Classic WoW Downranking Guide & Tool

Defcamp and I are proud to present the fruit of our collaboration with Ozgar, the creator of an amazing Downranking Tool for the Classic WoW Community (www.wowdownrank.com). In this video we go over why its important to downrank, how to calculate spell coefficients, and our new downranking metric, HES!
----- Video Links -----
Link to Slides: docs.google.com/presentation/...
Ozgar’s Downranking Tool:
Ozgar’s Tool on Classicwow.live: classicwow.live/guides/670/oz...
Ozgar’s Reddit Page: / oggzor
Ozgar’s GitHub Repository: github.com/oskarholmberg
Melderon’s Email Address: [e-mail]
CWL Discord: / discord
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If you would like to contact us regarding future episodes of DefTalk email us at [e-mail]
#classicwow #worldofwarcraft #vanilla
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Intermission with Defcamp Playlist: • Intermission With Defcamp
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[@DefcampMelderonTV]

We are very proud of this guide and tool. Let us know how it helped you heal more efficiently! Link to Google Slides: docs.google.com/presentation/d/1gpVWKEQaBOkLA-Gp_lbnIqqVRCwSiiSt985gyKr2KwE/edit?usp=sharing Timestamps: 00:09 - Introduction 00:50 - What is Downranking? 01:47 - Why Should I Downrank? 02:32 - Other Things to Consider when Downranking 02:53 - H/DpME vs. H/DpS and their Importance 04:26 - How the Situation also Matters 05:16 - How do H/DpME & H/DpS Scale? 06:06 - Understanding Spell Coefficients 07:11 - How Spell Coefficients Work 09:06 - Quirky Spell Coefficients 10:23 - Pre-20 Penalties 11:44 - How Talents affect Spell Coefficients 13:09 - The Effect of Spell Power on H/DpME 15:40 - The Effect of Spell Power on H/DpS 16:58 - Downranking before Level 60 18:25 - How do we Weight H/DpME and H/DpS? 19:54 - Introducing Ozgar’s Downranking Tool and the HES Metric! 22:19 - Understanding HES 23:17 - Breakpoints aren’t Everything! 24:56 - Know your Toolkit and how to Compare between Spells! 26:51 - The Future & a call for Feedback 27:50 - Conclusions and more Defcamp & Melderon TV Content

[@davidashton1452]

this is clear, engaging, thanks for making this.

[@ozgar9332]

Thanks a lot @Melderon for taking an interest in my tool! It's been a great pleasure collaborating with you on this project and hopefully we'll keep that going.

[@DefcampMelderonTV]

Was my pleasure, man! Can't wait to see what else we can accomplish!

[@ozgar9332]

@Craestation to be honest it seemed to be consensus in the community that the 3.5 sec cast and 15 sec duration were the reference times. These values were also used by the old Vanilla addon TheoryCraft, and have been verified on the Classic Beta :)

[@dumpdebbie1170]

One very important point that the calculator does not incorporate - and really it should - is your in combat mp5 rate, mana pool and length of encounter. Saying that the lowest/2nd lowest rank of some spell becomes the most mana efficient when you hit X healing power may be true, in practice your total mana pool will be such that you will be able to cast higher ranks of that spell continuously for an entire encounter without going oom. Also for whatever reason on the graphs its going to 2k healing power which is nowhere near attainable for any class in vanilla. Around 1k naxx geared fully enchanted is more reasonable, with priests being a bit higher. All in all though its a good start.

[@DefcampMelderonTV]

Some good suggestions here. Although length of encounter is much too variable to model.

[@henningwagner1099]

A big thank you for all your work you put into the calculator!

[@leagueistrash8927]

This video make me brain remember why me play strong warrior, me no good with math, me smash thing do big hurt

[@COFsux]

Word.

[@Victor-rs2ws]

then you have not watched, kzbin.info/www/bejne/on2nYmWlitx9pac

[@evilcam]

This is an extremely impressive tool, and guide. You all really did some serious leg work, and I at least appreciate the effort put into it.

