Choosing A Home Coffee Roaster

[@greggholt1546]

Wow. Great clip. I started with a Behmor which I still believe is the perfect entry level. Eliminates so many variables while still giving a great option for control especially if you adopt some of the cooling hacks available online. I graduated to the Kaleido M2. Kind of a small yet significant step up in capacity and volume. Between the larger capacity and quicker roast cycle it's probably 3X more production. But a huge leap in control of all the variables. There is both pros and cons to that control. A LOT to monitor and adjust. I've trashed plenty of beans that would have been saved in a more controlled environment. But I've roasted some amazing coffee as well. I would never go back. Kaleido M2 and Artisan software. Love it. Very responsive machine that while quirky is solid. Haven't quite graduated to true profile roasting but the additional data and control make it very easy to repeat roasts.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Great comments Gregg. Thank you for sharing your experience starting out with the Behmor and moving to the Kaleido. That is a very accurate description of a typical transition to a drum roaster. The M2 is a great choice. Small footprint, total control, very responsive, and great roasts. Win Win...... Burning through beans is the membership fee to the drum roasting club. Profiling comes with experience and you are well on your way. Great Job!

[@TheSwoon69]

Great video. Your roast along videos helped me a lot when i bought my first roaster (Kaleido M1) about 2 months ago. It was so much easier to get into than i was expecting. Already making some of my favorite coffees ive ever had. Having different and fresh roasted coffees to try each week has been amazing. Appreciate the content

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Yaaaeeee! that is the purpose of my channel Swoon. I'm so glad the videos are helping you! Congrats on your M1. I'm sure you are having a lot of fun with that roaster. Thanks for watching and subscribing BUT most of all, for sharing your comment here.

[@eherrmann01]

Iv'e been using the Fresh Roast SR800 that I've modded to add thermocouples so that I can log my roasts with Artisan. With this setup, I've been able to get consistent roasts and have been able to follow profiles that I have developed for different bean origins.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

That's great Eric. Thanks for sharing. I really enjoy the fresh roast. What roast level are you going to? Are you using a probe to monitor inlet temperature? I'm curious how you are using that parameter to manage your heat/air.

[@eherrmann01]

@@VirtualCoffeeLab I tend to go for the darker roasts, Full City - Full City +. I have one probe at the top of the roaster for environment temp and one (longer) prob in the bean mass that gives me a good idea where the bean temp is at. I have the Fresh Roast extension tube, so I usually keep the power at 2-3, and use the fan to regulate the energy in the system.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Nice. Thanks for sharing your approach Eric. Yea, the Fresh Roast is powerful and many apply too much heat. I like your approach.

[@ZNels36]

I'm getting my heat gun/flour sifter roaster set up. It's adjustable in 10⁰ F increments so I'm hoping I can get it dialed in and get some decently accurate roast profiles!

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Nice. I didn't include the DIY roasting option in this video. I had a place to give it a mention. Honestly I was going to show my breadmaker/heatguh in the lineup BUT didn't have enough room in the background AND I already had a difficult time trimming down the video length. Enjoy the headgun/sifter. Thanks for sharing your home coffee roasting setup.

[@chuckster623]

Thanks, Mike, for another informative video. The biggest mistake I’ve made in home coffee roasting was to sell my Behmor 1600 Plus. I was fairly new into home coffee roasting and I wanted to track my roasts using Artisan. I couldn’t figure out an easy way to do it with the Behmor, but I could using a modified pop corn popper. I now use “The Poppery” from West Bend and control the heat using a variac, and I control fan speed with a rotary switch. Using Artisan eventually lost its glamour, so now I usually roast without going through the bother of attaching my laptop to use Artisan. I wish I still had the Behmor!

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hi Chuck. Thanks for sharing. Man, that stinks. That’s quite switch from the Behmor to a Highly modified popcorn popper. Well, if you miss the Behmor there is always eBay.

[@francofratangelo4782]

Hi Mike. I have 2 SR800 that I really enjoy. One with the Razzo and the other with the extension tube. Both modified for artisan. I also have the Roma Pro. Issues with all 3 is chaff collectors. The SR’s do a great job but at the end of the roast chaff does fall back into the beans. The Roma Pro however catches a considerable amount of chaff and beans. I find a good amount of beans inside the collector.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hello Franco, congrats on your roasters. The beans in the chaff collect are because you have too much air pushing the beans up near the top of the roasting chamber. I would suggest you try and keep your loft towards the middle of the roaster. Are you maxing your capacity? This would cause high jumps in your bean bubble. The Roma Pro has a slanted bottom of the roasting chamber. This causes the beans to be pushed up and circulated. It is a really nice design. Pay attention to the loft height on your next roast and try to lower your air a little to avoid your beans from being sucked up. You modified the Roma Pro with probes? Nice. Where did you place your probes. Would you mind sharing your setup?

