COLLEEN BALLINGER QUEERBAITED (+Teen Wolf, Merlin)

[@brigidandair]

Hello! I just wanted to weigh in on my thoughts about Merlin. It is one of my very favorite shows and has been since it first started airing, but it's never struck me as queerbaiting. I found this video while trying to find different opinions on the subject of whether Merlin was queerbaiting or not, as it genuinely surprised me that people thought it was not only an example, but a prominent one in recent shows. Now, I definitely have always been aware of the strong fandom ships. The relationship between Arthur and Merlin wouldn't be hard to nudge into a romantic one, had the showrunners wanted to do so, but I don't think that makes it queerbaiting on its own. The showrunners, the actors, and the storylines made it very clear that what they were going for the entire time was a platonic, but close and caring, relationship, and I think they nailed that perfectly. It's the kind of friendship we see fairly often between platonic female characters, but just never get at all with men on screen. The problem, I believe, is very heavily reliant on the different kinds of coding that have been built into film since its inception. One of the other videos on this topic that I watched while mulling this over stated that if you imagine that the two people on screen were a heterosexual couple, and you'd think it was a romantic scene, then it's queerbaiting, but I'm not sure that's true at all. It is so seldom that you get a piece of media that *doesn't* have some semblance of a romantic relationship that we've been conditioned our whole lives to look for one. This causes issues in real life situations, as well, along with making it hard for masc and femme presenting people to have platonic relationships without someone assuming that they're attracted to each other. So when you get to a scene that feels coded to be romantic between two characters that you know are not so, you have to take a step back and actually assess the scene beyond the initial impression. What is it about the scene that gives that impression? Why do I see it as romantic instead of platonic? What do I know about these characters and their motivations that would lend weight to either? What ways might I be misinterpreting this? Because I think that's the crux of the issue with Merlin. As mentioned before, through the entire run of the show, in every behind the scenes talk with the actors and showrunners about the characters, they talked about trying to make the relationship between them a meaningful, compassionate, and close friendship. Maybe part of the fact that I always got exactly that out of it is because I actually did look into the extras behind the show. I also concede that there's definite merit in the position that intent only goes so far, but I don't think that's the sole factor. The characters never express a sexual or romantic interest in each other, and the way they act around/with their canonical love interests is presented quite differently. In that scene you specifically mentioned, Merlin is driven by the prophetical foreknowledge that Arthur absolutely, 100%, is the catalyst for the building of a new future for everyone, so his assertion that no one will ever be like Arthur, though it appears as queerbait-y when taken out of context, makes perfect sense. So then we need to look at what is coded to be platonic in male relationships on screen. Typically, you have men that joke with each other, hardly ever touch in any way, and who don't show vulnerability often if at all to their male friends. When it happens, it's usually shown with a restrained inner turmoil or an outburst of violence, and asking said friend what they should do. If the character needs to really have a breakdown, more often than not they deal with it alone or it's a woman that helps them through it, and more often than not with the latter that woman is either a family member or the love interest. Men are seldom allowed depictions of feelings or actions that are seen as feminine, especially ones that are not framed like a joke or responded to with misogynistic derision (i.e calling them a sissy or girl or weak). So when we have a show that allows its male characters to confide in each other and rely on each other for moral support, it makes it easier to read into that behavior as femininity (which has long been code for gay in media) or romantic. So you add all of these things together in the context of Merlin, and you've got a show that is trying to portray a genuinely caring platonic relationship between two men who constantly have to put their lives in each other's hands, one of which has the knowledge that the entire future of an oppressed people hinges directly on him taking care of and protecting the other, and you've got a relationship that would feel flat and disingenuous if presented in the normal "platonic male friends" coding of film. Merlin and Arthur's closeness makes perfect sense for the characters, and I actually always truly loved that they were portrayed as unapologetically as they were, because it could have also easily been a situation where, when trying to walk the line of friendship vs. coding precedence, they had fallen back onto a repeated use of "no homo" moments, instead of letting the characters just be real people who are secure with their friendship and personal wants/needs. Merlin challenges the impression in media that you can't care about a person enough to put all of their needs above yours *and show it* without being attracted to them, and it does it by having both sides of the pair feel that way towards each other. We see it grow from a sense of duty for both into a genuine friendship, shifting the intent of each from a need to a want, and that's one of the things I love most about it.Coding is very important in media, but I think it's shortsighted to rely on it entirely and uncritically. One of the conclusions I've come to along the way while exploring this is that a viewer needs to be able to examine whether something is actually coding or whether it is the show breaking coding stereotypes. Context is paramount, and I think that it is overlooked in a lot of cases regarding queerbaiting. Anyway, I'm so so sorry that I wrote basically an entire essay, but my thoughts just kept going. I know it's not an amazing piece of writing by any means, and gosh, I really don't have the energy to proofread it at this point, but I hope it at is at least interesting to get someone else's view (even if our views match up pretty well). Thank you for the video!

[@brigidandair]

@CopsHateMoe Oh gosh, thank you for the pinned comment! I think I messed up, though, because after rereading it when you liked/pinned it, I edited out some minor typos, and I think KZbin unpinned it. But thank you for reading through it and thinking it was interesting enough to pin!

[@kaims2567]

I think it’s misogynistic because sissy and weak are words used to describe women detrimentally, however you are right the act of saying this to a man IS misandry, but the notion of believing women are like that is misogyny.

