Commander Players Want To Do Stuff

[@Kryptnyt]

I think a good amount of commander players can be convinced to pay for Rhystic Study, but as soon as one other player gets greedy that all seems to go out the window

[@edhdeckbuilding]

in my experience this is what usually occurs. as soon as one person doesn't pay, everyone stops paying.

[@VexylObby]

Which is why I think the card is too strong for casual play.

[@thomaspetrucka9173]

It’s a prisoner’s dilemma. If just one person doesn’t pay, they get ahead and the person with they rhystic study gets ahead, and now you might as well not pay if you want to stay in the game.

[@Kryptnyt]

@@VexylObby Maybe not too strong like Dockside, I think it's more in the group of too annoying like Winter Orb. Definitely not a card you want to see two players at the table drop for sure

[@davidc.parkins1680]

Yeah I agree with this.

[@johna8670]

I play with a lot of very good players that play around cards like rhystic study and archivist of Oghma. Smothering tithe is a little different because the tax is heavier, but they still put some thought into if they can pay or not

[@Paul._.C._.B]

Yeah, I think that it is half and half, some will not care until it is too late while others will just take the time to think and adapt their plans.

[@25_Cats_in_a_Trenchcoat]

If they are paying 4 for smothering tithe I'll let them have it~

[@lynxthewise7233]

You mean having my 6+ CMC Commander get Darksteel Mutation'd on cast isn't fun!?

[@grizzerotwofour7858]

It is if you cast the Darksteel

[@hunterransom2594]

It is hilarious though 😂

[@TheOtherDoughnut]

I run it with avacyn so when I do a board wipe you keep your 0/1 vanilla commander 😂

[@dariocampanella7992]

I mean they cant use it on cast, it would not have a legal target and the mutation will fizzle

[@dariocampanella7992]

That's reminds me the discussion on MTG goldfish about sauron Dark lord. Richard and seth were assuming people will sac their legendary to target the dark lord. That guy has basically hexproof.

[@geniusd2299]

I think another commander that follows this idea is my Council of Four Deck. I focus on trying to fill my opponents hands which in returns gives me more knights. And unless it’s down to one v one or out of gas for their hands. They will always cast their second spell.

[@sogwog]

Ended up removing all my counter spells a few months ago for the sake of doing "stuff". New deck building mentality is just trying to do my "stuff" better than they can do theirs. Way less consistent, but much more satisfying!

[@damienclairat1574]

Same thing here ! When i'm building a deck who needs to do silly stuff, i tends not to put that many removal, unless it's really in the theme.

[@mofomiko]

Until the "stuff" they do is Narset, enlightened exile extra combat Voltron. I started putting less removal in my decks for the sake of my playgroup, and with more time, regret starts to kick in

[@HarmonicResonanceScale]

I run like... 2 or 3 because some people in my pod build decks that need to be checked. I will never feel bad about countering ramp in a Koma deck because I know the player who runs Koma will *never* let anything happen that could possibly affect them. Play to your pod.

[@syrupbender]

Same! My playgroup uses noncreature counters only instead (negate, an offer you can't refuse, etc). In my mind counterspells should only deal with noncreature spells, mainly instants and sorceries (removal). Its made for more fun and longer games, blue players can still play blue and its literally not an issue, whereas everyone else isn't getting completely shut down.

[@RollingCalf]

​@@syrupbendermost of my blue decks don't run counter spells. But if blue is gonna forego counter spells, each colour should forego their unique mechanic. So no discard with black No lightning bolting with red No ramp with green No exile with white

[@monomanamaniac]

Lotho is actually going to be interesting because it might encourage your opponents to cast spells so you ping yourself

[@ZOMBIEPWNER365]

thats true. but also have to consider youre in white. and if a lotho player is building off of lothos triggers they will be playing some sort of minor life gain strategy as well so it isnt as much of a downfall late game

[@VexylObby]

I have a player in our circle that plays all of these greed effects, because they think that life is that much of a resource. But it always turns out they are at 10 life and now the arch enemy. Their frustration is entirely their fault.