[@francofratangelo4782]

@@VirtualCoffeeLab I roast 225 grams in all 3 roasters. I use the auto roast feature in the Roma Pro for a quick down and dirty roast when I don’t have time to set the SR’s and laptop up. With that said. I don’t max out the Roma Pro and even at 225 grams I get a good amount of beans in the chaff collector. I feel the roasting chamber and the outer glass tube are too short and the fan output in auto mode is too strong, thus as the beans lose their “weight” during the roast, the beans get tossed up. If the tubes were taller I think it might solve that issue. I don’t get any beans in the chaff collector on the SR’s because they’re significantly taller than the Roma Pro. I love the slanted floor of the RP and the bean shoot is a nice touch. To clarify just the SR’s are modified. But I am looking into making the same mod in the Roma Pro. Not sure how to post a photo on here to share. Sorry for the long post.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

@@francofratangelo4782 you could send the pic through my VirtualCoffeeLab facebook page. There is a social link connected to the "about" part of my youtube channel.

[@geraldarcuri9307]

Fresh Roast works for me. I always roast outdoors. My Behmor smoked so bad, my neighbors were ready to call the fire department. Profiling may be helpful, but unnecessary for me. I always monitor each batch as it's roasting, and adjust as necessary.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hi Gerald. Sounds like you are roasting on the darker side. I'm glad your Fresh Roast is working for you. Our senses really can help guide us through the roast.

[@AmpWilson-k4n]

Great ideas 💡

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thanks

[@mathewkimura7858]

Could you please include KAKACOO G400 next time ? That is one of the most budget drum roaster. I’ve been using it for a year and works great.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hi Matthew. Thanks for sharing the roaster you are using. I’m glad you are having a great experience. As I mentioned in my video, my list in the video was not a complete list of every roaster available, only roasters I own or have used. If the manufacturer would send me the roaster to review and use, I would include it on a future video. I have seen this roaster and several other brands with a similar design.

[@mmortada1978]

Amazing job as always 👏

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thanks for watching Beans. I'm glad you are enjoying the videos.

[@andrestorres3474]

Thank you so much for this video. I ended up buying the roma pro a couple of weeks ago. wanted to buy the fresh roast but there is no 220v version available for Europe, so the roma pro was the similar option. Would be interesting to see how you use it, as I am strugling to get descent coffee out of it

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thanks for watching and being a subscriber Andres. Congrats on your Roma Pro. It is a remarkably powerful roaster. I'll make a point of bringing the Roma Pro out and demonstrating a roast as part of a future video. I'm currently starting the Roasting 101 series so the Roma Pro will be great to use to demonstrate color change (it has great visibility). Are you roasting in the manual mode or the automatic settings? What roast level are you choosing and how much coffee are you roasting per batch?

[@andrestorres3474]

@@VirtualCoffeeLabThat sounds great! Looking forward to your new video series. I am currently experimenting/learning on manual mode. I modified the roaster with a thermocouple (just like your video on the fresh roast), also connected to a phidget to couple it to artisan and log my roasts. I just need to get a good profile on it, so just now is trial and error, until I get something descent. Currently doing batches of about 200gr.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

The roma pro's profiles from the factory are designed for a 300 gram roast. If you're roasting manually, the sky is the limit. I would take time learning how various heat settings impact roasting event times. For a medium roast, consider finding a heat setting that will get your beans yellow by 3 1/2 - 4 minutes. Once you have that figured out, try and find the correct heat setting to allow about 3 1/2 minutes in the middle phase from dry end to first crack. Then, spend about 1 1/2 - 2 minutes in development, allowing crack to take place at a nice easy pace not a crazy fireworks show. That should get you close to some nice coffee with the Roma Pro. Keep in mind, lowering your fan will increase temperatures. The Roma fan is powerful so don't overpower or you will suck beans into the chaff collector.

