Collector Vehicle Auctions Can Be Dangerous! - Obliterated VIN And Nobody Notices?

[@andrefrontain8626]

JDM vehicles do not have traditional VIN's.

[@UncleTonysGarage]

Agreed. BUT, that is the spot where the Japanese VIN is stamped, and it has clearly been ground away and restamped.

[@abefroman4953]

@@UncleTonysGarage Frame number. It was also missing the frame tube sticker that contains the build month/year and the engraved frame number.

[@NickTaylorRickPowers]

Every car has. Chassis number otherwise known as vin If it doesn't have one scrape paint from the area where it should be and you'll know why

[@shadowopsairman1583]

And most are being crushed

[@SMOBY44]

@@abefroman4953 My 1970 Yamaha didn't have a sticker on the steering head, just a stamped number. My 79 KZ1000 had the sticker. Not sure when that began, also not sure if a JDM machine would have had that sticker.

[@NeilLB7]

This bike raced the Black Ghost on the streets of Tokyo in the 70’s.

[@cameronboyce4695]

I honestly feel that the collector car auctions are hurting the world of vintage cars. They drive up prices, disperse junk, and saturate niche vehicles that were only popular with the respective enthusiasts.

[@antonchigurh981]

The inflated prices have everyone thinking their shit box is worth way more than it is. A guy in my town has a 68 charger rusted out with a trees growing through it and he thinks the rusted shell with no interior at all is worth 20k. Seriously.

[@1966oldsguy]

And the internet has only made it worse. Cars and trucks I used to buy for $1,000 or less are now over $10,000

[@tony7856]

I would say the internet has had a larger impact on prices, especially niche markets. It used to be that you could find a budget driver quality car locally for a reasonable price. Now with the internet that same car is marketed to the whole country as "rare" in hopes some guy on the other coast with deep pockets has to have it. But lets be honest, even in the 80's there were plenty of people trying to sell junk to each other.

[@justin1978]

It’s worth whatever the market is willing to pay. Internet just opened up that market to a broader range of buyers.

[@elmocotaco995]

Bring a trailer is a huge influence in high prices. Saw a Honda element with 16k miles sell for 40k wasn’t a museum piece either

[@JimmyMakingitwork]

I work at a shop a few miles from the Kissimmee Mecum auction and every year within a month or two we see dozens of junk vehicles from there. If you're spending anything over a thousand dollars make sure to bring someone knowledgeable with you who doesn't have starry eyes. We have literally had people teary eyed who though they had bought their dream car.

[@AtZero138]

Agreed.. been at a few here in California, the phrase Buyer beware, is a understatement, With the right amount of knowledge though, The never got finished etc, or half done,, with "good parts" aftermarket wise, thrown on, never tuned correctly etc,, QA1 suspension etc Cal-Traks, so on.. Sometimes one can score a car worth taking over ownership of, When I worked for Classic Industries some customers, the throw it together, sell it idea,, legit cost over 100k or over a bit, or under,, sell for 46k to 67k new owner scores,, I always told folks, those Wednesday Thursday car's, again if your Looking, could be the one.. Cheers from Huntington Beach CA 🇺🇸 Daily Driver 68 Dart Grandma special.. Driver level restored...not a show Car..

[@Digitalsharecropper]

I am at the edge of alligator alley and we get them too. These people drank wine and blew their retirement on the "dream car" and never even got under it or went for a drive in it. I really don't feel sorry for someone that spends their money in this way.

[@BenDover-kt2pe]

I work in shipping (The Big Boats) I've seen many Mecum auction vehicles being shipped over seas. A large percentage of them look ok 20 feet away, but when you get close to them, WOW! Putty & paint with extra overspray.. I can't believe they are even worth the cost of Shipping them.

[@AtZero138]

@@BenDover-kt2pe them guys on the phone the entire time,, bidding on mostly everything.. Heading to the Persian Gulf.. area..

[@adotintheshark4848]

@@AtZero138 "we lost interest, moved on to different things, rebuilt engine ran but doesn't right now", etc. etc.

[@patreilly6826]

At a recent Mecum auction the main high bidder was surprised that when he was going to win the item at 2/3 of the expected listed price someone started bidding against him. After the price had risen to just above the expected sale price the main guy decided that he was done and let it go to the other bidder. Two days later someone from Mecum contacted this guy and told him the high bidder had financial issues and would he be willing to honour his last bid. During the conversation the Mecum person admitted he did not want to buy the item. So that admission over the phone was these sleaze balls working for Mecum were bidding up the item’s themselves and when they were “Stuck” with it they were going to the auction losers to bail them out. I was looking at some of their auctions at this time and there is no way I would waste may money on a scam like this.

[@alfee9411]

Yes smells really bad

[@TheOriginalLugnuts]

Shill bidding happens more than you think. Usually they only bid it to close to reserve but it sounds like that one was a no-reserve or he thought he could get the other guy to pay more. It happens on BaT, eBay and other online auctions as well.

[@handytrucker63]

With every bid you have the right to say no and walk away. Auction people are professionals. If you are not a professional hire one that you trust and pay him a commission to help you.

[@raywagner8016]

I'm in British Columbia Canada. The entity that controls the registration of vehicles has always been incredibly paranoid about stolen vehicles. They made a recent change. When a vehicle is consigned to an auction house, the owner of a vehicle no longer owns the vehicle. The auction house becomes the owner via a "Contract to Auction". Now the auction house becomes liable for stolen goods.

[@susanhenderson2322]

Good to know, I had no idea, avoid auctions as much as possible

[@allhailinternalcombustion]

Sometimes I'm glad that I don't have fancy auction money, I only have somewhat crappy swap meet money.

[@coyboybc]

Me too

[@bored2323]

More money - more problems

[@elmocotaco995]

I watched a KZbinr buy 5 cars that were junk a few days before Mecums last auction and run them thru with zero inspection and knowing there were issues. Really changed my mind on ever going to a collector auction. Thanks for the info I’m looking for a car now and my eyes are wide open. Between this and the KZbinr certain changed my thoughts on buying thru an auction

[@todddenio3200]

Sounds like something gas monkey garbage does

[@cousinjohncarstuff4568]

The one that bought a Red Mercedes from a dealer auction and had it sent direct to Mecum?

