COCONUT ISLAND RETURNS: I Did Not Expect This Response To The Analogy (DEBATE)

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#debate #politics #controversy

[@TheVaushPit]

Check out the other debate Vaush did yesterday, over Russia and U.S. Intervention: kzbin.info/www/bejne/r6fEkpJ4bc55nbs

[@FelisImpurrator]

The other one was better, if only because Vaush spent a lot less time inaccurately reading into the speaker's emotional state (largely because, well, right-libertarians have the emotional complexity of an actual cinderblock). This person clearly wasn't approaching anything with a smug or superior tone. She clearly sounded like someone who has only ever had to engage with the relevant concepts in an abstract, detached, theoretical sense due to completely lacking firsthand experience. It's not "oh, she thinks it's poor people's fault they're poor", it's "oh, she doesn't understand that the just world fallacy isn't reflective of reality and that the system might actually kind of not be great for everyone because she's never been in those situations." She only understands the economy in terms of all the theory (and propaganda) she was no doubt fed in her cushy econ/business degree. This is like talking to someone who grew up in a landlocked town and has never seen the sea, before the internet, and debating the necessity of tsunami protection. They don't get it. They don't understand the concept of a tsunami, because they have literally never seen the ocean in a way that makes it feel like a real thing in their heads. They think you're talking about a little leak in the roof from the odd rainstorm because that's the closest thing in their frame of reference. At least Vaush more or less ended up at a reasonably accurate conclusion eventually. Just lacking the important factor that people like this are actively suckered into this position by giant capitalist propaganda machines and are effectively ideal victims for the big grift.

[@gourdguru]

@@FelisImpurrator exactly, this person was a victim of the snowglobe effect. shelter, privilege, and lack of experience enclose and insulate, and a purely academic/theoretical understanding distorts the outside image like a fish eye lens. the only caveat i will say is, around nearing the end around when he called her argument contemptuous, she was essentially making a veiled bad faith argument and i think he called her card perfectly, she was essentially making the protestant work ethic argument that poor people deserve to be poor because they are immoral/lazy/make bad choices, but she's just veiling it in neutral language, saying "Different choices" rather than "Bad choices" but making the exact same argument. i think she does subconsciously hold that people just need to "play the game" better as a result of her purely theoretical econ 101 understanding. it's like never playing monopoly, but reading the official rules as written, and then trying to navigate an actual home game, and getting stunlocked by something common but unofficial, like property auctions etc. i think the reason he calls it out harder is because most of her mannerisms and oversimplistic positions held with concrete confidence, are very common sights among the homeschooled STEMlord types, and i would know, i was homeschooled. and i'd bet my left kidney she was too, but i think she's an accidental STEMlord, not a conscious "Feeding my ego through stroking my intellect" STEMlord. i think that's where Vaush may have misread the vibes. her skull density was infuriating, nevertheless. this is the level of stupidity that i think can only be healed through "evangelical literacy", by striking her over the head with a large textbook and yelling "You will LEARN by the POWER of REASON! YES, Brothers and Sisters, PRAISE LOGIC!!".

[@FelisImpurrator]

@@gourdguru No, no. That's the thing. I think she might, and I mean this in the most sincere way from deep personal experience, literally just be too autistic to lie or doublespeak about anything she said. I think she's following a perfectly logical path to a conclusion from absolutely incoherent garbage priors. I have zero reason to believe what she said about different choices was a dogwhistle because it follows perfectly from what she went in believing. Namely: The average American has it pretty good and life isn't actually all that hard. Why does she believe that? Because her textbooks said the system works, the studies paid for by neoliberal think tanks say the system works, all she's ever seen of this is abstract numbers that say GDP big and quality of life pretty good actually, and she thinks this whole thing of being driven to sell furniture is one of those spherical cow equations to solve. I'd be willing to actually bet she genuinely believes people mostly live decent lives and that not having a pile of money from stocks is some kind of viable lifestyle choice people voluntarily choose, that works out fine because hey, they must have rationally decided to maximize value in their own way by figuring a TV would get them more happiness than a diverse investment portfolio. If you go in with the baseline assumption that the American economy is Fine and that the middle class is thriving and poverty is one of those abstract things that's still like... decent compared to Those Other Countries, it's easy to arrive at this. If you've grown up your whole life surrounded by an entire society that preaches just world fallacy as a fact of the world, but also believe that people are generally decent and don't deserve to suffer, it's easy to mental gymnastics yourself into a place of "well they must not have it that bad, because if they're not Bad People they must not be suffering THAT much". That sounds insane to us, but think about it for a moment and tell me that isn't plausible. No, I think she's the opposite of a conservative, who would approach this with open, seething disdain for the "lazy" poor. I think brainwashing and isolation and her own processes of rationalization have tricked her into believing that unfairness is, while bad and something she wants addressed, just a minor road bump in an otherwise sensible system. Man. My unironic take here? I'm going full anarcho-ponyist and making my actual political position that she needs friends more than anything else. Real friends. Not opportunists who want to latch onto "success", not obnoxious wokescold types who will scream at her for not understanding how social class works, but straight up friends who will just... Exist and hang around her and passively expose her to reality by living it in proximity, and demonstrate a straight up My Little Pony level of patience toward her ignorance. She already has perfectly functional reasoning; her dataset is just garbage, like an AI trained on incoherent nonsense. I mean, that or some kind of Engels tier come to Jesus moment where complacent bourgeoisie are suddenly exposed to the sheer depths of unspeakable suffering created by income inequality, but that's a lot harder because the stock market literally exists as a mechanism to keep shareholders alienated from their holdings. The stock market is the giant dome that keeps the upper class from ever touching grass, the holographic window that projects a fake blue sky. The ultimate tool to dehumanize labor.

[@FelisImpurrator]

@@breadtunes No no, she is smart. Trust me, you would be no better off if you grew up in the ideological and socioeconomic equivalent of a cage. You can't just magically start knowing what you don't know.

[@FelisImpurrator]

@@breadtunes You act as if that's just an intrinsic thing people do without sufficient external motivation. This is false. Even as someone who is all but hardwired to seek out new information, I know better than to think that environmental factors didn't contribute to the way I approach knowledge. You seem to be intent on treating this as the basis for some kind of value judgment, as if you want to position some people as fundamentally better than others. Besides being ableist, your whole attitude toward this is reactionary. Intelligence isn't an essential trait, nor is it a generalized one; intelligence is highly compartmentalized and overwhelmingly influenced by environment. She probably has special interests she does seek knowledge about, but at the same time, likely lives in an information bubble where real experience is highly limited by socioeconomic forces.

[@RazorFringe2]

"You're not very good on economic issues." - some minutes later "Everyone can become self-employed." This person was dumb and infuriating.

[@RaccKing21]

Ah yes, I'll open my own radiology clinic, right next to 44 other ones from the rest of my class. Absolute clown show.

[@Ravengeno]

"Everyone can attempt to become self-emplyed" Thank god you have infinite attempts and no obligations or needs. Just try until you make it. What a good and free choice.

[@InternetLaser]

It is true that every individual person has a choice between self employment and working for somebody else, people make the rational decision to work for an employer as risk mitigation.

[@Ravengeno]

@@ConsciusVeritasVids Just use your inherited wealth, like all of us other people.

[@mishatestras5375]

"like you" she said to the guy who needs to employ editors and cutters to be self-employed

[@canadagoose8543]

Her "If you can't afford food, just sell your fridge" logic is the new "If you're homeless, buy a house" meme.

[@ironknightgaming5706]

"If you're homeless just sell your tent"

[@Kyle-vg2io]

If you can't afford bread, sell your cake

[@kasane1337]

"If you're afraid of floods, just sell your house and move"

[@cctomcat321]

She literally did the "just move" meme, I about died of shock with the unironic troll points as a real viewpoints. That, and who even argues the non-coercion stuff? Seems like a dumb concession to not make considering most people can understand the difference between a decision and an ultimatum.