[@Mixolydian7712]

Mad respect for what you do melderon. Classic is going to be insane when people have such easy access to in depth guides and tools. I cant wait to see the contrast in dedication/skill between players 15 years ago to now.

[@D3Z3R7]

I wish I could have linked this to my GM when he demanded that all priests spam flash heal for MC. After the first pack of Molten Giants I knew something was deeply wrong. I whipped out my TI-83 from high school, ended up with every rank of Heal and Greater Heal on my bars, and just prayed that nobody noticed me. Maximizing mana efficiency by predicting which rank of heal to use on who was some of the most fun I've ever had playing WoW. It was even more thrilling because I was breaking the rules. Thank you Melderon and Ozgar!

[@yordangrigorov6399]

You explain better than my maths teacher!

[@sombrego2260]

Congrats on both the guide and the tool. Both are incredibly useful and hype me to no end for being a healer in classic!

[@argusroth3269]

This will become so handy when classic comes and will really help alot of guilds get newer players onboard when it comes to late game raiding

[@Chris-gy9qc]

Finally! A downranking guide that actually goes in depth into the math, thank you! Definitely going to use this tool! Also I got giddy when you used natural logs, lol.

[@Coffzorz9]

Holy crap! This is amazing! I am playing healer (priest) for the first time in a vanilla setting when classic has come, this will be insanely helpful for me. I will use this for sure! Thank you guys :)

[@Vapir87]

What a video, you guys are a gem to the classic wow community!

[@Haeroism]

This was nuts. Cheers both of you. I feel I might be to daft to use this, as I like to smash buttons and heal like a pro for 30 seconds. But that said, I am going watch your other vids now... Thank you

[@j.canterro3336]

Dude, this is amazing! No one told me I’d have a math test too! Thx for the hard work

[@anonymousjeffry1864]

Thanks for the tool and graphs. Really interesting to see it visualized instead of going with a gut feeling like I did in 2005. EDIT: And thanks for the "tips" :'D

[@shawnmorris86]

Amazing video. Really informative! Only thing I would add to your dps slide is using lower ranks pre 60 in order to kill an enemy on low health, when a high rank would overkill, saving mana and sometimes having a shorter cast time, speeding up the kill.

[@jeffreyscott5180]

The density of valuable info is amazing. I raid healed in bc and wtlk and didn’t know half of this. Thanks for the breakdown!

[@henningwagner1099]

It is good to hear, that it is possible to heal without knowing all that. I thought I need a second monitor for the calculator.

[@melontinii]

Henning Wagner I’ve been healing without all of this and I’m holding up okay lol

[@gmmay70]

Ahhh, now the useful healing stuff is finally starting to rear its beautiful head. I haven't seen good mathematical breakdowns on this since some of the old forums that have long been dead, forgotten, and unknown to those who really only played Pservers for their classic experience.

[@laner.845]

I’ve spent 12yr in a career that pretty much requires statistics to understand at the base level (the creating the modeling level, which I don’t do, I apply the modeling in my job). Through some roundabout schooling, transfers across multiple programs, and dumb luck, I managed to avoid taking stats as a course. I’ve never once in that 12yr thought for a single moment that I should have taken it, or that skipping it was a bad idea. But 8 minutes into this video I’m regretting having never taken stats. Thanks, guys. I’m going to second guess myself for life now. 😂

[@SyeedAli]

Does watching this give college credits?

[@DefcampMelderonTV]

Tell your prof to email me ;)

[@Balloonbot]

Yeah do i earn [Undergraduate Scroll of Qualification]? Its my pre-job BiS

[@alexautry3676]

@@DefcampMelderonTV 😂😂😂😂😂

[@clubjrgaming2610]

this is awesome for someone like me, im new to wow and roll a priest on a privat server too find out if this game was something for me, result im wating for wow in few days so yes it is me, but how ever i found my self overhealing and was told to down grade my spell, and that it here this tool is going to be very very helpfull. i now have a way to make overhealing less and keep my mana for longer periode off time before drinking as an priest in dungon party, yes i havnt tryied raids yet but i hope to do so in wow classic. thank you for making this great tool and guide to get into the healing mind and hopfully , it will make me a better healer. thank for you great content as always gl on classic.....just at the corner. :D

