Which Strategy Do You Hate Most In Commander?

[@edhdeckbuilding]

So I tallied your comments and these are the results I came up with: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gn_VZJemj6uAlaM

[@aidanates8469]

6t

[@kingxcchable]

As a beginner of mtg, I really like this KZbin channel. It brings out so many ideas and thoughts.

[@edhdeckbuilding]

thanks. glad you enjoy.

[@dalekdestroyerz8448]

I think honestly, the strategy itself does not matter. It’s always the most frustrating when you just can’t play the game. Even just getting mana screwed in a very casual game can be very annoying. But as long as you are able to play and impact the board, usually it’s an alright game.

[@Parallaxus]

This is why I don't like color hose or mass land destruction. They keep me from playing my cards and I end up just drawing my card per turn and discarding to hand.

[@beetree223]

Honestly the only 'strategy' I dislike is when the person has no win cons and their goal is to basically spin their wheels and make everyone scoop from boredom.

[@smashog7500]

Based on this comment, tells me you are not someone that has played the game since Day 1. Win-con decks are part of the problem why people do get bored. Tutoring for your win-con? No thanks. Aggro with a theme, this is a typical EDH deck. Perhaps you need to communicate with your group some more. EDH is a casual format my friend.

[@beetree223]

@@smashog7500 lol I think expecting someone to play a win condition along side their stax, counterspells or whatever strategy they are doing is pretty reasonable

[@smashog7500]

@@beetree223 Agree with you. Now the question is, how DO you win with stax? Thats part why I will never play Winter Orb. You got the board presence. Check. Opponent is slowed down to a crawl. Check. Now, how do you actually win with it? Great point.

[@smashog7500]

@@beetree223 Now to reflect on counterspells. Countering your opponent just for the sake of it, haphazard style, would piss me off. I would scoop right there. Like always, communicate more, and silliness will not ensue. :) So sure, a 'win-con' is needed, but if the win-con is something you tutor for to combo-win, thats so much meh. The video we both watched was timely. I wish more noobs would watch this particular video. Those of us that have played since 1993 have much to teach new players.

[@beetree223]

@@smashog7500 I mean you can look at any stax or counterspell deck in the history of the game and see they play win conditions I am very confused about the point you are trying to make

[@plain6677]

You asked (rhetorically) what strategies are left. There are plenty that are not “annoying” for the majority: - panharmonicon decks - tribe decks like Dragons of dinos - aristocrats - lifegain - just big creatures like simic stuffs - counters +1/+1 and proliferate - tokens craterhoofless - graveyard - lands non-gitrog - boros equipments non-godo - value decks like flickers And tons commanders among the most popular like arcades, muldrotha, queen marchesa, tasigur… Maybe the meta of people watching youtube is not the same as the real store meta, where it’s 90% what I listed above.

[@selkokieli843]

Yes! There's a million ways of playing to a theme and getting value and interacting with opponents while everyone else gets to do the same. Who would have guessed that the og "fun police" rules committee themselves knew that most enjoyment for most people come when people aren't trying to break commander. cEDH players of course being the exception, though in the end they have fun the exact same way, when they get to play magic in their own way.

[@andrewsaunders6429]

From all my experiences, including hardlocking the table myself, I don't really see any issue with ANY strategy. There are some cards that need banning, but that's what the banlist is. The thing that I advocate for most is budget. Setting a price-cap and rolling with it from there is incredibly helpful at resolving most of the balancing issues with EDH. By using a $50, $75, $100 budget, it allows new players to jump in without feeling like they're at a massive disadvantage due to overall card strength. Most green decks would love a cradle, black wants Urborg,ToY and Cabal Coffers... these lands provide an overwhelming advantage. OG Duals and Fetches also provide extreme advantages as well. Bringing everything else in line via budget allows people to play whichever strategy suits them without having to deal with arbitrary "power levels".

[@AceTrace75]

Couldn’t agree more. If price isn’t a problem, a good way to compare decks is to ask “if left alone, what turn does your deck win on?” When playing with new people.

[@therealjeromeo4366]

I’m somewhat of an advocate of pauper commander, where the 99 consists of only commons and the commander is any uncommon creature, legendary or not. It’s inherently budget (except rhystic is legal in this format) and I feel that itd make people really think outside the box for strategy and provide a more fun experience

[@possiblypigeon]

@@therealjeromeo4366 just wanted to say, Rhystic isn’t Legal in PDH, neither is Remora. They were both banned relatively recently

[@Parallaxus]

When you sit down at a multiplayer game with your mono white deck and the black player plays a turn one gloom (after a dark ritual) and you start just sitting there, waiting on your turn to come around, just so you can draw your one card and find something to discard, and you do that waiting until turn 4 or 5 so you can actually play something, only to see the black player play a second gloom, you'll start to see that cards that just make you sit there and not be able to play the game, such as color hose or mass land destruction just make the game no fun. And the lesser problem I have is infinite combos, because when you play with infinite combos you're pretty much not playing magic against the other players anymore, you're just playing solitaire. But really all I ask is no color hose and don't mess with my mana. lol

[@wobblefoot7607]

IVe been playing STAX for sumn like 15 years. The thing is most people who sit down to play magic.. like to sit down and play magic. Some people like fighting their way out of puzzle boxes.. many do not & I think a huge part of the feel bads is when the STAX player doesnt have a wincon other than "opponents scoop" which I believe people like even less than definite win conditions. Having MLD or stasis like abilities on the table while you get beat down by a birds of paradise with a sword on it isnt very fun. But onto the topic at hand: I don't like group hug because theyre typically combo decks masquerading as a helpful deck that hides behind their feel good cards to win out of no where. I do not like "chaos" decks for the same reason many do not like STAX i.e I sat down to play my cards not watch someone else play with them.

[@Digstreak]

yeah, you did touch on a good point. Stax with win con and stax without win con are two completely different things. I have no problems playing against a stax deck as long as the game doesn't lasts 40 turns. With that said, even stax without win con can be fun as long as it's one of those decks you play every now and then instead of spamming every game. That goes for almost all strategies to be honest. My friends hate my yuriko and jodah decks, but since I just play them, like, once or twice every 20-30 games or so, and usually tell them that I'm picking it, they are fine with me playing it.

[@Dinoschnaffy]

Bro I feel you. Took me a year to get to this point but now ill play against anything

[@lildino7593]

Hate bears included?

[@Dinoschnaffy]

@@lildino7593 Yep legit play against anything even MLD

[@Ilikefinalfantasy795]

zurr stax?

