Tracing the Success of Greg Land

[@Tronomics2000]

I remember seeing a post awhile ago where Greg Land used that meme image of an old guy clutching his chest and used it for Iron Man, and people recognized what it was almost instantly.

[@theghostinthemirror8158]

Lmao! The one with the face imprint on the mask? God, he’s not even good at tracing.

[@bluevortexpng1211]

that was actually salvador larroca, another bad artist at marvel notorious for tracing

[@viderevero1338]

@@bluevortexpng1211 I always thought it was Greg Land. That art was literally the worst case of Tracing I've ever seen...

[@Eshyyyyy]

Do you have a link to that? It sounds hilarious

[@viderevero1338]

@@Eshyyyyy Search Iron man old man tracing. That should do it

[@MLMenjoyer]

This guy got caught watching porn one time by his wife... “Wtf are you doing” “Uhh.. working?” and he just had to commit

[@ErickFerraz2]

Gold! hahahaha

[@ryanotero8677]

I would honestly believe that, Lol

[@nameredacted1448]

*Cummit

Damn I had a dream last night I got back with an ex that flipped if she found even an ancient pic of adult art. I now do it on the regular for my KZbin channel and blog and I was like we need to talk. That talk wouldn’t have gone well lol

[@unsynchronized1]

You've solved it, hahaha.

[@DeaconPain]

That is not referencing, that is tracing. He is tracing his reference work rather than simply referencing his reference work like artists who give a damn do. References are absolutely essential to creating quality work no matter what you draw.

[@rasa5970]

bingo. You can use reference and its really important to learn or create good quality work. however this looks or tracing or stealing ideas.

[@katokianimation]

No, using reference IS BAD. Reference: singular. But using references on the other hand is what makes your drawing looks pro. The world is so big so complex you are very limitied about how many things you can draw out of your ass. And it is obvious, we see real life images all the time we can see the difference. If you use one reference it is also obvious, and there is no design part. If you use 3 or 4 and mix it up, it will be some new thing.

[@gasmask3647]

@@katokianimation ....what?

[@katokianimation]

@@gasmask3647 if you use one photo reference it is obvious and people will find out the source. But if you use four pictures as reference and if you are very creative even they can't find out. Like take pose from one girl, take shadow reference from another etc. but not draw exactly the same picture. You have to adjust a lot of thing to make them work together and you can always mix up the features a bit. If you use no photo reference, you have to guess how thing would look like in real life, and people will see that. They can feel if something is based on how real things work or not.

[@gasmask3647]

@@katokianimation yeah but artists are mad at this dude for straight up ripping their shit. Its not that bad to use reference but when you just take reference and stright up copy it it's not good

[@elvingearmasterirma7241]

I still never got the porn "references" HE DOESN'T REFERENCE. HE TRACES

[@njnjhjh8918]

Couldn't keep her hairstyle consistent between panels. It doesn't matter if you think this is okay behavior. He's just bad at it.

[@thesaltmerchant4564]

Bad art in execution and scource

[@grantbaugh2773]

Right? If you're so reliant on tracing that you can't even change the hairstyle, there's a massive problem here.

[@seasons1745]

@@grantbaugh2773 nah not even changing the hair style he’s so out of it I don’t think he even realized the next piece he traced had different hair

[@misterdaleboomshears8619]

The issue here isn't using reference images. That's something literally every artist worth their salt does. Tracing is an entirely different monster and something only someone without enough anatomy studies under their belt falls back on. Spot on with the stiffness, inappropriate expressions, and inconsistencies on anatomy. That's guaranteed with tracing. But if an artist can utilize and blend multiple reference images, bend the form enough to eliminate the stiffness without making it look disfigured, and then alter it a bit with both their own imagination and experience, then there's nothing wrong with using reference images, whether they own the rights to the image or not. Referencing is not the same as tracing. Land seriously needs to take time off to study anatomy.

[@youtubeseagull]

i traced a lot in practice but then with enough practice it's better to reference or not even need references, after all you're trying to get out your own ideas.... tracing on a professional level is just lazy like... the guy doesn't draw that much is what i'm thinking. -not so much a reply but i wanted to share. i used to draw a lot. Tracing is a way of learning but... not a finished product. Not something for display

[@christophergrenfell4537]

@@youtubeseagull I would argue tracing isn't really all that helpful when learning how to draw either. It's a way of producing a decent looking image if you're not very good at drawing, but it doesn't really teach you anything about drawing, because it's not drawing. Tracing images has a place in art and design, but it's not drawing, and is almost always inappropriate when illustrating comics.

[@H-Visage]

@Burgers NShakes Thank you for this comment! I was about to scream when he ruled out using reference and didn't call what he did tracing instead.

[@heelturnsface]

I bet your candy ass can’t draw in real life

[@klausd.6285]

Yeah, I stopped watching once he started bashing him for using references and then acting like no other artist does this. Now, Land does completely draw what the reference is to the t and for what he does as a living is not okay. If he was a realistic artist doing portraits of people, which they use a photo as their reference cause they don't trace over it, that is a different story. This video really just shows you ignorant he is when it comes to artist and professional artist because most of us use references. Most of us aren't as lucky as Kim Jung Gi and have this insane photographic memory. We use references for inspiration and take what we like from multiple references to create something. Hell, the people at Riot use over 100 different references to create one character. It's really sad so many people have this false idea that real artist don't use references and if you do you can't use other peoples pictures as a reference and if you do that you better link and share that you did! bullshit mindset so many people have. I don't have to link shit if I didn't directly draw what I saw. Then again, I think most people don't know what a reference means and think it's drawing what you see which is not referencing.

