Cognitive Biases in Tier Lists

[@theaGeneric]

This video is so good it brought tiers to my eyes

[@arJunebugSmash]

LMAOOOOOO

[@pompkons2809]

🏆

[@senby2306]

i really think a niche exists for content analyzing the psychological aspects of smash bros, and a down-to-earth personality with a sense of humor like junebug is the perfect one to fill that space! You should feature Rishi & Zain more! We hope the KZbin algorithm blesses you

[@arJunebugSmash]

lol thank you! I will definitely have to think about some other psychological stuff to unpack in the community.

[@GuberYT]

@@arJunebugSmash Vermanubis has some of the best videos on the relationship between Smash and the player's mentality, and might be a great help in satisfying this niche!

[@renos654]

The solution is simple, professor Junebug: Just make a tier list-tier list so we can finally know which ones we can trust.

[@krystof5271]

Need everyone in the community to make a tier list tier list so we can then make a tier list of the tier list tier lists to know what is truly the best tier list

[@BionicPotatoOfficial]

@@krystof5271 that would be way too biased to make any real decisions on. What we need is a baby who is in no way biased in the matter to choose.

[@illford]

@@BionicPotatoOfficial they should get an outsider

[@illford]

Isn't that what they did with the new melee one

[@DemikDragonganger]

Got my ass.... I know you're trolling now, but this definitely activated the part of my brain that says things like "HOW COULD THEY MISS THE PINT SO HARD!?" 🤣

[@donot1397]

read the title as “why every tier list is based” and thought it was an april fools joke

[@JV-uq9cf]

"babe wake up new junebug upload"

[@seanathan1]

Why Every Tier List is Based

[@mackeckert3902]

MASTERPIECE VIDEO

[@arJunebugSmash]

Thank you!!!

[@davidpowers1175]

Super interesting, had to pause the video to go look at that cognitive biases diagram and do some reading.

[@LordDio]

On the real, we've forgotten the best way to make tier lists: matchup charts. Back in the arcade days for fighting games, top players and community members would evaluate each how each character performs against one another and tally the totals. These are, of course, still susceptible to the same biases as discussed in this video, however, the discussion that went into their creation was more nuanced, detailed, and any claims were substantiated across the entire cast. The way we make tier lists now is lazy and doesn't provide any insight into the game beyond a surface level. I understand that the aforementioned process is long and arduous, especially for a game like smash ultimate with 70 characters, but that's the price to pay for accuracy. Besides, aren't we developing matchup knowledge for our characters throughout the game's lifespan anyways? Surely there's a way to come together and organize this wealth of knowledge.

[@sheridan5175]

Even that's not entirely accurate; look at kazuya's mu chart in ultimate.

[@DemikDragonganger]

I agree it simply DOES, provide alot more instantly applicable data for your matches to do it that way... though i guess thats technically just like, my opinion man.

[@GMEhnc]

incredible approach to the topic, would love to hear more about parts of that graphic and how it affects thoughts/discussions about the meta!

[@skylerwilde9502]

This is so clearly something you care deeply about and it shows in your work. Excellent video man

[@TangySeed]

I was brought over here from reddit, my roommate & I were talking exactly about this topic yesterday so thank you for making a video on this topic! Really insightful to hear the perspective from someone who has expertise in this field

[@darkhawkwingsgt]

Good job on the video dude!

[@narbonne7637]

This is the best video about tier list I’ve ever seen by a OLYMPIC mile.

[@GustoFormula]

5:37 surely you were tempted to say "lest we wreck ourselves" lol

[@mitchschrader1647]

"We'll Blur out the name" lol

[@RokOD]

I love behavioral and cognitive psychology! Great vid, very well researched and very well explained june :)

[@Rain-od6oc]

i love that okami poster you have on your wall

[@invalidssb]

"Why Every ( ) is Biased "

[@wassabisabi9871]

Amazing video! Really loved the intro introducing cognitive bias as well as the base.

