CNC Machine Coolant and Water Quality | Clearing Up the Confusion!

[@MaxWattage]

In my local area the water all comes from chalk aquifers. I measured its hardness as 65 Rockwell.

[@SaxySweed]

hahaha xD

[@ExMachinaEngineering]

Is it still 65 if you measure further down the bucket? It might only be case hardened...

[@matspatpc]

When I need to build a new building, I just pour water straight out of the tap, no need for mixing in cement and stuff like that, just let the water dry a bit, and you have your foundation. Well, maybe not quite, but nearly... ;)

[@larryblount3358]

Coolant maintenance is not complete without discussion of disposal of old coolant.

[@thomasdwyer4362]

55 Gallon drum. Drum heater band, sump pump (to churn and bring hot water to the top for evaporation) . Once it's down to 2-3 gallons we dump into our oil recycling. About 7-9 days per a drum. Looks like a couldron.

[@occamssawzall3486]

Still use filtered on the initial fill up and if foaming occurs, add in powered calcium acetate. This allows you to control the exact amount and the exact type of mineral to harden the water up some. Relying on the whatever in tap water isn’t good, especially since municipal water supplies have things like chlorides and fluorides added. And for mixing valves. I highly recommend a dosatron system. Venturi systems are ok, but are susceptible to changes in flow rate from your tap. If you’re on a system that has flaky flow rates from the town, you’ll be constantly tweaking that little needle valve to maintain concentrations. A dosatron eliminates the flow rate problem all together and mixes at exact concentrations regardless of flow rate fluctuations

[@gusbisbal9803]

For anyone that didn't know. RO water is Reverse Osmosis filtration. Di water is De-Ionoised water. Basically distilled water. Why he didn't say that is because he is talking to himself, not an audience.

[@occamssawzall3486]

gus bisbal DI and Distilled water are not even remotely similar DI removes only charged, non-organic compounds. Any organic compounds remain in the water. Which is typically why you have an ROI system. An RO system to remove organic compounds and a post DI system to remove the inorganic compounds. Distillation removes all organic and inorganic compounds and not just charged ion inorganics. Both are suitable for making coolant, but there’s a vast difference between distilled and DI water.

[@RG-3PO]

I love this topic and I hope it turns into a series. I have just been dealing with coolant issues where I work (German auto parts manufacturer in the US). We, unfortunately, tend to ignore the coolant situation, and I directly deal with all of the issues mentioned in the video - tool life, surface finish, and chip evacuation problems. Even though I am the low man on the totem pole at work, I already see some things I am going to do tomorrow after watching this one video. Namely, calibrating my refractometer. The good thing about dealing with a topic others ignore at work is that I have the freedom to try new things and hopefully get things done. Other coolant problems I see is bacteria/fungal over growth in the coolant sumps (to the point I couldn't imagine coolant lasting 6 months) and foaming issues. Another coolant related video I would like to see is one about coolant nozzles - ideal placement, creative/unique nozzle solutions.

[@gbowne1]

There are so many types of coolant and many different types of water, add to that the many different appliciation systems, TSC, mist, flood, MQL, it would be great to have a guide to everything.

[@TheTsunamijuan]

But electrolytes give CNC machines the nutrients they crave!

[@TheImageThief]

I lubricate my CNC with Brawndo, it’s got what CNC’s need!!! - obscure “idiocracy” movie reference. ;)

[@dford344]

Quali Chem was purchased by a Japan company. They have change their coolant spec. One change has caused a shorter shelf life. I’ve been using it for years, and then I notice it happen this year. Then I found why last month.

[@castle5711]

Source for that info? Thx.

[@wiley635]

QualiChem was purchased by Yushiro Chemical, the leading global Japanese fluid supplier, because QualChem standards and specs are high.

[@dford344]

My sores from west coast. The changes has cause a shorter shelf life. I’ve notice it happen this year. In the past years my shelf life was more than a year. I have been using Quali Chem for more than three years. With my new machine coming next moth. I’m debating between Quali Chem are Blazer.

[@wiley635]

The new Japanese owners have not touched any of the products or processes at QualiChem. If by shelf life you mean sump life, I suggest you contact your local QualiChem rep to help you get sorted out. Shelf life of the concentrate has always been 1 year from date of production for most of the QualiChem products. [e-mail] to get you started.

[@Pieh0]

Weird, we always use to fill up with tap water. Driving around the factory with an IBC of water topping up the machines every week or 2 was a fun job. Probably explains why the machines stunk like hell and there was a nice brown layer to the top.

[@JohnGrimsmo]

Excellent video bud! I've been waiting for this series. I'll be going with DI water.

