Cloud of Darkness Chaotic: Awesome Fight, Horrible Experience

[@black-velvet98]

If this fight wasn't a 24 man alliance, it wouldn't be this hard x'3

[@garynguyen4253]

Any party is tower memes lmao it doesn't matter where prog you will wipe to towers and you will like It. Manage to clear day two but have only gotten two clears so far and that basically sums out how memey this fight is

[@cherryindil8869]

even in farm party :(

[@Nillabeans1]

it blows my mind. towers are so easy! how do people contantly fuck them up?? look at the raidplan guys smh

[@rcpoisond]

99% of tower memes are a result of gaze PvP :P

[@Saiga906]

People quitting after three pulls is something that has been plaguing Fru as well, people have been a lot less patient lately.

[@jonamar3965]

Agreed. PF give the flexibility to play when you want, but that also means there's no guarantee how long you get to engage with content. I do hope that the discord that came about due to Chaotic can adapt to growing a midcore community by branching out to savage prog groups!

[@vex4859]

i dont got time for people who say p5 prog and cant do p1 shit

[@Saiga906]

@@vex4859 That's an extreme case, still people that leave after just three pulls that are the actual griefers for taking the place of someone actually willing to commit and making the others lose time, easy pass to my blacklist.

[@AzureRoxe]

We went from WoW raiders legit doing HUNDREDS of pulls before finally succeeding to crybabies that leave after just 1 or 2.

[@Pikaru-c4u]

@@vex4859this is the normal. I’m luck it took only 6 clears for more than enough with the hairs

[@silverwill-x7v]

I do believe that content similar to this could work, but the devs really need to go back to the drawing board and reassess some things. I have seen more toxic outbursts in the last week than the past 5 years I've been playing this game combined. And having had a 17 hour stretch between clears and dying to flares in P1 in a farm party, I've almost lost my temper too. This fight is unhealthy for the game, it's players and the community as a whole.

[@ravennesvr8103]

In the span of 1 week, i added roughly 50 people to my blocklist... yeah its very unhealthy

[@OlveshTTV]

I think they will learn a lot from this first Chaotic raid. I am an avid fan of Delubrum Savage and Baldesion Arsenal. This is my kind of content and yet, I don't feel too enticed of doing it. I progged up to towers, and when I realized no one seemed to understand this mechanic and kept hurting my head into the same wall, I just stopped and played something else. I dont know when I'll hop back in Chaotic, but damn would I love to have a premade of at least 7 other people I know with me. WoD Chaotic just came out and I already want the next, most likely improved, second one out.

[@oszaszi]

This is nothing like BA... in BA you can go in with very minimal preparation. You are encouraged to talk to each other. It gives time to breath, be friendly and nice. This is just a one boss 24 man savage. Savage raids are not peak mmo experience. When was the last time you had a friendly banter or discussion in a savage raid? You dont. The only thing spoken about is if someone fails a mechanic. So the only social experience you get from these is when someone shittalks you.

[@d0k0night]

@@oszaszi hear hear. Savage raids kinda suck. They're not fun.

[@hawgacrux]

⁠​⁠@@oszaszi This. In short BA is a real raid while chaotic is just another boss fight. It’s just more of the same old treadmill in knowing your position or wipe. I honestly don‘t get why the „top“ content creators out there hype it so much as the arrival of Jesus for this game. It’s just another savage fight with more people. How is it’s any special outside of the rewards? I disagree with Aitherea on some topics but imo here she is one of the few who actually echo the general feedback I saw in the comments, social media and even ingame. Even the Japanese side is not too happy with it.

[@OlveshTTV]

@@oszaszi You're ranting more about Savage than what the Chaotic raid is... I never said Chaotic was EXACTLY like BA, just another large group activity, in the same vein as BA and DRS. It just falls into the same pool for me. I'm sorry you've had bad experiences with raiding, I haven't, or if I did I climbed over it and moved over to the next one. I've had friendly banters and discussion in a savage, even ultimate raid setting, even 11 days later, I've had really cool people in PF while trying to get Chaotic clears. Best of luck o7

[@HippeusOmega]

After enduring another 8 hours of PF tonight with no clear and people constantly leaving im just done with this raid. Just not worth it.

[@Pikaru-c4u]

U can do it, I did

[@HippeusOmega]

@Pikaru-c4u i had posted another comment saying I had gotten my first clear a couple days later after this post and was on my steam deck no less.

[@GCarv0301]

Nice to hear a rant about the hell we've all been going through. I bet a good metric for how toxic this has been is if we could see statistics on use of the blacklist feature pre/post cod release. I was hoping this would be fun.

[@shanehunt3019]

This fight is basically "The problems with high end party finder, placed underneath an electron microscope"

[@hawgacrux]

All of this echoes my experience with this fight. Great fight itself but an absolute nightmare in PF to the point I haven’t done it again after clearing. It is just so soulcrushing and toxic in every aspect and showed the true side of the community to me. I play since around HW and honestly have never seen such straight contempt for casual players or nonraiders who attempt this fight even though I understand the reasoning behind it. Honestly I fear this raid will have the opposite effect it wants to have. Instead of bringing new people into harder content it might actually repel them from it. So many parties that just straight up don’t have fun in this fight. They overdid it with the body checks. If those weren’t there or at least lesser… Great video.

[@LupusArcavius]

Yeah I’ve been noticing that people lately just don’t have the patience to help new players. And when you have this many people in one piece of content that is exacerbated even more. I been playing since mid ARR and the community has changed so much. Seems like everyone is just focused on the clear, like checking off an item in a list instead of having fun with the content and playing with others. For me on a personal level this content is giving me the opportunity to join prog and clear parties even though I’ve cleared just to help and get first time bonus if we clear. Savage punishes the community for helping and maybe that contributed to the divide in the community. Everyone is so focused on the clear and you can’t even help your friends get into high end content because they won’t get completion rewards. I hoped this content would have the same effect on the community that it had on me but after seeing the comments on this video I’m starting the think maybe not

[@d0k0night]

After trying out M4S (my first savage raid ever), the static that I was trialing with made me basically not want to continue to do it. They were all very nice people, let's be clear. But the expectation that you "just get" all the mechanics...when you've never seen them before...and even though they say in a very nice way "hey we've been telling you how to do this for the past while but you're still messing it up" basically broke the straw on the camel's back. This game is not fun when it comes to savage content.

