Clearing the Controversy Concerning Cain (JST 41)

[@jasonmay1360]

Excellent review thank you

[@scalarwave8104]

Thank you for this excellent lesson and for clarifying that Brigham wasn’t the bad guy many present him as in regards to race and priesthood. I am wondering however how we explain Joseph Smith ordaining Elijah Able and a few other black men?

[@faithfulsaints1830]

Joseph didn't ordain Elijah Able, that is a myth that his ordination record debunks.

[@TeachingsoftheProphetJoseph]

I know of no documentation saying that Joseph Smith ordained Elijah Abel. But you’re right, it appears that he was aware of it.

[@deborahthornsbury3360]

Whatever people wrote in their diaries that Joseph Smith supposedly said, without proof, never said to the church as a whole, the fact remains that Joseph Smith gave the priesthood to a black man who came to Utah and continued practicing the priesthood until he died, including conferring priesthood to other men in a chain of priesthood still exists among the living today. This fact is undoubtable and verifiable.

[@TeachingsoftheProphetJoseph]

If Jesus, Joseph Smith and Brigham Young testify, and somebody attempts to ordain them, what did they get actually?

[@burpleflemingo7034]

I usually start my gospel studies off with a prayer as part of learning anything gospel related However I just wanted to listen to something from KZbin playing in the background as I worked this morning. What a deep, challenging yet wonderful Gospel lesson that you have taught today. I love the title given to your video, it is very fitting. I have heard, read and studied about some of the points shared especially around Cain and Abel in particular, but not the insights shared from George O. Canon which I hadn't heard before but enjoyed what I heard. Each point raised at various stages along the way to build up to the main points of the topic were in my view well taught and articulated so well. I'm inclined to believe what I have been taught and will study this topic more in depth and with prayer. Thank you for this lesson given. Will you be teaching about when and why this doctrine changed with the Prophet Wilford Woodruff? I would like to hear your take on it because I really enjoyed the way you shared your thoughts on today's podcast lesson.

[@pinecone7562]

When saying that 'we're all adults here'- not all adults are as mature and emotionally mature as we maybe should be, and emotion can hold us back spiritually. Also, there's a ton of anger , bitterness and resentment , culturally, and I hope and pray that everyone can anger

[@lukeslc-xd8ds]

Just wondering that the value is in bringing all of this up at this point in time. What is the reason for doing so?

[@TeachingsoftheProphetJoseph]

To know the truth about this, what does it set you free from? Is the truth ever outdated? Run that you might win the prize.

[@holidayrap]

I know that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true. I have had a physical manifestation borne to me that I am NOT cursed. A great truth that we ALL must accept is that we (including prophets ancient and modern) do not know all of the truth.

[@lukeslc-xd8ds]

Over time, I have learned that I can trust (believe) very little of what I hear or see on the internet.

[@loisleonard9436]

This lesson was NOT in that category.

[@rumtumtugger40]

So at what point prior to the lifting of the priesthood ban in 1978 did descendants of Able receive and exercise the priesthood? And not not just when, but how?

[@MrGillfish5]

Yes. If Abel had no sons how did his seed come into existence and be able to receive the priesthood and therefore allow the curse to be lifted from Cain's lineage

[@bradleyminick8040]

@@MrGillfish5 Remember Seth became a replacement for Abel. Eve said, "God hath appointed me another seed, instead of Abel, whom Cain slew" Seth married the widow of Abel and the first born son of that union would actually be the descendant and patriarchal priesthood line of Abel. This is why the patriarchal priesthood line is traced to Abel in Doctrine and Covenants 84:14-16. Adam, Seth (replacement for Abel), Enos (Son of Abel by Seth), Cainan, Mahalaleel, Jared, Enoch, Methuselah, Lamech, Noah, Shem....Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Ephriam,...the patriarchal priesthood line is continued to Joseph Smith being a descendant of Ephriam, translating the stick of Ephriam, and receiving the patriarchal priesthood. I believe the promises given to Abel continued throughout the restoration, from father to son, until they were fulfilled in 1978. (Anyone who receives a patriarchal blessing is in the lineage of Abel) On that day in 1978, the blessings of the gospel were extended to all. How is the "curse" lifted? It is lifted by us adopting a new father. We are no longer under the curse of a father if he is no longer our father. As we embrace the gospel we are adopted into the priesthood line with Christ as our father!

[@Tiffaneyc5]

It wasn't his seed physically but the spirits of Able in the preexistence that were no longer given that opportunity to be born unto him. They were simply given another way to come down through other ways of birth..

[@rumtumtugger40]

@@Tiffaneyc5 Oh, wow - I hadn’t considered that - very interesting indeed.

[@intignia]

That description of Cain reminds me of Big Foot.

[@creativepoetry]

I see a problem with the story given by the Apostle David Smith. To relate the conversation he had with Cain, it seems Cain was speaking in English, but English didn't exist until it slowly developed in the early days in England, UK, my home country. Perhaps we might say he had enough time to learn English, but to do that he would have had to mingle with English speaking people, and if he did, surely there would many, many more stories of people meeting and talking with that strange dark, hairy person. Any thoughts on the matter??? I'm not knocking the story, I'm trying to understand about the language used.

[@murdog5253]

So you are okay with the idea that he is 6000 years old, but have an issue with him speaking english?

[@kz6fittycent]

You should hear some of the hair raising experiences people have had with "Sasquatch" and hearing voices in their head - not their own voice but other voices. It's possible that Cain and those like him, are able to communicate this way. I am speculating and also assuming that those who've had these experiences are telling the truth.

