Dean W. Zimmerman - Why a Mind-Body Problem?

[@badmephisto2]

Consciousness creates the physical self. Both are intertwined, two dimensions of same reality and personality. Primacy is of consciousness not the physical body, that’s why it lives on while the body perishes. Thanks

[@derektrudelle4182]

You got it right, my friend

[@xspotbox4400]

From a physical perspective, thinking is change. For something to change, energy must flow. Here's the problem, energy is a flow between two potentials that try to balance out. We experience flow of thoughts only in one direction, but for something to flow, potentials must be connected. Force always travel both ways. How to translate a basic physical principle to something everybody experiences as conscious awareness, perhaps that's like asking what happens with electricity running trough my computer. It's hard to imagine this pile of silicon, metals and plastics is somehow connected to a river, thermal generators, nuclear power plants, wind turbines and solar panels. It's more easy to visualize various lines of mathematical code switching tiny gates and illuminating diodes. Than we come to a person operating computer, could be manipulating code for some arcane concepts or use another kind of electricity and code, to exchange information with other brains. So we do understand mind and body problem, in principle, and it's strange. Obviously physics can be like that, it's a weird world we live in.

[@mismass7859]

Source is awareness, consciousness is creation, assemblage points of consciousness are brains, in the end everything is just source playing with itself exploring the potential of creation.

[@anveshsharma944]

Acknowledging the existence of mind is consciousness.

[@arberibert5756]

Metacognition rather (self-reflective), consciousness is the experience of sensory input.

[@anveshsharma944]

@@arberibert5756 Meta-cognition (cognition about cognition) is a consequence of consciousness/awareness

[@arberibert5756]

@@anveshsharma944 Yeah nobody is denying that.

[@henryfirus6856]

Man is the embodied breath of Life, an incarnation of the Breath of Life

[@carsonwerner]

Here’s what fascinates me. In serious cases of epilepsy, patients(if under the age of 7) gets up to half of the brain removed! After this they seemingly adjust to life with one half of the brain and can actually live their life very close to normal! Where does consciousness lie the brain?!

[@soubhikmukherjee6871]

Consciousness doesn't lie in the brain. Brains don't exist, that's something you imagined through your consciousness. But you need to become conscious enough to realize that radical nature of reality.

[@carsonwerner]

@@soubhikmukherjee6871lol you act like you know everything

[@kellanaldous7092]

@@carsonwernerHe has all the answers xD

[@suscrieforsubscribing1146]

@@carsonwerner he's a deluded conscious rathar than progressive

[@carsonwerner]

@@suscrieforsubscribing1146 facts

[@soubhikmukherjee6871]

I'm a materialist- the statement is a cultural phenomenon, coming from painfully low states of consciousness. You're God bro, you're God.

[@SC-gw8np]

We’re all parts of God. Har har Mahadev.

[@Shraddhanshu_Shekhar]

1. We have Mind. 2. We have Body. = So we have a problem 😀

[@derektrudelle4182]

What is mind? The mind is the activating agent of spirit. When you are inspired, you are filled with spirit, and then create with the mind. Understanding this is only complicated when you begin with a materialist point of view. Einstein was inspired, then used his mind to make (formulate) his ideas about light and matter.

[@user-bu9nb8wr6e]

Everyone is right in the way they think about this. They are right from their perspective and so there is never a correct answer to this I believe.

[@GUPTAYOGENDRA]

Mind and matter are activities in consciousness.

[@stephenmuth7081]

Baseless assertions are activities in KZbin forums.

[@egosinenomine7038]

your individual consciousness is running in a simulation.

[@yaswanthpakalapati9994]

You are so sure , I really doubt do you ever question your believes

[@yaswanthpakalapati9994]

@@stephenmuth7081 how can they make statements like this . I worry that I live on the same planet with them.

[@stephenmuth7081]

@@yaswanthpakalapati9994 Deepak Chopra made a ton of money with nonsensical word salad. Perhaps Mr. Gupta is attempting the same.

[@soubhikmukherjee6871]

Robert consciousness is not some particular brain states. In fact, all there is is pure infinite consciousness that's running the whole show, not some laws of physics or even dogmatic religion.

[@schmetterling4477]

I have never seen a mind without a body. What, exactly, is the problem supposed to be? Minds are (rare) emergent phenomena of bodies.

[@jamesruscheinski8602]

Could the brain as a whole have something that generates mind / consciousness, i.e. something everywhere in the brain?

