The Punisher DESTROYS The Marvel Universe!

[@Cull_Obsidian]

You know, I’ve been watching Back Issues since the TV Little House days, but I think my favourite issues are the ones where Sal not only explains the arc but also explains what’s going on in comics and the people who worked on it in general. It’s a great way to add context to the books!

[@spoogtastic]

Couldn't agree more! The context episodes are the very best.

[@karimzaid9726]

Agree 100%

[@tomrennie8447]

Yeah it's good to watch them after reading a story because it adds a lot to the experience of the comics. I've always thought the channel deserves more views and recognising because it's so much better than 99% of content on KZbin real genuine personality, informative and well produced

[@rainpunk]

Completly 👍

[@davidreyna7410]

YESYES those episodes are the best!!!!

[@adambuckley2270]

I love how, consistently, over the years, Sal has referred to Ben Reilly as simply 'The Clone'. Cold, man. Cold.

[@slightlyhoopla4215]

Well considering most fans hate Peter David’s run which gave him a personality and prefer stuff that makes him Peter but no life events and less personality. Might as well be his actual name

[@Just_Some_Guy_with_a_Mustache]

No one in my family knew anyone in Mỹ Lai, but everyone eventually learned of it. And all of us in the new generation are all told the story of it. I never thought I would hear about it here of all places, in a story about Punisher taking down the Marvel Universe. Thank you, Sal, for doing the research and presenting it here.

[@Lordmustard]

My Lai ?

[@Just_Some_Guy_with_a_Mustache]

@@Lordmustard Yeah.

[@Lordmustard]

@@Just_Some_Guy_with_a_Mustache my yeah was more like a question pardon me I dont think I’ve heard of that place

[@thread6971]

@@Lordmustardit’s talked about in the episode? If you watched the video 😭

[@TheGreatDevlin]

Tiffany roasting Kingpin for literally no reason 😂

[@TheRealZubes]

I don't know, it's like the Amazing Spider-man #542 dialog with Kingpin just never left my brain!

[@Cpt.LEEBOY]

I remember when I kept asking for this so long ago. Time has sure flown by and heare I am turning 23 in a couple weeks and I spent the past 8 or 9 years watching you guys. It's so crazy that everything I've been through I always had you guys to look forward too. Thank you for all the great memories guys

[@Damon.]

Agreed!

[@JoshWolabaugh]

This comic has big "Thanks, I hate it" energy. Great episode 💯

[@saltinecracker4081]

That’s just half of anything written by Garth Ennis

[@marvelanddcretrospective]

@@saltinecracker4081 that should be the tagline to The Boy's comics. "Thanks I hate it".

[@roxtechs]

What about Marvel Zombies though

[@Ka_Five]

Tiffany's quick "Which one?" was one of the funniest things 🤣💀

[@alexsilva28]

Ben was like "Wish I would've thought of that"

[@sciencefantastic]

This was…insanely dark for what amounts to a s**tpost what-if comic. I think that My Lai bit was Ennis acknowledging the gravity of Frank’s actions as bitter irony as well subverting the silly power fantasy of the book. Frank may be a hard ass soldier, but he’s still a mass murderer and no amount of vengeance can excuse his actions. Is Garth Ennis scolding his audience for thinking the Punisher is cool?

[@JohnClark-tt2bl]

Better than the current day, where every armed wannabe hero thinks Punisher is just the coolest. That alone makes me question their sanity.

[@kingkuriboh4528]

@@JohnClark-tt2bl yeah and policemen who uses The punisher’s symbol. Just no.

[@the_rose_garden01]

@@kingkuriboh4528 One of my favorite modern Punisher moments is when he finds a cop with a Punisher sticker on his car, rips it up, and tells him that if he wants a hero, then he can go to Captain America because Frank knows he's not a role model

[@capsjukebox]

Absolutely! Ennis had made it very clear in interviews during the MAX run that Frank is a sociopath looking for an excuse.

[@creed8712]

@@the_rose_garden01 that’s funny because last I remember people weren’t to hype about Steve after he became a Nazi. Which I guess Frank was for awhile as well so

[@TupocalypseShakur]

This is Punisher's plot armor pushed to it's logical extreme

[@ericstaples7220]

More like what happens when you remove superheroes' plot armor and just fight them with conventional weapons.