[@ShadeMeadows]

References are ESSENTIAL. but this guys Straight up COPIES.

[@NaSamymDnie16400]

Greg Bland

[@themossycobble1903]

Well yes but actually no.

[@njalsand133]

Practically every artist in history use reference, or depict reality, it's the whole point of portraits and still art.

[@themossycobble1903]

@@njalsand133 well yes but actually no.

[@njalsand133]

@@themossycobble1903 unless you refer to a lot of modernism and abstract art. You'd think the artist would at least keep faces consistent

[@JeghedderThomas]

Someone once said: "If you can draw, tracing won't hurt, if you can't draw, tracing won't help".

[@illtubethat]

actually, most artist early on, in order to learn at a faster pace, will trace reference until they learn what ever they were having trouble with. Tracing does help when learning, but im not advocating tracing for pay, just for learning.

[@infinityentity]

@@illtubethat Sure you can use tracing to learn but I think their point was that tracing isn't a effective shortcut to better art if you don't already know what you're doing. Good artists can trace their references for hard poses etc without it being obvious because they're really just using it as a guide, a bad (or lazy) artist tracing something is usually super obvious.

[@robokill387]

@@illtubethat Not sure about that, tracing is not really a good way to learn in most cases because you aren't really learning how to construct properly, or how e.g anatomy or objects or architecture fits together, you aren't really observing/ thinking about what you're doing conceptually.

[@itsmario2024]

​@@robokill387it's actually is a good way. You're able to learn features of the face, body, and other stuff. Learn how to control your hand, so it's not all stiff.

[@bowmanruto]

it *completely* depends on *what* you are trying to learn and how you are using tracing, if you use tracing like you're a copy machine with a mouse... then no you're not gonna learn a damn thing. but if you instead use tracing to break the reference down into its component shapes in 3d, tracing can teach you a lot, including not often mentioned aspects like line confidence.

[@seigrispark6158]

As someone who draws and is constantly struggling between the line of using references and exercising my mind's ability to comprehend a human body, this topic perfectly illustrates what may potentially happen if you rely on references too heavily verses not using any. You need to have a good balance in between as a 50/50.

[@Mangajedi]

Well said. :)

[@tsdobbi]

He isn't using a reference to get a pose right or something though. He is literally copying every detail. Drawing from reference is very valuable in getting better at drawing from imagination.

[@Lonniebelle1979]

It's pretty disheartening for budding artists to see someone stealing and still being successful doing so.

[@craigcotter7476]

Led Zeppelin.

[@tsdobbi]

@@craigcotter7476 Fuck a lot of rock musicians particularly the 60s and 70s just straight up ripped off largely unknown black blues and rock artists. The Stones were particularly guilty of this.

[@adu1991]

You've never heard of rappers sampling older music? Similar concept.

[@yasmingoldberg596]

@@adu1991 not really. The sample usage in rap is MUCH more transformative.

[@joehill4094]

​@@craigcotter7476 Led Zeppelin is famous for their actual songs, if you ask people what their favorite song from Led Zeppelin 1 was it probably is Good Times Bad Times, not You Shook Me. Im glad I found your comment though because now you have me relistening to music I havent heard in years lol.

[@iamnoone5614]

I remember reading a X-Men comic years ago after and wondering to myself "why the hell does everyone have a goofy looking stupid smile on them". I kept noticing that more and more I became obsessed with it. I then realized it was Greg Lands art.

[@theepoopydoodoo]

Greg Land probably mains Tracer in Overwatch

[@MAM-nm6lq]

What?

[@chillwaffle2033]

And people picked on Banky in Chasing Amy for being a Tracer...

[@Bawgle]

*rimshot*

[@Bustermachine]

@@MAM-nm6lq Overwatch reference. Tracer is a mascot character for the series who is being referenced the name pun. Widowmaker is a reference to game mechanics. Widowmakers ultimate, which takes time to charge up, is just a more powerful version of one of Hanzo's default abilities that he can spam much more often. So on a team with a Hanzo, Widowmaker is redundant as her greatest strength is something another character does more organically.

[@TeenageMutantNeckTurtle]

Strange Case've Dr Strange & Mistah Hulk

[@LikaLaruku]

Amature: "Maybe I'll be Tracer." Greg Land: "I'm already Tracer."

[@samuelparker9882]

Lieutenant BaconWaffles Wow! plagerism at its best. How does this guy even keep his job????????!!!!!!!

[@dopdrop8998]

Amateur: “Maybe I’ll be Tracer” Greg Land: “I’m already Tracer”

[@jennyholiday88]

@@dopdrop8998 "fun at parties"

[@breakfaith3031]

@@jennyholiday88 this is the KZbin comment section, literally not a single person here has ever been fun at a party.

[@Pat315]

@@breakfaith3031 I have!

[@PopCross]

Sorry to hear about your mental health issues and hard times. This video was super interesting to watch and you have a great balance of being to the point but also having some natural flow to the way you deliver the information. Doesn't sound robotic or anything, very natural. Hope you feel better and keep making vids! Thanks for the great content!

[@legorocketraccoon8297]

Now he's doing a comic for Fortnite and the tracing is more blatant than ever. He's straight up traced promo images from like 2017.

[@mirandacooper3886]

Land’s at it again, this time with Aliens. He straight up copied artist Tristan Jones’ in his cover art for the new Alien comics under Marvel. Photoshop’s snap function even locked Jones’ work over Lands’ when he put them together, they were identical. It’s such a shame and it’s so shitty to see him get away with it.