[@elmocotaco995]

@@cousinjohncarstuff4568 yup and the wrx with the bad clutch. Corvette unseen, mustang with a whole in the top lol

[@AtZero138]

Been to two, Mecum auction.. working for my Bro, those early days are good, if you know what your looking for,, talking about the Wednesday Thursday car's, not the T.V one's, they allow you to buy a slot.. cost adjusted for when etc, the lot 123. 1,, etc... But the early day's, it's possible to fine the abandoned project or almost done, repo etc.. with Good parts, sometimes great parts thrown on... When I worked for Classic Industries I heard lots of good and bad stories,, some terrible one's of shops... If you ever go to look at a Classic Car, bring a Bro, I'll lay down crawl under to see as much as possible, if seller gets nervous hahaha 🤨..

[@al_dente4777]

@@todddenio3200 But, at least the Monkeys are honest about it, calling themselves monkeys

[@DragPakMerc]

Just sold a car through Barrett-Jackson. Before accepting the listing, they required a clear photo of the VIN tag. Then they do an in-person VIN inspection once the car is on site. Not necessarily foolproof, but more than enough to catch something like this.

[@shadowopsairman1583]

Should be checked before it's loaded on a trailer, and when it arrives, before it is sold and leaves the premise.

[@jeffalvich9434]

BJ has had their issues as well such as the Kindigit boyd Coddington hot rod..... which turned out to be a not BC car..... And they were told about this in advance of the auction...last minute... everyone just ignored it because of the names involved...imho of course

[@chuckschillingvideos]

Just a simple VIN tag examination isn't enough in many cases. Cars frequently have multiple VIN plates or engravings in different places on the chassis, body and firewall. You have to examine all of them.

[@edhughes6854]

Mecum does the same process. This one just slipped through. It happens and it has happened at Barrett Jackson in the past also.

[@nrakma]

The better auction houses hire retired auto theft cops and experts in certain makes of vehicles to protect themselves and their customers from fraud. Every car they take in for sale at their auction should be considered a Fraud until reasonably proved otherwise.

[@y2kxj]

$10 says the owner knew exactly what he was doing and hope a out of state owner would have bought it...

[@hughbarton5743]

I' d cover that bet. This whole thing has the aroma of two week old fish left in the trunk of your car. The seller's not still here? Well, gollee! I wonder if the state police in that jurisdiction will pursue this matter? Seems like a ready made grand larceny conviction.....

[@bob8776]

Probably not the first time the seller has pulled this scam before either.

[@al_dente4777]

@@bob8776 If he's continually getting away with it, it's only because the previous duped didn't point to the V.I.N. numbers printed into the paperwork and then say, "This is my bike, here. Not that one there"

[@NickTaylorRickPowers]

Isn't that basically the premise of an auction Hope some enthusiastic dope buys this shiny polished turd

[@richardprice5978]

wondering if it spent time in Utah,Nebraska or californium? as there was a bike i knowledge about i my grampa back 40 rusting away with a sketchy past ( and wrecked ) and yes my family has spent time in japan 🇯🇵 as service members airforce and navy so gramp's or CIA-family or navy-family member 🤔 would not have guessed 80k for it 9k~ in premiere shape junkyard fresh 2k~ usd mostly to keep the crusher's at bay and incentive for proper restoration

[@donsims1941]

I've been involved in these auctions as a bidder and a seller and All these cars are available on premises to be inspected. WHY someone would sit in the audience and bid money especially that kind of money unless they had already scrutinized the vehicle before they placed the first bid 🤦

[@UncleTonysGarage]

I'm sure the buyer looked over the bikes condition before bidding, but only bothered to check the VIN once he had the paperwork to check it against.

[@donsims1941]

@@UncleTonysGarage true , I guess you SHOULD be able to expect that the auction house has at least that much integrity. However sadly this doesn't seem to be the times we are living in.

[@dionrau5580]

I think they're more interested in setting highest bid records and look at the super shiny rare whatever mobile!!! Gets More Air time bigger advertising and Mo Money 💰💰💰, it's ALL about the hype.

[@justincooper5189]

One person to learn more about this from, is Wayne carini. He's someone who has been on TV, and he finds vehicles and goes to auctions and sells them there as well. He would probably be the best person to talk to about how this stuff goes.

[@AtZero138]

I've told folks, imagine a car show.. but you can just open up the car and sit in it, open the hood etc.. you could actually create a Job, being hired to look at Cars for paying customers,

[@y2kxj]

My question is how did it even make it to the auction block with out VIN inspection

[@UncleTonysGarage]

My point exactly

[@shadowopsairman1583]

Always an idiot

[@ldnwholesale8552]

I doubt it needs a VIN inspection. But Mecum should have done it themelves and refused it.

[@AtZero138]

The Bike thing is still newish.. Mecum being the one big co. Doing stand alone Bike auction.. When my Bro sold cars at Mecum I never seen them look at anything.. we told them what we had to sell etc.. what we wanted to say about it.. etc..

[@janesmith716]

You'd think the auction house would be culpable trying to sell any vehicle without a VIN, selling stolen property maybe.

[@als7594]

You should see the guy that restores Mopar's up in the Pacific North West found on a customers car, I think it's called Graveyard Cars. Imagine thinking you have a rare 440ci Six-Pak Cuda, only to be told it's a Barracuda that might have started out as a 318. Someone took the front clip and VIN numbers off a Cuda and attached it to a Barracuda from the firewall back. Then covered it up by welding up the holes for the vinyl roof and the Barracuda badges attachment holes on the rear panel. Funny thing happened when they acid dipped the body, all the flaws and evidence popped up.

[@jasont.1530]

I saw that episode!!!! It was crazy!