[@Decus86]

I think the ff community is overrated in general. People say it's so nice and helpful, but they are really just contained by SE's community policy. This raid just showed some of those true colors to people that haven't seen the insane dramas ff players conjure up. And I say that coming from a pvp mmo xD And yeah, high end xiv raids are basically about memorization of the dance steps. Jobs are so simple now that it's the only way to make it challenging and I've questioned if I enjoy it either. Like why are we suddenly going into a downtime to perform some funky ritual instead of killing the boss (looking at ultimates)?

[@SageTigerStar]

@@Decus86 I've been playing since Shadowbringers. I will say that when I first joined the game, the community was genuinely a lot more chill and supportive. Not just because of the policies, but because the people I had encountered were actually cool people who loved the content and loved introducing new people to that content. In my personal experience, the last 2-3 years has seen the community becoming less patient, way more competitive, and SUPER toxic even in casual content like dungeons. Much like your claim, I've seen a bunch of people saying they're forced to be nice to people because of the policy, but like...what do people gain from being toxic assholes in the most basic content? Does it make them feel more accomplished to talk down to their party or a particular player? Why does being nice to your party/alliance have to feel forced to these people? Toxicity is easy these days, but genuinely trying to be a nice person and help others through the mechanics is getting ridiculously rare with all these people being so impatient with others. One thing I will add though, some of the toxicity may come from which data centers people play on. I started the game on Crystal and about a year or so ago I moved to Aether with a friend for raiding. Crystal seemed to have WAY more chill than Aether in the time I spent there.

[@Decus86]

@@SageTigerStar I have a guess where this change may come from. 1. The refugees from other games. WoW of course most of all, but other mmos as well like new world, lost ark, bdo. None of which are known for being welcoming or friendly. 2. The change in content and blown popularity of 3rd party tools. The jobs have become easy while 3rd party tools help people even more, so they develop superiority egos. And at the same time the content has changed, because with jobs becoming easier, the raids have become more mech heavy to keep the difficulty. Meaning they are more demanding and unforgiving. Prime breeding ground for toxicity, elitism and impatience. Can't say much about NA DCs. In EU there are only Light and Chaos, with chaos being basically void of all but casuals and french only speakers. And Light is our raiding DC where everyone is, even chaos players. But I don't see any difference between them here.

[@Yarpell]

I basically agree with everything you said. I thought discords-organized reclears would be the way to farm it less painfully, but unfortunately, even in those you can get like a clear per hour if you're lucky. Cause yes, everyone cleared, everyone should know the fight in theory, but with 24 people there is a higher chance of mistakes and something always goes wrong. I'm at 26 materia I so far and I just don't think I can make it to 99. Farming this is way too time-consuming.

[@TheGameKat]

To add to the frustration, how this has panned out in practice was completely predictable. The experience you report was laid out on Reddit well before the fight was released. Also not sure how a single boss suddenly became an alliance raid. It's a 24-person trial.

[@SincerelyUnique4u]

Just wanted to say this is the first of your content I've ever seen and I really like the way you handled this video! I agree with your sentiments about Party Finder in NA. I really think this is a result of a difference in cultures. If you look at JP, Mana has over double the clears on Aether! PUG culture here is sooo rough and is number one issue with Chaotic here. The Devs did admit that this fight was harder than intended (the item level synch is such a dumb idea I'm about to buy the hair to resell in like 8.0 LOL), so hopefully the next Chaotic Raid is more PF friendly here. I know one creator who did all of his reclears and farming on JP just to trade the rewards to his main on NA. I admit some of the sentiments from Week 1 raiders I do not take seriously since they all huddle over to their own spaces to curbstomp this content, but you gave a real perspective that many people here agree with.

[@xsteelersx6]

Body check reduction would make it easier to bring more casual friends into the content without the full burden of execution on them being responsible for the whole groups success. They really didn’t need to make the bait/ tower count as high as it is.

[@immersion9880]

I freaking hate body check mechanics. It just seems so lazy imo and putting that shit in a 24 man? No thank you.

[@MagicFanatics-l8b]

I keep resolving myself to finally grind it out in PF and then I hear other peoples negative experiences and lose my motivation. Maybe I will try for it one day.

[@kestenyi3873]

the fight is fun, NA PF is itself, pf is way more the issue than the fight, so still try it if you can. for learning try with a static that fills out with pf those have been good in my experience.

[@Nodnarb59]

Its like i said Yoshi-P and team don't know how to create good midcore content its savage or casual no in between

[@leighg9o]

BA/DR was good midcore content they just need to put it in duty finder

[@cyne122]

They know how. they just underestimate the value of it. CLL, DR, and Dalriada before the Bozja buffs are good examples. As re many of the CEs. The mechanics are a bit more complicated and faster than Normal mode, but you are able to react to them, as opposed to memorizing and perfecting them. Also, FF could do to have some "soft" enrages with his content, when instead of the boss blowing everyone up at XX Minutes, the pressure and incoming damage just slowly gets to a point where it becomes overwhelming.

[@no-trick-pony]

My experience in PF before even in EW has been nothing but horrific, with me quitting the last time I tried because of name calling (like... the bad kind) and toxicity and one guy following me to the next group, joining and going "so, , how are you planning on fucking this group over this time, hm?" After two pulls he left himself, after one more when he was gone we cleared - that was P2s. And that was the last time I ever used party finder or did content. Yeah, I met some nice people in PF. But all in all it's just a cesspool of toxicity. If I do any content nowadays I am doing it with friends or the FC. Huge respect to anyone who can deal dealing with PF for more than half a tier.

[@naotohex]

I think phase 2 is just too much, phase 1 is so so fun, and it feels so great dodging all the mechanics, while phase 2 having that swap ruins just about everything. I think if it was removed or replaced with something else it would be much easier for groups, but like you said, one person dies and the whole things ruined.

[@MalganisLefay]

Having everyone experiencing inner and outer mechanics isn't a Bad thing... The way is done is debatable of course. The real cringe is adding hard Body Checks for 24 with an Arena Like this...

