Color Management Part 6: Print an evaluation print.

[@danelmore5899]

Fantastic series, Wayne! I've been doing photography for a long time and never had all of this explained in such detail and organization. Very helpful and I appreciate you taking the time to create this series. I'm on this sixth part and have already learned a lot!

[@cwaynefox]

Glad it was helpful!

[@kilosierraalpha]

This series is the best set of videos on color management on YT. Thank you so much Wayne! By the way, Bill's test image link doesn't work. Could you try reuploading? Thanks again.

[@cwaynefox]

Thanks for the kind words. Sorry I didn’t see this sooner. I think the link works now. Not sure why Dropbox flagged it.

[@kilosierraalpha]

@@cwaynefox THANK YOU Wayne!!! Appreciate the effort. Downloaded it just fine.

[@cwaynefox]

@@kilosierraalpha Glad it worked. thanks for letting me know. Sorry I didn’t see this earlier. seems KZbin emails are going to junk right now. have to fix that.

[@alanward4551]

fantastic!!! just profiled my SW270c benq using palette master with a spyder 4.. i have a canon printer so used the canon print studio pro to print, printed jack flesher test page.. came out perfect.. thanks for the video series

[@grahamsmith2743]

Hello Wayne, Brilliant set of videos - the best explanation of Colour Management from "go to whoa" that I have I have run across in either print or video. Especially like the emphasis put on ambient light - an area all to often glossed over by others. One point in part 6 has confused me though. In printing your reference image [at 7.45m] you used an .icc profile and allowed PS to manage the process. In other videos I have seen the presenters say, while still stressing that you should not alter the image in any way, to just allow the printer to manage the process and don't use a profile [I am not confusing the workflow with printing a test sheet for making paper profiles] Your method seems more relevant to me. After all, future images will be printed using an .icc profile [at least with colour - as I use AB&W on my Epson P800 for monochrome images] so it makes sense to calibrate your screen to a print using your usual workflow process. Is there a reason you print the reference image with the profile? Does it make a big difference? I use LR for printing and also Epson Print Layout which is a great piece of software. I nearly have both my monitors to my liking [ 27" iMac - late 2014 and a 27" NEC PA271W] The strawberries are the key! Colour Management can become quite obsessive. I have subscribed to your channel and look forward to future content. Regards, Graham Smith Australia

[@cwaynefox]

Sorry to take so long to get back to you. I’m surprised anyone teaching quality color management wold say to allow the printer to manage the process. You should never allow the printer to manage any process (unless using the sRGB workflow I referred to in earlier videos). As you mentioned, anytime you are printing final output, you need to apply the profile that will transpose the color data into the color space of the output printer and paper - that’s the whole point. There might be some confusion with the process of printing a target print to make a profile, where you disable all color management including that of the printer and of printing software. I guess I should have called these prints “reference” prints in hindsight, since a target is a completely different thing, something which only those that make their own profiles use.

[@MichaelAngeloMacias]

wonderful insightful information! thank you wayne!

[@cwaynefox]

Thanks.

[@rhymeandreasoning]

Just discovered your channel. I like it, and Subscribed.

[@cwaynefox]

thanks

[@mominsart]

Thank you so much for all the information, it clears up lots of confusions already, I am trying to print my Artwork, the test page you mentioned here are free to download..Thanks!!!

[@cwaynefox]

Glad it was helpful!

[@mmdday]

you should do the 16 to 8 bit conversion after changing color spaces. The 16-bit allows more precision for the math of converting color spaces.

[@andresforero5723]

Hi, Jack Flesher Test is no longer available in the link, can you please upload again?, thanks

[@cwaynefox]

Sorry, I didn’t see this earlier. I updated the link in the description to a version I have on Dropbox a while back. Let me know if it doesn’t work.

[@andresforero5723]

@@cwaynefox Thank you Wayne, it worked. :)

[@pascals3204]

Thank you for making this video series, really helpful. I do have a question though. I usually print either on a baryta paper or on a matte paper. Should I make an evaluation print and a profile for each paper?

[@cwaynefox]

terribly sorry to take so long ... I’ve been a little indisposed and preoccupied for the last 8 months or so. You don’t need to make an evaluation print for each paper type, using a good paper, typically a luster type paper, will allow you to get the brightness of your display and the white point of the display dialed in. But you do have to use a profile made for the specific paper and printer when printing output. All paper makers provide these for most printers, you just need to download them and install them into your computer.