[@kchigley5309]

Set an evaporator on top of your heat treat oven, run that into a condenser and make your own distilled :P

[@NONAMESLEFTNONE]

This info is gold right now as I'm currently having issues with my coolant system. When I mixed the coolant to some 'purified' water it instantly turned into a soupy, thick mess and my refractometer is off-the-charts. I'm not production yet and will definitely need to come back to this. I'll be watching this again! Thx John.

[@occamssawzall3486]

NONAMESLEFTNONE That sounds like you mixed it backwards. You measured out the concentrate first then poured the water into that. You basically made mayonnaise... Get the water first, and pour (while mixing) the concentrate, into the water.

[@NONAMESLEFTNONE]

@@occamssawzall3486 LOL that made me laugh! Mayonnaise is a perfect description. And you're right: I did it backwards. I'll take your info moving fwd and launch my product! Thx.

[@aimfg.3395]

I would love to see a detailed follow up on your Ro system

[@bigbattenberg]

Very interesting subject as I am in a new job where coolant management is non-existent and most machines run with stuff that is close to raw sewage... I have been wondering if there are systems for active chilling/ refrigeration of coolant especially during machine operation but also while sitting idle? For precision work I imagine this would be critical. Also, keeping the coolant cool would obviously inhibit organism growth. For periods where machines are sitting idle for weeks (like during holidays) what would be the best approach to prevent spoilage? I have heard several machine operators say they had a problem just after the last summer holidays. I think it would be great to collect the coolant in IBCs and store them at low temperature in a walk-in fridge or something, maybe have it circulated and aerated at the same time? Some pretty far-fetched ideas I know and surely nothing our management is going to do, LOL. Furthermore, also everyone is saying that having the used up coolant disposed of is 'super expensive' (so they think running spoilt coolant is somehow cheaper). But, I was thinking it's like 95 percent water so is it not possible to evaporate the water out again through natural means? We have a pretty large facility, thinking of putting large flat drip trays covered with glass so ideally the wind and sun can do it. Just another wild idea, LOL. Would love to hear your input. Keep up the good work. Greetings from Holland.

[@gasparini76]

Top video. Some terminologies are not familiar. But it would be great if you could go through these details step by step in terms of how to identify what type of water you have vs what are the options on the market for coolant. For me, the video was very quick and I need to watch it again a few times. I used to be a CNC operator in the past and coolant used in factories do not have a huge lifespan and cooling normally smells funny quite easily. 1) How you keep your machine clean internally without affecting coolant is also another interesting subject. 2) How to avoid metal parts without corrosion protection being affected by the coolant which contains a lot of water? I hope are not silly questions. thx a lot

[@occamssawzall3486]

André Gasparini Funny smells is the result of tramp oil in the sump promoting anaerobic bacterial growth that produce sulfate waste products and gives off an rotten egg smell. Weekly manual skimming of the tramp oil with a barrel vac, and installing an aquarium air bubbler to pump oxygen into the tank will eliminate that. And if the machines are getting heavy amounts of tramp oil, installing an automatic trampoline skimmer should be considered. As for corrosion, every coolant on the market has anti-corrosion additives in it. If you’re getting corrosion from your coolant, it means your concentrations are wrong.

[@qwerty3663]

What about the garage shop with one machine like when you first got your 1100? Getting people to deal with supply and disposal at micro quantities instead of monthly contract is an additional nut to crack.

[@ciscohernandez4384]

Here is the solution that worked for me. I'm a small shop, 2 machines, using Synergy 735. From coolant vendor, they advise to only use DI water. Reached out to a company called Eversoft and leased one DI tank for $30/month. I opted to by a "light" which is basically a sensor checking when the resin starts going bad. Once the light goes off I call them for a swap. I've had my coolant for a year now and it remains crystal clear. Before that, I had to buy water from a local car wash store who sells DI water. I was paying $20/month to buy it, not to mentioned the trips (about 5 miles out) and the load/unload from my truck, which was a pain. It was a no brainer for me. Hope that helps

[@LakshmananLM]

Synergy 735 initial cost is very high, though.

[@ciscohernandez4384]

@@LakshmananLM How so?

[@LakshmananLM]

@@ciscohernandez4384 what I meant was Blaser products especially the newer versions are very expensive. At least where I am. Granted, the sump life of this synthetic coolant is long and it doesn't mar aluminium surfaces like other synthetic metal working fluids. Cheers

[@ciscohernandez4384]

@@LakshmananLM Hmmmm, I got a quote for synergy 750 and some qualichem. Synergy was like $20 more for a 5 gallon pale. The coolant rep told me that because my machine was new and this was going to be the first coolant to break the machine in, they would top it off for free. Got 2 five gallon pales for free. It was a no brainer for me. Grant it, it's a way for them to keep me as a customer but I'm happy with it. I'm in southern california.

