Come to Jail With Us. You’ll Need a Calculator. | NYT Opinion

[@desmond-hawkins]

It's not an accident that the 13th amendment abolished slavery _except_ as punishment for a crime. What else would you call a job that pays 42 cents an hour?

[@DAndyLord]

The only difference is that a prisoner can /technically/ say no and can't be sold as chattel.

[@CharlesRaines4946]

You mean except for a dead end job without a future?

[@desmond-hawkins]

@@DAndyLord Technically say no? It depends where they are: in four states (Texas, Georgia, Alabama, Arkansas), inmates are usually *required* to work and can be punished if they refuse, like sent to solitary confinement. Work is usually *mandatory and completely unpaid.* In Texas, 80 PIECP inmates are paid and the remaining 140k+ are *all unpaid.* Zero dollars per hour. And they can't be sold? What do you think a prison transfer is, to go work for free somewhere else? Read about all this and learn, it's a terrible system. Again: it's not an accident.

[@pointyposeidon]

Not slavery... Because its OPTIONAL.

[@ValidatingUsername]

@@DAndyLordJust a reminder the chattel part of the law was meant in terms of legal liability for the owner as in if the slave caused any damage it was similar liability and case law.

[@ca8rio8ca]

Co-pay for health costs inside a prison is the most American thing I've ever heard of!

[@BIGBUBBAAAAA]

With a McDonald's nurse and a obese Warden

[@theotheleo6830]

Better the criminal pays it than the already overburdened taxpayer.

[@ca8rio8ca]

@@theotheleo6830 a universal health system it's better

[@soulscanner66]

@@theotheleo6830 It will cost the taxpayer more because the prisoner will be in prison longer. Typical government bureaucracy.

[@derimmerlugt3032]

@@theotheleo6830 If he ends up in prison again because he can't pay the debt he accrued in prison then you will pay anyway lmao. And that's entirely by design. Recurring "customers" are good for business.

[@Anavski]

Almost as if it was designed to keep them in prison

[@orcast1046]

Good don't be useless to society then

[@Twigjit]

@@orcast1046 Yeah, seems like that is your job and you dont want to lose it to someone else.

[@rb95051]

Not almost, exactly how it is…. Sad!😔

[@anonemus2971]

It is designed to keep people paying forever

[@billf1748]

This is what you get when prisons are run by for-profit corporations. Tax payers and society lose.

[@ingridm4910]

That's so crazy that they're paid .42 cents and then expected to pay inflated prices. This is not how we expect people not to fall back into crime when they get out

[@777GabrielGP_moneyYHVH]

They should create a program in which generous people, such as Ingrid, adopted a poor criminal or two into their homes.

[@KellyR-qx7wn]

It's so crazy that people are upset that they are only required to pay a fraction of their debt to society, where every hardworking lawful tax payer should be upset they're not required to pay the full cost.

[@lsmith8659]

where every hardworking lawful taxpayer knows theyve also done something illegal at least once in their life but hadnt been caught 🐷🐷 ftp

[@ramonsmediablog]

They are lucky to get anything.

[@ConfusedBoombox-vu4oh]

Its to keep people in, you dont make a profit if there are no criminals to lock up.

[@benoody6766]

I had to pay all that to prove I was innocent. Justice system is so broken.

[@jay_m4160]

I am so sorry you went through this.

[@ffc1a28c7]

@@Dorton-fj6ox what, because he of the around 50% of people who are either found not guilty, or whose cases get thrown out?

[@Dorton-fj6ox]

@@ffc1a28c7 Liar.

[@tiberiussempronious6252]

​@@Dorton-fj6ox- So no one ever makes a mistake and innocent people are charged with crimes they didn't commit? You have the mind of a 5 year old.

[@Dorton-fj6ox]

@tiberiussempronious6252 Obviously you have zero professional training, knowledge, experience, or skills in this area. I don't have ANY of those problems. So when I tell you that you know nothing, it's because you know nothing. You know LESS than nothing.

[@chad9971]

It's expensive to be poor.

[@TheAlgomalo]

You can be poor and not break the law. I grew up very poor and never had any trouble with the law.

[@oceandinner]

Thats the problem in this world everyone excepts free hand out ! Ppl keep relying on the government you never get out of the cycle many people become to comfortable. So many people use every excuse I can’t work I can’t go to school bla blah I bet many can bleed the system claim workers comp lie fake injuries many fraud the insurance companies for money stealing lying! Life of a narcissist. Younger generation needs to break the cycle! Problem is people who are poor. Shouldn’t be having children having children when you are poor as a tragedy!! It’s childhood trauma! If grown adults can’t afford themselves then stop reproducing. 99.9% of prison population many I bet struggle with mental illness ADHD, misconduct disorder, borderline personality, disorder, bipolar disorder, Many not knowing how to regulate their own emotions Many not fitting in and when they found themselves fitting in They were manipulated many ppl come from poor home environments. Children are a product of their own environment. 97.% of the prison population lack communication skills comprehension, and reading skills as well. It’s easy for them to just commit crimes or get into fights because they don’t know how to communicate their emotions correctly.