[@Glibzer]

Look up mopars5150

[@EarlG-r4r]

This was done all the time years ago there’s dozens of Shelbys out there that are rebuilt on standard mustang bodies with all the inner fender and ID numbers just re-welded on and blend it in.

[@terryschnereger8531]

I saw this episode.

[@ryanmuir6338]

Isn't that Jim Root's car? The shop is in Springfield Oregon

[@michaellehmann2803]

I have zero trust in Mecum. One of my customers has a car he bought from them. Mecum listed it as a 69 Chevelle SS 454 (my service writer found the old listing). On top the car looks great, other than some gaudy aftermarket wheels. Pop the hood and it was obviously a factory AC car but the AC was ripped out, and it has a Holley intake and carb and chrome aftermarket valve covers. Ok, someone ripped out the AC and put some performance parts on it, right? Well go up in the air with it and it all becomes clear. The car has a TH350 trans and a 10-bolt rear. That’s not right for a big block car! There’s an electric fuel pump poorly wired in. Go up front and we find out the reason for the electric fuel pump is because the 454 is out of a 90s truck, and doesn’t have the provision for the mechanical pump. They didn’t even bother to get the right oil pan, they just bashed in the truck pan so it would clear the crossmember, leaving the sump of the pan as the lowest point on the car. Look in behind the fender well, and the car was green, and you can see the bondo coming through where they filled in the holes for the “Malibu” badge before taping on the “SS454” badge. So basically this guy paid $50k for what he thought was a nice factory big block Chevelle, and what he got was a clapped out small block Malibu with a tired old junkyard truck motor swapped in.

[@repete2362]

no 454 until 1970

[@todddenio3200]

That sucks. But the guy should have realized the car was questionable and had been modified just from the listed info stating that it was a 69 454SS. They didn't build any such car. The biggest engine you could get in a 69 was a 427

[@michaellehmann2803]

Just did a Google image search, and you’re right, the car is a 70, not a 69.

[@todddenio3200]

​@@repete2362exactly. The buyer should have known from the listing that car had been modified

[@ripvanrevs]

My 80 Trans Am has a 454 in it. I would have MUCH rather had that beast of a 301 turbo it came out of the factory with!

[@jamesmartin-lb6br]

Those auctions are noting more than a way to scam idiots with more money than they ought to have.

[@pauljones2031]

yup. Plus these idiots who pay outrageous amounts for cars are creating a false cieling of value that won't hold true. And then you get all the idiots with the same car sitting in a field for 30 years and think it's worth that too.

[@worldhello1234]

Since when you decide how much money someone should have? Are you really that jealous?

[@pauljones2031]

It's not jealousy but dumbfounded that people who have too much don't know it's value @@worldhello1234

[@pauljones2031]

plus it seems to be that people with too much money enjoy rubbing it in the face of those with less.

[@lasskinn474]

it's less stupid than trying to act like a sealed copy of zelda for nes is 900k. (games had an auction house bubble recently where the appraiser and auction house colluded in trying to get people to 100x pricing from 3 years before that, included fake wash sales etc..)

[@RonnieWaynesGarage]

I sold a classic car to a guy and forgot to take my Classic plate off before selling the car. He drove it for a few months and took it to Mecum and they sold the sold. The new buyer somehow ended up getting my classic plate on the car and ran tolls for a year. I tried to find the guy and Mecum would not help me out. I told them they illegally gave someone my plates and they basically said oh well, sorry. I had to contact the police department and report my plate stolen. Expensive lesson learned.

[@robs1852]

The guy had money to burn at mecum but then has to evade tolls using your plate

[@claudeladow2334]

Total accident on Chevy nova in Pa. Car towed to body shop. Tag ended up in hands of a real scumbag. Took years of parking fines in a town 2hrs. away to resolve. Guard those tags!!!

[@karlbishop7481]

​@@claudeladow2334 In California the tags remain with the car. Gotta make sure the release of liability is filled out and sent into the DMV.

[@cuzz63]

@@karlbishop7481 Oklahoma used to be that way...the toll roads converted to Plate-pay and they changed the law so we are supposed to keep our plates when we sell the car, some people forget and get billed. Ironically you have 30 days to get a new plate but if you didnt buy from a dealer you dont have a temp plate and the cops will stop you every time.

[@totalyep]

He didn’t forget. He wanted to skip doing the title transfer.

[@horatiohooligan1706]

As a Jersey guy I know about buying used motorcycle parts at swap meets from Englishtown to Atco and everywhere in between. If you're paying $100 for a used frame don't ask no questions you know what's up. Paying $1000 for the same frame you want legit documents and paperwork.

[@jackwillson8099]

Your right on the money lots of shady kats in NJ lol

[@MrTheHillfolk]

​@@jackwillson8099 Add in the Tri-state area ✌️

[@bobbybieln853]

​@@jackwillson8099 Yea I seen your kind before ,eat pain like candy , but you got to be durable,and most ain't

[@jackwillson8099]

@bobbybieln853 watch out for them black widow Fear throughout the land

[@mikalthies8691]

My brother has been to both. Barrett & Macum. Said at least 80% of the cars are junk. Bodies are horrendous, paint jobs are sub par. Bondo buckets is what he called them. If you pay attention when watching on tv. You can see how bad some of these cars are. It’s become a game when we watch the auctions on tv. It’s very entertaining.

[@carportchronicles1943]

I have had a couple vintage bikes I have restored. One I brought from California to Washington and another that hadn’t been licensed since 1980, so it wasn’t in the state computer system. Both had to go to the State Patrol inspection station to verify the VINs. Even though I knew they were good, I still sweated through the inspection because if they found anything they didn’t like I could have lost them.

[@EricaMTB]

Last year Goodwood auctioned what they claimed was the second ever Land Rover. The only parts that were car 2 were the id plate and the engine. Different chassis (with different number), body, axles. Many people told them it wasn't car 2 during the auction, and they played dumb and continued with the auction.

[@MostlyBuicks]

I think the auction house should vet titles and VINs before they are allowed to auction them off. Otherwise I would render THEM accomplices to fraud.