[@pascals3204]

@@cwaynefox No worries! Good to see you back with some videos. After a few runs of the calibration software I had my settings dialed in and the results are excellent. I wish I had known this method earlier (in hindsight it actually seems the only logical way to do it). Thanks again!

[@digitalnomadmarketing9930]

Hi Wayne ~ thanks for doing this series on color management. It has clarified so much for me. I think I might be missing something though. If the final goal is to send a file to an outside printer as an sRGB jpeg file ~ was there any point to working with it as ProPhoto RGB in the first place. Thanks again ~ looking forward to the finale in this series!

[@cwaynefox]

We are using sRGB as an output profile when we make the file to submit to a lab. This print is simply to calibrate our display and will have everything we need to do that, despite the limited gamut. Most good labs will also allow you to send the image in AdobeRGB, if so for actual work that would be a better option. labs that are using photo paper printers typically do not support ProPhoto, since those printers gamuts fall inside of AdobeRGB, and have very little colors outside of sRGB. However, the entire idea is these are not good spaces to use as a working space since you severely limit your colors. You want to work with your files full quality data, and only convert to a working space when you are ready to output for a specific output device. to me using sRGB as a working space because my lab requires it is no different than if I use my printers profile as my working space. Using an output space as a working space severely limits what you can do with the image.

[@digitalnomadmarketing9930]

@@cwaynefox Thanks for the detailed reply - it answers all my concerns. I follow all of your videos and have learned a lot from you. Much appreciated.

[@chilichickSantaFe]

I hope you read this as videos 2 years old may be lost in digital space. How do I do color management with a commercial but willing art oriented printer 1500 miles away. I sent a color profile (dropbox) and it came back with reds being muddy and missing a lot of blue argh. I used the ROMM profile which I understand replaces Pro Adobe RGB. I am struggling, I hate to admit. I am unable to proceed without some direction or enlightenment. What do you suggest? Do I follow a window 10 screen "calibration" and adjust the print and resubmit to the printer? Something else?

[@cwaynefox]

So a few things. ROMM rgb is actually the predecessor to ProPhoto rgb, it was used by Kodak when it developed that color space. the scanning software should be using a scanner profile to convert the colors to either ProPhoto RGB or AdobeRGB (there is no Pro Adobe RGB :) ) This is then your “working” space ... as explained the in vides we never see the colors in this space, they are always mapped to the output device such as the display or paper. The process of calibrating and profiling the display is pretty straight forward. I you are not doing your own printing, I would recommend you have the lab print one of the target prints I recommended without adjusting them in any software,. You may have to open them in Photoshop and then save them out as an sRGB file, and then use the resulting print as your reference when creating your display profile as I discussed in the videos. At that point you have the display matching output from your lab, now when you adjust your files and submit them you should get a better match. Artwork is tough because the dyes in paints can react differently to film or a sensor than to our eyes, so we can get false color from the art. Sometimes it takes some manual tweaking of the file. When we do color reproductions of art at my store, because we are trying to get as exact of a match as possible to the original, it will usually take several test prints and adjustments, sometimes to single colors, to get them to where the artist is satisfied with the result.

[@hjohnssonphoto]

Thank you for making this series on color management. I can not find Jack Flesher's test page. Can it be downloaded elsewhere? Thanks again for very good videos.

[@cwaynefox]

Not sure what happened to that link. Here’s where to download it from my dropbox ... tinyurl.com/26vufuu6

[@hjohnssonphoto]

@@cwaynefox Thank you very much for the test page. You teach very well and I have learned a lot from your videos.

[@russellmann8297]

Ok, I have went through every one of these videos on Color Management and I understand the part about the different color gamut. However at the end when you get ready to print it looks like you do the actual printing with the SRGB color space. Is this correct?

[@cwaynefox]

sRGB is a working space. The image might be in that space, some of the files I use in the process are provided in sRGB, but the working space being used (sRGB, AdobeRGB or ProPhotoRGB) doesn't really matter. The print is done through the space that matches the printer and paper being used. 7:46 in the video talks about choosing the correct printer space.

[@texshooter7411]

Why don't you make your own ICC printer profiles with a spectrophotometer?

[@cwaynefox]

I do make my own profiles, I use a i1isis, and a 4000 patch target. But Epson profiles are very good now and printers are so consistent there isn't a real good reason to not use their profiles for their papers. Moab also makes very good profiles. Not sure about other brands.