[@emperorpalpatine6239]

Why are people like Greg Land so succesful, while actually talented artists like Dan Panosian are so underrated? What's wrong with this world?

[@WoobooRidesAgain]

@@emperorpalpatine6239 Because Land is a company man: He's cheap, quick, keeps his head down, has no discernable ambition and is pretty quiet outside of the industry, meaning that he never courts controversy ala Frank Miller or Ethan Sciver. He's useful, bland and inoffensive in the wider sense, like a carpenter's hammer. There was a petition to fire the guy launched by Marvel fans in response to his obvious swiping and demonstrable lack of talent, and Joe Quesada's response was to effectively say it was "unfair", despite the obvious evidence of Land's theft. This tells me that we're never going to see him fired unless he royally fucks up in such a way that Marvel's heads are forced to fire him.

[@GeeVanderplas]

And then after that disaster the new Marvel Aliens comics are just traced images of Neca toys. It's so awful. The Aliens comics were hit or miss under Dark Horse, but at least you could see the artists were trying. This is just lazy, minimal effort to turn a profit.

[@historyking9984]

@@emperorpalpatine6239 sadly because he’s fast and cheap. Companies want comics out fast and he gets work done fast

[@QTPiNintendofan]

On top of his art-swiping, Greg Land draws women in such a way that you can tell he's someone who loves boobs and hates hips. So many of his drawn women have huge, pillowy boobs and super narrow hips with oddly thin thighs. I think there's an infamous image of She-Hulk floating around that demonstrates this. Sure, everyone has their preferences, but for it to be so obvious and a limit on drawing distinctive characters is irritating.

[@unigenius]

That immediately made me think of this one shot of Dazzler her drew where her boobs were twice as wide as her hips. It bothers me so much!

Yep. He explicitly said (wrote, whatever) that in a tutorial he did for Wizard Magazine explaining his process. Which was: * trace the figure of a model from a swimsuit edition of Sport Illustrated * make her chest a bit larger * make her hips tinier

[@nightmarefanatic1819]

Glad I'm not the only one who noticed his funnel shaped women.

[@nightmarefanatic1819]

@ I have a book that's a bunch of action photos for comic book reference, and each section has a professional do a demonstration on how they work using one of the photos. Of COURSE Greg Land was in there and of COURSE it was just him blatantly tracing a woman while making the legs skinnier.

[@QTPiNintendofan]

@Trsum_ I know, right? And even if I was a boobs guy, I can't imagine letting that futz with the proportions of literally every woman I drew as a professional comic artist.

[@poisondamage2182]

shiiiit, that ahegao face on all the women... i'm baffled

[@sootmancer9851]

really ruins what might have been going on for the character in that panel and just looks horrid

[@sampokemppainen3041]

Not as bad as using japanese porn cartoon terms.

[@Pleasestoptalkingthanks]

@@sampokemppainen3041 It's more accurate to use than the Western equivalent, "O Face", since a lot of them aren't straight up O's.

[@andrewclayterman6230]

@@Pleasestoptalkingthanks "O" face means orgasm face. not necessarily the letter o.

[@seigeengine]

9:15 Dear God that image on the right.

[@That_Guy-]

Lmao

[@o.g.millennials]

@@That_Guy- He can explain...

[@childnamedfinger]

Nice 69 likes

[@JustapErson]

I literally can't even tell what's supposed to be happening. It's way too obvious what he traced and it's very distracting.

[@romaindanze1512]

"The uncanny X-Men"? With this Greg Land guy, more like "The uncanny valley X-men"

[@FridayX6]

XXX-Men

[@stuarts9521]

A lot of people critique Alex Ross for using photo references, but he sets up all the poses himself. As you said, it’s totally different to Land.

[@vermis8344]

Stuart S Alex Ross is enough of an artist (at the _very_ least) to know not to trace the reference exactly, and what to tweak for the desired effect. That legendary 'artist's license'.

[@frankegordon326]

Alex Ross is god

[@vermis8344]

Bruce Wayne if you're going to spaz out and fling nonsense and curses at vague, hypothetical people who warrant mild dislike at most, at least have the courage of your convictions to type 'fuck' out in full.

[@haileyshannon7548]

Norman Rockwell did that, too! most of the models in the photos he used in the paintings were his friends

[@stuarts9521]

Bruce Wayne I’m not sure exactly who, but I’ve listened to his art manager and Ross himself have addressed this topic on a few occasions.

[@Maioly]

He's not using reference, he is tracing.

[@kencoleman5007]

Greg Land's "studio" should be nicknamed "the Cheesecake Factory".

[@GabyGeorge1996]

Ken Coleman ...why?

[@adammorris9008]

Pretty sure Frank Cho has that covered.

[@SageStupidity]

a girl I went to school with became a model, Greg land used her face to make black widow. she didn't get paid or credited at all.

[@Nikp117]

Time to sue

[@factotums]

Trying not to be negative but I'm very much in favor of using reference images to draw figures and faces. Every artist has done it from the near the beginning of time. For example, there is a famous Cezanne painting called The Card Players which shows, two card players. I can basically guarantee that those two normal looking card players didn't receive reimbursement, and their ancestors aren't suing the Cezanne Estate. You silly Americans and your lawsuits and desire to conjure money out of solid rock.

[@DelRae]

factotum do you NOT understand the difference between TRACING and REFERENCING? This commenter should NOT be able to tell that the comic characters face was a girl from their school. This isn’t an American thing, this is about telling people this abuse of open media is okay. It’s not flattering to have your stuff taken directly regardless if it’s art, photos, or poses. He should be making his own shit, or at least an obvious fucking twist on ideas not just blatantly using them.

