Kevin Smith's Batman: The Widening Gyre #6 is Bad Comedy - Comic Tropes (Episode 37)

I'm talking about Batman stuff for two weeks. This week we take a look at Kevin Smith's tropes by examining an issue he wrote, Batman: The Widening Gyre #6. In my opinion, the drama of the issue is frequently undercut by Smith's immature jokes. I do think he can be a really funny guy but context is everything.
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[@isoldmysoulnowwheresmytale6945]

Ernest Hemingway once said “write drunk, edit sober” I think Kevin Smith just forgot the latter

[@bozodeathgod]

The George Carlin variant is : Write straight, rewrite stoned.

[@thousandaireradio3199]

That comment made watching this video extra valuable

[@yarmen1268]

(meets random dude in a creepy goat mask) Batman: “Hey you know I peed myself? Come back to my secret base, I’ll unmask and introduce you to my wife.”

[@rando5708]

(has intrusive thought that girlfriend and fiancé is a skinwalker) Batman: *grabs her by the arm and rips out a piece of her hair to immediately DNA test her to make sure shes human*

[@quannguyen-je8cl]

@@rando5708 blud really trusted a whole ass creepy dude more than his fiance he's known for 10 years lmao. Batman lowkey gay af

[@TheNatestOfAllTime]

Silver says "its gonna be tough to top this"(meaning the view), and batman says "I might as well return this then." The ring to her would be better than the view, like he has one more thing in store. Terrible and uncharacteristic of batman but I get it.

[@pinchopaxtonsgreatestminds9591]

The dialogue works fine, he gave her a view, and now he will give her a ring... the other thing.

[@ginogatash4030]

yeah but he's not *returning* it, he's giving it to her.

[@freddyfleal]

since the view would be tough to top, he's joking about not giving the ring to her... the view would be enough. The dialogue is somewhat confusing, I think it would make it a little better if her line was "Nothing's gonna top this" and he answering "I hope you're wrong" (or something like this)

[@pinchopaxtonsgreatestminds9591]

Maybe Americans don't get it, but in England it is common to say something like that.

[@zakunick1]

It’s not really a clumsy line. He’s joking that he will return the next gift to the store (or wherever he gets things from) since it won’t live up to the current gift. It’s not even an out of context joke for Batman since it’s not supposed to be a side splitting kind of laugh.

[@zentrucker]

with the Joker issue, no one seem to ask why doesn't the Judicial system kill the Joker. Why is it Batman's responsibility to be the Executioner? If society's will is not to kill the Joker...?

[@kiko1935]

Very good point he would be on Death Row after his first murder here

[@smcc360]

Because Gotham City is in New Jersey--no death penalty. The feds, on the other hand, should've stuck a needle in his pasty arm YEARS ago...

[@ItsOver9000Productions]

because hes insane. insanity defense

[@Keldroc]

Batman wouldn't even need to kill him. At this point everyone who lives in Gotham must know or be related to someone who was killed by the Joker, including members of the GCPD. There's no way Joker wouldn't have been killed by an "accidentally discharged firearm" in the back of a GCPD wagon by now.

[@Spikex1]

Batman also isn't the only superhero running around, and a lot of the others don't have a no-kill policy. What stresses credibility more than the question of why Batman doesn't kill Joker is the question of why someone like the Spectre hasn't stepped in and turned the Joker into chunky salsa. I'm okay with not thinking about it too much and just enjoying the stories, but if you're a reader who is bothered by Batman never killing the Joker, you should also question why it *has* to be all on Batman's shoulders.

[@andys544]

Everyone knows Catwoman can always get Batman's attention by teasing his Diet Coke fetish. You'd think Kevin Smith would remember that bit of iconic lore.

[@kendallmoore4826]

That commercial raises so many questions; at least Onstar gets him there safely. ;)

[@aaronsarchive82]

Is it a sign of good marketing that I think of that commercial EVERY time I have Diet Coke?

[@brianriff8550]

Batman CAN make a joke or a snappy line occasionally. I've seen it done alright before; limiting Batman to being constantly joyless limits him a fair amount character-wise. That said, Batman CONSTANTLY joking is the opposite side of the coin and I don't like that much either.

[@ItsButterBean1020]

Yeah it's sort of the JL thing (His quipd with Aquaman make sense but when he keeps doing it it's not so good)

[@ItzMeWill]

Batman jokes all the time but he has a very dry sense of humor and he's always dead pan. That's what makes it so funny

[@heelturnsface]

Will Silapheth Batman is sooo deadpan

[@thejuansnow]

Batman is a dry delivery sass MASTER

[@gwenc1371]

I agree, Batman being funny isn't the issue. It's the type of humor that is. Batman's jokes here feel wrong because he's being written like Peter Parker, Deadpool, Flash, or any of the other dozens of quppy DC/Marvel characters out there. Particularly given one of the opening jokes is about the one thing I would expect Bruce Wayne to *never* tolerate jokes about: his parents.