[@moparpollack6242]

Supposedly it was judged by experts and was an award winning bike. Last auto auction I went to a nissan truck that sold for $21,000 plus premium couldn't leave the parking lot because of a bad transmission. makes zero sense to buy at a collector car auction.

[@chuckschillingvideos]

Is it not possible that the bike "judged by experts" is not the actual bike sold at the auction? That the bike which sold at auction is actually a ringer and the real bike is somewhere else?

[@lasskinn474]

@@chuckschillingvideos it's possible of course. maybe they just say it was judged by experts.. that's not that uncommon of a con thing, you build confidence by saying that there's other people who think it's great!

[@claudeladow2334]

Wondered why they hand push them thru😂

[@patrickfagan8117]

I bought a 77 F150 at a farm auction that had the jamb sticker and door tag with non matching vin's. The title didn't match either one. I refused the truck when I squared up with the clerk. I was polite and explained the title wasn't legit, etc. The auctioneer called me the next day, screamed at me and barred me from his sales. Bottom line, no matter where, when, how always check your numbers. Even when your new car title arrives in the mail.

[@dieseltechjb]

That’s because the vin number on a 73-79 ford truck is on the right front frame rail 😂 the driver door tag and jam sticker are meaningless. It was probably the right vin to the frame and was cab swapped.

[@patrickfagan8117]

True, but if I was pulled over for something, in Illinois it would be impounded etc.

[@HermanMunster-o2j]

I gave up on Meccum after the ghost charger story

[@tigertim20]

what was that story? I didnt hear about any controversy?

[@HermanMunster-o2j]

@@tigertim20 The black charger from Chicago sold over million dollars wasn't worth $30k Plus they sold an $80k motorcycle and the VIN was clearly ground off...SMH

[@davep5647]

1970 hemi challenger from Detroit...it was all original...worth at least 10x 30k.

[@garybishop4030]

Was that the original Black Ghost Challenger?

[@artbrookey3468]

@@garybishop4030 Yes, not a Charger.

[@73ac39]

I attended a very well known auction once. Just walking around looking at what was heading to the block was enough for me to never trust an auction. They helped the hobby but hurt the hobby as well.

[@ant4812]

Just watched that myself a few days back. I have no idea how close you're allowed to get to those bikes before the auction, but I'm amazed that no-one noticed. On a bike like that, that's the first thing I'd look at if I was thinking of buying it.

[@mobobo218]

In Kansas if you purchase a vehicle out of state you have to got to highway patrol for a VIN check to get it registered so the buy would have had it impounded on the spot.

[@RonBarracuda]

Yes Sir. And, in Oklahoma as well.

[@Jodyrides]

friend of mine bought a black Trans Am from a car show in Pittsburgh civic arena about 20 years ago. It had a very special roofline change, it had webbing and a rear window like a Corvette… it had lots of chrome under the hood, big tires, and fancy wheels, Recaro seats,.. it was pretty and for sale.. $10,000. My buddy arranged financing, and when the show was over days later, I transferred the title, and he gave them the cash. when you pick the car up, it kept stalling at every stop sign in red light.. it was burning, very rich, black fuel just pouring out practically of the exhaust pipes he tried to move the seat back. Those Recaro seats were held down to the rails by zip ties.. None of the Soundsystem was connected to anything.. The antenna was not plugged in, it did have power, because it lit up, but the power didn’t go out to any speakers. We need to turn the steering wheel. The tires rubbed and actually damaged the body in the front when he went over bumps… he took the car to a shop where they had to work on the car for almost a week to make everything work.. I had to buy new tires and wheels, because the ones that were on the car were way way too big.. thousands of dollars later, he got the car back. They had just bolted any carburetor to the manifold without ever setting it up. because the car was on display at a custom car show inside the stadium, he could not even test, drive it before he bought it..

[@antonchigurh981]

I remember on of your vids where you were looking at a red 73 duster that turned out to parts from 3 different dusters. I would never buy a vehicle without someone knowledgeable to look at it. The emotions and excitement run high and you need a unbiased person with no cognitive bias in it to give you a clear answer.

[@megalomotors]

Uncle T keep us sane!

[@UncleTonysGarage]

Thank you!

[@chuckschillingvideos]

I've heard of cars being sold with as many as four different VINs on various parts of the frame/body. None of this sort of thing seems to have been an issue prior to the explosion in demand for 60's and 70's muscle cars and the entry of countless shoddy restoration shops that just sprang up out of the ether.

[@hasletjoe5984]

As a motorcycle guy, Mecum does have a process for a titled vehicle to be entered in their sale. You have to send a photo of the frame with number and the matching clear title. Title has to be delivered to them when the vehicle goes into their possession. This is a seller trying some shenanigan's to get the maximum return on their sale. Criminal, yes. Someone at Mecum will be fired is my guess. As you see a lot of off road bikes, no title, no proof. Bill of sale only. Buyer beware. There were more issues with other sales as well. You have to be alert out there. As the magazine article said once "of the original 300 made, there are over 500 racing today" !

[@platinumuschannel]

Mecum is claiming that this is a misrepresentation of the events. Allegedly the seller had the frame powder coated; the auctioneers requested that the frame be sanded or ground where the VIN is.

[@billjenkins1416]

I would like to see the outcome of these high dollar auctions if they stopped serving alcohol….

[@RonBarracuda]

The vehicles are on display for days before the auction. I think they’re available for inspection starting Monday. If you’re purchasing a car that Tuesday or Wednesday, better hurry on validating what you want to purchase. The high dollar cars are sold on Friday and Saturday. Plenty of time to inspect the vehicle. If you’re spending the big bucks, there are qualified inspectors you can higher. I went to Barrett-Jackson way back in 2005; I had a great time! No, I didn’t purchase a vehicle. I was in the Air Force and, we’ll, we don’t get paid enough to buy those kinds of cars.

[@petebusch9069]

Everything I look at today is some kind of scam pushing me towards living like Amish people. We are living in really sad times where everything is nothing more than a money grab.

