Collar Tie roof construction made easier

[@campbellsmith5484]

What a terrific channel Robin, thank you.

[@muzakhan6458]

Hey Robin, it was pleasure meeting you in person at the tools show, appreciate you so being humble and easily approachable, thank you. Learned so much from you just watching your videos and your it has helped enormously understanding the timber usage and calculations for my project. Wish I could spend more time 😀 Muza

[@ukconstruction]

It was great meeting you too!! thank you for supporting my channel and taking the time to come and chat with me!!

[@therabman_5606]

hopefully your clients know just what they are getting! Your some chippy been watching you for years mate keep the tips and tricks coming 👍🏻

[@PhillHills]

Great to see you attending the Screwfix Live event last weekend Robin, you looked like you were busy with a radio interview so didn't come over to say hi and show my appreciation of your awesome content.

[@ukconstruction]

Hi Phil, Next time it would be great meet!!

[@davetaylor4741]

I remember the days when you had to put ceiling collars in with bolts and dog collars. All before the days of cordless wrenches. It was a laborious job. And they had to be in before roof load.

[@ukconstruction]

Yes Dave we still do that from time to time!!!

[@chriss9251]

Love your work been watching your content for years picked up so many tips and tricks! any updates on the latch jig?

[@ukconstruction]

Coming soon!

[@samposton9101]

Beautiful work!

[@ukconstruction]

Thank you very much!

[@daves4026]

You didn’t rebate the collars at the ends on this job will that be a problem for the ceiling plasterboards?

[@ukconstruction]

Not with these lightweight hangers they are only about 1mm maximum thickness the plasterer will ride that out with his two coats of multifininsh

[@MrBez007]

Genuine question, do you not need your insulation flush with the under side of the rafters, then 25mm PIR board over the top ?

[@ukconstruction]

That's a cold roof where you do that, this is a warm roof design

[@MrBez007]

@@ukconstruction so does the additional pir go above the rafters ?

[@ukconstruction]

Yes there is a video on my channel from this install

[@kadzo1000]

Top job as usual Robin 👍 what's the depth of your rafters and span after installing the rollers?

[@ukconstruction]

175 and the clear span is no longer than about 3.6m its is TR26 grade and 450 centres max

[@itfc3]

is that just a first fix pasloade. and what nails and how do you fix the hangers with them. so much quicker than twist nails.

[@ukconstruction]

no its the dedicated PPN nailer from Paslode

[@eugenemullen4308]

Positive placement nailer(ppn)

[@LawrenceDaley-s2u]

It's interesting that you put the joist hangers after fitting the, for want of a better word, ceiling joists, doesn't that make them protrude into the plasterboard? And did you fix them with square round nails? I only ask because I'm not a carpenter or builder but a DIYer, I bet you hate those!, who's watched/studied many videos before I installed my roof trusses and associated roofing joists and I remember tirelessly hammering those strange looking nails, my builder mates have a pasgun but the only nails that I got from him were ringshank. The square round ones do the business, though.

[@ukconstruction]

Yes the square twist nails for metalwork are not nice nailing by hand!! I did many years like that before getting a proper nail. The nails are specifically designed for metalwork too!! as far as the hanger holding the plasterboard... it is way to thin to really make much difference. If we are using a heavy duty hanger then we would recess them

[@LawrenceDaley-s2u]

@ukconstruction Thank Robin, it's always good to know these things just in case I need them again!. The channel's great, always something interesting to learn, especially when you're working with wood 👍

[@harpoonlouis]

Try an air powered palm nailer for those.

[@erol4130]

How do u find the Milwaukee first fix nail gun? Got a new one recently and it hasn’t ever missed a beat or jammed

[@ukconstruction]

It's good!! Had no problem either

[@hasan10789]

My ppn gun mis-fires quite a lot any suggestions on what I can do? I’ve had it for a year and a half and used it 7-8 times

[@ukconstruction]

Sometimes the less its used the more it may misfire, after all its a small combustion engine, take out the gas between uses if your storing for a while, keep in a dry place away from excessive moisture etc sometimes the spark plug needs a wipe too

[@eugenemullen4308]

Bring it back I presume there's still a warranty?

