CMON Strikes a Deal with Mythic Games - Board Game News!

In the world of crowdfunding, nothing is a sure thing. Mythic Games found themselves in over their heads, but CMON has stepped in to publish their final two games. How does this impact your feelings about crowdfunded games?
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[@meeple]

UPDATE - Like many of you, another backer had some thoughts, and decided to share them on his own channel right here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/goGpdoutfMqZgcUsi=BjfBWM1IyvrrM1PT

[@kbzombie84]

I appreciate CMON stepping in and offering us something. They didn't have to. So far in 2024 I have not backed anything but the Dante games are coming🤩

[@daviblight]

Darkest dungeon is one of my favorite video games so i ended up backing ALL of it.... It was my first late-pledge i've ever backed and oh boy what a doozy. I got the base game and 1 expansion, but they did ask me to pay even more for shipping. They've already taken ANOTHER ask for more shipping to get the other expansions on top of those two payments i've already done and it's been pretty radio silence on any information about their production. Before all of this hogwash went down... I backed Anastyr... luckily only the base game and an expansion. When the Darkest dungeon hogwash was happening i gave up completely on Anastyr delivering, and just moved on. The cmon acquire is AMAZING to me. The fact that they are giving out the base game(with s/h) is unreal to me. I dont fully get why they are doing it but I absolutely praise them for it. I've backed multiple cmon games, I have closets full of their stuff already so they already have my allegiance, but this puts that admiration through the roof. The main thing that got me into Anastyr was the art, the world, and the minis, so i'm hoping Cmon keeps a majority of that going forward. If they do and they solidify the game in the way many/most Cmon games do I will probably even be willing to through some money at cmon for any expansions they do for the kickstarter as a sign of major respect and support for them taking on this project. As for my thoughts on Mythic... They are disgusting and disrespectful to everyone that has trusted and supported their efforts. I would rather a company every few months apologize for delays and give transparency than be crowds, wasteful, bullies and thieves. As for backing future big projects.... I absolutely will, but It will have to really inspire me with its vision, and i will click that button knowing this exact risk sadly can happen. Studios with bigger track records mitigate that fear, but its still always there.

[@meeple]

Thanks for all the thoughts on the subject! Sounds like a very reasonable attitude. And yeah, CMON has had a lot of success experience running solid campaigns, so I expect that they’ll try their best to get these projects to the finish line.

[@raortiz73]

I wish SFG had picked up Anastyr. They pick up Street Masters from Blacklist games and are giving all the backers that did not get their games from the last Indie GoGo campaign, their games. If those backers order the new expansion from their new crowdfunding, they don't pay additional shipping for the back games. Sounds like a better deal than what CMON is giving us Anastyr backers.

[@jeremiahhammer2282]

Between Hel and Anastyr I’m out $700. I got to the point where I was never expecting to see anything delivered, so while I’m upset that I’m getting only the base games (different games at that), I’m thankful that CMON stepped in and I’ll be at least getting something. I’m also leaning into less complicated games these days, so there’s a chance I may like CMON’s treatment of the material better in the end.

[@meeple]

Sorry to hear you have first-hand experience with all this. And also nice to hear that you still seem to have a pretty positive outlook.

[@Filthyanimal9]

In like an idiot for $1200+ on two all-ins (Wild Assent and Stormsunder), neither of which appear to ever see the light of day, so definitely have become more wary of crowdfunding in general, limiting myself to some smaller games and only big campaigns from major publishers CMON or Awaken Realms

[@morgaknightgames]

I'm all in on Stormsunder and while I'm still pretty confident that we'll get the first wave. I am extremely nervous about the second. Definitely gun shy after Darkest Dungeon.

[@sidneyleejohnson]

Perhaps I'm a fool but I think its just a matter of good things come to those who wait. By the way I waited a VERY long time to get AEG's Collector's editions of War of the Rings and expansions. They didn't use crowdfunding but they took a really long time. Also since they weren't on crowdfunding the communication expectations weren't really built into supporting them. We did get updates from time to time and some apologies (thanks Roberto) but they were delivered and even corrections were sent out (VERY MINOR). It was a bit harrowing as I nearly missed this years offering to complete my set. Its been a remarkably under-marketed experience but I love the results. Some would say that you can hand paint minis to a higher standard than what was produced. Sure if that is your jam... oh forgot to mention. I'm all in on WA and Stormsunder too.