[@akiraeatsguitarpicks491]

@@ericstaples7220 that makes no sense though. Some of them have ACTUAL armor

[@ericstaples7220]

@@akiraeatsguitarpicks491 Okay, and how long have normal humans had armor irl?

[@akiraeatsguitarpicks491]

@@ericstaples7220 what does this have to do with anything

[@ericstaples7220]

@@akiraeatsguitarpicks491 The gun is mightier than the armor. Just requires you build a big enough gun.

[@TimedRevolver]

This book gets pretty raw...but to me, Punisher MAX will always be the most crushingly heavy Punisher. Some of the things that happen in that run just leave you numb.

[@Nastyn1nja808]

'Cuda shows up and hell yah!

[@Ashguy733]

Especially the Barracuda stuff.

[@Devypocalypse]

'The Slavers' practically left me speechless for a few minutes after I finished it. Merciless run of comics, one of the very best ever, though not for the faint of heart.

[@TimedRevolver]

@@Devypocalypse That story is the one time he said he wished The Punisher was real.

[@Devypocalypse]

@@TimedRevolver absolutely. I think he conveys that through Frank as well. Can't remember the exact wording, but it's when he's thrown that woman through the windows several stories up and he says to himself he hasn't hated anyone like the slavers for a long, long time.

[@calvinjluther]

The Punisher DESTROYS the Marvel Universe with FACTS and LOGIC.

[@loudtaste1046]

Punisher : Boom another fanboy rekt

[@kingkuriboh4528]

@@loudtaste1046 for real 😂 I hated this comic because I was like “No! That’s how that works” and then punisher would look at me say “oh yeah nerd? Cry me river”

[@loudtaste1046]

@@kingkuriboh4528 that’s how I felt as well 😂

[@ZB3003]

I remember seeing pages of this book as a kid and being traumatised lol. I asked someone my mum was dating who was a Wolverine fan if he could die by being electrocuted and reduced to a skeleton and he laughed and said no.

[@loudtaste1046]

Seriously lazy writing

[@ericstaples7220]

@@loudtaste1046 Nothing is lazy about it at all. Wolverine's healing factor was much weaker in the 90's.

[@SettlingNomads]

I'm not a comic book reader, but I love the lore and well I'm that average comicbook movie fan, but I try to deep dive a little. And your videos are incredible! I love how you guys discuss these stories and add your touch with banter and jokes. Love your stuff. Also, your videos are like story time for me. I put them on and go for a bike ride and it's my fun time :)

[@galvatron3323]

Its gŕeat biking listening alright.

[@kingkuriboh4528]

I listen to them at work 😂

[@SettlingNomads]

@@galvatron3323 I started biking last year and found out this whole new world of audio entertainment in podcasts+videos. It's like, I'm still spending the same time, I was spending before. But now instead of a screen, it's outdoors while getting some fresh air and getting healthy lol

[@SettlingNomads]

@@kingkuriboh4528 Oh yeah, people give lo-fi a lot of credit, but once you find your comfort YT channel, it makes a huge difference while doing any type of work :)

[@galvatron3323]

@@SettlingNomads Good for you get out there!

[@This.ability]

I'm surprised Frank didn't just lure Wolverine out into the deep ocean somewhere. (Toss him over the side, he sinks like a stone and keeps drowning over and over again). Btw, now that Immortal Hulk is done, any plans to pick up where we left off? Take care, guys :)

[@greenygal6641]

Honestly, the Daredevil stuff is what really irritates me about this comic. (Which, I mean, is because I'm a Daredevil fan, but still.) Punisher kills every Marvel hero? Sure, whatever, does what it says on the tin. But Matt Murdock being able to defend him in court and emotionally reach out to him, again and again, as he's unstoppably murdering his way through hundreds of Matt's friends and comrades? Matt in this book is just as much of a cardboard cutout as the rest of the characters, except the book wants us to be touched by it.

[@paulakroy2635]

Matt’s a flaw character who always see the good in people. Matt only defends him the first time ( and Frank’s first kills are just out of anger).

[@catlawyerwilldefendfortrea6038]

This feels like a very early idea for Civil War type story. I can see this bleeding into heroes fighting heroes and lack of accountability causing needless casualties.