[@techcafe0]

indeed, poverty takes a huge toll on a person's mental and physical well-being, and often leads to premature death.

[@acd1168]

@@techcafe0I think it’s the worse thing that can happen to someone. Growing up poor

[@digojez]

​@@TheAlgomaloI am aware that avoiding law breaking is the right move, but not everyone can avoid being in trouble with the law, even if they have learned their lesson, it would take monumental effort to recover from the isolation in prison and an extra punishment debt. It's literally a recipe for disaster for everyone else, because people who came out of prison in that state is more likely to commit another crime (whether out of psychological trouble and monetary struggle).

[@blueknight3393]

This is the modern day debtor’s prison.

[@lsmith8659]

when they system was first built for the purpose of entrapping the non-white man, now inadvertently white men have also become entapped.. finally we take notice 😂

[@Libertaro-i2u]

The 18th century has returned in that regard

[@benwagner5089]

@@Libertaro-i2u I don't think it ever left.

[@Rocanala]

Perfectly legal. People choose to commit crimes.

[@xanthonjp]

This is not rehabilitation.

[@orcast1046]

Good don't be useless to society then

[@newbladey]

@@orcast1046 that's crazy, why didn't they think of that?

[@lonesome3958]

​@@orcast1046do you know what rehabilitation means?

[@rundown132]

its a business

[@100bulletsmiranda9]

jesus is stuck in a computer.

[@joshxkerrigan]

The PRIVATE prison system, like everything else in this country, is completely RUINING it for us. Private companies profiting off of prisoners means there will ALWAYS need to be prisoners to sustain the business. THIS is why prisons & jails should be setup by the GOVERNMENT, NOT CORPORATIONS.

[@meekacee3530]

absolutely true. Private prisons should not exist

[@rudradixit460]

This is describing government prisons.

[@Libertaro-i2u]

Prisons are one of the things that shouldn't be privatized

[@meekacee3530]

@@rudradixit460 yes, you are right. This should not be happening. I thought it only happened in private prisons. Eye opening

[@scottrobinson9334]

It does only happen in private prisons. I live in a state that doesn’t have private prisons, when I was younger I was in and out of jail and everyone I knew from then served time. All any of us ever were charged are fines imposed upon conviction, restitution, and the probation/parole officer. In our state none of these other fees exist

[@V3racious3]

It's all about money. Its always about money.

[@terywetherlow7970]

Govt. pays them too. Double dipping?

[@jamesmorell1758]

Double dipping? You pay taxes on everything. You pay income tax and then sales tax on top of that. You're never not getting double, triple, quadruple dipped. Everyone gets ripped off, even government employees.

[@pman3293]

Money is a powerful force that creates control.

[@RealHomeRecording]

​@@pman3293indeed. Money buys weapons buys armies buys control.

[@AluminumOxide]

It’s what happens when a country’s ideologies revolve and idolize money.

[@nebularspace]

no idea this was happening

[@coreyswaz5702]

Its not all states, im from NY and they pay for everything necessary while incarcerated. The only thing you need to pay yourself is phone calls and commissary. You CAN survive with the minimum things they give you but its not a joyful stay. If you work in the kitchen you can charge inmates for spices, laundry you charge inmates for doing a wash and fold service, etc. you’ll make more money “working for yourself” than for the jail…

[@limbeboy7]

Well let's blame immigrants. Not the 1% that own 50% of the wealth. Let's blame ppl who make less than 35k a year

[@poppasmurf2044]

​@Joe-sg9ll what do you mean? It IS definitely happening!

[@poppasmurf2044]

@@Joe-sg9ll yep...I can be obtuse as well 🤣

[@neliii_brr]

I thought our tax dollars was funding… ig🤷🏾‍♀️

[@andergarcia4953]

Prisoners are still charged for their stay at the prison. So why are the tax payers money still going to these places?

[@goldenfish5390]

So the prison companies get to be monopolies.

[@gregheffley2]

It costs way more than $0.60 per day to house a prisoner.

[@voradorhylden3410]

​@@gregheffley2not when theres millions of them and the conditions are crap, and you charge the crap out of them and dont face consequences for poor care and treatment, not to mention the poor condition of the jail itself. Ive seen and hea4d of some pretty bad stuff. Point being, its a puypy farm with people. They only spend 60 cents a person. While getting paid billions.

[@poppasmurf2044]

Obviously, someone is pocketing the money. I wonder who...

[@PraetorianAU]

Time to wake up America. You dont have a country, you have a corporation.

[@EmeraldsQuartzLight]

Yeah, but we also have these corporations giving people that killed someone 2 years in jail.

[@terywetherlow7970]

@@PraetorianAU Ralph Nader published a book on Corps. late 90's. It really explains this b.s. perfectly.

[@gucciflipflopbleep]

Cyberpunk 2077 predicted it all

[@m.eladraoui2649]

So glad I live 5000 miles from the US. Americans live in a dystopian system without even noticing.