[@andrestorres3474]

@@VirtualCoffeeLabthank you for the tip! 😊

[@LivingTheLifeRetired]

Great video Mike. How are you? Happy Canadian Thanksgiving! I just sat down with a cup of Ethiopian Yirgacheffe roasted on my M1. You definitely have an abundance of roasters to choose from. Now that you have a number of more advanced roasters like the Bullet or the Kaleido do you ever go back and roast on some of your other roasters? How would you compare the Bullet to your Mill City? Can you get a comparable quality roast?

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Edward, Happy Canadian Thanksgiving friend. I hope you enjoyed your time with family. Yes, i do have a few roasters. Truthfully, i use them occasionally for small batch stuff. I also pull them out for roasting profile research. My daily driver right now is the Kaleido M10 and that is because of my weekly capacity. I do one 800 gram batch, one 600 gram batch and two 400 gram batches each week. So the smaller air roasters are not efficient for me. I don't have access to the bullet. I borrowed a friends bullet to do those videos. I miss using the Mill City and would like to do some roasting on it. I have not connected it lately because of the capacity issue AND for various videos i've been making lately. I need to replace the igniters on the Mill City. I get comparable quality roasts on the M2, M10, Bullet, and Mill City 500 gram. I would be pleased to roast with any of those machines!

[@Poundy]

Notable omission - the MCR ! Does that mean you've permanently moved it on? What's your permanent go-to now, the M2?

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hi Brett - No, still have the MCR. I didn't include this in the list because they are really expensive now ($6,500 usd Plus). My MCR is under capacity for my weekly usage AND I've been swapping different roasters out for my video. The MCR500 needs a little work so i've got it on the workbench. I need to replace the ignitors. Also, just trying to find the time to do that while keeping up with my work, family, church, and these videos has kind of delayed the maintenance/repairs. The M10 has been a sweet roaster and I roast 800 gram batches on that every week. The M2 is an awesome roaster, very powerful, compact, and I wold highly recommend that one as well. Now, If I were selling beans and wanted to purchase a 5 Kilo, what would I consider??? hmmm.

[@sunsetchristmaslights8526]

What are your thoughts on the ITOP Skywalker, 600g max drum roaster? I have a Fresh Roast SR800, and was looking for a more affordable drum roaster to get practise with while I'm saving for the Kaleido M6..

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Because I don’t have any personal experience with this roaster, I have no opinion either way. I would Ike to use one to review and compare but I don’t want to spend that kind of money on another roaster. Knowing the coffee roasting events and how to sense them is one way to be prepared for any new roaster. Expect your roast times to be longer than your SR. The biggest adjustment will be using artisan. Sorry I couldn’t offer more insight on the skywalker roaster.

[@sunsetchristmaslights8526]

@@VirtualCoffeeLab I really appreciate your insight. I've actually pulled the trigger on the M6S Dual model. So I'm going to be going over all your M2 videos and other M6 vids to get some better idea of what I've gotten myself into!

[@sunsetchristmaslights8526]

Okay.. I've taken the M6S out of the box and want to try it out. I've seen Reddit comments that I should be throwing away the first 5 roasts as part of the seasoning process and to ensure the beans aren't contaminated with lubricants and such from inside the roaster. Is that true? Seems wasteful..

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

@@sunsetchristmaslights8526 Yes, I would recommend seasoning your roaster. Find some cheap trash beans and use those.

[@Spectrum_Auto_Spa]

Thank you for the info. I been thinking of getting a Behmor roaster. Did you see an increase on your electrical bill doing 2 roasts per week?

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thanks for subscribing and watching. Hmmm, for two roasts per week on the Behmor I didn't notice much of a change in my bill. It is hard to tell because we run air conditioning, which sucks a lot of electricity. Some days are hotter than others so our bill fluctuates.

[@dazpower1234]

Hello buddy get the itop or skywalker do a long review on it

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

I will reach out to the manufacturer and see. What are you currently roasting with?

[@jameswagner9894]

The new version is coming out now.

[@classicrockonly]

I keep contemplating upgrading from my BocaBoca 250 because 225g batches are becoming too small. But dang a lot of the larger capacity roasters are so far out of reach to get to 500g :(

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Yea, your going to double or triple what you spent on the BocaBoca. It is a jump so if/when you decide to upsize, consider your long term interest and needs. The Bullet and Kaleido M10 both roast 400-1k range. I'm saying that because you can grow into the roaster as needed. You can start roasting at 400 and then as your needs increase you have the capacity.