[@Parallaxus]

Play a mono white deck and play against someone playing four glooms against you. You'll change your tune, I promise. You're sitting there in multiplayer good and ready for a big long game and you have a nice expensive white deck and the black player turn one dark rituals and glooms. You can't play anything but land and artifacts now until turn 4, and on turn 3, he plays a second gloom. You probably scoop and get pissed. LOL Color hose ruins a game for someone like nothing else (and in my opinion gloom is the worst of them b/c of what it does, plus it can played turn one with a single dark ritual). Mass land destruction is similar to this. Anything that makes one or more players not be able to play their cards and start discarding to hand just makes the game no fun whatsoever.

[@groundswelllegitcoffeeandb3810]

Yeah. I played as an underdog at this high level table and I kept pushing myself to compete at their level. Now I feel the same way. I like no holds barred high level Cedh! (I still think stasis is awful though. Lol. but I'll even play against that)

[@danielwomer]

One of your most thought-provoking videos yet. Thanks, man!

[@BM-rd4ms]

Commander is such a large format that there will always be people who hate what you're doing so just play what you want.

[@DamnCowboys-to2it]

Hell yeah

[@gondwannagondwanna4471]

For real I made a bantress draw card deck and still get hated.. me “I’m just drawing cards man”, them “nope your drawing answers”

[@theliving1037]

Unless they just ban all the cards.

[@AceTrace75]

With things like combo kills and infinite turns, at least they end the game. You can shuffle up and play another game. When counterspell decks or stax decks don’t have a wincon, that’s when I tilt out. If you wanna stop your opponents from playing, go for it, but at least have a way to end the game. That’s why stuff like infect or infinite combo doesn’t make me mad. They end the game so we can shuffle and play another

[@guardbreak4034]

I respect that

[@ProR2D2]

I disagree. I prefer to play against land destruction than to play against Combo Win. As he said in video, it makes a unique and interesting game. If you were really completely locked out or outclassed, you could always scoop. And if you weren't, you should be focusing on your own win-con. I don't think there is a problem. Combo Win on the other hand is not really winning, is more like crashing the game.

[@AceTrace75]

@@ProR2D2 As I said, I don’t mind playing against stax or land destruction as long as they have a way to finish the game. I think it just comes down to preference at this point. I have a group of friends who each have a few decks, and for commander night we all agree that playing ~3 quick games is better than 1 game that drags on. I don’t play much MTGO so that probably influences my opinion on it. I get where you’re coming from though

[@ProR2D2]

@@AceTrace75 Why is 3 quick games better than 1 long game? I don't understand where does this mentality of so many people comes from. I have seen games last around 2 or more hours and all it did is make it more interesting, epic, and memorable. It was a great and memorable experience. If the mentality is "If I don't win I don't care about the game, lets restart" then I think that is wrong. The game is not just about winning, is about having fun.

[@tonyngo1885]

@@ProR2D2 people find winning fun too man and people also like fast games. Long games don’t always mean memorable and satisfying games. It can just as easily be boring and frustrating and it’s way worse in this context because the longer you sit in a game, the more you are invested. It’s why people in Dota 2 go ballistic when they lose because they just spent an hour of their life only to lose making all of their efforts go to waste. It’s just a frustrating mess. At least if you lose a fast game, you can just quickly move to the next leading to more opportunities to have memorable games anyways.

[@lukemailloux6940]

The main issue is people who don’t communicate their decks before playing. Everything is fine just a warning or quick explanation 100% needed.

[@MrXerios]

My friends just don’t like interactions as a whole. They wanna do their thing on their side of the field, and not get countered. I can understand that, but as a dimir fan, I get a lot of salt.

[@nijimazero]

Well, they want to play Hearthstone, not Magic

[@temporaltomato3021]

Why would you build for such a social format just to sit and not interact? I play a lot of "politics" decks because I *especially* love getting everyone involved and talking to each other.

[@angelrivera1420]

Yeah that's corny

[@spilledpizza]

Funnily enough i think the point made around “who will you target with Kismet vs (15 lands, 12 cards in hand etc.)” is a big problem in commander because of threat assessment. At least in my playgroups, threat assessment is abysmal. Would love to see you do a video on that topic.

[@Late_Night_Mega]

My typical playgroup is getting better. A year or two ago, games mostly went like this. Everyone paid attention to each other and wrecked that person's stuff, usually for petty reasons like one person attack them for 2 damage early on before they had creatures, and the back and forth just escalated from there. I could play basically anything, rarely had any of my stuff destroyed, then I amass a big board state and just take over the game and win. Even if they recognize I'm a threat, sometimes they would just be like, well I can't destroy that, but I can destroy something else on another player's board and make them weaker. It still is kinda like that, but not nearly as bad or absurd as it used to be.

[@rings-cn1yn]

With age comes wisdom, and that is definitely reflected in your attitude of letting everyone do whatever the hell they want and not getting so worked up about things. Nice vid.

[@plain6677]

Thassa’s oracle strategies. Everything else is fine

[@edhdeckbuilding]

if i was to ban one card from casual commander, that would be it.

[@tylerrowe596]

I mean I win in my mono blue deck by amassing enough devotion and drawing enough to win with it "fairly". But I also play in a pretty high- powered group, so idk.

[@quinnquitars]

@Plain could you elaborate? Do you hate thassa Oracle combos? Or do you hate decks that win via drawing their deck and then oracle?

[@glebmelnikov5388]

turbo ad nause

[@vahnthemannraseru1810]

They need to kill self mill win cons. So boring

[@markschildbach8859]

Very interessting piece to watch, thank you for creating this. As you asked, I will try to give you the short version of my opinion for each one in order here. 1) Stax - totally fine with me, can even lead to some very interessting games, 2) Discard - I don´t like the mass discard variant, normally there is a point where three players are watching what the Discard player is doing... thats not a game for me, 3) Counterspell - don´t care, in my experience this strategy never works, it is just annoying, 4) Superfriends - fine with me, can even be interessting, 5) Hug - don´t like it for the same reason you pointed out, 6) Infect - totally fine in my book, 7) MLD - not a fan for the same reason I do not like Mass Discard, 8) Chaos - I like rnd effects, but I am not a fan of those "watch the world burn" decks, 9) Combo Win - if it is a creative combo, totally fine. Kiki Jiki - Deceiver Exarch = anti creative, 10) Stealing - don´t care, my playgroup knows how to handle other players cards, 11) Mill - I like it, sometimes it´s even a refreshing way to play, 12) Extra Turns - Despise it, it is the epiphany of not playing a game. There you go, my two cents on each and every one. Interessting thought exercise, seems I really don´t like games, where I sit there and do nothing :D Regarding cards like Cataclysm or Balance - when there played as intended, as being an equalizer, I like those. Balance would be my number one card to come off the banned list... number two would be Gifts Ungiven. So much for short... Thanks again ;)

[@avista1521]

I had this very conversation with a friend of mine in our group this week. Honestly, if you allow all the strategies they will keep each other in check. As always Demo…EXCELLENT POINT!