[@ChitinMan]

This is a really nice video :) Looking forward to the one about top player biases and whatever else you have cooking.

[@nicolascolaizzi2519]

love this video, dealing with non smash drama right now and ppl understanding cognitive bias would have stopped it before it even started

[@MattHaley94]

I love content like this! Cognitive biases are super cool, mind bending even. I hope you weave your education into more videos!

[@ACrazyMonk]

This video was super interesting to watch thanks for putting the work into it

[@ricardoludwig4787]

I do think that favoring more current results is important, but more in the sense of favoring what happened in 2019 versus 2015 instead of January vs march, altough your point about still having to check them is just absolutely facts

[@robinscompass5951]

I know I’m late to the party, but this is probably one of my single favorite smash videos, it puts together a lot of things I think about in an extremely concise, well communicated and efficient manner while still being entertaining. Great content as always :)

[@arJunebugSmash]

Thank you! I do wanna develop more psych and smash content one of these days

[@kylecarlon6800]

Very POGGERS content mr bug :)

[@arJunebugSmash]

Thank you Mr. swah 🙃

[@Jfoltz39]

Great video! Can’t wait for the next one about top players. Thank you

[@timentimentim]

these vids are really good. Interesting and good vibe

[@davidpoirier5945]

I just remembered absolutely loving your commentary at a smash tournament and decided to see if you have a channel and I'm insanely impressed. This is honestly some of the most unique and amazing smash content I've personally seen in a while and looking through your videos I really think you deserve to make it big. May the Algorithm Gods bless you and have a great day :)

[@arJunebugSmash]

This is a very kind comment! Thank you! We try to put out content I feel good about on a monthly basis. Def not as much content as some of the other smash channels, but it's all stuff I enjoy and want to talk about :) glad you do too

[@surfyswag]

Very cool, keep it up junebug!

[@gabrielwoolmington1618]

I would really love to see some more content like this! Even beyond a kind of sequel, some more content about cog neurosci in gaming would be great because you’re clearly knowledgeable and passionate about it!

[@ASCENDANTGAMERSAGE]

This is really cool. I'd love to see more. I realized that I really enjoy ripping apart biases in other people (and hopefully myself, probably not though). I've felt these when I talk to fox players and said fox is not a deity of smash. They treat me like a blasphemer lol

[@JPlumsIX]

I misread the title as saying that every tierlist is "based" -- this is a very different video than I expected

[@lucalyons-sosa9843]

I follow the LoL pro scene really vehemently, and I think that status quo bias is INSANELY prevalent in almost every analyst's perspective on the game. People will assume that some things are "good" because of a win percentage or prevalence alone, thus forgoing any legitimate analysis of why those things may or may not be true. In the Melee community we are leaps and bounds ahead of this, but in these types of discussions, these types of Biases can sprout right up, and often do. When I try and conclude where a character is on the tier list, I try to think of it in terms of what matchups the characters win and lose, and who they win or lose against. That's how I try to come to the most "objective" answer. Basically, I think that the vast majority of people are thinking that Marth is the best because of Zain, but I've thought Marth to be the best for a couple years now, just based on how Marth in theory doesn't lose a single matchup in the game. Still though, I think that this is a fantastic vid, and is very accurate and telling of how people tend to form their opinions.

[@rkraccoons]

Clicked for tier lists, stayed for psychology

[@beigematt4927]

Your vids are so good, and I'm surprised how comfortable you seemed talking to a camera alone in your room

[@arJunebugSmash]

did a lot of acting as a kid so I definitely have that stage presence exp lol

[@pompkons2809]

instant click for a new junebug video

[@Vestedd]

Oh yeh... I forgot about that. Remember when Zain went on a tear with fuckin Roy? ROYYYYY. As if people have any reason to blame Marth for being OP when it's literally just Zain. So silly

[@Indubitably_Pol]

I’m down if you wanna make that 3 hour video

[@kota8045]

Very cool idea!