[@sigepohio]

Same boat on Stormsunder and Wild Assent. Those games are on the perpetual development track. Will never back a game from that company again, regardless of whether they deliver or not.

[@benlauson555]

Wow! Money money money !

[@sidneyleejohnson]

Can you start talking about the "What's Your Game" Situation aka Madeira Collector's Edition. Campaign went radio silent 8 months ago...

[@thehandoflenin]

People will always be tempted with kickstarter games with loads of stuff. Always need that extra promo card! US is where the majority are backed, Europe and UK due to VAT, shipping make Kickstarter's less attractive. I've basically stopped Kickstarting games, still have many to play and there is an over statuation of new games basically that don't offer much different from games already released. Finding more fun going back to classic games than new kickstarters where there is always a question if they are that great.

[@michelv1816]

3 years into backing "Night Market" from Talon Strikes studios and the last update is "we're over budget...". This was after they wanted to charge non-US an astronomical amount to ship their game. They ultimately revised that amount but it certainly doesn't build trust. They haven't asked existing backers for more money (yet) but it's not a good look and that's compounded by the fact they they haven't finalized proofing their game with the manufacturer. I don't think they are bad people, they just made a lot of incorrect assumptions on managing a KS and now quite possibly wasted money. Conversely, I LOVED my experience with first time publisher Paverson Games with "Distilled". They delivered what they promised for the price that was quoted in a timely manner. I try to be discerning with the projects I back now as I want to avoid Mythic style disasters. The bitterness they created through their mismanagement and disregard of backers is staggering.

[@sidneyleejohnson]

I'm also a Night Market backer. You know, I wouldn't be terribly opposed for companies to request additional round of funding from backers to just complete the project as originally intended instead of trying to cut corners. I know Mythic's issue was that the "ask" funding rounds were dramatic. I'm not so sure Night Market would require such a big ask for this to just be wrapped up...

[@thecuriousboardgamer]

I personally know Distilled's creator so I backed with confidence. I usually avoid first time creators, but I already knew he did all his due diligence.

[@justindaron9094]

Stay above the Frey and repot the path forward! Good job MvM!!!!!!

[@petergross7235]

Good discussion. Despite the issues that come up like Mythic, crowdfunding is still quite risky. Shipping is expensive and very unreliable with world issues ranging from climate change and war that increase money and time costs. Ive had multiple projects ask for more money as delays piled up. Now its only a surprise when the developer doesn't announce a delay or ask for more money. I have backed leas and less over the past three years. I'm shooting for 1 back this year and maybe next year I will be done. Its just not worth the money and the years of waiting.

[@Nameless_Adventurer]

I had not been a part of the crowd funding side of the hobby since the early days, and then during the pandemic, I got back into it because of the Darkest Dungeon campaign by Mythic. It pulled me back in. And at least two games from Mythic are in my top 10 of all time: Solomon Kane and Darkest Dungeon. That said, I was very fortunate to have downgraded my Darkest Dungeon pledge to base game only before all the Mythic problems came to light. Even though I love their games, I started to be wary of all the campaigns they were running without delivering anything. So, I am fortunate that I am only out Hel at this point. I know others are out much more. I am also very fortunate to be in a financial situation where it does not affect me, so I can still be excited about finally getting some version of Hel from CMON in the future. For me, the CMON sell was an absolute win, because I am certain otherwise I would never see the game at all. I know others do not feel that way and are rightfully upset. When the Darkest Dungeon fiasco started, I was mostly sad for all the Mythic employees who were out of the job who had no control over what happened, and sad that an era of crowd funding had come to an end.

[@rhyspinot]

I’m sticking to the ones that *seem* stable- CMON, ONeb, Awaken Realms. One that wasn’t mentioned is Garphill

[@petergross7235]

O-Neb took a very very long time to get the last Vindication out. But their customer service is some of the best in the business. CMON has always delivered and their games have not disappointed me yet.