[@materialdialectics]

"If you can't afford the dentist, just sell your teeth"

[@jeremyshahan2218]

We did it folks. We found someone to play the final card against the Coconut Quandary. "Unfair but completely consensual"

[@pancakes8670]

It demonstrates a lot of people really don't understand what consent is.

[@SirRebrl]

@@pancakes8670 "Of course it's consensual, you could always choose to just fuckin' die." Blows my mind every time I see someone actually say something like that.

[@Stewie1991]

“The implication.” -IASIP

[@verager2493]

She doesn't acknowledge coercion because the only people she talks to are people she has leverage over. Karen thinks she's slick because people who work for her "agree" with her

[@briannoel7398]

​@@SirRebrlI've unironically heard people irl defend slavery with that logic. "Well they could just run away if it was that bad" jfc

[@kristianwilliamson6527]

Someone: "im a single mom and got evicted and i can't afford an apartment" This woman: "skill issue"

[@nickziegler1904]

Conservative ideology in a nutshell

[@mckenzie.latham91]

"Your priorities were different" Lol what a C#$t

[@imacds]

Just sell your kids to pay for rent.

[@stephenwithaph1566]

Ive talked to these people and they are empty of all insight; every time.

[@ComradeChyrk]

What do you mean she can't afford an apartment? Why doesn't she just sell her kids?

[@TheKrossRoads]

By this woman's own logic, if she encountered a mugger who threatened her life for her wallet, and she gave the wallet, she could NOT go to the police and say her wallet was stolen from her. The police would then say "No, you chose to give that money up, you could have just died instead. There is no theft if a choice is made". Something tells me she wouldn't quite like it if she actually lived the philosophy she defends here.

[@CapytanCrimp]

Ah to be 25 again

[@RagingRugbyst]

To be fair, you could challenge the actual willingness of the armed robber to actually kill somebody. I best most wouldn't. Dumb way to die if you are wrong though.

[@MichaelEhrmantraut12]

This is not analogous. The mugger is a threat, but the coconut merchant is not. The merchant will not harm you if you walk away, but the mugger probably will. You can choose to cooperate with both, but only one of them will compensate you.

[@Spyno41]

​@@MichaelEhrmantraut12Actually, theyre both analogous. If you give the wallet, youll live! If you give head youll live!

[@yoyohayli]

​@MichaelEhrmantraut12 the whole "not having coconuts to eat, which is the only thing I could eat" would harm me. It's holding food hostage. My life over bodily autonomy.

[@xx_isabel_the_wolf_xx3869]

My AnCap lesbian villain character has come to life. I apologize for the inconvenience Vaush nation.

[@Nyanx4]

Damn you and your OCs. No but seriously, with how out of touch with the realities of Americans living in poverty really did make her feel like a cartoon character.

[@tsarzamancorpdna]

@@Nyanx4 at a certain point i just assumed the lady debating vaush was just trolling idk how someone can be that impossibly dense unless its on purpose

[@Badbufon]

the dimensional merge is finally upon us!!!

[@CorndogMaker]

but is your character hot though?

[@hostomelhorsehoarder]

Least schizophrenic vaushite

[@brian_cream]

"Nobody stores money in the form of money in the bank" Oh my god this woman does not live in reality.

[@spartanworrior4519]

Bold of you to think we have money to store 😂

[@braxinIV]

@@spartanworrior4519was about to say. She’s right…. Cuz I’m broke af!

[@andrzejpietkiewicz4553]

She does, but it's the reality of her social class. And she's utterly unaware of it, which seems to be the condition of her class worldwide. How did it go? Livelihood determines consciousness?

[@AdamLH96]

Nobody tell her about savings accounts

[@zaneburgess2375]

She was at the very least with hiding info on her living situation. She has 40k in stocks. At 23 dollars an hour for 6 years, that's literally 1/6 her gross income at 40 hrs a week. And that's assuming she made 23 the whole time.

[@Splooshua.]

Can’t believe she says people should just sell their furniture to pay off their debts 💀💀

[@arseniykorchevskiy1564]

And when you’re out of furniture just take out some debt, after all the bank decided you’d be able to pay it back!

[@boeufbourgeoisie]

Literally, understand the concept of negative liquid cashflow

[@Shadowman4710]

Because we all have furniture worth millions of dollars.

[@Nyanx4]

@@Shadowman4710 Good to know I can sell my used cat tree to pay off any student loans I have. Or the dining table that's falling apart and that it's dangerous to sit near... Or my mattress that I've been sleeping on for 12 years. Or you know, I could sell my phone- something that's usually essential for even getting a paying job in the first fucking place.

[@justin-md4xm]

Nah just their thousands of dollars in stock

[@JARV9701]

This debate was painful to watch, she was so dense to the point that not even liberals economic basics could get throught her. He said it best "I cannot even get to the communist talking points, because we cannot even agree on the basis of reality." Ohhh God with the comment section.

[@justsomeguy6336]

Well communism isn’t based in reality.

[@weeb6316]

@@justsomeguy6336disagree but why you think that

[@danzoom]

​@@weeb6316 he seems like a weirdo, judging by his other comments 😬

[@justsomeguy6336]

@@weeb6316 Because it ignores human nature and economics. Why do you disagree?

[@outercat]

@@justsomeguy6336 I'm so tired of the capitalist religious dogma of "humans bad". tow a more interesting line, buddy. this one is debunked and stale.

[@daneater957]

Did anyone else find it troubling that she made an argument that essentially justified r*p* before she questioned coconut island's assumed monopoly?

[@MILOPETIT]

Anyone who's willing to publicly defend capitalism is probably in favor of all kinds of abuse

[@kacidy]

Im not sure she sincerely holds that belief as much as she's showing off her Olympic gold medal worthy mental gymnastic skills.

[@daneater957]

@@kacidy For sure, but to put that out into the world itself is a crime against humanity.

[@Saurawr]

People who say "its consensual" to coconut island can be just written off entirely, period. I can accept "its nonconsensual, but acceptable to me" or "That example is nonconsensual, but to expand it out it means almost everything is nonconsensual, so your metaphor is kind of pointless". Thats a totally fine response in my opinion, Coconut Island is not some undefeatable metaphor, its incredibly basic and thats OK. But if you can't even pass that test... i don't think you're worth even talking to. If I was Vaush I would have just made fun of her for about four minutes and ended the call there if she couldn't get past it.

[@daneater957]

I agree! I think its funny because the metaphor does bring up the economic ideas about the amount of producers in a market and barriers to entry for certain markets. But she doesn't even consider those lol. I mean, it IS an econ discussion after all.

[@Scooter_Alice]

Say it with me folks: COERCED CONSENT IS NOT MEANINGFUL CONSENT

[@marcmacaluso2795]

According to whom--The 2 people on Coconut Island 🏝 Or Vaush? Is *_Vaush All Mighty_* the final word on meaningfulness in the fictional Island he fabricated. Is *_Vaush All Mighty_* The Law

[@comyuse9103]

but if you put a gun to my head i have the option to just say no and die, how is that not consent!?

[@the-gadfly4743]

One can consent to a coercive transaction if they wish to. Just because you do not consider the consent meaningful doesn't mean that you get to decide for someone else, whether they consider their consent meaningful.

[@herec0mestheCh33f]

​@@marcmacaluso2795no It's me Dio

[@herec0mestheCh33f]

​@the-gadfly4743 "but what if the jew in a concentration camp doesn't run away because the consequences are them getting shot that obviously means they consent to be in the concentration camp uhuehuehue " tell me you have fridge temp iq without telling me you have fridge temp iq

[@avalus6]

She said supply and demand didn't exist for labor in feudal society but then literally points out that when the black death killed off a lot of peasants, they got more negotiation power and higher returns which is a perfect example of supply of labor decreasing and therefore the amount the noble class was willing to pay for it increasing.

