Commander's 4 Newest BANS Explained

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[@alexandermeyer7258]

Dang, RIP to all the collectors who went out and spent 100s of dollars on those fancy jeweled lotus treatments...

[@PsychoDiesel48]

Bruh. I pulled my full art lotus from my magic con collector boosters last week. FUCK! XD

[@theFuss14]

Just bought a mana crypt

[@galaxyguy9873]

boohoo?

[@theFuss14]

@galaxyguy9873 a little bit, took awhile to save up for that card. The bans are probably best for the format. It sucks banning chase cards. Local stores are also going to take a loss.

[@tdot8280]

Thats the reason why i dont collect modern crap :D Premodern ftw

[@zeroisnine]

People who didn't spend $100s of dollars on these cards: Yay! People who did spend $100s of dollars on these cards: 😢😢😢

[@simonteesdale9752]

I mean I own a Crypt, and good riddance.

[@Geblino]

I didn't spend money on any of these cards, and I still think it's dumb. I have a friend in my pod that has dockside, it's really not that annoying... I don't really get the crying over that card, there's more annoying cards out there. And I've never come across the other cards in play. Nobody is playing mana crypt in a casual play group. And if you're running that, everyone is probably aware and running similar power level decks so who cares. I just think it's weird for somebody to decide nobody is allowed to use fast mana even as a person who doesn't use it themselves. Let the players decide what's acceptable in their pods. Weird that they're forcing everyone to play slow. also, if the argument is to help new players. Idk how many new players are facing dockside, jeweled lotus, and mana crypt in their games. If they are, that's entirely on their pod IMO and not on the RC to stop.

[@Arctanis-vt3hl]

That's always the cost of having anything though. If you put to much stake in the value of your cards your risk a banning or new strategy coming out that tanks the value of your cards. I'm happy about the bannings even though I own a dockside.

[@brianpendleton2674]

Didn't spend tons of money These shouldn't be banned except dockside in cedh.

[@tuctaboombenson156]

​@Geblino The reason why I and many others are upset about the artifacts and dockside is because of competitive. Dockside was a staple in many, many decks. Kobold as a deck is canned. Basically any red deck without blue: canned. It's really upsetting to my community and disappointing.

[@Radjammin]

Banning Jeweled Lotus and Mana Crypt after Hasbro stuffed them in recent sets is a big FU to Hasbro.

[@jonfeltham4726]

I think it's a bigger fu to the people who spent money on these products. Oh well

[@corsel6911]

Especially in a set called Commander Masters

[@sneakerstalkerz3183]

@@jonfeltham4726I second this. I spent 125 on the jeweled lotus etched and now it’s worhtless

[@DarthLukee]

Hasbro don't control the EDH rules committee, it's a third party. They have representation but don't call the shots

[@tarekt8427]

no its a big FU to all the ppl that chased those cards.

[@FalseReindeer]

I feel sad for one of my friends. They bought a foil Jeweled lotus not too long ago and I'm pretty sure he is broken inside now

[@Lv5SuperTuba]

I just lost thousands of dollars today womp womp edit: I don't need financial advice imma be ok

[@rocknrolla7288]

DONT BANK ON CARDBOARD HAVING ETERNAL VALUE. No matter how you look at it, spending hundreds on magic and expecting it to hold value is foolish. Buy stocks, gold or whatever.

[@gregory3499]

Keep,playing with them. Rules committee holds no weight or authority.

[@kxasnbmadara]

@@Lv5SuperTuba facts

[@Videoman007100]

​@@gregory3499 my thoughts exactly

[@narkfly]

They banned Mana Crypt because all the King Luke shorts were just too iconic. That's the only reason that makes any sense.

[@ultrakombou]

Who is king luke ?

[@Hashbrown1682]

Shoreeetttt That's a good point

[@dynesaurus8264]

So jeweled lotus caught the bullet for "Good potential commander but what if ward 2"

[@The_Grimsun]

yeah crazy almost like the real problem is ward not the jeweled lotus.

[@DOLOTread]

No to mention lotho kills ward so wtf are they really looking for anymore

[@dashkataey1740]

Of all the cards banned, I feel Jeweled Lotus was the one they shouldn't have done. Yes, it's powerful, but no where near as powerful as the other three cards.

[@benmeaige4306]

@@dashkataey1740 it’s only powerful on turn 1-3 so less than 10% of games. And it usually puts a target on your back and the game evens out. Unnecessary in my opinion.