[@eugenemullen4308]

Think i would have had the lattice truss designed 150mm less in height so collars could runn through in 1 length underneath and do away with those cup hangers

[@ukconstruction]

The collars do not have corresponding rafters due to dormer setting out etc, the luxury of the lattice beam to the sam level allows this to happen

[@RichieRich845]

👍

[@toscacomo]

I think the girder truss is unnecessary with the proper collar ties. Even a ridge beam only makes hanging the rafters easier, but it is not doing much.

[@ukconstruction]

The ridge lattice trusses replaces some hefty steel, this roof has many dormers and a change of direction that position the rafters so few fall opposite one another, the lattice trusses are vertical support for the rafters as the rafters are birds mouthed over the top as opposed to cut on the face, yes you can use a suitable collar in a roof where both sides are in line but still this is limited in timber design

[@Tosca-p6h]

​@@ukconstructionRight, thanks for your response, I presumed the rafters were inline.

[@dannyshennan7810]

I hate everything about pir insulation. From handling it to fitting it.

[@dannyshennan7810]

Even how it gives me static shocks when you leave it in the sun or whatever causes it

[@ironpirate8]

Yeah I agree, and the dust is vile! 😝 Unfortunately it's still the best option in many applications.

[@martinphillips7221]

it will be a shame to cover up such a sweet frameing job with plasterboard

[@georgecronin3592]

Why do you put what, You call collars, offset from the lattice truss ? Try tacking the ceiling !

[@ricos1497]

Trying to work out what you mean. Are you talking about the slight offset for the depth of the hangers? Hadn't considered that being an issue, but you could be right.

[@ukconstruction]

Because they meet where the rafters are on each side, these are positioned to suit the dormers and other setting out and this differs on both sides, the plasterboarding is a piece of cake

[@yolomc2]

timespam ? (like this 1:00)

[@eugenemullen4308]

Collar ties are in most cases structural (prevent roof spreading)they have to be attached to side of rafter so u can nail/bolt through... If collar is fixed to underside of rafters it has no shear strength as u can only fix up through the bottom and end grain will split when the dead load stress is placed on the roof(tiles,wind load, snow etc

[@georgecronin3592]

Robin, thanks for getting back to my comment. As a carpenter of over 40 years , I made a comment about why you seem think that collars can be put anywhere that suits. Collars are the base of the basic triangulation of roofing geomentry, not a simple addition. Your use of infill timbers, which you call collars do not do the prescribed physical structural integrity that collars are designed to do ! How do you think a ceiling can be tacked to offset ceiling joists ?

[@ukconstruction]

The Lattice truss is a beam that also connects the collar end in close proximity to one another, the collars are not for spread as the rafters are sitting on the lattice beam above by birds mouth these collars simply take roof loads from the tiles and shorten the clear rafter length, the roof is over engineered with deeper rafters than needed to suit insulation and service void on the warm side, These roofs are designed by some of the most sophisticated engineering modelling in the world of timber construction and yes for a traditional collar and tie roof the collar would need to be continuous and from corresponding rafters opposite one another hence another reason we design the roof structures to mitigate against the need for this allowing for total flexibility with regard to setting out breaks in the structure for dormer windows or roof windows etc, The ceiling boards are really no problem, we would start with a sheet straight down the centre if the roof support the odd end with some framing and the fill either side of that to the slopes, super simple we also use a thicker board such as 15mm and 2700mm in length again many people do not know this exists, Its all about thinking ahead and understanding the possibilities especially with modern timber tech and design

[@therabman_5606]

A collar tie can be anywhere in the top third of the rafter.

[@coilinotoole6124]

Very interesting. Usually the collars are in tension, but I presume on this case it I'd assumed they are either in compression, or neutral? Very interesting build.

[@yolomc2]

Thanks all for sharing your knowledge guys, this is great way to learn 👌

[@Stewart_Bell]

The collars in this case are going to be in compression opposing one another perpendicular about the lattice truss. The joists will be under tension and preventing [catastrophic] splay at wall plate level. That lattice truss is quite something. I'm curious about the decision to use that rather than attic trusses but perhaps that was due to the gable / valley arrangement. Gonna have to rewatch and concentrate more this time! Interesting this post is compelling us all to think; it's not like mr beast is it (mercifully)...

[@memyselfandeye1234]

OOooW a video that not an addvert. oops no hilti ad

[@ukconstruction]

What is your problem with me having to earn a living??

[@memyselfandeye1234]

@@ukconstruction thought you was a trades man not asalesman is all ...bye