[@tabbott429]

Anybody that spends 85K on that bike ......more money than brains comes to mind.

[@brocluno01]

I disagree. In order for the bidding to get that high there had to be other players in the bidding pool. So we know there are others who think it's that valuable too. If legit and that pristine, it would be one of maybe two in the country. Maybe one of one ... If it were actually that nice and legit the value will climb from there.

[@carlatamanczyk3891]

True fact... no UJM classic bikes are worth more than 5 to 6 grand. The collector world has gone nuts.

[@sll-tt6bj]

​@@carlatamanczyk3891you don't know what you're talking about

[@coyboybc]

Makes you wonder how some of these idiots earn that money before they blow it for junk

[@oveidasinclair982]

especially on one of those 50 year old rice rockets

[@kurtvanluven9351]

Thank God I purchased my Firebird from a friend of my dad. I am the second owner, and it may never be "perfect" but it is not a collection of rust held together with BONDO!

[@u121921]

When you watch the original Gone in 60 Seconds you begin to doubt any 60s or 70s collector vehicle is what it claims to be . Ford never stamped engines or transmissions , door tags were easily swapped but at least they stamped the unit bodies on the right and left aprons. GM anyone can machine the engine and trans pads and stamp their own numbers . Mopars just watch the movie .

[@watzonda2b]

Nice new pad, UT ...congrats!

[@UncleTonysGarage]

Thank you!

[@sampsonramm6630]

It's even worse for older Harleys, as no VINs were frame stamped for the older ones. If I remember correctly, up until the early 70's, the VIN was only stamped on the motor case and NOT the frame. Way back when I bought an old 1942 "45" that had no papers and only a hand written bill of sale, I "registered" the motor case in my name.

[@johnkelly6942]

About 20 years ago I pieced together a completely stock 1957 Harley Davidson “HydraGlide” panhead. Not ONE SINGLE PART came from the same place. I ended up selling it and this person did an absolutely gorgeous, factory correct restoration. By the time that bike made it to Necum it was described as “restored from a completely original, found in a barn” motorcycle. Whoever bought it did not get what they thought it was.

[@gvxclassics]

Mecum is only in it for money. They gave a car of mine 38 seconds on the block for $1000. They didn't like my reserve and wanted me to sell it at a massive loss. I wouldn't drop the reserve, so, NEXT. There were bids, but they didn't record them on the wall and they told me Sorry, no bids. They screw anyone who walks in the door for the hype.

[@outlawbillionairez9780]

Yakuza was doing a big business shipping bikes out of Japan. Maybe owning a Mob Bike increases it's value?

[@al_dente4777]

Shipping out Mob limousines is even better business, given that the trunks of these vehicles are large enough to hold disposal secrets

[@joshhoman]

The number being ground down like that is a good one that the bike was stolen.

[@jamesmisener3006]

Auctions by nature are a risky business for all involved. There is all types of scams being run at auctions of all catagories of items. Having a reputable auction house is one of the ways the big auction house have grown like Barret Jackson, Hemmings, etc. Mecum has been caught with their guard and pants down on this one. I wonder who lost here, the seller or Mecum? P.S. Most Honda bikes built in Japan back in the 80s had vin tags riveted to the header tube. I remember a lot of bikes had them stamped too like HD, Suzuki, Kawasaki. I have a 85 Honda VT1100 Built in Japan here in the shop now with a vin tag. Cheers 🇨🇦

[@bams50]

Mecum canceled the sale and made the seller take the bike back.

[@domingodeanda6113]

When I had my smog inspection, brake & lamp licences, I ran into many miss matched vin numbers.

[@littlestinker9716]

It's everywhere. The fancy car auctions are filled with Frankencars. Mismatched numbers. Parts from many different years. Wrong paint and interior colors. Stay far away.

[@arlenvanderhoff6546]

I never trusted those auctions.

[@ercost60]

My neighbor put together a halfass '70 Nova. From watching Barrett Jackson Auctions, he was convinced the car was worth $25K. He declined many IMO reasonable offers ($10-15K) and waited 2 years. Damned if some Japanese guy didn't eventually pay him $25K and ship it to Japan, where it sold for even more.

[@jimbutler9076]

Good information one podcast pointed out the flaws on a 1968 charger a 150 thousand a 3 on scale to 10 pc of junk

[@oldbloke204]

The issue will likely be where do you draw the line. This one was obvious but how obvious does it have to be before people can come back at them? Maybe if you're well heeled, or stupid, enough to be spending this sort of money, or much more, you should be going to the auction and paying someone in the know to go over the vehicle that you're thinking of buying. The litany of rusted out crap boxes that look nice would indicate it's necessary.

[@georgeallen4495]

"They" didn't notice this because "they" are only focused on the GREEN! Why would a person spend that kind of money on something and THEN look it over good? I always do that before I buy something.

[@NBSV1]

Oooo Shiny! Must have! Whoever bought it probably really thought they could hold it for a couple of years and sell it for a profit.

[@georgeallen4495]

@@NBSV1 Exactly!

[@joshuakhaos4451]

remember, A fool and his money are easily separated as the saying goes

[@GasMaskPaintballer]

New shop's looking good man!

[@UncleTonysGarage]

Thank you!

[@4flatsgarage224]

I was at BJ in AZ this year and a number of Mopars had the dash tag missing and AZ state issued VINs that had just been assigned the morning the car was going across the block. I also so dash tags that did not match partial VINs on the radiator support. One of the Cuda's that sold had a fender tag on it that was from a 4 door Dodge Coronet. Never, ever just bid online without putting your eyes on the car.

[@RecklessEnterainment]

My old bosses dad bought a 70 hemi cuda from a mecum auction and the car looked decent but had shrunk paint showing bondo in the fender and it had zero clamps on the coolant hoses, it ran like complete garbage and was obviously not tuned in, and the steering gear box was so loose it would move a couple inches when you turned

[@cj92345]

Wondering if it was ground off in customs so it could not be registered? Once ground off it’s just becomes a flower pot ...