[@SageStupidity]

@@factotums exactly what @chatherine rose said. I'm an artist, I understand references (hell, the school both this girl and I went to was an art school). but this isn't referencing. its straight us stealing

[@factotums]

@@DelRae Don't capitalize words for emphasis. You appear as your president. And in the spirit of card players I raise that no evidence exists for these claims and that referencing certainly can produce a recognizable image. Your argument is moot. Return to the mob. A tribunal is waiting.

[@oscarwilde399]

There's a difference between using a reference and a rip-off.

[@jamesdent9057]

A reference is when you use certain images in order to inspire your art. A rip-off is when you steal (directly trace over) art and pass it off as your own

[@DocDevious23]

So I remember having a an old XMen comic featuring Pixie, illustrated by Greg Land, and I distinctly remember wondering why the artwork looked so... I dunno, sultry and suggestive? And it all made me kinda uncomfortable because it just looked awkward and out of place. Now I know why

[@WildBluntHickok]

She went from being drawn as a 15 year old (which she was) to being drawn like a 30 year old in a single issue. Not just any 30 year old either, the same woman he used for Sue Richards in Ultimate Fantastic Four a few months earlier.

[@Lead122]

Man, I trace a single hand and I feel guilty af. I can't imagine tracing an entire artwork, as a professional on top of that.

[@brenttanner9889]

I’ve never liked the modern photorealistic trend in comics. It looks horrible and boring.

[@lukelima]

But Alex Ross tho

[@michaelholloway5646]

@@lukelima I don't toss him into the photo realistic camp. A lot of his stuff is... um. A lot of his stuff is physically impossible. Faces with dimensions that can't genetically happen, he just draws it with lots of detail. Which I'm fine with. Heightened reality is a thing. Alex Ross is kinda... video gamey. Silhouettes are a big thing in video games, artists create things to be noticeably different from each other at a distance. A easily recognizable silhouette is the most important thing a video game character can have physically. Alex Ross reminds me of that.

[@untrustworthybagel]

Michael Holloway that’s not just video games, an iconic silhouette is one of the most important aspects of character design period.

[@elifyarencetin1597]

Brent tanner Why

[@daredrogers3884]

Same here on the photorealistic thing I do have respect for people who can do it but personally I went into art for draw stuff that doesn't or can't exist in our reality (Noodle limbs, anthros, monsters ect.)

[@johnnyawesome5437]

The 'Greg Land method' got me through art college!! Now I work in a hardware store! Wooo!!! go me!!!

[@wk3820]

The problem with Greg Land is that with Marvel's current editorial oversight (meaning almost none), there's no one to make him focus on actual storytelling. He does pages of cool panels which do not effectively tell stories. He was much better as an artist twenty years ago, frankly, but then he probably got paid more back then, too, as comics sales were about 2-3 times higher on average. Maye he's just phoning it in now for the money, and that's why he does the tracing more than ever.

[@robinsonkaspar3395]

He has a whole internet full of reference material and he’s only using one website. Maybe he should put safe search back on. Maybe someone should talk to him about his addiction.

[@ginamaynard2698]

I think that you've confused photo reference with tracing. Photo reference means that you've used a photo to make a facial expression/pose/anatomy/ECT look more realistic and it can be used with your imagination to create original work. What he's likely doing is tracing his "references" without a care to meet a deadline.

[@ginamaynard2698]

@Kenneth Floyd I am an artist though, there is a difference between using reference and tracing. I don't think tracing is absolutely horrible, but I think that it's best to keep at a minimum in order to improve

[@unstoppableExodia]

Yeah Greg Land's art is stale. He's become lazy because he's become overly dependent on tracing. You can see in his art that he's lost the desire to push himself. He's happy to be cynical and uncreative to meet his deadlines with ease. He must've gotten a lot of praise when he started tracing and started to believe his own hype once he Started to make a name for himself in the industry.

[@ginamaynard2698]

@@unstoppableExodia That's honestly really sad. To lose passion for something I'm sure he enjoyed doing at some point just bums me out.

[@unstoppableExodia]

Gina Maynard even worse he's keeping someone who has talent and the desire to do good produce outstanding illustrations out of a job. Ultimately it's people who buy his comics who are keeping him employed in that industry. If people vote with their wallets he'd fold faster than superman on laundry day

[@ginamaynard2698]

@@unstoppableExodia that's true, but I feel like most fans seem to not understand that, just like consumers in most somewhat niche markets.

[@jackodell8497]

What Greg Land should do is just pay someone to make 3d models of the marvel universe in his style (whatever that is), and just make original 3d renderings and draw from that. Problem solved.

[@manchesterunitedno7]

There is other artist that actually doing that. Basically extracting anything from 3D Poser, and call it the day.

[@TheDecatonkeil]

Dude, I'm sorry to hear you bring up mental health. You seem like the nicest guy and here you're doing a great job and something that stands out with its own personality. I hope things start looking up for you in your personal life and economically. Don't give up, man.

[@scarlet8078]

What fascinates me about this is that most artists reach a point where it's faster for us to quickly pencil our own drawings than to stop, search for reference, & then trace. I find it weird that this guy is doing this

[@PabloskyS84]

Wow, this guy (Greg Land) is like the Michael Bay of comics!!

[@nicholasdickens2801]

I love that analogy.

[@lonestarr1843]

More boom! 😄 More “references”!

[@57wookie]

Don't be mean, Michael Bay comes up with original ideas

[@lonestarr1843]

57wookie - He does but we are just saying that the amount of boom he has in his movies is the equivalent to the amount of “reference” this artist uses.