[@terywetherlow7970]

@@m.eladraoui2649 oh,we notice it. We are constantly forking over Taxes to help every other Countries shortfalls.

[@jvees7916]

Cool we don’t need people like you

[@Akoba23benin]

​@@terywetherlow7970after stealing from them or murdering them in cold blood. You're monsters

[@jakeelwood612]

Video is not true , at least for California I don't know what state this is they are talking about I been to jail and prison and never had to pay a dime they gave me 200$ when I got out and did not have to pay it back.

[@terywetherlow7970]

@@jakeelwood612 What year are you talking Cali paid you $200?

[@michaelhodgkins3540]

I've heard of this but never seen a report, thank you for bringing this issue up

[@Debra-q2u8k]

Yes, this is happening for years and it needs to stop

[@user-gu9yq5sj7c]

Watch More Perfect Union and Second Thought talk about prisoners being treated like slaves. Watch the Market Exit.

[@matthewleys6504]

This insight is long overdue. The family members who have to pay for this have never been accused, charged, much less convicted yet they too are at the mercy of the DOC

[@homelessalcoholic2716]

The family doesn't HAVE to pay anything.

[@NatoSkato]

@@homelessalcoholic2716 Just like how in extortion cases the victim doesn't HAVE to pay up.

[@homelessalcoholic2716]

@@NatoSkato Except the family isn't at risk like an extortion case, they could just let their relative pay for their own crimes.

[@missmia196]

​@@homelessalcoholic2716 except if you do care about your loved one, you are extorted to pay to see them and communicate with them and provide for their life behind bars.

[@homelessalcoholic2716]

@missmia196 Why support monsters?

[@andreyromashchenko8967]

One time cops stopped me and detained me because i partly matched the description. And i was all they had. The amount of stress i had to thru with each court appointment was unfair. And the public defender said that i should plead guilty to get a good deal. THAT’S ALL YOU HAVE TO KNOW ABOUT THEM MAKING A CUSTOMER OUT OF YOU. (eventually i was free to go, but oh my god, how did i deserve any of that?)

[@benwagner5089]

When a public DEFENDER refuses to do their job, settling to just get you a reduced sentence, I'd be reporting that to the judge and seeing if I can get that lawyer disbarred. A friend of mine just experienced that himself, and they're waiting months for another public defender to become available so they can finally start the trial.

[@Steven-le5oc]

Detained for looking alike to discussion of a plea with a public defender? There are a few steps missing here. You don't go from detained to trial/plea

[@colorfulchrissy74747]

The American prison system is a perfect example of human trafficking, especially when prisons are selling $500+ office chairs within state departments.

[@shaniece1300]

I was thinking that. The prison system is so similar to trafficking. They are working to get their freedom but in reality, they're trafficked. It's a lie. It's a trap

[@jksanrio]

Welcome to the revolving door of the CJS.

[@Libertaro-i2u]

AKA the PIC (prison industrial complex)

[@bipolarmomandnowwhat]

I was an adult probation officer and the idea of community corrections was good. However, it has become corrupted and is now a scam.

[@AntonioSalinas-p5d]

The connection between high incarceration rates and the use of prison labor in the United States has been widely criticized as a system that exploits inmates for cheap labor. This system, often referred to as the “prison-industrial complex,” has economic incentives that benefit both government entities and private corporations. Here’s a summary of how this system operates: 1. Incarceration as a Labor Source Many states allow inmates to work for private companies or on public projects at very low wages, sometimes as low as a few cents per hour. Prisoners are often employed in manufacturing, agricultural work, and service industries, including packaging products or operating call centers. One notable example is the use of inmate labor to produce goods or services for companies such as McDonald’s and Walmart through third-party contractors or suppliers. 2. Economic Incentives for States and Companies • For the state: Governments reduce labor costs by using prison labor for public works, such as road maintenance or sanitation. Prisoners do not have the same labor protections, and since their wages are so low, they generate significant savings for states. • For companies: Partnering with prison labor programs offers an inexpensive workforce, as inmates do not receive benefits, and wages are often controlled by the correctional system. This reduces production costs and boosts corporate profits. 3. Mandatory Labor and Inmate Rights Incarcerated individuals are often compelled to work under threat of punishment, such as solitary confinement or loss of privileges. Unlike other laborers, they have limited ability to refuse work or bargain for better conditions. In many cases, inmates work under unsafe conditions, with little oversight or recourse for labor violations. 4. Privatized Prisons and Recidivism Private prisons and companies with a stake in the system have an incentive to maintain or increase incarceration rates. Policies like harsh sentencing laws, such as the war on drugs, minimum sentencing requirements, and parole restrictions, contribute to high incarceration rates. This ensures a steady flow of labor to sustain the system. 5. Impact on Communities and Society This system disproportionately impacts marginalized communities, especially people of color. It perpetuates cycles of poverty and incarceration by exploiting inmates while offering them little in the way of rehabilitation or meaningful employment skills upon release. For more in-depth insights on the prison-industrial complex and the role of corporate interests in mass incarceration, sources such as The Sentencing Project, ACLU reports, and research from academic institutions like Columbia University offer detailed analysis. These resources document the exploitation within the system and provide recommendations for reform. This issue is a stark example of how the justice system, driven by economic motives, has created structural injustices that treat incarceration as both a means of social control and a tool for profit-making. That’s why southern states are big on law and order the prison and jails are their modern day plantations. And they get a boost by arresting and discrediting future voters