[@noneofyourbusiness7609]

I tend to to "separate" the best players in a game into Elitists and Elite players. Elitists are undeniably skilled and dedicated, but they are cliquish, exclusive types who are often quite arrogant and work for themselves or at best for their small inner circle. Elites are just as skilled and dedicated, but they are inclusive, humble and go out of their way to work for the entire community of the game, either in-game or by means of guides etc. You guys, Kargoz, Frostadamus, Ozgar et al are Elite players, 100%. Which is why I follow your content. Thanks so much for taking all this time to establish a healthy community and going out of your way to help everyone become better! Hopefully, I'll run into your alts on EU servers :) Greetings from Greece, D&M and community! Can't wait to share the World of Warcraft with people around the world once more!

[@ozgar9332]

This comment warmed my heart. Thank you for your kind words!

[@plaguezz2539]

The amount of work you have put in is just astonishing! Thank you so much!! I can tell you heal because you care 😂😂

[@zinofwin]

This is awesome. Good job with the project

[@Epicdps]

Sick! Always wanted a guide about coefficients and downranking. Thank you guys for putting in the work. This is insanely in-depth!! Totally nuts to look at those crazy detailed numbers and graphs

[@Jhn-tl5ng]

Thank you for putting in the work, this is amazing. Also Classicwow.live is great. Excited to see all that you guys have been working on come to life.

[@lincolnosiris3665]

This is completely mental...well done!

[@MrDarkfeld]

My mind just blew up after all this quality informations

[@So.cheese]

Wow this is amazing information! Thanks for your hard work! The tool is great! Keep it up! 😊

[@flooent]

Another excellent guide. Well explained!

[@jaednhowlar2359]

hey, just another tip to add. Rank 2 fireball and frostbolt have a reason for rank 2, as the slow lasts 1 sec longer and the dot lasts 2 seconds longer. rank 4 frostbolt and fireball lasts another 1/2 seconds. if you are dotting a running rogue this matters.

[@arnold790609]

I used to use DrDamage add-on back in TBC. It did all this, in real time, in game with a tooltip on all spells. I think the developer stopped updating back in 4.0. If you could do this it would have even more of an impact on the community. Thanks so much for what you've done here.

[@COFsux]

There's a similar add-on in vanilla called Theorycraft. I doubt it was as extensive though.

[@florianwilhelm9748]

Great Guide! :)One additional Thing I would like to mention: There is another circumstance where I prefere a higher rank heal over a lower one: Instead of using HW R3 3 times, you can use HW R10 1 time and then don't heal for 5 seconds to trigger the 5SR (5 second rule) und increase your mana regen. This Situation is maybe more realistic on 5 or 10man Content (where you don't get heal-sniped), but it is something to Keep in mind imho.

[@DefcampMelderonTV]

Correct, in 5 man's I almost always use higher ranks as I don't heal as often

[@avaughnimous]

Good stuff. Thanks for putting this information together.

[@graham1206]

10/10 video. Explained VERY well. Good work!

[@shanedowney5299]

Wow melderon! This is amazing. One of the reasons I was never good healing in vanilla other than I was 10 was that I never knew witch heal to use. This tool is amazing and I can't wait to use it in classic!

[@TobiasSchulz-od2tw]

Absolutly awesome - one of the best guide in general!

[@TheRomanoLV]

That has to be the coolest intro I have ever seen

[@Vlagstaf]

Excellent video, my brain just leaked there and there, but otherwise just a very good classic healing guide !

[@creamsoddaaa]

Brilliant video thanks for putting this together

[@carlpowell0]

So keen to try this website!! Awesome video thanks

[@veksar]

Wow. Fantastic job you guys.

[@erickvega7379]

Thanks for your hard work guys

[@Blekk1989]

Well done guys,cheers!

[@sirjesteez3496]

Amazing video and an extremely amazing tool, ty!!

[@chrisbridle6827]

Incredible. Well done.

[@firemarshaldil]

Fantastic video!