[@brigidandair]

@@kaims2567 Huh. I had thought I replied to that person, but I must not have. Thank you for doing so. The only thing I would correct is that aiming misogyny at men is not misandry. Misandry would be proclaiming women superior than other genders, that they were inferior to women, not using derogatory terms against women against men. That would still be misogyny driving those comments and the meaning behind them. That doesn't mean it is okay to do at all, but it is the power structure/what negatives it perpetuates, not whom it is aimed at, that determines whether it is misogyny, misandry, or a different type of discrimination. Women are just as capable of contributing to misogyny as men. There is also the arguments, which I think have a lot of merit, to be made that it can't be either misogyny or misandry if it isn't a societal and systemic issue, because it is the overall power structure of a society that gives either power. It can be discrimination for sure, no matter what, if you claim any gender superior to another, but if there's no societal power behind it, it becomes discrimination on an individual level. So a woman that claims that women are inherently better than men would be making a misandristic statement, but that wouldn't make misandry a pervasive issue, as misogyny remains in most places in the world.

[@jeanmichelurbano2673]

I haven't watched the show yet so I can't really add anything specific to the discussion but I still want to thank you for this! I especially liked the part where you talked about healthy male friendships not being portrayed enough on screen. I understand the want and need for the representation of our community, I really do. We deserve to have our stories told and our existence seen, but I also think that emphasis on platonic relationships is not something we see often in media, and if that's what the creators were going for then I applaud them for that! Friendships can be just as fulfilling as romantic relationships and I feel like we'd benefit a lot from realizing this. I definitely think that this is also a step in helping people destroy the idea of toxic masculinity by showing men genuinely just care for each other and not have it be seen as shameful or a laughing stock. If you made it this far, thank you so much for reading. English is not my first language so I apologize if I made mistakes. Please feel free to (kindly) educate me on this matter! I'd love to hear your thoughts and hopefully gain a new perspective :)) Thank you and I hope you have a great day!

[@brigidandair]

@@jeanmichelurbano2673 Thank you! I completely agree with you; platonic relationships are severely undervalued in our society, and that needs to change. And you don't need to worry, your English is excellent and you communicated perfectly!

[@pestilence654]

Queerbaiting is just disrespectful. Straight people using sexualities for profit is so disgusting. It's like we're treated like animals.

[@rat3905]

And not even animals should be treated like this

[@summerchild_]

The major problem with the Veronica and Betty kiss is that they put it in the trailer for the show, with no context and no Cheryl calling then out.

[@okre8793]

I think the most outright disrespectful queerbaiting was Sherlock's. the amount of straight people who literally told me I was crazy for thinking something "gay" was happening on that show is insane. 😂

[@seraphim.42]

I feel like it was going good in the end bc they're literally raising a kid together, but yeah, they had good chemistry and I wish something had happened between them

[@bubbeline8217]

omg yes, bruh. I was so ubbsessed with that and so dissapointed when I found out there was no confirmation or would never come more episodes. I still watch it for the gay stuff

[@pinotnoir4234]

oof Sherlock ruined me

[@ApatheticBananas]

@@seraphim.42 I hadn’t even THOUGHT about the fact they are literally raising a child. It’s just. It’s so gay. And the writers really went and bullied gay people for seeing gay after writing it gay as a “joke”.

[@tss5320]

@@ApatheticBananas right?? like, they constantly bring attention to it by making all these 'everyone thinks we're a gay couple' jokes and write them as if they had feelings for each other, and there definitely was chemistry there, and then they just insult us and throw it in our faces because how dare we try and interpret the subtext correctly? god it makes my blood boil how many years i wasted over that stupid show as a teenager

[@kierstenburtz8442]

From what I understand, Riverdale has done the LGBT+ community dirty on several levels! They also harmed the asexual community by taking a beautiful asexual character from the Archie comics and taking away his aceness because... I dunno! "Sex sells"?

[@ashH-B]

Ikr the ace community is so under represented

[@kierstenburtz8442]

@karina Jughead

[@devinaghose9318]

jughead was aro-ace, so it harmed ace and ARO community

[@kierstenburtz8442]

@@devinaghose9318 wow! I didn't know that! I didn't read the comics, I just heard that he was ace in the comics and people were upset that he wasn't in the show!

[@devinaghose9318]

@@kierstenburtz8442 no worries- he was aro-ace in some- and ace/demiromantic, in some point is they did the ace/aro community so bad- if they had made jughead straight instead of gay/bisexual or anything else(more heard of or common) people would've thrown hands, but aro-ace community doesn't get the same treatment :/

[@evie5508]

I ship Merlin and Arthur but it was never what the writers intended to have happen and they never fed into it like how teen wolf did I know that not everyone ships Merlin and Arthur and I’m fine with that I honestly just did not really like Gwen and Arthur together I just thought they where very bland and stereotypical prince falls in love with maiden and goes against fathers wishes and marries her

[@CopsHateMoe]

Blue Stars BIG AGREE, Gwen and Arthur were cute,, but eh they were quite predictable together haha. Merlin and Arthur were far more fun to watch together

[@jayjayheinz8552]

Fun fact, the writers were actually considering it at one point but they decided against it because it was too far from the legend and the bbc probably wouldn’t have allowed it. Bradley and Colin just seemed to act very In love with each other in every scene without even meaning to, guess that happens after like five years of acting together ahah

[@ceceromano5857]

@@jayjayheinz8552 which is so frustrating because the entire idea of the show was to make it a very different spoof on the actual legends which is why merlin and arthur are the same age😩 Colin and Bradley had literally the best chemistry on screen and it would have just made so much sense to have them together🥺

[@miles3325]

I agree that what Teen Wolf did really sucked, cause I honestly really shipped Stiles and Derek together and through out the show, they were kinda just throwing hints that Stiles might be bisexual(like with some scenes with Danny in it) but they never said he was. I disliked the fact that they made Dylan O'Brien and Tyler Hoechlin ask for votes to be Teen Choice Awards because there are better ways to do it than queerbaiting. I really enjoyed the video and I think that these topics aren't spoken too much about and I'm really happy that you talked about it!