[@senby2306]

Professor Junebug!!! Cognitive biases, anchoring, good stuff! The true galaxy brain

[@OfficialMaxwellYT]

Biases that affect top level players specifically sounds like a really cool topic!

[@autumndth]

This video is so good i love your content sm

[@arJunebugSmash]

thank you so much!

[@l.t.c8.1.46]

Man came out quoting Kahneman and Tversky. As an economics student, I appreciate that.

[@someboyname]

thank you for the video you beautifully bearded smash guru

[@michaelaeschbacher4648]

I put off psychology homework to watch youtube, and learned psychology anyways

[@arJunebugSmash]

The best type of learning is the type you don't expect - Abraham Lincoln, probably

[@bb97979]

I'm a simple being. I see a handsome man, I mean Junebug, I click The amazing informative content is just a great bonus.

[@25_Ciel]

Just commenting for the algorithm, Stan junebug

[@Colin-Smoke]

watched this video while studying for my cognitive psychology exam and called it studying. feelsgoodman

[@MrLachapell]

This guy talk it's 3 am and he doesn't want to wake up his roommate

[@idontgiveashk]

god i love this shit HELL YA

[@Jazardly]

Mr Game and Watch was considered low tier early in Ultimate, now he's one of the most hated top tiers

[@chrispo7610]

Not even a top tier tbh, just a solid high tier, with mediocre neutral but fantastic adv and disadv

[@Crazy4Daisy]

I would want a 3 hour video tho.

[@Crazy4Daisy]

Sequel?

[@mickeymcintyre6156]

So, I have a tier list idea that could, maybe, possibly remove SOME of the subjectivity that naturally comes with people making tier lists based on... whatever metrics they decide on. The idea is essentially to have the ultimate metric of the tier list be matchup spread over matchup frequency. How *matchup spread* would be calculated: Have the current top 1-2 players of EACH character in Melee fill out a roster-wide matchup chart for their main (e.g. Zain would fill out Marth's mu chart, Hbox/2Saint could do Puff's, Mango Falco's, aMSa Yoshi's, etc.) on an x/(100-x) scale. So if Zain were to do Marth's, he could hypothetically fill out the Marth-Fox mu as 57/43, the Marth-Falco at 51/49, the Marth/Pichu at 82/18, etc. This way, essentially two relevant top player opinions would contribute to each matchup analysis (as Zain would share his thoughts on Marth-Falco while Mango would share his on Falco-Marth, so the mu spread for those two characters would be taken as the average between Zain and Mango's (admittedly still subjective but at least well-informed and quantified) numbers). How *matchup frequency* would be calculated: This one is trickier, because Slippi character usage stats likely wouldn't be useful (if they even exist) because of character trends there being different compared to actual tournaments (e.g. Roy is currently popular on Slippi). So my next thought was to count up how many top 64 appearances a character has had since 20(whatever year. 07? 13?)--with maybe counting top 8s doubly--and use those as weights for each mu. For example, if Fox has had 500 appearances in top 64s but Ganondorf has only had 50, every character's Fox mu would count 10 (500/50) times as much as their Ganon mu, since Fox has proven to be that much more relevant to the Melee meta. Yes, this would ultimately HEAVILY weigh the most popular characters' matchups way more than Bowsers' and Ness', for example, but that's kind of the point here. The point of having matchup frequency serve as a weight is to put more emphasis on the matchups that have mattered more throughout Melee's history. How would the math work from here exactly? I'm not sure yet, but it can definitely be done (I know someone out there would know how!). But basically, once every character has their weighted values set, the goal would be to boil them down in order to effectively rank each character based on their weighted mu spreads, and that would be the tier list. Junebug, if you've read this far, I hope you've found this interesting! I'd love to get feedback on this, and even more to eventually see something slightly more objective like this gain some traction. I personally think this could be extremely useful for a calculated tier list that could easily be adapted over time! Much love!