[@joshuavan8391]

@@HoneybunMegapack this doesn’t answer the question. The question is, “how do unconscious physical processes produce consciousness”. Pushing the question from a specific part of the brain to the whole brain doesn’t answer that. Also there is an issue for that view anyway. One example is the “visual binding problem”. The part of the brain that processes shapes and the part that process colors are separate from each other. The entire visual cortex has been mapped and these part never interact. So why do we experience a unified visual perception? Just to drive this point home. The whole brain has been studied, and there is no interaction at all. It’s not a “oh we haven’t found it yet problem”.

[@Dion_Mustard]

well some people have large parts of their brain removed and still have full lucid consciousness, so i am not sure consciousness is everywhere in the brain. however, there is also evidence for non local consciousness, so i think consciousness is something entirely unique, and fundamental.

[@daddada2984]

Mind & body... Somehow we are a computer.. God is the human.

[@Dion_Mustard]

@@daddada2984 we are more than computers.

[@williamburts5495]

As a human being you are a body made of inert chemicals, but no matter how long you were to study those chemicals they won't tell you what it is like to be a human being because that experience is purely subjective, your chemical body can't even tell you what it is like to be you as your own distinct individual person. What it is like being human, what it is like being you, that is something understood subjectively and for it to be understood subjectively requires something that has a quality of introversion and since that is a quality of mind there lies the difference between body and mind. But just as there is a difference between body and mind there is a difference between mind and consciousness, mind is something more subtle than the body and consciousness or self is something more subtle than mind. Descartes said, " I think, therefore I am. but the truth is, " I am, therefore I think " thinking requires that you be conscious of the drama that is your life so mental activity just rides along the stream of consciousness. Thought, feelings, emotions, aren't conscious of themselves as being thoughts feeling and emotions but you as the conscious self can compartmentalize the difference between things that are objectively physical and subtle. As Pravrajika Divyanandaprana said, " if you can know something as an object of perception it can't be you " so consciousness is something even more subtle than mind. Being that difference ( subjectivity, objectivity ) is what makes knowledge possible duality must exist for there to be knowledge.

[@sanjayvarma7842]

Very good framing of the core questions about dualism starting around 7:00

[@TheTroofSayer]

The mind-body problem, within the context of its Cartesian-dualism, assumes that the brain controls the body. What it neglects is that the body wires the brain. Or to be more precise, experiences intercepted by the body are what wire the neuroplastic brain. A key consideration: The functional specializations in the brain are determined not in the genes, but through experiences intercepted by the body. Bodies with complex eyes, hands and vocal chords will intercept experiences that are vastly different to bodies with poorly developed eyes, sonar hearing, and bat wings (for example). Experiences, filtered through the body, involve every neuron's participation to try to make sense of them, and it is around these experiences that the neurons swarm (self-organize). [A further key consideration: Consciousness is PROCESS, it is not fixed like computer hardware is fixed. Instead, it changes with experience. But I digress... this takes us beyond the immediate question as it relates to the mind-body problem] The brain as a colony of neurons, with its functional specializations, is directly analogous to the city as a colony of people, with its own functional specializations. Seen in this way, with experiences impacting on self-organization, there is no mind-body problem at all. On the other hand, by contrast, trapped in the context of mind directing the body, we encounter all the problems of the Cartesian dualism that plagues Occidental, Judeo-Christian culture. Cartesian dualism typically assumes genetic organization, from the bottom-up. But experiences intercepted by the body are top-down, from the outside in, and this simple distinction makes all the difference in the world. With the mind-body "problem" out of the way, we can now better understand the role of culture in shaping personality. Agency theory relates (some researchers are increasingly taking agency theory seriously).

[@readynowforever3676]

(Thanks for using paragraphs. It would have been difficult to take you serious & I would have therefore elected not to read your exegesis of human progression. Despite the content being otherwise exactly the same. A little thing called “paragraphs”). “Functional specializations”. Thomas Morgan, a postdoctoral fella out of UC Berkeley, said that: “Our findings suggest that stone tools weren’t just a product of human evolution, but actually drove it as well, creating the evolutionary advantage necessary for the development of modern human communication and teaching.” Why did Homo sapiens exist for 10,000s of years as Hunter Gatherers (surely we had all those same “functional specializations”) ? I mean (for example) why did our species go to the Moon in 1969 instead of say 15000 BCE? You say “...experiences impacting on self organization”. What influences or is the driver for “experiences”? Could it be environment? Why did the species decide to create/invent civilization? Could it have been a mere accident? Do you or are you aware of historical not just reputable but credible verifiable evidence that the development of our species is by chance? Or do you think the evidence shows the initial catalyst to be cognizant processes? Is the very dynamic that is special about “functional specializations”, that it must be fluid rather than stagnant? Does a (for example) batwing not have a “functional specialization”? Or is that the batwing can only (and forever just) do that specific specialization? So has the species needed to and will continue to need to rely on evolving “functional specializations”? Or have we already reached the summit? In any event, we’ve advanced enough to cogitate and communicate on these very suppositions & propositions. 🙂