[@samiamrg7]

And even if somehow the feudal lords were a command economy and took each and every scrap of excess produced by their serfs, what does she think the lords did with all that food and goods? They sold them in order to fund their army and lifestyle! Where did they sell them? To markets! Markets which had a higher demand for certain foods, certain products like wool or metal or lumber depending on what they needed!

[@lil_weasel219]

she very versed in economics guys /s

[@DrippyWaffler]

Literally debunked herself 6 minutes in

[@Yuhyuhmuhmuh]

Wow! How did I miss that gapping whole of an argument

[@InternetLaser]

I think you really misunderstood She said, I think pretty clearly, that when the black death occured, this was an example where markets were finally allowed to occur, and the difference between peasant incomes before and after is the result of a transition from non market labor conditions to labor conditions under a market.

[@rainbowkrampus]

"But what about stocks?" (a seemingly infinite amount of time later) "I have forty thousand dollars in stocks." (yet another infinity later) "I have no liquid assets." Me: "Ah, a no lifer gambling addict."

[@Nyanx4]

Yeah, basically. I can imagine why she defines "wealth" as "the things that you have and need to live" considering she puts all her money into what basically amounts to a casino...

[@rainbowkrampus]

@@Nyanx4 I mean, I know people like her. She'll be able to retire at 40. But also like, retire to what? For what? And what happens when another 2008 happens? Because it definitely will. It's sad man.

[@DevynCairns]

​@@rainbowkrampusretire at 40 on that level of stock investment? I think that's pretty unlikely. If she ends up making more money and can invest a lot more then maybe.

[@rainbowkrampus]

@@DevynCairns Yes, I'm making some assumptions here about her continued gambling success and her seeming total lack of expenses.

[@1123elemental]

@@rainbowkrampus you'd have to invest extremely smart to get those kind of returns in the actual stockmarket after 15ish years. You're better off with an ETF or index fund to manage your money unless you're REALLY on the ball. Which I doubt this woman is.

[@Nyanx4]

Honestly, when the guest was completely incredulous at the idea most people keep their money in banks, only to reveal later that she keeps all her income in stocks is the moment I realized she was completely out of touch with reality. I guess that's why she feels she can just dismiss legitimate issues that people are facing with _"Well, I disagree."_ Wish I could just disagree with my problems and they'd vanish. Would make life a hell of a lot easier.

[@rockfire1669]

In the most basic sense, all stock brokers take at LEAST 2 days to transfer your money(one day to change from stock to cash, and one day to go from the stock broker to your bank account). Unless she is doing some funky sh*t for 2 days, she lying.

[@Nyanx4]

@@rockfire1669 Careful there, you've made a good point. She might _disagree_ with that and suddenly the way stock brokers typically handle transfers will vanish.

[@Kloutkulture]

@@rockfire1669not only that but stock fluctuate 1-5% a day. In a week she could literally lose half her capital if not properly diversified. I find it hard to believe she really does that.

[@Nyanx4]

@@Kloutkulture She's either lying or stupid. Personally, I lean towards the former, because I cannot imagine playing this hard of a defense for a company that we've known for a long time runs sweat shops for their cheap goods and drains the resources of the local communities that they set up in. Edit: Or maybe it's both. Could be both.

[@Kloutkulture]

@@Nyanx4 can’t afford rent? Just move. 🤣😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@haloeightYT]

This debate went on about an hour and a half longer than it deserved

[@Liquid_Smoke]

TRUUUUUUUU

[@sunnohh]

I am 2 minutes in and I want it over

[@Tacom4ster]

Nah I like when Vaush dunks easy targets

[@StrayChoom]

She seemed nice though

[@know_no_th3ory128]

@@Tacom4ster Nah... I watch Vaush for the debates too but I was begging this one to end lol. The libertarian debate afterwards was far more entertaining.

[@MatthewFutrell]

Never in my wildest dreams would I imagine a person who unabashedly declares that the coconut island example isn't coercion would be a woman.

[@donjuan9746]

It's always who you least expect.

[@user-gh1vc9kb4e]

Well, she's right about that.

[@Sqwivig]

​@@user-gh1vc9kb4e She is objectively incorrect.

[@user-gh1vc9kb4e]

@@Sqwivig Coercion implies force. There's no force in voosh's coconut claptrap.

[@Sqwivig]

@@user-gh1vc9kb4e The force is that the other person starves to death. The fuck are you talking about?

[@hasan7275]

my jaw dropped when she called it consensual

[@cctomcat321]

This is someone who's only seen the sun in pictures. I swear you can _accidentally_ find more world experience just by going outside for two days.

[@Chris-Smith]

pearlythings fan

[@jocslzr1]

Is she just dishonest? I can’t believe what she considers consent.

[@mika161ultrainstinct]

What they consider consent is basically an unusable concept. It's consent, but not in the sense of morality, fairness, or coercion, so it's kind of just when anyone does something, no matter the reason why lol

[@HarshithPranesh]

​@@mika161ultrainstinctlike any conscious action?

[@mika161ultrainstinct]

@HarshithPranesh yes, according to this conservation even if you were being robbed, since you chose to hand over your watch then it wasn't nonconsensual for example.

[@maxwessel7786]

@@mika161ultrainstinctwhether they consider it consensual depends on the class and physical detachment of the person demanding your watch. Poor person with a knife? Not consensual. Owner of the area demanding watch as tribute for safe passage with armed guards? Consensual as long as it’s dressed up a little.

[@FelisImpurrator]

It's not unusual from someone who has been quite literally insulated from negative externalities their entire life and subjected to focused neoliberal brainwashing for a literal quarter of a century.

[@outercat]

ah yes the secret third option of being self employed. she's right, we should be self employed -- we should own the means of production.

[@krimson4257]

Why own the means of production when we can create our own means of production?

[@Inkerflargin]

Yeah, the workers (including self-employed individuals) should own their means of production, not the State as Vaush advocates for

[@lil_weasel219]

@@krimson4257you still own them

[@blackmage1276]

​@@InkerflarginI don't think vaush has ever advocated for that, actually he recognizes that as state capitalism and advocates for social control

[@desmondtheneworder918]

@@Inkerflargin What're you talking about from what I know Vaush advocates worker co-ops not state control unless you mean of essential industries like healthcare?

[@Nyanx4]

I do wonder if, when she requires any aid at any point in the future- a medical emergency she has to sell her fridge or phone to afford, or someone coercing her into a nasty situation she feels her life will be worse off if she doesn't accept if she'll still just consider this stuff "unfair." I think it'll pretty quickly turn into _"Oh, these are REAL problems now because I've faced them."_ I'm sensing a lack of empathy here. If you can't engage with the idea that people who are not you are suffering without quickly shooing away the topic, imagine how she treats people IRL who are suffering. Wonder if she skedaddles away just as fast.

[@camerabox1]

no see she understands that its unfair but doesn't think being put in an unfair situation is coercion

[@Alic4444]

@@camerabox1 Being put in an unfair situation in which starvation is option B, in world entirely shaped by other humans, some of whom benefit directly and indirectly from that unfairness. I wonder if we need a new word libertarians can admit to the English language, coercion is obviously a trigger for them these days.

[@0smundSaddler]

I think the fundamental problem is she doesn't think the unfairness itself is problematic, that extreme unfairness is just acceptable and everyone should tolerate it.

[@IRGeamer]

This is what raw intellect becomes without imagination or empathy...