[@MrNemitri]

Yeah, from my experience, any effect that makes everyone stare in boredom is not good, such as heavy stax with no wincon or an idiotic mass land destruction for the "lulz"

[@Parallaxus]

Amen. Mass land destruction and color hose are my only two "please don'ts". The first time I saw a black player play a gloom just to hose over anyone playing white, and the mono white player just sat there miserable, drawing his card and discarding to hand over and over after waiting for his turn to come around made an impression on me. Color hose is bad, and gloom is, in my opinion, the worst color hose card there both because of what it does and because it can be turn oned with a dark ritual.

[@DocterPink333]

I think the problem with mass land destruction, or land destruction in general, is that it's really easy to mistime; Armageddon was powerful in the standard of its day as a finisher once you got a powerful threat in play and cleared your opponents board, it's a very high tempo card kind of card (very good when you're ahead, very bad when you're behind). If someone just casts Armageddon or Winter Orb or whatever blindly on turn four because they can, all it does is drag the game out forever for no reason. When cast at the right time, it essentially becomes a Silence effect that allows you to close out the game in the next turn or two pretty reliably, just becomes another "I win the game now" kind of card like Craterhoof. Otherwise it just makes a game last an extra hour, lol. So if someone is playing Armageddon because they heard its a good card but don't understand how or why to use it, or they cast it out of desperation/boredom, it's miserable.

[@tacothursdays6546]

The problem is a lot of people don't understand why it gets used in the first place, so you naturally wind up having a lot of people get frustrated at the idea of their lands being destroyed. The issue can easily be fixed with simple Rule Zero: Communicate

[@JohnDoe-vc5qb]

Also if you have ways to make the destruction asymmetrical I would count it as a wincon. Armageddon or Decree of annihilation + boros charm is fair to me.

[@jamesbell8253]

Been playing for twenty years and this is the biggest hurdle for even seasoned players to get over and also one of the first things I try to teach new players. It's part of the games beauty to learn what all there is to play around and the crazy shenanigans you yourself can put together. Great video and analysis.

[@ArcaneSky]

I think my only problem is when a strategy becomes the ONLY strategy or deck a player plays. Playing against Stax or Infect once in every 10 games, it's one thing. It's entirely different when one person only plays Kiki-Jiki or Godo combo, or every white deck they have has Approach the Second Sun.

[@alexanderl187]

I have Yusri solitaire type deck. A jeskai stax deck Dimir zombie combo win deck Dimir rogue mill/steal/unblockable deck Those are strategies on your list that I play and those 4 are actually the most fun to play. I have 8 total commander decks but I don't often play Aragorn, Muldrotha, Ghired or Gargos by choice. Usually by a die roll. So am I a bad guy for liking the mean stuff? No. There is only room for one atop the throne! ;)

[@SWNJim]

In order from least obnoxious to most obnoxious: Superfriends- I’m making a planeswalker cube. There’s ways to deal with them. Infect- a number of cards can protect you or even turn them against the owner. Stealing- not everything is worth stealing. Stax- can be suffocating, but I see it as a challenge to be overcome too. I don’t like the “lockout” effects Teferi, Hullbreacher, [insert blue card]. Counterspell- much more obnoxious in 1v1 scenario than multiplayer. MLD- it’s less the actual destruction and more the inevitable lack of wincon. End the freaking game. Mill- some actually prefer their cards in the graveyard. Discard- see mill. Hug- just helps the more obnoxious strategies be even more obnoxious. Extra turns- solitaire. Extra attacks are thankfully only one phase. Chaos*- time consuming to resolve. See below Combo Win (2-card)- specifically the two card variants. I have Vito and Exquisite Blood in my Edgar Markov deck and I refuse to tutor for EB. It’s a cheesy way to win, but not the most cheesy. “You win the game.”- this is the bane of Magic. There’s so many ways to win and you go the cheap route. Most of these are non-interacting, solitaire, and arbitrary in nature. I wish these were never made. The least obnoxious one, Coalition Victory, is ironically the only one currently banned. The only one I play is Revel in Riches because I can easily avoid using it to win. *there’s a fun and unfun versions of playing chaos. Chaos Warp, Rihanna, Impulsive Maneuvers 👍. Scrambleverse, Thieves’ Auction, Warp World 😡.

[@jestergnome8637]

Yay my favorite deck takes 3 spots on this list. Discard, steal, stax. Although that one is built to be competitive.

[@bbruner3717]

You monster 😂

[@jasonsteavens158]

Who is the commander?

[@jestergnome8637]

@@jasonsteavens158 tergrid god of fright

[@sliralisk]

Most of the strategies are fine as long as they can be dealt with in some way by at least one player. People may feel bad when they lose, and start to blame everything they lose to but this is most often due to power mismatch. People want their deck to do what their decks are built to do. The reason why stax and MLD are most frowned upon is it chokes up the resources of other players and all they can do is sit there draw-go while most of the other "unpopular" strategies still allow people to play the game for at least a bit which feels less bad. Personally, here are my opinions to each of your top 10 strategies that most people hate: -Extra turns: Maybe I will just expand this into solitaire strategies. I can understand why people feel bad since they don't get to play when people are solitairing. I guess im sort of fine as long as they don't start doing it on turn 2 or 3 when all i have are like 2 lands and a rock. Stopping their solitaire catalyst helps too (eg. countering Jeska's Will or Narset) -Infect: Totally fine. Easily dealt with using removals which every deck should at least run some of. Though maybe I haven't really seen a truly powerful infect deck. -Mill: Same as above. But considering how much WotC is pushing mill strategy recently i guess things might change soon. -Hug: Agree with what you said. It depends on how the Hug player plays. Kingmaker is not very fun but if the Hug player always help the weakest player, things will balance out and it will be more fun. -Stealing: Don't see a problem with this. Mass stealing makes the stealer the archenemy and just gets beaten out of the game. -Superfriends: I guess this is more of a 50/50 for me. Have yet to see much superfriends but I know how frustrating it is when playing against them. WotC is printing more PW hate recently so that hopefully helps. Chuck a Flame Blitz in your deck and watch superfriends cry. -Combo: It's fine as long as it is not won consistently in the first few turns, that should belong in cEDH. Games have to end eventually and it is totally fine if someone win with combo. Slow combos usually telegraph themselves when they tutor or draw aggressively. Just need to prepare your mana and removal/counterspell/hate cards when they try to fire off. I used to hate Thassa Oracle but I eventually found multiple ways to stop them outside of regular counterspells and I pack at least 1 Oracle hate in all my decks (Baleful Mastery, Mikokoro, to name a few). Counterspell: I have a counterspell deck but I only take it out when that one spiky player in my playgroup brings something that is too far ahead of the table's power level. Counterspell decks can't stop 3 players completely. They will either run out of mana or run out of counters. It feels bad but it really isn't that bad if you adjust your expectation that all your spell might not resolve. You can also bait out counters if you know how to. Chaos: To be frank, most people, including me, hate this because it is a pain to resolve the mass chaos cards on paper. Otherwise, it is actually kinda fun once in a while. Discard: People want to play their cards and make their decks work, even if they lose in the end. If you have 0-1 card in hand most of the game, you will most probably not be able to do what your deck is supposed to do. No one feels good when they bring a deck into a game to do almost nothing. MLD: Same as above, except now even graveyard decks cannot play. MLD is only fine if the MLD deck can break parity somehow (such as giving their lands indestructble) and the table concedes because they will never be able to catch up. MLD just because you can is not fun for anyone. Stax: Same as above. Playing magic to not play magic is not fun unless the stax player can get a reliable wincon out in an acceptable period of time. No one wants to draw-go for 40 turns looking at your Derevi dishing out 2 damage every turn and win with commander damage.