[@lsmith8659]

thank for providing that info! too many ppl are unaware! this is why they work so hard to demonize criminals smh this system is bad for everyone but the money makers 🤬 and now they doin it to immigrants too with the border industrial complex as a way to justify mass surveillance 😱

[@Michael-j4l3d]

Go look up what the democratic candidate said about the "cheap Iābour" *I'm just sayin*

[@Libertaro-i2u]

I'm all for inmates working, but living and working conditions should be humane.

[@Renni-kg6vf]

The US prison system is a microcosm of literally every major issue in the US.

[@silverXnoise]

Check out the exploitation taking place surrounding offenders’ families, and their ability to communicate and/or visit their loved one during incarceration. Hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians being extorted, every day, right now.

[@Kataharrison6974]

It’s emotional blackmail for MONEY.

[@unitedskiesunderthemoon]

Never say America is the land of the free again. jfc this is pure insanity

[@landline00]

Then why do migrants from all over the world want to come here?

[@bestredditstories1158]

Considering the vast majority of us are free and that it's very easy to not go to prison, I'd say it still holds true.

[@jakekaywell5972]

@@bestredditstories1158 The US still has the largest prison population in the world despite only being the third most-populous nation by a WIDE margin. It is also all too easy to end up in prison through no fault of your own.

[@JD-mm7ur]

that's why we don't need a 'businessman' to run our country like a corporation

[@zenjon7892]

But... He didn't start this

[@georgewagner7787]

So lets elect the person who put people in prison for marijuana?

[@georgewagner7787]

So let's elect the person who put people in prison for marijuana??

[@Cmac-jk8zz]

​@@zenjon7892it doesnt matter he's not gonna make it any better.

[@zenjon7892]

@@Cmac-jk8zz I'm starting to think no one will make it better; too much money involved

[@JeighNeither]

Anytime the NYTs, the periodical for & by the wealthy, calls out the fact that it's the rich vs the poor, it's a good thing.

[@Shibasu_]

This is so ridiculous. Going to prison IS their punishment, they don't need an extra punishment after they get out

[@piouspigeon9327]

Yeah they do…. They keep committing crimes.

[@joemacy2776]

It's sad that so many people forget the fact that prisoners are still human. If it just lands people back in prison, then it shows that our justice system is doing something wrong. Prison should be about giving criminals the tools to not commit crimes again, but it basically does the opposite in this country.

[@misstbull]

What tools they need??????? They found a way to commit the crime so they could have found a way NOT TO COMMOT A CRIME. ITS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE!

[@comentariopolitico1014]

Hahahahahahaha! Oh, wait! Are you serious? Let me laugh even harder. HAHAHA HAHAHA HAHAHA HAHAHA!

[@EmeraldsQuartzLight]

Imagine if your daughter or son gets hurt by a innocent little criminal, and you'll be two brainwashed to fight for them.

[@terywetherlow7970]

@@strangelyukrainian7314 Ding, ding,ding!! Best comment yet.

[@GrowWildOutdoors]

Maybe this should be played in high schools before juveniles can be charged as adults. Solid reality check.

[@teen5089]

Went over your head.

[@acepilotson3331]

@@teen5089what did they miss? 😂

[@GrowWildOutdoors]

@@teen5089 Not at all. I've worked with at-risk youth & law enforcement my entire career.

[@Kataharrison6974]

Stop US funded slavery.

[@interestsavvy6813]

Yes. No juve to be tried as adults

[@jerlewis4291]

Geez, and let's not forget how much more these fees are in private prisons where they can literally add a fee for anything. Then they farm out the inmate labor to produce goods that the public buys at ultra low cost making the companies that contract the labor even more money.

[@chrisbgood2359]

Good point. This video is not accurate for NY prisons. I wish this video would be more specific about the states that have these policies and whether or not they are privately funded. This message is disingenuous and bias because it paints all prison systems withbone brush.

[@jerlewis4291]

@@chrisbgood2359 Yes, the Prison Industrial Complex is bigger than most people believe

[@pendlera2959]

@@chrisbgood2359 A problem doesn't need to be ubiquitous to be worth solving. It's happening in lots of prisons across many states. It needs to stop immediately.

[@ManMountainMetals]

1 point you got wrong is prisons don't produce consumer goods but things like military uniforms and license plates.

[@johnnygoodman2003]

To everyone saying "solution is don't do crime" the state of Tennessee is now investigating dui police quotas where last year 600 sober drivers were arrested for drunk driving and some went to jail. The state makes money from crime, when profits are down, innocent people go to jail, defend and release, and still end up with debt.

[@bestredditstories1158]

But you still have rights. They still have to prove the crime they're alleging you committed.