[@4dogsgaming]

It's possible to get a portable X-ray and scan the area where the VIN is to possibly see if anything is there. Also depending on if it supposed to be all original or a resto there should be case numbers stamped underneath and possibly a stamped number underneath the triple tree.

[@ldnwholesale8552]

Only sometimes. I once bought an engine from a wreckers and someone else used the VIN and engine number from said wrecked vehicle. Luckily the dealer knew the seller,, he had bought the car privately and checked the numbers. Interesting as mine was already registed with the same engine no. X ray, depends how deep the original number was. I once bought a core 350Chev engine that had came in from the US. Engine no on the deck was differert to the engine number on the pn rail.

[@bluesmoke8714]

second serial # on the engine

[@al_dente4777]

I've only seen one number stamped into a frame. Police departments can resurrect ground-off numbers, by looking through a pistol's casting using an untrasound method. Stamping a number leaves traces well into the casting, similar to a shock wave compressing air. I doubt that such a method would work on a bike's fork tube though, because of how thin that metal was to begin with

[@alleyoop1234]

The footage on Cycle Drag shows a row of barely visible numbers that were ground on, so the numbers are there !

[@alleyoop1234]

@@bluesmoke8714 I do not know about Kawasaki's, but I know Honda's engine numbers do NOT match.

[@destroytheilluminati770]

had a family friend that had bought a Chevelle from Mecum, had it shipped to Wisconsin and upon getting it home they put it on a lift and went through everything on the Chevelle, the car was represented at the auction as a rust free-untouched car with a repaint a couple years prior, discovered it was far from rust free, they butchered the car with poorly replaced panels/patches and expanding foam in a couple places, he paid nearly 60,000 for this car and as it sits its been appraised at 17,500-20,000, i saw the car and i think the appraiser was being generous, The seller sure must have been laughing all the way to the bank that day

[@johnsmith7676]

Has long been said that "There's one born every minute"... PT Barnum, perhaps. But it's clear these days there's likely a hundred born every minute.

[@bams50]

100% the buyer's fault for buying online. Other than a well known highly documented car, I cannot understand why anybody would do it.

[@sydneychase780]

I have a 74 honda same deal, that was ground off like mine. I had to jump through burning hoops of fire with a corncob in my butt to fix it! Unfortunately many stories like this since the whole thing went nuts in the 90s. As a restorative metal guy i have refused to help build fake cars specific to the auction, bunch of crooks. $85000 is the tell here!😮

[@nashvillecop1]

Dana Mecum’s lead headed son is overdue for an awakening in dealing some of the counterfeit vehicles they ramrod through their auctions!

[@NomenClature-o8s]

His Son’s brain is a cheeseburger.

[@1991MN1]

TONY! Your shop is looking good. Congrats Brother Man. 🎉

[@SAE-Restorations]

Ive seen a lot if bad vehicles come from auctions and ive made a good amount of money fixing them for the the buyers. My personal opinion is that there are many unscrupulous sellers that specifically target auction houses because they provide a barrier between the buyer and seller.

[@jonly1993]

I saw that video as well. My first thought was what goes on during Mecum’s check in process? Do they not match the vin to the seller’s consignment form?

[@RacerX6270]

I've sold bikes at Mecum and you need to send a picture of the stamped vin number and they check them when you drop off the bike. They missed this one for sure!

[@ogles824]

I grew up around the car business; my dad was a car dealer, and I spent some time at the local dealer auctions and saw some pretty shoddy stuff. Later on in life I was my dad’s vehicle screener inspector and they put a lot of auction bought cars and trucks in front of me that were scary/shady to say the least. I got so good at catching stuff that some wholesalers wouldn’t shop us vehicles anymore. I’ve had a few friends get burned on collectors cars with some of the same issues I saw dealing with normal cars. The worst was a friend that bought 2nd gen fully restored SS396 Chevelle that was supposed to be all numbers matching. It spun a rod bearing right after he got it and he put it in the shop to get it repaired and when they tore in to it, it had a mid 70’s to early 80’s 454 in it, not the original 396/402 that should have been there. The collector car market definitely has the same risk as the regular car market.

[@ScarlettFire341]

My guess is MANY of the Crazy High Bids by the bidder to wash dirty cash - the auction has no vetting of the money origin. Jus Sayin

[@NBSV1]

That’s likely a big part of the stupid money stuff. A big reason is also people treating it as an investment so people are willing to spend whatever thinking the market is still going up so they can make money. Used to be only the really special version in really nice shape was worth big money. Now people are thinking anything “vintage” is big money.

[@ScarlettFire341]

@@NBSV1 really an ego thing - you can buy a beautiful 70 Riviera like new for like 30 G's but a shitty 70 GTO for $40 G's

[@Joe4USMC]

Tony! Great lighting in the new shop.

[@UncleTonysGarage]

Thank you!

[@jasonshackelford9074]

I just sold a vehicle at Mecum Las Vegas a few months ago they have very high standards as far as vin inspections go. My vehicle had the vin checked at least twice before they accepted my vehicle and then a separate inspection by very qualified individuals upon check in. They had guides on all sorts of vehicles for identifying proper vin markings. As for the other guys video I watched his prior video on his way to Mecum and he was already talking down about his prior experience at Mecum. In my opinion I think other dude was trying to make Mecum look bad. Also the seller doe not get a check right away it takes 4-6 weeks for the seller to get paid.

[@Drafted256]

Caveat emptor! The buyer was lucky to bail out of the scam.

[@TrifonMeskoures]

Hi Tony. Love your channel. Aside from what you said the bike in the photo is a Z1 900 4cylinder 4 stroke. The H1 was a 500 3 cylinder 2 stroke and the H2 was a 750 3 cylinder 2 stroke. All 3 bikes were sold here in the USA. I had a 72 H2. Great bike.