[@CopsHateMoe]

Exactly! It's such a shame, because they really didn't need to resort to shady tactics like that in order to get viewers - the show was already popular on it's own merit. And thank you, I definitely think this is something that needs to be talked about more, so I'm glad you liked the video :)

[@adrianoines521]

I've been rewatching the show and it honestly just makes me low-key mad at Jeff Davis. I feel kinda bad for dylan and Tyler because they are both such talented actors and could have played a couple so well but nooooo we had to pair them up with 2 awesome ladies that they had nowhere near as much chemistry with.

[@thiccgoblin1043]

They litteraly said on one of the q&a s that Stiles might/would come out as bisexual in one of the seasons lol. Looking back at it its just quite plain what they were doing

[@hummingbird885]

As i young bi it would have been sooo nice to see the representation but the character he was shipped with was another problem since when we met stiles and derek the age difference was a problem and it still is problematic since when we meet the stiles is 15/16 and derek is at least 19 (they say that derek had graduated couple years before they came to the high school which could make him like 20) i understand that they had chemistry but that always bugged me cause because that stigma(that they are p*do) has always been around the lgbtq community since this show started in early 2000. it would have been nice to find another character for him to get with(i mean i love stydia but still) for the representation.

[@hummingbird885]

also, yes they could have done it in 6th season(when we could safely assume that stiles was 18) but then we would be left with the same problem i have with stydia where they dragged it all over the show and when it does actually happen dylan had to leave the show for maze runner so we don’t get really see the relationship at all

[@threecheersforsweetcheesew3231]

Didn’t she also do that one video about “being a witch for a day” where she pretty much called witchcraft satanic and then made fun of it with her friend (the video was deleted but reactions to it exist and it’s pretty bad)

[@woonderingpilgrim]

Oh did she? That's just plain disrespect!

[@Blazequine]

that account and the picture

[@threecheersforsweetcheesew3231]

@@Blazequine Thank you 😼😼

[@monicaraybrandt]

yeah, i fucking hate it when people make a mockery of other religions and cultures like that, especially ones like wicca, which are already so stigmatized. most witches i've met don't even believe in satan, so the notion that witchcraft is equivalent to satanism is, frankly, really dumb.

[@tuopsy]

@@monicaraybrandt wait,,, witches are REAL?? 😳

[@alexisgrey3633]

Colleen has done this before, she made out like she was telling us a story about telling her mum she was bi or something, but then said 'I was telling my mum..........that I was straight and dating a boy'.

[@TheCrazyFreak]

Merlin has a dear place in my heart as well (I looooved that show when it was airing) and I shipped Merthur with a passion, but I never saw it as queerbaiting. You already explained it well with the diagram (and mentioning the fact that we need to normalize men showing affection to each other without it being romantic/gay).

[@nechma13]

I've hated Colleen for so long and always been scared to say something so thank you for saying this

[@danielconnor8516]

I used to be a fan of Colleen when I was like 14 for some reason. So seeing her being like this and sending her underwear to a teenager makes me so angry lmao.

[@babygoose8716]

“Why is this gay shit on my tv” anyone who says that has serious issues. I’ll never understand why those types of people are so upset over what a complete stranger does in their bedroom or who they love when it has ZERO impact on their life. The saddest part is that most of them are like that because of RELIGION. They’ve been brainwashed to hate and judge complete strangers.

[@0rangeeige199]

Facts, I'm sick of having to give them the benefit of the doubt and respect their religion when all they do is use it as an excuse to hate on others.

[@bi_cycle]

I know this was published before the supernatural finale, but I don't think any case will beat that. Holy shit.

[@strawberry_sapphic5007]

I thought my friend had watched the last season and I was leading up to my thoughts about what happened. She was like, “I haven’t gotten there yet so let’s not talk about it. Omg, I can’t wait to see where they go.” In my mind I was like, “Oh, hon.”

[@candleconsumers]

wait what happened? I didn't finish it because I was so fed up with it?

[@bi_cycle]

They got gay then went to hell

[@candleconsumers]

@@bi_cycle oh- wonderful/s

[@miratarnish6316]

That Teen Wolf scene literally looks like it was a coming out scene that was badly cut to censor it. It looks incompetent

[@connornorris8304]

Very interesting to hear about the different shows that have used Queerbaiting as ways of advertising to a different audience. Great video!

[@CopsHateMoe]

Ay thanks Connor!

[@elenanojkovic2554]

That is personally my biggest issue. If two characters I percieve as gay or bi or whatever don't end up together, fine. As long as nobody tries to use that as s bait or imply HEAVILY that there will be some LGBTQIA+ stuff in the show. So if the show has let's say two female friends and everyone who Works on the show is Like 'yeah they are friends, they are not attracted at each other', but I end up shipping them, well that's on me. I know full well that if you filmed me and MY friends and put that on TV someone would be like 'oh such a cute ship'. And meanwhile we're both like 'ew...no...it would feel Like kissing a cousin'. I am aware of coding but friendships and romantic relationships do overlap-and I personally know some people who are platonic friends yet are more affectionate the some couples I know. But if you advertise your show to seem more gay, if you make TV spots with previously mentioned friends and put some romantic music or imply Like 'yeah, character A is going to have a happy ending with...well I can't say who but you'll see' and said character A has been blushing around character B the whole season and then suddenly character B is moving to the other continent, or worse, dies and character A is suddenly with some random character C they barely know....yeah, I'll be pissed. And honestly, I would probably be even if the characters were straight.