[@GryphonICD]

She says "The view can't be topped" and he replies "Then I might as well return this other thing I got you" as if to suggest he bought her a gift he thought would top it, but seeing as she has said the view can't be, it is wasted. There's no dialogue missing, Bruce is teasing her with another surprise.

[@JW666]

The one with Catwoman all teary eyes and being fragile in front of Batman feels out of character. She has affections for Batman sure, but she's also a strong, independent woman. What they should have done is that Catwoman gets the news that Batman is getting married, she's all straight face and acts like that it doesn't bother her, she may also say "have a nice married life" and when she's off and in another panel where she's alone, she's in tears and heartbroken. She didn't wanna show Batman how devastated she was when she found out about the marriage news. That's what they should have done instead, what she does here in the comic doesn't fit the character of Selina Kyle/Catwoman!

[@dominusfornax]

That's a good point. You are already a better writer than that "sentient hockey jersey"

[@JW666]

@@dominusfornax Wow, thank you! Best compliment I've heard in a long time 😊🙂

[@MaximumCarter]

You're absolutely right and I couldn't agree with you more.

[@JW666]

@@MaximumCarter 🙂

[@Gambit771]

If they were trying to fit her character then she wouldn't care or would lash out like a snobby bratty American college girl with stupid comments.

[@-Lola.]

I actually really don’t like when a writer retroactively changes the intention or context of someone else’s work. I find it really disrespectful. The orchard thing, Batman pissing himself in Year One during his iconic speech, yeah not for me. I’d be pretty upset if I wrote a story and someone did that. Also, you might have missed it, but the Batman cowl that silver wears is the ‘89 cowl

[@godsavant]

Doesn’t Onomatopoeia‘s gimmick fall apart when we JUST heard him speaking normally as Baphomet a page earlier? So now we know the whole ‘only talks in sound effects’ thing is just a dumb affectation?

[@addambelmont3050]

Look it's hard to write dialogue for a guy that only does sound effects...I mean it's hard if your high...and inexperienced...like Kevin Smith

[@paulheap1982]

​​@@addambelmont3050inexperienced? He had written plenty of comic books before this junk

[@addambelmont3050]

@paulheap1982 Yeah, but they sucked. KS hasn't written anything good, so he lacks experience.

[@GMCiaramella]

"That sentient hockey jersey Kevin Smith" ... Bwa ha ha ha hahaaaaaa! That was awesome. :D

[@dsandoval9396]

I can see it now, Kevin Smith doesn't really smoke weed, it's just that his sentient jersey forces him to, and KS is like the battered wife.

[@CalvinChikelue]

Also you killed me when you called Smith a “sentient hockey jersey” lol

[@ancapftw9113]

If Batman wanted to test her hair, he should have just had Alfred steal a hair from her hairbrush the next morning. That would show his mistrust easily enough.

[@Nocturne22]

Or just do it sneakily by plucking ONE hair and say a fly bit her or some shit. Him flipping out and almost scalping her made no sense.

[@josegregoriobencomogomez4958]

But what if Alfred is into it too? Dun dun dun...

[@gedeonnunes5626]

Either this or you could go full thirteen-year-old and say that Batman picked a strand of her hair while they were having perfect rough bat-s3x

[@SlimmArmstrong]

Taking the hair from her hairbrush would be the most in-character thing for Batman to do. But of course, we’re talking about Kevin Smith here, so that’s why this story doesn’t make sense.

[@ericarmstrong7906]

@@SlimmArmstrong you need the root to test tho. I mean i am not sure how my science is too much here lol

[@jasonknowlez]

I think Kevin Smith is intimidated by doing a serious comic. I think he falls back on childish humor so he doesn't have to own making a bad batman story. He can just say, "Oh that was all a joke, it wasn't meant to be taken seriously." He does that a lot with his terrible movies.

[@KTF0]

Funny part is that he knows Batman inside and out. You'd think a person who has professional experience writing and knows the character well, that it would add up.

[@zippoboyshaneshank8954]

And it's true a lot of the time. He's very insecure, but he knows he can make people laugh, so he falls back on that. Kevin is a great person, and I'm his case, it exceeds his talent!

[@braviafeed]

I agree completely. His immaturity borders on pathetic. I like him but he's like a embarrassing friend from H.S. you run into decades later that peaked at 16, you feel bad for him. I mean really, who the fuck brags about being a stoner at his age??! Grow the fuck up already.

[@CabezasDePescado]

i think Kevin Smith nowadays is just a mediocre shill, he has not made a good movie in a long time and he prises literalyl every superhero movie even if it is trash

[@thejuansnow]

Despite his wrotomg style hes not really childish on set, dudes just having fun making movies

[@KAM1138a]

Kevin Smith can't seem to avoid making everything a clown-show of some sort.

[@metatronatra]

KAM1138 fucking clown shoes

[@dante6985]

The Alan Moore story about Superman's birthday is "For The Man Who Has Everything..." Not "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?"