[@ZOMBIEPWNER365]

@VexylObby im in the process of teaching 2 people to play and bringing them into the playgroup. One of them LOVES life gain strategy and tokens. Tokens are fun and all but no matter what cant get him to understand how to use his life total

[@monomanamaniac]

@@ZOMBIEPWNER365 I feel that. I've been teaching my wife how to play Tergrid and she hates the deck because you have to sacrifice and discard your own cards sometimes to steal everyone else's stuff

[@Shikigami6]

@@ZOMBIEPWNER365 Then give them a Lathriel deck. Just throw a bunch of Lifelink creatures in it which will basically double their own power each time they deal any damage and as a side-effect your life total will be 100+ most of the time.

[@thetruthisoutthere8714]

Spells cast in first main for me are often because they either effect combat, even if it can't take part in combat (summoning sickness), or because combat doesn't matter and it's essentially a single main phase turn.

[@izaiahsundquist6877]

Lotho enabled me to have an engine in my Cadgar deck to draw about 3 cards per turn and my play group still played their 2nd spells each turn because they wanted to play the game.

[@nathanshattuck4399]

I think this kind of depends on the playgroup though. In my playgroup, we pay the rhystic study cost all the time. My friend played mystic remora and for 3 turns, none of us played any non creature spells so they just didn’t pay the cumulative upkeep and sacrificed it. We pay the costs and ruin it for the rhystic study players. But again, I think that’s just a play group thing.

[@jmanwild87]

A card is much better value than a treasure. Who cares if they have mana if they don't have ways to use it? that and it depends on how much you're paying. an esper sentinel or a rhystic study i'll pay for and a mystic remora i just won't play into if it drops early. Smothering tithe is much harder to pay for because 2 every time you draw is nuts

[@damienjohnson3450]

@@jmanwild87 Smothering tithe is also harder to justify paying the 2 for, because they are only getting 1 mana vs. the 2 you pay to stop them. I pay for most tax effects except for that one unless the have a token doubler.

[@N4chtigall]

Well, the problem is that it's usually a bad choice. That's why those cards are strong. In most cases it's worth much more to just play normally and develop a board state and then deal with those effects because there is a pretty big chance that person will get targetted anyway. So basically one person gets a lot of advantage but at the same time rest of the players combined get the same amount of advantage by playing normally.

[@jmanwild87]

@N4chtigall disagree here. Sure, playing a rhystic study does make you an enemy, but only if people play into it. And the more you play into it, the more they have answers to deal with whatever you use to deal with their board. I understand that sometimes you're going to have to feed the fish or play into Study, but if you don't have to, don't. If you just play into it without a care in the world, the rhystic player can just drown the table in card advantage. I've seen games play out where study goes unanswered not for lack of trying but cause rhystic drew them into countermagic and protection spells. And it can basically win you a game by itself

[@nathanshattuck4399]

I agree that smothering tithe is a really difficult card to pay the cost for and I probably wouldn’t. 2 many to stop them from getting one isn’t worth it. But I will always pay the cost if I can to stop the card advantage, I would say that 70-90% of the games I have played where a rhystic study goes unanswered, that player wins. So pay the cost and watch them grumble to whole game about it being a dead card.

[@ztutt19]

This patron interaction must’ve been something to warrant this vid 😂😂😂

[@satansamael666]

In CEDH, you will eventually start wanting to play soft hate that generates value because you are greedy for the value and you want that value for cheap. Esper Sentinel is basically a 1 mana Bob in the game and Smothering Tithe is just a 4 mana hard to remove Seedborne Muse.

[@rawrxdtonepforme9360]

In my play group they do usually for these kinds of effects. This typically goes one of three ways. The person with the effect gets tunneled out of the game; It does absolutely nothing to the other players because they ramped like crazy or have infinite mana; or they criple their game to stop you from benifiring from your card.

[@connorl0204]

Mystic remora is probably the only card where people (sometimes) will forego casting the spells they want because they know that if they can convince their other opponents to not feed the fish it will remove itself eventually.

