Closing Gappy Mitres in Picture Frames

A pull saw closes gaps in mitres of a picture frame yielding four perfect corners.

[@bobt2522]

Thank you for the video, George. It was the first time I have watched one of your videos. It was educational and enjoyable. Here are a few of the details that stand out to me. You dressed like a professional. You spoke calmly and clearly. You used the word "normal" correctly. Your responses to comments are respectful and courteous. As you showed each corner, I saw a similarity to the 5-cut method of squaring the fence on a table saw. You make multiple cuts (that are almost at the correct angle) and the final cut reveals the cumulative error. I suppose one could measure the gap, perform a few calculations, and know how much to adjust the mitering jig. Keep up the great work!

[@georgefouriezos8863]

Bob, what a delightful comment! I drank it in. Your suggestion on tweaking the mitre jig makes a lot of sense, Ng style. But I had not made it adjustable. In fact it had been quickly slapped & glued together from scrap wood (without the s). When I make another I'll a) use better material and b) incorporate a fuss-fuss dial or two so that the frame that it produces can help calibrate the jig for the next one, following the process you suggest. Thanks for the suggestion, and thanks again for your lovely feedback!

[@geraldgreen1395]

Thank you George for your video. I make and decorate my own 4 inch wide Obeche plain wood picture frames using a specialist fine cut 100 tooth blade on a cross cut mitre saw to cut the mitres. What I find to be a recurring problem is that any very slight twist in the timber itself will inevitably create gaps at the corners, or at least some unevenness along the line of the mitre between adjacent sides. To remedy this I glue and pin the frame using a Kimberley tabletop underpinner and secure the whole thing using old fashioned mitre corner clamps and string ensuring it all lies flat. Inserting a thin wedge at the relevant corner at this stage, will, I have found, remedy any slight twisting in the frame. When set I remove the corner clamps and fill any gaps using a paste made from Obeche saw dust and epoxy glue which I apply with my fingers pulling it into the gap and wiping any excess from the surface before allowing it to dry. Final sanding will result in precise mitres, which, show no joint line after decoration.

[@georgefouriezos8863]

That sounds like a very effective cure. Thanks for telling me about it. (Wedges and splits have come to the rescue for me too from time to time.)

[@lonesonestarcattlecompanyj408]

Thank you for no obnoxious intro music.

[@georgefouriezos8863]

And no begging for likes either. Thank you for commenting, Lonesone.

[@lswhere40]

My memory is as good as the rewind button. :) Thanks for the video!

[@georgefouriezos8863]

OMG Me too!

[@eaalaw2]

Simple, instructive and to the point. I understand. thx

[@georgefouriezos8863]

Thank you for the positive feedback, eaalaw2; it starts my day with a smile to read comments like yours.

[@storm7610]

Thank you for your video great job I am going to use this method for sure 👍

[@georgefouriezos8863]

Hi Storm, There are a few KZbin videos showing us how to make dead-perfect mitre sleds for our table saws but I just never was able to achieve their results. Correcting after the fact works for me. And the cut quality of a fine kerf pull saw is excellent. Thanks for taking the time to endorse the video, and best success with your frames!

[@dabprod]

I have a Morso chopper that I bought over 25 years ago and used it in a small home based production frame shop. I've run THOUSANDS of feet of molding through it and have NEVER had that problem you showed. Its all in the miter cut. It has to be exact or you'll always have that problem. Nice video.

[@georgefouriezos8863]

Sounds like the Morso chopper is the way to go, especially if frames form part of someone's income. Thanks for telling me about it.

[@weave171]

Wow, I looked up a Morso chopper and they start at $4585. At the profit margin of picture frames, I think you would have to make 4585 of them to break even. 🙂 Thanks for the tip, I never knew this product existed. Adding this to my wish list for when I hit the Powerball.

[@dabprod]

@@weave171 You can find used ones on line. $1000-1500. Check framers grumble, or Google used picture framing equipment. There's lots of this kind of stuff for sale, used. Good Luck.