[@dashkataey1740]

@@benmeaige4306 agreed. It’s why I said it shouldn’t have been banned

[@alexfrost4909]

It's the showrunner of the original commander set. Banning it in commander is a slap in the face to every commander player.

[@bobthor9647]

It buffs your Commander in a format called Commander . It’s only legal in Commander . It was the flagship card for multiple sets , it’s unbelievable

[@themoops4006]

@@bobthor9647 literally who cares? it was bad for the format.

[@jinx8279]

Perfect timing. Finally opened my Commander Masters collector booster from Festival in a Box. Pulled a foil full art Jeweled Lotus...

[@paracat4893]

My condolences

[@ivonneiglesias2596]

In years.....maybe unbanned It......maybe

[@walterisatwork]

Play it anyway. The RC shouldn't dictate how you have fun.

[@majormeatwad7838]

I just pulled a full art foil one from mine yesterday! haha, what a bunch of shit...

[@suesswasserpirat2408]

Play it anyway dude, fu Hasbro!

[@mattiavenier3898]

Sol Ring didnt get banned as its so "iconic" , not because Wotc needs to sell every precon out in the wild

[@RG-wv3gt]

I agree with the bans but that part was silly

[@ryanhebertson7457]

I don’t think people are buying precon for the sol ring

[@RG-wv3gt]

@@ryanhebertson7457 I wish it were banned but it is tough to say that when nearly all the precons newbies buy, including duskmourn, include it.

[@DuxBellorum13]

It's also hard to justifying banning a card that is already in the NEXT set of precons that is likely already in production.

[@SpellSlinger98]

Dockside was in a precon, so that part of the argument is invalid

[@wchenful]

As a cEDH player, I'm kinda 50/50 on this set of bans. The dockside ban has the highest impact on the cEDH format by far. Sans-blue red decks (Dargo, Godo, Rocco etc.) are taking the heaviest hit and they were already underdogs in the format. This is very likely to drastically reduce format diversity with a big chunk of commanders losing a lot of viability. On the other hand, the Nadu ban was probably a net positive. The deck was definitely strong - not oppressively so, but it ate up too much time and caused a lot of tournament games end in draws. As for Mana Crypt and Jeweled Lotus, they won't have a huge effect on the format (just reduces the probability of a super explosive start but they were relatively rare anyway). My condolences to all the people who invested money into these cards. Although maybe it'll be a good opportunity to pick them up cheap before cEDH players set up their own banlist and committee.

[@alexfrost4909]

Yep just makes Blue more powerful, mana crypt, jeweled lotus and dockside just helped non blue catch up.

[@Supremo801]

As a casual edh player, losing dockside is still a kick in the teeth. Its the best ramp i can get in mono red

[@wchenful]

@@Supremo801 In casual you should be fine 😂 You still have Sol Ring, Jeska's Will, Urza's Saga for Sol Ring, Mana Geyser, Underworld Breach for the rituals etc. (most of these are already borderline too competitive anyway hehe)

[@Insharai]

Not me running over the card prices with this expectation xD It's so weird not to have rhystic on this type of banwave lol. I think mono white gets the heaviest hit no?

[@galaxyguy9873]

Very well thought out comment cedh definitely needs its own ban list. And yeah I could see that especially with them Banning dual Lotus where else are you supposed to play that card except for edh?

[@phatkaveh60]

A) who cares what the committee thinks should be banned a casual format. Their opinion means nothing. B) I’m never in my life spending money on expensive cards again and just proxying everything going forward

[@questionyourself718]

So did already play before this with cards from the Banlist? Or did you get this Opinion the Moment they banned these 4 Cards?

[@AlphaBetta55]

I feel like this is a borderline legal issue with Jeweled Lotus. WOTC shouldn't be allowed to create chase cards to sell sets that are only playable in one format (I know they are legal in vintage and legacy but you're never going to use them without a commander) and then ban them a year later. I understand it's the rules committee decision but I don't think cards should be printed if banning them in one format makes them effectively unplayable. Opening a pack with a Jeweled Lotus now is basically getting one less card in your pack.

[@RG-wv3gt]

I don't think they make any guarantees as to worth of cards

[@BDtetra]

i mean this happens very often in card games in general and has been happening in MtG forever. Skullclamp was instantly banned, Lurrus was very expensive before it was banned in every single format (including legacy and vintage), Oko and Uro both banned in standard pretty quickly, This concept is not new at all and these are worse examples since WotC actually made this cards and banned themselves. Remember Nexus of Fate and how bad issues with that card was due to it being promo only? I own a mana crypt and I don't think this is an issue at all, and it actually shows that the committee is an somewhat individual entity that is not afraid to ban cards just because they are staples.