[@dr.fantasticsemporiumofthe3460]

In my playgroup everyone ALWAYS pays the one for Rhystic Study lol

[@saveachip2620]

I think also because casual edh often relys on creatures dealing damage to win that people cast their spells in their frist main phase, atleast towards the end of the game. To either amass large boards so they can attack or buff their creatures up so they can finish the game out, think jetmir or craterhoof

[@TheCCPlayer]

I had a green player recently, who refused to activate any ramp spells or his fetches while I had Deep Gnome Terramancer on the field. I flashed him in T2 to no ramp spells, and for the rest of the game the gnome just sat there and did nothing. I ofc don't know the green player's hand, but he had a Panorama on the field and a Kodama's Reach in hand, but never activated either just to not give me a land. In the end I never used Gnome because the other two players were W/B and U/B/W

[@QuicksilverSG]

Although Ghostly Prison is technically a tax, in practice it's effectively a stax card that prevents you from attacking a particular opponent. Lotho, Corrupt Shirriff is NOT stax, it doesn't prohibit you from doing anything, it just gives your opponent a bonus when you cast a second spell.

[@deathcore1097]

I play taxes! Archangel of tithes,ghostly prison,propaganda, smothering tithe, rhystic study, mana leak etc etc I love it.

[@SwedeRacerDC]

I pay the one as often as I can, but there's times where I need all my mana. I think these cards will give you a lot of value, but people will take those cards into consideration. I paid 6 to attack an enchantress deck yesterday, but it also killed them. But yes, depending what's in play, it might affect my play. I just build mono blue Vhal/Clan Crafter and could easily tap get for all the mana I need to pay the taxes and then untap her with various methods. Either way these cards will create value. Treasure Nabber is an instance of a card that people don't "pay". In that case, it's handing over control of a mana rock and I've watched a whole table stop using their mana rocks just to not let me borrow it. This was in a 5 player game even. So the cards do a little bit of both. Giving people options always puts them in control of how that card works, but mostly you get the stuff when they don't want to pay.

[@Duchess_Van_Hoof]

So I have a Cleansing Wildfire in my Jund dragon deck, as I wanted thematic and non-green mana fix. Mana fixing is far less of an issue so I end up using it offensively. There is often one player at the table with a bounce land or an aura on their land and suddenly I get value. Admittedly, it is very harsh for a two mana cantrip.

[@jaysonvick2175]

Great video.

[@themicrophone0]

Placement (aka synergies) plays a big roll. I think, rather than being just generically good, i like to run synergies. I have 2 rystic studies. On in a deck that is drawing cards, and i don't expect them to pay the 1, and another in my wheel deck where if they don't then i will draw 1 ping 1 every time.

[@sirkitteh9482]

You're 100% correct about all of it. I view my decks a little like a Rube Goldberg machine. I meticulously select 100 parts to throw together, usually with some kind of theme or mechanic or archetype in mind, and I love to watch it come together and finally work. I only run interaction or counter magic or board wipes because my typical group are way more proactive with those sorts of cards, so I'd never win if I didn't reciprocate. All I wanna do is build my stupid little machine and watch it do the thing, and if my opponent gets to draw a card every time I add a piece to by "do the thing" machine, then so be it. If they get a treasure? That's cool too. If you cast Cyclonic Rift and tear my machine apart piece by piece, I will hate you and your entire lineage. If you destroy my stupid little machine, or throw a big fuck off wrench into it, just for another player to win the next turn when your counter spell or destruction spell that you just fucked me with would have saved the game, I will never let you forget it. Taxes are inconsequential, so long as I get to build my machine, and if someone builds their machine faster, then that's fair and balanced commander and I won't be upset. But nothing will keep me from building my doofy little machine.

[@mibbzx1493]

You can still do that by paying your taxes too. If you cant pay for one turn, somebody else should rotate but next turn you def should pay because you didnt last turn, if you feeding them because you wanna be greedy then it affects the entire table and everyone loses.

[@DarkJusticeMetal]

My favorite deck is all about supercharging my opponents' decks and getting everyone to play the game. (Of course my deck is built to take advantage of all the extra game actions)

[@ledrociam]

Just had a convo about this with my friends last night. The way I look at is that in general it's not worth paying any of the taxes except for Rhystic study. I will pay the tax for UPTO 2 cycles after it came down. If everyone at the table does it too then I feel as if that wasted enough gas for the Rhystic player.