[@57wookie]

@@lonestarr1843 I'd say something like the jj Abrams of comics

[@sysable]

"Never draw anything you can copy, never copy anything you can trace, never trace anything you can cut out and paste up." Wally Wood

[@johnminehan1148]

"When in doubt, paste it up."---Id.

[@perochialjoe]

Greg Land missed out on the most important lessons for reference. 1. Your work should define your reference, not the other way around. 2. Don't. Steal. Artwork.

[@Noah-ry5qj]

Sucks to be a comic book artist and not have a shred of creativity.

[@TheStockwell]

It sucks to be in a field that's all about imagination and creativity - and not having much of either.

[@TheStockwell]

@@voifont I looked up his current net worth: $2.5 million. Suddenly, I feel the urge to buy myself some porn and tracing paper.

[@Noah-ry5qj]

@@TheStockwell That's incredibly sad. Hopefully people become more aware of his practice and stop consuming his work.

[@TheStockwell]

@@Noah-ry5qj Yeah - it's obvious Greg Land has the talent and, what with being a multi-millionaire by now, maybe it's time for him to go from hack back to talented artist.

[@juniorjunior5884]

@@TheStockwell Helps to know people, doesn't matter how many other talented folks are out there when you're already friends with big names in the business.

[@dominomasked]

"Comic books are not movies, they're better, in my opinion." THANK YOU.

[@MarkLipka]

I've always said this, too.

[@SozuSozin]

Ummm no lol. Comics can do things movies can’t and movies can do things that comics can’t. Neither are better friend

[@nickmeistersa123456]

I don't think Greg Land's women look "beautiful" at all. His reference materials (highly photoshopped images of super models, porn, etc.) already look stiff and unrealistic. When you trace it over into a drawing, it just looks worse.

[@GenreChowderStudios]

nickmeistersa Yeah, and some of them with their eyes and mouths wide open don’t even look remotely like they’re supposed to be beautiful. That one with the blonde being carried by the Human Torch doesn’t even look like she’s having an orgasm. She looks like she’s gonna show up at my house in the middle of the night and kill me with a rusty axe.

[@TeenageMutantNeckTurtle]

Comic Tropes a TRIP!!

[@miltonhenderson2588]

nickmeistersa Nothing is wrong with PORN 😁

[@mikhidrayton5363]

I like greg lands women faces. What can I avoid when I draw like that?

[@blondbraid7986]

And all of them have ridiculously small hips, I know some women have narrow hips in real life, but every single woman having the pelvis size of a 10 year old boy just looks weird

[@Dreadjaws]

And you know what Joe Quesada said when people complained about Land? He said that Land had to provide for his family. I mean... doesn't everyone? Why not give the job to someone who has to provide for his family and it's _not_ a hack? I mean, I have to provide too, Mr. Quesadilla, why don't you give me a job as an artist as well? I can trace very well too.

[@krim7]

Because Land's work sells. :(

[@andressilang7877]

Mr. Quesadilla.....ha ha ha!

[@fernie-fernandez]

Dreadjaws Have you ever tried to apply to Mr. Quesada?

[@qty1315]

I should put that on my resume. "Hire me because I have to provide for my family."

[@BlimaWormtong]

Leave Joe Øuesada Alone

[@JacopoMoruzzi]

6:19 an artist could have a perfect replica of the Mona Lisa in his sketchbook and it would be totally fine, because it's a sketchbook, not published work.

[@SubliminaIMessages]

Using reference is fine, it’s when you straight up copy the reference down to the line is when it’s a problem.

[@alexdawson2322]

Hey Chris, I'm sorry to hear about the problems you're having. You got me through my last 3 weeks at training away from home for my new job. I was so stressed and depressed and your channel really helped me just relax and concentrate on something else, so I'm really grateful to you for that. So keep going! It's really great content that you're coming up with. All the best from the UK!

[@secretrarecollctbles1892]

exactly what I was thinking :) hang in there chris hope things get better for you and love the content, your channel really is different from other channels and I enjoy your take on the industry, thank you :)

[@gohan12991]

Who's that woman in your display picture?

[@alexdawson2322]

Hello Bunzin my pic? The actress Veronica Lake

[@parano8567]

Son, cheating won't get you anywhere in life ... *BOOM !* *GREG LANG*

[@Freefork]

Son, lying and sexual harassment won't get you- *BOOM !* *Donald Trump*

[@joecooper8527]

@@Freefork DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG

[@o.g.millennials]

@@Freefork Trump 2020.

[@minganmorissette]

In my opinion, taking reference from images you don't own is okay: you're not copying, but taking inspiration. However, tracing, as he was doing, is definitely not alright

[@Trid3nt861]

Me: "Greg could you draw a superheroine in a cool pose flying in the air with a few buildings like she is in the air flying or something" Land: "Sure" Me: "Don't trace or swipe art, draw it from your mind" Land: "Uhhhhh ummmmmmmm" *Greg Land has left the chat*

[@RealTimmyT]

I’ve always hated Greg Land’s artwork, but could never articulate why. Thank you so much for making this and helping me to understand it! I absolutely love your channel, keep it up!

[@bjpalm1994]

Lol, Same here!

[@skymarshallmarz5573]

Most artists do use photo reference, I know I do. However, there are ways to make it your own, and its advisable, since its always possible to be sued.

[@skymarshallmarz5573]

Lol, yes I know, but when in art school, my anatomy teacher discouraged us from this, as he felt it was mostly unethical.

[@skymarshallmarz5573]

Good point, as I have my own 'morgue' of past magazines, usually 5 plus yrs old and older, as well as computer clips.