[@Digstreak]

you said everything bro. I think that when people say things like "I hate stax, I hate MLD, I hate combo" they are usully thinking the worst things that these strategies can do, like -40 turns games -slowing down a game with MLD -comboeing out of an empty board on turn 4 or 5, with little to no setup but there is a great variety in consistency and power level in all of these strategies and they can be built in "ethical" ways to make them fun and casual. I have no problem playing against stax if the guy is going to win at turn 10 with a combo or something. I have 2 decks with mass LD (yedora and avacyn), but they are built in a way that 1: it's not their only win condition, so it's not happening every game, 2: when they do it, they just destroy the opponents lands, so people just forfeit. It's not slowing the game down, it's winning the game, it's no different from a normal combo.

[@selkokieli843]

Well said. Let everyone play magic most of the time and everything else in moderation.

[@yetaruvin]

Your rant regarding strategies that some players don't want to see in casual EDH perfectly matches how I feel. I'm so glad I'm not the only one saying that things like MLD and chaos are interesting obstacles to overcome to diversify our games.

[@ELFudgeOreos]

So sideboards don't exist officially in Commander. Would you argue for them as a way to "solve problems" like that Kikki Jiki/Deceiver Exarch example? Or would you recommend just having a lot of decks? Or, just building every deck with a good removal suite to feel like you have a way to counter certain strategies?

[@smashog7500]

Sideboards for Commander decks are easily abused when they stack the deck with Wishes. >.> Again, WoTC is firmly to blame for that type of abuse potential. House Rules at the end of the day, is how to actually play MTG with friends. A sideboard can be useful, as long as your playgroup has discussed it. I tend to bring 2 - 3 decks any time I used to go out to play with the boys. Since EDH is creature-heavy, always stack some removal. Mass removal is a better option than single target removal cards. Use both types, and keep perhaps 3 - 5 removal cards in any deck. More if you need to protect your Commander. Its not a bad thing to tutor for a removal card if you have tutors in your deck(s) as well.

[@matthewdavis7869]

The only decks I don’t like playing against is the “I win” combo decks (like the kiki jiki thing you were talking about). I just don’t see the fun in a super linear strategy that makes things just feel like nothing else ever mattered

[@christopherpatricklizares5306]

From experience when the format had just been growing, having a wide and varying set of strategies available to the meta both helps keep things fresh and keep it healthy. We saw lots of land destruction into token floods, triple-copied Warp Worlds care of Riku decks, Jhoira board resets that build towards Eldrazi Titans hitting the table, full-permission Talrand decks. Some of the best fun I had in the format, where none of us had anything about social contract, and we had to deal with the strange and weird things that people could come up with as a result. Also gives people an opportunity to figure how to play around those.

[@gondwannagondwanna4471]

Our play group is super open to anything most of the time it’s slivers, stax, infect, wheels and a couple combo decks. When someone upheavals into windfall with a hullbreacher everything is casual we all came to win!

[@lukemackinlay5126]

I think the most important thing is expectations. As long as your friends know that a blightsteel is in your deck it feels a lot better than just getting rammed with it unexpected. If you know your friend is going to try to storm off with extra turns or steal your stuff you're prepared for it

[@JohnEbananas]

I've been debating adding certain "mean" cards in some decks like Blood Moon. I really like your perspective here on it. Great discussion starter here.

[@edhdeckbuilding]

thanks. that's what it's for.

[@Weldryn]

I build a Grouphug Fog deck with the only wincon is Approach of the Second sun. It is fun for me to just lean back an see the other players having fun. I'm the most experienced player in our Edh group and i win a lot of games with my other Decks. Play Group hug and enjoy a good evening.

[@palemoogle3049]

I really like your thought on stuff. I share most of my idea with you

[@Nightmare-fe9hr]

this is the paradox of commander. Every commander deck is carefully pieced together with 100 cards that all work well together, but that means that if you let anyone actually play their deck they just win, so your goal becomes keep my opponent from playing the game

[@charliemarlow647]

Couldn't agree more with your comments on not excluding things. The solution is to just let people know what kind of stuff your deck will be doing before the game so everyone can decide if the pod is balanced. If anything, the only thing I dislike is specific strategy hate. I don't think it makes for a fun game if someone uses cards that affect one player far more than others just because of their choice of strategy. E.g. Vandalblast in a pod with an artifact deck. Fine card for the most part, but if it just takes/locks one player out of the game then they won't be having fun.

[@jaredwright1655]

Demo! I'd like to point out that for my play groups, I've found that playing against a stax deck is groans galore. Not because we dont play magic, but that the game now takes forever with little player interaction. If someone slapps mike and trike out of a turn 4 tooth and nail, at least the game is over and we can have a post game discussion. With stax I have to tell them they're a terrible person mid game, but with combo we can sort it out after.

[@kyleholden7529]

My friends and I have a "House Rule" with our really powerful decks: If your opening hand has at least one mana you play with it. This can help slow the game down to allow us to have a chance haha 😄

[@Sirmarcavis]

I actually run Frozen Aether (same thing as Kismet just blue) in my Tatyova deck. I find it to be a decently good way to slow my opponents down while I get to dig my way through my deck and find answers/combo pieces.

[@flailingweasel8541]

I don't mind anything in particular. It sucks when the MLD or Stax or Storm decks dont get there but it happens to everyone. Win cons aren't guaranteed to get drawn and the decks have to play the way they were intended. Sometimes it drags on for a bit but that cant be helped unless you want to dictate what people should play.