[@TheTroofSayer]

​@@readynowforever3676 The first time I read your reply I didn't have time to reply to your very relevant questions. Reading through it a second time... there's much to cover, so I'm still in the same position. So I'll try to reframe where I'm coming from in more simple terms. As it is over here, so too, it is over there, stars and galaxies away. Life and cultures will occur ANYWHERE where the conditions are right (CHNOPS - no, it's not a German beverage - the basic atoms and molecules of life have been shown to exist throughout the cosmos). So you need to look at your axioms... what assumptions should we make that accounts for life as inevitable? There's nothing magical about functional specializations... it relates to agency theory, and anywhere that you have a colony, whether it be a colony of neurons, or bees, or humans, you have the colony self-organize into functional specializations. Throughout the cosmos, anticipate every manner of intelligent culture, whether humanoid or not. I think that most will probably be stuck in some kind of hunter-gatherer phase. A culture that can send people to the moon might be a temporary accident, a brief glitch in the fabric of space-time... unless we learn some vital lessons, which is not happening. Look at the absurdity of the post-Trump clown culture that is unravelling before our eyes. I think western culture is in steep decline, destined to some new kind of third-world hell-hole... UNLESS SOMETHING DRASTIC HAPPENS TO OUR LIFE SCIENCES (hence my interest in this forum). Without a synthesis of good science with credible religion, I think we're finished. The answers will never be found in the battle between fake scientism and the anthropocentric religions portraying humans as "special" (I held hopes for Intelligent Design until they started to take human exceptionalism seriously). We need to discover our animal natures, and how we are not really all that different to other creatures. Human exceptionalism has been a disaster to progress in the life sciences... and to our ability to understand our true natures.

[@arnolddsouza7846]

Can you believe Dean is 71 years old

[@abdulkaderalsalhi557]

CTT is a thought provoking platform. Understanding what is 'thought', however, is not easy! Someone had said: I think, so I exist. Mind- Body problem arises because they are of different nature. Mind is analogous to software while Body is a hardware. Computer-softwares are designed, written and activated by Human-Mind, but who writes the software-in-the- mind? For atheist, Mind is a self-supporting entity as is the universe at large. But, for a theist, Mind is a demonstration of God's Act as is the entire universe. Seemingly, Software loaded to (or self-generated by) brains of theists and atheists are different. Mind- Body problem can be visualized as a software-hardware relationship. Having said that, still; consciousness, emotions and thinking need a justified explanation.

[@radiometer]

The only thing that's really important is whether we can survive death in any way or not. If we don't have a soul that is eternal then what's the point in the universe or anything? It would be silly to have the universe if it wasn't serving a real purpose.

[@Dion_Mustard]

I prefer to use the word consciousness, not soul. IF consciousness is not produced by brain neurons, then in theory, consciousness is eternal.

[@redmed10]

Yes so silly

[@davidjohnston710]

How can a material brain give rise to planned movements or actions? Example: I think I will blink my eyes three times at precisely 3:00. And then does it. Or, watch me; I’ve decided to wiggle my index finger right now. Matter alone doesn’t decide these things, or even what college major to pursue. It is resident in a mind somewhere in soul energy, which is resident in the 3D world (until death), and communicating with the brain through a type of very high frequency radio inductance, yet undetected with our electronics. Material brains decay at death, but a soul goes on existing. Death is the enormous impetus for the mind-body question, and the desire to continue living and have more than a temporary “purpose”.

[@davidjohnston710]

@@HoneybunMegapack “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” ‭‭John‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬ If you wish to refute this, OK. But if you believe He died and resurrected, then we have some demonstration that it is possible. Check out the many NDEs on YT also.

[@ChuckBrowntheClown]

What if it's our thoughts that let them in? Or it says in the Bible behold I stand at the door and knocked. Thoughts open doors. Cause how else do you get full of feelings and perceptions and judgments and sensing thoughts?

[@ChuckBrowntheClown]

@@realitycheck1231 they seem to not be living in reality, they do need a reality check. I know I'm being kind by sharing.

[@ChuckBrowntheClown]

@@realitycheck1231 Word of God is what gives me my awareness or discernment. Jesus Christ is the one that keeps me in check.

[@ChuckBrowntheClown]

@@realitycheck1231 wether you accept Jesus Christ or not he's still real, and died and resurrected.