[@michaelpierson7653]

Easy explication to why stuff is being banned now and not before: Sheldon is gone.

[@Rofellos89]

I understand the reasons for the bans, but after years of inaction this has caught a lot of people off guard. Why now? What has happened to warrant the bans at this particular time? Dockside has been around for years as has jeweled lotus. Jeweled lotus is essentially a commander only card. You can’t sit on your hands for years and expect people to not end up upset when you finally do something

[@heecks9375]

I think Nadu, Winged Wisdom was the card that started it

[@darko-hexar]

Wizards selling Festival in a box with collector packs of Commander Masters and LCI, where the biggest hits are Jeweled Lotus and Mana Crypt: LOOK AT THESE NICE PACKS EVERYONE Commander RC: I'm about to end this man's whole career

[@henrytorr5810]

Why should the rules committee consider the product viability and price of cards in a format where they are solely trying to cultivate what most players agree is the most fun way to play???

[@DangerKennyB]

@@henrytorr5810 Because people buying packs makes Wizards money. People buying singles makes card stores money. Things get banned, people lose confidence in doing either of those things. At some point, WotC has to take a hard look at this external entity handling what is their premiere format now and ask if it isn't time for a change.

[@MutilatedBunny]

​@henrytorr5810 they already did by not banning sol ring. Very aware they can't invalidate every precon made.

[@henrytorr5810]

@@MutilatedBunny the reason they didn’t ban sol ring is very inconsistent with their other stuff and is very stupid, the only thing that I really dislike about this post

[@darko-hexar]

@@henrytorr5810 I just think it's kinda stupid timing to ban all of those at once now, instead of, y'know... any other time they've been legal for the past 4, 5 or 20+ years? I do agree that expensive pieces like these are a large entry cost into higher power decks, and that since the RC can't just lift a finger and get them printed into the ground, banning them is probably healthiest for the format. I'm just clearly not alone in saying that, factually, this was the most impactful ban in the history of the format when it comes to expensive cards, and it's kind of a dumb move to ban all three at once (Nadu, could care less about, but it certainly didn't get much of a chance to spread its wings in EDH). The monetary side of the cards isn't the focus of the RC but every single member knew these cards' values and had to at least predict the storm of backlash that'd come after. At the end of the day, it's just funny.

[@maxrichard2244]

So a large part of Nadu's ban in constructed was due to the original design being changed with Commander in mind....only to be banned in Commander 😂

[@jeffreylong1478]

The designer admitted that it was a huge oversight not to think of 0 equip cost artifacts though.

[@glacen]

Rule Committee "People should be able to police themselves and rule 0 out any problematic cards". Also rules committee "How about we ban two random pieces of fast mana and leave the rest up. Oh the one ring, underworld breach and lions eye? Nah they're good."

[@simonteesdale9752]

Yeah, but the Rules committee bans cards that are actively causing problems in casual play. People don't tend to put breach/LED loops in casual decks.

[@dawubber6676]

I see bans as necessary for strangers playing at LGS's or online. They're not for established playgroups.

[@darkmosuniverse3955]

@@simonteesdale9752 A re jeweled lotus and mana crypt in casual play though? I only see them in high power and up usually

[@RG-wv3gt]

Yeah if everyone in your playgroup is running these, I gotta imagine you'll rule 0 them back in

[@imaqt3.14]

I mean what changes? RC still recommends to do whatever you want within your play group

[@thas4250]

This is definitely what pushes cedh to have its own banlist

[@JohnAutopsy]

@@thas4250 I sure hope so. Playing green now feels extremely necessary if you want to have consistent mana acceleration

[@johne7850]

I hope so as well.

[@cjballa9681]

Well in my community we've all already agreed to not abide by this band list. Since we all disagree

[@brianpendleton2674]

100% concur

[@alexfrost4909]

1000% We don't play these cards normally but it's a slap in the face to lose 400 in value like this.

[@elladan23]

WHat if one person agree with it? How did your community get to that conclusion a couple of hours after it was made.

[@brianpendleton2674]

@@elladan23 Why would anyone agree with it for a private play group?

[@Vernonnn]

This video isn't about a band list

[@BigDeckEnergy.]

Banning a card after you used it to sell a popular set is absurd. Bannings like this, make me fear being a collector and a player myself. I’ve spent a lot of money on some pieces of cardboard to play in my playgroup and now $100 card of mine is worth nothing because I can’t play with it. And this was done by the rules committee not Hasbro themselves. I’m about to rule zero the rules committee in our playgroup.