[@kennethd.christy6326]

"For the Man Who Has Everything," was Superman Annually #11, Sept. 1985. "Whatever Happened To the Man Of Tomorrow," was a year later in Superman #423, Sept. 1986 and was framed as the final Silver Age Superman story since Crisis On Infinite Earths had wrapped up. Both amazing stories.

[@OlympicLeprechaun]

@@kennethd.christy6326 Also one of the best episodes of Justice League TAS.

[@kenlieck7756]

@@kennethd.christy6326 The anthology title featuring Moore's Silver Age-style tales is Tomorrow Stories, not Amazing Stories. (Sorry. Immature joke.)

[@RobotsPajamas]

Batman does have flaws. He's a lunatic. At least according to this story.

[@futurestoryteller]

In fairness he's some kind of lunatic according to almost every story.

[@the_architect..]

That's true, and it's pretty obvious that he is. However, this rarely seems to be dealt with in comic books. Like it's never really an issue that Batman is a lunatic. It's stated, but never treated as a flaw because he still succeeds and it never interfeers with his life

[@chancellorpalpatine4035]

I prefer a Batman who is a lunatic just not like this.

[@josegregoriobencomogomez4958]

@@the_architect.. Arguably anyone who puts on a costume and goes out to either commit crimes or go on patrol looking for criminals while not sanctioned by the law is a lunatic to at least some degree or another.

[@Zilegil]

Gawd. The whole batman is crazy thing is a bit of a cliche. Been reading Scott Snyder’s run, it’s nice seeing a version of bats who’s actually likeable

[@jeenkzk5919]

This is what happens when you let fans make comics. Sometimes it turns out great but when it goes wrong, it can go really wrong!

[@jarosbodytko6462]

Especially when those fans are stoned like a pile of rocks while writing it.

[@Clay3613]

He wrote Daredevil though and that was well received.

[@Sammo212]

or a person whose writing is only juvenile humor in films...

[@poohbear01x48]

In many of the Sherlock Holmes books, it's very clearly stated that he's a heroin addict.

[@seand7042]

I think I remember him loving cocaine

[@zippoboyshaneshank8954]

Yup, he shot coke, not H. However, the detective in From Hell was smoking opium!

[@metatronatra]

ZippoBoy ShaneShank I believe that was only in the film adaptation, which was pretty removed from the graphic novel- I don’t recall Abberline having any such opium habit in the comic

[@zippoboyshaneshank8954]

@metatronatra you may be right, I only saw the film. But I am certain about Holmes as I did read that one!

[@aj383]

Sherlock Holmes Returns opens with Watson finding Holmes in an Opium den... Holmes' drug issue was Opium.

[@ItzMeWill]

"Lame villians like Kite man" Me: Hell yeah!!

[@stefanfilipovits21]

Who’d have thought kite-man of all characters would become a fan favorite, but the Harley Quinn tv show made him so charming and lovable and gave him some heart.

[@joefollo4891]

To be fair the 9:00 joke makes perfect sense. "It'll be hard to top this" is what Batman replies to, Batman jokes that he holds back whatever he has in store next for her lack of faith in him, or something close to that.

[@charliesands188]

Kevin Smith is the guy in the room that announces an idea that people may nod to as.. "this might be good." Then when he elaborates you realize how dumb it is.

[@gayspoon3000]

"pissing your pants isn't a flaw, it's just gross" that hits way too close to home dude

[@mechajay3358]

Basically Smith made a Batman comic that takes the meaning of the word "Cringe" to a new level.

[@kendallmoore4826]

It's up there with Batman: Fortunate Son and All-Star Batman & Robin in terms of how bad a Batman story can be.

[@Rometiklan]

The funniest panel was how Baphomet managed to sit in the Batmobile while wearing his 3-foot tall mask. Another great vid, Chris. Kevin Smith is living off the popularity of his earlier works, which used to be really good. I'm not entirely sure what he has done lately which can be considered relevant.

[@GameGuru2004]

he's a podcaster and interviewer now.

[@jamesooten3659]

It's mid 2019. He's basically phoning it in at this point.

[@aj383]

He pays his family's bills by talking (podcasts, interviews for IMDB, etc), being a regular director for episodes of Supergirl for the CW Arrowverse, and writing and helping to create the new Netflix series "Masters of the Universe" in 2019 all while touring with Jason Mewes to promote the new "Jay and Silent Bob Reboot" movie... If he was just phoning it in, he would either have more things popping up, or none of these...

[@donewithmodernlife]

@@aj383 yeah because Masters Of The Universe turned out so well. 🤦‍♂️ The dude has lost what little writing ability he had. As far as I’m concerned he hasn’t made anything worthwhile since Dogma.

[@Kikilang60]

There so much material out there, I can't remember where I seen it, But I remember once Batman, and superman were working together, and superman kept breaking stuff. Superman kept saying, "I can fix it." Than Batman would make a joke like, "What? Super glue?" I thought, that's how Batman would joke, bitter, and sarcastic.

