Susan Greenfield - What is Consciousness?

[@carriersignal]

I always like listening to Susan. Before you can answer questions about consciousness you have to know the proper questions to ask, and it is almost as if the order of the questions somehow matters, like the tumblers in a lock.

[@uremove]

👍👍👍 I like that Baroness Greenfield, who is a multi-award winning neuroscientist, is not at all reticent in describing the difficulties of using science to study consciousness. Great question - what would a scientific solution to the Hard Problem look like? IMO it would have to involve a set of bridging laws, similar to that connecting molecular motion with heat based on an explanatory model that embraced both (ie. with a measurable common to both eg. energy). However, it is the fact that qualia are so different from scientific properties such as mass, spin, charge, frequency etc. and the lack of any common property that makes the Hard Problem so intractable. It is where even advanced theories such as IIT, based on Information as a common property, leaves the explanatory gap unsolved. I think this is where Science’s much neglected sister, Phenomenology, may be of more help. As well as methods such as Husserl’s ‘bracketing’, I would include many of the techniques such as meditation, ascetic practices, silence etc. developed through contemplative religions.

[@ngc-ho1xd]

I love this girl. Her work is seriously needed right now in silicone valley as people struggle with trying to understand large language models.

[@CaptainFrantic]

It seems to me that consciousness is very easy to define and I don't understand why most thinkers seem to believe this is hard. Surely consciousness is simply and purely the ability to have a first person experience ... nothing more, nothing less. I feel that everything else (qualia, thoughts, emotions etc) can be defined as "the contents of consciousness", or "that which consciousness is aware of". I'm probably missing some fundamental (or maybe just purely pedantic) aspect here but I'm truly failing to see how.

[@CaptainFrantic]

Also it occurs to me that dismissing "the humunculus" simply out of hand is unscientific and presumptuous for exactly the same reason as demanding that the humunculus exists ... lack of evidence. There are some questions that "SCIENCE" is simply not able to consider or answer within it's own paradigm and consciousness may well be one of them.

[@cube2fox]

I think we have to drop the "the ability to have" part, since I have the ability to have a first person experience even if I don't currently have such a experience, e.g. during sleep. Then consciousness would mean "first person experience". But what does the "first person" part even say? Are there experiences which are not had in the first person? Surely not! So consciousness would just mean "experience". Now if that is right, this would count as a synonym, but not as a definition, since a definition must involve a (two?) more general concept(s). E.g. both "unmarried" and "man" are more general than "bachelor". A definition seems to be, in the simplest case, of the form "x is A = x is B and x is C". Even considered as a synonym though, "experience" seems to be not perfectly synonymous to "consciousness". For example, beliefs, hopes, desires, intentions are certainly states of consciousness. But are they experiences? Aren't experiences only perceptions and emotions, like seeing the sky or feeling happy?

[@CaptainFrantic]

@@cube2fox Thanks for your thoughtful response. Firstly I agree with you that "the ability to have" term is extraneous and may be replaced by "having". As you state, I might be asleep and yet still have "the ability to be" consciousness but not be conscious at all. Furthermore I take your point about the "first person" term but I still feel it adds value to my definition just by its specifity and explanatory substance. However, it is unclear to me that there is a problem with the synonomous nature of "consciousness" and "first person experience". After all the former is just a word (which needs some sort of definition) but I feel the latter adds at least some level of explanatory detail (the words are already pretty clearly defined). Regarding your point concerning emotions, it seems to me that you're conflating experience with that which is being experienced. I refer again to my initial definitions and reiterate that I feel that ALL of these epiphenomena are "the contents" of consciousness. I am happy to expand on this line of reasoning and debate this further if you would like to continue this conversation.

[@Jopie65]

How do you define "experience"?

[@cube2fox]

@@CaptainFrantic Sure, expand away!

[@charlesqwu]

When did this interview happen -- in 2019 or many years ago?