[@henrytorr5810]

Why should the rules committee consider the product viability and price of cards in a format where they are solely trying to cultivate what most players agree is the most fun way to play??? You don’t have to go along with their bans, and they even explicitly encourage you to discuss with your playgroup what you think are the most fun ways to play the game, and then just play it like that.

[@themoops4006]

good you should fear being a collector if you're collecting with the sole intent to make money on your collection. these aren't baseball cards, magic is a game and the game comes first not the financial value of individual cards you could have proxied if you didn't want to spend all that money but your playgroup still wanted to run the cards.

[@gonz22]

lol it’s not worth nothing, still selling on tcg player for 36-42 dollars

[@warl54961]

you should play with proxies

[@BARadiantDawn]

How about banning a couple cards that were used to sell a secret lair like the festival in a box..? Lol

[@Melagrath_Ren]

I think personally the banning feels bad for lotus and crypt because somehow the one ring still exists despite it also deserving a ban for the same reasons as jeweled lotus imo

[@fixo5132]

One ring is a problem in modern. In commander it’s good but not at all problematic.

[@charliemarlow647]

I might just be in an oblivious bubble, but I've never had bad experiences with any of these cards. People know how strong they are and only bring them to suitable tables. Its a fundamental part of the format to have a rule 0 conversation to match power level as well as you can. Banning these cards just nerfs cEDH, high power EDH and some random janky decks that need a Crypt for thematic reasons.

[@dhantefranklin336]

?????? Definitely an oblivious bubble, friend. I was gonna type a long response, but i genuinely don't know what commander games you're playing that these cards didn't immediately springboard a player into a highly favorable or even a winning position.

[@Arctanis-vt3hl]

I doesn't nerf them, it just makes play more competitive and interesting. You get a Crypt and you're probably going to win, so you didn't win because of skill, you won because you got a great opening hand.

[@brianpendleton2674]

Same! Crypt isn't even a guaranteed win, same as sol ring. Often brings more targeted attacks. Cedh maybe could use the shake up but... this is bad all around right now.

[@brianpendleton2674]

​@@dhantefranklin336favorable or winning yes... so you use your targeted removal and stop them, kill them, or shuffle up and play again!!

[@RG-wv3gt]

I run into these (especially crypt and DE) in stores all the time. Rule 0 can go both ways. I def prefer a random having to ask if they can add mana crypt versus having to ask them to take it out (if they have something to sub)

[@dakotamcintire7419]

I realize that the rules committee has made a decision, but given that it's a stupid f*cking decision I've elected to ignore it.

[@RG-wv3gt]

That's what rule 0 is for

[@henryjones8636]

Excellent reference

[@simonaube8042]

Perfection

[@burningpapersun1]

Imagine buying a mana crypt yesterday and now it's under 74 bucks. These bans were kind of dumb.

[@felixgeorgi4482]

Sold my dockside like 4 month ago for about 70 euro if i remeber correctly. Now about 18 Euro on cardmarket, maybe drops further Im going to buy all these newly banned cards and we play rule 0 xD I think these bans were completly useless. Mostly effects only CEDH (besides collectors) or how many casual players are playing these expensive cards.

[@Vernonnn]

I didn't know RC and mtgfinance were the same thing....wtf point are you trying to make?

[@burningpapersun1]

@Vernonnn I don't take part in mtg finance? I'm just showing how much a card has already crashed post ban. I don't even own these cards myself but it still sucks to ban all of these cards.

[@Did_No_Wrong]

For people wondering, Wizards has just confirmed that Sol Ring will never be banned since its solely a Commander exclusive and staple

[@TheForeverRanger]

It is also included in every precon. If Jeweled Lotus was treated the same way I think it would be treated the same way.

[@patrickwoodlands4086]

The fact they banned these cards and not Thoracle is an absolute joke.

[@crawdaddy2004]

Enablers, not win conditions. I’m not arguing in favor or against any of these bans, I’m just explaining the rationale. There will always be a best win condition. The cards banned here allow you to win easier or faster.

[@patrickwoodlands4086]

@@crawdaddy2004 so if you’re not banning win conditions then ban enablers like demonic consultation. Absolutely stupid play pattern.