[@LakshmananLM]

@@ciscohernandez4384 you've got a very good deal. Here in South East Asia we get special pricing that will make a grown man cry. Exchange rate and ridiculous taxation. It is an excellent fluid though. Ours unfortunately is a very price sensitive market, and low industrial requirements for high performance products can't justify lowering prices for something shipped from Switzerland. You should see at least 2 years on your sump life with good care. I'm not an end user, but had been selling and doing after sales service for them. Here in my region, our jobbing houses refuse to acknowledge that cutting fluids are as important as all other process inputs. Not to mention cavalier attitude towards recycling and waste disposal. Having terrible flashbacks now. Cheers

[@elanmfg197]

We have fairly hard water and I need to descale my kettle every two weeks otherwise I'll have tea with snowflakes ... I now filter my own water (5um particle filter + carbon filter + RO membrane) and that system contains a flush valve to clean the membrane - it reverses the membrane and flushes out all solids. I went down from a TDS value of 190 to 3-5. The DI resin filter brings that down to 0. Some tips when using an RO membrane filter: use an extra high pressure pump (8-10 bar) to get a better flow rate from your RO filter and measure both inlet + waste water quantities* to keep track of the flow rate - if that drops too much you need to flush or replace your filters. Also measure the TDS value of your water on a regular basis. *) instead of measuring the water quantity you can also measure the amount of RO/DI water produced in a given time

[@parkerengines]

I am hoping this series also covers mist/mql systems. Which coolants work well for it, concentrations, flow rate, etc.

[@parkerengines]

@@robc2536 Is that something you found better after testing other kinds too? I was using Koolmist but it leaves weird discoloring on aluminum, switched to Qualichem but I don't know if its actually good for mist.

[@alumatechrussia]

We use ethanol sprayed on the tool, also plasma dlc coating, for aluminium cutting and milling enough i think, btw we thinking what lubricant dissolve in ethanol for better tool life.

[@thekaduu]

All good info... One must keep checking the incoming water (if being used)... It may be all good and well until some oil company decides to do fracking upstream to your ground water, eroding all kinds of limestone and other calcium compounds... :/

[@bcbloc02]

Great video on an often overlooked topic.

[@Jeff-yy5fe]

Great job! Is a coolant skimmer system worth it, does it increase the longevity of the coolant?

[@occamssawzall3486]

Jeff m510 Yes/no. It doesn’t so much improve the life of the coolant, as it does prevent the growth of bacteria that causes the foul rotten egg smell. Bad smelling coolant doesn’t really mean the coolant has “gone bad” it has lost little of its functionality, it just smells bad. But bad smelling coolant pleases nobody in the shop. A less expensive option to try is putting in an aquarium air bubbler into the sump. It will keep the coolant oxygenated and slow down the bacterial growth.

[@mitchlichtenberg1858]

Awesome video John; coolant maintenance is still black magic to me. Since I only run my MiniMill2 on weekends, I have serious evaporation issues, and use a deionizer to top off occasionally. Perhaps you could go into more detail on exactly how to use a refractometer? I get nice distinct lines in mine (ExTech) for the reference water, but it's really hard to make out the concentration of the coolant (QC245C) - I just don't see a line, more of a gradient. I'm pretty sure I'm not off the scale (at least I hope not!), and am certain it's just operator error on my part.

[@davids2928]

Awesome info. Can you explain more about how you chose the coolant and what the best coolant is for all types of materials like steel, copper, AL, plastics, etc. Thanks! I love the videos where you talk about actual numbers and costs. It is so great to not see "normalized numbers". I know things are expensive but that's the reality and should be shared.

[@bernardwill7196]

I love your videos - it is a lot of fun and Knowledge - do this again Greetings from Germany P,S . Water purity was also in the steam time important - Lokomotives need ( had needed ) "weak" water that means around 9 or below °dH - °dH means Deutsche Härte - 9 °dH is smooth water

[@MorganOliff]

fun fact: machining tons of copper and making lots of fine chips seems to effectively nuke the bacteriological issue. :) we run exclusively Deionized water, even in the saws and manual lathes now. It makes great cutting fluid, just be mindful of the fact that the DI water is looking to strip ions from whatever it touches. We should have probably been doing our initial charge with at least some amount of tap water. currently running QC 250C, and QC Xtreme Cool 335.

