wheel will turn and the world will restart, and everything will happen again. The bore will somehow be opened, the Dark One will influence the world, a new hero will rise and the final battle will be fought again. This pattern repeats itself forever and will never end. Thus the famous quote: there are neither beginnings nor endings to the wheel of time. The entire 14 book series is just about one specific age, but that Age is not special and all the events we witnessed will occur again in a different way during the next Age. Lastly, the reason Ishamael claimed they fought many times is because he believes himself and Lewis Therin are special. Their souls are the chosen champions of the Dark One and Creator, so they are reborn every Age in new bodies to once again fight a final battle to decide who wins for the Age, even though it's only temporary and they will fight again during the next turning of the Wheel. :)

[@treacherousjslither6920]

They were built up to be such badasses but they got clowned by newcomers from the boonies smh

[@AnythingMachine]

I always found it to be a bit of a missed opportunity that all the forsaken except Ishemael were pure selfish hedonists. Would have been nice to have a few deluded idiots, religious fanatics etc.

[@Kylora2112]

Yeah, or at least more like Aginor (mad scientist) and Semirhage (just...evil) and less "Lews is just too awesome, I must turn to evil in jealousy." The Forsaken's motives are probably the weakest plot elements.

[@Delheru]

Some of them posed as hedonists. Lanfear went over out of sheer pride (after having fucked up do badly). Ishamael went over ideologically. Demandred, Be'lal, and Sammael were the only ones who went over for envy, and neither seem really hedonistic at all. Bunch did fucked up stuff that really got them in trouble that made staying with the light problematic (Mesaana, Aginor). I am not sure what other realistic causes besides - frankly - severe personality flaws could people have to actually join the dark one. The Forsaken would naturally be stacked with the deadly sins except sloth (because it's a competitive position).

[@merc9nine]

@@Delheru some people enjoy the tv show, which just proves that you can join the dark side out of ignorance and delusion.

[@nerdrocker89]

@@merc9nine Stfu so you don't like it, doesn't make liking it ignorance.

[@chrism6315]

Can't remember exactly for a lot of others, but demanded iirc was purely out of jelousy/hatred of ltt, he could have easily been the champion if the light if ltt wasn't around.

[@felixkimani5375]

He just finished the series for me in 2 minutes😂😂😂😂

[@socratichero6612]

41:00 Lanfear Lives

[@samarthur1847]

Tis years since I read TWOT, not sure if they were Forsaken but I remember a tall woman and a short but legendary swordsman, can anyone jog my memory.

[@DanielMartinez-lz3ot]

Aviendha and Davram Bashere?

[@samarthur1847]

@@DanielMartinez-lz3ot Hi Daniel, thanks for that, I do believe you are right, much appreciated.

[@bobbyearnest5504]

Wait wasn't that woman Bridgette and her partner. I don't remember his name. She used a bow.

[@DanielMartinez-lz3ot]

After sleeping on it I remembered Rodel Ituralde, he was very short and a great swordsman too.That might be the one you are thinking of, he was the only Great Captain that wasn't completely exposed to Graendal's corruption. I would like to think that Jordan would have developed those later characters more had he lived.

[@DanielMartinez-lz3ot]

@@bobbyearnest5504 Birgitte Silverbow and Gaidal Cain, she was around 5 foot 5.

[@JOFelony23]

How come he calls her Latra Posae Concord instead of Latra Posae Decume? Did she get the third name after the coming up with the Fateful Concord?

[@CivilizationEx]

No sorry about that I just made a mistake, I left a correction in the comments.

[@mr_noob5931]

@@CivilizationEx u should pin tha comment.

[@kevinsnider7550]

So correct me if I am wrong but didn’t Graendal get captured during the war of power and was turned to the shadow by 13 Dark AES Sedai and a Myrddraal? Which accounted for her utter flip from pure aesthetics to malicious hedonism? Also didn’t Asmodean get reincarnated on the order of Lans high ranking dark friend brother? He was punished by being reincarnated as a nearly powerless girl who was then sent to the rebel tower, became Egwene’s personal servant and was using the one power to both cause and “cure” her headaches and trying to use compulsion on her? I forget all the names but I swear I read it.