[@jgsugden]

For a variety of reasons, including the Mythic situation, my spending on crowdfunded board games is down by 90% in the last year, and I do not anticipate it going back up. Beyond 1.) a lack of faith in all companies because of seemingly reputable companies taking money and walking, 2.) my collection being ripe with games that I have not been able to table, and 3.) many companies taking their customers for granted (with deceit, with weaponizing FOMO, with hidden fees in 'shipping', etc...) ... it just doesn't make sense. I'm not backing a game unless I think it is good enough to be worth the cost, and good enough to get tabled over all the games I currently have (and that my friends have and want to get on the table). If my feelings become more pervasive - even companies like CMON will struggle.

[@slysof6436]

I have stopped backing crowdfunding projets since the covid pandemic. In part because of the problems with Mythic ( I backed Anastyr) and also because the projects take too long to deliver and then they ask for more money to deliver! I’m sticking to retail from now on.

[@sidneyleejohnson]

I have to admit I was super close to backing many of Mythic's campaigns. I spent many hours watching reviews of Time of Legends, Solomon Kane, 6th Siege, and Mythic Battles. While I can't quite recall why I didn't back them I think it may have been I was focusing on buying games for 4 players and many of these games seemed to be 1-2 players in focus. They all looked fantastic but my game group is really 3-4 (or higher). I might have even considered late pledging SK or 6th Siege but alas the meltdown had started before such an opportunity presented itself. When Sam Healey was on Dice tower I was drawn into the JofArc reviews. I'm glad to see he is getting support partially from the latest KS Dice Tower campaign funding.

[@getdraino]

As a all-in backer for both Fairytale Games (Alexander Lim) projects (only received the base game and the original minis), Village Attacks: Grim Dynasty (Grimlord Games) all-in with all original content (looks like the person who purchased it will not be giving any physical rewards at this point), and an All-In on Mythic Games licensed Monsterpocalypse KS (which in light of what has happened so far, I do not expect to get anything for), ... kickstarter has stopped being my go to for fun projects, as they do not hold people or corporations accountable for what amounts to varying levels of theft from their backers. The sheer amount of money that has gone into these projects and then still have nothing to show for it... mind-blowing.

[@asl2025]

Backed their first game, Mythic Battles. People seem to remember that going well. It was a mess. They made it with monolith and both companies blamed the other for the problems. Never touched any of their projects again. The corporate speak and dodging of questions around serious concerns was transparent from back then. What was more concerning though was the amount to which backers will white knight for these companies, piling on any question or comment that they see as negative, sometimes egged on by the community managers. It was a whole toxic mess of hype, overcharging and internet weirdos in para-relationships with the companies. No thanks.

[@jacobstein5678]

I've never been a mini fan. So, im not really in this boat. But i have had four projects over the years not deliver. I back far less now as i find very little incentive to backing and quite often I end up finding by the time they arrive my tastes have changed...

[@matissmatiss3126]

Where did the millions go, if no games were produced and shipped ? 😮

[@defiantj975]

The best thing mythic games ever created was super fantasy brawl and now CMON owns that too lol. Its good to see CMON make sure that these games do not die. This is the death nail for Mythic games for sure. Its incredible how a company formed from ex-monolith employees managed to completely disregard the proper pacing that monolith taught them. I've noticed that most Kickstarter games are no longer a project made my and individual or two but are now created by small companies who will almost always either put the Game out to retail or offer a second printing so I am satisfied with waiting for most of my games. I still back games but with way less FOMO than "new to the hobby" me use tom

[@Spinn0rz]

Don't forget about Devil Pig Games!

[@thecuriousboardgamer]

I partly wonder if CMON had to pay much for the IPs. Mythic wasn't going to be able to do anything more with them, and there's some value to just wiping their hands of it. I'd just like to know what's going to happen with Monsterpocalypse. Since it's owned by Privateer Press, I'm suspecting the only thing that Mythic can do is include any breach of contract claims in their (sure to be announced) bankruptcy. I backed Darkest Dungeon and paid the extra shipping, total spent $484. I suspect the 2nd half will never come. I had also backed Hel at $185, but requested a refund almost immediately upon Darkest Dungeon experiencing problems. I was a few days too late in the queue to get the refund before Mythic called it quits. But, the biggie for me is Monsterpocalypse: $536. That one hurts. I'm pretty cautious in what I back: I avoid tech, rarely back first time creators, and am suspicious of any miniature-based games with a too-good-to-be-true price. I've backed about 500 projects and I have 6 that I'm pretty sure will not be completed.