[@adampotgieter8703]

Onomatopoeia would be excellent in manga with the unique connotations that Japanese onomatopoeia have (think JoJo's "menacing")

[@jasonpapai73]

The problem with KS is that his humor is perfect for a 14 year old boys and pretty much no one else

[@jaredgarcia8638]

At least he gives a damn more than Zack Snyder.

[@Sammo212]

@@jaredgarcia8638 I think that's debatable

[@jaredgarcia8638]

@@Sammo212 well Smith did give us a great reinvention of Green Arrow

[@jaredgarcia8638]

@@Sammo212 meant Zack, not Scott snyder

[@poopbuttmcgee]

Yeah that extremely dry Clerks does real well with the preteens.

[@jestersage44]

Silver's talking about how beautiful the view is and says "It's gonna be tough to top this" so Batman's responding to the fact that the view (since it'll be tough to top) will overshadow the beauty of the item he was going to give to her. So Batman saying "well then I guess I should return this other thing" makes complete sense.....I thought that was pretty obvious/clear. You were focused on the wrong thing. - Returning the item vs. the view - but the context is on the beauty of the view vs. the beauty of the item.

[@archonbasileus4249]

"Here, dear, give me a locket of your hair... For luck. I feel I'll be safe if only I carry this with me." There. How hard was that? And then he could have gone on to ruin his marriage with constant mistrust, renewed secrets and planting tracking devices and bugs all over his wife's belongings.

[@jodybriggs1075]

Jesus, that goes from ridiculous to insane. The 'DD' thing made my eyes roll, it's so adolescent. But that 'she has to be a robot' thing. Just wow. No deductive reasoning, no weighing up the likelihood of his theory. F*ck that, "PSYCHOPATH POWERS: ACTIVATE!"

[@HCC788]

I've been out of comics for quite a long time. I am happy to learn what's been going on in the last 15 years through these videos. I did hear that Kevin Smith was going to be writing comics. That sounded like a bad idea to me. I like (most of) Kevin Smith's movies, and I appreciated his inclusion of comic books. Some of his writing in his movies has even been brilliant. But none of that gave me any confidence that he could do a great job writing a super hero book. I suspected he might write comics the way he talks about them-- like a stoned fan. I wouldn't doubt that he has produced some good work in comics. He does have his moments of brilliance. But this Batman story sound exactly like what I thought his comic writing would be. I appreciate your perspective.

[@HollowGolem]

HoodedCobraCommander788 Green Arrow: Sounds of Violence and Batman: Cacophony are the two he did before this. They're better than this. His Daredevil run, Guardian Devil, is also solid.

[@qty1315]

@@HollowGolem That's what makes this run so tragic, as well as his newer movies. We all know that he can do so much better, but he chooses not to.

[@Chalepastel]

My rebuttal to "Batman can't be funny" thing is the Justice League Animated series, in where Batman is legit one of the funniest characters. Especially in ep 31 and 32. Batman slamming money on the counter and yelling "give me a triple, NOW!" to the coffee lady kills me every time

[@stefanfilipovits21]

Batman singing karaoke is pretty great too

[@Chalepastel]

@@stefanfilipovits21 "Am I Blue?" fucking blasts

[@stefanfilipovits21]

@@Chalepastel to quote Kite-man: “hell yeah!”

[@dystrophic]

My headcanon is that Batman's story about pissing his pants was just a lie, and he only said it to relate to Baphomet or something. That is my story, and I'm sticking with it.

[@MrBracey100]

My head cannon is that none of this ever took place.

[@stefanfilipovits21]

I’d much prefer thinking none of this happened at all but if it has to be canon I’ll go with your headcanon. The alternative is just too painful.

[@ahok1937]

My headcanon is that Batman piss himself everytime he fights but he confess it only this one time

[@Regitron3000]

Wow, I don't know how DC let a story like that get published in 2010. Definitely feels like really bad fan fiction. Batman just acts way out of character for the whole thing. One of the primary characteristics of Batman, that's been cemented in recent times, is his hesitancy to trust anyone, even those closest to him. So to see him go out and start spilling secrets to some random "hero" that's popped up is wildly out of character. It's seems like a lot of Kevin Smiths humor is similar to when friends hang around and just loosely shoot the breeze, and start making "what if's" progressively more absurd, while laughing. Like "Ya know what'd be funny, if Batman pissed himself when a grenade went off". Feels like a very inside jokey thing, that doesn't translate well to media. He's done it before with the movie Tusk, which was horrendous, but apparently it was a joke that he came up with on his podcast. They laughed about the absurd premise for like an hour, then he made a semi-serious film based on that podcast episode. I feel some of that humor here is found in this comic. He's talking with friends, riffing jokes on Batman that he thinks is super hilarious (even more so because he's super high) and he put it to the page and it falls flat. If there's one saving grace it's that with 2 major DC continuity reboots since 2010, it's not likely that well get the rest of his already retconned story.

