Cold no-start Case Study: '95 Ram V10 -Part 1

This old big-block Dodge truck is being tempermental and refusing to start in cool weather. The owner has replaced many parts, but to no avail. The symptoms are quite bizarre!
Let's see if we can track down the issue and get the Big Ram back to work!
Enjoy!

[@wyattoneable]

I didn't think I'd stick around for 31 minutes but again you proved me wrong. I find these case studies a lot of fun. Am I a geek? I'm just a DIY guy but at the very least if I have to take my truck to a technician, I will at least know his language. I appreciate that you bring us along.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

+wyattoneable Sure thing I do my best so you won't fall asleep haha

[@turtlezed]

@wyattoneable.......we're all geeks mate :¬)

[@cojones8518]

To see if the PCM is failing because of the cold you can take it out after the day warms up and starts reliably and stick the PCM in the freezer for a while. If it does the same thing as a cold morning start then there's your problem. You can also try and start it on a cold morning, if it fails, put the PCM in a box while connected and warm it up with a hair dryer through a hole in the box to get rid of all other variables.

[@Adam-bw4lw]

WARNING SKILL LEVEL 1000 :) .Nice thinking a like it

[@rubengarcia6920]

CO Jones bad solder spots would show their ugly face

[@bronzechicken4437]

Dodge V10, absolutely insane motor

[@garlinwillingham7011]

Ivan, I'm really enjoying this video. It is detective work at it's best. Your vids just keep getting better and better. Keep up the good work.I hope you don't keep us waiting too long for the next one in the series.

[@ultron6931]

These are the same symptoms that you find with the jeep ECM problems. These were notorious for the capacitors going bad on the board. The ECM is covered in silicone but they can be replaced. The number one issue was that the check engine light was not on until leaving the key on for several minutes. I came across this issue when I was searching for issues on my 98 intrepid.

[@int53185]

Had a buddy with a 99 Ram with the same symptoms. Turned out to be a corroded connector in the under hood fuse box. Good luck.

[@dc5723]

Good luck Ivan, looking forward to the solution!

[@djrumple9761]

the suspense is killing me lol can't wait for part 2, was just getting good ,i'll keep the popcorn on hold for now. thanks for the vids keep-em coming ivan.

[@petepeabody8905]

Ivan as always is an interesting ride along with your logic. Hopefully this truck will be good again soon. I bet it will.......Pete

[@richardhebert6185]

I woudn't know where to start...lol...Good job !!!

[@acarl-lo5tg]

I think there is a voltage leak onto the wire that provides a common ground control for the ASD and fuel pump relay. When the ignition switch is turned to start and the starter spins the engine, the PCM grounds this common circuit. But because there is a voltage leak on this ground wire this interferes with the ASD and fuel pump relay coils engaging and closing their respective slave circuits. It is interesting that the wiring diagram used shows no pinout at the PCM for this circuit. I think it is pin 51. I would remove the 60 way connector at the PCM and look for corrosion, melted plastic or something else that is allowing current to travel between the receptacles. I believe pin 32 controls the MIL and it is in the row above and close by and could be shorted to pin 51???

[@mrboragus3657]

When I was like 8 I wired a relay to switch on from 5V battery and then short the same battery just to see what happens :) Well, TRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR happens! So, my guess, you have a short to the ground on the wire(s) the ASD relay controls. The short heats up and stops being a short? -- that's probably the funniest thing happening here. I am sure tracing the exact location will be a major pain! Good luck, Vanya!

[@phprofYT]

Holy crap. It's been taken over by the space people and they are sending you a message.

[@ianlevine273]

Great puzzle. Can't wait for part 2.

[@OOZ662]

"Repaired - Helicopter removed from relay box."

[@zoidberg444]

+OOZ662 WELL THARS YOUUUR PLABLAM!!!! lololol

[@billyr9840]

Ivan, can't wait to see what you come up with. I had a 2000 dodge 1500 with a 5.9L doing just about the same thing but it started when it was cold The relays would chatter like crazy and it sounded like it had a huge vacuum leak. It would do this for about 5 minutes then wham run like a charm. I started to investigate, then the tranny went. I ended up selling it to a guy who had the same truck with a blown engine, so he wanted it for parts. Out of curiosity, I sure would like to see the fix because I see a lot of similarities in the symptoms that mine had !

