Combo Variety

[@hafizzzzzzzzzzzzz]

Sometimes when I use totsugeki I press both S and HS and let god decide

[@demiurge2501]

I need to do this now

[@happycamperds9917]

Doesn’t it prioritize the S dolphin?

[@fluury]

@@happycamperds9917 Yes. When pressing multiple buttons on the same frame Strive will prioritize the "lowest" input, e.g. holding P K S and HS will result in P coming out.

[@imwrongyoureright.3890]

@@happycamperds9917 depends on how you press it, might press HS first on accident

[@metavanaj]

You’re mad. Respect.

[@Mocha-Frappuccino]

Honey, Leon's talking about Gear again

[@ClaireDuhLune]

Ooh, make some space under the blanket for me and I'll get the popcorn!

[@metasodium2170]

Wake up honey, new Leon video

[@hannana.4319]

@Kayden McCallum Oh *yes*

[@levyp3114]

thanks babe

[@DaviddeBergerac]

I was literally gonna make this joke but the joke's on YOU because I can actually subject my wife to this video

[@DoomRater]

I didn't expect a guy in the fighting game community to tell me exactly why I'm so addicted to Minecraft but here we are

[@Mil3o]

What (Sry didn't rly get it)

[@DoomRater]

@@Mil3o Freedom. When you are told one thing and it leads to the discovery that, well, if that works what about all this other 8th level stuff? That's satisfying, and precisely what I feel playing modded Minecraft

[@SicklySeraph]

I like how he uses other games as references to fighting games, it helps players feel like fighting games aren't totally alien to them

[@Mil3o]

@@DoomRater Ah got it. Tho I rly needed the context that it was that part

[@אדרששון]

i think its defrent, minecraft is about the building blocks, and slowly changeing your place or places also moded minecraft is an eazy to make task simulator and you should stop playing them

[@FriendlyKillbot]

Can't wait to hear how he works his favorite character Venom into this one!

[@JillTGear]

The comparison of autocombos to the needler actually blew my mind. That’s a really good way to advocate for it.

[@Milpy]

What was with that guy yelling about Persona? Weird...

[@Gep_05]

What a weirdo...

[@demiurge2501]

Very strange

[@floppyfish4569]

I think he was suggesting blocking

[@joaovitorsilvalima8457]

Tru

[@littlefuniman6881]

i hear normal cancels more universally just called chains. infact thats what the skullgirls community actually calls them, cancels are far to vague.

[@Chuckdezzy7]

Muh gatlings

[@eyitsaperson]

@@Chuckdezzy7 what does this mean

[@junidaydreamer]

@@eyitsaperson its what guilty gear calls them

[@WhiteKnuckleRide512]

@@junidaydreamer it’s also what Rivals of Aether calls them for some reason? (Possibly only referring to when dash attack cancels into ustrong)

[@dotmp3883]

I think we should call them “when the moves combo together, not a link but a cancel, but not a special cancel, they’re all normals, a normal cancel, and you have to press the buttons in order, like left to right or right to left usually?”

[@jordanguelbert7754]

"Doing motion inputs on a pad feels eldritch" Me who has only played fighting games on pads and mains Grapplers l8ke daimon: "Maybe I am an eldritch being"

[@grimms8783]

Personally playing on stick feels awful, I need the control a D-Pad gives or I can't play.

[@Scrubermensch]

Me who plays street fighter 2 on snes controller: I'm the disgusting Frankenstein

[@PowerBottomText]

Yeah I'm the same way, dpad players rise up. I feel like I have less control with stick

[@azazeal905]

I litterally started using arcade sticks cause I can't do pot buster on pad

[@Neogears1312]

WE ARE LEGION

[@mechanicat1934]

The fact he use KOF as an example for links makes me sad. People really don't know anything about how those games were played. They were very cancel heavy: 2 lights / Proximity Heavy > Command Normal > Special was how almost everything worked unless it was a max combo (kind of like Strive. Why they decided to use the system from the other "too hard for newcomers" game I'll never know). Any KOF player will tell you that. Only 13 and to a lesser extent 14 were link heavy and it's one of the reasons 13 wasn't received very well by the old heads. People who like 13 a lot generally played it as their first KOF.

[@HS_Gomikubi]

I too was quite saddened by the way Leon treats KoF in this video... But I'm also very confused by your claim that XIII was somehow "link heavy" in comparison to older games, or that this correlates to being part of the reason it wasn't well received by certain groups within the fanbase. It sounds like the kind of excuse people who care more about shitting on the Capcom crowd than actually playing good FGs would have made at the time, which may well have been a thing in 2011 but I suppose I wouldn't know since I didn't personally end up being involved until 2013. I mean, I know there _were_ links in XIII, but even if they could be considered more common there than in older titles it's not as if anyone _needed_ them to do basic bnbs.

[@Neogears1312]

This; Kof is the least link heavy series ever. It's more of a precursor to chaining normals, because you mainly just cancel 3 attacks together

[@DemonBlanka]

Yeah maybe you can't link Ryo's normals in KoF and you hate links because KoF DOESNT USE LINKS LEON

[@deviljinmishima]

leon doesnt have any idea what hes talking about?? thats new

[@dj_koen1265]

It kind of confused me as well because the only experience i have with kof is trying to cancel lights into eachother for a combo and not doing it fast enough

[@NotLuigi]

My absolute favourite stage of learning any fighting game is when the fundamental structure and idea of the game's combo system clicks in your brain and you're able to adjust and alter your combos on the fly because that inate knowledge of "oh this will work here" is just there in your brain You could be presented with a 1 in a million scenario you've never seen before and convert it into a combo because you understand the combo system at that base level

[@0ctopusComp1etely]

This is the level of comfort that makes me addicted to certain games and characters. When I can finally quit worrying about how to do certain actions, and instead think "Huh, this might be cool" and just do it. It's an incredible feeling.