[@UncleTonysGarage]

No, the bike in the photo is a Z2...nothing at all to do with the H series triples

[@vehicleIDspecialists]

You are absolutely correct ref the obliterated VIN info, we would love to get our hands on that bike so we could determine the true identity of it. Very surprised MECUM did not catch this prior to the auction.

[@Jodyrides]

in the car dealer business. When the dealer gets a car that is older than five years old. He does not want that sitting on his lot for sale for more than 30 days. That car will go to a dump lot, one of those places that used to be a gas station or a donut shop on the corner just outside of town, and if it doesn’t sell there, it goes to an auction… if the car turns out to have a problem with it that is traded in, the dealer will sometimes send it straight to the auction. He does not want it, affiliated with his business, giving his dealership a bad name… many times you will hear the announcers on television stating that a car coming across the block has $100,000 invested in the build, and the car ends up selling for $30,000.. early 1990s -A buddy of mine that had just gotten out of the Navy went to a car show in Pittsburgh at the Civic Arena custom car show, these are not new cars, these are builds.. many of them are for sale while they are on display with all the lights and the girls in the bikinis and trophies standing around the car my friend ended up buying a Pontiac Trans Am that had a custom rear window with webbing like a Corvette, coming down to the deck. All black, black interior, except for the centers on the Recaro seats. It had the latest stereo system that the front comes off of the unit to make it look like it’s not an expensive unit, it had big speakers in the trunk and in the rear deck and doors, it had big wheels with big tires. Under the hood, there was lots and lots of chrome and stainless hoses. my buddy fell in love with the car, he arranged for financing, and at the end of the show he bought the car. He got the paperwork transferred over and got the insurance, and was given the keys. he soon learned that the car would not turn very tight corners because the tires were rubbing. The car kept stalling. It had a brand new carburetor on it that was never set up. He tried the radio, nothing worked… he tried, adjusting the seat forward a little bit, but he soon discovered that the Ricardo seats were zip tied to the floor rails, and could not be moved.. he never had a chance to drive the car because it was on display in the custom car show.. so he took the car to a local garage he trusted. It cost him over $2600 to get that car working, all the stereo hooked up all the speakers hooked up, the sheets mounted to adjustable rails/tracks, the correct size wheels, and correct size tires, that was the biggest expense. some of the speakers were blown they were just for show.. The car was an automatic, and although the car would move, the mechanic said that the transmission is not in great shape.. there was evidence that the car had been rolled, that was the reason for the new style roof, which had T tops, and that fancy rear window with webbing like a Corvette.. A lot of times those are the kind of cars you will be fooled by at an auction

[@sadtimes6002]

Yeah you would think the auction would at least check the vin for legal reasons, hopefully this will get them to doing that we'll see

[@shadowopsairman1583]

It takes an idiot to cause problems

[@flinch622]

Yeah, and its not fun getting jammed up. I can picture one potential conversation... I bid on this (serial 12345) - where's my bike? [Right there sir] This number isn't on that bike -so where's my bike? Find it! [Oh, shit].

[@repete2362]

even at the farm auctions they say if they have a good title .sent to you after the check clears.

[@jamessharp9790]

As you know , I’m into vintage Mx bikes. The latest Mecum auction was a bloodbath for sellers . A friend of mine has done well the past 15 years, but lost his ass this year. Meanwhile, the Barrett Jackson car auction in Az set records.

[@aerparts]

I didn't watch, was it just mx stuff that was soft or all bikes?

[@commandertopgun]

Wow, Scary stuff. I am happy you bring this to the fire, calling out the Auction house, if the have no legal procedures, & this Auction House is well known, WTH. Great video & topic, thanks for sharing, I will be so vigilant in the future at Auctions

[@douglasfehler553]

By buddy was sitting Ina Cafe eating a sandwich and there was a harley I believe a wide glide and four guys came up and with 2 hockey sticks they put the sticks through the wheels and picked the bike up and loaded into big van and drove off less than 5 min. Can happen to anyone.

[@robertcostello8876]

They use to steal bikes at bike week at Daytona years ago.park a bike outside a bar or restaurant on a side street and a van pull up and the bike is gone.

[@MrDuran9000]

Thank you for all that YOU do! ALL THE WAY SIR!!

[@zilksmooth]

I’ve mentioned this before but I’ll say it again. If you want something nice and fast, the new stuff is better in every way. A used current Gen Chally can be had off of Carvana with a bewildering array of drivetrains, with a return policy, 100 day warranty and remainder of factory warranty as well. If you want nice and old, stick to non-performance models like Ford LTDs, Old 88s, Bucks, etc. Nobody is going to pull scams with those, as there’s no room (they only go for less $15K anyhow). Barnfind has cool older full size stuff all the time.

[@MrFescue]

whats a chally?

[@JamesSterling]

@@MrFescue Dodge Challenger

[@krisconkey8165]

The auction has to eat it, they are responsible for verification of anything they sell

[@chuckschillingvideos]

Actually they don't. They wouldn't be in business for very long if they had to eat the cost of every disputed sale. Mecum can readily claw back whatever payments were made to that seller.

[@krisconkey8165]

@@chuckschillingvideos if they misrepresent it, yes they are responsible

[@chuckschillingvideos]

@@krisconkey8165 It's clear you know nothing whatsoever about how these auctions work.

[@bstevermer9293]

Good luck with that! They not writing checks they take them .

[@minnesotatomcat]

I’ve bought things at auctions before, nothing like mecum, but unless you can look things over yourself before the auction I would be very leery of what you’re actually getting. Those auctioneers don’t know and they will tell you anything to get bids.

[@exponentmantissa5598]

You can usually still pull the serial number even if it had has been ground off. What happens is when the number is stamped it squishes the metal underneath and there is a special liquid you can put on it and then you usually see the original VIN.

[@davidcrumpler5714]

This bike was not available in the states because it didn’t meet our emissions standards or some type of safety requirement. It was assumed I imagine that it would be a display or show piece. So any type of identifiable number would have been removed before it left Japan. The 75 might have been required to get a shipping order. I have a race car that’s stamped in one place “not legal for street use” and another place it says “competition only”. It has a series number but no vin. I’ve tried many years ago to get it inspected and have a state police assigned number but no luck.