[@TheWoodYogi]

Very enjoyable video George :) Nicely demonstrated. I don't have anything to add as I use a similar method, but it will be interesting to read about any methods others use ॐ

[@georgefouriezos8863]

I agree, it would be great to read how others handle rogue mitres. Thanks for commenting W.Y.

[@lakshmikpunugu4735]

Appreciate GEORGE SIR, THE VIDEO SHOWS YOUR EXPERIENCE, MATURITY, AND PATIENCE....., I ALSO SEE MORE QUALITIES IF AN EXPERIENCED PERSON,

[@georgefouriezos8863]

Thank you for making the effort to comment, lakshmi, your kind words are deeply appreciated.

[@jimlad01]

Thanks for the video George. Perhaps a mitre shooting board might be handy also?

[@georgefouriezos8863]

For sure, no question about it. In this instance, though, the mirror frame was as large as my bench. The hand saw method meant I did not have to take the frame apart and remount it between cuts. Thank you for commenting Jim.

[@deemdoubleu]

Thanks for the video, I'm suffering the same problem (although too late, I've glued up and didn't notice, oh well). I'd like to ask an obvious question (well it occurs to me anyway): My Dad is a retired Joiner and when he showed me how to mitre a door surround in my new house when I was younger, he made a point of saying that the wood you are given is rarely perfectly straight and this can cause problems with the mitres. He showed me how to close fit the mitre (these are usually nailed instead of glued around here) and then bend or crank the rest of the frame in to true. So I wondered in this case if you couldn't slightly pull in (i.e. bow) two sides of the frame slightly to make the mitre good and then glue up. Then, after glue has set, release the force. I presume in any case that you cut the mitres really accurately and also the lengths of each side, so surely the only thing that can go wrong is that the wood isn't straight anyway or the mitres were cut off the wrong or mixed reference sides if the wood i.e. if the lengths are equal and the mitres are perfect and they fit well then by definition the sides must be straight. Just a thought!

[@georgefouriezos8863]

Hi deemdoubleu. It's always great to learn about a different way to address a woodworking issue. Thank you so much for writing it here in the comments. As for a gap in a glued mitre let me mention that re-sawing a gapped mitre also works after the corner has been glued together. It is just a matter of making sure to clear wood of glue on both sides of the saw. Here's hoping you still have access to the frame. And thanks again for contributing your dad's technique.

[@evanking6737]

Another option is to free the glued mitre joint. drop your glued frame from about 100mm (4 inches) onto a soft floor covering (carpet or rubbermat) on an angle so the point of the mitre makes contact. You will hear a soft snap noise as the glue on the joint hitting the floot releases its hold. The glue on the diagonally opposite mitre also releases. if you want the other two mitre joints released as well, then drop it on the other corner. This works even if you have stapled the mitre joints together from underneath.

[@bryanbrett8943]

Tie in a shop......big no no! Well maybe not His shop. Lol Pretty awsome though...loved it!

[@georgefouriezos8863]

Hi Bryan, glad to hear you liked the video. Thanks for saying as much. As for the ties: they're for making videos in the shop, not for working in the shop.

[@tributetomama]

Thanks George. Such a great method. I seem to have 3 corners that go together so well and then that last one........ Also do you use a mitre sled for your table saw. I've been using a chop saw. Sometimes it works perfectly and sometimes it doesn't.

[@georgefouriezos8863]

Hi Deborah, I bounce between using a hand pull-saw with a shop-made mitre block; the table saw's mitre gauge screwed into a board; and a mitre sled. None of them are correction free. Like you, I sometimes get corners that don't need correction, but more often than not the fourth corner needs a shave. After reading woodwrk1212's comment, I tried a freehand correction with a pull saw, and it worked flawlessly, so I no longer use a 45 degree guide. Just following the joint once or twice fixes things. A pull saw is preferred over a Western saw because of its thinner kerf and because tearout mightl occur on the outside where it can easily be repaired. Thank you for commenting and best to you.