[@m0ko0]

fo the "there's not much to do for healers" : yes if dps and tanks know how to do mit and do mechanic : as soon as there is a vulne up or a fked up (like a dot or something) : theres is things to do (and let s be real: 24 ppl : it will happen haha) so if they increased the healing or mitigation necessary : the difficlulty would increase and less chance to clear : it it designed to be farmable so adding to much for the healers would be not balnced enough. (I think people should know how to use their tools but we cannot expect that in 24 people raid sadly) i love a good challenge for the healing part : but there is so many fucks up possible in this fight that depending on your team you can just chill out or sweat tears and blood

[@d0k0night]

FF14 needs an entire redo of healers. Healers should be HEALING, not dpsing. The incoming damage should be consistently high where tanks need to be always receiving a steady stream of heals or they'll die. The current healing to dps ratio needs to be reversed, where you're healing almost all the time, and dpsing only a tiny fraction of the time.

[@bibimboup]

​@@d0k0night even if we change that, healer will need to dps no matter what. They will never get to heal every single second because that will make fights more harder and it depend also of how good you are at healing. I do think healer need to be change in the future because when we dps we play with just 2 actions while we do have a variety of healing actions but we rarely use all of them in fights.

[@m0ko0]

@@d0k0night tbf i disagree : i love trying to maximise my dps output while doing my healing rotation. as a matter of fact i think healers must have a sort of dps rotation : more flexible than tanks or dps for obvious reasons , but i would find it so boring to just press my healing abilities and just this.... i love mitigation and i find it extremely gratifying to mit and see ppl almost not take dmg, and in HL contents like ultimates etc, this is a great way to learn to be polyvalent, this is what i like in ff14 healers, the polyvalence : mechs , mit, healing, dps and for dch and astro : buffs

[@Cfishies]

​@@d0k0nightbruh there is other game that have that kind of fight approach, i would be dying of boredom if the only thing we do is just heal

[@thevermin23]

This rant was spot on! ❤

[@formy52]

I think you raise a really good point about just the sheer amount of positions that you might need to remember. Savage is already a test of memory when it comes to clock spots, placements, spread positions and so on, and now you might have to learn two more Alliance spots. I can definitely see how that would just be a lot.

[@cmciff4054]

Happy New Year, great video and agree with all your points on the content, especially how the mechanics of this fight are contributing to toxicity, which I think SE should really pay attention to given how special this community is. Also, thanks for saying hi in game last night on Hyperion, I’ve never met one of my fav XIV youtubers in game before so I was geeking out to my partner as we were hanging out in Solution 9! 😂

[@jf4156]

The worst part was waiting an hour for the group to fill only to have some shit for brains leave or disconnect after 4 pulls then the group falls apart

[@davidbernardino8109]

The experience is like any content in pf , sometimes you get good parties, and sometimes you dont. The fight is super fun, and i hope they continue to make new ones. Learning p1 blind on release was some of the best fun I've had in a while. I also really like how even people who dont raid have given this a try and even cleared. Have over 30 clears now and all in pf, so people will get better over time, i think.

[@Aitherea]

As someone who PFed this raid tier, this was basically pf BS on steroids. Like yes, pf is ALWAYS a mixed bag. but the 24-man nature of this definitely made the normal pf struggles even worse.

[@davidbernardino8109]

@Aitherea I imagine DRS and BA were also the same on release. The BS, I mean. I don't know if I have better luck then most in pf, but I feel this is just normal for 24 "hard" content, and I've been getting pretty consistent clears in pf.

[@asmophet]

I think it's a worse experience in PF than normal because you're doing essentially Savage content with 24 other people. 8 People was already a struggle in PF. 24 Amplifies the difficulties.

[@NotExplicable]

​@@davidbernardino8109 BA is backed by content progression and progression within BA, this 24man has almost nothing I almost with it was an add-on to the new field Operation

[@LupusArcavius]

Bro me too! Day 1 blind was so much fun. And since everyone was blind on the content we all were just helping each other out. Such a wholesome experience. I don’t have that many clears yet but I also mainly join prog and clear groups to help and get first time clear bonus.

[@ItsZorroDood]

Put the strict body check at the beginning.

[@Drac_Iguro]

Progged this fight for about two hours split between Christmas Eve and Christmas Day. Got up to towers before logging off. Unfortunately got super sick after that night so I just watched guides in bed as they came out. I haven’t had the motivation to go back since. I loved P1 but man towers and P2 seem annoying. I thought surly thy wouldn’t do any body checks in a 24 man but here we are. I’ll get my clear eventually but I doubt I’ll end up farming this.

[@Williammax1000]

1:05 ngl for half a second i thought you were going to talk about raid shadow legends or smt, great video tho :)

[@LupusArcavius]

I’ve been having a blast in PF with this fight. I love the incentives for helping new people clear. I usually like joining clear parties for stuff just to help anyway. But the lockout for savage punishes you and others for that so I’m really happy this fight not only doesn’t punish people for helping with clears but it also rewards you. I find myself joining clear and prog parties more than farms. Even if we don’t clear I just get to have fun doing the fight and helping people get experience

[@onedaynoreason2572]

I think a lot of players have lost sight of that. I always only raid for FUN

[@LupusArcavius]

@@onedaynoreason2572yeah it’s like people view content in this game as a checklist. Clear the fight *check* Farm the rewards *check* Never look back and complain there’s no content

[@Aitherea]

@@LupusArcavius I understand the sentiment as I've felt this way too, but I think for lots of us, the fight starts out fun but then we get held back for hours due to the nature of it. Being unable to reach a goal, not because of your own failings, doesn't feel good. It's great that you can find enjoyment in it no matter what, but for a lot of people, a fun fight quickly turns into the frustration of hitting the same wall over and over for hours. It's like getting stuck in a traffic jam on the freeway. You can enjoy the scenic route, but when you're stood still with the scenery never changing, it loses its charm and you just want to get to your destination.

[@black-velvet98]

Me and my friends have been trying to clear this for days. The four of us know what we're doing and usually our alliance is doing stuff perfectly, but then the other alliances are messing up and we even have people joining our brambles prog that haven't even done it yet. it's nuts x-x

[@tarendurin]

I've noticed that too. It's really frustrating. When I started a fresh party initially, some guy said "oh well there's a bramble prog let's do that" when we had 22 people. For a fresh prog. I'm just like "that poor party..." And you know, now being in Bramble prog, I feel even worse about that. I didn't join that party, but I'm realizing how disheartening for that person it mustve been now.

[@HippeusOmega]

I finally made it to about 2% enrage today. It's a fun fight, I think, but whew the PF just makes things so unbearable. The constant waiting and then getting the group together just for ppl to leave 2-3 pulls in just to either have to refill or start from scratch is so exhausting.