[@asherbrown6725]

Balthamel was the one who was reincarnated as Aran’gar, who posed as Halima and gave Egwene headaches. Asmodean was never reincarnated - his link to the Dark One was severed by Rand during their fight in Rhuidean and so either the Dark One didn’t notice or didn’t care to reincarnate him (or potentially Graendal used balefire). Graendal was never mentioned to be Turned and we would’ve noticed since those who are Turned “lose something”. From reading AMoL, it seems like the primary thing they lose is initiative, which Graendal certainly has, so I think her being Turned is unlikely

[@shauntempley9757]

No. She was actually seized by Darkfriends and a Trolloc army out in the open. She had already turned to the Shadow by that moment. Which means, it was most likely a false flag attempt to sow chaos that succeeded to screw over the population's unity going into the war.

[@christinearmington]

Dark power infighting. Sounds like The Apprentice. 😏

[@Bizasbusiness]

The Apprentice sounds like WOT

[@runforrestrun1965]

So in a nutshell please, what’s the difference with one power vs true power?

[@CivilizationEx]

The one power is magic available to everyone and was divided into Saidin and Saidar. The true power is magic directly from the Dark One and is only available to the Forsaken and his followers.

[@bryanmcdougall6973]

Got too book 6 and couldn't anymore... You just got to quit when the author moves all his characters by one piece in a 900 page book...

[@MrVlandus]

Retelling of Lotr... dark lord trope. Lol

[@Phoenix-King-ozai]

The forsaken are.......such petty people For all their competence

[@josevillatoro9655]

10,000 year slumbers

[@josevillatoro9655]

Why is Ishmael always the first one on scene

[@dzdaydreamer92]

If the TV show changes who the Dragon Reborn is i am going to lose my shit! The changes they made so far are kinda pointing to one of the chicks being the dragon. Might be misdirect but they are setting it up

[@Calathil]

Of course it's a misdirection.

[@chrism6315]

The showrunner has stated that the identity of the Dragon has not been changed.

[@chrism6315]

@Brant Good there's an article on deadline where he's quoted as saying 'book readers know who the dragon is'. As usually is the case, the people screaming the loudest dont even have their facts straight.

[@chrism6315]

@Brant Good They have said elements about his relationships are changing, when have they said he is no longer heterosexual?

[@chrism6315]

@Brant Good wait, you think that tweet is real? Holy shit. Its a joke you absolute cretin.

[@whitecloak11]

They prefer to be called the chosen, lol

[@stevene6181]

LoTR?

[@CivilizationEx]

LOTR videos will start again next year, probably around February or March.

[@stevene6181]

@@CivilizationEx I was just pointing out how similar this title is to lotr haha

[@chillsahoy2640]

@@stevene6181 I think it's fair to say that LotR has been genre-defining. Tolkien effectively set up the high fantasy archetypes that are used to this day. Not that he necessarily invented every trope, but he solidified them into a set of standards which fit into the narrative.

[@centary2004]

@@CivilizationEx I wonder how different/difficult this was to research and make compared to LoTR? You always do great work and I love you LoTR videos

[@CivilizationEx]

@@centary2004 It was quite difficult since I had to reread the entire series, including the history and companions books. Making LOTR vids has gotten easier over the years because I am so familiar with that world and am constantly rereading the books, so I already have a really large knowledge base to work from. Since I don't make Wheel of Time vids very often I had to relearn everything relatively quickly before making these vids.

[@mordirit8727]

A tiny correction, Lews Therin's plan didn't fail because of the Fateful Concord, it failed because it was never going to work. Rand only achieved the result Lews Therin thought he would because he added the True Power to the mix by manipulating Ishamael through the flaw in Callandor. If men and women had tried to seal the Bore together either the one to first place the seal would have been tainted or _both_ would have, the lack of a True Power channeler on the seal meant it would always end with an imperfect seal that also corrupted the power used on it.

[@oskarpalus2846]

I thought the seal would be complete, but with both tainted? I assumed that true power was there only to shield saidin and saidar, not to finish the seal.