[@atenakehnaton3965]

If you're taking other peoples work without permission and copying it, you're stealing. I meant it's one thing to study and learn from other peoples photos. Study trees, mountains, buildings, etc. but when you copy that stuff directly, you're stealing. Unless you get permission first. Of course legally you can always get around this if you make enough changes, it's still stealing/swiping though.

[@skymarshallmarz5573]

Puts on mask...swipes and steals.

[@Camera728]

Almost all tattoo artist steals, but, people are okay with that right? Did this guy trace or copy someone else's pose? Yes, but, at least he created something over it... which is totally legal.

[@leetaylor15202]

I think Chris is being kind by referring to Land as "using reference" as opposed to "tracing." Spot on analysis. The first time I ever noticed this was an issue of Ultimate FF with the Marvel Zombies where Land had clearly traced Jessica Alba as Sue Storm.

[@markusferris]

I’m sorry to hear you’re so stressed. Hope everything works out for you, man! Having just recently found this channel, my girlfriend and I can’t wait to catch up on all your episodes. Thanks for all your hard work

[@RawbeardX]

the assumption that Land was ever an artist is highly amusing to me

[@quadmproductions6734]

Great vid, Chris. Lot of folks have called out Greg Land for swiping over the years (and some magazines like Wizard and Sketch have glorified his 'use of photo reference'). The big thing to remember (for all you aspiring artists out there) is that using photo reference IS NOT the same thing as tracing, copy/pasting, or blatant swiping. I am an indie comic book artist and I use photo reference. When I just can't get a pose just right. Inspiration for background, architecture, or vehicles. I can appreciate Land's ability to get work completed and turned in on time (so many artists blow deadlines, it's not even funny). I completely understand the use of photo reference. I can tolerate the use of tracing/lightboxing self created images (I suck at drawing cars. More often than not, I have to get car models to take pics so the cars in my pages don't look like complete garbage. lol). What I will NEVER condone is the blatant swiping of other artist hard work and claiming it as your own. That was when I lost respect for Greg Land as an artist. Warren JB At the time of McFarlane's run on Hulk, you have to understand that his work was blowing everyone else out of the water for its hyper-kinetic energy. He was busting panels and creating action and movement that no one else was. There was a reason why everyone was emulating him from 1989-1994. And it's because he was different. Something sorely lacking in today's comics.

[@DeadpoolAli]

Agreed! Todd was breaking the mold. Changed the way spidey look entirely, much more dynamic shots, webbing the big eyes etc. Compare it to most of the work done as same time as his run on hulk (which all.looks dated af now) . He took risks.

[@user-ex6nd4sl1z]

As someone who is learning how to draw people, references are important because our memories often warp how things actually look. BUT you should be able to take a basic pose reference and still make it look like your character. You should just know what the person looks like. References are for outlines so that you can figure out where that leg is supposed to go, you can't just straight up copy a reference or your not really a character artist. But that's just my opinion.

[@THEQueeferSutherland]

I'm an illustrator for a living and I've done a few comics, you don't need to source reference on your own, like it would be impossible to take my own photos of an A-bomb or the streets of Bangladesh or whatever if I need that shit to go into a drawing. Hell, I even trace shit to hit deadlines if I have to...if I need 10 cars in the background, I'm not going to spend all day with vanishing points drawing out the perspective all perfectly, there is literally no time for that, I will trace car images I pull off of google images and alter them enough to fit into the scene and alter them enough so they don't resemble the image I traced at all, it's just reference, it's a starting point, not the end point. If a company doesn't want me doing that, they can pay me more money to spend that much time drawing out the perspective perfectly or they can pay me money to fly to Bangladesh to take my own photos of a busy street. What's okay is using reference, if you don't use reference, your art will look like shit, I guarantee you. I think you need a very distinct art style like Keith Haring if you're just drawing shit from out of your own head without needing reference. What's not okay is just straight up tracing shit as it is or just swiping art from other artists, as Land tends to do. He doesn't do what most artists do, like when I use reference on people, I might use the torso or pose from one image and clothes from another, and legs from another image, eyes from one image, lips from another, etc. I only trace shit when it makes sense, like if I'm drawing a logo on someone's t-shirt. It's a waste of time to sketch that out from scratch, I'll just trace that shit. I just wanted to defend the using reference thing and not using your own images that you took yourself, because that's just ridiculous.

[@victorcabanelas]

Comicbook artist here and, though I don't trace, yeah, reference is essential. One eventually gets better with basic stuff like anatomy or facial expressions, which's what I think pisses most of out the most (except for the swiping, that's just a no-no).

[@CuriousCritter17]

We know we all know already. Did you watch the video?

[@Xilaas]

QueeferSutherland it’s literally your job and you still trace? 🤦🏻‍♀️

[@BOINKHeadshot]

@@Xilaas Tracing saves time and professional artists are often under heavy deadlines. Tracing smaller, unimportant things like logos or obscure background objects is fine. If you want artists to stop tracing, pay them the proper amount so they can take their time to construct it by hand.

[@ExtremeAnalDischarge]

11:58 I laughed at the mayor grabbing her skirt.

[@charliewilson3610]

what i wonder is Why was she grabbing her skirt? Was there an actual reason or was it just because that's the picture he traced?

[@wytyd27]

I love your attention to detail and your ability to catch so many instances of him using so many photo references.

[@AllenFreemanMediaGuru]

Another very well done video. I’m an artist and for a fanzine I used a pose from a page of a movie magazine as reference for an illustration. I go to the comic store and to my surprise there is a new comic with a Dave Stevens cover where he used the exact same reference!