[@rudedude7874]

This story also has very early proto ideas for The Boys with the group of people who were wronged by Superheroes

[@PhoenixEnforcer101]

I've always heard about this one in the "X kills the marvel universe" discussions but never bothered to read it. The premise sounded more ridiculous than the others tbh

[@karl_alan]

What the heck did superheroes do to Garth Ennis? Did they hurt his family, rub his face in the mud when he was a kid, kick a puppy?

[@mttylerdurden9]

THEY POISONED HIS WATER SUPPLY, BURNED HIS CROPS AND DELIVERED A PLAUGE INTO HIS HOUSE!!!!!🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@Subject_Keter]

A kid who like Superman probably beat his teeth in seemingly.

[@mttylerdurden9]

@@Subject_Keter Garth Ennis actually likes Superman

[@NoBody-lj5xh]

@@mttylerdurden9 Which, I think, is the fucking weirdest thing about his relationship with Superhero Comics. Ask the man about Batman, he'll rail against him as a "fascist who abuses poor people for fun", but Superman? A guy with unlimited power making choices without consulting humanity at the expense of human lives? Naw, he's a nice dude so he's cool.

[@architeuthis3476]

@Karl Alan Ennis was inspired to become a comics writer by reading Pat Mills' comics. If yoo've never read anything by Mills and don't understand his outlook on superhero comics, I invite yoo to read _Marshall Law._

[@masonbrown3423]

holy shit.... this went in not only just "Thanks, i hate it" but it went heavy! especially when in 31:35 to 31:56, it went heavy! damn. what a heavy (but still have LOLs in it) back issues episode for a book that was requested for a while. good job guys! ;) #ComicPOP

[@kishkishkish4797]

I guess it was a pretty heavy episode

[@masonbrown3423]

@@kishkishkish4797 yeah. but at the same time... it's also a very good episode. a very good punisher episode.

[@rabl3535]

That’s usually the case with most things Garth Ennis writes. A good reason why the tv show for The Boys works is they edit out a lot of the more edgelord, gratuitous nonsense Ennis put into the book.

[@capsjukebox]

Still think the best Punisher story is Born. Gives depth to Frank’s military service and establishes that Frank was broken waaaaay before his family is murdered.

[@grantnewton4230]

It’s not the length of the Back Issues, it’s what you do with it.

[@lazarussolomon3541]

This is what I don't get when they try to say that Punisher wouldn't respect Captin America. Im pretty sure Even though Captin America was an army soldier and frank was a marine, Frank would be randomly quizzed on what Captin America's favorite book as a child, because he was that damn important. I mean they do shit like that for Roy benevitaz, Desmond Doss, Sargent York and many others, all be it for their respective branches

[@EMTeves]

Punisher hates captain América in this book only because Garth Ennis hates the character and he is not shy about it. He thinks of Captain America as an insult to actual soldiers who serve in the war.

[@paulakroy2635]

@@EMTevesyou know that they retconned Punisher liking Captain america far later

[@EMTeves]

@@paulakroy2635 no I didn't. Regardless my Point still stands because Ennis has said it himself he despise Captain America. Castle in PKTMU is basically Diet Butcher.

[@Shootblade]

I think Frank mentions Mỹ Lai to insinuate that Mỹ Lai is a part of Frank's past, he is a bad person who does bad things. His family made him suppress all that, but with them dead P.O.S. Frank is doin what he does because that is who he is.

[@Javierm0n0]

That would also inform why this ends the way it does.

[@AnarchicArachnid]

he still isn't the worse tho, as Cuda shows

[@loganthomas2421]

Fun backissues. Hope you guys do more of Ennis’ Punisher run from Born, to Welcome back Frank, to maybe some of his Max run

[@kiko1935]

I haven't heard about Mỹ Lai since highschool, did not expect to hear about it again here. Appropriate reference that doesn't glorify the violence Frank commits

[@austinharvey7644]