[@ChuckBrowntheClown]

@@realitycheck1231 the biggest miracle case I know is Jesus Christ.

[@pentosmelmac8679]

Its all a dream. Material projects from consciousness. Its quite easy to understand if you turn the whole problem around and proceed from the self as the origin.

[@soubhikmukherjee6871]

Hell is empty. All the devils 😈 have been living on the planet earth. - William Shakespeare ❤

[@bluelotus542]

The conscious self is outside of space, and can interact with it only through the power of the supreme conscious self.

[@nyworker]

Mind is not just what happens in the neurons but more importantly to an engineer like myself, it is what happens between neurons.

[@amadiohfixed1300]

I have actually seen people who have a body and don’t have a brain, so they don’t have this problem I think they’re called tiktokers

[@kuroryudairyu4567]

💖

[@heavymeddle28]

Arigato

[@lipingrahman6648]

The mind body problem is a mundane issue only still around not because it is a mysterious thing but is simply the last little corner that philosophers can hide in. And that’s just sad.

[@redmed10]

Good to know you have all the answers. Must be great for you. I've been struggling with the infinite size of the universe all my many years. Wish I'd realised at the age of 6 or 7 that I would have no real answer even when I reached 60. I would have saved myself a lot of stress.

[@TupacMakaveli1996]

Zombie cannot be hypothesized because given there is no different between phenomenology, we cannot conclude one does not have consciousness without acting like us as well.

[@danzo1711]

There is no problem. It is obvious that the mind is a distinct substance from the body or brain.

[@dougsmall5492]

You are points of attention in 1 consciousness. BUT you are duplicitous.

[@hgracern]

How could a brain think? We can’t create a thought. Thoughts always refer to sensory images, which depend on senses of course. Sensations/body precedes seeing a brain scan. Beaut interview tho, thank you. No there’s no space time. 💕

[@heavymeddle28]

Undrar hur många som fattar vad jag skriver?!. 😅

[@Lalakis]

Det gör jag

[@heavymeddle28]

@HonkyDonky d var som fan. 😅Var i Sverige?

[@heavymeddle28]

@HonkyDonky aaah kuligt. Nacka, orminge 13 km från c Stockholm. Men jag har inte varit hemma på 8-9 år. Drog t Thailand å fastna här. Säg hej t sve från mig 😊

[@videosbymathew]

But unicorns exist!

[@matishakabdullah5874]

Body is made of matter so it every part of it from quarks to body as whole is obedience to respective laws of nature for each respective layer. In brief matter is subjected to and obedient to the set of physical and chemical laws of naturr. One can't turn one's head 180° to see things at the back even one wishes to. Mind matter is different from body matter. Mind can even imagine and/or think things outside and/or the reach of the physical matter reality, some are ontologically don't even exist. Mind behaves differently from matter; human especially who has freewill and able to choose. Implies mind is obedience to different set of laws of nature. It is something like light; without light a room is dark. Without soul body matter - a dead body - is in total darkness, every part does not function. The essence of light itself is a dark em-wave that human can't see through naked eyes. It so created that human beings have no mean or instrument to see their souls. Laws and principles can only be created by a living intelligent being the have power and control over his subjects according to what he created and wanted. Human intelligent and knowledge can create robot that may twist it neck 180° but as anything else created by human doesn't have mind with subjective consciousness. Also human unable to create matter and make laws of nature but gifted with ability and power to certain extent rule nature according to the laws of nature. Implies that human and nature ( the universe) were created by and are under the control of A Supreme Intelligent Being (Who is humanly defined or called God).

[@matishakabdullah5874]

One certain law or rule of nature made by The Almighty God is that a normal human unable to revive a living body with soul after it dead but can animate matter by supplying physical energy.

[@matishakabdullah5874]

The similarity in behavior of light and soul in mentioned in the Quran Chapter 3 Verse 27; Surah Aal-e-Imran, Verse 27: Thou(Allah) makest the night(darkness) to pass into the day(light) and Thou makest the day to pass into the night, and Thou bringest forth the living from the dead (by breathing soul into it) and Thou bringest forth the dead from the living (by removing soul from it), and Thou givest sustenance to whom Thou pleasest without measure. تُولِجُ اللَّيْلَ فِي النَّهَارِ وَتُولِجُ النَّهَارَ فِي اللَّيْلِ وَتُخْرِجُ الْحَيَّ مِنَ الْمَيِّتِ وَتُخْرِجُ الْمَيِّتَ مِنَ الْحَيِّ وَتَرْزُقُ مَن تَشَاءُ بِغَيْرِ حِسَابٍ (English - Shakir) via iQuran.