[@MoeLarrycurly1]

Recently I bought an older shovelhead on eBay and it turned out to be stolen out of Michigan I live in Indiana... Now I'm fighting eBay to get my money back I hope I do get my money back cuz I certainly would like a project that started retirement and I wanted something to do this winter.. I was so hyped up about getting something to work on and then when the police check the bike out bam it's not legal it's stolen... I mean it's just like I always was pretty believing in people and so forth but I just don't know it just made made my heart sink when the police said hey it's stolen we're going to pick this up and take it away.. well I might be shot up but I'm not shut down I'm still looking for a project shovelhead hopefully there I can find something that is legal that is not stolen 👍👍👍👍🏍️

[@lincolnaddict]

Uncle Tony, i’ve been a long time subscriber from my personal channel, but I appreciate you covering this topic… I do listing reviews for Lincoln’s from all of the auction places, including bring a trailer and someone I know sold his convertible a couple years ago in South Florida… The guy who bought it realized the car was pretty much a basket case and the “builder” really put together a crappy car… Little did the guy realize when he took it to Barrett Jackson the van was not checking out correctly it was incorrect… It didn’t match a bill or something to that effect… Barrett Jackson agreed to take the car back to the facility and sort out the VIN issue, which I thought was commendable of them… I can’t believe the person didn’t catch it before he even sold it to the guy that then took it to Barrett Jackson… But bottom line like you have covered in the past. Some of these auctions are literally buyer beware because you just can’t trust people and there’s too many shady “builders” out there….

[@russellaustin4988]

I have a Mecum bought 77 F150 that came to me right from the auction with none of the wiring or controls hooked up under the dash. The under side was power washed and painted black, over an inch of mud. The engine had more dirt in the oil pan than the truck had on the bottom. Just a horrible nightmare. Frame, body and vin didn't match. with Fords worthless identification process I still don't know what actual year, or model it is.

[@flinch622]

It is an odd thing. After maybe a quick peek at interior or an open hood, the bulk of bidders are pricing a paint job and the writeup offered by the auction.... and hoping for the rest to be true. Anyway, I hate top dollar car auctions. Normally auctions are best at common things: grain, animals on the hoof, repos, etc. For collectibles of any kind, high end auctions are ego trips... not business decisions or fair prices. I note the bulk of Leno's collection was acquired by word of mouth/direct contact purchases without a middleman.

[@dionrau5580]

Exactly 💯

[@al_dente4777]

@JeffreyErb-rf2dn The economy is always great for J. Leno, no matter what

[@michaelschwartz6834]

The only satisfaction you get buying from an auction. Is knowing you paid more for a car or motorcycle then anybody else!!!

[@mikebrown8065]

Saw a similar situation on a video at Barrett Jackson in Scottsdale, AZ. A car showed up for auction. During the authentification of the vehicle, through Barrett Jackson, there were a couple of discrepancies. They also found that the VIN didn't match any of the "hidden" VIN stampings on the body. Obviously a "rebodied" vehicle. The Arizona State Police are always on site for the authentification of vehicles. They removed the VIN tag from the car, Assigned it a new VIN, and the owner had to sell it as either a "restomod" or a "tribute" car. Buyer be aware!!😎🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲

[@atunis5804]

Excellent advice, as always

[@grizzlylongbows5742]

I personally inspected a 40 Ford that had been bought at BJ, same deal, the VIN had been ground off and re stamped, the local VIN people happened to be good friends of the new owner and moved it right through the licensing process.

[@fastfew2]

I used to build and race z1 and kz1000 Kawasaki the matching vin number is also stamped in the engine case. ..

[@Chief_5]

I saw that video too, it was insane that they thought they could sell that as original with a partial VIN!

[@hobman]

I've never heard Mecum (Mee-cum) pronounced Meck-um before.....lol. Whatever right...? Yeah, that really sucks they don't check shit out before they go to sell it. Great vid!

[@skeptic3332]

Why would Mecum take a bike with the S/N filed off?

[@shadowopsairman1583]

1 idiot not doing their job

[@janesmith716]

Good question, sounds illegal as hell to me.

[@kevinpatrick8788]

they are greedy fuckers with no integrity .

[@Nordic_Mechanic]

*gouged off Fixed it for you

[@skeptic3332]

@@Nordic_Mechanic ???

[@ShaighJosephson]

People should sue them for this BS...

[@mariozamprogno1654]

Brother, I saw the episode that you’re talking about on cycle drags. I was shocked that the links that people will go to to rip you off absolutely disgraceful, but the auction house did the right thing I’m a car nut and a bike nut all rolled into one great respect for your channel man.

[@jamesomahoney2181]

I seen that.. like you said.. plain sight..these auctions are so greedy.. and with a spot light item... hope people think twice before bidding on line/phone..

[@mechaman7818]

Bidder beware! You're in for a scare! Cue the piano.

[@tommymac3029]

I see motorcycles, especially dirt bikes, for sale without valid titles. Usually, they are way cheaper than what they should be. Seller claims to have "lost the title". I'm guessing they are likely stolen. I always check VINs when buying a vehicle.

[@321CatboxWA]

I run across no title often . Haven't had any deemed stolen yet . People get lazy and they don't store the title in a safe place . Or moved alot ect . Not a big deal

[@rogerw3818]

Off road motorcycles do not have a title issued, as they are not street legal. They come with a "Manufacture's Statement of Origin".

[@tommymac3029]

@@rogerw3818 where I live, every new dirt bike I've bought- a Suzuki, Yamaha and a KTM-all had titles. It's required to prove ownership.

[@silent1967]

It jumped the border illegally, invited by fjb. It now has an apartment, food, medical care and a drivers license that the taxpayers paid for.

[@mikew6765]

I love watching the Mecum and Barrett Jackson auctions but have always wondered how much access the bidders have to inspect a car before making an offer. Do they provide a lift to get under the cars?