[@chungaleta1234]

CSI Pine Hollow!

[@glenharper3136]

The suspense is killing us!

[@johnmckamy6398]

the legend being Eric O.

[@TileRoofsCanada]

Great video Ivan, can't wait for part 2

[@ozzstars_cars]

I would start searching for a poor ground connection, corrosion of some sort

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

+Ozzstar But where? I was hoping to find a bad PCM ground, but those all checked out perfect!

[@ozzstars_cars]

+motoYam82 haha that is the key question....chassis and engine grounds can be a pain to find and access. If i was there I could point them out to you lol Looking forward to seeing part 2

[@paulmoffat9306]

@@ozzstars_cars I had an issue with my 03 Trailblazer - there was some resistance in the battery-chassis ground connection. I removed the bolt, used a burr to clean rust off then added some copper no-sieze to the connection. Voila! Issue gone.

[@zoidberg444]

Is the fuse box one of those integrated controllers on this vehicle or does 1995 predate that technology on Chryslers? If warming it up fixes it it must be a bad solder trace or joint somewhere. I don't think applying heat would fix a crusty connector. Fascinating stuff Ivan. Looking forward to part 2.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

+zoidberg444 Oh man this thing is a dinosaur, made way before the garbage integrated TIPM modules came to the scene! The relays on this thing are bomb-proof!

[@Peter_Riis_DK]

Shit! Another cliffhanger. ;-) Please hurry and post the next episode, Ivan - and thanks a million for sharing your interesting adventures in car electronics.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

+Peter Riis My pleasure, Peter! I promise I won't keep you waiting too long :)

[@rsage_]

Had to pause watching this and make myself some Nutella Crêpes.

[@emtscythe3782]

Hum.... Those PCMs are problematic. I recently worked on a 87 Dakota that had a bad PCMs that was temp sensitive, instead it would start and run fine when cold then stall once it warmed up. Excited for P2

[@mph5896]

Hopefully you get Walker Texas Rangers truck fixed.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

+m ph HAHAHA you're not going to believe this, but the owner of this truck is a spitting image of the legend himself...maybe his brother?

[@wtbm123]

Interesting for sure . Wonders if it is the fuse box . if temp is a factor , may try warming up separate parts and see if one changes with heat

[@leebarnes655]

+wtbm123 Most excellent suggestion, I'm thinking of an 80s big hair days hair dryer myself. Almost sounds as if there is another relay under the two that quit buzzing only when both are pulled and only diminishes when one or the other is pulled. This aspect most puzzling say Charlie Chan. Hey Ivan, I thought I saw a joining of the 8 volt and 5 volt circuits within the TPS sensor at one point in the morning scroll thru the diagrams - might be of some use to test these circuits inside the TPS? You are being tested with these odd ball cases Ivan - it happens only to the best, a tempering under fire if you will.

[@johnmckamy6398]

does it have a power dist box? sounds like a ground

[@wmichaels362]

The clicking relays remind me of GM's relays in the under hood fuse box making noise even when 'all' the relays were removed. It turned out, there are non-replaceable relays on the circuit board, that can only be seen when the fuse box is dis-assembled! WTF - well that's funny!

[@karlbuttler]

2:00; this should be a Fun one :-)

[@Muelli1000000]

Perhaps a ground connection in the fusebox? You could check the ASD and fuel pump relay ground...

[@DependableAutoTruck]

ebay has a adapter that plugs into the under hood plug and adapts to the regular 16 pin connector that is on the scanner thats what i use for my truck and you don't need the power source either

[@seniorjuanvaldez]

I had one of these, had a bad ICM you can't get get one anywhere!

[@unencumbered]

Would cranking the engine, while using a tender, have helped while initially checking your pcm pins?

[@fieldsofomagh]

Was sitting comfortable, wondering what the blazes is goin on, when the tea break comes around. That is sure one sick truck. One relay off colour, but the second ? The T pin is the way to go. Dodgy 8 volt reference for sure.Pcm's dont go that often unless diyers try their hand.The owner is signed up to the 98% ers with all the parts changed. Don't mention Schrodinger's box or there be trouble ahead.

[@themikeanic1535]

Pcm's from that vintage thru the 2000s were very problematic, mainly for weird no starts like this and general no starts. I can't count how many of them I have encountered.