[@callmelazy2836]

I love this fight so much. I am lucky to be part of a community that does field operations and also other stuff, so we organised runs with people from the community, in order to make it a better experience for everyone. PF was rough for this, people make the silliest mistakes and then disband. I am a tank main and this fight just made it very obvious that tanks in pf have no idea how to tank. I'm lucky to main warrior, because the number of times I hit 15-16 stacks in PF was insane and I probably would've died on other jobs. I always keep telling them that swapping at 6 stacks aligns perfectly with everything and prevents unnecessary damage, but nobody pays attention. Not to mention the tanks in middle, who don't provoke the boss and let the side tanks eat autos from both their add and the main boss.

[@Watch_over_us]

Pf has two options, neither of which suit the average player. "Sprout, Fresh prog, never used PF before!" Or clear farm.

[@pUREsTORM9267]

From my personal experience (I did enough clears to get the Dais mount), the biggest problem in PF was not the higher chance of human error due to having more players. The big issue was the twats who would leave after 1 or 2 wipes, every time. And you'd be forced to reform the party would could take 5-10 minutes depending on how many people bailed. This was a very noticeable issue in clear/reclear parties. IMO so much time was wasted not on people making mistakes thus causing wipes, but from waiting for the party to reform after someone leaving due to said wipes. I definitely spent more time waiting for the party to fill up as opposed to actually attempting the content. I understand leaving if the party is clearly a trap. I would leave if I noticed someone was consistently making the same mistakes several times, or if someone was clearly a prog liar. But I would not leave just because of one wipe on looming chaos.

[@idno4856]

Happy New Year! Good vid!

[@KibaAzure]

I think the combination of body checks, clears required, and number of players needed for this is just unfeasible for long-term content. After the first month I expect the only way to get groups for this will be through discord groups same as BA and Delubrum Extreme.

[@ubk8751]

16:00 I thought veterans would love newbies because of the extra rewards...

[@INeosIRex]

Yeah... 2 different mindsets really. 1st Oh cool I get extra rewards and help someone out, idc if we wipe this will be fun 2nd wdym you still make mistakes?! This is about MY loot, GET OUT! Unfortunately type 2 is common rn. I guess after a while type 1 will be the norm, as soon as all the power grinder have moved on.

[@dadkwashere]

I no lifed this thanks to PTO Git my clear day 1, and by end of week i got everything this content offered plus bought 2 hairstyles and 1 dais to sell. But yeah pf experience is so bad. People leave early, bad time management, plus the reclear/clear trap parties. I could have easily alloted my no life period clearing FRU from phase 3 to clear but decided to do this because it released christmas day which was very bad timing. Now ill have to do my regular 3 day schedule with the static and clear in a month or two. Rrleasing this content so close to each other wasnt a good move imo plus the holidays

[@nitemare1004]

ilv sync i have not heard anyone else mention this. thank you!

[@Dastan117]

I really wish people would ask questions when they don't know how to do something. I don't know how they see the community to feel like they can't be seen as a weak link in content like this, but it needs to stop. Just ask and someone will probably help you if you are lost.

[@Aoi-mirror]

oh the lolly lolz. Its discord. Its discord to blame. I've been in a enough discords to see how people just forget chat is even there, once the've got two or three friends in voice. Also... PF supports DEFJ. There are probably not enough F, maybe enough D, and what about spanish and italian etc?... well... they are all joining E, but their E isn't that good. These fight is sooo badly designed, and that's because they were determined to make it savage. Brand new content... and they when full 'tight' (savage). Because they thought that was a worthy priority, savage. Don't allow a gear carry, I won't be doing it if its not 'hard'. If you allow a gear carry your going to have to make undodged mechanics hit much harder.

[@Verpal]

I got everything out of this raid by grinding it out with ultimate sweaters week 1, since then I have never go back. Until yesterday. There is nothing in this raid you need, nothing of particular value, the glamour doesn't exist, the mount does not exist, the hairstyle does not exist, DO NOT enter this gate of hell. And no, I went to 730 duty complete 10+ clear party later, its the same but more toxic.

[@kestenyi3873]

Make all the towers single player soaks and done, fun fight, no longer tower purgatory that makes you want to bang head into desk wall anything. "Keep my toxicity in my head except when RDMs heal then I'm stepping on your tile" is really funny lmao

[@HippeusOmega]

Took a few days to recharge and finally got my first clear, and it was on my steam deck using my phone as a hotspot no less.

[@aussiedragonz]

I am tempted to build up my healer ilvl so i can suffer this. i *want* that hairstyle and i am not rich enough to buy it from the marketboard. But i'm fearful about doing it, because i am the typeof person who needs to experience mechs, i will not remember if you just tell me and people *hate* those kinds of people.

[@Aitherea]

youll be fine as long as you dont join prog parties that are past your prog point. Mistakes are EXPECTED during prog. It only becomes an issue when you join a swaps party but then you actually arent comfy with mechs prior to swaps, so you mess up a lot. So, just dont prog lie and i dont think its an issue at all.

[@HeroSosh]

def seems liek good/interesting and challenging content (which is good) however, im glad u touched on this for a few mins in ur video, and thats' which plagues our community for awhile now - and its the toxicity/elitism/trolls of PF.. like u said, 24 man, means 24 chances for screw ups.. hell, its hard enough going into an Ex-Trial or savage, with only 8 ppl, and after a couple wipes, ppl leave and u're back into PF, waiting to fill, and again, like u said, u go back in, and its someone else making a mistake now, then another person leaves.. these ppl no longer have the patience required to do challenging content.. like hello, are these ppl not watching world races or ULT prog?! these ultimate raiders literally sit there and wipe to the same mechanics for hours, hours!!!! ppl were doing 16 hour days raiding, and get stuck on the same mechanic for sometimes days at a time,.. ppl think "oh its been cleared already, clearly its not that hard" and expect to go in there with a bunch of ultimate-caliber raiders... meanwhile, who u're actually getting, is the filthy casuals, who struggle in ex-trials, who only want the mount or cause its new content etc.. sure there are some savage raiders, ult raiders etc.. but being matched up with 24 randos, all trying to follow a very complex, meticulous and strict raidplan; All for it to go out the window as soon as someone dies, cause now the entire raidplan is thrownoff... all in all, its good content, and its an amazing game.. I love 14.,. however the biggest problem with 14, is its community.. and now im of the mind of, "do I want to go into this content, and sacrifice hours upon hours, subjecting myself to this troll environment that is PF"... and i struggle to find the commitment to do it thesedays..