[@notyou6674]

oh so that's why everyone else is wrong and I'm always right makes sense good thing I'm not biased or anything #kirbyistop10 #ridleyisatwinkifyouthinkaboutit

[@raghavpatel720]

Facts! Tier lists are subjective as hell

[@oceanwaves83]

It took 99% of the melee community roughly 18 years to adopt the concept of Falcon being a borderline top tier character, lol.

[@robo-rex0239]

BEARD

[@Radarssbm]

Actually I am able to experience reality in a very logical and objective way. It’s something I’ve been able to do since a young age and because of that, unlike most people, especially smashers, my opinions are inherently more factual. I often watch Leffen’s stream and notice how many things he misses in game, but he’s too afraid to listen to me ever since blocking me on Twitter 😂. I’ll put it in words you plebs can understand...I study the game like I study the blade... While others are wave dashing in their bedrooms I’m expanding my mind listening to classical scholars like Nietzsche, Aristotle, and Jordan Peterson. Perhaps you’d like help writing your next video?? I realized immediately after watching that you’re a bit too biased to cover this topic. What does being a top 100 player have to do with melee?? I am very intelligent 1/X That reminds me of a

[@claytonmorey2505]

awesome video

[@andrewlazar4804]

Biggest True of All Time

[@cheesewizz_]

yeah, but my luigi still slaps

[@Maverickzelot]

09:05 LUL

[@DrewZGmusic]

Why can't I grow a beard like yours man

[@arJunebugSmash]

Genetics is unfair sometimes

[@xboxgamer474246]

Tires don exits my friend :)

[@xdaisojo]

Vid aged like a fine wine now that Mang0 beat Zain with fox

[@arJunebugSmash]

Huh

[@AliBaba-sw4ej]

I read the title as "Why Every Tier List is Based"

[@DemikDragonganger]

THANK YOU, for putting the codex in the description. I love you i really do bud, but damn is it hard to absorb info with your inconsistent speaking pace. 😅

[@thatmf4739]

You should compete in melee

[@TheUnicornslayer]

blur takes 😭

[@pavango3812]

You should have put CrimsonBlur’s Twitter over the floaties tweet as a joke

[@Z10ZeeTen]

Okay but where’s the tier list of all the cognitive biases

[@arJunebugSmash]

1. Primacy bias

[@BacchusGames]

hehe blur

[@JiyakuBuraku]

Aren't these also considered logical fallacies

[@arJunebugSmash]

They are! I like framing them as biases slightly more because humans are illogical all the time, and understanding them as biases rather than dismissing them as fallacies is more worthwhile to me But that may be one of my biases speaking 😅

[@turtlechamp8325]

This is the definition of people claiming puff is the best character because of ONE GUY lmao. (Also kirby is mid tier fight me)

[@davidpowers1175]

I love Kirby

[@ET-oq1vj]

L O W E R L I P

[@Lilly-qt4yy]

You really missed your chance to make a tier list of the biases based on how disruptive they were to cognition or how much they influenced tier lists specifically

[@arJunebugSmash]

DANG IT NEXT TIME

[@LordDio]

i think you are biased because of your bachelor's in cognitive science

[@arJunebugSmash]

Shit you got me

[@andrew.mp4311]

your nitpicking and biased i win bye bye

[@arJunebugSmash]

Damn you got me

[@andrewjames6117]

Man I'm disappointed you didn't rank these biases on a tier list at the end. Great video otherwise

[@benaskrensintellect332]

Why have a good mic just to talk way too quiet? Ur s sounds are the only loud part

[@worldwide1299]

june i love ur content but can u please speak louder or get a louder mic im not trying to offend anybody i just cant hear u

[@arJunebugSmash]

Lol yeah I'll speak louder cuz it's a p good mic