[@TheVetoSkreeemer]

BranchKing3 It still might get published. DK 3 was published ,the same thing can happen with this story.

[@ruekurei88]

@cr87129 Yup, by 2010 KS had a name by then, and DC probably figured it'd be worth it to publish it. It's not even like that's the worst Batman story or story in general, that they've published anyway.

[@AceLM92]

@@TheVetoSkreeemer the Dark Knight Returns was already an else world story, so it can't really be retconned from continuity if it was never part of continuity

[@TheVetoSkreeemer]

@@AceLM92 Dk came before elseworlds were invented. Kevin Smith story can be ignored showing Silver St Cloud alive and well on any future Batman story. It happened with Holly Robinson, she died and came back a few years later with no explanation.

[@AceLM92]

@@TheVetoSkreeemer maybe so, but still doesn't make DKR canon

[@snarkus63]

In the past two decades,I haven't kept up with comics as much as I used to; I stumbled onto *Batman:Cacophony* by accident and it really appealed to me. I learned of *The Widening Gyre* after it had been made into a collected edition...a sealed edition of which I bought without reading it first,a rare occurrence for me. Despite your criticisms,many of which I find valid,I liked it too....but when I got to its cliffhanger ending...I think I actually yelled DAMN YOU KEVIN SMITH at the top of my lungs. And he STILL hasn't finished it!!!

[@greatmuta2]

Could "D.D." also be a reference to Daredevil?

[@mortenwammen4159]

Oh man, I had succesfully forgotten this story...

[@tinstrings6312]

Sing along, kids! "I was gonna write The Widening Gyre, but then I got high."

[@ThatguycalledJoe]

"And then I did it anyway."

[@raygedd9693]

Drinky Crow profile pic! I fucking loooove that show!

[@WobblesandBean]

"I was gonna treat the female characters right, but then I got high"

[@l.gcallahan2840]

@@WobblesandBean "But I wrote cringey-ass gay jokes, and I know why!"

[@RadioMartyT1B]

"...and now I'm shilling Star Wars and I know why...'cause I got high..."

[@shortperson20]

Kevin Smith got so high, even Batman was high

[@dan-b-gone6557]

I’m just throwing this out there because there’s a lot of hate going around: His work on Green Arrow and Dare Devil were pretty critically loved when they came out.

[@randallflagg3700]

I've always been a big fan of his Green Arrow run, "The sounds of Violence" is a good run IMO... but I might be biased since I'm a huge Onomatopoeia fanboy. I even thought that his "Batman: Cacophony" wasn't bad. It's just the third part of the trilogy, "The Widening Gyre" that I'm not a fan of. I would still have bought "Batman: Bellicosity", but I have given up so many times on this sequel, I've stopped hoping. At least Onomatopoeia was fun in Teen Titans: Rebirth

[@dan-b-gone6557]

Randall Flagg Yeah, I didn’t dig his Batman work. At the same time, he’s never been good about hitting deadlines. (Looking at you, Spider-Man/Black Cat.

[@swfcocs1]

Conan Doyle wrote Sherlock Holmes as an intravenous drug user,which goes to your logic of making genius' flawed characters

[@bearVshark100]

Conan Doyle also believed in fairies and ghosts, so that may not have been intended as a flaw

[@johnnyg4374]

great video, now i'm all hyped to see next week's video

[@tanglycrescent6433]

Just dropping to say I am in love with this channel and you chris! Got me back into comics after years of not touching them

[@stefanfilipovits21]

This review is great. Truly, hilarious and insightful. Please keep it up.

[@campbellsoup93]

Batman is *SO* ridiculously out of character in this. The entire time I was reading it, all I could think was that "Batman is acting weird", and "Batman would never do that". I know it's stupid but it really annoys me. I *know* Kevin Smith likes the character, I *know* he knows the character, I just *don't* know why he would ever write him so extremely out of character like this. It's not even just Batman either. Almost all of the characters are acting OOC in this. Edit: Also, I know Kevin Smith can write good movies but every comic I've ever read from him has been bad. Maybe some are actually good and I just need to read more from him but I simply can't bring myself to.

[@JimGiant]

A thick wooden mask could absolutely stop a knife. Why do you think shields were so often made out of wood? Also why say most wood? If most wood couldn't stop a knife but some could obviously he's not going to choose a type that couldn't.

[@maxque2841]

the comic sucks, dude

[@M4tt888_]

Im glad kevin smith made this comic, just so i could see how exasperated you are explaining it 😂 you genuinely made me laugh more than once

[@termsofusepolice]

Smith is to comic book writing what Liefeld is to illustration.