[@owensimonson4592]

i have a 96 dodge v10 that im not getting spark or fuel sometime... one minute its will have spark and fuel and run just fine and driving down the road it will just die and wont start again... woundering if you have hear of this before or have worked on one before

[@Blazer02LS]

Leak over the PCM caused water to get inside and corrode the board or a similar issue at the fuse box? I seem to recall an issue with the fuse panel boards in those but that was long ago... Grab a heat gun and hit the bottom of the fuse box. If no go heat the PCM. I've seen a few where the solder joints fail and the cold causes the board to contract enough that there is no contact. When they warm up they act fine.

[@baxrok2.]

This is a sweet one Ivan. Looking forward to P2 and the fix.

[@turtlezed]

initially after being told it works after 'drying it out' i thought water ingress short......moisture in the air absorbed into the green fluffy crud??

[@StopDropandLOL]

I remember hearing clicking like that when the central timer module was working on my old BE series Dodge Ram. It wouldn't start either and would stall out.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

+StopDropandLOL What's a Central Timer Module and what does it do?

[@StopDropandLOL]

Dodge's version of a BCM. My Ram was a 99 so I'm not sure if yours has one but it should.

[@StopDropandLOL]

Also it controlled lots of electronics in the interior. Also contained a primitive PATS system which would cut fuel and stall the engine, which was another problem they had.

[@seanwheaton1929]

I would heat the brain , light would come on ,seams like the fuel pump wouldn't run when light wouldn't come on , then it would start ! Sent the brain out because also the alternater wasn't charging . Installed the brain and it started in the bitter cold and was charging again .Now won't start , rpm gauge going crazy , sounds out of time , hoping crank sensor . This is a 1994 dodge ram v 10 as well !!

[@charlesmiller5078]

I know the word " Homework ", probably gives you a nice warm Fuzzy Feeling. But once this word is used, I get a really cold chill running from my head to my toes, and not much after hearing this dreaded word, Registers You should scroll the news, you know, so the rest of us will have something to do. Interesting Tho, I guess ?

[@gbowne1]

I'mona tell ya right now th' dog ate it

[@Adam-bw4lw]

nice work ivan and diagnoses a was watching previously "erickthepartswaperguy" i mean he is getting nuts.....

[@joem2745]

My V10 growls at me before I even put the key in.

[@pedrolriveranegron5178]

DID YOU SEE THE FUEL REMINDER LIGHT ? CHECK CAREFULLY AT 15: 50 TO 16:10 THEN AT 16:34 TIME

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

+pedro l rivera negron Yeah I asked the owner about it, he said the sending unit is intermittent and that it had 10 gallons of gas in it...so that means I could drive like 50 miles in this thing haha

[@pedrolriveranegron5178]

HA!!!! FOR ME ITS HAS SOME ELECTRICAL ISSUE.....THOSE 2 RELAYS CLICKING ALL THE TIME!! VERY SUSPICIOUS........

[@pedrolriveranegron5178]

WE'LL SEE WHAT SURGE IN PART TWO!!! YOU'RE THE BEST..MY FRIEND!!! KEEP WORKING ON IT!

[@777warhero]

+pedro l rivera negron Just have to ask. Did you turn caps lock off?

[@Clete88]

Moto, I don't have the schematics, but a buzzing relay demands some basic troubleshooting here.....examine the relay coil inputs.....with the scope.......if you have two buzzing relays, probe them on the same screen and look for a phase delay in the quickest time frame your scope will allow..

[@Clete88]

+Clete88 If you find a phase delay, check the INITIAL circuit for continuity issues.....the usual, voltage and ground... Sorry if I'm flooding your channel...I'm just held in suspense....I do this kind of work....just not on cars...and I'm fairly decent..

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

+Clete88 This is a very interesting theory! Reminds me of drawing Bode phase plots in electronics class... So which specific relay pins would you scope, and in what scenario might you expect a phase delay between them?