[@Kace_Darbouze-Omolade]

Before Riverdale aired they said Jughead was asexual but they never went through with it.

[@jadenlynch5575]

In the comic books he was. They straight-washed him

[@mimiminus7679]

When I think of two gay characters that arnt spicificly called gay that I think are alright is sheriff blubs and deputy durland from gravity falls. The creator of the show couldn't come out right they were gay because Disney wouldn't have liked it and wouldnt want them in the show.

[@ninarances9074]

I actually didn't know Blubs and Durland were technically gay, until I read about it. I understand why Alex didn't state that they're gay, because Disney wants to keep stuff family friendly or something.

[@mimiminus7679]

@@ninarances9074 yeah they wanted to be "family friendly" but when it comes to straight relationship there ok. But i do remember some seen in the show not being family friendly. Like the taxidermy animal heads bleeding blood, but I forget what the episode is called but I wouldn't say that's family friendly but Disney aloud that, but not a gay couple? Just is strange to me that they appear to be more ok with blood then a gay relationship.

[@ninarances9074]

@@mimiminus7679 Northwest Mansion Mystery is the episode. I have a feeling Disney allowed blood, because they think it's easier for parents to explain to it to their kids, than sexuality. And, of course, there are people out there who will say that kids are still too young to know about sexuality and they might regret it in the future, because it's connected to love, which is a complex topic, according to my friend. But I think putting really good representations on shows would help people, who are still thinking about their sexuality.

[@jessweetman4630]

So glad to hear I can keep watching my favourite tv show (Merlin)

[@CopsHateMoe]

Jess Weetman hahaha yesss we LOVE Merlin

[@somethingsomethinglastname9206]

I think Merlin and Arthur together in a romantic relationship would have been a much more interesting story, than Arthur and Gwen (who I think had a lot more chemistry with Lancelot) who were rather bland and predictable. The whole magic being banned aspect already had a very metaphorically gay ring to it, especially in the way they talk about being magic, magic corrupting your soul, etc. The show in itself was kind of gay in that way. The subtext between Merlin and Arthur was very homoerotic and often seemed more gay than straight (at least to me). If Merlin or Arthur had been female, no one would have doubted that they were a couple. I do believe that there should be more representation of healthy friendships between guys, but I don't believe Merthur should have stayed as "only" friends. Officially making them a gay couple doesn't have to mean they aren't friends anymore. That's another concept that I have seen portrayed in medias, even with straight couples, where they are friends at first and have really fun interactions on screen, but once they get together, they turn into those default couple types (where one gets really jealous or they only fight all the time, etc.), it's so strange, they seem to completely erase the previous relationship to "make space" for a new one. Basically, friends turning into lovers, doesn't have to mean they aren't friends anymore. (It shouldn't mean at least) In conclusion: Merlin and Arthur are best friends (soulmates even) who are absolutely romantically in love with each other. SPOILER ALERT: Arthur dying in Merlin's arms asking him to just hold him, was hella gay and romantic af.

[@devinaghose9318]

yo yo didnt the director later say that merlin and Arthur's relationship was supposed to be based on a romantic one- like they meant it that way but never showed it because of the audience backlash.

[@raepan2797]

EXACTLY GOD

[@user-es7ui5mc1m]

This might be a weird compliment but the way you speak is so nice to listen to? Like your speed and intonation and accent, it's really calm but not boring!

[@carolinea6769]

I'm trying to write a fic that revolves around a romance between two essentially ace characters, and I've been struggling with portraying the relationship as distinctly romantic and not just platonic (this is especially difficult since I'm specifically writing the character from whose perspective the story is told to straight-up not experience physical or aesthetic attraction- expressions of such often do the heavy lifting of telegraphing romantic intention, but aren't necessarily romantic in and of themselves). Anyway, as someone who has thought a lot about the nuance between asexual romance and intimate platonic friendship, I was a little wary to see your venn diagram, but it actually made me realize that the only discernable difference for the viewer/audience/reader is intent! And so it's my job as an author to make my characters' intentions clear. Granted, I put the additional limitation on myself that I was forbidding my characters from flat-out saying "I love you" or "I'm attracted to you" or anything that explicit (i mean overt, lol, not explicit as in vulgar). Given all these limitations, I still think it's entirely possible for me to employ literary devices and tropes to create a romantic subtext, as long as I put enough care into conveying my characters' intent. As off-topic as it seems, your video actually helped me with a writing block I've been having, so thx! (More on-topic to queerbating, I agree with you about your thoughts on Merlin! The whole show predicates on the relationship between Arthur and Merlin, so their closeness wasn't merely included to draw in a queer audience.)

[@Linkurz]

Riverdale was even worse because they used that scene in their trailers out of context to make it seem like they were going to have an actual relationship between Betty and Veronica

[@sleepymunk3775]

Dude I’ve hated her since day 1. Deeply.

[@dyonisiaarts5086]

Moe, Merlin was my childhood as well, I loved it so much! I personally never saw Arthur and Merlin as a physically engaged couple, but I was enamored with their relationship. I'm ace, so only recently I realized oh wow, people actually want something more from a relationship, uh... - but for me what they had was perfect, it was something very deep and where the lines were blurred... I think it's fine both to see them as friends or as soul mates, it depends on the viewer :3 In my opinion it's something in between

[@LaughOutRandom]

Hey about your diagram, i think it's also important to distinguish romantic and sexual attraction, I know it's simplified but as a romantic asexual, it makes me uncomfortable whenever romantic attraction and sexual attraction are equated! But apart from that, queerbating is very important to talk about regardless of the type of attraction youre discussing. I just think it's important to make that distinction :'//

[@bubbeline8217]

I used to be like so hoping that styles would come out and he was like my fave character because of many reasons (one bieng that he had adhd like me), and it made me feel like i had someone like me that i loved. I mean the scene in the locker room where he litterly asked a gay guy if he would really have sex with him, and in so many episodes seemed so interested in if other guys found him attractive.. how is that not gay? I really thought he was bi, and I bet he is but they will just never say it bc he's a main character. I do still love the show, and will watch it again bc of the other gay characters who are confirmed (but they are not main characters and are not seen so often, or atleast not their life.) and tbh the reason I started watching riverdale was bc of that kiss.