[@FelisImpurrator]

​@@IRGeamerNo it isn't. This isn't a lack of empathy. It's a lack of critical thinking. Why do people constantly repeat this narrative that "empathy" this, "empathy" that is always the cause of bad behavior or harmful views? What's the obsession with framing all social ills as people just not feeling things the right way? This is lack of theory of mind, not empathy. She clearly has the capacity to feel bad for poor people. It's just that she doesn't cognitively process the idea of circumstances different from her own, because she's literally never had to think about those things before in her life. It's not about thinking too much and feeling too little. Can people knock it off with the anti-intellectual, ableist narrative here?

[@BladeMasterGrom13]

I think the problem Vaush had with the coconut argument was that the analogy approach was too advanced for his opponent. He should have just said, “Is doing X or dying a voluntary act?”

[@krimson4257]

The sad part is he said that and she still said it was ok

[@miskatonic_alumni]

​@@krimson4257Rightwing libertarians possess as much empathy as angler fish. Maybe less.

[@marcmacaluso2795]

😮‍💨 All analogies fall apart after you accout for different variables-- Like •What if Person X likes giving head anyway. •Or What if Person X Knows which plants are edible & sustainable.... But he Likes giving head anyway •Or What if person Y is so attractive that person X was going to try and seduce him anyway? Either way *_Variables Kills Metaphors_*

[@marshallsweatherhiking1820]

Right-libertarians surmise that the only true form of coercion is “force”. It seems pretty concrete on the surface but is philosophically vacuous IMO.

[@marshallsweatherhiking1820]

@@krimson4257Well, she said it was morally wrong, but fails to notice that the analogy is closer to how capitalism operates in practice than she will ever acknowledge, especially when you look at imperialism. Capitalism is inconsistent in that what is morally wrong in a small group situation is suddenly okay at a larger scale. The simplistic claim that humans are inherently selfish fails because we are actually altruistic by nature in small groups, even with strangers. Human selfishness really boils down to the “out of sight, out of mind” principle. Its really the trolly problem. People accept unfairness and harm if there is physical separation between the one who benefits and the one who is harmed. Anonymity and lack of comprehension of scale effects plays a role too.

[@geheimnisvollerundbelanglo9396]

this girl is like the personification of neoliberalism

[@lil_weasel219]

more so, not even neoliberalism thinks most people dont keep money in banks

[@SteveDawgNZ]

Idk, I'm very neoliberal but she was spouting a ton of points that seemed to just misunderstand basic economics

[@Alexadria205]

You mean neoconservatism, specifically in the modern meanings.

[@jfryk]

But why do you hate the global poor 😂

[@xx_isabel_the_wolf_xx3869]

More like Ayn Rand

[@mckenzie.latham91]

There is no way she's living on her own in Chicago on $23/hr And also has been able to invest $40k in the stock market $40k she made soley from her job There is no way I buy any level of that argument This literally feels like the middle class white girl who got mumny and.daddy to pay for her schooling then the first few years of her living expenses No way she is making rent, municpal, federal, state taxes, basic utilities and food on top of Gas costs, Inflation, While being able to divert massive portions of income to stock investment There is a literal gap here.

[@InternetLaser]

Have you heard of this thing called the train?

[@mckenzie.latham91]

@@InternetLaser Public transportation in the US is a pigs breakfast of embarrassment, so I doubt that saves much And that doesn't disqualify any of the other factors.i mentioned so.

[@InternetLaser]

​@@mckenzie.latham91Chicago isn't the US. Chicago has good transit. I live in Lincoln square, my rent is $1100, I take the brown line, transfer to red at Belmont, and transfer to the blue line through the piss tunnel to get to work. 47k is above the median income in Chicago by a large margin, if you think it's impossible for somebody to live here on that income, then you just have no grasp of the living experience of the average Chicagoan. You're out of touch, not her.

[@Eryna_]

​@@InternetLaser> America >Train God I fucking wish

[@jequirity1]

She is in Chicago, which does have pretty good trains. Even taking that into account, that doesn't account for the cost of, you know, her being able to afford to live in Chicago.

[@lobsterking4837]

“Nobody stores their money in the form of money in the bank” , ah yes truly a good take which shows you are in touch with reality and not an ideologue at all

[@akee3312]

I’m terrified to know what this person’s personal finances look like

[@comyuse9103]

@@akee3312 zero expenses until her parents die, then starvation on the streets if we are lucky.

[@briannaodonnell2572]

1000%@@comyuse9103

[@flamemasterelan]

@@comyuse9103 I'm not sure why you said "if we're lucky." Like, I don't want this girl to starve in the streets. I want her to realize the error of her ways and join the cause. She's not evil, she's just rather stupid.

[@tsharabrown3719]

Yeah, I'd love to have the extra to research and buy stocks, but I have less than 1k to my name right now. A single emergency can throw that out.

[@Invisibleguy-kn7bd]

"The average American stores their money in the value of the house they own" is one of the wildest out of touch takes I've heard in a while

[@TheTinyTimmyTimTim]

And even if it was true, even if we accept that this is a voluntary thing people are doing TODAY in the absurd housing market (it isn't), it doesn't mean anything. A house is not a safe full of cash. You're "value" is inaccessible because its a mortgage, and you cannot get your equity without putting a lien on your house which is functionally giving the bank a deed a to it. It's a last resort and most people consider their lives in a DISASTER state if they're contemplating doing it. The only other option is to sell your house, take the time and pay a real estate agent to find another house that's cheaper, and move in which takes month and does nothing but make that inaccessible value you had available in 10 years instead of 20 years, which falls apart if you cant move because of your job anyway. She clearly has no idea what it's like to be a normal, average person in the american economy. She has never interfaced with any of it. She's purely theory crafting starting with an OP build and never having actually played the game and thinks she knows the fastest xp rates lmao.

[@floepiejane]

Tells you who she thinks the average American is, and who she utterly ignores. She's a spoiled brat.

[@hanzohasashi4534]

Jeff Bezos and a homeless guy have an average wealth of 50 Billion... clearly homelessness isn't a problem.

[@GrimK77]

next to bezos, millionaires are pretty much the same as homeless

[@DrippyWaffler]

Tbf she did say median, not average, which just picks the middle person and looks at what they have. Still way outta touch though

[@ericfurman5227]

I have an MBA in econ and I gotta say, Vaush fucking nailed it. He legit knows his micro- and macroeconomics. Big W

[@InternetLaser]

Literally the opposite of true

[@jackiealexander92530]

@@InternetLaserwe know you are

[@Kidomaru222]

@@jackiealexander92530 But what are you ?

[@darkstar4494]

@@InternetLaserbe specific. What is your criticism?

[@Alex-0597]

​@@darkstar4494Their criticism seems to be searching for random comments under this video to say that Vaush Bad. Which as we all know is true, Vaush indeed Bad, but they never seem to articulate an actual reason why

[@dillpickle7583]

She sounds like an econ grad that has been taught capitalism is an inherently perfect system 7:48

[@FelisImpurrator]

Yup. People underestimate how bad the brainwashing gets, and they're doing the exact same thing she's doing when they just... Don't even try to think of how anyone can end up here, and don't even consider that there is a gigantic system of propaganda that has been built specifically to push people into these brain traps.

[@GantaaOhime]

She is actually making the "They can eat cake" argument honestly

[@Paint_The_Future]

Coconut Island starts at 9:57

[@CaH6633]

Thank you

[@spaghettayyyyyy]

You’ve done god’s work,,, i didn’t want to watch this one,, just in the first 3 minutes she is so dumb

[@cctomcat321]

It deserves the build-up so that moronic take really "oomfs."

[@kristianwilliamson6527]

Dude even Karl Marx argued that Capitalisn was superior to Feudalism, why did she spend so much time longing for one of the worst economic systems we've had?

[@MAJORp121]

Capitalists have demonized Marx so badly that his name is said with hushed tones. THESE PEOPLE DON'T READ HIS WORKS. And if they say they do, I call bullshit. People literally think he's demonic or evil in some way. They have read Marx the same way they read their Bible, through cherry picked passages that are regurgitated by some "authority" on the matter.