[@johnmckamy6398]

clean truck thumbs up

[@Phantomas2011]

Hi Ivan, love your style of diagnosing, of ALL your videos extremely informative! Just a quick question I have an 86 ford OBD1 EEC- IV system which doesn't communicate with any scanners so I can't see any of the perimeters, do you know if there's a module that can be connected to between the ECM and the scanner that maybe be able to read some or all of the perimeters? I doubt it but had to ask!!! What I do is back probe the sensor I'm checking at the ECM using my AES Wave uscope….. BTW I do have an old school snapon BT-2500 AKA the brick that I use to read codes and use the troubleshooting feature! Can u make a module that is able to pick up some or all of the perimeters, like fuel trims and other perimeters???? TnX Leor

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Unfortunately no live data on the dinosaur computer systems 😅

[@Phantomas2011]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics spasibo buddy 😀 I’ll keep suffering quietly 😅

[@terrancegrant1664]

That is a beast!

[@michaelstem5319]

I luv it hasn’t let me down since

[@williegillie5712]

Didn’t Chrysler have self test/ switch testing when you first connected to it in the earlier models

[@My1911goldcup]

Used to change points or a plug wire, now you need a $10k scanner. What cars has the most/least sensors?

[@Clete88]

To be honest, temperature issues like this suggest a transistor type issue...

[@prock3631]

I have a 95 Dodge ram 2500 V10 I'm just around replaced everything the air sensor I replace the the oxygen sensors in the exhaust I'm really not sure what else to replace or look for as my idling problem still exists it's running rich not as bad as it was since I replaced these two things I'm not sure where to go to next to check if anyone has any ideas or have had the same problem please get back to me for my next adventure other than that the truck runs well only at stop idle does it run rough and I yes I am running through some fuel as well

[@wysetech2000]

I have zero faith in under hood fuse boxes. I have seen so many with corrosion problems. Might be worth a peek.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

+wysetech2000 Is it because you drive a Chrysler? ;)

[@wysetech2000]

+motoYam82 Good point. {:-)

[@eddiemartinez265]

Hey ivan wheres eric? ha ha ha. Come on ivan your killing us we neeed to see the fix!

[@stuzman52]

Hey Ivan. How come you get all the interesting problems LOL? Good vid and I'm not going to speculate what the issue is as I've been wrong quite a few times. Keep up the good work!

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

+stuzman52 Word of mouth maybe...these weird cases just randomly show up...and there is no such thing as a wrong guess! I think you will enjoy the next two parts in this series, Terry, thanks for the comment!

[@stuzman52]

+motoYam82 Looking forward to what you find and stay warm up there...

[@johnmckamy6398]

don't got no gas in it , uh huh

[@SteveRobReviews]

Hi Ivan - rookie question, I don't see anybody checking grounds I believe pins 4&5 on obd2 or this obd1 at the DLC , why not ? Looks like an easy spot to get to first. Is this a dumb question. LOL

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

+Steve Rob Hey Steve! That's not a rookie question...that's a Premium question! Well do you mean for a no-comm issue? Sure, that would be a great place to start. In this case however, since the PCM was acting weird based on the loss of the Check Engine light, I had to verify grounds directly at the PCM (plus no OBDII connector on this beast lol) Take a look at the ground distribution for your Chevy Truck. You will find that DLC pins 4 and 5 are tied to different ground locations than those for the PCM, so you have to check all of them separately. Oh yeah, thanks for the Premium Limited Edition stickers!! Gotta figure out where to properly display them :)

[@SteveRobReviews]

+motoYam82 haha premium question, ok I'll take a look at my OEM factory schematics but I think dlc pin 4 is connected to the ECM pin 5 chassis ground. Yes I was wondering why I don't see any channels starting at the dlc grounds. Looks like I have some homework to do. I was going to send you a Loadpro but Eric wouldn't put the Amazon link up. Hey I tried buddy. Cheers

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Oh man if Eric puts the LoadPro in his Amazon store I'll fall off my chair!! But I want one for "testing" purposes sooner or later. Maybe the viewers can chip in a bit. I can promise you my review video will blow your mind Steve haha :)

[@SteveRobReviews]

+motoYam82 A little bird told me your dream will come true real soon. LOL

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Haha well my birthday is next month, so that would be very awesome.

[@DependableAutoTruck]

actually the V-10 is not considered a big block its more like the 5.9 magnum with 2 more cylinders. some parts will swap

[@philh9238]

also I think I seen close to the same thing on scannerdanner where those 2 relays clicked like that on a dodge caravavan. it was a bad cam sesnsor if I remember.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

+phil holbrook kzbin.info/www/bejne/jKPWemSueNSNbq8 Good call! That was a great case study by ScannerDanner. Dang I should have scoped the cam and crank signals on this truck!!!