[@CrowFGC]

It clicked fast for me with Chipp. I convert off stray air alpha blades and everything now.

[@pottedplant37_]

If you want an in-depth combo system, try Blazblue Cross Tag Battle. It might seem basic at first, but cross combos and active switch give a lot of freedom in team comps and combos.

[@Xerclipse]

I have MK11 Kabal combo in my channel that was the direct result of what you just said. But too bad combos like that only involves krushing blows which is why I gave up on the game quickly.

[@Wiziliz]

I agree, NotLuigi, Guilty Gear (pre-Strive) has sick combos.

[@Teacat24]

This man could talk about milk for 20 minutes and make it entertaining.

[@issysito320]

we need the leon massey video on milk now

[@DoomRater]

My headcanon is that leon massey is just Theoryfighter time travelling to a younger body so monke brain go bwuah

[@Daniel.of.Catarina]

I want him to talk about milk for 20 minutes

[@sufferingmp4102]

Alright so just imagine his voice: Milk is a nutrient-rich liquid food produced by the mammary glands of mammals, like cows, goats, and humans if you’re into that kinda thing. But for real milk is unsurprising a pretty healthy drink, when it comes to bones and hydration and.. probably some other stuff I haven’t been able to research. What I can tell you though, is that it’s pretty good. Even on it’s own. But if you want to spice it up you should know milk is fundamental to drinks like Coffee and Tea and everything in between. And if you only like those drinks without milk I’m sorry but you should really consider seeing a therapist because if psychopathic tendencies like that are left unchecked I’d be worried about your future.

[@DoomRater]

@@sufferingmp4102 Fine I'll bite. "Did you know... it's actually a mutant power? Believe it or not (and frankly I refuse to) humans had to evolve to drink milk as adults and that's strangely not the case for most mammals"

[@TehDompie]

Combos are also a way we express individuality in a fighting game, much like deckbuilding or team comps in other game genres. Combos and our combo choice let's us show who we are with our gameplay and differentiate us from everyone else that plays the same character.

[@trustytrest]

And then all mains do the same ToD combo in every tournament

[@robinowie]

Didn't expect the moopoke cameo!

[@Milpy]

yeah that was weird

[@zachiswack8007]

@@Milpy this guy is everywhere

[@dimethylether7179]

It was honestly so cool

[@LeonMassey]

IM FIRST ME ME ME IM FIRST EVERYONE ELSE GET CLOWNED ON

[@Teacat24]

Cool, but when’s the Strive Review, LEON.

[@trustworthyh3ro267]

damnit..i'm typing what i typed before...

[@collinsgichuhi8255]

TFW you're not first on your own video lmao

[@crazycoot647]

Damn he's good

[@JohnGaming55]

3:08 this man over here thinking these types of combos are needed to be good at KOF.

[@itsbuckaroo4828]

I feel like it’s generally over all better for hits to have hit-stop as it makes combos feel more weighted as well as making it easier to asses what’s happening.

[@chazaqiel2319]

I agree. Now try to explain that to a Netherrealm enthusiast

[@Ganmorg]

Hit stop is such a subtle thing I didn’t notice before but now I notice it everywhere. It’s a super easy and really useful technique to subtly sell the impact of a hit and help with hit confirming.

[@xavibun]

Hit-stop is a mechanic in fighting games and most other games in general that is often taken for granted, if it's even noticed at all.

[@Y00bi]

@Awawawa CM As long as there's actually feedback to you hitting someone it tends to make monkey brain happy and feel better.

[@FlyXcur]

Hit stop makes hit confirming so much easier to my brain

[@thetruejerrycan]

I don't really see why you used KOF as an example for talking about links. They really aren't the focus of KOF's combo system, and as a matter of fact, I think most people would be surprised links even exist in KOF. You did use some footage of SFIV to talk about it, that's a game I would say is very heavily link-reliant, but I think it would have been better to use more of it when discussing links because of that fact. I just don't want people being misled about KOF and how the game structure really works

[@chedisalhi2382]

THANK YOU !

[@dbgr9875]

We are sworn enemies and this is why: Combos in Smash require an extra layer of awareness, one not seen in other fighters, but everyone knows that, percent blah blah blah. But it feels amazing af when you just start freestyling, with movement through the air is way less restricted than other fighters. Something about mashing up airs on your opponent with Mario, or just starting to rush in by throwing out back airs as DK feels so free.

[@maagic2031]

Smash combos are weird because the person getting comboed has so much influence over the combo. That can make them feel really random and unrewarding when someone with good DI prevents you from doing damage and amazing when you can still kick their ass in spite of that. A good smash combo will have you making the Kira "keikaku doori" face for the entire match.

[@grasshopper801]

@@maagic2031 It becomes so fun when you're adapting to your opponent's DI. In Smash, combos aren't a singleplayer minigame where the other player waits for you to mess up. Rather, they are a dynamic dance

[@grimms8783]

If the opponent has that much control over your combo it kind of starts feeling like less of a combo anymore. Hell it's one of the reasons I've never got super into Smash, I just can't enjoy the fact I'm gonna spend such and such amount of time making a combo only to take it online and have it ruined by a marginally different character weight, percentage or DI. Because of that I just play neutral and have never bothered with combos.