[@thendcomes]

Great work on the tool and great video and overview. Small nitpick tho: "HpME" should just be "HPM" as that is the amount of healing you get per mana spent, which is what you're calculating. "Healing per mana efficiency" or HPM efficiency is your goal which you can achieve by calculating and comparing HPM across different ranks.

[@daketh4572]

Great guide. Kept my interest while I did cardio. 😂

[@prisonerofthehighway1059]

You get extra DKP for getting your +sta world buff. gj

[@LoveYou-cd6gz]

very well done, this vid deserves alot more views. wish i could double like it

[@rntypical]

This is it. The day math saves a life.

[@glam_racket]

Holy shit guys. This is amazing!

[@emme80wow49]

Helps a lot. Ty guys!

[@MrNikomadsen]

Finally... (Edit) okay, nvm me being impatient! Holy faeces, you guys are going all the miles for the rest of us!! I'm awestruck by the amount of work you must have done here. Comments I have after seeing this: -Definitely never gonna be a healer, shaman tanking starts to look real simple😅 - Are you saying I should wait training my spells until I dinged 20? - looking forward to hearing what this lvl of scrutiny can do for the elemental shaman! Br Batjohn

[@ozgar9332]

Thanks man! Appreciate it! Yeah, when you aspire to be a good healer there is A LOT of things to consider! You should try Shaman tanking :D I tried it for a while on a private server, only issue is that I would mostly only get to do it while running dungeons with my Guild mates, since they knew I could pull it off. Most PuGs still frown upon a Shaman tank :( And no, you need those pre-20 spells during the actual leveling! And as you can see in the tool, they actually do catch up with the higher ranks provided that you have enough +Healing

[@MrNikomadsen]

@@ozgar9332 don't worry, I'm already in a guild, as an officer even, that is cool with me trying to pull it off :D

[@daniellassander]

This is what i miss most with vanilla wow, when downranking was important everywhere as a healer yes even in Naxxramas where it was probably the most important.

[@mellowsunset7730]

Great video and tool. Any plans to turn this into an addon?

[@gavinlangley8411]

Great stuff and exactly what I was looking for. I can walk away from the spreadsheets :) An embedded talent calculator and gear picker would be awesome as an option to arrive at the spell / healing power etc while keeping the quick input version. So many possibilities...do you have a git project?

[@robert1790]

My head hurts being a new shaman trying to learn resto lol but its helping me.

[@Wishing77]

Thank You for this tool

[@MrMortadelas]

Is there a chance we get a database or something with sproc rates and/or spell power coefs of items?

[@Ari-fv1nq]

Should rename this Healing Academy lol. Awesome guide!

[@chickenparmsandwich]

I made it to the 10 minute mark before scrolling down to read comments!!! BTW, is this information going to be on the final?

[@wolfblass5628]

This is an excellent presentation. I was hoping it would help with my down-ranking thinking but I don't believe it does. Yes it compares the efficiency and throughput of different ranks of heal spell ... eg. the break-point of approx 210 Spell Power rank 3 v's rank 10 and enables choices to be made around this. But I believe there is another dimension that needs to be factored in - and that is the size of your mana pool ... i.e how much additional mana have to sacrificed to get the additional Spell Power? This is the element I am struggling with - my approach to date has not been to look at HPS or HpME but instead to look at total heal output for a range of Spell Powers, Spell Ranks, Boss Kill Time and Mana Pool sizes over different times you would expect a boss fight to last. e.g 1min , 1.5min, 2.0min, etc. I don't have the ability to work out an equation that determines the breakpoints of the SP v Mana Pool v HPS relationship put i have made a table that helps me select the best gear for different situations. I would be interested in other people thoughts and solutions. Thx

[@alexedingfield5222]

Any chance you could do this for druid's healing touch? I could do the math myself but I dont know where to find the coefficients of healing touch's ranks

[@joshsteinmann2363]

Nice job guys. I subscribed :)

[@efstopp]

Could ya'll do a vid on flightpath tricks? I recall that in TBC there were one or two flightmasters in Kalimdor you wanted to skip because they were in the middle of another, useful flightpath and if you took those masters it would add time to the flight as the bird would check in on that flight master during it's other journey. I have no memory where these were. Someone has told me Ratchet is like that on the Horde side but I don't know which flightpath it extends.