[@nightvisiongoggles]

I think it all has to do with deadlines and earnings. The faster you work, the more money you can make in the same amount of time, so Land, instead of referencing, outright copies references and since the publishers have no issue with it and don't get lawsuits (or have found loopholes to exploit), they really don't care if the artist does it. At this point I can respect Rob Liefeld who at least uses his imagination and knowledge to produce his own work.

[@dockhoward7493]

There is a difference between using reference and using photos as a means to photobash drawings. Using reference (or at least how I was taught to use it) is basically getting images from several angles and scenarios to LOOK AT in order develop your own drawings and designs so they make sense (making sure your perspective, anatomy and form don't look weird). Greg is not using reference, he is TRACING photos to save time and it's kind of shameful somebody can have a successful career relying on it.

[@randompat5772]

I really REALLY love this channel. I’ve been here since 1,000 subscribers and totally see the potential you have. The content you deliver is so interesting and informative. I hope it stays alive.

[@marlabankie]

I'm so glad I found your videos, they are so much fun and you explain things so clearly. I hope you're doing much better financially and mental health-wise now that it's a year later.

[@JaneDoe-vu7fj]

Omg, the beginning is so wholesome, very refreshing to see! Tbh I’m not even really into comics but I’ve been binging your channel and it’s so informative and entertaining! Keep up the good work ☺️

[@christopherjohnson4276]

My Sunday morning is complete! Thanks Chris. You do a great job. Wasn't too familiar with Land but interesting breakdown.

[@TehNotorious01]

Haven

[@MateoAbadia]

The title of the video is genious.

[@brian_sipe]

*Jenius*

[@krusher181]

“Genie-us” is how it’s spelled.

[@achmadardi8412]

Fuck i just realized. Lmao

[@tediousmaximus1067]

Yes, "Tracing the success of Greg Land" is brilliant!

[@ericcoyle3520]

Some naysayers here protest too much me thinks. I didn't take from this that using reference is a problem, but tracing from reference leads to inconsistent and stiff art. Copying directly from other artists without permission is a bit crappy too.

[@mikekloepfer7424]

Hi Chris - Thanks for this episode. It has given me a lot to consider. I appreciate that you are discussing some of the pitfalls that artists can fall prey to. These are important to keep in mind as I work on my own art, and it helps me to appreciate both the upside and downside in other artists' work. Sometimes when I look at work by a particular artist, there may be something that bothers me, but I can't quite put my finger on it. I think you've done a good job helping me understand my reaction to this artist's work - both positive and negative. I enjoy your reviews and look forward to more! Thanks. Mikey

[@GarrettRomain]

LOL "They look like something else"

[@elmori616]

9:41

[@davidgi3]

😂😂😂

[@computerman789]

Greg Land is the villain pinned "The Recycler".

[@retromusicreview]

Thank you for the time (and guts) it took to do this episode. Something always seemed a bit off about his work and you nailed it. Well done.

[@Freefork]

9:29 If Greg Land became a movie director: Actress: What should I feel in this scene? Land: Hahaha. Actress: What's so funny? Land: Oh, that wasn't a joke? Didn't you do research on your role? Actress: Oh I see... So I'm suppose to get off to the dying child in this scene? Land: *EXACTLY* .

[@manchesterunitedno7]

Greg Land is The Michael Bay of comic.

[@Freefork]

@@manchesterunitedno7 Just a different type of... *EXPLOSION.*

[@Carewolf]

@@Freefork No, it is all the same. At least to Michael Bay.

[@cbrock5529]

this... is just sad to me, i’m only 21 and i do use reference art but i free hand draw it on paper and adapt it to my own style or change some things like expressions, dynamic poses, etc to what works best, like i’ll take the top half of one spiderman and the bottom half of another (even from two different artists) combine them (again on paper in my own personal style) and change the shading the eye size everything. sometimes i like fully recreating one of my favorite artists works (i’m currently doing flash vs reverse flash) but i should also note i’m not professional in any way and i only draw for fun and stress relief, and i just hate seeing blatant rip-offs like this.

[@cbrock5529]

HEAVY SYSTEMS, Inc. yeah i got that, as an artist when i read a comic i hate inconsistencies like this, all i’m saying is if i did the invisible woman with the hair inconsistency it would have been easy for me to one hairstyle, infact my o.c.d tendencies would probably make me do just one hairstyle. i know this was probably more of a response than you wanted but i’m just really into comic book artwork and this kind of stuff, especially the later stuff, that stuff is just terrible.

[@toltecnightmare]

neal adams admittedly traced frequently, especially in the beginning (photos, not other art), in order to train himself on realism. very few pros draw exclusively from memory, especially modern marvel, because they don't pay for shit. Neal is old, but still a titan in the art industry. You will need reference most of the time. People who are incapable of producing art, especially on a deadline, have no clue.

[@truefanforum3273]

C Brock You just pointed out EXACTLY what reference materials are for. To help an artist, especially a young, less experienced artist, develop their styles. And as you said, you try to adapt the reference material into your own style, which is fine. I too like to draw for fun, especially characters I am writing about. I hope you continue to develop your style.

[@truefanforum3273]

toltecnightmare Most artists, especially young artists will trace or copy another photo, painting, or whatever as they learn to develop their own style. The problem is when the style becomes cut and paste. And you are right, everyone needs references now and then.

[@Ceares]

Getting more popular while deploying this technique certainly doesn't motivate him to stop. It's a shame because it seems like a maybe a lack of confidence in his own creative skills and a need to make deadlines quickly lead to the overuse in the beginning and being rewarded for it, just reinforces it. I actually did not plan to watch this entire video but you made it very interesting, and also I was fascinated by the panels in the background.