[@XxMazziexX]

Went in for an hour or two on Christmas eve, encountered toxicity almost instantly (co heal who didn't seem to understand party lists can sort differently when bitching we overlapped esunas then came out with "like in TEA" cause yes of course, we've all done TEA!). Bashed my head against it for another couple of hours Monday... just don't see myself clearing or enjoying enough to keep trying. And I do regularly farm extremes and do savage. Honestly will probably just buy the hair - think they've missed the mark in a lot of ways on this

[@carlotolentino4019]

I’m just happy there’s part of a fight where my cleanse is useful as BRD lmao

[@fiammaspell]

If the usual suspect prog liars were like normal gremlins before this content, it seemed like someone fed them after midnight during this prog.

[@Aoi-mirror]

Yeah but I suspect your are waiting for people to be P1 perfect, before entering a P2 begin party. So now people have got to spend 2 days with people who don't yet have experience of oragnising into light parties, getting no useful P1 practice either. No people need to ACCEPT that your not entitled to expect P1 to be perfect, until its a P3 party. ITs going to take time, stick with the party and we will all get better togehter. If you don't want to deal with humans and their mistakes, go play a solo game. There is always duty support.

[@Zkid531]

I love how everyone has the same experience with PF lol. It's interesting, I joined a few clear parties when I *thought I was ready to clear, only to find out more small details I didnt know yet. You could probably attribute it to the raidplan being updated throughout the 2nd and 3rd day, but, I didn't know the 3 pairs on the platforms were baited to the 3 closest players... which means someone was just "Adjusting For Me every time to make sure it went off correctly lmao. I also didnt know there was a movement prio in center although we were kinda unofficially doing H > T > D for a bit until the raidplan specifically listed T > H > D. So even in the poor clear parties I joined I was learning some small things to make the fight more consistent. Idk overall, really good content. I'm happy they finally added some medium scale content we can do as a community. We desperately need some midcore content to close the gap between casual/midcore players and hardcore players. It's been quite a while since Bozja released, and I feel that the communities have splintered quite badly since then. Hopefully this kind of content can bridge that gap a bit, at least until our *New Bozja comes :]

[@justcallmekame]

This fight could have been fixed with just a few small tweaks. PVP tiles last longer than a single moment. Maybe 2 full seconds to allow movement. Location of death is location of rez.

[@bluezhift]

I really enjoyed your analysis in this video! I don't know if I will ever even attempt this fight, but I do appreciate getting a look at what I'll be up against if I do. I do hope that you will be able to get the hair you want!

[@catfood4142]

Basically a nutshell in every ultimate raids, waiting for hour in pf to fill and toxicity and ppl left so quick, basically every ultimate be like

[@filtermin5308]

It took me about 9 hours to clear on pf as well, including the time we had to wait for groups to fill up, people leaving etc. Now I’m dreading farming it but I need those rewards 😭

[@ahrixxoxo1698]

tbh watching this has put me off even trying the fight, i just don't have the time to slam my head into it for that long with little chance of a clear, i guess the mount and hairstyle are forever out of my reach

[@Aitherea]

I want to encourage you to go for it but i also dont want to lie to you. This is a huge time commitment. It simply is what it is. I would say ive had SOME better experiences in farm parties, but it's still the sort of thing where you might spend an hour and get just one clear. It is unfortunately not so easy to farm,.

[@steveh1474]

BIG AGREE on the level sync problem. why in the crap can we outgear savage but not this?? its meant to be easier than savage, let us outgear it! give us echo in a few patches! if its meant to be easier, let it be easier! square really aint thinkin

[@leighg9o]

Disagree here. Out gearing content is why it dies because its no longer fun.

[@MatsuzoSF]

How do we know they're not going to do this? This is new content. Obviously we can't outgear it yet. I don't see why there wouldn't be echo at some point or why we wouldn't eventually be able to unsync it.

[@gilaverde]

Good vid. I've not cleared yet. Recently I've been getting groups that can't even clear the position setup. I had one group, after 45min of waiting in PF, that could not agree on positions for P2. I"m still unsure on P2 positions but I know the general setup. This group, alliance C wanted to be io Alliance A and was forcing A to be on C. It was a mess, the chat log was so bad, that entire Alliance A just disbands. We never got to pull. The group fell apart, I never attempted that night again. What can be done? IDK but I may not ever get a clear at this rate.

[@alenacheka]

I feel basically the same. I was lucky enough to get couple of clears and got the hairstyle.

[@KogasaYosikage]

Doing p8s in pf has prepared me for disappointment, so Atleast I never get tilted at wiping to towers 5 times

[@xapapetsugaming2311]

I degened the fight for 3 days when it released, and got my clear, I now have 5 clears.

[@kiretan8599]

Oh boy, bout to jump in this week

[@delimelone]

I havent had the chance to try this yet and Im really unsure if I should do it now, given that alot of people have already cleared this and calling it a horrible experience.. but I really want that glam 😭

[@INeosIRex]

I proged this fight for about a week since release, 2-3 hours a day until I cleared. If you go in with the expectation to clear this fight in a day or 2 and you are not used to hardcore raiding in pf, don't do it. But if you don't take it this serious and prog it at your own pace it is not that bad. I recommend you give it a try and decide for yourself :)

[@SrBlacken]

farmed it to 99 demimateria for the mount and then few more for glam, but yes other players where the worst experience not the fight itself.

[@cyne122]

I'm tired, boss.

[@seanmacisaac334]

I said it about this savage tier as well, they need to gate other high end content behind the current Ex. Maybe there would still be be plenty of people who got hard carried, or lucked out on 1 pull, but there wouldn’t be a sch casting adlo on the tank 5 times in a row, while the tank is still healthy instead of healing the rest of the party or raising their co-healer.

[@just_radical]

I think if you connect the tiles to the outside with some sort of permanent 2 way passable platform a lot of the issues in the fight would be resolved. It also is probably why normal Alliance Raid content after ARR stays very Alliance neutral in terms of how mechs are resolved (nothing like the specific platforms during Ancient Flare in Labyrinths or the Cerberus mechs anymore) b/c it's way too much responsibility for the weakest links of one alliance to be able to sink an entire run. For future ones they should def consider making mechanics so they can be satisfied by 5-6 people of each Alliance and design different zones of a map with a way to feed more consistent players into each zone to assist or replace struggling/dead players to keep runs going. But I think it's a really fun fight, it just doesn't come together with 24 people of wildly varying skill levels essentially being at the mercy of the lowest common denominator of the group.