[@somethingelse9228]

@@bestredditstories1158 Court cases and appeals cost money, none of which will be refunded if proven innocent. That's the point, the state and corporations are earning enormous profits from this

[@lanceweinert2590]

✋56k owed in fines to Illinois for my "lock up" smh glad you guys are bringing this issue to light.

[@hinatagirl33]

The American Exceptionalism is so prevalent in our incarceration system. We don’t believe in rehabilitation but punishment. What an informative video!

[@jiffyb333]

I had no idea about so many of these costs, absolutely crazy! Thank you for shedding light on this.

[@Pserene47]

What a criminal system!! The justice system should be incarcerated for predatory practices.

[@PhilemonsMusic]

A rather deep comment.

[@afghans0ldier]

Thank god I live in Denmark. Here when you goto Jail or get a public defender it is FREE. Even when you are out of jail, there are you no bills!

[@tylerkinley268]

You have a much different approach to incarceration, and lower recidivism. Almost like you want them to be successful. We can't tolerate that in America. Seeing a criminal succeed seems to make people angry lol.

[@dragonwitch27]

@tylerkinley268 they also have a SIGNIFICANTLY smaller population (both incarcerated and in general). The US prison system most certainly needs reform, but some of things that Europeans enjoy aren’t really feasible when you have 100s of millions of people.

[@mastermati773]

I’m not surprised. We are talking about the only country to oppose the idea that food is a basic human right.

[@06howea1]

Thank you for raising awareness

[@Psychoactive_Music]

I am paying off over $4600 right now for 7 months in jail and some probation. I have $0 in restitution because there was no actual victim in the crime. Just the "State of Florida". If the "State" is the only "victim", it's not really a "crime", just money extraction. I own what I did, it was just stupid, but the fees are absolutely ridiculous.

[@Psychoactive_Music]

And don't get me started on the poor families of inmates and the commissary and telephone systems. The families are the ones being punished, not the inmates.

[@Mirandanns]

What did you do?

[@austinballard6815]

any way you could move from the state? that would make it exceptionally hard for them to enforce/garner anything you make once you're outside jurisdiction...I'm not saying it would absolve everything but it certainly would make it much harder for the State to force payment or arrest you once you're not within their jurisdiction anymore.

[@KellyR-qx7wn]

7 Months in jail cost the taxpayers way over $4600. You're lucky the US system of 'justice' finds the taxpayers guilty for your debt you caused with your criminal activity.

[@austinballard6815]

@@KellyR-qx7wn do you get blood out of an onion?

[@mikemondano3624]

This is largely because of the Puritan background of most Americans. Rehabilitation is the stated goal, but revenge is the real one. Some European countries are abolishing prisons altogether. Norway's model system with almost no recidivism has "prisons" that are like small communities where inmates learn how to live in a society normally and productively.

[@georgewagner7787]

No. Rehabilitación Punishment not revenge Deterrence

[@Libertaro-i2u]

The conservatives keep prisons inhumane. While the Nordic system wouldn't work in America, we could stand to learn something from that model.

[@VonSly]

So there are no prisons for violent offenders either?

[@tylerkinley268]

​@@Libertaro-i2uhonestly the current model is failing anyway. I'm not sure how we could do any worse considering the recidivism and crime rate.

[@jodycarter7308]

Thx for shining light on this.

[@anvi.a8976]

Great journalism! I remember doing a High School presentation on criminal recidivism.

[@jenniferburns2530]

I was aware of the ridiculous fees for phone calls and commissary and the obscenely low wages. Co-pays for healthcare? Bills for public defenders? All the other fees? There is no way anyone who doesn't start out with personal or family wealth to leave prison without debt.

[@DutchBikeGuy]

I have a solution to all of this: Don't be a criminal!

[@dragskcinnay3184]

What about innocent people in prison?

[@DutchBikeGuy]

@@dragskcinnay3184that’s an American problem. It happens too often that innocent people end up locked up. Such a Third World Country

[@dragskcinnay3184]

@@DutchBikeGuy I meaaaaan... it happens in all countries to a degree, but sure, it probably happens in the US more often than it should

[@shirleyjhaney1041]

I thought public defenders were free. I see absolutely no reason that outside of egregious financial crimes and restitution to victims people should be fined and I agree this sounds deeply unfair; calls cannot be charged bc isolation is illegal; room and board charges and food charges represent cruel and unusual punishment; commissary should really be at cost. This is outrageous. It would probably be incredibly easy given disparities in the system which technically many people pay for with time energy and so on landing hypothetically some people in prison and then additionally hammering them with money fees…. Someone can make this stop I think. Also you can’t send someone to jail for not paying this in all likelihood unless IMO they committed a financial crime or are paying restitution to a victim. Plus don’t we seize often enough their assets involved in a crime and shouldn’t that rectify something financial? This sounds criminally bad to me.

[@wendezzy554]

Only in certain states

[@silverXnoise]

Ha! Only if you win your case. Look up conviction rates for any district in the nation, and see the problem writ large.