[@philh9238]

guess ill get to see in part 2 what you did! it should be good

[@roadkill5333]

Ok, I'm gonna give my best guess. Ahhhhhh. Well let's see. Nope, no clue!! I got nothing here! But, who gives these vids a thumbs down, and don't reveal why? Absurd! Love the "C.S.I. Pine Hollow" comment!

[@rubengarcia6920]

Or a bad solder joint somewhere

[@davemaster001]

Truck running on empty? why don't customers keep gas in there cars, trucks?

[@michaelstem5319]

Bad fuel level sending unit had plenty of gas in it

[@lukehickory735]

What size lift

[@mmiller1188]

Ah, Chrysler electrical gremlins ...

[@brianmacmac1000]

Maybe it whant's to be a diesel,,it sees all it buddys starting up like that,,its just waiting for the glow plugs to light up,,you could just strap the big heater to the bottom (thats the glow plug) fixed.LOL .Really like fallowing along on your diagnostic journeys,,somehow i feel this is going to be a corrosion issue.

[@philh9238]

yea he replaced all the parts with quality pieces of junk

[@Clete88]

+phil holbrook I am getting the feeling that Dorman products aren'e the top pic....

[@Longtrailside]

How did you and Eric's bike race go? Did you get any video of it?

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

+Longtrailside No bike races yet...still cold and icy outside! But we better start training soon, right Eric?

[@Longtrailside]

Eric can't hear you, he's in a salad coma. (Viewers of the South Main Auto channel will get the refference.)

[@leebarnes655]

+Longtrailside lol, that rabbit food will do you in every time. ERIC - don't go to the light, come back !!

[@garyjohnson801]

Chrysler doesn't like aftermarket sensors

[@woodsga]

I hate how customers bring you vehicles with no fuel in them

[@caduceus33]

I think the problem is spooks!

[@davidhickey8235]

I'd prob start with putting gas in the truck...

[@joshmedlin976]

3329 unread emails? sounds like time to check them haha

[@chriscanty8214]

where do you get your wiring diagrams from?

[@steveallen5496]

+Chris Canty Looks like Alldata

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

+Chris Canty www.bbbind.com/free_tsb.html and AllData.com :)

[@cojones8518]

+motoYam82 www.wilsonautoelectric.com/tsb_database.html also have the same diagrams as BBB

[@leebarnes655]

That's great guys, but when I want to chase down where G104 ground actually can be found on the vehicle, it seems the line drawing has gone AWOL and is only to be found in the factory service manual. Missed it by THAT much !! Any suggestions are most welcome, TIA.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

+Lee Barnes Well yeah for ground and harness physical locations, the factory diagrams from AllData is my only source.

[@michaelstem5319]

Iam the owner and the fule level sending unit is bad had lots of gas in it

[@Reynaldo0617]

Nutela!!!!!

[@carlosdorantes9884]

the cow want to help

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

+Carlos Dorantes Donde esta la vaca?

[@nickatdallas]

It looks like some of these cars/trucks require a Priest instead of mechanic, spray some Holy Water or something this is definitely an evil spirit!

[@turtlezed]

Too many 'Part-1 and Part-2's' Ivan.......nail it one one video please mate......

[@josephtucci3666]

Ivan check out MAC TOOLS #L77080 socket may be of help No?

[@e.v.a.l.s]

BLow your fucking nose!

[@MyassesDragon]

8 liters? When gas goes back over $3, the cost of driving that beast must be expensive.

[@lawrencehogan7204]

I have a v10 in my excursion. I get about 8 in the city and 12 on the highway. And, mine is a 4x4 as well. I don't know about the Dodges, but my excursion is geared pretty low as well. The gas mileage sucks but she's a beast in the snow. Of course, I don't drive her that often but super reliable

[@Adam-bw4lw]

in europ whe pay around 3.50$ /galon after quick calculation/converting

[@RicardoPCGamer]

+lawrence hogan this dodge is an 8.0L v10 and your excursion has a 6.8L v10 so the dodge would probably do worse

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

+Ricardo Lupian Chevy big block 8.1 gets same/better fuel economy as the 6.0L ...go figure.

[@joshuayoungblood3580]

If I had those diagrams my genius would work much better

[@kyleloew432]

Fucking computers lol

[@arhashim78]

Hi what's the size of those tires, and what brand?