[@autobotstarscream765]

We just need to get the two of them together to form the ultimate dream team! 😂

[@MarioUcomics]

Totally agree with you that they make Batman too perfect. Which is why I think he works best when he takes isolation too far. It kinda makes him a jerk and unlikable at times if done too much as well. But stories like Bruce Wayne: Murder, where he just lived in the Batsuit 24/7 after Bruce Wayne was framed for murder made me realize that his biggest flaw is how he treats other people(mostly his Batfamily) and sometimes his refusal to change. Batman Murder also made me realize he does have some issues of identity and is a bit of a death denier. I think it fits since most of his villains deal with mental illness. The KZbin Channel WiseCracked did a REALLY great video on the Psychology of Death Deniers using Anakin Skywalker but I feel it fits Batman really well in his motivations and outlook on life

[@mattshuey1]

Seconds before that "what was he thinking?!" at the 23 min mark was giving me peak AVGN vibes. Well done.

[@mau_victorino]

I'm in another binge streak of your videos, learning a lot by the way! I was a real comic reader only in the 90s in my early teens, but I have always enjoyed the medium. I just don't follow any title regularly. Your videos have helped me pick some gems up and have a good time

[@ComicTropes]

Great to hear.

[@whitezombified]

Batman not wanting to kill the joker because "eh someone will just take his place" is not batman batman doesn't want to kill the joker, because he doesn't want to stoop to his level, because he is better than that, his parents raised him better than that. He will never kill and he will never touch a gun because of his parents, and if he did, he wouldn't BE batman anymore, he wouldnt BE the boy Thomas and Martha raised. He'd just be another asylum lunatic running around terrorizing people that only he perceives as bad in his twisted mind. And if he did kill the Joker, what's to stop him from killing another, or another, and so on and so forth until he's killing everyone left and right for just jay walking

[@victorq4842]

So Batman is a mental nut case who killing one mass murderer in arguably self defense is enough to send him over the edge.

[@whitezombified]

V H Yes. The Joker is his greatest enemy, so killing him would make batman an unstoppable killing machind

[@victorq4842]

whitezombified I think if Batman really was fighting crime for the betterment of Gotham instead of just to get his kicks he shoulda been killed the joker. I mean it's not like batman hasn't killed before, look at what he did to KG beast

[@CelestialWoodway]

He killed villians in his early Detective Comics stories.

[@facufeg86]

Victor Q Kg Beast didnt die. In another story, is reveal that he never die in that sewer.

[@joshkaid]

The deep cut reference thing is a particular pet peeve of mine. Like, yeah Kevin. We get it. You read comic books.

[@frasert8779]

The reason your channel is so great (on top of the amazing insights) is that instead of just saying something non-threatening you take the time to make and color in a paper plate Batman mask for a 1 second clip, you’re the best!

[@kalangoalpha5920]

Man, Ihave to admit when you said "what's he's thinking" just after "It doesn't make any sense" it reminded me AVGN. Great comic book channel! Cheers from Brazil!

[@jayman8752]

Nothing has ever scared me so much that i pissed myself

[@kung-fu-kevin]

The part in the jl watchtower when he says .so I might as well return this other thing. He was saying it as if there is something even better that he had planned to give her. Simple

[@1BlessEdYou]

Exactly. "Oh, that took your breath away? I guess I don't need to give you this other thing, then."

[@the_architect..]

To me it's pretty obvious he's talking about the ring he gives her in the next pannel 🤷‍♂️

[@telmaromana6034]

Exactly. I really like his analysis but couldn't understand the confusion with that dialogue...silver is saying how hard it's going to be top this off so Bruce makes a joke about how then maybe he should just return the ring since it might not top the satellite view. It's not that confusing.

[@tarmoruusu7933]

@@telmaromana6034 Well of course he was talking about the ring. But how I understood this the confusion came from referring to it as "this other thing" and it sounding out of nowhere because you need to first talk about something for it to make sense to call something "this other thing". So that's why Comic Tropes was wondering if something was missing that would have made it sound more natural.

[@chamone28]

Loving this channel!

[@theriffwriter2194]

I think a lot of bad Hollywood writers should have to write a comic. A lack of talent is significantly more evident when you don't have a bunch of great actors, cinematographers and CGI to hide behind. There's a good reason there's only a handful of writers who can freely bounce between the mediums.

[@drakkenmensch]

"Because Kevin Smith wrote this while he was high" explains a lot of this comic.

[@dylanf3108]

Silver Saint Cloud is such a horrible name.

[@donaldpetkus1637]

It does sound like a model of Rolls Royce.

[@qty1315]

Sounds like a Spider-Man character.

[@jaystone4109]

A retirement village in Florida

[@aderemiporsche]

It sounds like the name of a beachfront rental service in Florida.

[@HueysComics]

Another great episode! look forward to seeing your interview will Phoenix Jones!

[@sicksabrestyle4357]

The face you make when you say Walt Flanagan’s name and the way you say Comic Book Men is priceless

[@nknighton70]

The Beatles used to come to the recording studio stoned and did a kind of dress rehearsal. Then the next day they'd come back sober and record. Maybe Kevin should've done the same thing.