[@silverXnoise]

“…don’t seize enough assets”? This is even funnier. We seize a ton of assets, a lot of which is never tied to crime, we seize it anyway. Civil asset forfeiture. It’s wildly abused, so just imagine what LE forces do when there is an actual justification?

[@shirleyjhaney1041]

@@silverXnoise you know if commenting on a progressive cause means I get crackpot commenting from sloppy people I just don’t know if it’s worth it

[@shirleyjhaney1041]

Don’t ppl have a certain amount of time to contest it and it costs money to store things and to resell them even so frankly I doubt we do substantial forfeiture deserved or not- the prison system by it’s nature Isn’t going to be helped by becoming or being a for profit system; it doesn’t need innovation it just needs reasonable standards and although dinging people with fees may be substantial I doubt it’s really necessary- an American probably wouldn’t say that for profit prison run by business people is a bad idea but I think ironically it’s readily apparent it’s a stupid idea at the outset

[@JuveZavala]

Arrest the politicians that allow this to continue in every state

[@NorthSeaWisdom]

This is a Red state issue…Republicans bewail crime statistics at any opportunity they have but only have themselves to blame

[@mohammedshahjehan9135]

What happens though if you don't/can't pay????? They gon make you homeless in jail 😂😂😂

[@dirkhamilton2709]

No soap, shampoo, no food, no antibiotics for infections. Thats what. Oh, not pads or tampons for female inmates, and no way to wash your bloody clothes either. You do NOT get a fresh pair of underwear, or even a shower every day.

[@benwagner5089]

Working earns 0.42 USD/hour (before garnishments) Placing phone calls cost 0.14 USD/min, 30 minute calls, 4 times/week. He has to work for an hour to talk for 3 minutes, so 10 hours per call. That's a 40 hour workweek just cover his phone calls. Nothing else.

[@ekiti]

What happend to taxpayers money? 🤔

[@AhmadShah-oz5wu]

Gone to lsraile

[@pualanalstyle]

Eye-opening. Thank you.

[@2Burgers_1Pizza]

I wouldn't expect for an entire judicial system to improve rehabilitation overnight, which makes the inmate's wage the real issue here.

[@precooked-bacon]

if wage is too reasonable some may be incentivized to stay in prison

[@Kataharrison6974]

Fair wages then for ALL human beings.

[@reddragonflyxx657]

​@@precooked-baconIf the wage is unreasonable prisons may be incentivized to keep inmates. Plus if they get out in debt they may be incentivized to commit more crimes (which is a well documented issue mentioned in this video, US recidivism rates are too high).

[@-gundy-187]

@@reddragonflyxx657why not pay them fair wages until they are out of debt and reduce their wage just enought to keep them debt free until their release? Like this they don't walk out with money but without debt either.

[@Carmen-.-]

This show how the system is rigged by design. Now how many of those people shouldn’t even really be in there?

[@georgewagner7787]

5 percent?

[@jec_ecart]

What kind of dystopian world is this! Utter shame on the administrators. 😡 😮

[@mymobilebuddy4392]

I still owe 3 grand. I refuse to pay it. I left the state.

[@jay_m4160]

I’m so sorry you went through this ❤

[@nathandennis8078]

A Warrant in the works I see

[@tylerkinley268]

​@@nathandennis8078ha! I almost never pay fines or fees. Once it goes to collections I just call and say "I got X amount, take it or leave it", and they always do. I have no obligation to a society that I'm excluded from.

[@realKarlFranz]

I hope that the law makes you pay the 3 grand.

[@GorgieClarissa]

"my whole life i feel like they've set me up for failure'' it's so interesting to see and hear this and then listen to how much each person owes... and then i look at my student loan debt and the insanely high interest rate and can't help but make the legit comparisons.

[@UK-sm4co]

Really? I thought the public defender's were provided totally FREE to them and it was the government that paid their bills. oh wow! an eye opener indeed

[@TaCC2]

prisoners being charged for their stay in prison yet the taxpayers give billions of dollars to the private prison industry every year

[@nilsp9426]

If a society does not invest in rehabilitation of prisoners, it invests in a mounting problem instead. Both with money and a lack of safety.

[@tomwalsh96]

What a lovely country you folks have...

[@V3racious3]

A new meaning to debtor's prison.

[@_clarkey]

America… rawwwhh 🦅🦅🇺🇸🇺🇸

[@scipioafricanus4875]

This is criminal both parties must be responsible for this

[@motswaps]

A never ending cycle,then they have the nerve to call it “rehabilitation “

[@r8chlletters]

Yeah so…we have got to reform prisons. They need to be free of privatization and as independent and self sufficient as possible. This means growing crops, preserving food, making some kind of product from their crops that can be sold to defer the cost of goods they cannot otherwise purchase. Everyone working together like a co-op. This has been done many centuries before and should return to this model. The prison hires very few people to provide security. All other positions come from those living in the prison. Federal programs provide educational subsidies, libraries and transitional programs to integrate people who have served their time as functional members of society. Look at any prison model in Northern Europe-incarceration is not about punishment. It’s about course correction. Making people more desperate, nickel and dime-ing them into debt only leads to more crime.