[@miskatonic_alumni]

Because all rightwing libertarians are freedom-hating reactionaries that long for the return of feudalism and serfdom.

[@pseudonymous7557]

Wasn't that his analysis, that capitalism was an advancement but we could do better?

[@vicarious4231]

Vaush: you do realize not everyone can be self employed, they have bills, they have mouths to feed. Capitalist lady: ok, and?

[@theevilonewholaughs]

I don't think this lady has spoken to another person ever, just grown in lab

[@jupitersky]

She needs to touch some damned grass lol

[@TSmith-yy3cc]

I suspect an all expenses-paid daddy condo instead of a lab.

[@Kloutkulture]

Accurate 😂

[@doc7000]

She has done a lot of conflating in this talk, she conflated GDP per capita with personal incomes.... in the US the median income was in 2019 $31,000. This 100% reminds me of the study question that asked the college students from wealthy parents believed the average American made $500,000 a year in income. also when South Korea and other Asian markets opened themselves up the result of this was economic devastation which led to a period of time known as the Asian crisis. She has 100% built up her ideas purely based on economic models completely divorced from reality.

[@doopydoops2064]

that, and she was reading the median household net worth as individual median net worth

[@doc7000]

@@doopydoops2064 I think Vaush gave her too much credit, if she took all of her money that she made and put it into stocks and she only has $45,000 in stock by the age of 25 that isn't that much. I question if that was the entire story that she lives on her own making currently $23 an hour at Amazon while living in the Chicago area it sounds like she had some kind of benefit that she isn't bringing up. Chicago is a major city and like universally in America all major cities currently have expensive rents. I question if the cheaper parts of Chicago is somewhere that she would want to live though I could be wrong there, though in this case she would have to live there in order to afford to live on Chicago on $23 an hour. She isn't living in Northern Chicago on $23 an hour income on her own as rents there can get into the $70,000 a month range. As $23 an hour is $3,680 a month gross, also if she does live in a cheap area of Chicago where she can rent a studio for like $600 a month she isn't taking into account that not everyone lives in the cheap part of Chicago. Also Amazon doesn't pay the same rates everywhere in the country, she is making the silly mistake of "if I can do it then anyone can" without considering the different situations that exist in different parts of the country as well as the different situation that different people find themselves in.

[@Spyno41]

I gotta give Vaush credit for his patience. There's nothing i hate more than someone disagreeing with me and they show me they absolutely have no idea what they're talking about with confidence.

[@marcmacaluso2795]

Could it be that Vaush is wrong?

[@materialdialectics]

Holy fuck yes that shit makes my blood boil. "The sky is blue" "Well, I disagree"

[@Spyno41]

@@marcmacaluso2795 Bait used to be believable.

[@mugsmcratmin6842]

​@marcmacaluso2795 my guy, she literally conflated net worth with spendable money, vaush was not the wrong one in this convo

[@marcmacaluso2795]

@@mugsmcratmin6842 Correct me if I'm wrong but •Vaush conceded that Supply & Demand goes further under Capitalism than feudalism •Vaush conceded that "Coercive Consent" is still consent. Does Vaush even have a leg to stand on anymore?

[@BreadBreadson-pn4fw]

The "You can just be self-employed" is the island equivalent of jumping into the water and hoping that the waves will maybe take you to a new island with hopefully enough coconuts to support you

[@shis1988]

PDF files - er, libertarians. Libertarians is what I meant, still struggling with Coconut Island is a beautiful sight.

[@Fatman221]

Vaush kept asking this person how much they actually interacted with reality and honestly, most important question to be asking. They either come from a wealthy family and have never experience hardship in any form, or are not a real person.

[@Fatman221]

Holy hell. $40k in stocks, at $23 an hour, over 7 years. She makes slightly more than me, in a far FAR more expensive area. Something here isn't adding up. In order for that to be the case she either lives a completely subsistence lifestyle or she is lying and got that money from somewhere else.

[@callummacalister]

Last night's doubleheader was just painful all round. Vaush facing two completeley head-empty debate "opponents" mouthing the same hollow rhetoric from their respective positions that we've all come to know and loathe.

[@0smundSaddler]

The AMERICA BAD guy was just a grifter, or perhaps an elderly dipshit given how he still has Reagan era RUSSIA HAS NUKES! THE WORLD WILL END! paranoia that nobody under the age of fucking 48 experiences anymore. This woman was genuinely deranged and evil though.

[@trustyvault13canteen32]

Just like old times

[@eXcommunicate1979]

At least these idiots have beliefs, unlike Michael... Michael... Michael... Michael... Michael... Michael... Michael... Michael... Michael...

[@vrdynasty3896]

This was the same night?? Holy shit, I've been pacing myself with the 2 debates since they released... Props to Vaush and fellow Vaushites for not wanting to end it all on the spot after these 2.

[@callummacalister]

@@vrdynasty3896 - It was a close-run thing... very close...

[@SS-xr7jf]

I don’t even necessarily agree with Vaush on economics. But the fact that she couldn’t see the coercion in the coconut island thing is disturbing. Also, friendly reminder that the median net worth for the under 35 crowd is 14000 ❤

[@sciencemanguy]

Including or not including people under 18? Because including them may lead to a false conclusion on how well new grads / young workers are doing.

[@SS-xr7jf]

@@sciencemanguy I doubt it would include much of the under 18. I imagine the data would have to stem from, like, taxes or something, though I’m not entirely sure. And many teenagers don’t even bother filing those. I suspect it has more to due with the just how common of a burden student loans are and how inaccessible owning a house has become.

[@JamesBender-benderthegreat1]

Never heard anyone double down on the coconut analogy before today lol

[@canadagoose8543]

She eats bullets for breakfast.

[@FelisImpurrator]

...Maybe she just thinks sucking strangers' dicks is a totally ordinary thing to do? I mean, understandable.

[@mugsmcratmin6842]

​@@canadagoose8543without any milk

[@WhatAMagician]

I don't know anything about politics except coconut island and I've unironically beat 100 capitalists in debate.

[@BlueberryBlanket]

Oh you know it's gonna be one of THOSE debates when she literally starts with ad hominem "I'm a WOMAN and YOU don't talk to THOSE." Insufferable.

[@Liquid_Smoke]

Possible Vausheit moment tbf! Although she obviously isn't one.

[@uninstaller2860]

I thought it was a pretty funny rebuttal to being called a 12 year old girl

[@thebeavpercabethftw9604]

​@@uninstaller2860But he said that after she said he doesn't talk to women. He was the one with the rebuttal, not her.

[@OsefKincaid]

@@thebeavpercabethftw9604 Don't you think she could tell where he was going?

[@OneEyeShadow]

@@OsefKincaid She could be a fortune teller, that is a real thing people can be.

[@nio804]

For some reason I get the feeling that she wasn't lying. She might just genuinely have some brain worms that somehow lead her to believe what she's saying.

[@FelisImpurrator]

That's because she does. This is what happens when all the neoliberal brainwashing narrative just... Sticks. Ideal victim of capitalist realism. Probably neurodivergent and outright completely insulated from any opportunity to develop perspective.

[@bibsp3556]

I think so too. I think she's looking at trees, but missing the woods.

[@comyuse9103]

as vaush said once, she didn't sound like she was smiling. not unless she was doing it the entire time, but not even most trolls are that up their own ass.

[@Policyparagon]

I think she is just wealthy and will never experience real world problems. She literally does not exist in the reality of the 99%.

