Clash of Kings 22 First Impressions - Orcs (Kings of War)

The Northern Kings (and a few special guests here and there) give their first impressions of the Clash of Kings 2022 changes.

[@remiles1987]

Good review. The titbit about the formation drum being able to buy other spells is interesting, but not likely to be taken due it already costing the price of a small unit. I cannot find the 'fun' list in Orcs either, but I think this is mostly because the whole army is based on using the War Drums and they are a massive problem for list building. The first 2 unlocks of any Orc list have to go on drums, and due to the drum's Rallying being 'baked in' to the Orc units from a balance point of view, you are forced to play your lists in little clusters around the drums to make sure you are redeeming the points cost. Playing Orcs at the moment with the dependency on the drums is essentially playing 160 points down. Lots of people suggest that to make Orcs interesting, they could do with some interesting monsters, but where would you fit them? War Drums take up 2 monster slots, and you are going to want at least 3 inspiring sources, so without spamming cheap units for unlocks, where they going to fit? At the beginning of the video Elliot mentions Orcs are all about the grind. Heal and Drain Life spam to keep the hordes up and grinding. However; this is actually hard to fit in a list - not helped by the three different +x to casting variants. Godspeakers don't inspire, so you either are paying for Krudgers to inspire, so the Godspeakers can cast Heal/Drain life, or you go Ulpgar and Wip: the first method means you cannot take next to nothing but unlocking hordes as you will need 3 Godspeakers and at least 2 Krudgers (assuming one Godspeaker has Inspiring Tailisman) for a max of heal 17 ish (assuming Shroud of the Saint on one Godspeaker), and the second means you have room in the list for non unlocking units but pitiful healing (Life Leach 3 at best, and Heal 5 from Wip at best) which won't keep a horde going, let alone an army. I don't think the Heal grind Orc list is as competitive as you guys feel, what with things like Lord on Frostfangs, Ogre Bullies etc... effectively undoing all the healing by simply multi-charging in with another unit (Orc Hordes are huge as you mention, if you are not getting multi-charges in on them, something is very wrong) resulting in the Orc horde still popping in 2 turns. It just isn't strong enough across an army to be viable on the higher tables. It is also possibly so boring to play that were Sports a thing, the Orc player would be in negative values due to putting both themselves and their opponent into a mild depression. I think Orcs can be made more interesting with a change to War Drums. Give the drums Inspiring and multiple 'songs' they can drum to give out multiple effects. Each drum can only play 1 song per turn, but the effects can layer up. One of the song's would be the Rally, but you could have a Life Leach song, a + Wild Charge song etc... This would mean that taking non-unlocking units (Skulks, War Wagons etc... and characters other than Krudgers like Mansplitters and Godspeakers, you know, the vaguely 'interesting' stuff) isn't such a punishment as the drums are pulling double duty and would at least give the Orc player something to think about in his turn other than 'are my hordes in a flush line'. IMHO, Mantic wasted an opportunity by releasing Riftforged Orcs as a standalone, and not just adding the interesting units into Orcs. Orcs with a 50mm flyer hero, a Monstrous flying cav unit, the super shrine, and some actual shooting worth a damn would have made the army feel much more fleshed out, and not just 'they are green and move forwards'. I think part of the reason for Orcs in Kow feeling boring is due to them being part of one of the most fun and mad armies in WhFB. In WhfB, the goblins added the 'fun', whereas in Kow, Goblins are their own thing, and the Orc list is left bereft of anything fun.

[@john-paulfuller-jackson1606]

To me the drums having dread is like the drumming in the mines of moria. That was a feeling of dread!

[@jacobwoods2918]

Think orcs need some interesting monsters to make them interesting. The option of a giant or blocks of units to make up your front line is bland. Possibly why I'm really interested in riftforged orcs.

[@andyhawley8344]

Agreed. They should have just changed the orc list. No reason to take normal orcs now

[@jacobwoods2918]

@@andyhawley8344 definitely reasons to take normal orcs. The drum is so important and an orc msu build is actually possible in normal orcsz riftforged are semi monobuild and very elite

[@jaredbrady5566]

Enjoy the vids, thanks! One minor critique from a non-British person: Sometimes it is difficult to understand what is being said. Especially if something is said quickly or multiple people speak at once. Maybe look into upgrading your mic, or move it closer or try and cut some the ambient noise. Anyway, keep it up and make more vids. Cheers!

[@l200jjk]

There is nothing to get excited about with Orcs. I would say they are slightly less god but only because almost all other armies have been improved and Orcs have received nothing. They are not bad, but they are bland! Tom's rant at 17:48 is spot on!! War drums are an absolute crutch for Orcs and they are trying desperately to make them fun and more interesting but failing every time. Giving them a load of pointless upgrade options - 45pts for a chariot upgrade with dread??? no thanks I'll just take another drum instead for 80pts. They are best kept cheap. One potentially cool thing for orcs is Gakamak. His nerve buff is great and at less points too! A Godspeaker with host shadowbeast 8 can now give Gakamak 11,12,13 attacks all hitting on 2s wounding on 2s(with vicious) That is about the only fun thing I found in Orcs in CoK22. Wrecking ball Gakamak.

[@samsowden]

Orcs get to chant in time to the drum, making them even scarier.

[@IsaacScharp]

As an American who does have a little trouble with the accents, especially pronouncing fantasy names, who has to listen to this with the volume low, and uses CC to help keep track of the conversation I have a request. Could you put up on the screen the name of the unit you are discussing? You all often look down while saying the name, directing your voice away from the microphone, then can go most of the discussion without saying their name again. It would make it a lot easier. Loving this, especially as a player who just started this year and is getting a lot of background out of it.

[@northernkings1040]

Thanks for the suggestion, yeah I'll have a go at adding in an image of a text card showing what unit we're talking about.

[@jacobwoods2918]

We getting any more of these?

[@Daedlehack]

Elliot's wife, Kate, completed their 9 month long craft project a couple of weeks ago. Needless to say he's a bit busy these days!

[@jacobwoods2918]

@@Daedlehack ah right fair enough. Congratulations to him and his wife.

[@yanpeng2671]

So does that mean no more army reviews? What a real shame

[@idiotproofdalek]

Im not a prude but Tom’s constant F’ing and blinding is really offputting and unprofessional. Kinda makes KoW players seem like twats.

[@northernkings1040]

We've been called many things in our time, but never professional

[@leefellows8770]

I fucking love Tom's bastard swearing

[@IsaacScharp]

Makes them seem like chill dudes to me.