[@mr.mammuthusafricanavus8299]

On Goading: I really dig some of the new Blue creatures that goad namely Mocking Doppleganger and Sly Instigator. I put both in my Unctus; I love how Sly Instigator might as well read Tap,Pay Blue to Goad opponents creature, they can't be blocked, Loot (Draw a card and discard a card). Mocking Doppleganger is becoming more of a staple to me Flash in a clone that copies the best creature on the board and goads all other creatures with the same name :P

[@johnbolton2183]

I have a friend in my pod who PAYS. Almost always it feels like!

[@mofomiko]

Poor guy, he must have a hard time

[@matthewgallaway3675]

I tried to make a deck that’s all cards that trigger off of what my opponents do but it was too hard to try and keep track of everything.

[@thatguycam1989]

Players definitely pay for rhystic study. It depends on the playgroup, but it definitely happens. Some pay every time.

[@bluesight_]

I really want to build a "opponents can't.." tribal deck

[@rudyh721]

This is mostly all true for any group, but I have a gix deck which should encourage people to attack each other for resources, but I swear it just makes them want to kill me instead when he hits the table. As if they are offended that I try to direct them into hitting each other, they hit me out of spite. Or sometimes it seems that way at least

[@scottricks1676]

Agree with this pov 1000%

[@BanditZRaver]

For me, SOME people will tolerate the tax to a point. Example, if 2 people already agreed to pay the tax or prevent themselves doing their 2nd cast, then most likely the 3rd will follow suit. However, ive noticed that after 2-3 turns, Demo's right, people will give up in holding themselves back, when the problem still continues, if no one destroyed the Studies/Tithe for at least 2 or 3 turns, everyone stops paying, and the ONE player who still paying is hosing themselves because the other players are offsetting the balance. But the most interesting thing is, no one chooses to use their removal, not being its an Enchantment and Black (example) doesnt have endless Enchantment removal. Theyre all waiting for that One Guy whose gonna "promise" to use Farewell, which they never do.

[@elguapobandito2833]

Let’s see a deck with the top 99 saltiest cards

[@JessBritvec]

As far as Lotho goes, I'm not sure how good he can be in general, but he's just highly meta dependent. My main playgroups are not going to be casting two spells in one turn, they are going to be casting spells on every else's turn. Outside of them, the generic commander players I run into are casting one ramp spell into one midgame value spell a turn, until they can cast one big thing that costs all or most of their mana. They might have one or two turns where they help the Lotho player, but I'm not sure that's worth having a deck built around him. It's me who's going to be giving the Lotho player treasures. 😂 As far as tax and things like Rhystic Study I think I experience about 50/50; my main playgroups like strategy enough to discern when you should let a player get ahead of you, build your own board state and let them become arch enemy and when you can't let them. Prison effects only work for so long before your opponent runs out of things to do and can use their mana to pay the tax. The people who just want to do what they want to do regardless of what is happening are the most likely to run out of gas. Then they might pay to alpha strike you just to make up for all the turns they couldn't. Pairing prison with a board wipe later works pretty good though.

[@saveachip2620]

My friends always complain about smothering tithe while im a huge advocate for always paying the 2 on ur draw unless ur deck is based around draw spells. Theyll tell me "if i pay the two everytime im gonna lose cuz i wont be able to do anything" when in reality, u lose if you let the player with the smothering tithe get 10-15 treasures for free. Ive tried convincing them to imagine that your two worst lands are just tapped until we remove the smothering tithe and that what you play will have to work around that hinderence and if you have a really massive play you need to pull of in 1 turn or need the extra mana to survive then fine. But otherwise, two worst lands, just keep em tapped

[@uphillwalrus5164]

The last person in turn order would be up on tempo if they didn’t pay the 2, giving the tithe player only a slight advantage. If I see two of my opponents go down two lands, I’m probably better off taking advantage of that than agreeing to lose tempo for the sake of the tithe player who’s already at an advantage either way

[@returnoftheduelist9790]

In high power and cedh metas, yes rhystic study and and cards like that are ridiculous. That being said they arent casual cards; ghostly prison effects are fine just slightly annoying, but straight tax, stax, and “i play the game not you” is bs for casual edh. Ppl went into edh with their 1v1 legacy and modern mindsets and now we have ppl showing up to casual edh day with only cedh decks and no casual options……edh is meant for casual, keep your cedh and 1v1 mindset separate!