[@highlycaffeinated998]

At 3:50, as a healer main, you just earn my Subscribe.

[@NeFlux]

I'm playing on the JP server side and the experience is the same. Much worse if you were doing it on the first like 5 days. Plus the toxicity got amplified by thoe whole jp mixed with non-jp players because everyone fled to Mana DC to do this. To give you an idea, it was 6-8am and servers were rather congested. A lot of silent CN players surfaced in this content and they don't even look at guides before joining a party. 3 wipe disband was such a dumb rule to put, and if that's not ridiculous enough, having the rule where you leave if you get a loot is also ridiculous. Imagine sitting in the fight for over an hour and having to subject to rolling for 1 loot only. Wish they made the loot drop individually like how it was in Delubrum Reginae. The fight being recoverable with a tank/healer LB after towers post Looming Chaos was a mistake. It brought so many people who didn't know how to do the fight properly into reclears. And yes, similar to your experience, never have I been hounded on so hard before for not raising someone. One party I joined was so annoying, the leader constantly spammed Raise with a sound effect in alliance chat when someone dies. Over time I found it funny how people in the outside groups were failing towers so hard when it's simple pre-assigned spots.

[@razblue2204]

I’ve been stuck in post swaps prog almost all day and yesterday. It’s messed up how the fight feels good to do, like it’s got very nice moving parts but good lord every time I see 2 players hp bars at 0 on any alliance close to towers or swap the frustration keeps piling up.

[@coalsome]

Three pulls is just the PF standard sadly, regardless of the difficulty of the fight or anything in the description. NA PF will always stick to the 3 pulls rule unless they implement some kind of punishment for leaving groups, which I highly doubt they will do.

[@tarendurin]

Im just so tired trying to prog this only to be stuck on towers because, while my alliance did everything right, someone on the other alliances tripped somewhere and now we're all exploding-

[@IKIGAIofficial]

I praise them for finally releasing new type of battle content since Stormblood.

[@MrProg-ey3tl]

What about Criterion?

[@IKIGAIofficial]

@ id say the main new thing criterion brought was actually interesting and challenging mob packs with gimmicks. The trash mobs in the rokkon one were kino

[@Chevalier541]

I never comment but I wanted to throw my own input. I agree with nearly everything you said. As a hard content healer main, this fight is great. People leaving after 1 pull? Don’t understand it. I just blacklist and move on. The biggest issue I have with this is the amount of rage quits AND you’re completely right about the toxicity and worst people being in PF. I just snatch people and throw them in my own personal chaotic alliance reclears because PF is absolute hell. I have had about 20+ enrages 0-4% with at least 16 clears under my belt within the first 4 days of release. P.S. be AWARE of the SCAMS!!!! There are people legit scamming others out of rewards in PF by setting them to only duty incomplete! I got sent to GM jail for warning people by having a PF up. There are people letting in 3-4 people in premade alliance groups, bribing them Gil for the rewards and just not paying out. It’s RAMPANT in the duty Incomplete. Additionally if you clear with people who haven’t cleared before you get additional rewards. It’s kinda creates a scummy reward system. They really need to overhaul the next one.

[@TheRismint]

40 clears and two mounts later and I dont think I have any sanity left to farm for the hairstyle. The fight is amazingly fun but pf has just sucked the life out of me. I think you put it well, that the problem is the near-unrecoverability of tower fuckups. I've done both CODCARHealerOut and Aurelia's raidplan and in both cases I was working overtime as a RDM. The rewards are great, mechanics are fun, but the 1 in 4 chance of everything blowing up and people insta-leaving is not fun.

[@Aitherea]

this fight really driving home how incredible it is to have a smn or esp rdm on the team LOL. when partners go wrong and the healer dies the rdm/smn the only reason we're even able to keep goin.

[@vespi57]

I'm still progging the fight. Phase 1, no problems. Phase 2? Haven't gotten far, but never because of something I did. But overall I like the fight so far. The biggest problem of this fight in the end is not the fight itself, but getting those 24 players. You can easily sit in a PF for a long time. People do come, but then, when you only have 1-3 spots left, people will start to leave. And when you finally do get the group, it often takes just couple of wipes for people to leave, and its back to square one. There's not much that can be done about this, but I do feel that in the high-end duties, before anyone can leave the duty, a certain amount of time must pass first, something like 20-30 minutes. My threshold for leaving is very high. As long as I have time, I'm more than willing to stay the full lockout, no matter how many times I wipe. But it also has to do with the fact that I don't want to be the first guy to leave when things don't work out. Everybody makes mistakes. Considering that this is the very first of this kind of content, I believe this was also a learning curve for SE. The towers should either require less people (something like 16 at most) or drop them in waves, not all at once. If it were like this, it would be more recoverable and it would still retain the level of difficulty.

[@CereaII]

This can either be the best experience you ever had, or it could be your worst nightmare. I love the fight; it's fun, and I say give it a try to anybody that wants to get their hands dirty for the first time or so. This raid pulled in a lot of people. You have a mixed bag of goodies. Your above-average, average, and the worst people you didn't know existed. Now, overtime people will get better (hopefully), or people will continue to do what they're doing now with Whatever alliance messes up the most gets kicked. I'm fine with either option, but man My experience was like walking through hell with gasoline drawers on. I cannot express the amount of trolling/lying players do. Every clear party felt like a trap party; now granted, it could be a clear party, but it all boils down to that one person to ruin it all. I really don't know what's worse, waiting about 15-30 mins for full groups to form and then 1-3 pull bounce outs or tower prog at the start and the towers after swap. Towers you can easily live if one group missed one set of 3 IF everyone is prepared and noticed 1-3 people are dead in either alliance. but if not that one group missed it thats 150k hp for everyone and its gg's for the run. Going from B mid to outside. You can easily wing it if you just did towers correctly, however. What I notice that will kill a run. Is when a healer that's on the west rez someone that's all the way on that's like North/east and vise versa. As long as you don't input a button, they can walk maybe 5 tiles, but that's not enough to put them back to where they were, and when it comes to swap, that person being on the east is just shrewd with the swap priority. Now you'll probably have one additional tank/healer/DPS somewhere they don't belong, and it just goes to shit. (I could be wrong about that but that's just what I seen/experienced) I say this raid is to test who has common sense, patience, and "awareness". You can argue that's every raid. Like, I can't stress this enough: people will black out so hard and forget you were next to them on tiles xDD. When people say they're clear-headed, trust me, they're not. People going into clear parties that don't know how to cycle between alliances to heal the people standing right next to them. The people that don't know standing still on the tile will break, and let's not forget the people that can't tell if they're standing in the wrong spot with light party spreads in part 1. As fun as this was, I'm still going to try to go for both mounts, but man oh man. Pain is the keyword for raid. When, I got my clear. It felt like too good to be real, finally joined a party that requires a duty complete just to fail to towers again LMFAO. I would believe it if someone said it took them a month to clear with how wild PF is right now. It is terrible. I can't express this enough. All jokes aside. Like I said before, it really is a mixed bag of fun you don't know what you're going to get and I still give this raid 9/10 go in with a friend or two or a full group and have a great time. I'm going to stop yapping, though, and grind some more. Good luck on clears and happy New Year's!