[@CarstenBernstorff]

The whole Mythic debacle and now lazy squire games with wild assent has really turned me off crowd funding. Mythic also charging shipping and VAT .... Straight up crazy, I hope charges are brought upon them.

[@AdamJorgensen]

I backed Anastyr at the $400 level, paid another $120 or so for shipping. The news that this won't be delivered by Mythic sucks but I had already largely resigned myself to the fact that this would happen. I generally never assume any KS will deliver.

[@afkbrbpizza2750]

Bro! It was millions and we have nothing. What did they do with the money!? They took our money and ran. That isn’t, oh the kickstarter didn’t make it. It was a Ton of money!! Where is the money!? And they probably got paid by CMON for the IP. This is nuts!

[@skancijan]

I backed alote of Mythic games, got Super Fantasy Brawl all in, Darkest Dungeon all in, 6 Siege all in, and backed Hel the last saga...dont have problem with CMON, but they gona change Hel completly, wich is not a game i originaly backed, on top of that need to pay shipping and VAT again for core box they give "free", wich knowing CMON will be around 80$ at least... coz of all that i and prices in general of KS games sky rocket, i stoped backing anything, i just buy games when they hit retails, since you can find complete KS editions in stores for way lees then it would cost you backing it...

[@meeple]

Waiting for a local store to get some KS copies is definitely a way to go. They don’t always have every project, but that’s how I originally got my copy of Death May Die.

[@bijanajamlou5152]

Former superbacker. The answer is no. Why do it when you can wait and get guarantees.

[@Spinn0rz]

Crowdfunding needs guidelines and juridical procedures.

[@trivalentclan-mizar9591]

As a super supporter on Kickstarter and having supported many games and other things on Kickstarter I have lost on at least one game and almost every hardware project I backed. So I never support any electronics/hardware project anymore. I dislike the same number of Kickstarter board games as ones purchased in a physical store.

[@morgaknightgames]

Darkest Dungeon was my first board game kickstarter 😂. At the time they had just successfully delivered Solomon Kane so there weren't too many red flags yet. I also late pledged Hel, and while Anastyr appealed to me for the really unique miniature style, they were so behind and deliveries that I only backed for a dollar. I did pay the extra shipping for the first wave of Darkest Dungeon, which was delivered, but I'm still waiting on an email query regarding the second half so I may never get the rest of the game. I haven't even played the core game yet though because the whole experience was so distasteful. It ended up being one excuse and lie after the next which is why so many people are angry... Plus Mythic started selling the game at 50% off on their site which felt like a slap in the face for those who had literally paid shipping twice over to get the game produced in the first place (and then they ask for a third shipping payment). Regarding CMON I'm in the camp that I'm hopeful. I think that Anastyr is very close to the same style of games that they've already produced, and hopefully won't need too much in the way of tweaking. Also, I really hope that the miniatures are final because Mythic really did have better minis than CMON. I'm VERY concerned about Hel since dark, gritty narrative heavy games are not really what they are known for. I think Trudvang is the closest and that bombed pretty hard. I'll still take a free core box, but it will really depend on what they end up presenting with regards to how excited/ disappointed I'll be in the end. When I started crowdfunding, I made a rule that I'd never back more than two products from a company (two undelivered), and I've stuck to that rule. So far the second half of DD and Hel are the only projects I've supported that have failed. I'm starting to get nervous about Stormsunder😅. I know some people are nervous about CMON having too many projects, but they have a very healthy retail presence, plus their campaigns are pretty regular with their delivery window (almost always arriving 6 months late). Of course they're not too big to fail, but it is reassuring that their sole income is not coming just from Kickstarter funding.

[@meeple]

This is a good philosophy to have!