[@chachi_arcola]

I lose my whole entire mind when people don't pay for rhystic study

[@kapiatgatas]

Not only they will not pay. They won't removed it from play, because they are holding for some bigger spell to deal with later on. Which is a gamble. That happened to me. I end up with 30 treasure tokens that I did not use, because I have enough lands and doubling mana. I still won the game, but I end up of useless treasures I did not expect will happen. The same thing with drawing cards. I did not expect to draw my library that I lost. I did not have a Lab, Thassa and a Jace, because that was not the design of my deck.

[@davidc.parkins1680]

IdK I have had MANY experiences in EDH where players will pay the cost for Rhystic Study...perhaps it is just my play groups but the advantage it gives is so strong that most of the time my friends and myself are willing to pay for the Rhystic Study to prevent such an imbalance.

[@stickybomber3392]

I feel like it depends the pod I play with 3 different pods and one group is very loose and do what they want and my two other groups when we use high power decks we will play around tax cards all the time. So it depends if your opponent has a card in had I will always pay for any tax to not give them advantage or I’ll do it for politics in whatever way. So I agree but it depends the pod

[@coolbeans6148]

Good. Vid

[@lirabaseball01595]

@EDHDeckbuilding hey if you are up for a challenge can you do a deck build for a commander that never gets playtime like Balthor the Defiled Minions tribal deck

[@EvertfromNederland]

I've actually played against a guy who actively tried to not play Islands when I played Carpet of Flowers. I'm like great! thats almost just as valuable as me getting the extra mana.

[@jcstaff1007]

Stax is hated bc extreme stax that stop basic lands from untapping slow an already slow game mode down. Stax is hated bc it’s usually applied asymmetrically where 1 player is playing solitaire while the other 3 can’t. Stax is hated bc it feels unfair. Rhystic Study drawing one player cards bc 2 other players didn’t pay is baffling. It’s the nature of the format. Having 3 opponents and benefiting from it feels bad. It feels unfair if you cast a wheel with either a Naset or Smothering Tithe on the field. It’s the reason HullBreaker was banned. There’s such a huge difference in power to these cards and say a card that says “pay 3 mana draw 10 cards” its bc these cards aren’t meant for this format. They’re meant for 1v1 formats. And it shows. Wheeling and getting 21 treasures feels like winning the game. Like it shouldn’t be THAT easy. It’s the same Tergrid feels bad to play against. A smallpox would be a 4 for 3 but it becomes a 4 for 9 in commander. Its why board wipes are efficient but counterspells and spot removal aren’t. Commander is broken but we still love it. Stax or no stax. Preferably no winter orb/stasis.

[@Shimatzu95]

Another video playing into the fact we should just have a secondary banlist for lower power. My main argument: if you dont have to play around stuff you have more deckslots for fun stuff. No glacial casm -> no need for landdestruction, same for many other cards.

[@kingkirbo]

I think stax has a very very important place in higher power games, its a necessary evil to shut down combo decks and turbo stuff. bUT if I sit down to a clearly casual game that everyone decides is casual and you bust out a taxes super stax deck im just leaving

[@sorin_markov]

Idk, in my pod, people always evaluate if their gain is worth giving the opponent the advantage. We usually don't pay for Smothering Tithe or Mystic Remora because those are expensive, but casting my 1 big thing instead of 2 smaller things so my opponent doesn't get a Lotho trigger? Absolutely! Delaying my instant-speed removal to get around Ledger Shredder? Of course!

[@sceadumor]

I stopped playing anything besides cEDH because the average commander player would remove a stax piece ACTIVELY stopping a win on board because they can't tap a mana dork for mana and then they'd have the AUDACITY to bitch about losing to the other player. Yes, this ACTUALLY HAPPENED. A friend had a kiki jiki combo on board with a Purphoros on board and I had Linvala. I play almost exclusively Derevi btw.