[@flamemasterelan]

@@comyuse9103 Honestly, based on how much she stumbled over her words, I get the feeling Vaush hit things right on the head with his analysis. She doesn't really have a social life, and invested all of the money she earned from her job into stocks so that she feels "safe" for later in her life. And now she thinks everyone else should have made the same "smart choices" she did, even though it kinda just left her more detached and lonely. I have a friend who did similarly with his life. Every time I ask him what he's done in the last week, two weeks, month, six months, his answer's always the same. He wakes up at 5 for work, comes home around 7, eats dinner, goes to sleep by 9 and starts the entire cycle over. He's salary, so they don't need to pay him overtime, and his weekly prep is always done on Sundays. Yet instead of realizing that capitalism is destroying everything, he just accepts the status quo. He's saved up a good amount for retirement, too.

[@malice824]

I really can’t tell if she’s a troll Her: “I agree people need to be happy in a functioning society” Her: “If you can’t afford rent, sell all your stuff” Her: “If you’re struggling, just open a business” THATS NOT HOW LIFE WORKS!WHAT?!!

[@Greyinkling276]

it's just basic doublethink.

[@vertigo4236]

@@Greyinkling276 More like nonthink

[@GoblinoAlaMode]

I have a friend who is selling all of their possessions just to make rent/move on top of working two jobs and selling their plasma. This lady misses that you can only sell their items ONCE and the bills aren’t a once and done thing. Eventually you run out of blood, items, credit… This lady is psychopathic and a monster. She hates the poor and has ZERO clue about what it’s like to know to be poor. I’ve only ever made under 30k a year so all her individual solutions would have not help at all.

[@Summer_Tea]

Right, lol. And it's not even like you're making money. You are literally just selling things you bought in the past. You're losing money if anything.

[@yovador]

Wait you can fucking sell you blood in the US ???

[@InternetLaser]

​@@yovadoryes, because countries where you can't sell blood have a large amount of unmet demand. It's likely that your country imports American blood to keep your healthcare system running.

[@mysticonthehill]

I have seen this as a former landlord and it is heart breaking. Once a person cannot make ends meet it is just a downward spiral unless someone intervenes or some very unlikely good fortune immediately happens. People need to get out of their ivory towers to see how the rest of us live rather then construct theoretical models of the mind to ease their conscience.

[@varanaut1308]

Skill issue

[@Romanticoutlaw]

it always makes me a little sad and worried when I hear a woman who clearly thinks that coerced consent is actually consent... honey, you really don't gotta do whatever your man wants you to just because you eventually caved and agreed to...

[@marcmacaluso2795]

This is why Metaphors are not scientific.

[@AnonJuggerbot]

The other problem, of course, with 'just sell your stuff' is that eventually you run out of stuff to sell but not out of bills to pay.

[@azurepop1848]

If you ignore the speaker, you can get a decent econ 101 lesson because holy crap Vaush had to explain B A S I C economic principles, net worth to the speaker.

[@InternetLaser]

and he was wrong on just about all of them, except where he agreed with her.

[@WraithWriter]

​@@InternetLaserI won't DOX you but I will FIND YOU

[@ThingsAreGettingTooSpicy]

Yeah but Vaush also didn't seem to know the econ definition of equilibrium point so I'd say it's a tie.

[@TSmith-yy3cc]

@@WraithWriter Best reply to a bad reply guy haha.

[@briannaodonnell2572]

@@InternetLaser Go outside chairoid.

[@what3778]

I actually couldn't tell if she was lying about the 40k wrapped up in stocks or if she was "daddy's money" or not, like its impossible to read

[@rainbowkrampus]

It's possible she made some lucky trades here and there and was able to drastically multiply her initial investment. It is gambling after all. There are some winners some of the time. Wild that she thinks that her luck in this regard can be generalized into some kind of principle. That or she's been living in a box at an Amazon warehouse and has no expenses because she lives off of "lost" items.

[@justin-md4xm]

Could have been lucky with tesla in 2020 or something

[@justin-md4xm]

Like really, sleeping in her car or something and eating garbage??? Rent in Chicago is a lot

[@mishatestras5375]

​@@rainbowkrampuspeople like this always think everyone can do that. Some lucky gamblers do too. 😢

[@what3778]

@@rainbowkrampus that's very true, the thing is even with gambling these basic principles, strategy, and game theory are involved. and with capital that has its own principles, I genuinely don't think she can understand those, based on this conversation lol. It is probably true, but damn that baffles me.

[@savvysmiles1121]

The Walmart effect is so mainstream that I'm pretty sure there's a south park episode structured around the concept... And the creators of South Park have openly admitted to taking a centrist approach to the political themes they include in their show. My own hyper conservative family taught me the Walmart effect in the form of a specific example of a former family business in a small town that was run out of business by the introduction of a Walmart to that town. Everything Vaush said about Walmart is so far from contentious, I'm honestly shocked that this person wanted to die on that hill.

[@bibsp3556]

The fact that you can say "the Walmart effect" and people know what you mean is proof enough

[@sandollor]

Maybe she's young and didn't experience Walmart's destruction of towns over the last 30 years.

[@Molly-jh4kz]

"You can acquire capital." "And you can acquire coconuts." Single best quote of this year so far.

[@curtbressler3127]

Her definition of consent could be summed up as: "The slave master agrees to not kill the slave as long as they work really really really hard and not try to escape!" "The slave is consenting to this agreement with the slave master."

[@JeanAlexander-dg6kh]

All southern conservatives unironically believe this about the Antebellum chattel system

[@inurokuwarz]

You have 20,000 dollars in your meat pockets. Just sell your kidney like Pathologic.

[@fari9422]

best comment

[@MOTHHMAN]

pathologic reference spotted

[@henriquepacheco7473]

Pretty sure you sell other people's kidneys in Pathologic. Which, honestly, is a much longer-lasting business venture.

[@HollowSun]

Omg, 5 minutes in, this woman is the definition of unearned confidence. She came at Vaush right out of the gate trying to style on him with sweet nunchuck moves, and immediately broke her wrists

[@squidward5110]

Lol i saw the first 10 minutes of this and then did yard work for about 2 hours and caught the last 5 minutes and it was like a coherent 15 minute debate where i didnt feel like i missed anything

[@Dragonite43]

That's how it is for almost all debates.

[@joshtrue6521]

This one was hard live, gave me flashbacks to the Mel debate

[@stevendorries]

Head-desk levels of exasperation

[@JARV9701]

Mel was more unhinged, while this lady was utterly dense.

[@uninstaller2860]

Mel? How?

[@InternetLaser]

Vaushite who's only ever seen one woman before: "This is giving me real mel vibes"

[@catrielmarignaclionti4518]

@@InternetLaser i mean mel was insane though, and like i got the same treatment, like, I joined the stream halfway in this debate and, like I though vaush was being angry and mad and what not, then when i watched this I felt like i was one of those people that told waush that he was hard on mel

[@niclas9990]

Debates like this just make it all the more obvious that the distinction between right and left boils down to whether you've got a shred of compassion for people who've had it rough.

[@floepiejane]

Totally

[@Sqwivig]

So true bestie.

[@chibiraptor]

"Supply and demand didnt exist in feudalism. One time there was a supply shock that changed equilibrium price! Explain that." In the post debate discussion, vaush said this girl was intelligent, which i vehemently disagree with. She isnt capable of basic critical thinking.

[@DrippyWaffler]

Yeah literally 6 minutes in she tore apart her own argument. Completely brainless. How do you say that shit out loud and not realise you've made your opponent's point for them?

[@GoblinoAlaMode]

2/3 of the population just got killed off in a plague and now the survivors have a higher wage and more bargaining power, wonder why…it’s like as if you can’t employ and pay dead people if the living people aren’t willing to work for shit wages or conditions…hmmmmmm idk i was an English major in college lmao

[@trianglemoebius]

She's intelligent, but not smart. She knows all the facts, to the point where she can apparently name plenty of relevant events and their dates off the top of her head, and can even cite various theories... but does not have the ability to put any of it together in any meaningful way. She has two two's, but cannot get four.