[@loganlarocque4353]

First off i love this video, thank you for the amazing information. I was wondering though as a new priest just hitting 60 is it worth using heal over greater heal? if so do people use multiple ranks of heal of just rank 4? I'm only asking since they are essentially the same spell with greater heal just being a stronger version. Thank you in advance to anyone who can help me out :)

[@encryptx]

This is awesome--just now discovering it. Do you plan to update it for the TBC classic release to include TBC info? :)

[@matthewmccarthy5270]

Very nice video keep it up

[@GamePlays-xo9qn]

such a good breakdown and that tool is excellent! Thank you! shared it to reddit r/ classicwow because you definitely could use more views! Have a 🌮

[@neru9547]

AWESOME! Congratulations for a good job! For the DPS tools you might want to consider adding a wand-spell (something like) comparison. Since Wands are free mana. And some low rank spells might do less damage than some wands/weapons when we are low on SpellPower.

[@ttrdf]

Although I spent almost all my vanilla days on my prot warrior, that wasn't only the downranking healers/casters did, i might go and ask my RL friend who played resto druid but I think they spammed lower ranks and used some other higher ranks in preset events like a big hit or a tank spike

[@hennadystepanov223]

Nice guide, so useful, Tysm. But why is your tick is 3 seconds while healing (15sec-5ticks, 21sec-7ticks)? After all, when regenerating mana, a tick is equal to 2 seconds.

[@WiseWeeabo]

Any vanilla healer that can tell me if you can drink-run in classic like you could in vanilla and can on most pservers?

[@julioiglesiass6505]

Is there a +healing (or +spellpower) cap for healers?

[@runarandersstuen5668]

What is the reference cast time? Also, what about the 5 sec rule. Is it not better to cast one big heal (or high HpS heal), instead of two smaller to get the 5 sec rule ticking sooner, in some cases?

[@DefcampMelderonTV]

The reference cast time is what blizzard uses to calculate coefficients. It's 3.5s for cast spells and 15s for HoT's and DoT's. That's an interesting point that is very hard to explain due to the fact that it is different depending on the encounter. Usually you will be heal sniped, so its better to use more mana efficient spells in raids. But in dungeons, you should optimize both HpME and HpS

[@Turtlemilk]

Wow this was helpful.

[@imotje]

Is the downranking penalty calculated into this (post level 20 penalty)?

[@LOLHaha-rh7fi]

Good stuff

[@masoudkazemi2645]

nice guide thanks a lot

[@kyle3077]

So this works? is based on all classic info and not private server data? asking before i link guild heals aug 2020

[@lunoratic93]

Omfg math sooo much math math math math math math .... amazing breakdown Mel but god damn was that hard to get through lol 😂 😂😂😂😂😂... didn’t realize I was signing up for a god damn college course. Do you have a life? Jesus Christ can’t imagine how much time it took to make that.

[@DefcampMelderonTV]

I had a lot of help with this. But honestly, I really love doing thing like this

[@berrywarmer11]

Never knew about the level 20 penalties. It has some interesting implications especially for level 19 or level 29 twinks if it's actually true - it might make sense to basically wand/auto attack one's way to level 19 / 29 so as to allow for training all ranks of spells at level 19?

[@ozgar9332]

No, it doesn't matter at which level you actually train the rank, it's the level when it becomes available that is used. And you need the lower ranks to be able to learn the higher ones.

[@elliotmyers9071]

Does down ranking hurt your parse?

[@sek9777]

Melderon I respect what you do(And please use Alliance races, especially for a healing guide. Undead priest is unbearable to look at). However, I do think this is exaggeration. It's more fun and also better for the player to evaluate which heal to use in which situation. That "experience and understanding" is ultimately makes them an overall better player/healer. This thing is becoming like those one-button macros that do "the whole rotation" for you, that choose everything for you. Plus, it's not fun. Other than that appreciate the additional information and love your passion for the game.