[@burpleflemingo7034]

I would think that satan and his followers would have something like the gift of tongues but not in the way the Holy Spirit gifts another language to certain individuals. Satan and the men of perdition are walking to and fro on the earth, and I can imagine that they are absorbing everything that every human is saying and doing, in order to know how to better tempt and bruise the feet of all men... he does not sleep and he's had many thousands of years to know us individually and practice what he understands will persuade the minds and hearts to bend to his will; regardless of nationality or language.

[@murdog5253]

@@burpleflemingo7034 They don't need the gift of tongues. It only takes a human a few months of immersion language learning to pick up a new one. Demons don't sleep, don't have imperfect bodies (brains that forget), and are definitely immersed...I suspect that language learning is nearly a completely non issue. also, one should remember that Satan is a linguist in the most evil terms. he twists the languages and words to deceive, and manipulate individuals and the masses. He's been doing it for a very long time...and he remembers every moment start to finish.

[@creativepoetry]

Interesting response to think about. Thank you.

[@halsmith7642]

I like to speculate that the Giza Temple Pyramid awaits the return of Pharos descendants that will recognized the true purpose and meaning of the Pyramids original design and meaning. It is interesting speculation that Giza pyramid inch measurement with Grand gallery entrance at 33 AD and entrance to King and Queens chamber at 1979 AD. Why 33 AD & 1979 AD? Could it have something to do with Christ, Pharos descendants and priesthood responsibilities?

[@halsmith7642]

Is not the priesthood an order of service to fellow men and God? During the restoration, started in the 1830’s and into the present day 2024. No blessings are denied any of God children past, present, and future. God loves all of his children, calls after them and blesses them with light. Should individuals burdened with state sanctioned slavery in 1800’s also be expected to give priesthood service to their legal masters in 1800's?

[@veritasrestituta812]

2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.

[@CMO999]

Wouldn't Cain and all his progeny have been destroyed in the flood tho?

[@peace.love.n.blessings]

Good question

[@Terminatorguy34]

Yes, only Noah, his wife, three of their sons and their wives survived the flood, though it is speculated that Noah's wife maybe the daughter of Lamech and the sister of Tubal-Cain, according to some Jewish traditions. And speculated that Hams wife maybe a descendant of Cain.

[@CMO999]

@@Terminatorguy34 If Noah's wife is a descendent of Cain then we're ALL descendents of Cain!

[@CMO999]

@@Terminatorguy34 If Noa's wife was a descendand of Cain then we all are.

[@joewise5686]

Maybe you plan to get to it in a later episode, but how do you explain the Prophets from President Kimball forward and especially President Nelson, not to mention the Savior on the equality of all? Seems to me that you took some unwarranted liberties with your interpretation of conclusions drawn by those who reported what Joseph Smith had said. Scholarship does matter

[@TeachingsoftheProphetJoseph]

Jefferson said all men are created equal, yet in what sense? …. Certain inalienable rights. God told Abraham in Abraham 3: 18-19, that there is a never-ending gradation of intelligences. We are equal in that we have equal opportunity to live as much of the gospel as we have capacity and faith.

[@veritasrestituta812]

You obviously didn’t really read the book of Jasher it says Cain was killed and hints that the curse was lifted from Cain lol

[@freesparrowsomeday]

If Cain left and went to the land of Nod and found a wife to marry there…….where did those people come from? 🤔

[@jope2123]

I think the Adam and Eve story is mostly told in symbolism.

[@johnowens22]

Adam and Eve had children for many years prior to Cain and Abel being born. Cain and Abel were not the first, but were the first who advanced in the Priesthood and accepted the laws and covenants of the Priesthood that Adam and Eve offered to their children.

[@jope2123]

@@johnowens22 sources?

[@johnowens22]

Moses 5:1-15 they had children and began to divide and go their ways by 2s. Many were born to them. Moses 5:16 - Finally Cain is born. Moses 5:17 - and Abel is born. In the next verses we see Cain offers an offering to God, but he does it at Satan's request, not out of love for God. Abel does offer a righteous offering. This leads me to interpret the previous children did not accept their parents religion fully and desire to serve God. Cain did so deceptively, and Abel did so without guile.

[@Terminatorguy34]

Adam and Eve had many children .

[@ferpie222am]

Cush: Ethiopia/Sudan; Mizraim: Egypt; Phut: Lybia; Canaan: Egypt, Land of Israel, The West Bank and Gaza, Jordan, Southern Syria, Lebanon, parts of Turkey.

[@hollayevladimiroff131]

More fake scriptures done by Joseph Smith who actually thought he could change the word of God, So very disrespectful to God. Proverbs 3:5 Every word of God proves true. Do not add to His word or He may rebuke you.

[@petervincent3560]

Eliza R. Snow was sealed to Joseph, not his wife in the traditional sense.

[@danblackwelder5261]

Thousands of years before Cain and Abel, there were thousands of black Africans on the continent of Africa who would speak over 2000 different languages. Thousands of years before Cain and Abel there were thousands of black aborigines on the continent of Australia who would speak over 200 different languages. Thousands of years before Cain and Abel there were thousands of brown indigenous people in the Americas who would speak over 600 different languages.

[@michaelkrause4905]

No, there was the great flood .

[@laurafuller8528]

We know what happened to every mortal family that didn’t join Noah on the Ark. The flood wiped out all mortal families except Noah’s family. Though he tried for estimated 160 years while building the Ark to get others to join him. God never wipes out His children without sending the prophets to warn first. Joseph Smith once said that as Noah came before the Flood, he (Joseph) comes before the Fire.

[@Justanobody-11]

You may be right. This isn’t a black/white thing. This is a right/wrong thing.

[@lukeslc-xd8ds]

Uuuuuuuuuh, no.

[@Terminatorguy34]

Thousands of years before Cain and Able? No, Adam and Eve were kicked out roughly 6,000 years ago and the flood happened roughly 4,500 years ago.