[@dbgr9875]

@@grimms8783 Honestly, I'm nothing special at Smash, and seldom do I practice combos in training mode. But like I said, it's more about knowing your moves and getting a feel for everything, not muscle memory(sometimes). Because so many combos you see aren't even true, they are just reading/reacting to an opponent's escape option, or just getting some lucky guesses. You should know some bnb combos to start out, but as you get better you'll build off of them.

[@firstbones]

@@grimms8783 that's the fun part - you always have more to learn! Putting in time to learn a combo and thinking about all the diff kinds of defensive options the opponent has at their disposal to keep it going makes your punish game progressively stronger; taking DI, SDI, stage position and platform extensions into consideration can make Smash combo routes super deep and complex in a way that is pretty uncommon in fighting games imo

[@KingCuba]

I just wanted to say that Leon has a really solid grasp on game design and is quite adept at conveying the important information to his point. Sounds easy, but it can be tricky to not get bogged down

[@eoeaoe12e]

@Kayden McCallum ^ exactly this. leon makes long videos with classic youtube tropes blended in (slight background music, generic editing, random humor) but most of his arguments are either just false or very misinformed.

[@Stroggoii]

He is very casual and not super into anything but GG. But he's funny, and you're more willing to accept people you like in positions of authority, so you perceive him as more capable than he is. What matters is that he's a good entertainer.

[@TitankroW]

@@eoeaoe12e long videos? Most of his videos besides this one are 15 minutes or below and good editing isn’t a trope that’s like saying a movie having good directing and good camera work is a trope

[@KingCuba]

@@Stroggoii Definitely entertaining, but I hold my point. What really keyed me in was his bringing the button mashing problem full circle, from the 3D point of view. That’s not exactly surface level stuff, and to make it funny as well? Being funny is probably more subjective, but his points on game design hold water.

[@dj_koen1265]

The only thing i think he got wrong in this video is on kof combos

[@andreservando3242]

Great video as always! However, I think KoF XIII's trials have misguided you. Links in the KoF games are not really important, since the game is so fast and the meat of the combos is what does the damage (not to mention most lights are perfectly fine as combo starters). These games rely a lot more heavily in special-to-special canceling (specially XIII) and juggling.

[@lavellelee5734]

The concept of cancelling a special to go into another one sounds so raw, low-key makes me want to play it

[@WraxTV]

Feel like you are falling into the same trap with KOF almost everyone else does, thinking it's harder than it actually is. Almost every combo I do in KOF is cancel based rather than link based. That's what I love about KOF - every character can do a Normal -> Command -> Special/SDM combo. In KOFXIII, it's even crazier, there's a whole subsystem for canceling special moves into other special moves. Like yeah, I get that the combo trials are stupid hard, but no one uses those in actual play - they're there purely to be a difficult thing to do for cheevos. Anyway, VSav has the best combos. They do damage quickly and they're over quickly, getting you back to the break-neck pace of the 1v1 neutral game. You can do a super easy combo with just chains, but there's also links if you feel like pushing your brain for extra reward.

[@WraxTV]

@@starbreaker6441 Yeah, I felt like it allowed a bit more freedom due to Drive being its own separate resource, and you can do special to special without fully committing to HD activation (for a heavy cost though.) It's like how KOFXI had a separate meter for tag combos. It's nice to have multiple resources, allows for more interesting choices to make.

[@lavellelee5734]

@@WraxTV they had a separate meter just for tag team? Could someone play with just one character vs a team

[@dewmeer]

@@lavellelee5734 There was a second meter specifically for canceling a move into tagging in your character, you still have to pick 3 characters.

[@JustLazer]

This wasn't about what I expected it to be about. This seems more about Combo Systems than Combo Variety. I thought this was going to be about exploring the benefits of choosing your different combo trees throughout all games that have combos. Still satisfied with what I watched, good video. I started to zone out after halfway but that's because it's late and I was trying to figure out/mentally create my ideal fighting game. For me, combos are satisfying when I can land them. As soon as it feels like it should be a given that I nail a combo, then I'm only left with disappointment if I fail it and no satisfaction if I get it. What I get satisfaction from consistently is reading and counterplaying what I expect my opponent is going to do. Which is why I'm somewhat fond of Pokken. Though this video helped me realize its combos are lacking. I think it's important that combos aren't cutscenes and/or that the one being combo'd still has something they can do during the combo to counterplay it. And that likewise the one performing the combo can account for specific counterplays the one being combo'd can go for. So what I'm saying is that Smash Ultimate is almost my ideal of a fighting game and we're sworn enemies. I'll be lookin' around to see if there's other videos of yours I'm interested in.

[@noahbond7179]

Them's Fightin' Herds has the most combo variety out of any game I've played (admittedly not a huge number). The fact that I can play another player using the same character and get caught by completely different combo routes is amazing to me. If you're reading this PLEASE PLAY IT IT'S SO GOOD AND IT HAS PERFECT NETCODE AND AMAZING LOBBIES on top of the previously mentioned combo variety.

[@notkendall5323]

Skullgirls is also like this, people NEED to play the smaller fighting games

[@Hattori75]

@@notkendall5323 Here's hoping for Skullgirls third wind now that it's a main game at Evo

[@CrowFGC]

@@jazzerthighs8842 combo variety?