I actually read this as a child, right off the comic rack in my local Wegmans. It blew my mind because I was unaware of the "What-Ifs" and alternate reality junk and honestly thought this is how everything Marvel ended. I remember feeling really conflicted about it for weeks after and thinking about it alot. On one hand, I wanted to just hate the story because all my favorite heroes were killed, but I also couldn't ignore the points that were brought up. Obviously, I had no idea about the Mỹ Lai massacre, but it made me start thinking about how people could be crippled/killed by getting caught in battles between superhumans and how lives could be ruined so easily even by the good guys. I mean, when you think about it, most superheroes tend to use the city they're supposed to be protecting as one giant wrestling ring! I honestly wish this perspective was brought up more in superhero media today, because this really needs to be properly addressed. So, it is very frustrating that Disney just wants everyone to think that no one is ever hurt when Iron Man and Hulk are ripping the city apart and smashing through buildings.

[@SnekChrmr]

I would love to see you guys cover Ennis’ Punisher Max run, it’s probably my favorite punisher run alongside Jason Aaron’s

[@thread6971]

I guess they forgot Thor was a Marvel character? Or maybe Ennis just couldn't figure out a way to kill him?

[@misterclark2028]

Ever since I discovered your channel I've been waiting for this, thank you so much for doing the book I always wanted you to do

[@nikhilkapoor428]

The thumbnail looks like a POV of you battling Sal in YuGiOh and he just activated your trap card.

[@AkiDave]

Great episode and the ending is the most Garth Ennis thing I’ve ever heard in my whole life

[@spoogtastic]

I love that Tiffany said only get upset if the writer does a shit job at heroes fighting then just a bit later Ennis has Frank just shoot Banner and that works....I absolutely love how that played out.

[@EnoughMold]

This was a fantastic episode, it was a heavy topic but i love that i learn from this channel just as much as i get laughs from it.

[@catlawyerwilldefendfortrea6038]

Just watched this for the second time and this already one of my all time favorites. Can I just say how hilarious Tiffany is? Like I'm wheezing with laughter and then she says something really poignant and I'm 'oh' ....

[@comixproviderftw_02]

Just imagine them doing a What If episode on this and getting Jon Bernthal to voice it.

[@jscotthatcher380]

you had me at "The".

[@bacsilva]

Can we make Ennis a permanent resident of the Wrong Box?

[@armed.armadillo2638]

This was a great listen. I love when you guys don't gloss over things and go in-depth to the history.

[@valiantshadow89]

Garth’s disdain for superheroes just… depresses me.

[@WhiteRaven696]

I didn’t know there was an original one from the 90’s. I only knew about the Cannibal Universe where Punisher himself was the one who infected everybody LOL

[@morgue3824]

Have you guys thought of covering Spider-Girl on back issues? I think it would be amazing!

[@xvelvet3247]

Spider-Man has such a strong tendency to die first in these stories, holy hell,

[@misterclark2028]

Hey man most of us powerscalers aren't that crazy about stats and stuff, we're just tying to have fun lol

[@TheRealZubes]

Hey, as long as it for the sake of fun!

[@kbowie123]

Oh boy, let's see how Frank messes it up this time...

[@loudtaste1046]

I’ve been waiting for this one thank you for covering it

[@willmartinez1606]

ive been so busy with recovery and getting my life right. but i always have time for the couch. NJ representing

[@TheRealZubes]

Hey! I hope things are getting better!

[@Ayrton_Chitwood]

I hope you cover Punisher Max one day, you guys would explain it so perfectly.

[@Werferharfer]

so this is basically where "The Boys" came from, the Punisher is the Butcher

[@pay7232]

This is the highlight in the Garth Ennis Punisher omnibus. So glad to hear Sal and the gang rant about it😂

[@dakenscholz3585]

Ben asks the realest question in the last second of the episode! 😂

[@ThorneIdentity]

Spider-Man vs Firelord - Nonsense Spider-Man vs Juggernaut - GOLD, baby.

[@shadowman64100]

Great episode.

[@Thrui]

Lmao "we had a team-up. You were great" was a great line. I gotta find that comic

[@srmadden1979]

I don't quite agree with Sals interpretation of Ennis invoking the Mỹ Lai massacre. It sounds more like a dismissal of Captain Americas appeal to morality based on military service. i.e. why would the punishers previous military service make Cap expect better morality or honor from Castle when the military does things like the Mỹ Lai massacre. Ennis might be saying Castle is in the wrong too but he's only a fictional character while the US military actually did the bad things irl and are the actual target of Ennis' distain. All my opinion of course, I can't read Ennis' mind.