[@ffc1a28c7]

We definitely need something much more structured (I'd say this and add some sort of educational reform. If someone wants a PhD in higher topos theory, they should be able to pursue that.)

[@tylerkinley268]

Prison farms have a bad history of exploitation. Look at Angola.

[@InbredCannibalNecropedophile]

For a rich country, the US seems to be abnormally bad at rehabilitating criminals. It's almost as if they don't even believe in the concept of rehabilitation.

[@dragskcinnay3184]

​@@CalicoCooperFanactually, it's pretty normal for rich countries to be in a huge ton of debt. Thing with rich countries, is that others know that they _will_ repay them, so everyone is willing to lend them money, even if they already have 150%*GDP debt. I'm no economist, but I know for a fact that France, the US and Japan all have lretty heavy debt, and yet they are rich countries

[@ZekeZable]

Let's visit victims. You'll need a calculator.

[@himmie1]

Most people in jail don't have a victim

[@ffc1a28c7]

Did you ignore the fact that the entire point of the video was about how these people, no matter what they have done, are trapped inside the criminal justice system? The quotes where people say they have done crimes to pay debt? If you have a system, where you want *any* sort of rehabilitation (whatever bar you set, if it is not zero - literally if *anyone* is redeemable), then you can not support the US prison system.

[@ZekeZable]

@@himmie1 hard to argue with logic like that.

[@Dubjaxfilms]

I'm not from the US, but I was struck by a term the narrator used "striving to rehabilitate". I wonder how much effort the prison services put into rehabilitating offenders over and above removing their freedom for their crimes, do they get education, therapy, what efforts are put in place to prevent these people from reoffending upon their release, what help do they receive after their release ? what steps are taken to help these people reintegrate and become useful members of society ?

[@777GabrielGP_moneyYHVH]

Teaching those Little Angels that actions have serious consequences in the real world is all the rehabilitation they need.

[@Dubjaxfilms]

@@777GabrielGP_moneyYHVH their incarceration teaches them that, don't you think that education and learning new skills to prepare them to be lawful members of society would benefit them and benefit society as a whole by reducing recidivism ?

[@adhishyajnik9771]

Little to nothing is done in most cases. Since the 70s, America’s model of corrections has been primarily punitive rather than rehabilitative. For minority groups, it’s been punitive far longer than that.

[@Serjo777]

@@Dubjaxfilms Having a working train (t = b) doesn't hurt, you should try it.

[@MysteriousSoulreaper]

Gives a whole new meaning to "pay your debt to society."

[@CarLos-by5xl]

We tend to tell our kids when they are grown they can do whatever they want, go to school for whatever, but if I as a parent have to be there financially when you make poor choices, or I'm expected to... then I should be able to tell you what NOT to do, because I'm not going to take a second job or come out of retirement to help pay for your Lawyer or fund your prison phone calls and food. That being said, I do not agree with all these Junk Fees, and making families suffer. However, now that your aware, you should make your kids aware as well.

[@pendlera2959]

Those parents are voluntarily helping. No one requires them to pay. Plenty of people in society would let you off the hook for not helping once your kid went to prison. What does any of this have to do with telling your kids what school to go to?

[@JacobJohnson-lh4gx]

No wonder people prefer "unaliving" themselves instead of going to prison, better that than being alive suffering with absurd taxes and debt designed to keep you locked up for the rest of your life. Imagine of the crime isn't as severe, like stealing a two dollar chocolate caramel bar and you end up locked up paying these absurd debts. The legal system debt is like a loan shark in a sense, and the only victim here is the criminal. It's like modern day slavery with those job rates inside the prison. 😢

[@solidorsharp3091]

Ask the lobbyists !

[@NTVT1999]

I can’t even watch this fully- the sheer anxiety that it was causing, seeing these inescapable fees rack up mercilessly, while the family is being driven into involuntary hardship, is too much to bear.

[@courtneyliu]

Mind blown 🤯. Shouldn’t the social worker in the prison system line up jobs for these folks before release? They have months and years to set this up. No wonder recidivism rate is so high

[@marketads1]

If you’re interested, you can do some research. I know the answer but you should check it out yourself.

[@MattHrela]

Parole officer does that, i know in Illinois they pay for 7 months rent for a apartment

[@Libertaro-i2u]

Trouble is that the permanent punishment system ensures ex-cons are permanently denied economic opportunities

[@tylerkinley268]

​@@MattHrelaWHAT? Wonder when that happened cause my PO never told me about that. I got stuck in a homeless shelter upon release, and then bailed on that so I could find work.

[@KK-qm8bo]

What really sucks is innocent people having to pay every penny they own just to prove their innocence

[@user-rf3lu1fe5m]

Wow, this is insane! How do we teach people to go straight when we set them up for failure? The punishment is jail. The fines are a money-making scam

[@LikEaPhoX81]

42c is crazy, whats terrible is they dont make enough in a full day to even pay for food and bedding.

[@rb.9487]

This is a good piece 👏

[@terywetherlow7970]

Slave labor....