[@MorganOliff]

To clarify about the DI: it ate some of the Zinc plating from of our fasteners inside the machine. didnt seem to bother the paint or bare metal like the table. the guys also like to try to run it extremely low brix, like 2.0

[@occamssawzall3486]

Re-ionize your DI water with some calcium acetate. It’s cheap and doesn’t take much. That is the major downside of DI water, it’s a heavy oxidizer, will rust cast iron and steels instantly. And 2.0 brix is WAY too low. 5 is a bare minimum for most coolants.

[@MorganOliff]

Occams Sawzall I wanted to run the stuff at 5.0 but it was decided at around 2.0 by management because they didnt like the smell. Technically 2.0 Is in the range acceptable for grinding according to Qualichem.

[@MorganOliff]

Occams Sawzall the iron surfaces never got any rust, it just attacked the plating on all of the fasteners.

[@occamssawzall3486]

Morgan Oliff I know someone who ran DI water through a cast iron pump and didn’t know why after a day or so there was an orange color to the water...

[@cwhuffman01]

Now that's what I call high quality H2O.

[@grant133]

Gaaaatorraaaaade.

[@grant133]

@Julie SMW IT'S WHAT PLANTS CRAVE.

[@grant133]

@Julie SMW BUT BRAWNDO'S GOT WHAT PLANTS CRAVE..... IT'S GOT ELECTROLYTES...

[@grant133]

@Julie SMW You like all the good movies! I'm impressed!! 🤣

[@tsclly2377]

seriously important topic.. watch the using of acronyms all the time R/ O. = reverse osmosis? well you did show it.

[@timmallard5360]

Whats the best practice for a basement Tormach user where the machine can sit for a while. Stick to the fog buster?

[@wiley635]

If you are using a coolant that requires 24/7 circulation, then something is wrong.

[@wiley635]

@CT, thanks for the clarification. I’ve been involved with systems of all shapes and sizes. I agree with your statement that more volume is better than less volume. Coolants are intended to cool, so the more volume you have the more heat that can be removed. But if a product is unstable without reconciliation, then it is unstable. Circulation only gives the impression of stability by keeping a coolant mechanically mixed. If it splits when you turn off the pumps, then you have a problem. The system will consume more concentrate than a system using a stable fluid. Recirculating by itself does nothing for the actual stability of the coolant.

[@split141x]

I use two aquatic tank bubbles. It uses a little pump to push air to the bottom of the tank and helps keep the coolant circulating. You would only need one for a tormach. Before using them I was getting some sort of growth on the top layer but now it doesn't do it. My machine can sit anywhere from 12 hours to 48 hours without running so its good coolant insurance because coolant is expensive!

[@bradselph6463]

Great video!!! If anyone needs RO water check out your local salt water fish store.

[@davidriley7659]

It might sound silly, but why not just use straight tap water with a really super fine nozzle, and not 'recycle it'? Example, I can't imagine the fog buster would use more than a litre an hour. Which over a full day would be two toilet flushes.

[@michaelwelborn3004]

Why Qualichem 251C? Why not non-chlorinated 250C?

[@kzinty]

Thank-you! I did not know RO/DI water was so easy until I saw this video and followed your links. I am flushing my RO membrane right now. OK What do we do with so much waste water. I think we need to limit the waste output. I will experiment a little.

[@LocoFabandMachineworks]

What is recommended for low use manual machines Not a fan of water based coolants due to rust/ bio issues Prefer a oil based

[@occamssawzall3486]

Loco Fab “oil based” is just straight cutting oil. There’s several vegetable oil based straight cutting fluids. There should be no rust issues with water based coolants though, if there is, the coolant was either mixed at the wrong concentration, or mixed improperly. Water based emulsification coolants are mixed by the O.I.L method. Oil In Last. You get all your water first. THEN add in the coolant concentrate. Doing it in the reverse will cause improper mixing and often cause the emulsion to spilt, so you have separate oil and water components in the sump, with the water component causing the rusting issues.

[@RyanSorkness]

Been waiting for this episode for a while! Especially after it being talked about on the podcast

[@Texicles]

Just spent last week at Qualichem's training seminar at their facility and I was happy to hear John Wiley talking about trying to get more involved with NYC CNC specifically, and the broader manufacturing entrepreneur community.

[@mikeklesh5640]

I only use distilled water. I get weird looks when I fill a cart at Kroger. I’ve been asked “you stocking a bomb shelter?” 🤣🤣

[@wiley635]

Distilled water is perfectly OK to use for mixing with coolant. The lack of minerals is exactly why it, like DI water, would be preferable over most city tap waters. The minerals in the water are what interfere with coolant components.

[@castle5711]

Excellent points! Looking forward to the series!