[@gregcourtney751]

Sal's thing on frank just shooting microchip occured in Ellis's punisher max. There microchip joined in the government's effort to get frank to help in the war on terror but it failed and frank shot him.

[@thepokekid01]

27:00 I mean... couldn't he at least had Wolverine covered in Cement (until he was a block) and then dropped the body in the ocean? It would have been 3 more panels max...

[@Grievousish]

I'm early in to the episode so idk if this gets touched upon but the start of this book really feels like the premise of The Boys. I can see Garth maybe double dipped a bit

[@sombrashadow0013]

Wow! That I think is the third time a comic book or comic related media taught me about history. The first was the Watchmen show with Tulsa, then Static with the Philadelphia apartment bombings and now the My Lai massacre. I can't believe we never learned about any of this in school

[@FrankGallowsLegacy]

Cykes getting capped point blank is something I always remember from this.Ah I love this book.

[@codystork3008]

It will never happen but Unbeatable X-men is a killer title for an Iska Squirrel girl team up book

[@Depthcharge2030]

I’ve always wanted to see a Punisher Garth Ennis book on the couch

[@pillsburydoughbane2618]

Great Back Issues! Thanks guys

[@lowshawn6269]

i feel bad for matt

[@jalionelle9303]

I think, regarding the question of “How Did This Happen?”, it’s good to remember the comic landscape in 1995. While Punisher wasn’t as peak as a few years prior / would be when Ennis went Max, he was still -everywhere- and “cool anti-heroes” were a thing (we had -just- finished Dennis O’Neil’s takedown of the concept in the Knight-arcs). Garth going “Let’s have the Punisher fight everyone” was likely not a hard idea to push because someone thought “More Punisher? Sure!” The fact that Garth used that as a platform to show the absurdity of how much Frank was interacting with spandex in the mainstream Marvel titles as well as slipping in bits like the Mai Lai Day was actually a pretty good subversion by Ennis. Certainly better than some of his more slapstick ones (and, just because I’m a fanboy of Garth, I will say I think you shortchange his “q-factour” being reliant on “Preacher” as Garth had really grabbed attention in “Hellblazer” well prior, as you all remember from the wonderful discussion of “Dangerous Habits”). Thanks for always being an enjoyable listen!

[@captaincomics3626]

I enjoyed this video and honestly I like your take on ennis and on the punisher 😊❤that's my note please make more

[@yabbadabbindude]

What an awesome episode. I even learned something i should have known about sooner

[@TevyaSmolka]

Punisher kills the marvel universe just seems like a very cynical story by Garth ennis which isn’t a shock to me.

[@morganrobinson8042]

I'd agree, in the "This would probably sell" way. The entire idea reeks of edge and marketing.

[@TevyaSmolka]

@@morganrobinson8042 indeed it does reek of edgy marketing which isn't a shock to me since this was during 90's which was where everything was dark and edgy in the comic book industry.

[@rabl3535]

@@TevyaSmolka …everything Ennis writes is edgelord nonsense, regardless of when it was written

[@TevyaSmolka]

@@rabl3535 that's true and you're right about that especially his work on the boys which is extremely edgelord.

[@paulakroy2635]

@@rabl3535dumb take

[@juliagoodwin9510]

So a guy with no superpowers can kill off _every single super hero and supervillain_ in the world? I call hax!

[@diegoyerse593]

Simply Fantastic. Another Banger, I hope yall are doing well. I wonder if Ben took the issue home to read.

[@the_rose_garden01]

I absolutely despise this comic, it's so stupid and Garth Ennis should stop writing superhero comics because he is very vocal about hating them. That being said, fun video and I love it when you guys do something. Great video as always

[@quackmaster1014]

there's a team-up from the early 00 late 90s with punisher and captain marvel (genis vell), that really rings true to that "how many punisher have you made" where punisher kills a crime lord, and his son sees the murder, then vell shares his "cosmic awareness" showing castle that because of this the kid grows up to be a mass murderer.... then castle shoots the kid.