[@Belodri]

The one strat/deck i hate to play against but love to play as is a Krark&Sakashima storm deck. It can win in a single turn but those turns take ages to get there and might not work at all. I've had 30+min turns that ended in me having to pass because of a few bad die rolls in a row. At least with a Thoracle combo that resolves or a Godo deck winning turn one we can shuffle up and play another game right away.

[@TLG1255]

I like the video a lot! People will complain about any strategy (including me lol) but I think the most unpleasant loss I ever endured was my brother playing a Nekusar draw deck, he made all of us draw our entire decks. It was like Mill (a strategy I enjoy playing) but like worse because we were holding all our best cards and not able to use them lol not fun!

[@TastySnackies]

The strategies (players) I hate most are the ones where people get upset if you play counter spells or removal. I’ve played in too many pods where entitled people think that having interaction isn’t conducive to having fun.

[@JadeHex]

Magic players hate people that play magic, qed

[@EidoEndy]

Probably not a coincidence the vast majority of these boil down to 'waah, I want to play my cards'.

[@sleepwellmychild]

Exactly. People just don't like losing.

[@JohnTalmac]

I wouldn’t say I really hate any “playstyle”. I more or less hate that people bring a deck with no playstyle that is just tutors with some form of meta infinite combo for cheap turn 2-3 wins. And it’s not that I fault them for doing it, but if the purpose of playing commander with a pod instead of playing modern or standard is to have fun, why try to go over competitive and win in 3 turns. Just sit there and enjoy the company of others while you play a commander that fits your personality.

[@calinschnurer1133]

Magic at its core, is a game. A game where players get to chose between a variety of cards and a variety of strategies. Eventually, you're going to come across a bad matchup for you. However, I'd rather a bad matchup than try to out buy my opponents. Dealing with those bad matchups is honestly what I enjoy about magic

[@michaelsaldana4103]

Goal assessment I think effects strategies. If you want to win, play to win and play the most efficient cards and show no mercy, but do realize that no one will want to play with you if that is all you do. I treat Commander like going to the Casino. Go to have fun but don't expect to win. If I can play my cards and do my thing then idc who wins. Should be noted I do valuate threat level by commander and always ask if they play competitive or not, i.e. person shows up with Sharuum etc. Some commanders like Tinybones there is not much wiggle room and I will focus on them because I'm not gonna have fun letting them make me discard.

[@Kaybee3104]

The best way to become more understanding of your playgroups deckbuilding personality is to just switch decks for a night. Playing your friends decks allows you to be on the other side of the combo. It is both incredibly fun and useful as it become easier to communicate about specific playgroup situations, ie stax. If you wouldn't play against your own deck, than don't play it at all!

[@Digstreak]

I think that wether or not a strategy is fine for casual is not how strong it is, but how fun, consistent and easy to interact it is. My playgroup has a few decks with mass LD, me included, but usually, when those decks do it, they put themselves in a situation that they just win, they don't slow down the game, they win on the spot. My Avacyn deck is not made to LD every single game at all costs, it has other win cons, but he does have 2 or 3 cards that do mass LD, and everybody is ok with it because, if I pull that off, everybody just accepts that I win and we go to next game. Combos are another example, if a deck can consistently combo out of an empty board at, like, turn 5, it probably isn't casual, but it it need a fuckton of mana to combo off an empty board, or setup for one or two turns before it, giving your opponents time to disrupt your strategy, I think it's mostly fine. In the end it's not about doing the strong thing, but how well can you do it, how fast can you do it and how much chance do your opponents have to stop it.

[@edhdeckbuilding]

this is pretty much how i feel about it. i think you nailed it.

[@aaroncorsini6165]

When I play edh (even lower power to highly optimised but no cedh) I like to always play optimally. That is a big part of what is fun to me. Finding the best way to achieve my goals (while still not playing cards that I would rather have banned wich is only cradle at the moment) . That is usually my approach with deckbuilding as well. I'll have a goal and try to reach that as good as I can. So if my goal is to win with an absurd amount of tokens that deck becomes very good but includes no infinites while still winning with craterhoof 95% of the time. Thats why it is a stronger deck. If I build a lower power deck that mentality of having a goal and reaching it as effective as possible doesn't change for me. So the lower powerlevel stems from the fact that the goal has a very low ceiling. I'll play werewolf tribal and try to make it as powerfull as possible with lots of tutors but all I'm getting is an immerwolf so that my werewolfs aren't completely useless trash. I'll do the same when playing a game and it always annoys me when other people don't. I just can't stand it to win or lose because somebody didn't want to be mean or had poor threat assesment(e.g. acted out of spite). If I'm trying to win and there is the option to knock a player out of the game I usually do it. If I can destroy something thats bad for me I'll destroy it. I don't play mld but if I get the oppurtunity to ult liliana dreadhorde general I'll do it because I expect my opponents to do the same. If nobody tries to win or every body is just spinning their wheels I'd rather not play at all and just have a conversation. I don't like winning because another person held back and I don't want others to feel like I did thats why I also remind people if there is something scary on my board because I wouldn't want to win just because somebody didn't notice that I had earthcraft out wich that means I'll win if it doesn't get answered. The other thing I can't stand is if the pregame discussion failed and the decks are severly mismatched. And the last thing I'd like to touch on is that I hate it when players scoop. The only time where I think that it is fair is if you are locked out of the game completely, but in that case I'd just ask the table to kill me or if somebody is storming of or doing the narset thing while having a very small chance of not winning on that turn so if the game has basically ended and there is a miniscule chance of them not winning but to find that out one would have to wait for 45 minutes but I usually sit it out. Also don't take long if you don't have to nobody likes to wait for 45 minutes for their next turn.Maybe I should change my mind about that but I just can't right now. Thats what I have been doing for 12 years. Sorry thus has gotten really long

[@N3lchar]

I have a Baral deck, like 45ish cards are counter spells or counterspell effects. I know it’s hated, I didn’t build it for fun, I built it so I at least have a deck with a decent amount of stack interaction. It’s the same reason I have my Child of Alara boardwipe deck, so they’re all in a specific deck and not spread around making everyone’s like difficult

[@criscofields7242]

I had a mono white super stax deck that ran Cataclysm and I let the table know I was playing it and without doing anything, yet, I was "picked" on where I would cast something (Extraplanar Lens or Caged Sun) and then it was blown up. Game was horrible where it was just unplayable for me. It is hard to be up front when stuff like that happens. I also remembered after the fact that Cataclysm hit lands as well (reading the card, explains the card, haha). The deck was built around It That Betrays and had a lot of effects towards that sacrificing idea. To "beat" the stax effects I ran Brought Back and similar cards. With It That Betrays and Tragic Arrogance, Second Sunrise becomes "Let me get your stuff and then my stuff back from the graveyard." My personal strategy I hate is Counterspell the deck. A guy playing Azami was playing nearly every counterspell and good wizard with combo pieces. It was just horrible. He even had an answer for mono red Akroma which was nutty. Stall til you win. My Heidar deck did a similar thing but with tempo by bouncing anything and everything. Stall til I could pull out the win or just lock everyone out of the game. Not fun and boring for everyone.