[@reenatai75]

👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[@hireality]

An advise to you dear Closer to truth: don’t cut you guests off when they just start to get warmed up. You do it constantly during your interviews, you inject unnecessary/untimely opinions instead of letting them getting to their points. That’s not a good practice my dear. Let them talk when you pose a question, especially foundational ones such as this topic.

[@cowboydeath9621]

its hard to answer who is me ? lets say right now someone is normal lets say an hour later that same person is now brain damaged and now in a vegetable state, IS HE STILL THE SAME PERSON ? you can flash light in there face or even a gun and they won't even react its almost a completely different person. I think the soul word is bullshit , but I do think that consciousness is still present in that person who is now in a vegetative state he just can't express himself the same way as a normal person due to the neurons not able to formulate themselves in the same way that a normal person can. Going from rich to poor , or mentally stable to mentally unable or unstable , or mentally vegetatively retarded is just part of the nature of existence which is change is a constant, its a like baby vs an adult. Am I still me as a baby or me now as an adult or old man, again Change is a constant.

[@cube2fox]

She was cut off at the end...

[@cube2fox]

@@KLRJUNE No, she did

[@Therealskxlls]

It’s clear to me that after years of interviewing that the interviewer is no closer to the truth than he was when he started his search. Sure, he knows more about science, but an increase in scientific knowledge doesn’t lead one closer to the ultimate truth, and this is, of course, because not all truths have empirical evidence. Take for example, the proposition “all truths have empirical evidence.”

[@consciousphilosophy-ericva5564]

It seems that truth lies in solipsism. That is the closest we can get to truth, other than that, there are just more questions.

[@Therealskxlls]

consciousphilosophy solipsism is no thing at all, just a concept made up by materialists to strawman idealism in general. There is not one embodied subject, but one disembodied subject that perceives itself through a potentiality infinite number of embodied subjects. This is not solipsism, which presupposes that I exist and not other subject exists.

[@consciousphilosophy-ericva5564]

Well, what I mean is that the only thing I can be certain about is that I do exist. This is truth to me, that is the closest truth.

[@Therealskxlls]

consciousphilosophy yes and no. it can be shown that a ‘Transcendental Other’ must exist because some thoughts and sensations are not willed by the I, but according to my philosophy, a Transcendental Subject (I’).

[@Therealskxlls]

Maybe you could have someone who actually knows about consciousness on your show, like a phenomenologist, so that we can actually learn something about consciousness for once?

[@INFJ_Terez]

Damn 💚

[@daithiocinnsealach1982]

If you told me she was a close relative of Sean Carroll I'd believe you.

[@jairofonseca1597]

Consciousness destroyed 150 years of Materialism.

[@Dnboyy]

nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing is nothing k

[@BradHolkesvig]

Consciousness is the GOD that you read about in the Bible. All created men ( individual consciousness of the whole consciousness ) are like the APPLE SIRI with a voice except much more sophisticated and even more all-knowing.

[@cube2fox]

Buddy, please shut up, you write that crap under every video!

[@BradHolkesvig]

@@cube2fox I'm the only one on Earth who knows exactly what the Consciousness is but if you don't believe it to be true, then you will perish without understanding how you're created and programmed to be who you are in this world.

[@CaptainFrantic]

@@cube2fox Right? If I had the ability to block his comments I'd do it in a heartbeat. But I guess then I'd be unable to give it the thumb down it deserves ... I am conflicted! :D

[@cube2fox]

@@CaptainFrantic Yeah simply thumb down every comment he makes, this should at least push it further down. Also arguing with him is likely hopeless since he seems completely delusional.

[@lopezbill6132]

I'm a christain but that's what I found to be the kingdom of God within me. Spiritual enlightenment

[@hansvehof]

Her answers are too easy. She clearly understands that consciousness exists somehow, and yet this boring attitude..?

[@cube2fox]

She clearly has much more to say about this topic than we hear in this bit.