[@kcopper2118]

My experience was pure pain, u get one of 2 things, sometimes both, either you get people that pull twice then break your alliance and leave, or you get fake proggers that are still stuck in p1 when you're in a clear party, it became so toxic and mentaly draining honestly, it is a shame because this fight mechanically is very fun

[@TheForhekset]

Ive cleared m4s, Sphene ex3, and did those in pf but you only need 8. 24 is a lot.

[@jeremy.geronimo]

If you’re going after this, give it 3+ hours of learning curve. Get synergy with your group, then after you clear. RINSE & REPEAT.

[@4NSW3RM3]

I am embarrassed to say this is the fight that I learned what flare markers are. I only got to phase 2 twice, within the first 2 hours of release, before having to go to work. The general consensus makes me think I'd much prefer trying to rally my linkshell into doing this than PF.

[@Maeseam1611]

I have done savage and ultis pf since anabaseios and i noticed most ppl are realizing now how the community of this game is not diferent from any other game when is about toxicity :/ Also this fight bring me p10S PTSD uggh...the fight is fun tho but man...is 24man raid you cant give them individual responsabilities like in a 8 man raid yoshipls

[@Watch_over_us]

"The ff14 community is so much better than all others!" - people who stand in limsa and don't do actual content 😂

[@Wishmaster787]

​@@Watch_over_usTbh sometimes I think MW2 and Gta 4 lobbies from 2009 were less toxic than this community

[@Decus86]

​@@Watch_over_usthose people don't play anything else either, cuz damn those rp'ers are drama magnets and don't even realise it

[@Konfusious86]

some ppl like the content, but noone seems to enjoy the overall experience. I personally did not feel good even after completing a gear set and getting the hair/mount. The experience itself robs you of any enjoyment of even the rewards themselves. Awful is an accurate description, especially playing as healer, it's actually horrible.

[@therelax4166]

i think they should nerf p2 damage especially from towers and remove vuln stacks or replace it with damge down stack, yes the fight is super easy but ppl cant do towers or 3rd art if darkness without deaths, and i would rather farm than tower prog

[@xkey_blade9558]

I guess I was lucky I cleared it in about 5 hours on the second day. I got in a group in pf with a great leader we stick all together till we cleared sometimes only 2 people needed to be replaced. We were all friendly and always watsch over the other that someone who doesn’t understand we could say him what he need to change 😊. It was very fun this fight and refreshing I loved this wish we get more midcore content like this 😊.

[@vincentbeton]

Sounds like 'Chaotic' is not supposed to be a fancy new word for hard but describes the Team Dynamic or lack thereof

[@Nina-qd8zu]

Dang, didn't realize other ppl misplacing their hands is a me issue, oof i better get good and know everyones hand debuff so I can dodge properly :)

[@Aitherea]

You took what I said WAY out of context and made it something that offended you when it never was meant to be offensive in the first place. Obviously if someone claps you with their hand it's not a skill issue on your part. Please don't live in such a way where you have to take insult from something where there is no insult to be had in the first place.

[@Nina-qd8zu]

@Aitherea Guess the smiley face wasn't good enough to imply it was a joke comment. Sorry I offended you.

[@Aitherea]

@ tone is hard to get across on the internet. I wasnt necessarily offended, more like flabbergasted LOL.

[@Nina-qd8zu]

@Aitherea I understand, reading it back I can see how that came across nasty, I should've worded it better >.

[@spacegamer13]

I farmed this out for all the rewards and yeah. I think this definitely could've done without the towers after the swap. Put something else there and it would've been a way more PF friendly fight. I think this encounter would've been the perfect difficulty in that case.

[@Viech54]

Doom: Kinda, but there's more to it. It's not always a skill issue by the player that got doomed. You can get clipped with doom from others and it happens way too many times that someone points their doom in the center or just at another player. Still a skill issue (or just being mean to others on purpose), but not by the player that got doom. It is never the healer's fault, tho, unless the healers clipped you with their doom. At which point it is their responsibility and they should go out of their way to cleanse it. What helped me for this is using sprint. Part of me wants to play Bard, so I can Warden's Paean myself if clipped by someone else's doom. That's actually not true, you can get from the inside to the outside without dying and without killing others. For some reason, gap closers on the outside add or possibly a WHM's teleport work. I like the fight and the mechanics, but it is a terrible experience in most party finders. Doesn't matter if clear/kill party or farm party, good luck getting enough players to respect the mechanics and not wipe everyone. I have 16 clears by now, only a handful were consistent clears and I pretty much lived in the raid the last week. Most clears were a struggle and not in a good way. Quite a few players were prog lying, got carried (tank LB towers), or did not understand/read the raid plan. Felt that way at least. Can't prove it, of course, but surely it would be more consistent otherwise. I can say with confidence that wipes were not my fault by the time I got good at the fight. Sure, I may have gotten doomed or died every now and then. But there are so many way for others to kill someone. Clip doom, tiles PvP, mess up Looming Chaos, tower memes, don't get out of the way for chasing AoEs, so player can't run away, outside doesn't resolve their tether, incorrect spread/stack baits, pointing cones at inside groups, healers not healing at all despite being alive, ... All of that can kill another player at no fault of their own and I've see it all. Quite a few players in my group no longer want to do this fight until it is heavily nerfed or an expansion or two later, when all DPS checks no longer exist, we can take way more hits before dying, and we just delete the boss. I don't think it needs a huge nerf. People just need to learn to do mechanics and the correct way of solving those is known by now. It's also no longer day 1 or week 1, so we had time to figure things out and get used to it. There should be way less failed mechanics with the tools available unless it is a prog party. I do think that the body checks should be more lenient. Maybe make it require 20 players out of 24. So a few players could be dead and it wouldn't end the run. And gear should not be synced to 735. That is not much higher than what we have right now.