[@robosamari8247]

One thing I don’t like is morph decks. It feels way to sneaky for me and whenever I do anything the opponent usually just flips over a card says “morph has priority” or something along the lines of that and and I’m left not being able to do anything

[@Mr_B_251]

I don't necessarily have a "strategy" that I dislike, but it's more of I dislike when there is a disparity at the table (one player gets completely locked out, one player snowballs and can't be stopped, etc) - I like games where everyone's deck and strategy has a chance to shine and win. If it feels like there's no way for one or more players to actually win based on deck archetype alone... those are the pods I'd rather not be in.

[@MrGeebee1983]

Great episode and I couldn’t agree more. I think casual is about hanging around with friends and have a laugh. What’s better then being surprised by cards you almost never see like a Kismet. If I have to point out a strategy I missed it’s sacrifice. I think I hate Dictate of Erebos the most.

[@zachdebernardo4842]

I don’t have a problem with any deck or strategy, BUT I do think that playing against a variety of decks and strategies is what keeps the game fun and interesting. If someone has only one deck and it’s something like mill or infect, it fundamentally changes how I have to play the game against them - which is ok once in awhile - but if it’s the only thing they play then it gets boring quickly.

[@digitalscribbler68]

There are so many EDH decks that cheat permanents into play that players who go all-in on counterspells are pretty much guaranteed to have some bad times. Talrand is loads of fun with cantrippy bounce and tap/untap spells, with a few theft spells and combos for taking over the game when ready. But relying on stack interactions puts a player at the mercy of some very common strategies.

[@KokNoker]

Wanna see a Talrand shit a brick in rage? Drop Citadel of Pain after they tapped out. The guy literally threw his deck across the room.

[@digitalscribbler68]

@@KokNoker I'm not sure which would irritate me more: Carpet of Flowers, or this card.

[@lilaang2115]

things like stax, chaos, and hug while I don’t play the second two, I think are still interesting because you have to figure out a way to make your deck perform under limiting circumstances.

[@Attivian]

People just hate playing Magic apparently. I love mill, mill all day every day. Self mill, don't care. My Golos Superfriend deck just won it's first game because I got milled by someone else.

[@cobaltdeleon]

War of the Spark Jace? If not, I'm curious how you won lmao

[@Attivian]

@@cobaltdeleon he milled me out enough that I was to hit Eerie Ultimatum and bring back the new Vorinclex, doubling season and all my win con planes walkers. The ultimates from Liliana from Spark had my opponents clear the board and Narset transcendent pretty much sealed it, everything else was just icing on the cake.

[@sonofhades57]

I ran a mill/steal hybrid until I gave it to one of my best friends. Good shit.

[@furrygarbage2757]

Mill is annoying because it's resource denial. The mill player won't win or even come close to it, but they will focus out one player. And for that player, they might as well have not played most of the time for all the impact they have.

[@chadstevens500]

I think it really differs among playgroups, I agree that eliminating a play style is ultimately futile. How they assess and approach the table is different, if someone plays a blood moon in their mono red deck because it makes sense, no problem with that, if someone plays a blood moon in a Ruric Thar, the Unbowed deck just to spite anyone with a more expensive mana base, then that’s when we have to hate the card and do our best not to hate the person. IMO a problem that should be easily solved just by talking, but a lot of us nerds just don’t talk lol

[@possiblypigeon]

My main hated strategy in commander is people playing decks in pods they obviously shouldn't be played in. In my opinion, Thrasios and Tymna should never be played at a casual table - at all. There is nothing fun or unique about those cards, they're cEDH commanders and thats that. There are many commanders like this, have a discussion before the game starts - simple as that. Play Stax in a playgroup that is happy to play against stax, play MLD in a playgroup that is happy to play against MLD. Play the game how you want to play it, but don't force your way of playing the game onto other people. Also, if you're playing a CEDH game but complaining about someone winning with Thassa's Oracle because it's "cheap" or "easy", don't play CEDH.

[@BDC39]

Exactly had a friend that constantly played Edgar Markov and nothing else. He couldn’t understand why we never wanted to play against it.

[@possiblypigeon]

@@BDC39 I always find that talking to your friend, explaining the kind of game you're looking for, and telling him what you want out of a play session, 100% helps

[@wobblefoot7607]

Amen man. My biggest pet peeve is people who take oviously powerful decks and blow people outta the pod. Nobody has fun w/ that

[@possiblypigeon]

@@wobblefoot7607 100%! I'm a cedh player, and i know for a FACT that if I played a cedh deck in a casual pod, I won't have a good time, let alone the rest of the players.

[@davidbakker263]

I think all this time in lockdown has really helped my perspective with these strategies. I’d be happy to be playing at all at this point.

[@Bargadiel]

I think that the spirit of EDH is that decks and strategies can be liquid, and change often. I had a zombie deck with the whole Mikaeus/Triskelion combo, did it in a game once, and took it out replacing it with some different themed cards for the deck. I feel like the whole point to it should be, even if it's a predictable deck, is "what kind of stuff is in that Scarab Lord deck this time", if the whole point is to have a good time with your playgroup.

[@s4ad0wpi]

"You didn't beat me by exactly attacking me through my creatures without removing them first? Fuck you!" ~Every damn Magic player, it feels like

[@cultoftyler9045]

yes, this is me, proudly

[@DR-pq6ki]

I think most (when on the receiving end) people loathe any of the strategies that turn their promised multiplayer game session into a single solitair game. Also includes the near solitair games that causes the in-game opponents into spectator role for most of their overall game time. Extra note towards the deck strategies that turn the opponent into the Mole provider in Wack a Mole (everything they play is negated, destroyed, tapped or exiled) also turning them essentially into a spectator. The last one is a bit more fun for both parties, thus less frowned upon. So a casual deck should avoid turning the opponents into spectators. A competitive deck should win (cheating is not allowed) or force opponents into laments, stalemates or draws. Bonus points if the deck-build gets a respected or feared reputation. Currently in the paper versions I dislike the tokenspam from landfall in the cardgame, with triggers requiring math that even the initiating player can loose track of. I favor kill strategies that win against all opponents on one turn (not to be confused with turn1-2 kill -though I like those too). As a result I tend to instantly become archenemy., As for casual games I like houserules that put timelimits on player revolve segment (extra turns are included in the segment receive no extratime) , and a houserule that resurrect ousted players after 3 turns back to a turn3 status (while ousted they still get 2 turns to play (out of play) without interference at their third turn they rejoin as open targets again) and multihead commander with two or more teams.