[@occamssawzall3486]

* whistles in in-house compression vapor distillation machine...*

[@0ADVISOR0]

I like your videos, I'd love to build my own cnc machine out of nema17 steppers, but I doub't they are strong enough. Maybe a robot arm.. who knows. Keep up the good work.

[@BloodSprite-tan]

well if you're planning to build a cnc 3d printer nema17 steppers would work fine.

[@sleddarcheddar]

Most coolant reps don't know shit. I've found only one that knew what he was talking about and he's our guy now. I bought a di system for 600 bucks and it'll get us a few thousand gallons before needing to replace the resin for $200 or so. One thing to keep in mind is most coolants when splitting will take an assload of the hardness with them and get skimmed out. I have one machine with coolant from 5-6-16 and one with coolant from the beginning of 2017. Both are doing well.

[@MikeBramm]

Be very careful when using de-ionized water as it will tend to strip ions from anything it touches. Sure, it's basically pure H2O and is VERY soft to the touch (which feels really weird), but using it in metal-based machines can potentially cause corrosion. You might want to look into adding ions to the mix in order to balance the system back out in a very controlled way. Your coolant manufacturer should be able to help you with this. An R.O. system is much safer and will usually give you great quality water, as long as it's designed for your needs.

[@occamssawzall3486]

MikeBramm No need. The coolant concentrate will re-ionize it. The only real problem you may get is excessive foaming, in which a small amount of calcium acetate will fix. About 1 tsp per 10 gal of coolant should be enough to prevent foaming.

[@ContraptionCollection]

Great Video!

[@leosmi1]

"Cause everyday is getting colder"♪♫♬♭♮

[@ScroungerLee]

Nice video. I appreciate your going into all these different topics. That took a lot of editing didn’t it :-)

[@Eluderatnight]

Wally world distilled water at $0.90/ga L is normally good.

[@misiukowalski5653]

Daily cleaning routine on your Haas VM2 : ) Others ok too

[@aaronhenderson4359]

Thanks Mark Terryberry for helping me re-create a video out of his tip of the day segment is what the title of this video should read. Stem off of that on a different direction, delete this video and come at it from a machinist talking to his boss about changing the way a company views coolant. 100+ CNC machines in our shop every single one running the same shit.. Address that in a manner that might bring change to a company from the level of a CNC machinist.

[@aaronhenderson4359]

The only way I can get away from foaming is to slow down, my company views it as a non issue but if I didn't have to slow down over a petty issue like this and mop up the bullshit it creates production would increase by the amount I have to drop my rapid movements to combat this issue and I'm not versed enough on this topic to have that conversation with a higher up.

[@rickmandrey6760]

GREAT VIDEO! thanks

[@Aumtechinnovation]

Rolltech Innovation manufactures machine coolant saver. Serious threats to productivity and health are bacteria and fungi which are commonly found in industrial coolants. This coolant bacteria filter has some advantageous features include: last a life time, with guarantee of extended life of coolant with bacteria filter - no consumables, no electricity, no chemical dosing, etc. It is a one time investment, ROI within 4-6 Months, Saves on input of fresh oil and disposal cost like etp treatment, or giving it to authorised recycler. These mineral oil based coolant are prone to generation of bacteria which produces foul odour, often from hydrogen sulfide [rotten egg smell]. Rolltech Innovation "Aqualogic" filter is an innovative and economical method of continuously controlling these micro organisms and the odour they generate. "Aqualogic" bacteria coolant filter consists of series of high-purity multi-metal fibres cased within a stainless steel tube. the dissimilar ions in the multimetal alloy bed undergo a natural electrochemical reaction, also known as an oxidation-reduction reaction. Which Kills the all the Microbial activity in the coolant 24/7 call us at [phone] or write to us at rolltechin(at)gmail.com

[@dbooker3182]

What if you already have an in house still, haha

[@stevelamperta865]

Why not just distill your water or you can even buy distilled water. Its the only way to get pure water with no minerals or anything else. No filtration system out there can compare to distilling . This is a fact.

[@waller393]

Face mill at 10k lol why

[@itsallsimplefacts]

saul aparicio aluminum

[@stonecraft745]

Gold!

[@Bread996]

Nothing worse than a smelly coolant tank. I refused to use the coolant on some of the machines at my last machine shop. I’d rather burn up tools or smoke out the shop with cutting oil than have nasty biohazard coolant splash in my face!

[@TheDJHeadless]

Too many jump cuts, makes you sound like a crackhead talking to me in front of the local pub after finding out I'm a machinist.

[@snowgoer540]

NO GATORADE IS BETTER!!!!