[@Davulzz]

I'm currently making this deck. Ishai and kraum partners, with a pyramidscheme theme. I get paid for your work

[@augustobs24]

Lol what pods are you playing against?

[@iAMyourSHADOW02]

I have to say this at every table “PAYYYYYY THE TAX” DO NOT LET TITHE AND STUDY GO UNCHECKED

[@jmanwild87]

The problem with Tithe in particular is that 1 mana per spell is exponentially easier to pay and still be able to do things than 2 mana for every card you draw. I've had games where Rhystic study just sits there and basically acts like a sphere of resistance. But never have i had a game where tithe generates 0 mana.

[@orsettomorbido]

5:26 because EDH is a casual format, played by casual players (or players who don't want to think at that moment). Therefore no, they're not going to play at their best.

[@discobiscuits4251]

Lotho actually sees a lot of play some cEDH lists

[@grip7777]

I feel like my pod plays around this kind of stuff when we can, though we have banned a few of these cards because they are unfun to play against. We basicly allow anything as long as it isn't making the game unfun, these cards do because they are just there to do busted things because people do not pay.

[@mofomiko]

What even if they pay the tax? It still slows them down. Its win-win for you, lose-lose for them. Thats why i only play them very rarely.

[@HopelessXzavier]

TBH the tables I play at do pay the 2. Mystic remora on average is like 1 card for 6 mana lol

[@Durtaz]

Lotho, unless explicitly on board dangerous to do so, would never stand in my way of playing a whole second card. Compared to rhystic, though, I will pay it unless it stops me from making a huge splashy play.

[@zackwilcox3183]

I get the points of this video but man idk how i feel about the statement people wont pay for smothering tithe or rhystic study , at 3 different lgs in my local area majority of players would pay ofc its mostly situational but like 8/10 players would think about it rather then auto let it happen the remainibg 2/10 just say " expect you always have it from me " kinda deal. Rhystic study is essentially just a tax spells by 1 enchantment like grand augestine 4th. The pods i usually join are like 5-6 casuals or 7-9 high power casual no cedh for reference of the type of mindset of players in my typical pods i guess ? And yeah people dont like stax because when you show up to a table to play a game you expect to play said game lol. I'm personally alright with stax if the rule 0 is were playing higher power casual and such. I wouldnt bring stax into a lot of casual pods tho as its simply unfun and just sweaty to get wins.

[@Datawraith-qo7gn]

In my playgroup we are stubborn, so Ghostly Prison got pushed out of the meta. Someone would play it, and the rest of us would make them archenemy and conspire to knock them out. We don't like being told we can't attack.

[@ivernedit]

You don’t care about searching when there’s an archivist out. You care about searching when there’s an opp agent because it puts you at a disadvantage unlike archivist which is just small advantage for your opponent that won’t effect you.

[@jmanwild87]

Add on that outside of Green there's not a lot of tutors in casual so Archivist doesn't get much value if it isn't cast early

[@KriusAerion]

I never pay for these things. I don’t care about winning or giving others advantages, I just want my deck to go brrrr and do the thing. If I can do the thing, regardless of if I win or lose, I am happy.

[@kwintenkoeter7274]

I recently had a game against an Enchantress player who had a great turn and out of nowhere suddenly had like four layers of defenses: all enchantments except one had hexproof, the opponent couldn't be damaged, and something else I forgot. I scooped on my turn, because he was untouchable and I didn't have the resources to remove several layers of enchantments, and I'd be dead by the time I would have them. I just didn't want to deal with that.

[@Durtaz]

This plays into my personal view on heuristics for the format. “Always pay the one/two” “always vote x” (though that one is genuinely typically true, expropriate) etc. The game is huge and nuanced. Yeah denying your opponent cards off of rhystic is probably good, but compare two cards in hand vs like a 3 drop and 4 drop with synergies with your deck is potentially more powerful. The odds that they will draw lands or something that will be a problem later rather than now… I genuinely don’t think that it’s always correct to pay. If you can, yes. If your play is likely better than some card draw, do it. It might seem risky, but that also sounds fun!