[@jimjohansson4897]

Who makes the tinder app but for commander? Where you match with people who enjoy a similar power level/gameplay and you can link up over spell table.

[@samdebacker2794]

I think that for my playgroup, it is not necessarily these strategies that people hate but the ubiquity of specific pieces that enable them. Torment of Hailfire and Craterhoof (like you mention) can illicit groans around the table just because that is THE archetypical way to win and not a very interesting or fun way at that. Does that mean green beaters or green go wide is a "hateable" strategy? What about black big mana? No certainly not. Of course games have to end and I see the point of these types of cards, but I think that there are so many other fresh and viable ways to close out games that regularly using the pushed spells can get stale or annoying.

[@hans.m.j]

i have a yosei deck and i love it! it isnt really a stax deck i only sac my yosei when someone is really ahead of the rest of the players to be on the good side of the other players but when im in the 1v1 it just locks down the opponent.

[@RazielNightfall]

I was anti land destruction until this past 2 years. Lands wins has taken over my meta so I started with select land destruction with 1-3 target destruction. Now I run urborg Tomb of yawgmoth plus bell in my mono white deck, and other color options in different decks.

[@lesgunsolus8668]

I had a Sigarda, Host of Herons Voltron deck and my playgroup did not enjoy it that much because she was hard to deal with once she came out, especially after some equipment is put on her. If anyone likes Voltron and has not had a Sigarda deck I highly suggest it. She alone helps cover a lot of the drawbacks Voltron decks have. Primarily sacrifice effects. As for the list of strategies I dislike I really only have an issue with Extra Turns, IF they are slow about it and are taking a bunch of turns in a row and after about 6+ they still have not won or at least killed anyone.

[@eliasbreaux105]

i like what you said, that grouphug decks help the best decks win faster. i think thats true... but my grouphug deck is always the best one on the table!

[@Icarus_789]

the strategy i dislike the most is stack/counter but will still play against. As long as the person playing stack/counters doesn't play that deck/strategy every match than its fine. I just think people need to run around 10 single target and 2-3 board wipes. Interaction with other players is important and if you have no interaction with the other players yeah your gunna have a bad time. When it comes to politics the big thing is everyone needs to chill and remember its a game and people will sometimes make poor decisions in the moment. It's a game, if you don't like something that your playgroup is doing talk about it and find a solution everyone likes. nice vid

[@DerpyLaron]

My only issue with many of thos strats is if there is no plan behind them, but same is true for any strat. If you ramp for 5 mins and then nothing happnes and next turn all you do with your ramp is ramp even more for 5 more mins, then fuck that I don't want to play that. Same goes for stax. Use stax that makes me think and make cool decisions. I love citadeal of pain for that. Do I take the damage to keep mana up for interaction? Do I bluff having interaction by keeping the mana up? Do I tap down all land because I have a different way to generate mana or free interaction? It gets my mind going and I love it. Then you got stax like Frozen Aether (or Kismet) which are doing that a bit, I got to restucture my play and consider my resources, but ultimatly it is just a new rule and no real ineraction happens as it is one sided. Edit: Also your Hullbreacher argument fails because we have Narset and Notion Thief. Which do what Hull Breacher does without being so generic and just giving you mana advantage for no good reason. I should have been 4 mana. Then I would have been cool with it, but it being 3 just makes a big difference when it can come out and what else you can do when holding it up.

[@sucker4alovestorey]

When I started I loved choas cards, and part of me still dose. but I work 70 hours a week and when theives auction eats up 1 out of 4 hours that i have to play each week...

[@BramLastname]

I don't play MTG, But the strategies I recognised, I have played in other card games, Hug and Discard can actually be quite fun in Yugioh and Duel Masters, Because in Yu-Gi-Oh card draw is really rare but grave effects are abundant, And in Duel Masters there's so many draw cards that deck out is a viable strategy, While discard can be outpaced by draw cards.

[@TheAngelRaven]

What I hate in Commander is games ending early. I hate decks that win the moment they get 2 Cards, their Urza out, or anything that can outright win or 'win'. When I say 'win' I mean 'They didn't just kill everyone or outright win, but the chance of them not winning is virtually 0'. I enjoy long games...

[@SomeBlackDude26]

In general, I would say most people dislike defensive strategies in games. Counter spell, destruction, tax, etc. Those slow games down and people in general favor offense over defense.

[@mborchik2007]

I love the perspective. I’ve had this similar thought for sometime now. People will complain about anything hahaha

[@madspyn8]

I'm currently building a Vial Smasher/ Krark deck with minigames stuff like risky move or measure of wickedness. I also use goad stuff like the Impetus or Kardur. Is this a chaos deck ? I put wrap world for testing somehow.

[@koens954]

I think ppl just need to be open about their deck when they sit at a table before starting to play. Not to tell their strats in details ofc, but if you bring a stax deck to a precon table it will not be fun for any of them. Maybe the other guys can swap their precons out for something that can deal with a certain strategy (and or power level) a little better and it might turn into a fun game. A turn 2 winterorb out of the blue really sucks if no1 has an answer to deal with it within a turn or 2.

[@andrewpeli9019]

Over the years, I built a stax deck and an extra turns deck... in both cases I got interested in a specific commander or commander pairing and while brewing it ended up falling into that archetype. I don't play either often because I know other people like fun. I'm a Timmy. I like doing Timmy things. I like seeing other decks do Timmy things. Players who are not Timmy's are going to be drawn to strategies that don't interest me and I'm going to dislike seeing those strategies, especially when they work well. I promise to try and have patience for Johnny and Spike as they play the way they have fun playing. But they need to also respect that other people like fun. I'll deny myself the Timmy satisfaction of griefing the table, if they make similar concessions for the sake of group fun.

[@Jimmythehead]

I’ve been loving my Shadrix hug deck since it lets me target who gets the hug and it’s usually whoever’s stuck on lands or cards meanwhile I’m overwhelming in my own card advantage and answers

[@sentientpaperclip874]

I play/played all of these but I build a strong deck then wind it down to a high 6 or low 7. And I also build an obvious weakness into each of my decks, an example I built a naya token deck that only has creatures with power 2 or less. I have played MTG for 20 years now I play whatever at whatever table and watch cards interact.