[@notkendall5323]

@@Hattori75 seems like it, it’s rather easy to find players online now

[@AofCastle]

@@notkendall5323 I really like Skullgirls but I still only play offline because I get beaten to death by an infinite combo each and every time I try online

[@kidontheinternet8107]

13 seconds Leon Massey yes

[@radicalpokemaniacs]

1 minute Leon Massey lets go

[@ThePikaPlayer]

20 minutes Leon Massey woo

[@rayline1583]

...but no seriously can we talk about how the pony game does everything right and nobody talks about it to make it actually related to the video, every character has the exact same basic bnb available, learn it once and you can now forget about basic functioning and focus on exploring individual tools, I love it

[@nintendork9207]

Yeah, the pony game(much as so many "big boy" fgc members dread to admit) actually nails it excellently and makes itself available not only to the long-time vets, but the newcomers to the genre as well, and it's SO FUCKING AMAZING. Props to Mane6.

[@SoftwareNeos]

I love Rivals Of Aether. I'm not always the best at smash but the fundamentals at least transfer. I played how i usually played and thought at first that ROA was ok. Then I actually heard about and saw the training mode. Didn't even know about wavedashing or character specific combos to use. It completely changed my way of thinking to positioning and parrying. Instead of just throwing an aerial (that could be parried and punished) I should use my wave dashing to juke my opponent and potentially get in and get out... then after playing a few hundred more hours I ACTUALLY TRIED hitfalling. Something i thought only the pros do. And I did it successfully and I THOUGHT I WAS SICK AS SHIT. Its as the man says. This new freedom I felt came cause my expectations weren't there yet. And now I have found the fighting game I'll prolly love for years. Go play those games people. Maybe try rivals or even wait for rivals 2 to come out.

[@CrossfacePanda]

Regarding all the different names for being able to cancel normals into normals... Isn’t the universal name for that Chain Combos? At least, that’s what I learned back in the day, as it was a way to discuss the same type of combo in different games.

[@chazaqiel2319]

I thought the official name was Gatling. Huh.

[@RaphDeGrate]

@@chazaqiel2319 definitely not gatling, GG was played by like 10 people back in the day, gatling is a cool word tho, so I could see people trying to use it to describe non GG stuff but links/chains are definitely more likely

[@dreamcastspirit1386]

Magic series, chain combos, Gatling or target combos depending on game

[@Denter86]

I learned the term Magic Chain, so I can assure you, everyone learned something different.

[@CrossfacePanda]

@Dreamcast Spirit Target Combos are something very specific, though, as they are a pre-set series of buttons that can be cancelled into each other, and every button after the first one usually gives you unique animations that can’t be found on any of that character’s standalone buttons. Though they’re also different from Strings (which is what I was tought to call NRS/Tekken style ”pre-set button series” combos), as those buttons (usually) aren’t cancelled into each other, but rather just a ”string” of buttons where each animation plays out as the other is finished. Basically, Target Combos are Chain Combos, but not all Chain Combos are Target Combos, and while a Target Combo is a predetermined string of buttons, they are technically different from Strings, which aren’t Chain Combos. Magic Series, Gatling, Beat, Revolver Action, etc are all functionally the same thing however: a Chain Combo.

[@badcar33]

Blazblue central fiction is peak fighting games to me for this exact reason. I love the way things flow in that game and because of the sheer variety of characters there's bound to be something for someone.

[@Aripuni1]

My favourite too, and really underrated anime fighting game

[@solairefan5420]

Yeah I don't understand why so few people talk about it, there's a lot to learn and experiment, it might be hard at first but god damn it's satisfying asf

[@sushiknight7013]

Just picked up xrd and I now understand stand why so many people love that game to death even if the online is bad

[@jonnysac77]

Yo, I hate to be that guy but you should play Guilty Gear Plus R cause on a super basic level, it's basically the same thing but with playable netcode, a lot of Xrd players migrated just because it feels better online

[@sushiknight7013]

@@jonnysac77 I have played plus r before super fun I started playing when it got rollback but I only now just got xrd

[@ciroaldorisio8034]

@@sushiknight7013 it's not even bad, it's just that there are so little people playing it that you always end up matching with some mf on the other side of the world, which is usually some shithole with shitty connection

[@sushiknight7013]

@@ciroaldorisio8034 most of my connections have been mostly 5-6 frames of delay which is still kinda playable but it always jumps from like 5 frames to 7 frames then back to 5 mid match and ends making me drop my combo

[@ciroaldorisio8034]

@@sushiknight7013 yeah i know the feel, i still have nightmares about playing against a leo with bad connection

[@lionheartuchiha4677]

I absolutely love the combo system for street fighter x tekken which uses chains, links and tag mechanics. Lars and Julia were such a joy to play.

[@MegaStunfiskandHat]

Combo Variety is one of the biggest reasons I love smash so much. The combination of movement and decision making when comboing in melee is something I've never experienced in anything else, not to metion the fact that it's a two sided combo game where the opponent has options like DI, SDI and techs to escape the combo and interact even while in hitstun

[@midorixiv]

he mentioned devil may cry, he's definitely fighting game Charlie!

[@Maxler5795]

0:25 If you look at me straight the eye and you tell me that guilty gear strive and street fighter V feel exactky the same, you will find a bullet in your cranium in approximately 17 frames.

[@soundrogue4472]

They feel the same to people who can't get past the difficult skill floor that's janky, have a smoother skill floor and people will be able to tell the difference a lot more.