[@classicrockonly]

@@VirtualCoffeeLab Definitely an investment! I'd probably consider getting into those if I could start building a small base of people willing to buy coffee...but otherwise, the Behmor should be able to do a 400g batch okay right? Maybe 350g?

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

I don't roast 1 lb batches on the behmor because it takes too long. Max batch size for me is 1/2 lb or 227 grams. Once I go bigger I struggle to roast with the profiles I like. There are plenty of people who roast 1 pound on the behmor and they are happy. It all depends on your roasting style and what you are trying to achieve.

[@classicrockonly]

@@VirtualCoffeeLab Mind telling me how it affects your roast profiles going with a larger batch? My only familiarity with the concept is people often talk about uneven roasts if the batch size is too large

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Sure. There are two ways to understand your question. 1. Using the same roaster, how does increasing my batch size affect my roast profile? 2. Will roasting larger batches on larger machines like a 500 gram give me a different profile than the BocaBoca? The answers are different yet for the same reason. Let's say you are roasting 225 grams on your BocaBoca, but you decide to roast at maximum capacity of 350 grams. (I don't know what the max capacity is but let's just say it is 350 for this example). Your profile will change for several reasons. First, let's look at how it will change. It's going to take a longer time to roast your coffee. So, the amount of time the coffee will be in the middle phase and the development phase are longer. This will impact the way the coffee tastes. It might not be a negative impact, just different. You might not get the acidity you were able to get from the same coffee using a smaller batch size. You might get roasting defects because your at full power and there isn't a lot of bean movement because the drum is full of beans. You might notice smoky notes in the coffee because you have less airflow. Maybe your roaster has enough power to roast that many beans but you might notice a more uneven roast because of less bean movement and more conductive (bean to bean - bean to drum) heat transfer. If you were using fewer beans (225g) then you would also have hot air that is helping roast the beans more evenly rather than the bean to bean contact. Roasting on a larger roaster will generally mean more power is required AND in most cases the larger roasters are more powerful. If we stick to home roasting, let's move from the BocaBoc to the Behmor. The behmor is rated to roast 1 lb (about 455 grams) of coffee. It is a 1600 watt roaster. Your BocaBoca is 1500 watts. Now, power isn't everything. Airflow, metal conductivity, insulation, drum speed, pre-warming, and charge temperatures will all have a huge impact on your roast. The Behmor is going to take about 15-20 minutes to roast 1 lb of coffee. It will be more difficult to roast different types of profiles unless you use a smaller batch size. So, if you were to make a jump to the Behmor you really wouldn't be gaining anything. Now, if you were to move to say, a Kaleido M2, which is 400 gram capacity it has more than enough power to roast almost any profile you want at max capacity. You might need to go down a little in batch size but you are in a whole different world , mostly due to the available power, airflow, and amazing drum speed. Back to the uneven roast question. Many people have uneven roasts because of the following: Too large a batch size Pushing the roast with too much heat. Too short of a roast Not enough development difference in bean structure and moisture from bean to bean not enough bean movement Not sure I answered your question but those are my thoughts.

[@BaristaBod]

Could you do a video of how to roast a full pound on the behmor, in situations where you have to roast a pound

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Honestly, if I was faced with that decision I would rather roast two separate 1/2 pound roasts. Roasting a 1 lb roast on the Behmor would take 13-18 minutes and that isn’t a profile I would desire. Was there a particular issue or question you have about this or are you just curious how it might turn out?

[@BaristaBod]

@@VirtualCoffeeLab well i have to roast 1 pound bags right now for my small business, i was thinking so it would be the exact same to one pound batches, but would you recommend switching to 1/2 and would it work if i have to do half pound batches?

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

If you are following one of my behmor video recipes then you will need to use the same batch size I used in my video OR the profile won't even be close. In that case, yes, use 1/2 lb per roast. The reason why I don't recommend roasting 1 lb of green coffee beans on the Behmor is because it takes too long to roast and the flavor profile I want is not possible.

[@BaristaBod]

@ ok would it be faster to roast 2, 1/2 pound bags than one 1lbs bag. And does the 50-30-20 rule you have replicate more of a medium roast?