[@anveshsharma944]

Mind is an outcome of brain evolution. It is a marketplace for thoughts, emotions and memory where the instrument of exchange is language.

[@tahamohammedi5898]

Well, there's absolutely no evidence for that, and it's just the easy way to go

[@pzolsky]

Where is long-term memory physically stored, if the relevant molecules are completely replaced every few years?

[@anveshsharma944]

@@pzolsky Episodic memory is stored in hippocampus. Long term memory has a distributed storage in the form of electrical circuits throughout the cortex.

[@anveshsharma944]

@@tahamohammedi5898 Do you mean to say no evidence for mind?

[@pzolsky]

@@anveshsharma944 Electrical circuits? But the structure of these 'circuits' is in a constant state of replacement. How can genetic code, when replacing the cell structures, replace a personal memory? This is information that we 'experience', not genetic information.

[@jeremyduguay3640]

There is no problem.

[@soubhikmukherjee6871]

Reality is God's aka ours aka everything else's infinite consciousness and love. All else is the creation of consciousness. See the amazing book 📖by Hofstadter. Godel's incompleteness theorem and quantum mechanics debunked materialism 100 years ago.

[@bartholomewtott3812]

Nothing to see here.

[@derektrudelle4182]

How does the brain produce the mind? It doesn't. This is backwards. An explanation for mind will never be found in a materialist world view. Save yourself time and stop looking there. The mind split from Spirit, which made it a perceiver rather than a knower. The ability to perceive made the body possible, because you must perceive something WITH something. It was for this that the body was made. It's sense looks out on a world that is not true. The body's senses are part of the world for which it was made, which establishes the illusion that it is real. When you withdraw investment in physical sight as a source of truth, you begin to restore your mind to its wholeness.

[@cps_Zen_Run]

As with all mammals, we have consciousness. This is an emergent property of a complex brain. We are aware yet deceived that a self exists.

[@truebomba]

Mind is more than consciousness. You can be conscious without experiencing subjectivity. There is no deception in mental categories and judgments, if that's only a deception how do you explain maths and sciences as descriptive of reality? This "desiptive" explanation is self referencing and contradictory in many levels. This why it has few proponents in philosophy although popular among some new atheists.

[@mrshankerbillletmein491]

I think therefore I Am

[@somethingyousaid5059]

Never mind my body.

[@franksalo3466]

Are we more then configurations of electrified goo in our brains...probably.

[@Imnothere59]

Real question for dualist is how do you know consciousness is another dimension

[@francesco5581]

Dont know if it have really to be now in another dimension , for many is more something inside that expand/get free in the time of death. A matter of energy that can be either materialist (Penrose/Hameroff) or spiritual. This is of course based on perceptions of where the "I" is.

[@Dion_Mustard]

study out of body experiences and you will understand

[@experiencemystique4982]

The human projection is amazing...the discussion is ever supported by dicotomy, but, they believe without effective proofs in theories, they studied them, they try to accommodate them but until are not proofs... it's like the spiritual domain. Faith, not in a superior intelligence, but their own???? Weird

[@jorgemachado5317]

The mind-body "problem" is kind like the flat-round earth "problem"

[@ujjwalbhattarai8670]

Time=everything, science=illusion. religious=god.

[@dougsmall5492]

God is not in religion. God and religion are diametrically opposed. Time is just rotation Science is religion.

[@ujjwalbhattarai8670]

@@dougsmall5492 Just I'm going to say. Time=science and religion.

[@readynowforever3676]

What kind of drugs are you two guys on ? Drugs (plus Homo sapiens) = (must equal something)

[@dougsmall5492]

@@ujjwalbhattarai8670 God EL Elyon is the truth. Religion means to bind in bonds. The truth is to set you free. These things are diametrically opposed.

[@ujjwalbhattarai8670]

@@readynowforever3676 God has no religion. we believe god as religious so today world in problems. No yours god no my. All god. No reigion. time=god

[@danskiver9195]

What ever happened to mind body and soul. Seems to clear up a lot of problems in philosophy and fits Bible teachings.

[@bozo5632]

Mice are conscious.

[@bozo5632]

@@HoneybunMegapack Even bacteria, to a tiny extent. It's normal animal stuff. No hocus pocus.

[@maxwellsimoes238]

Dean model not solve equation mind body he solution is common sense facts. He hasnt principles true mind body. Only rhetoric

[@genomicmaths]

Very poor discussion 🧐

[@bajajones5093]

this man had nothing to say. he should study Advaita. Lost soul right now.