[@d1v1d3dby0]

"Where is the Strive review Leon?" They just introduced your favorite character there!

[@AirLancer]

Rather odd you use KOF as a big example for links when KOF has a much bigger focus on chain cancels than SF, and 13 has a circus' worth of juggling. Then again, I suppose I have 13's trial mode to blame for that. It includes a lot of links in combos that aren't really necessary at all.

[@HS_Gomikubi]

Yeah, button to button normal links in KoF are just about always a minor optimization (completely unnecessary for most routes, in the Ryo example he could just do cl.C into qcb+D or cr.b to cr.A/standing A, then add qcb+B and call it a day) rather than something you actually need to get meaningful conversions off a given starter. Back in the day this was a big part of why I hated SF and loved KoF, since you literally need links to do anything in SFIV but in KoF they're basically just a minor tool for veterans to flex with. You'll see them occasionally used in high level play, but only incidentally as a result of the string being so advantageous in the first place that it naturally frametraps if the opponent tries to use a normal to escape between the two moves. It's literally just pressure that's easy to confirm with, not something the player is doing to maximize damage.

[@AirLancer]

@@HS_Gomikubi Eeehhh, that's not really true either. Some characters have very useful links that can increase their damage by a lot. Ryo and Yuri's cr.B cr.C link for example allows them to combo into attacks that are too slow to combo from lights, but at the same time it isn't necessary to learn the ropes with them as characters because they'll ways to combo without them. Ralf's combos revolve around certain links, but most of them are ridiculously easy to hit anyway.

[@HS_Gomikubi]

​@@AirLancer I did not say they were useless, or that they do not result in a higher damage combo when successfully applied. I said the difference in damage isn't important enough to make them a requirement to play KoF (which is exactly what you're saying, I just used more words) and the potential damage increase isn't even the main reason competitive players go for them in _most_ cases (again, _most._ Not "all". My previous reply already elaborates on why) However, I suppose you felt it appropriate to specify that newer players can "learn the ropes" without links, where I would argue that neither casual enjoyment nor competitive success at any level requires them. If your primary goal is to win a tournament, the first step to that is picking a better team than Ryo/Yuri.

[@zackfarrel8561]

Wow, you actually explained why I don't like links better than what I was thinking it. I respect Street Fighter for what it is, but damn I despise how the links system feels.

[@biggestbungus1295]

@Kayden McCallum not really just preference

[@mrbluelynxchannel5207]

THIS IS EXACTLY THE VIDEO I WANTED! TELL ME FUNNY INTERNET MEMER! WHY DO SKULLGIRLS COMBOS LOOK SO COOL???

[@p99chan99]

14:15 Small correction: The term reverse beat refers to when you cancel a normal into a lighter one, Melty Blood uses the term 'Beat Edge" :/

[@bababoooeey3657]

The quality on your vids has only been growing in quality, spectacular vid leon

[@MoldMonkey93]

You basically summed up everything that I have ever thought ever. I’m a VF player btw and I prefer how that game does shit, combo wise in a way that’s easy to understand but has enough layer’s of complexity in the oki.

[@SxfetyPin]

21:59 This had me crying laughing. "Why is my character punching like a deflated Micheline Man." LMAO

[@temporalCaster]

Freeform combos are my favourite thing in fighting games tied with interesting movement, it allows for so much creativity and those moments where you KNOW something shouldn't work, but because your opponent wasn't expecting it it did anyways

[@assassinonprozac]

9:26 I not only play fighting games on a pad I use the analog stick instead of the d-pad. Am I some sort of god or a masochist?

[@chazaqiel2319]

I tried using the pad and hated every second of it. I much prefer the analog stick too

[@philcoast1031]

I was wondering the same thing. If you're confortable with a D-pad, great. If not... there's a stick on the same controller! I might be missing something here (input precision, maybe?), but the analog stick feels like the obvious choice in this scenario.

[@Firjiwater]

Using the D-pad IS the issue. I used to have trouble dashing and would always use it but its too slow. Once you get used to using the stick its fine

[@assassinonprozac]

@@philcoast1031 The only game I play with the D-pad is Mortal Kombat because special move inputs are much easier with it and I keep accidentally jumping, (seriously I’ve never had this problem with other games it’s just MK) every other game I’ve played with the analog stick. With the exception of charge characters special move inputs are way harder with the D-pad for me especially 720s/1080s/1800s, (yes there’s a game with a super that requires a quintuple full circle input) I just don’t get how you’d perform any type of circle with something that has rigid edges (keep in mind all of my experiences are from using Xbox controllers). It’ll dig into your thumb if you try to do literally any kind of input in a game that isn’t MK. But there are situations where the stick just doesn’t work properly especially older fighting games where they just weren’t designed with an analog stick in mind (looking at you 30th Anniversary Edition 3rd Strike and your defective dashes).

[@assassinonprozac]

@@Firjiwater That statement wasn’t really about what’s easier more about a stigma against using the analog stick. A good example of this is Woolie and Pat from Super Best Friends Play (rip SBFP). I don’t remember what video(s) this story was told in but or exactly what happened in it but here’s a basic version of it: As many of you may know the Xbox 360’s D-pad was god awful and everyone complained about it (especially before the transforming D-pad, genuinely one of the best thing to happen to the 360) including Woolie. But while Woolie kept complaining about the D-pad he kept using it, Pat however switched to the analog stick and Woolie looked at him like a crazy person. This has happened to me many, many times and it makes me feel like a weirdo.