[@comentariopolitico1014]

What labor are they actually doing, pray tell? AFAIK, they want to mope around, living off of taxpayers' dollars. Do you see then slaving around in the sun, fixing potholes? I don't.

[@Libertaro-i2u]

Basically

[@Bones-g9e]

Amazing report

[@Jackj28]

I’ve been there. I know all about that. It sucks. Bottom line, the criminal justice admiralty royalty sea courts are not for justice. It is a for-profit system. Period.

[@Waterhead]

So much for getting rid of Debtors’ Prisons.

[@rachaelgoldman5846]

Piper Kerman's Orange is the New Black narrative talks about these fees. It was slightly shocking.

[@loxleybattle2591]

Thank you for making this op doc

[@paradisepointlandscapedesi4886]

Don’t go to prison💯💯💯💯🙏🏽😎👍🏽

[@Rocanala]

NOT committing felonies is FREE.

[@rebeccaboudreau7589]

Sounds like Victorian England. 🤬

[@duo315]

Where children were went to jail as punishment for their parents' debt? How, exactly?

[@martincamacho2444]

This is an unsustainable system

[@homelessalcoholic2716]

I mean the video makes it sound like any of these people got thrown in prison for stealing a loaf of bread. Stay out of trouble, free-folk don't have to pay the courts

[@jvanek8512]

I know. It's weird how NYT is making these criminals victims.

[@pendlera2959]

None of the people in the video had their crimes mentioned. They could be nonviolent drug users or they could be murderers. But that's not the point. No one should have to pay these ridiculous fees regardless of their sentence. Sentences that deserve fines already have them attached. Prisons shouldn't be able to worsen inmates' sentences like this.

[@knowledgeispower6192]

For profit private prisons should be illegal.

[@marketads1]

The point the op-ed makes has flown by many. No one is excusing criminals because it costs money. The point is: what is the current system achieving? Instead of attacking the process by looking at recidivism, or barriers to re-entry to society, let’s look at it this way. Now the story is bleaker. So, things aren’t working well for this set of Americans on the outside, and it doesn’t improve on the inside, what are we saying? They don’t deserve to live at all?? So put up your political or religious blocks about “getting what they deserve.” No laws say that and no religion says that. Think who are the people who want these humans to suffer so much….

[@tylerkinley268]

Return customers, that's all we've achieved. And an unsafe society cause all we produce is angrier criminals with more connections and knowledge. If I only succeeded 25 to 30 percent of the time, I'd be fired. So if 70+ percent are back within 3-5 years, then the system is failing society. Debt and misery is supposed to make them successful and self sufficient?

[@BillRayDrums]

Wait until they get released and figure out they have to pay to relieve themselves. Bathrooms aren't free anymore. "Customers only".

[@oliviao2238]

The cycle of reoffending raises concerns. It is time for taxpayers to invest in measures to ensure they are not victimized.

[@ImGettingOld911]

The "system" needs reformed. Long overdue. It's regressive.

[@duo315]

no thanks i pay 38% in state and federal income taxes already, not paying any more

[@shaza6880]

Very good reporting.

[@honestlynate7922]

They keep acting like they didn’t put themselves there.

[@Purple_jamjelly]

😂😂😂😂 I know

[@mzprince4139]

If they had resources for a good lawyer, some might not have been behind bars.

[@teen5089]

Again it went over your head. tunnel vision does it every time.

[@Serjo777]

Which they didn't. Did they make the laws or sentence themselves?

[@tylerkinley268]

Technically they didn't. They were sentenced to a period of incarceration; not crippling debt for BS services/fees.

[@Galaxy-o2e]

Having to pay for your punishment is actually insane

[@trevorsabo1824]

Is this supposed to make me sad? STAY OUT OF JAIL. Seems rather simple to me.✌️❤️🇨🇦

[@dragskcinnay3184]

Isn't the point of sending people to prison to _prevent them_ from commiting crimes when they get out? Because this system _encourages_ it...

[@_BonsaiBen]

I now know who the real criminals are

[@karanrana7874]

Maybe Mike and "Mikes of the world" should have thought about what the potential consequences are when commiting a crime

[@tylerkinley268]

The consequence is loss of freedom; nobody was sentenced to massive ongoing debt. Never heard that handed down.

[@tcbobb1613]

I bet nobody knows the actual fees associated with going to jail/prison

[@interestsavvy6813]

The worst part is that this debt falls into their children and grandchildren

[@433mea4]

Maybe don't commit the crime. Ever thought of that?

[@dragskcinnay3184]

Innocents in prison is a thing. Besides, the _whole point_ of punishing people for their crimes is to make society safer by preventing 1) culpritd from commiting crimes again when they get out of prison 2) discouraging others from commiting crimes The US prison system does the _exact opposite:_ people out of prison often have no choice but to commit crime to pay all the fees and bills, so the system litteraly encourages crime. Which of course is the whole point since the prison system is set up in a way where it provides super cheap labor, so the whole thing is motivated by purely economic incentives instead of societal ones