[@haxan6663]

I lost around £700 on Hel and Anastyr. I appreciate Cmon offering something but I don't think that I will be spending anymore money on it, even shipping snd tax. Hel's canpaign finished in May 2020. Mythic stated that the game was almost finished. This was a lie. At no point have Mythic apologised for their poor money management with, what was, thousands of dollars of backers money. To make the situation worse, Leo recently complained that there was 'unjustifiable anger' towards Mythic. He did say that there had been threats to his family, which no-one should condone, but the anger towards Mythic is totally justified. At the weekend Mythic started posting on Instagram again. Shots of Darkest Dungeon, which many backers did not get and Super Fantasy Brawl, which they no longer own! After one mild but negative comment, they blocked all comments! I have to believe that this was stupidity and not malicious intent?!

[@zenster1097]

Couple days late there. 😅

[@Spinn0rz]

Crowdfunding right now functions as a bank account, transfering money back and forth without consequences.

[@TabletopFamily]

I remember the cooler!!! I remember telling the wife I would beilive it when it lands on usa soil

[@thecrabbydice]

Crowdfunding needs to die ... its not only bout getting a product .. the quality, price and benefots of it dont exist anymore. For each hit there hundreds of crap

[@meeple]

I definitely don’t feel that strongly, but its success will simply live or die by the interest of the gaming community.

[@PsychicLord]

The VAT angle is interesting as they charged VAT for a product that technically does not exist. Hence there should either be a refund, or a fraud case on behalf of the various tax authorities.

[@meeple]

Oh wow, that’s a very interesting point.

[@haxan6663]

The VAT situation is bad as we paid this for a product we didn't get. Although this is dishonest, my understanding is that the authorities are only interested if a product was made and the tax wasn't paid.

[@PsychicLord]

@@haxan6663 In theory that would be fraud, for the money should have been 'ring fenced' for its intended use. I presume the Mythic accounting should show this, else that is another issue, fraudulent bookkeeping.

[@sapien01010]

I dunno, I find Mythic games very unfulfilling

[@meeple]

Badumdum! 🤣

[@dougradcliffe1466]

Mythic are crooks

[@JhoffDJ.]

Please stop the popup sound. So annoying.

[@meeple]

Honest question: Some people like how we do the pop-ups. Would it help if the volume was dialed down a little bit?

[@JhoffDJ.]

@@meepleyep! Would definitely help. But for me I’m just not a fan. Sorry to be so blunt in my first comment lol. Obviously do whatever works for your channel. Just wanted to provide feedback.

[@meeple]

No worries! I generally believe blunt is better. No offense taken. We’ll dial it down. 😁

[@enlightenup4520]

You guys are terrible as news reporters. Don’t assume your audience knows anything. What are the basic facts of the situation? And why throw in assumptive judgements about the situation so early into the video? Geez, it’s like I started eavesdropping in the middle of a conversation.

[@meeple]

We have to assume our viewers have a base knowledge of some events, or our videos would be very very long. If anything came across as judgmental, it was unintended. Our news segments are meant to share what's been heard, and spark further conversation (in our comments or on our discord). Thanks for watching though! 😁

[@TabletopFamily]

Why did people keep pledging when they had multiple projects NOT deliver yet! they were obviously circling the drain years ago. literally in the disclaimers that kicksters not a store I've dropped Thousands on kickstarters. pledge and forget. if you don't have the money to lose then don't pledge it. Some people are just nuts especially with the death threats some people have made against the company.

[@PablowingUrMind]

I didn't even know about their backlog of undelivered stuff and I still did the $1 for Monsterpocalypse. It's beyond me why somebody would do that if available.

[@TabletopFamily]

@@PablowingUrMind they got caught in the cycle of needing to run another "campaign" to pay for the last game

[@sigepohio]

When Hel was on KS in 2020, they did not have the backlog of projects (I think they only had 2 smaller projects and Solomon Kane was delivering). They ran darkest Dungeon and 6 Siege AFTER Hel, and those projects are being delivered. Red Flags are easy to spot after the fact, during the time period it was less easy. Especially with Hel, which was misrepresented as being closer to production than it was and then back burnered for later projects. I do kick myself for Anastyr since by that point I should have seen the trouble brewing.

[@TabletopFamily]

@@sigepohio I remember there very first game was practically unplayable. Joan of ark. Then there were legal issues I guess with the I.p. I remember not having much faith in any of there products with a little research. But proably by the time they were on the scene I was already more skeptical of most kickstarter even being fun let alone a good production.