[@ignaciofranco3655]

The 12:51 eat the rich reference was savage

[@DarkKnight179]

I do slightly disagree about calling all normal cancel systems just "cancels". Being able to tell immediately what *type* of cancel system it is is quite useful, and "light into medium into heavy into drive cancels" is just a mouthful. Especially with Reverse beat, where the alternative is particularly too long yet providing little to the player. For a new player it might not be terribly useful to hear "magic series", but it also isnt something they need to know exactly.

[@grimms8783]

All I know reverse beat is, is instead of going light, medium heavy, you can go heavy, light, medium for example. In other words "combo structure, what's that?", though that's probably wrong.

[@joelsmemes4140]

@@grimms8783 you aren't far off. Reverse Beat is any normal cancel from a heavier move to a lighter one(H->M,M->L, or the forbidden H->M->L) It's in Melty Blood and UnderNight

[@grimms8783]

@@joelsmemes4140 Ah, well that's what I meant I probably just didn't make it come across right, I mainly know reverse beat because in DBFZ level 7 Gohan can do it, and Frieza when he does his Golden Frieza install can do the same thing, though they're the only characters capable of doing it to that level, some other characters have limited reverse beat abilities like Vegito.

[@SirBelchaloT]

Boy I don't know what's more surprising, that I watched a 23 minute video about combos, or that there's a 23 minute video about combos that doesn't even have the briefest mention of Killer Instinct.

[@kovassb7050]

I’ve legit been doing(and mostly failing) to do super cancels in third strike with the full double quarter circles, I had no idea there was a shortcut, that makes so much more sense

[@samedwards3186]

I saw that PR combo and actually went “oh hey I’ve actually done that!” Felt pretty good ngl

[@coffeeluci]

"All fighters feel the same" is such a funny and stupid quote as someone who has played only 3 fighters, where one feels amazing ( Skullgirls ), one feels clunky ( Them's Fightin' Herds ), and one is complicated but smooth ( Guilty Gear ) and this is just *my* experience

[@NomadCanid]

fwiw I mostly refer to DMC style action games as "Character Action"

[@FlameEcho]

I like "Spectacle Fighter" myself.

[@NomadCanid]

@@FlameEcho Spectacle Fighter is a better term actually, I hear both thrown around since everyone seems to unamimously agree that 'action' as a genre means nothing on its own lol

[@maagic2031]

everyone has their own name for the genre and not a single one of them makes sense

[@dj_koen1265]

They are like the modern take on beatemups to me

[@panache2521]

Now I know why I like strive so much. I've achieved intentionality faster than any other fighting game I've played

[@Schneeregen_]

13:00 I think Leon took that whole "Eat the Rich" thing a bit too seriously.

[@Qeiji]

after 6 years I finally found out after +R getting rollback that guilty gear is my shit

[@sracmon2035]

It's so nice that you put snippets of Kyanta 2 in the video Hatsune Miku really needs the exposure for her fighting game

[@FlameEcho]

For real though Smash Combos just feel nice. Its also kind of shame that you didn't have any room to even discuss none execution based expression, like combo choices for damage vs harder knockdown vs meter gain vs stage position vs resets.

[@linkkicksu]

Melee's combo system fits neatly into the juggle system, but it's a lot more improvised because how far your enemy gets knocked back is constantly increasing as you keep on damaging them. So a BnB combo will only be true between a particular damage threshold, and after that you need to predict where your enemy will end up after the first hit based on damage % and guessing their DI or which direction they're mostly likely to tech after landing. Still has the same satisfying feeling of constantly juggling your opponent though.

[@JarlSwagDog]

guys i gotta feeling leon didn't like strive very much

[@Glennjamyyyn]

That little comparison about autocombos and the needler blew my mind, thank you for granting me the mindset to appreciate DBFZ and persona gameplay and not be afraid to use them

[@lukezane7952]

14:32 Hard agree, when I was getting into +R with my roommate when it got rollback (it was my first gear) and struggling to understand what the fuck Gatling meant. Coming from Skullgirls, I knew what cancels were, but I thought Gatling was like a special cancel unique to gear. No it’s just a normal ass cancel, that just makes no sense to players of other games.

[@notimeforcreativenamesjust3034]

Same

[@notimeforcreativenamesjust3034]

Also SKULLGIRLS FOREVER

[@absentcoder4552]

Slight correction: Passing Link is the A-B-C-Special characters get in UNI when you mash A. It’s basically an autocombo.

[@wolfmatic399]

Isn't that Smart Steer? Passing Link is the chaining system, as far as I remember.

[@yosukethefrogman]

Every time moopoke shows up in someone else's fighting game content, my day is made

[@IronKeroro]

that bloodborne insight sight gag killed me for a solid minute when I caught it

[@mangoman785]

Dude, the lmk to shoryu to shippu explanation helped me soooooo much.

[@Arkhavist_S]

Modern KI's combos are my favorite, personally.

[@lucymcelhone4332]

I’m so glad you discussed the stored input information thing. I first learnt about it when I had to do a low kick into a Z input, the fact you can press the kick halfway through the Z still blows my mind

[@modnarnosrep1822]

10:57 my favourite line in this video.

[@devin6420]

This video popped into my recommended and gained you a new subscriber, as well as a new perspective on combos in fighters in general. As a grappler main I'm used to looking for and learning the breaks in combos but never really learning more complex combos than heavy into command grab basically.