[@lisahayakawa1191]

I have been doing this for two week to join pf and it was fun to learn but having player that are impatient and leave yeah that's frustrating. Then there is this prog liar when some player just mess up first phase from pvp hand and some player mess up tower despite pf description say loom or phase 3 prog. Luckily cleared it and it was worth achieved.

[@oEXTRA]

Good video. The only thing I disagree with is making this unsync-able in the future. This game actually needs more endgame content to always be synced, or at least give players a legit reason to do it synced. Reason being, allowing endgame content to be unsynced later on just kills the content and any reward that came with it (by making it just another cosmetic). So the only content worth doing "legit" is the new content. This is ok for vets that have done everything already, but terrible for newbies and the overall game. It's also a big reason why the raiding community is such a mixed bag, especially in PF. The discord communities for BA and DRS have opened my eyes to this a year or so ago (same can even be said for ultimates). Though that content is seemingly dead in PF, it's actually thriving to this day on discord and in general. Tons of people still go to Eureka and Bozja. If you could unsync both of those content in entirety, I doubt that'd be the case (well maybe Bozja due to leveling). You can also still find parties for old ultimates because they can't be ran unsynced. So yeah TL;DR if they do make it unsync-able in the future, they need to add some reward(s) that can only be obtained through sync clears, or make it so drops/coins are only obtained through sync clears. In order to keep this content alive.

[@eternal_waffle9371]

same experience really, i love the first phase but ive yet to make it past towers a single time regardless of the amount of time put in

[@jonamar3965]

16:43 So, the attitude of leaving after a good first attempt is something that is more pervasive than pf. People playing this game are frustrated at more things than the 23 other people in the alliance... It sucks.

[@delektrix6083]

I do any kind of raiding in this game and i hate this content it has much good ideas but is made for eternal suffering hope they change this

[@REELmultigaming]

I don't know. During progging FRU I was interested in the chaotic raid, but as it released I just watched 1 clear vid and felt like I have seen everything. Since I am not a fan of the Cloud of Darkness boss in it's original iteration and since I don't use party finder since the end of storm blood, I don't see me doing it. The rewards seem to be shitty and wasting my time for a pf to fill up and disbanding rather quickly is just not the way I want to spent my time. I guess I will just keep on doing ultimates and week 1 savage with my static and that's it. On the other hand it is quite dissapointing not having a "real" 24 man raid. I expected it ot be a harder variant but in the formula of the 24 man raids we know. Maybe not having 5 bosses or so, but at least 3. big F

[@steveh1474]

the all healers out strat doesnt work too well for a few reasons. if a tile drops out and two people spawn on the plats, they might be on the opposite plat from where they need to be. the outside ring might be covered in deathgoop, the boss might be doing a donut or a cross, the atomos might have just spawned so they need to be killed before you can get back inside, even once you get the portal buff to jump back in, it takes 5 seconds to send you in. the best possible case scenario of dying inside, getting rezzed out, and trying to get back in still takes 15-20 seconds just to get back in there. youve seen the fight, its ruthlessly fast. its really not that recoverable, especially not in PF. dont try to do healers out, just stick with aurellia, imo.

[@Aitherea]

i guess it sounds better than it is. too good to be true

[@Cindertear]

I think it would have been a lot better if you could just jump across the platforms and the tiles. I think that debuff that prevents you from jumping is just a cheap way to make the fights “harder”. It was the same with p12s in phase 1. Pf is miserable for this. And I don’t think either the mounts or anything is worth the effort you put in it. Maybe when this can be done unsync, and if they allow it for it to be unsync. And yes, as it is right now there’s barely any difference in doing this vs progging a 2nd or 3rd floor of savage.

[@applepie3639]

"why did it take me 9 hours to clear when i was perfect at the fight" I mean.. I don't know what to say, I'm not sure if you do ulti content, but that's just raiding in ff

[@a_simple_strudel]

will say, as someone stuck on swap prog i'm still enjoying the shit out of the fight. My main issue is the people in party finder leaving after a single pull, prog liars, or pf descriptions saying tower/bramble prog, but get a level of toxic i've only seen in league ranked matches if we wipe at any point. Genuinely love the angle square took with this fight, but i see why people are frustrated/burnt out.

[@Aitherea]

The toxicity is honestly new for me in xiv. Like i see it here and there in savage but its honestly kinda rare. This I see it so much more frequently.

[@a_simple_strudel]

@@Aitherea it's new for me too in XIV, but sadly present.

[@Aitherea]

@@a_simple_strudel basically, i think this brings out the worst in people LOLOL QQ

[@a_simple_strudel]

@ I can see it

[@davidbernardino8109]

People leaving is probably the worst part of chaotic, with 24 people, everyone needs to understand you need more patience not less, especially if you're progging still. Farm parties are guilty of this, too, unfortunately.

[@kraidy117]

To play devils advocate on hands and dooms. I've seen many situations where people baited hands wrong that ended up hitting other people, and then they don't get cleansed and people died despite doing nothing wrong. It gets worse if a hand is put right in the middle and half the alliance now has dooms. So situations like that just feel really bad, which is why healers should always be prepared to esuna, for that possibility.

[@ReveredDead]

This raid has only made shit worse imo. If player moral and motivation was low before. It sure as hell is lower now.

[@xapapetsugaming2311]

I don't know if I fully agree with that, but I can see the stress for people who haven't cleared. I run CODCAR on primal, and since it's got such a low pool of players, I ended up making a lot of friends and can consistently get at least 1 clear every day. I've personally had a lot of fun, but i won't say I didn't get extremely toxic before my first clear.

[@althyk]

I got the mount on a roll. Im free! Actually no, still need the stuff we can buy from the MB, but no need to rush until the content is dead.

[@ravennesvr8103]

I compleetly agree with this video, have been progging for 15 hours.. and got absolutely no where, prog lying, wiping, toxicity, i have yet to see past looming... I gave up, i can do ultimate i can do savage but this fight... just shows the cancer inside the community, and makes me frustrated.