[@sofiaaisa9349]

moes the only one who can pull off this kind of sweater bruh they look so cool :')

[@saigegibson9295]

I'm really glad you brought this up! I haven't seen a lot of people talking about queerbaiting and I think people should discuss it more. I've never watched teen wolf before but the thing they did to get more votes for the thing (forgive me, I can't really remember what they wanted votes for) just made me really angry. I've seen queerbaiting a lot in media and I think, like i said before, it needs to be addressed. then maybe it won't be that much of a problem anymore (or it could go the opposite direction and people will do it more just to get attention, but that's less likely than the problem dying down). I think colleen ballinger, while she was in the wrong, made a mistake. she said in her apology that the character miranda sings is supposed to make fun of idiots and that's probably what she was doing. that said, I still believe that what she did was wrong and she shouldn't have done that. anyway, sorry for my little ramble. great video! it was very informative (I especially liked the venn diagram). hope you're having a nice day, bye for now! :))

[@CopsHateMoe]

Ayy thanks so much! Hehe I’m glad you liked my venn diagram, (I was pretty proud of that even though it was a bit dumb) And oh god the way that teen wolf so unsubtly used queerbaiting to try and get more votes is actually worrying because it shows they didn’t see anything wrong with it at all? Like with Colleen I think they simply saw it as a joke - and that’s a pretty big problem ! As you say I think queerbaiting needs to be discussed more, because it’s pretty damaging and I don’t see enough people calling it out!

[@thegoodfaithflowy]

i love the section where moe is just going "no homo"

[@butterflybrenda6558]

Very informative video! Happened across it while trying to find videos on the latest tea on Colleen since she's in another scandal now.

[@CopsHateMoe]

Brenda Proctor ah thank you!

[@natinthehat7700]

In the og script of Merlin, they did actually have some sort of romantic interaction in the last episode, but took it out. Arthur actually tells Merlin that he loves him right before he dies, it isn’t very noticeable but they pulled a supernatural on us.

[@sparksfly5877]

Better than SPN 😬 They really do be playing everyone 😔

[@ren-w]

Honestly I am just so glad to see another Merlin fan out there! It was my whole childhood as well; I don't have anything to add to your already wonderfully comprehensive video, but it's not often that I find another Merlin fan and I wanted to say hello!

[@kittystarr3036]

On the tv show f.r.i.e.n.ds, there were lots of "hints" towards Chandler being gay (don't know if anyone had watched it before). But people pointed it out and he denied it. This was way back in the 90's I think, when gay stuff wasn't so accepted, but not sure if this was queer baiting (sorry not sure if it's one word or two?) or if they're trying to offend lgbtq+ people or queer people,, not sure I could be completely wrong,, not sure how amazing of an example that was just putting it out there. By the way I love how openly you talk about situations, I 100% agree and I think it's really cool how you talk about things like this. These are the things people rly need to discuss and it never happens

[@ella6441]

moe cuddling the homies :))

[@kiwi9381]

Omg I love Merlin too and the bromance between Merlin and Arthur was everything

[@Jay_555_Maroon]

omg that jumper is FIRE i want it so much

[@zunisilverwolf]

An example of normalizing a 'Bromance', in semi-modern film (2007), I enjoyed was: When Seth and Evan (played by Jonah Hill and Michael Cera) explained their platonic love for one another, towards the end of the film. They go as far as saying, they don't understand why they cannot say it to one another daily and, they're not embarrassed by it. We need more examples of platonic love in friendships in modern society. It's sad that our society still embeds this theory that men cannot be anything other than masculine and showing any emotion is weak.

[@finleycmacalpine2473]

Voltron tho

[@Raccoon-gy6vc]

I love this video, more pulls out this neat vent diagram they clearly put like way too much effort in and they just ahhhhhh I love the vent diagram

[@RhoadesLessTraveled]

The Romance Vs. Bromance diagram was perfect. It's so true that the line is very thin between both. Merlin was one of my favourite shows growing up too and I definitely fell hard for the Merlin/Arthur ship. I agree that it's not queerbaiting though. They just have the best bromance.

[@riverisenby556]

Ok but when I found your channel my first thought was: they look like merlin's sibling lol AND NOW HERE THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT HIM

[@RB-vo4gi]

Teen Wolf is like Supernatural in my mind. I shipped Sterek (like I shipped Destiel) before I ever watched the show and wholeheartedly expected them to get together by the end. They played me hard core.

[@ace.of.space.]

unrelated but in this video you look like Merlin and Arthur's child

[@frankparent463]

A bit off topic but not really is when brands use "their support for queer people" during pride month (June (August here in Canada)) but then fck all the rest of the year. Like thanks for acknowledging us *ONE* month a year. Wouldn't want to support us *TOO* much, eh? Personally, that's how I see it.