[@sentientpaperclip874]

Currently working on a hug with knife in hand deck 5-6 global mana increases everyone draws etc.Yurlok the scorch thrash i give you mana use it (i punish for using and not using the mana anyway) my play group has been having games go for 2+ hours so building it just to reduce time.

[@sentientpaperclip874]

I am also the person in my group that doesnt play mean but has all the mean cards and spreads them through the group...I like up hill battles(for I have threat assessment) i play commander for the political aspects.

[@rowankeltizar5961]

I live in a world where all strategies are valid. Multiplayer is a format where certain strategies hose others, depending on the draw of course, but hopefully someone has an answer. If not, shuffle and new game! I have aggro decks, I have a control, Voltron, reanimator, etc...

[@cameronlapp9306]

The common factor of this list tends to be a lack of interaction and stopping the player from doing what they want to do. Of course there are niche answers to each of these, but then you're crowding out the parts of your deck that you actually found fun to do.

[@nicholasford8878]

Sacrfice decks are pretty rough to play against since they clear the battlefeild alot and gain value and set everyone back at the same time

[@sonofhades57]

Story time! I was borrowing a friend's deck for an EDH tourney at a local card shop. The first guy I played was a mono-blue player who'd sunk SERIOUS money into his deck. Both games I played him he just sat there gently smiling while I couldn't do literally anything past turn 2 both games.

[@mitrimind1027]

I like going against mill decks when I'm playing Muldrotha. Ive even won a game with my Grenzo deck because someone milled my whole deck but I had junktroller just put the card I needed back in and I drew it and combo off.

[@johnnapier8830]

Funny enough with the group I played with, there wasnt much strategy involved. It was basically board wipes from every play besides me, restarting the duel about 10 times, then the first one to get his 11th board state won. I'm not joking or being sarcastic either. Out of the 4 or 5 of us, I seen about 6 board wipes constantly. Exiles, bounces, or just plain destruction. We would start a match at about 8pm, that one match go until about 12, maybe 1am, which is the normal time for a edh match I suppose, but at 1 am, with nothing on your board, one guy having some tokens and winning because you cant do anything unless you're in a ramp deck, it sucks lmao

[@SilverAlex92]

After over a decade of magic I just don't mind any strategy or game plan. What I reaaaaaally dislike is a huge imbalance in the power level of the decks. I dont mind someone staxing out the table, or pulling infinite combos, or chaos, or whatever, but if the table is playing jank and someone brings their cedh deck, that's a dick move. Btw I dont have anything against CEDH either, I actually love the format and had my own copetitive karador deck. My issue is when I sit on a table, ask whats the powerlevel people expect to play, someone says "ohh you know, average, we're playing for fun", and I pick my jank deck only to get destroyed by high power level decks. Just tell me we're playing CEDH lite and I can bring a deck with the right powerlevel. Btw related to this theme: The biggest reason I love CEDH is that the player base is super chill. You can stax the table, or pull turn 3 infinite combos, or counter everything and NO ONE will be salty, because not only they are expecting to face those kinds of things, but actually pack answers, and the games become super interactive. However, if you are playing your jank angel deck that only win by turning creatures sideway and get staxed to death when you didn't expect that kind of game, its a bit shitty. So I think what really matters is knowing what the table expects to play, and bring a deck according to that expectation.

[@guibreve1733]

Gotta ask tho... Nekuzar, making everyone draw like crazy for dealing damage... would that be considered hug?

[@DesArthes]

Problem with hullbreacher is that he is pretty often followed by Wheel effect. I think Narset is great borderline for this effect (still you can draw 1 card in opponents turn, controller didnt gain any bonus from that and PW is more easily removable). Rather go play Spirit of the labyrinth.

[@perinthia6829]

I firmly believe that anything that prevents people from playing magic is not casual, any form of mass LD, mass counter spell, alot of extra turns, or even hard staxs, and wont play with people in a casual game running those types of decks, but everything is still good in moderation every deck should have some form of TARGETED land destruction but not mass, if your blue you should be running a few counters in your deck, and an extra turn here or there isnt to bad, and neither is small taxing effects, the thing is most people shuffle up to play magic, they want to cast their spells and have a good time, iv yet to meet people who find it fun when every spell they cast costs 5 more or when someone destroys all lands so nothing else can be cast or just counter every spell that comes out and just takes 3-4 extra turns in a game That being said you can always run what you find enjoyable but always tell your playgroup what you intend to play before hand so they can either find a new group for that game or change their deck to better suit it

[@Late_Night_Mega]

I don't mind extra turns, as long as there's only a few of those in the deck, and it isn't something that's just going to go almost infinite with extra turns. Solitaire type decks where you start taking 20+ minute turns starting on turn 5 or something where you either slowly kill everyone, or spend all that time essentially doing nothing. Not a big fan of infinite combos, as to me it's just a sudden end to a game and pretty anti-climactic when it just comes out of no where because someone has both Kiki-Jiki and Deceiver Exarch. Out of my 70+ decks, I do have about 3-4 that have infinite combo potential, but it's not really the only win con, and they aren't like the typical ones you see in constructed tournaments of other formats. Stax is another thing I don't have. I don't mind things that slow down the players, like Kismet or Blind Obedience, but cards like Winter Orb or Stasis that turn the game into everyone just sitting there doing nothing is a no no for me. Me and my friends gathered to play the game, not just sit there and do nothing from turn 3-4 onward. I don't mind if one of my friends plays a deck that has Warp World, or just a couple chaos cards like that, but I'd never put Warp World in one of my decks. I recall seeing a game at a LGS years ago, where someone played a Warp World in a 4 player commander game, and they spent literally a half hour just resolving it because there were so many permanents on the battlefield and so many etb effects.

[@dennisyoung6122]

MLD really needs to show up more. Nothing else out there really counters the mass-ramp decks that can have 10+ lands out when you only have 4.

[@Sir_Ardwin]

Idk like at my lgs most things are okay and people will straight up tell you if the deck Is really good or it's X deck should I play it? And in my opinion it all depends on table if everyone brought budget decks and someone shows up with a superfriends that will stomp everyone that's not fun it's just play group.

[@MusicalBoarder]

When i play chais i typically don't do anything like scrambleverse that makes everyone randomize everything they have with each other player. It takes too long, and i dont want anyone mixing up cards and potentially losing them. I will however play mind's desire and possibility storm and warp world. Its random, but everyone is on the same level mostly :p And in terms of stuff i dont like playing against, i'm not a fan of strategy i find to be not a really skillful strategy. Craterhoof and triumph of the hoards for example, or just infinite combos.

[@Kaisingsens]

I play possibility storm in my krark/sakashima storm deck, because wih krark(s) out i break parity and can storm through possibility storm and with that my playgroup is fine