[@Bnio]

Funnily, this is where the term "trivial" and "trivia" came from. Medieval European universities had the basic "trivium" three studies of rhetoric, logic and grammar. Which started out alright, but over the years it became rote learning and the 13th century equivalent of, "Don't think about it, just pass the test." That's Economics 101 in America now.

[@bibsp3556]

It didn't make sense. "Supply and demand existed always since trade" And then she said sometimes they artificially effect supply? And? That's proof of it, the aristocracy ensured their supplies but then trade continues with the supplies left over, and people rightfully overthrough the aristocracy. Same with diamonds today, it's them manipulating the concept.

[@DeavTech]

She is right, the coconut Island situation is unfair, so unfair in fact, the law has determined it to be illegal...

[@coletrickle1775]

Lol. I like your wit.

[@avalus6]

She never once refutes that she has help from rich parents. She was so keen on refuting every other claim about her personally, but for that one, she never had any comment. Interesting.

[@joseph.higgins]

They believe that some one who earns an average of $40,000 a year would be marginally glad if they earned an extra $10,000 that year? Completely divorced from reality.

[@InternetLaser]

Define marginal. I dare you

[@thewrongsorcerer]

@@InternetLaser Define dare. I marginal you

[@joseph.higgins]

@InternetLaser Ask her? She is the one who believes that.

[@joseph.higgins]

Just to be clear. In good faith. I'm referring to what she says starting at 18:30

[@nickziegler1904]

Wait am i missing a point here with that black death example? What she described was textbook supply and demand. The supply of labor dwindeled cause they all died but demand was still there so the market equalized. She presented it like it was an example of the market being unequally apportioned in the first place? Right?

[@DrippyWaffler]

You're not missing anything she's restarted

[@jilliansmaniotto2326]

nope - you’re not missing anything. she’s really that dumb. she debunked herself like 5 minutes in - truly impressive tbh.

[@CH4R10T_TV]

I heard her say she thought a direct and obvious case of coercive sexual relations was consensual, looked at the two hours remaining in the call and dipped. Normally I try to watch videos all the way but I'm gonna set this one down and leave a comment for the algorithm gods to compensate. Good lord that was nasty. Kudos to Vaush for keeping his cool.

[@jaredgreathouse3672]

It's like if you fed Ayn Rand to a machine learning bot, but you've trained it to be DUMBER than Ayn Rand

[@Perri-Winkle]

Honestly, good call.

[@AmateurContendr]

The crazy part is that even when Vaush congradulates her on being "smart" with her economic decisions, that 40k in stocks she's so proud of wouldn't even be garunteed to cover medical bill in an emergency. People like this think they're so clever, but one bad day can literally put you in life ruining amounts of debt, even if you think you're good with money.

[@joshllorens4514]

Pretty cool Voosh got a real life demon on stream. Gonna pass on selling my couch in order to not die tho

[@youdoyouidome7452]

It's only been 37 minutes. God give me strength to watch your bearded warrior hamfist basic economics into this person

[@Greyinkling276]

No one with any privilege in America wants to believe for a second they are privileged at all and would rather imagine they are the norm and everyone below them is a rare exception. "I worked a job just this last year" is painful to hear when you have, without a choice, had to be continuously employed since the age of 18 or younger. When a month without work means either more unpayable debt weighing you down or losing your home and everything you've built for yourself. When you can sit comfortably in your mid 20s and tell other people they could just choose to do something else and you don't believe they don't have money in the bank, that speaks to a lot of really obnoxious out of touch privilege.

[@lucehleblanc]

saying that you should sell ur furniture to be able to survive is nuts, when drug addicts do that, we call it a problem. but ig not the case if you're STARVING

[@ZPPrograms]

Even my grandfather, who voted GOP all his life, knew in 2016 that Walmart was draining resources from the communities they build their stores in. He even suggested breaking them up so that they are no longer a monopoly. Probably the most left leaning thing I ever heard him say. If he could understand this, she should be able to understand it too.

[@disneypunk10]

at 24:26 I started screaming. Both my wife and I are collage educated and have struggled to survive due to the debt we are in just paying for the education. We couldn't have a credit card for years so we could catch up. And we're a common story. This person doesn't live in reality.

[@varanaut1308]

College doesn't mean you deserve to be paid a ton of money

[@disneypunk10]

@@varanaut1308 Please point to the sentence I said I expected to get paid a ton of money because I have collage education. For my education and experience in my field, I expect a JOB, which correct me if I’m wrong, is the point of getting collage educated!

[@whooll]

Ok I was gonna feel bad about saying this but since she doesn't actually believe that my wife and I, our friends, coworkers, and most of our relatives don't actually have to survive without the ability to keep an emergency fund are real, then I am actually fine with admitting that many of the times she said "money" it kept sounding like the Canadian prime Minister on South Park. Hmph.

[@jesseorellana5339]

The moment she said "Americans don't store their money in the bank." That was the moment I was like, "This woman is too brain broken to take seriously on anything." I don't even need to tell anyone how many people I've met who keep their money in the bank. Nearly every job ("nearly" because I was around during the days of analog) I've worked for won't hire me unless I have a bank account for direct deposit.

[@bibsp3556]

She probably just means that the bank ties a lot of its money up in stocks, but everytime they do that too much, it leads to a bank run when it goes tits-up, so I dunno how it's meant to be good.

[@desmondtheneworder918]

@@bibsp3556 That's an incredibly generous interpretation

[@bibsp3556]

@@desmondtheneworder918 It may well be. But she's still wrong. Most people's money is just in the bank as far as I know.

[@InternetLaser]

The average Americans biggest asset is their house, not their bank account. She's literally correct

[@desmondtheneworder918]

@@InternetLaser No she's ret@rded cause that's not liquid wealth which is what people mean when "Most Americans cant afford a $500 emergency" is said.

[@riesenfliegefly7139]

When you just finished the last debate and wanted to watch another and then this drops timely as a Ukrainian kamikaze drone

[@Fuzztooth]

Truuuuuuuue

[@brennanlable]

"You've never worked a job in your life!" "Yeah I did!" "when?" "....This year" Lmfao

[@comyuse9103]

and you know it was a lie when she tried to extend it back to 2017.

[@grandsome1]

I think the coconut island analogy just played into her kink or some shit because there's no way someone can look at that situation and be okay with it.

[@MewLaura111]

I'm pretty sure she's into Vaush and this entire debate is just her getting off to him

[@elianwyn]

I mean, it plays into my kinks but I'd still call coconut island guy a huge douche after the fact. Being horny doesn't overwrite your morals and beliefs, otherwise the Republican party would be full of bottoms

[@ComradeChyrk]

Sounds like someone's not gonna earn any coconuts

[@adrianalicea6704]

Don't make it weird

[@leviathanops4524]

Drops my jaw that capitalists don't recognize that profit affects supply/demand equilibrium. If I don't need to take a cut off everything I sell, if I sell it for its exact cost including my wage and the wage required to produce it, I can sell more cheaper and satisfy more consumers. Also, economic systems are not restricted to trade. Your day has an economy, you have 24 hours to spend, you'll spend more of them doing something you demand to do more of. If saving your life requires 10 hours of your day, you have to balance only having 14 to do other things with spending the whole 24 doing other things.

[@sunnohh]

Some capitalists are socialists, but yeah this lady has brain cancer by way of free market libertarianism

[@GrimK77]

What's "take a cut" means? You mean profit? What would be your wage, then?

[@samiamrg7]

@@GrimK77 No. Workers’ wages is a calculated cost of running the business. Anything beyond the cost of running/maintaining the business is profit. You can sell widgets for a lot cheaper if your plan to simply break even. In order to make a profit, uou would have to increase the price of widgets, which might mean pricing some customers out, but enough will still be bought to have a tidy profit. This is ultimately less efficient, though, since it means less demand is satisfied because fewer widgets were sold despite being needed. Imagine if the widgets were an important machine part or critical life need like housing. Selling fewer of them in the name of profit instead of maximizing selling them could mean fewer factories are built or more people go homeless.