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hi Carsen. Nope, it will take longer to roast 2 separate roasts of 1/2 lb each. You could roast 1/2 pound in about 9 minutes. Then there is the cool down time. Then you would pre-warm the Behmor again before your next roast. It seems like you are trying to roast as much coffee as possible with the Behmor. I get it. Many people start their businesses with the Behmor before they move up to a larger capacity roaster. My friend, Trevor, has a cafe that roasts over a thousand of pounds of coffee every month. He started on a Behmor. I would encourage you to watch this video. I have the link set to start where we begin to talk specifically about the Behmor. kzbin.info/www/bejne/pIq5Z6yQmdmNoJIsi=PrA1gimrskW7mxlw&t=668 With regard to the 50-30-20 rule, that was simply a starting point for those roasting on a drum roaster. It is a general rule to help people get close to a balanced cup of coffee. So, in a sense, yes, it would work well for a medium roast. With the Behmor, the dry phase can take a little longer so I think you should focus on the length of time of the middle phase and the development phase with the ultimate goal of landing on a consistent roast level based on color. So, about 3 1/2 minutes for the middle phase and 2 minutes for the development phase would be a good place to start when it comes to flavor development. On lighter roasts, or coffees you want to highlight acidity then you would have a shorter development time (between 1 to 1 1/2 minutes long and a lighter ending color. I hope that makes sense. I would encourage you to watch the entire video with Trevor but at least the Behmor part.

[@robertcombs8730]

Hi Mike. I see you have the M2S now. I am seriously considering that roaster coming from an SR540 with Razzo with thermocouple port that I have been roasting on for over 4 years. I want to gain complete control by using artisan or their tablet or probably both. I want to roast from light to dark with complete control. It seems with the updates to the sealed model this should be a great roaster. How would you rate the cupping of the M2 against all the others? Any negatives to be warned of? Thanks in advance!

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hi Robert. I love the M2. Great roaster, full control, repeatability, connectivity...... yep.... Good choice. The only thing to think about is your total capacity. Is 400 your max or do you need to consider another size up? Honestly, I roast 400 grams all day long on the M10 and it does a great job. Currently, I do one 800-gram batch, one 600-gram batch and two 400-gram batches each week on the M10. The M2 will give great roasts but if you plan to roast more than 400 grams the total capacity is something to think about.

[@robertcombs8730]

Thanks Mike. I would be doing 2 or 3 300-350 gram roasts per week for personal use and more on the few occasions of gift giving. I like the ability of it to roast smaller batches for profiling and experimentation. From what I understand the exhaust is pressurized so it doesn’t need any additional fan in the venting? Could you please let me know the size of the adapter on the exhaust to vent and your vent diameter? I really enjoy your videos and content. As a serious home roaster they have been very helpful and informative. Happy Cupping!

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hi Robert. I bought a "dust collector reducer sleeve" that is made of metal. The adapter is 1 1/2 inches to fit on the exhaust of the Kaleido and the other side of the adapter is 3 inches to fit standard dryer flexible vent. www.grainger.com/product/48RJ23

[@jdevilk]

Hi, what is your opinion for kaffelogic for home use ?

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

I have not use that roaste. I’ve used the LINK, who’s is a similar roaster designed more for sample roasting but can be used for home. It has different software. The Kaffelogic roasts about 50-100 grams? Maybe a little more. If you plan to consume more than that per week it will mean multiple roasts. It is programmable right? I think the kaffelogic is designed for home use. There are a few people that have it and commented on the roaster here. All favorable feedback. Sorry I can’t offer more. Based on the price point, there are other options like the kaleido m1, and m2

[@jdevilk]

Thank you a lot for your reply, I was thinking for kaleido but I cannot find a reseller in Europe and I am not too keen to order directly from china ( I always prefer if there is a representative relatively closer) but I will keep it in mind.

[@tenajan]

what's your opinion about ITOP CBR Electric coffee bean roaster?

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thanks for your question. I do not have any personal experience with this roaster. It seems there are many similar roasters like this that are coming out. I don't know if they are all made in the same factory and just branded differently. One concern would be support. Buying something like this could be a great experience but will you be able to talk with someone about a problem or possible diagnose problems with your roaster? It is 1,000 watts of power. This seems to be underpowered for a 400 gram capacity? Compare the power of the ITOP CBR Electric coffee bean roaster to something like the skywalker, Behmor, or other small appliance type coffee roasters. The M2 by Kaleido is a 400 gram roaster and it has 1600 watts of power. The Behmor is 1630 watts. This could be a great roaster but I just can't really share a strong opinion without using the roaster.