[@darksidehero]

He should learn how to use Daz3D

[@TheToyBeast]

I just discovered your channel and have been bingeing the shows this past week! Great stuff. Subscribed.

[@Romir616]

OMG I was totally disillusioned when I read about the tracing and stuff. Sad/funny thing is, I'm work on storyboards for ads, I used to draw from my head but now, I find myself tracing a lot. Been doing it for a while now and I do feel it degraded my skill.

[@ANIME121ADDICT]

Hey I just gotta say this newish direction for the channel of retrospectives for artists and techniques and all that good stuff is really really good, You're definitely becoming one of my favorite channels. As for Greg Land I gotta say i am/ was a fan, as far as his work has de-evolved i really think his work on sojourn is just beautiful, yeah some of his tropes are shown but damn that book looks good in my opinion.

[@tysean0816]

That Leifeld pic is funny as hell

[@shazzbutter]

Greg Land works to collect a paycheck, not advance the craft. If he traces to turn in work on time, I can see why his employers aren't complaining.

[@champagneredneck]

We're all here for you buddy. Love your show and keep up the good work.

[@tomryan3768]

Porn face!!! someone managed to redo all the word bubbles in the ultimate power fight...it's pretty funny.

[@2percentright]

I know it's been 10 months, but do you have a link for that? Finished ultimate power today and it was painful. Could use a laugh

[@likeanuuk6612]

i just dont get it. i feel like alot of these problems could be fixed with simple edits. like at 9:26 just change her eyebrows and mouth a bit and it would work. hes careless

[@RoboticDragon]

Man I have had a blast with your show I think its great, I am learning a lot from you.

[@solidkingcobra]

I think this is one of the first or at least early view of this channel. You really did a great job Chris. this is my second time watching this and with being exposed to your other videos I can now see your own tropes. 1) Oh hai trope at the beginning 2) great effort 3) deep research 4) puns 5) jokes! 6) insightful analysis 7) fan art 8) gatchapons! 9) more insights 10) keep reading comics!

[@ziljin]

Mark Criley says 99% of artists use reference images and there's nothing wrong with it. Oh wow, then I watched the video. Land is terrible!

[@dolphennoizez1345]

99% nowadays....comics need to go back to their roots...ron frenz and sal busema for life!..

[@JerkyMurky]

reference works and tracing are vastly different. People have been using reference ever since people watching became popular. As an artist myself I can say this is indeed true.What land does is despicable.

[@ziljin]

Chris Oposnow I am an artist, in the technical sense that I draw and create art. But I am not talented.

[@jinxie712]

Jerky .Murky Yeah, he's tracing. Not using references. Even on that picture from that book about using references, it shows him tracing over the image. I mean, he could at least do it in his own style and not wholesale trace. He's not even lifting poses at this point.

[@rich8021]

ALL art is from reference, if this guy were an artist he'd know that know. I am an artist. Mark Crilley certainly is an artist beyond anyone here including Greg Land.

[@wynngwynn]

Also, references are common for most artists, although the idea is you use them as a REFERENCE. Not to 100 percent replicate. It's just so that your art doesn't look UNREALISTIC (art usually should have a basis in reality). I think the term should be called "Copying" or "Tracing" instead.

[@RabbiSteve]

Very interesting little documentary/video essay. Your stuff is always good. Thank you.

[@normanlennox4949]

I don't know if you'll read this, but I hope things are going better for you now. I discovered your show by accident, but I'm certainly a fan. I love to have it playing while I work. Keep up the great work, but at a schedule that works for you.

[@cerebros3671]

“Tracing, the success of Greg Land”, also works as a title.

[@garyday227]

Came upon Land with Sojourn. No question that his finished product is appealing to the eye. But the women really do look and pose like porn models. It's both distracting and inappropriate. Good analysis.

[@GiftSparks]

I'm a newcomer to your channel. I just want you to know that it is very educational and I've learned a lot from you. I hope that your mental health is better.

[@vertigq5126]

Alright that intro joke was one of your best. Keep it up ComicTropes! God bless you :)

[@SoftwareAgentsTV]

7:40 Other times, it's pretty obvious Ray Liotta and Ben Affleck are dropping by to say hello. :D

[@ChrisB_517]

Actually, dude on the left is Neal McDonough

[@Fosterpython]

Greg Land has annoyed me for a long time, but I could never put my finger on the exact reason. You just helped me figure out why. Great video.

[@theeverlastingmeable]

I had stopped reading comics regularly after the 90's so I became detached from who the new artist were. I remember seeing this guys art but not knowing who he was until I watched this video and now understand why I was disconnected from his art. I felt nothing seeing it and could tell he used photo references that weren't consistent. Great video!!!

[@CUTEMKUltras]

Chris, PLEASE do another video update on Greg Land. So much more has happened since you made this one.

[@enriquedossantos3283]

reference is taking and image or a mirror and mimic to the paper, , tracing is literally drawing over a photo, thats whi tracing gets a bad rep is more copying than talent

[@thecursor1]

The Funniest Part of the video is the shot of the "teach you how to draw" article that Greg Land did for Wizard back in the early 2000s. I remember reading that issue and thinking "That looks like shit, who could be successful doing that?" After that Article, Greg Land proceeded to sadly prove me wrong.

[@SCDFarmer]

Always enjoy your videos, keep up the great work!

[@joeltbb]

Great video! Understandable points I can agree with. Hope everything gets better soon, a little patience and it will