[@andreoaugusto8403]

Kevin Smith is the Seth McFarlane of comic books

[@turtleanton6539]

Yeeep

[@PayamRPooya]

which is ?!!!

[@TheZooropaBaby]

Isn’t Seth’ sci-fi show Orville relatively well received and free of stupid jokes?

[@JM-co6rf]

No. Seth McFarlane is talented.

[@branc2795]

@@JM-co6rf if being one of the most embarrassing excuses for a comedian ever is 'talent' then yea.....dude is lower than dane cook....lower than amy shumer. Dude is the onision of the comedy world. He might be the worst 'comedian' I can think of. I have no clue how he got where he is and I'm not the only one....glad you like him tho.

[@filmtorres]

Very insightful, as usual.

[@mr_gl00m32]

21:05 Lets say you want some sort of humor here. The idea of Deadshot knowing literally all shooting weapons is actually hilarious and works well within his character skill set. Like how Batman is so badass or brooding that it's sometimes comical. So have Deadshot turn to look at the crossbow and say, "Wait... Is that a 17th century french crossbow? Listen man, I ain't dutch." Deadshot raises his hands to 'surrender' but actually to auto-reload his gauntlets and fire and Batman takes him out.

[@stefanfilipovits21]

“Listen man, I ain’t Dutch” is so brilliant and hilarious I just had to say something. Bravo!

[@mr_gl00m32]

@@stefanfilipovits21 Bless you for saying so. Hahaha.

[@AkuTenshiiZero]

Holy crap, that whole moment of paranoia and ripping out her hair is absolutely random and makes no sense at the moment it's placed into the story. And c'mon, if Batman really suspected something, he would be subtle about it, she wouldn't even know about it unless he decided to tell her later on. As for humor, Batman CAN joke, but his jokes are often a dry humor. He made plenty of jokes in the animated series, usually while alone with Alfred and/or Robin or to add an extra bit of salt in the wounds of a defeated Joker.

[@codyyarbrough9514]

I'd be mad as hell if I were Superman, lol Bruce really brought his girlfriend over to the Fortress of Solitude, a secret location where Superman holds his most prized possessions and the last remnants of his home planet Krypton. He violated that secret just to show off 🤦🏾‍♂️

[@tweetybird4900]

I never thought I'd hear you say raw-dogging it on this channel lmao

[@blackphoenix77]

This comic flew completely under my radar when it came out, and thank God that it did. Whatever happened to Silver St. Cloud?

[@josegregoriobencomogomez4958]

She later reappeared in, and I swear to God I'm not kidding, the Batman vs. Elmer Fudd comic book.

[@Bustermachine]

For some reason this actually overlapped with my current interest in woodworking. On the baphomet mask stopping a knife it really probably depends on the kind of knife and the kind of wood and its thickness. In reality no wood is going be able to resist a metal tool. But a knife also isn't really designed to cut or split wood. You could do it, but not easily with the motions a knife is designed for. So if by knife we're just talking about, say, a switblade or some sort of generic street thug knife, yeah, I can believe a wood mask could be strong enough to stop that. It gets more unbelievable if we're talking about something like a machete. The mask might blunt the impact, but it would definitely be either split or critically damaged.

[@kingbeauregard]

"... but I guess it's in continuity ..." More like "incontinent-uity", amirite?

[@DunnoJustLuckyIGuess]

I feel like this comment deserves A LOT more love.

[@stefanfilipovits21]

Heyoooooooooo!!!!

[@sublow]

This is still the best comics show on KZbin

[@chucktownattack]

When you're saying Baphomet, you're emphasizing the wrong syllable. It's BA-phomet. Not ba-PHAW-met.

[@guybob548]

18:20 Kevin Smith was just trying to make his real life pants pissing during his first speech seem like a moment of character building he and the bat could share, instead of just an embarrassing. Well if Batman can admit pissing himself maybe someday i can!

[@Mo11y_Mi11ions]

don't blame weed for this mess. I'm stoned 24/7 and this is a hot pile of garbage. weed didn't do this.

[@metatronatra]

Mr. Lagtastic I think Kevin smith for all his good qualities is still slightly insecure and becomes overly reliant on goofy banter, then he can always claim it wasn’t meant to be serious... a bit of a cop-out (no pun intended) but a lot of people who grew up overweight and nerdy rely on self-effacing humor to escape harsh criticism. I’m not trying to dog on the guy; he seems like a great dude and I grew up on him but that said I’ve noticed that about his character

[@viscountrainbows6452]

Nah some people are legit just bad stoner stereotypes and should put down the bong, and donate their stash to someone that can make use of it, lol. That or tell his guy to give him sativas and not indicas, idk

[@jonnybaze]

Mr. Lagtastic exactly. It’s like I’m watching a movie where they mistake weed for lsd.