[@tributetomama]

@@georgefouriezos8863 Thanks so much.

[@AllesohneKabel]

Nice Video 👍😀

[@georgefouriezos8863]

Thank you Günters, it's always great to read that the video was appreciated.

[@rdfreiwald1954]

Thank you for a very good video! I do have a question about your block. You mentioned that yours was custom made on a 3D printer. Is there a commercially made version available? Or is there an alternative to 3D printing? I appreciate any help you can give me! Thanks Again!

[@georgefouriezos8863]

Hi Rick, Because I have one, I too often think the 3D printer is the solution to everything. Someone commented that he closes gaps with no guide, just a pull saw and clamps. I tried it. I no longer use the guide block; it is completely unnecessary.

[@rdfreiwald1954]

@@georgefouriezos8863 Thank you for the fast and helpful response! I'll give it a go tomorrow. Thank you again, and Happy Holidays!

[@Woodwrkr-up5ss]

I’ve used the same technique without a guide and that works well too.

[@georgefouriezos8863]

I wondered whether a guide was needed. Reading this, I'm going to try going without one next time a mitre needs repair. Thank you for commenting WW1212.

[@tributetomama]

Just curious how you can be certain you have a true 45 degree angle without a guide. Sorry, I'm a newbie woodworker and am playing catch up at my age.

[@SilverFox-1212]

@@tributetomama I used the existing gap as the guide. Like George said and showed it might take a couple of cuts to get a really good alignment. By cutting both pieces at the same time any imperfections in one will mirror the other piece. This is what I call the woodworkers theory of relativity. “Its all relative”, one piece is relative to the other.

[@tributetomama]

@@SilverFox-1212 Thanks so much will try without a guide, seeing as how my guide would have to be spot on perfect.

[@SilverFox-1212]

@@tributetomama I am sorry I didn’t answer your question properly about the 45 degree angle. I will try to answer it a little better. George explained that when he re-saved the corner that his other corner was off a little. I don’t remember if it was the opposite corner or not ( it usually is) but by adjusting the opposite angle it would compensate for the degrees needed for all angles to equal 360 degrees. In a perfect world you need 4-90 degree corners, but as long as the totals equal 360, then you should be “relatively” square. Remember, our goal is to reach perfection in our project but this will never happen or if you do it will be short lived.....WOOD MOVES with the addition or subtraction of humidity (it’s part of God’s Devine plan and his sense of humor) (at least it helps me to accept my shortcomings). Hope this helps a little more.

[@woodywood1951]

it's not superstition! when you pull the blade, you stretch it. To compare with a string: pull on the string it stretched it, push on the string it folds on itself.

[@georgefouriezos8863]

What a perfect comparison Olivier, you cannot push a string. I pussy-footed when I made the point hoping to avoid starting an East-West Saw Debate. Needless worry, though, as my viewers seem to be really level headed.

[@lawrencelewkow152]

I spent a morning making Michael Alm’s picture frame miter jig and my miters are all virtually perfect now. If you make one make sure to buy an aluminum square and not a steel one otherwise you’ll kill your saw blade

[@georgefouriezos8863]

That really is a nice mitre jig. Thanks for telling us about it. Here's its URL: kzbin.info/www/bejne/g6OToWV6gbWHqtU

[@rickkinney1249]

the reason that the fourth corner does not come together correctly is that the other three ARE NOT perfect 90 deg cuts---they may come together EVENLY but the are either more or less than perfect 90 deg----and all of the error shows up in the last corner---cut them correctly and you wont have to make excuses and rework regards

[@georgefouriezos8863]

Thanks Rick.

[@georgefouriezos8863]

@Andrew Shaver Thank you so much Andrew for the kind comment. I just went to our main bathroom to take a look at its mirror frame -- the object in that video -- and it still looks good with tight joints all 'round.