[@vaggelisbaousis1756]

Never read this story for obvious reasons. Excellent episode as always. Just hoping all the cut content Sal alluded to on twitter makes it in a tangent.

[@Iwoply]

sal, as someone who missed a lot of school, I am very grateful for the history additions that are added to back issues when references to past events are made. While in this case it's very dark to hear about, I find even the dark historic topics like my lai a very important addition to the series. that being said, thank you for the video, what a rollercoster of a book and the rooftop matt ending hits hard.

[@bigfest6498]

What would've been dope is if when Frank kills Doom, the Doom he's dealing with is a bot, then from another room you hear the real doom scream out in pain. NOOOOOAUGHHHHH?!!!?

[@fcm3d]

Damn now I wanna see that squirrel girl fight.

[@juliovictormanuelschaeffer8370]

This comic is basically: all of you, vs me.

[@MsDaydream3r]

That ending feels like Ennis wanted to have his cake and eat it too. 🤨

[@ChristopherZubin]

My Lai is a pretty infamous event. People learn about it in history class ( at least I did) but just like the Red Summer, what you learn in history class, sometimes stays there.

[@SkylightCiel]

I actually remember learning about Mỹ Lai from some reddit post years ago and let me tell you when Sal read that line in the book my jaw has never dropped faster.

[@michaellabonte6390]

I do really respect the way you guys deal with heavy topics. I know of a few younger viewers that watch this (not tooo too young) and although it's not a kid show I think you handle those topics pretty well and the education is actually important imo. Hell I'm 21 and I never heard of My Lai, I'm glad you brought it up because things like that shouldnt be ignored and you did it in a very respectful and classy way. Cheers! Excited for more content

[@GTMQ8]

I had a copy of this book when it first came out in 1995. I was absolutely in love with the story as I also was with What If? Stories that I also collected and read back then. I did unfortunately sell that original copy some years ago. I wish I still had it.

[@ItsOver9000Productions]

Why is Marvel so obsessed with destroying their own universe?

[@multifan1644]

@Comicpop you were right Sal, someone would tell you where this book is collected, I happen to be a library clerk and we do have the book it is in which is Marvel Knights Punisher: The Complete Collection Volume 1.

[@juelgrace]

I always thought the "who would win" argument was if they were in real life

[@MrBromansa]

Punisher MAX and Born are majestic pieces of art, I would love if you guys would do it.

[@AnarchicArachnid]

I'm wondering what the couch's reaction to punisher max would be especially Barracuda, because he's my favorite thing about punisher max. Because he shows how much further Frank truly is from the "bottom" of being a war vet wino has used his prowess to kill people and actually makes Frank confront his humanity and realize "maybe I'm not as bad as I thought"

[@paulakroy2635]

He’s so racist but I’m 90% sure he’s intended to be

[@chrisdaily2077]

Remember when Punisher was avenging his dead family. Good times.

[@catlawyerwilldefendfortrea6038]

I'm surprised Ben didn't call Microchip Microwave lol

[@spencerainsworth269]

Quality show keep chugging on gang.

[@juliovictormanuelschaeffer8370]

This is a certified Garth Ennis classic!

[@kd7100]

Give Ben a cigar, he’d be an excellent, new-generation, J. Jonah Jameson… we need to hear him tell us about what a menace Spider-Man is!

[@georgebaynard4096]

For those curious this is collected in Punisher Vs the marvel universe the sequel/spinoff of Wolverine vs the marvel universe

[@juliovictormanuelschaeffer8370]

Isca and Squirrel Girl vs the Marvel Universe. I want that.

[@krustian9272]

my dad has this book (spanish edition) and was one of the first comics that ive read

[@woodcojb]

Sal's getting too meta, I was just thinking about how it was weird that the guy was named after the German commander in Italy during WW2 - when he calls out that exact thing

[@npz1978]

This was one of the strangest books I had in my collection (because of its value). I sold it recently, along w a bunch of books. I’m not sure how much that book got me but I enjoyed having it.

[@KiramidHead]

I have it collected in the Marvel Knights Punisher Ennis omnibus.

[@Hapokas112]

Nice episode.👍🏻

[@25kidd]

This another great episode of back issues I expected this comic to be a back issues episode.

[@Sicod79]

Electromagnetism vs Wolverine? Madness.