[@Syncopiia]

This was my major gripe after years of playing Yugioh. So much of the modern game is simply preventing the other person from playing. Like, there's still a balance and rhythm to it, I'm not saying the game is broken. But it just doesn't feel good to play above casual level for me when everything you do gets countered.

[@imperiallarch7610]

I don't play commander; I wonder if it is because I would always pay for Rhystic Study, lol.

[@chitototoy176]

#truth

[@25_Cats_in_a_Trenchcoat]

I rat brain my instants till i sse a reason to hold at times so when i see this i would hold back just to not needlessly feed it but if i need to interact im not caring

[@Krunschy]

Agreed, but to me Rhystic Study and Smothering Tithe are terrible examples of this, just because they're too good at taxing. So even in a disciplined tax paying pod, they're still insane, cause of the mana advantage they provide.

[@DragonairBuddy]

Anyone else’s playgroup pays for rhystic study but never smothering tithe ?

[@facetoablender]

my friends pay the 1 for rhystic all the time. They don't want me to enter the infinite.

[@ZOMBIEPWNER365]

i love this video. it feels like its a tutorial on how to play stax. i personally love stax and dont mind going against it, and youre right. stax is good because edh players just wanna do stuff. stax just keeps them from doing stuff.

[@mibbzx1493]

I kinda disagree. I always pay if im on curve and not missing land drops. And people should be paying. Because feeding that one player by not pay 1 or 2 measly mana ends up finding their combo piece and winning the game from draw a million cards and getting a mmilion treasures. Pay your taxes and stop giving your opponents free wins.

[@okgut2033]

Over half of my group would rather play slow then help out the rystic study player 😅

[@kelvinmhill5611]

The real question is, should we let all commander players do what they want to do?

[@claytonbixby4966]

At least half of the people I play with pay for most of those things because if you don't in a 4+ player game it is too much advantage. I usually agree with a lot you say but here is where we differ

[@Angelec99]

Controversial Opinion: Commander players enjoy playing the game

[@PraiseChika]

For this topic, why even bother playing a multiplayer game at this point? When we take out all the cards than involve other players, the group is basically playing four games of solitaire separately.

[@BanditZRaver]

In multiplayer settings just because the format encourages more interactions, doesnt mean the players themselves are forced into it. The point is People value their actions more than the board state. They still bank on tax cards to be solved by the other players, "i dont need 5 removals, someone else will" or "its okay if i cut some cards, someone getting 2v1 while i sit out and ramp" some players are really greedy. Smarter players understand they need to cut and make sacrifices.

[@Garl_Vinland]

I hate hyper efficient proactive players, way more than control

[@g4greed502]

i need everyone to realize that this does not include cedh

[@edhdeckbuilding]

people pay for rhystic study in cedh?

[@c.r.bledsoe9322]

People that think ghostly prison is a bad card clearly don't have any token aggro decks in there meta😅

[@IvanGonzalez-fp8sg]

I love tax

[@Suhrvivor]

Giving resources to your opponent is much better that paying the tax and be one or two turns behind everybody else. Plus the extra resources makes them a target so it can backfire to them.

[@reiverdaemon]

Wrong, everyone paying the tax means everyone is just barely a turn behind, while the person who owns the taxing card gets their mana wasted on a card because they got very little out of it.

[@Suhrvivor]

@@reiverdaemon Slowing yourself for a card or a treasure that may or may not be used against you is a really bad idea, remember that card advantage works different in multiplayer.

[@kronusexodues7283]

I like playing against Stacks. it makes you think way more about what you want to play. you have to value your cards a lot more.

[@TheAngelRaven]

I am the type of player that will be very quick to say 'No.' the moment I do whatever the action is solely so that they know I don't care. Yes, paying taxes is a good idea, but it pisses me off so much. It's why I hate Azorius - mainly Blue. I played a game against New Heliod and it was awful having him pump cards drawn for everyone with a Smothering on board. Cool, he has all the draw and all the mana and cost reduc to counter things. If cards in your deck - or just the color/combination - cause me to say 'Mother, may I' then I think it might not be fun.

[@johanandersson8252]

tbh, i prefer giving my opponent mana over cards