[@Dummie501]

11:30 In this house we kiss our homies goodnight 😘💕

[@MARIAFERNANDA-mo1eq]

you are right there are shows that includes LGBT only for money or like to be more famous and they don't know what means include LGBT in a show , its means, represent to a group of people (mayority teens) i can give you an example, in Mecico there is a serie that is call: my family have more family and tell the story of a boy (temo) that have 17 that declarate to another boy ( aristoles) , he said no ,then the days pass and he discover that he in reallity he is gay and he declarate to the other boy ( temo) and they become to aristemo from aris and temo actually they are representantion for a lot of young people but the thing is there where speculations that the producer the father of the boy that represent aristoles only wants to put this theme to make more money and to top the producer made a tour with the songs of the tv show like a representation of LGBT comunity ( actually only one song that represent comunity (that is call brave love listen it its such a good song listen it please) and not all the songs like the producer what to notice but you know...)

[@CopsHateMoe]

Mafer xd oh yeah, that’s really interesting - thanks for sharing that! Queerbaiting it’s definitely a big problem, I think the only way we are going to change it, is if we start a conversation!

[@MARIAFERNANDA-mo1eq]

@@CopsHateMoe Yes i'm agree with you , but most of the people or producer that make queerbating don't want to talk they don't want to addmid that they have a mistake and they continue doing and doing

[@thebigmeatball4630]

Moe I love you so much thank you for your channel. As shameful as it is to admit, I used to be really enbyphobic. Your channel + other wonderful trans youtubers have helped me understand trans topics and such. I truly thank you from the bottom of my heart for helping me understand trans identities more. ❤️❤️❤️

[@bruhkent6895]

I have to tell you that Miranda Sings is supposed to be a character for children. She has concerts/shows and the majority of attendees are children and their parents. This is why I don’t think it was a ploy to get more views. However I do think it was based in ignorance on colleens part. I also think she probably thinks that it was ok because her editor, Kory, is gay. So that makes me think that since he likely gave her the “that’s ok” she probably didn’t know any better. I’m not defending her.. because we’ll.. I’m queer, so I know it wasn’t cool I’m just trying to provide a reason for the situation. I used to regularly watch Colleen and she has had several situations like this happen before where they weren’t based on malicious intent but rather on ignorance.

[@Meeko4eve39]

Interesting video. I personally haven't watched any of the shows mentioned and I've also never seen any Miranda Sings videos... And I don't often watch TV shows or films where relationships are a major plot point, I guess. Or at least that's not what I'd focus on while watching it. Sooo... Why am I watching this video again? 😂 Just kidding! But I do think that I have a better understanding of the issue now. So, thanks for that, Moe 👍 It does seem like a douchbag thing to do, so I understand better now why people get so upset about it. Anyway. I'll stop rambling now. Good video!

[@CopsHateMoe]

MichaelJackson4eve39 ah hey, thanks, that actually means a lot and I’m glad you found it interesting! And ahaha yeah that’s fair enough, I don’t usually watch those kind of shows myself - I just thought I’d talk about them in this video, since they’re the type of shows that usually include queerbaiting (I’m actually a film student so regrettably I am a bit of a film snob haha)

[@rikki2315]

That sweater looks very nice.

[@techtonicspaceman]

The Riverdale kiss was definitely queerbaiting, the way they used it in the advertisements was insulting

[@parsleybeckett6335]

the only issue I had with merlin is that gwen and arthur just didn't work that well? like merlin and gwen seemed to be set up in the first series and merlin and arthurs relationship could be either platonic or romantic. however towards the end of the show (spoiler warning) specifically when arthur literally dies in merlins arms, seems to edge on romantic tbh

[@Kace_Darbouze-Omolade]

Destiel was rlly annoying for me, I had to stop watching 😭🤦🏾‍♂️

[@emilycasper-kelley7118]

I'm sorry this is totally off topic but you are so cute!! Omg

[@mousescribner8641]

I have the same opinion on merlin, I was actually very surprised at how many people shipped them when I went to the internet for fandom stuff

[@mimmikibilly]

Oh dear, that Merlin scene! T.T I agree wholeheartedly by the way.

[@PERS3PH0NEe]

Woah your hair looks so good!

[@squarecat2589]

I like the doctor who corner going on

[@rosabowen731]

I was a little thrown by the venn diagram, honestly, because sexual and romantic attraction have been separated in my mind for quite a while now. Romance can be things like kissing (on the lips) or, like, marriage that don't involve sex but are still very non-platonic. You can show that a relationship is non-platonic without using sex. You can just explicitly say characters are dating if you need to - it's not that hard.

[@KiteBlackthorn]

I personally can’t comment on Merlin as I never watched it but as for Teen Wolf don’t really agree with the show being called “queer baiting” mainly because they had multiple gay and lesbian characters as well as gay and lesbian kissing scenes, so in that way of the show runners “not wanting” to upset their homophobic audience doesn’t really hold up. However I hadn’t personally seen the voting thing with Derek and Stiles until right now and I am genuinely shocked by that, the only thing I can think is the show runners were playing into the obsessive shippers thing but as I’ve never personally liked that aspect of /any/ fandom I won’t even entertain condoning that behaviour. I think I (as a bi person myself) never really found an issue with Stiles because I never picked up on all the “bi” coding, I don’t know if I was just more oblivious when I was younger(probably) but from day one in my eyes he was always in love with Lydia and I knew the show would get there eventually, I never shipped him with Derek myself and although it would have been DOPE if he actually was bi, it’s a shame and a miss for the show certainly but I just can’t in good conscious accuse the show of malice in that way

[@Kace_Darbouze-Omolade]

Brands love using the gays for marketing 🙄🙄

[@treevibes5933]

I know this comment is VERY late but I totally agree with your argument here. Positive representation in influencers of the lgbtq community is hard to come by. Literally today, I had come out. I lost my best friend. I had been friends with her for 7 years. Queerbaiting like this just makes a joke of what we go through coming out. It's honestly super disappointment, and it hurts more people than people realize

[@absolute.lynot279]

In the Voltron series, a character was suddenly revealed to be gay and his boyfriend died in the next episode💀

[@Jasminestealth1]

My fav part of the this video as an American “fu@k off” love your accent

[@scocopat457]

Oh my lord I love merlin its a show me and my mom bond over because we're both obsessed with it haha

[@the_demon_cat337]

Your video was good overall but I’d like to argue on the sex being romantic though you have ace peeps (some do have sex but not all) that’s romance without sex and you also have friends with benefits and that’s sex without romance as well. Also platonic love for the win!! Please normalization platonic love!