[@AllAroundEd]

Dont have a single clue what you’re talking about but i just like listening

[@peterbrooke7146]

A Leon Massey video without sarcasm or a guilty gear refferance would be like going to your grandmas house and she doesn't even ask if you're hungry or offer you any biscuits.

[@FlameJackstar]

Can't wait for the TFH video.

[@SquidwardProfilePic]

I love fighting games, but my favorite aspect of fighting games is the process of going from throwing out random specials in hopes that they land, to actually figuring out how to combo into those moves. Garou MOTW was one of my favorite games to learn because throwing out big crazy moves randomly with my friends was very fun, but actually doing cool little combos was very satisfying and fulfilling, but I still enjoyed just throwing stuff out because of how explosive that game is, everything looks cool whether u combo or go in hot.

[@red6775]

I've always felt as if the problem with new people getting into fighting game was a more lack of information then a execution floor. Auto combos just feel as if the skill gap in the game is lower for basically no reason.

[@BiggBossChanel]

tfw leon ALMOST talks about blazblue

[@nebiyuesayas5600]

Here you are talking about combo mechanics, and while I understand it all (my brain recently expanded enough to get better at FGs), I'm still stuck on the equivalent of SFV's "medium, medium, special" combos.

[@animeprofilepicture8855]

buffer

[@Eji1700]

Ramblings about things i was hoping you'd mention- 1. RT- Making specials easier with a large buffer on links really helped open up "the game" for people who didn't know much else without vastly expanding the movelist. As always it's a shame that it died and I have little hope for Project L at this point. 2. KI- I know you hate it but given we're talking combo systems, there's something kinda brilliant in what these games did. The most recent especially was a very elegant system, that is really only hindered by it's appearance of complexity, when in reality the base system is "get a hit, hit a button, hit a special, hit a button, end it" and yet from that (and the built in combo breakers) they built something so personal and crazy. 3. Smash- I think it's hard to overstate how brilliant smash is for casuals. Quick, your opponents jumping at you and you've never played this game before? How do you anti air them. Well if you're a hopeless fighting game fuck like us you're looking at something like down heavy which makes NO FUCKING SENSE, but in smash, you hit UP. Either you jump at them or you uair them or you up tilt or up smash or up special but holy shit to hit the guy above me i hit up and it took us as a species HOW LONG TO FIGURE THIS OUT? Having combos mostly be "hit them with the next move if you can" opens up even beginners to stringing things together. Its just a shame that melee kefka'd the well with egregious as fuck execution barriers. I still think Rivals of Aether is the direction the genre should be heading, and if smash didn't have a mixture of AAA inertia and elitism pushing it forward we'd be better off.

[@mAceOfHearts]

This was a great video, even though it really was not what I figured it would focus on based on the title. I was expecting it to be more about how the variety in options some combo systems give you can affect people's enjoyment of those games. Like how having access to a variant for increased damage if going for the kill, or better oki if going for a repeat of the situation, or sideswapping, or corner carry, or just looking stylish would allow for a ton of variety and give players a greater sense of freedom. Especially since it would give you a perfect chance to compare Strive's far more limited combo system to Xrd's more free-form stuff (but you found a way to sneak that in anyway, so fair play to ya' lol).

[@cloudmaster47]

That needle comparison was perfect, loved the video

[@chinrong1988]

1:40 combo of changing color tshirt, now that's cool! 🤣

[@notimeforcreativenamesjust3034]

The all mighty shirt cancel

[@WhoIsSirChasm]

Oh, my heart warms whenever I see a Bob player.

[@lewissteward65]

Ew - anybody who played tekken 6

[@aaronmikeborda3777]

Having come from DBFZ, what I miss most in Strive is that variety normal cancelling provides, and the reward it can offer. Learning Gohan leg loops (yes Ik, I'm awful) was hard, but also fun to have for the corner as opposed to midscreen. That route's reward aside, being given a full combo from a read or mix and landing 2M was so satisfying. It was rare I just got a stray hit. I realize Xrd and AC+R aren't long combo games at high level and buttons are omitted, strings shortened for oki, plus many characters aren't just /given/ combos like DBFZ, but the fact I /can't/ do a long combo leaves me wanting a bit. If I take my turn back with P, I don't want to just get hit by Sol's f.S again, I want my combo.

[@notimeforcreativenamesjust3034]

Remember they did this for BEG DAMAGE, I would be happy for strive if they 1 Brought back more moves from older games (looking at you faust, Ram, and Anji) 2 Made stages longer (you say you want more neutral interaction but the stages are so short?) 3 Bring back Gatlings 4 Completely change Ky, Eddie, and Mays new character designs

[@sansire746]

@@notimeforcreativenamesjust3034 what's wrong with ky and eddie, ky is pretty simple without being oppresive like most beginner and eddie is unique, may is pretty obnoxious tho

[@notimeforcreativenamesjust3034]

@@sansire746 Kys new designs kinda doesnt fit Eddie looks stupid now May... well you already know about may

[@sansire746]

@@notimeforcreativenamesjust3034 oh I thought you were talking about gameplay, now I disagree with all of them, I think they all looks great

[@chaotixsolution5057]

Damn man he really did kick the router huh 19:16

[@grantcactus9973]

Auto combos being the building block for players to start trying other things from is part of why I’m glad I really started fighting games off with blazblue crosstag battle. The auto combos made it easy at the start, I could just mash the button and get damage. It gave me time to understand and start working specials into that and working on what makes different combos good in different situations

[@TheGameMan76]

I love how consistent everyone hates smash but its just different. It's like trying to compare cod and halo though. Honestly though love the content you are what keeps me playing other fighting games than just smash. You help me understand and learn not to just look at any other fighting game and expect 10 hours of work for damage so keep it up.