[@samiamrg7]

@@GrimK77 Housing is a great example of this. Instead of prioritizing filling vacant space and housing the most people they can, realtors and landlords lately have been trying to maximize profit by only building/offering high-end, expensive housing that most people can’t afford. They don’t care that a lot of their lots are vacant because they only need to fill a few of them in order to profit. They could easily allow more people to live in their places for a lower price, but the total amount earned would be less. So instead, they price people out of the housing market and people go homeless despite there being vacant housing. All in the name of profit over maximizing the use of products.

[@GrimK77]

@@samiamrg7 that's not how anything works in economy... Also, your thought experiments are not really about free market economy, but rather feudal monopoly. There is also assumption that demand is based on price... no, just no. Non profit model is useful for some public companies created to provide some public services, but its gonna be a venezuelan disaster if attempted at production. Also the worst offenders in corporationism aren't manufacturers, but trade monopolies.

[@Fuzztooth]

I just completed a 6-day road trip through the literal middle of America, and the Walmart effect is very real. You drive through state highways, and and as they go through the abandoned downtown, on the outskirts you see the Walmart with a parking lot that's relatively full. The destruction is observable. Folks need the low prices in order to live a quote American lifestyle quote that they think they deserve, but all that does is perpetuate Walmart's greed and ability to spread. It's a terrible cycle, and you can't fully blame the citizens of the town. This person is clueless.

[@AlmightyThagomizer]

I don’t think I’ve ever laughed harder at a Vaush video. This moon woman is absolutely fascinating to me. I don’t think she’s actually evil at all, I just think she is so optimization-brained and rational-pilled that she has disconnected from reality. She suffers from a terminal disconnect from the condition of the average American. Her shock that only 20% of Americans have 401k’s made me cackle.

[@jloiben12]

That worker coop conversation was painful and really demonstrated how out of her own depths she was

[@Ko_deez]

Just the absolute contempt this demon shows for the poor is beyond wild.

[@FelisImpurrator]

It isn't contempt. It's an inability to comprehend the concept because the life of a poor person is so unfathomably far beyond her deeply insulated life experiences it's incomprehensible. You'd be like this too if you grew up in what is the ideological and socioeconomic equivalent of a giant glass dome atop a tower your entire life. Or if you were asked to comprehend the life of, say, a farmer in rural China. You probably can't because you have literally zero frame of reference.

[@Puzzles-Pins]

Yeah she literally didn't believe people could be that poor without choosing to be. She straight up called Vaush a liar.

[@Sqwivig]

​@@FelisImpurratorThat's true, but it doesn't make her any less evil. She absolutely has contempt for the poor, even if it's only subconsciously.

[@FelisImpurrator]

@@Sqwivig I don't think she's provided any way for you to know that. Besides, what's the point of making that assumption? It doesn't sound like she represents any institutional power beyond just being individually privileged, so like... Who cares? What's the point of imagining some deeper motive like that, absent any particularly apparent evidence, just for the sake of something as meaningless and empty as individual moral judgment? You can just hate her for no reason. No need to "justify" it by imagining some moralistic pretext. It's fine to just not like people. In fact, I'd actively say it's better to simply express dislike of people for purely arbitrary reasons, because it's more honest than the whole artificial construct of "morally justifying" that dislike.

[@Sqwivig]

@@FelisImpurrator I don't like her because she is privileged and ignorant. There.

[@JBIsrael]

I really wish he’d dug down more on her personal finances. Obviously she’d probably lie about them, but I wouldn’t be surprised if her parents are paying her rent or her credit card bill each month.

[@henriquepacheco7473]

or helped her straight up buy a place meaning she doesn't have to pay rent

[@CynicalBastard]

I love it when people are like "Ok, so I'm just gonna keep going on my spiel", as if by not engaging in a response, they are being more "to the point". This is a debate, no? The point is to address every point, not to just be a half-assed politician. [...]

[@kammusik145]

Glizzy gobbling for coconuts is INSANE 😵‍💫😂😂😂

[@lizardman464]

Me: I can't afford this $2,000 medical bill Her: Have you considered selling all your furniture at a fraction of the price it cost you? Or your car that you need to commute? Have you considered selling your home?

[@jilliansmaniotto2326]

have you considered that in order to pay the bill for your kidney transplant surgery you could just sell your kidney? your net worth obvi includes those meat sacs attached to your bones. i’ve never been so irritated with a debate adversary as I was with this girl. I think I had a stroke at this point in the discussion.

[@adrijatripathi4700]

she had to have been lying about working six years in amazon whatever she said was absolutely incoherent

[@Patchveek]

Holy shit. One sentence she’s saying “people make trade offs all of the time,” while referring to people making sacrifices to their lives to make enough emergency money. Next thing she says is her questioning why she sounds contemptuous? Literally one statement ago was positively dripping with it. It’s like a viper just after the bite, fangs leaking with venom, saying “Oh why do you think I’m venomous?” Insane.

[@frogspresso937]

I go in & out of delusional episodes & I still have a better grasp of reality, consent & money than her 😭😭😭 Maybe I should just sell all of my possessions & get on whatever she's smoking

[@harrywompa]

This here is unironically someone that is too privileged to understand what the problem is. Her referencing the median wage as if that doesn't mean most people make way less than that, her idea that people don't keep money in banks, the idea that you can just coast through emergencies with credit... this is someone that has very wealthy parents that keep her afloat, for sure.

[@looks2880]

Yo, this chick is beyond entitled! She needs to bring down the privilege and chill with some humility!

[@seaufriclioapraif3319]

At around 26:05 When Vaush asks if net worth is equal to liquid cash the caller says "value is value." Holy shit I have sooooo many Beanie Babies to sell this person.

[@gabry2558]

about 20 min in and i have the feeling she's unaware that food costs money

[@kynixie]

Why can I argue right libertarian positions better than all right libertarians. I remember I was working with some right libertarians and realizing this. It's amazing anyone takes this shit seriously 😒

[@ihsahnakerfeldt9280]

Right wing libertarianism is fundamentally an ideology designed to gaslight people into keeping the most wealthy and powerful in their positions while helping to perpetuate the disenfranchisement of middle class and poor people.

[@TheCaptainblaubeere]

this was geniunely the most out of touch person ive ever heard on this stream . like even other neocons or conservatives seemed more in touch with reality than this lady

[@NoWay-kp9lp]

Didn’t realize I can choose my own quantity of work. Gonna run that by my boss to see how that goes

[@vrdynasty3896]

When the market clears... This phrase is like a bad omen. Actually reminds me of Vaush's debate with libertarian party candidate and I want to die 4:20

[@BOYVIRGO666]

Holy shit, i had to look up that book by Thomas Phillipon and it is entirely about how the consolidation of corporate power was the downfall of american economics. Basically the opposite of what she said. The book is also more broadly about why america is tied down to oligopolies not about how walmart is good actually.

[@InternetLaser]

I doubt you read the book.

[@BOYVIRGO666]

@@InternetLaser I didnt say i did. I said i looked it up. Its called a synopsis. Whats your point?

[@InternetLaser]

​@@BOYVIRGO666Chapter 2 of the book is literally called "Bad concentration, good concentration" and goes into how Walmart, despite being big, isn't monopolistic and has led to huge increases to quality of life for Americans. She very accurately described the content of the book, she cited it several times to mention how a lack of competition has been problematic. I don't think you know at all what you're talking about.

[@DoctorJellicle]

"of course they can afford a $400 emergency, they have credit" There are no words.

[@MrFearDubh]

Vaush showed a LOT of patience with this person, but even for me as a Boomer, this debate was VERY edifying!

[@vrdynasty3896]

Hey I learned a new word - Thank you.