[@mordirit8727]

@@oskarpalus2846 it couldn't work like that, going by what Herid Fel said. _Actually_ sealing the Bore, successfully closing it, is meant to leave the Dark One so completely out of touch with the world that by the time the Wheel turns back to the Second Age all memory of him is entirely gone. This would hardly be possible if every channeler on the planet, male and female, felt his presence every time they channeled. Then again, going by this logic, no matter _what_ Lews Therin did he would fail, it's the nature of the Second Age that the Shadow wins, and the nature of the Third that the Light must rebuild itself from the rubbles of the Second

[@frocat5163]

@@mordirit8727 *"Then again, going by this logic, no matter what Lews Therin did he would fail..."* I mean...that's the entire point of the Wheel; everything repeats. The Dragon will always fail to completely reseal the Dark One's prison, trigger the Dark One's counterstroke tainting _saidin,_ and beginning the Breaking of the World. (It's worth noting, the Dragon isn't always named 'Lews Therin Telemon'. The Heroes of the Horn pretty clearly indicate that they have different names when they're reborn.) *"...it's the nature of the Second Age that the Shadow wins"* I don't think it's fair to say the Shadow wins. If the Shadow won, the Dark One would be freed from his prison, and he would break the Wheel. The Light won, but it was largely a pyrrhic victory.

[@mordirit8727]

@@frocat5163 the Dark One "wins" in the terms that he can possibly win. Think about the different worlds. Every possibility happens... But, should the Dark One ever win in any of them, the Wheel is broken and reality itself ceases. Just by existing, the world proves that a complete victory by the Dark One is categorically and absolutely impossible, it hasn't, can't and won't ever happen. Under those terms, what he achieved by the end of the Second Age is the closest he'll ever get to a win

[@frocat5163]

@@mordirit8727 *"Just by existing, the world proves that a complete victory by the Dark One is categorically and absolutely impossible, it hasn't, can't and won't ever happen."* Not really. I should have clarified in my initial response that none of that repetition will happen if the Dark One actually breaks free. As is pointed out in several places throughout the series, if the Dark One were to win, he would destroy the Wheel and time would end. There is always a possibility that the Dark One breaks free in either the Second or Third Age. (We have no idea if there's any conflict with the Shadow in Ages Four, Five, Six, Seven or One, though we know everyone has forgotten the Dark One even exists by the Second Age.) If the Wheel is broken and time ends, there will be no more repetition. *"Under those terms, what he achieved by the end of the Second Age is the closest he'll ever get to a win"* Again, not really. An actual victory by the Shadow would throw everything else out the window (I definitely should have clarified that in my original comment). What continues happening in the Second Age is the best the Dark One can do _if_ he doesn't win. I guess my point was getting close to a win and actually winning are two different things.

[@SHARKVADERS]

CivEx!!!

[@kevinrowley55]

You misspelled harem as haram, haram is something forbidden by Islamic law, where a harem is like a group of concubines or servants.

[@spamsade8636]

Fab

[@FeebleAntelope]

I mean, it's cool to see these videos around now, but at the same time, it's a bit ironic that they're coming out just as Amazon's fan fiction series is airing. Who knows what the Forsaken will look like in this alternate universe turning of the Wheel? EDIT: Well, I hope I'm wrong, but it appears they're foreshadowing only 8 Forsaken. ~sigh~

[@merc9nine]

It's not an alternate turning, it's just fan fiction.

[@eddieroy2418]

As the wheel turns

[@FeebleAntelope]

@@merc9nine I literally just called it fan fiction lol

[@MrMephiston]

The up side is readers that watch are getting interested and picking up the series.

[@chrism6315]

Why do you think 8 is bad? The show cannot run 14 seasons, changes have to be made, you can cut *spoilers* Be'lal and half the book readers wouldn't notice and can cut bathalmel and aginor with only giving creation of shadowspawn to another needed to retcon, thats 3 down easily that really can't be argued with. I admit the next 3 become more difficult, but the only sacred ones that can't be touched are ishy/moridin, llanfear, demandred (hope the show keeps the original plan for him to be honest) and moggy, the rest are all important but for example, you could easily combine rahvin and samael without too much difficulty etc.

[@ThePacificNorseWest87]

I had to turn it off after seeing a woman in her second trimester working the bellows of a forge and hammering iron while her “husband” was drinking and gambling at the tavern. This show was a joke on societal roles.

[@JordanS215]

What pregnant woman?

[@icarus-wings]

It’s been reduced to a political statement.

[@Noname2I]

The show is based on 14 (15 if you count the prequel) books written by Robert Jordan and finished by Brandon Sanderson that depict some stuff like what you mentioned quiet differently. At this point the show is diverging a lot from the books, which are great

[@chrism6315]

The show presented the woman as being unreasonable in that situation. It's valid not to like the change, to think what happens affects the story too much for other reasons, but please be right about the facts, makes you look a fool otherwise.

[@shaulkramer7425]

@@JordanS215 Perrin's "wife"