[@PurpleFreezerPage]

Great video Leon. I hope you keep working on these analytical videos giving examples and explaining abstract game design concepts. This channel WILL grow if you do so. Though I am disappointed this video wasn't about what the title and thumbnail implied. I thought it was gonna be about why you use certain combos over others. Damage, oki, safety.. it's a great topic I would've LOVED to see! I've always wondered about it.

[@MansMan42069]

Combo Variety =/= Combo Utility Having many combos yet half of them are weak and useless just shows a lack of forethought.

[@hijster479]

Having a wide variety of combos means that players can gradually improve their execution while playing and then learn harder combos as they go. Games that try to streamline combos overall often create difficult spikes and/or homogeneous combo theory.

[@MansMan42069]

@@hijster479 Name some examples

[@hijster479]

@@MansMan42069 UNI and to a lesser extent VF are examples of good combo variety imo. DBFZ and Strive are examples of poor combo variety. In the former group combo tools have specific applications but they can vary between characters and players. Every character uses the same concepts in different ways, so while experience with one character can help, its still somewhat challenging and rewarding to learn new characters. You can start simple and gradually improve your combos at your own pace. When I started playing UNIST I did the same combos regardless of screen position or counter hit, and the most difficult execution I was doing was buffering dashing normals. Now I know combos for specific screen positions, counter hit and GRD break confirms, VO routes, and even routes that lead to safejumps. In the latter group combo tools are much more streamlined, to the point that most of the cast can do the same bnb in DBFZ. I don't mean that they share vaguely the same structure, it's literally the exact same inputs functioning in the exact same way, in the exact same situations. Mechanics like Vanish and RRC allow more combo variety, but they do so by overwriting move properties, making combos feel even less unique.

[@MansMan42069]

@@hijster479 For me, variety for the sake of variety is bad design. There must be a reason why I would do one combo over another regardless of execution. I would rather have limited combos yet have each one of those combos be meaningful in its intended outcome and the conditions that allow it to be executed. In SFV, combos can be for resource gain, sideswitching, corner carry, damage, etc. Limited as the system may be, it means all of them are meaningful. Players make the conscious effort to decide why they do combo A instead of B, which is a more tangible expression of self because it creates the outcome they want and reflects how they're trying to win. I think this emphasis on how combos are done rather than why combos are done is what's blinding some people.

[@hijster479]

@@MansMan42069 I think SFV is a bad example. When compared to older SF games V is much less limiting when it comes to combos. Between VT, VS, and CC overall characters have way more combo options with less of an execution barrier. Even characters like Guile and Dhalsim can occasionally do lengthy combos. And it's not like suboptimal routes don't exist in SFV. It's disingenuous to only include practical combos and then say every combo has a meaningful purpose. I need to ask, what games are you talking about that have variety for varieties sake?

[@xanderac]

I just got home from a stressful day of work, I've been looking forward to this video all day, love your content dude

[@dorcasmutton6335]

I like how they did the autocombo in Under Night a lot, because if you do it as a blockstring the moves actually push your opponent a lot more than what they usually would, so you can use it for spacing and pushing through an opponent's block.

[@nrdypirategaming8517]

“Doing motion inputs on a pad feels eldritch” Me with 2000 hours in dragon ball fighterz ONLY using the dpad on an Xbox controller

[@ArborDaze]

Thank you for being the antidote to my depression, if only for 20 minutes here and there. Your content and attitude always make my day better.

[@toadgang8193]

The more you reference Kyanta 2 in these videos the more I like them. Keep up the good work!

[@Diorphe]

Yo! you wanna learn how to do a F*king infinite!?

[@Diorphe]

then you hit LIGHT PUNCH

[@Diorphe]

MEDIUM PUNCH (thats light punch twice)

[@Diorphe]

LIGHT KICK

[@Diorphe]

HEAVY PUNCH

[@Diorphe]

Hold diagonal whichever way you are F*king going

[@magingloon]

Was working out when this autoplayed off a Potemkin clip. Great opening joke and great content, listened all the way through. Hope more people find ya

[@RandoDusty]

But Leon, I've already played Ultrakill :(

[@thekolonel5551]

I have to say I loved Leon, I was watching- I was watching various FGC KZbinrs, and I saw Leon. The great Leon Massey. He did the Fighting game analysis videos, and he talked about the St- the famous Guilty Gear Strive review, he said "It's ready when it's ready." And we like that, "it's ready when it's ready" but great work ethic.

[@chillmadude]

i never noticed the very subtle name of "Play Ultrakill" until now

[@magna7446]

And then there is the combo variety of games like mk11 . . . . There isn't.

[@RoyArkon]

Combo variety is there, just not with every character. Play chars like Noob Saibot or Fujin and you get a ton of variety. Learn your facts before making shitty comments #FACTS

[@pigeondreams7346]

Combos are, for me, the great barrier of fighting games, and this video is super helpful in understanding them! So thank you!

[@TBDEventually]

I love grinding combos in fighting games its the first thing I do when playing for the first time and its how i learn the combo structure. I always get stuck in the tier where everyone else has those combos and im the guy who cant do anything else :(

[@nozomashii821]

I could do that street fighter 3 combo, i once did a true input for hadouken in smash :smirk:

[@proudal8963]

Thanks for actually explaining instead of just "Oh you just gotta play more."