[@finntompkins3768]

I need that sweatshirt its so cool

[@callandry722]

idk why but i find ir really funny that you drew a vendiagram..

[@commonerscoffee.]

i am so suprised you didn't mention voltron lol

[@agust_dino897]

I don't think it was the writers' intent to queerbait Merthur either but the fact that they're described as two halves of a whole, basically soulmates and each other's destiny... They're always willing to die for each other. I know that could still be platonic but I see these descriptions still mostly as romantic, as do most people. I agree that it's sad that male friends can't show affection as much without it being labeled as gay and I find it horrendous but. personally, I see a lot of romance in Merlin. Merthur's connection has always been way stronger and more romantic than the straight shippings (Arwen, Merlin x Freya...). It's as if all you need for romance is a kiss and then it's a good, established relationship. Gwen was done dirty in the show anyways... I love her but hate her writing. If she had had better scenes with Arthur I would ship them but it just didn't give me any feelings of investment in their relationship, whereas Merthur was way more interesting. Even just the way they look at each other had me in my feels. They basically had heart eyes. Anyways, I just had the urge to pour my heart out about this because I love Merlin. I respect that you don't want to see them as romantic but I really tried to do so as well (because I don't want to be the gay that codes everything as gay too) and I couldn't see them as straight. I look at Merlin and my gaydar starts ringing haha. Yeah, so, I agree to respectfully disagree. I still enjoyed the video tho! Greetings :)

[@Moonsnailthegreat]

Ok but Steve Rogers and Bucky barns are 100% gay bc he cared way more about Bucky then he ever did Peggy and they literally slept in the same bed when they could sleep separately. Plus just look at Steve and tell me he isn’t gay. If they made CAPTAIN AMERICA gay, imagine how many gay men could feel seen and heard and like they are still masculine and a man regardless of being gay. It would have done great socially, story wise, and just makes sense Oh plus Steve had a strong bromance relationship with falcon so like perfect

[@zaylek6568]

Omgg I love Merlin so much ❤️❤️

[@girlontheedge2636]

dan and phil they always told people to not make assumptions but people still did and when they came out in 2019 people started shipping them again both have stated their friendship is platonic but people..

[@Lucifear616]

Maybe I’m missing something but if I’m understanding correctly in the examples given queerbaiting seems to be fairly heavily subjective, and if that’s the case then I don’t see what’s wrong with that? Yes I think it’s important to have very open and out there representation in all sorts of media but the impression I get from this video is that all characters should be “black and white” almost in their identity but what’s wrong with characters that are vague and hinted at in all directions that everyone can see themselves in? I guess I’m just not sure I agree it’s exploitative at least not any more so than any show or whatever with be twisted and teased and released out of contexts by the big guns to get as many people watching as possible and, let’s face it, as much money in their pockets as possible. When it comes to what Miranda sings did from what I know of the character the problem I see with it is the build up, if it was the fake coming out mocking people who do that shit I think being a contained thing in one video would have been ok and fitted her description of her character but I think the build up is what was cruel. Not sure if that made sense or not and hopefully I haven’t offended anyone just thought I’d put my thoughts out there and if I have missed something maybe someone could explain what it is if they want to.

[@avx156]

oh also what do you think of Katie McGrath?

[@CopsHateMoe]

Ah I love her,, she is so beautiful omg. I met her at an Armageddon and she was really lovely!

[@halleyb9359]

I respect your opinion but I honestly disagree with the stuff about teen wolf. I'm bisexual and I'm not/wasn't offended by any of that. Jeff Davis is gay and I think he just wanted to relate to that audience, not exploit it. Teens exploring different thoughts about their sexuality that they may not have thought about before is normal and that's fine. Just because there were a couple of scenes where it appears as though Stiles may have considered it, doesn't mean his character had to be bisexual. People ask themselves those things and sometimes come to the realization that it doesn't fit them, it's totally normal. It was clear from the literal very beginning that Stiles and Lydia were end game. They set it up right at the start and it was obvious. I saw it more of him just being insecure about himself, at least with the scenes he shared with Danny. Derek and Stiles were clearly not romantic at all, the viewers just loved them on screen together. Chemistry doesn't equal romance. The ad was playing on that, I just saw it as something silly. People can choose to be offended by it I guess but I just don't think it's that deep honestly. As for the show, it had tons of representation for gay people, so I don't see how it was exploitative. I definitely don't think Jeff was catering to a straight audience at all. I want more good representation as a bisexual person, but not to the extent that I'm going to get offended that a character isn't bisexual because I think they should be or they appear as if they could be but it isn't addressed. I don't see it as a big deal, especially when the character's trajectory was clear from the beginning. Anyways, hope I haven't sounded rude, just sharing my perspective.

[@ryunosuketanaka7226]

out of all the scenes (THE FLOWER SCENE) thats the one you chose? i mean thanks for not bashing it and i agree. i love merlin. its a great show.