[@stefanfilipovits21]

Might be the best comment I ever read

[@Facade953]

Batman: It's over Penguin! Prepare for a...FIERCE POUNDING!!! Penguin: Okay, just beat me up and take me back to Arkham. Batman: No, i mean it...LITERALLY! Remove your clothes. Penguin: Ah, the direct approach! I like that in a man with a mask!!! Batman: Remove your clothes or you would you like ME to do it for you?

[@MarkLipka]

@Chris: a fair and evenhanded critique.

[@nitroexpress6294]

Kevin Smith's Batman is what happens when writers forget Batman is a Shadow rip off. Frank Miller's dialog is right out of the old radio plays. Smith's dialog is right out of two dudes making jokes in a comic store. Never forget what evil lurks in the hearts of men... The shadow knows (that Kevin Smith sucks)

[@lynngall4277]

I've always thought Kevin Smith was all about "Aren't I clever". :/

[@skelibopeli6765]

I wasnt ready to hear you say "raw doggin it" lol 🤣

[@jamesstewart8500]

Excellent analysis!

[@gazz_N7]

Thank you, this is the very reason why I cringe when I see his name attached to any comic title. I don't think he's all that good, and this is a prime example.

[@kylemoody6864]

Awesome review. I hate Walt's half ass lazy art style. It's like he doesn't take much pride in his work.

[@kylemoody6864]

on a side note I refer to Kevin Smith as the M. Knight Shamalaa of the pop culture universe.

[@ianfinrir8724]

As I've gotten older I've realized that Kevin Smith is exactly the kind of person that reads the fanwiki but has never played the games.

[@dekopuma]

Three years after this video and the comic still hasn't been continued.

[@williamherman778]

Onomatopoeia in live action would just be Micheal Winslow from police academy as a serial killer 😂😂

[@stefanfilipovits21]

Haha 🤣🤣🤣. That’s so true!

[@drxstudio5812]

It's technically called a bolt not an arrow

[@robesdebah4811]

That 'might as well return this' line works fine. She said the view would be hard to top; he intended to top it with the proposal.

[@omnicowdemon]

Great review. Subscribed.

[@nohomers100]

11 times in one night? That seems comically excessive

[@kimifw58]

It is. I think that could actually kill a person.

[@comixamples524]

You know Kevin Smith himself said that he never actually use to smoke weed when he made his first few movies and most famous movies but then a couple years later he felt that he couldn't write good material anymore so he started smoking weed and welp here we are. I guess don't do drugs I don't know I hear some drug can help you write better KS just took Weed which makes you lazy.

[@delawarecomicdude4333]

I remember reading Smith's Spider-Man and Black Cat The Evil That Men Do series and HATING IT cause making the Black Cat a rape victim was complete insult to the original creators and long time fans

[@Jerel_con_jota]

Man…I lost it at “raw dogging it and getting all sweaty”😩

[@chainyrabbit]

the issue isn't that Kevin Smith made batman wet himself, that's how the human body reacts, the issue is that batman would never admit that out loud to anyone

[@theos1022]

He’s got exceptional control of his body even being able to manipulate his how heartbeat. The notion that he’d accidentally piss himself is not only highly unlikely but it’s very juvenile writing at best.

[@DrewLSsix]

Theo Smith It’s juvenile to think that someone would be that perfect right away.

[@NeutralGuyDoubleZero]

@@DrewLSsix what do you mean right away? Hes been training his body for decades. And I guess the whole concept of batman is juvenile to you since the whole point is that hes the pinnacle of what a human can be.

[@josmonlee13]

@@NeutralGuyDoubleZero well I mean firefighters are specifically trained to run into fires to look for people, they train there bodies and minds for it and even they admit yes that happens a bladder spasm is an actual bodily reaction to extreme heat its involuntary, and yeah there are only two people I can think he'd ever admit that too either Alfred or Dick

[@NeutralGuyDoubleZero]

@@josmonlee13 I dont mean any offense to the genuine hard work they do saving lives, but comparing the stuff fire fighters put themselves through and their training to batman is absurd. How many firefighters do you know of that travel the entire globe mastering almost every science and martial art, training with a literal secret guild of immortal ninjas, and perfecting every physical AND mental aspect of themselves? Probably not a lot. The whole point of batman is that hes a perfected human in every way except maybe genetics. I could buy that he maybe urinates his suit/pants during extremely stressful situations (not that I'd ever wanna read that detail in a story), but thats an awful example considering the bullshit batman pulls on a regular basis.

[@strawbabyblaine5299]

The story of that comic seems very random, like there isn’t a set story

[@futurestoryteller]

What the hell! What are the odds!?

[@JulianAlvarado2006]

I mean, the writer was kinda waisted when they wrote it.

[@stefanfilipovits21]

Definitely. It’s disjointed and meandering and seems like it’s all just off the top of his head.

[@ZaireXIII]

What is most aggravating about Kevin Smith is that he has interviewed key creators behind decades of Batman stories and he used none of what he learned.

[@turtleanton6539]

😂😂😂😂

[@joeydewey1640]

Im waiting for an R. Crumb episode. I love love love your show!