[@DefcampMelderonTV]

on the contrary, this guide makes you think even more about what heal to use. As stated, likely 10 times in this video, you still need to know what rank to use in what situation. The tool can only provide you insight, not make you a better healer. And, on the faction note, it pains me to even add Alliance images in my guides ;)

[@sek9777]

@@DefcampMelderonTV You seem passionate about the game. So, you'll know that, for the most part, 90% of healing classes are Alliance-based lorewise; Only humans use holy magic and Night Elves are the original/only druids in Warcraft Universe. I can understand some Horde healing for faction-balance purpose s but Undead holy priest is literally the most lore-ignorant thing you can put in a video. Holy Magic burns them, they can not heal by definition. Just the least consistency of healing lore, is all I'm asking. Because the video in itself is great. Very valuable information and great work.

[@DefcampMelderonTV]

@@sek9777 lore is not a concern in this particular video. I suggest compartmentalizing the two a bit more, especially when going to healing theory. In all seriousness, I want to represent the player base in my videos. Lots of people play undead preists, hence they go in the video

[@johanlahti84]

My way of theory crafting back in the day, was to download a dps meter and empty my mana with rank 3, 4 and 5 Healing touch. Then compare hps, total healing. In my testing i came to the conclusion that rank4 was the sweetspot for me. Never knew about the lvl20 penalties tho. If i remember correctly rank 4 was a 0.5 sec faster to cast and that was what made me go with that as my main spell. Might be wrong tho, its like 13 years ago or something.

[@jonm9102]

Math is for nerds! Thanks for the hard work.

[@OvertPumkin]

how do these formulas get effected by talents that reduce the cast time? is it based on the pre-talent cast time or the current cast time of the spell as it is being cast?

[@Lapouchy]

Pre-talent, pre-buff

[@ozgar9332]

As Rym said, the talents and buffs are always applied after other coefficients have been calculated. However, talents will still affect your HpS and HpME, and should be taken in to account while selecting your rank.

[@gaming_racccoon]

So if i got this right. If you learn, let‘s say a spell which is available at lvl 6, after you hit lvl 20, there is no penalty from this pre20 rule?! And if you learn the same spell straight away with lvl 6 you do not get the same „performance“ out of it in the late game? Sorry for the question english is not my mothertongue. And if i‘m right.. what is the purpose of this „rule“? Thx for reply and btw i watched nearly every shaman guide of you in thr last couple of days and i‘m impressed!! Well done sir :)

[@ZblockWoW]

AMAZING

[@samdash3216]

This video gave me a gasm!

[@link998877]

So if i'm understanding this correctly, I shouldn't learn any spells affected by spell power until level 20?

[@ozgar9332]

Hehe, no. They do catch up with the others with enough +Healing. Sub 20 penalty was introduced by Blizzard to counter the incredible power of downranking. But it does not make the spells unusable.

[@DefcampMelderonTV]

As Ozgar said, you definitely want them. the penalty continues throughout your leveling process but they are still useful, sometimes even better than higher ranks

[@jeramiahcox6976]

So, as a druid, leveling in Feral, I should wait and not train healing till after level 20?

[@DefcampMelderonTV]

No you should still train the spells, all we are trying to say is that they have a coefficient penalty. You won't have any +healing so it won't matter. They are still great heals

[@dysenteryking9034]

so heal the tank good. got it

[@BlackBirdBlitz]

OMG. I'm a hunter, and the only thing I can heal is my pet; however, I became immersed by this video/subject. Great job.

[@tunasub8097]

does this still apply to tbc classic?

[@emsavings]

watches this because I want to be a good healer for my guild. Has meltdown with any form of math...

[@KifF2603]

Is this Tool gone ?? Link doesn't seem to work. Wouldve used it for Hardcore now ;D

[@TheSpidyfan]

what if i talent to decrease my cast time, does that effect the coefficient?

[@DefcampMelderonTV]

no, good question. It goes by the untalented cast time

[@Chris-cl5rs]

11:36 so is it recommended to just start learning spells after hitting lvl 20?

[@ozgar9332]

It has been addressed a few time already. But no, the actual level upon which you learn the spell has no effect. It's the level you CAN learn it that is relevant :)