[@nafcatt8863]

Yo what about SHERLOCK WTF

[@hahafunny1317]

yeah it makes me sad because i love that show...

[@คเA]

This isn’t related but you look so much like my ex best friend same eyes and face expect with an accent, but you’re a lot nicer than he is 💖💖💖

[@totallyoutofit6989]

I'm not sure whether Merlin was queerbaiting or not, but i definitely detected some LGBT+ subtext there. Those two things can be separate though, they might not have intended there to be any baiting

[@elwhy69]

supergirl...?

[@mylucidadventures6540]

except styles is 100% bi... remember that time in the first season he asked danny (not sure if that was there friends name.) if he was attractive to men?

[@Zeffer32]

OMG MERLIN THATS WHERE I KNOW YOU FROM ;P

[@peachreed]

But Cheryl is gay...IMO her character is basically saying your attempt at being edgy is embarrassing and girls who do this just make themselves look stupid. I thought more people would have pointed out that Cheryl is in a gay relationship and they don't fetishize them. I believe they are shown in a light that every other couple is shown. Which I appreciate knowing they're showing it equally and not making it a big deal to the other characters that they are gay. Nobody blinks an eye and I love that for their relationship.

[@raepan2797]

Well , I dont think Merthur was queerbaiting but I wouldve adored them together.

[@pandaqtv]

Was that a green screen behind you?

[@pandaqtv]

Or just HD?

[@geminhya]

Great video thanks !

[@sarahjeanne9551]

the mirandasings part start about 13:10

[@blondiesaband]

where did you get that cute ass SWEATER

[@camscendants3096]

*cough* supercorp *cough*

[@PWillow]

hey moe! wanted to pipe in and say that you can show sexual affection and it can be platonic! no hate, just weighing in. :))

[@sugarsore]

You realize that Miranda isn't a real person right?

[@FAT5AMS]

I feel asleep 37 seconds into this video. Look at that bedroom what are you 6 years old.

[@gajoratte]

😂what is offending you about their bedroom? Pictures on the wall? What are you living in friend?

[@ninac1954]

teen wolf NEVER queerbaited. yall were just weirdly obsessed with sterek, which would literally be ILLEGAL. LMFAOSOD

[@EveTheRaviolo]

i feel like calling fanservice "queerbating" has become a trend now only to have more reasons to get upset at something. There's plenty of fanservice between opposite sex characters in several shows. The "oooh they might be in love but HAHA JUST KIDDING they're just friends" has been done so much on opposite sex characters, but people only complain when its between same sex characters. Again, fanservice has been a thing since the dawn of times. Calling it "offensive" only when it regards one group doesnt speak equality at all. On the other side so many of my lgbt communities love fanservice, people in general do. Developers and producers have noticed that viewers tend to be more drawn to ships/couples that are only implied and teased, and not canon (and that for straight ships too, not only lgbt ones). Its literal statistics showing viewers tend to be more drawn to hinted subtle romantic interactions rather than canon officialized ones. Some articles link this fenomenon to a psychological factor inducing many people to enjoy being teased, to enjoy the frustration that comes with being teased with something that is not explicitly there. It just kinda makes me sad that we cannot even have fanservice anymore cause everything has to be offensive nowadays. Me and my other lgbt friends have always loved fanservice. Even LGBT fanservice, we love the thrill of questioning if there's a romance or not. Its just sad how everything is going now.

[@samies_corner]

She was joking about being a Meghan Trainor fan. Gays need to calm down with the fake tea

[@CopsHateMoe]

Samantha Tish this is not about “tea” I don’t care about “youtube drama.” This is an analysis on queerbaiting and why it is harmful. I simply used Colleen as an example. You clearly did not understand my video.

[@samies_corner]

@@CopsHateMoe so queerbaiting is when a writer(for example) makes hints towards there being a gay romance but doesn't come out and say it straight? Who cares??? Big boo hoo you didn't get to see two gays tongue each other. There are millions of movies books and other stuff where straight people don't straight out do stuff but are still supposed to be together. And we heteros deal. The gays just make everything about them cause they're "special"

[@CopsHateMoe]

​@@samies_corner oh cool a straight person trying to explain to LGBT people why they aren't allowed to be offended and not understanding how their actions can harm us.

[@samies_corner]

@@CopsHateMoe just cause there isn't gay stuff in a movie doesn't mean you're "harmed" I'm an ally but I disagree with this whole issue and I have friends that are in the community that agree it's just stupid and petty. If something is made a certain way just deal with it the world doesn't revolve around gay relationships it's really not all that big a deal if someone doesn't make they're ocs kiss or whatever. It's called artistic freedom

[@butterflybrenda6558]

@@samies_corner Honestly, you don't sound like a very good ally and I hope your friends in the community don't see your ignorant comment.

[@samies_corner]

Who cares if people are gay or not?? "Queerbaiting" sounds like gays wants more attention.

[@CopsHateMoe]

Samantha Tish you evidently didn’t understand anything I said in my video. Gay people do not want “more attention.” That is such an ignorant statement, growing up LGBT is fricking hard and to see people exploit that for views is shitty.

[@CopsHateMoe]

Julia O'Neill exactly. It’s honestly just thinly veiled homophobia. Saying you’re an ally doesn’t make you an ally haha

[@Aa-ru3jb]

Ok bigottt, I see you😌🤚❤️

[@osml]

We want 'representation', not 'companies using us as bait, when they know how eager we are for representation and then do a last minute "jkjk omg you really thought this person was queer?"'.

[@Aa-ru3jb]

RÉKA preachhh