[@henrytorr5810]

@@patrickwoodlands4086demonic consultation is part of the same win condition, it’s a shitty card if you’re not doing the combo

[@alexfrost4909]

Thassas is every blue win condition. All this does is remove non blue cedh from competing. No more winota, so red white is demolished. Thassa should be the first ban

[@themoops4006]

@@patrickwoodlands4086 thassa's oracle does not do any of the things they banned these cards for doing. it does not create immediate non-games by skipping one player ahead several turns, its a win condition that's only problematic in cedh. and i agree demonic consultation is what should go if either were to be banned, thassa's oracle is a fair enough card on its own.

[@richardthomas7925]

Cedh needs its own RC

[@thegreenmoon8823]

I can see the argument for that but it would just get confusing, what needs to be done is people just need to talk

[@gabrielharvey956]

And im gonna laught even harder when they will make their own list and confirm theses card were never ok in casual

[@breakingtide]

@@thegreenmoon8823 more confusing than the different ban lists for different formats already?

[@sir_quirkus7206]

@@thegreenmoon8823I hate when people say it’ll get confusing lol no it doesn’t. Mtg is a confusing game yet people play it and play it well don’t devalue our intelligence with the “confusing” argument

[@brianpendleton2674]

Exactly. Or same RC different list

[@bobthor9647]

The Rules Committee sold their cards to Card Kingdom before they announced this - smart

[@RG-wv3gt]

That'd be so shitty but then people are shitty I guess

[@VexylObby]

Do we have a source for this?

[@ImmortalLorient]

@@VexylObby Nope, people saw the sale numbers and made a conspiracy theory.

[@Lemon_Sage9999]

​@@VexylObby It was revealed to me in a dream. Outside of jokes, it's a very VERY actionable hunch.

[@floofyproofy9374]

Isn’t that just insider trading with a sharpie mustached onto it?

[@fr3ddiefir3ball49]

"We don't want to micromanage the format"- rc like 2 weeks ago....

[@windstar120025]

Im not sure how this can be called "Micromanaging"

[@fr3ddiefir3ball49]

@@windstar120025 my wording isn't perfect but if you can't get the context not my fault. A member of the rc tweeted(just weeks ago) we won't ban stuff for Yada Yada reasons. I'm ok w the bans but why go back on what was said?

[@maz4849]

I have sat here and read so many comments on this video that I have to throw in my own take on this. I swear that the Magic community cries more than any other TCG. I absolutely agree that a lot of WOTC's decisions over the last couple of years have had many, many repercussions to their image as well as to the player base, but bans in TCG's are a common place - regardless if they have "casual" formats. As someone who bought the 2019 precon and unknowingly getting Dockside from it and then also pulling another dockside in a Double Masters box, yes, I am a bit devastated that my two cards that roughly go for $100 CAD EACH are about to go crashing down in value. But I have swapped them around into different decks and I can confidently say that in any game where I played Dockside, it was almost inevitable that I would win the game off of it. 2 mana + Snowball so hard to win the game even in the face of some interaction (unless DE is countered) = Should be banned/restricted. If I had the other 3 cards, I would say the same sentiment. Obviously investing heavily in very powerful cards in a card game and then them getting banned much later down the line is a hard feels bad to anyone affected and Wizards giving us products that heavily banked on these cards being chase cards is pretty twisted and just makes these bans harder to swallow. As many have argued about in the comments, Commander is extremely free-form. You can easily utilize Rule 0 and plan decks and sessions with people in accordance with everyone. I personally believe if you legitimately own the card, you have a right to play it UNLESS it negatively impacts any or all tables you sit down and play. To me, these bans are exactly that and I think the abundance of people online constantly making Commander skits or shorts that feature these cards being absurd and stupid to play against (even if you yourself run them) only highlights the problems they bring into the game. I will say though that banning Jeweled Lotus is pretty brutal considering it's ability can only be used in that format. AND as someone who has been teaching a D&D group that usually consists of 5-6 people, teaching 4-5 new players all at the same time and trying to explain "Power Levels" in Commander is a nightmare. My friend loves Halo and found a deck that put Halo art and names on legal cards and printed it out to play it. What he didn't know, is the guy was trying to be a Voltron competitive sweat and added fast mana like Crypt and Ancient Tomb (which should also be banned IMO) and constantly had cards that were well over $50 USD each. SO now when he plays it, we're put in a garbage scenario where everyone has to be on red alert when he does ANYTHING and we start to get salty when he just slaps down 3 broken cards on like, turn 3 or 4 and too many players are too new to really stop him. They've gotten better for sure and everyone has to slowly learn from somewhere, but cards like Mana Crypt expedited this issue to the point where people just wanted to print out cool Commander decks that end up having busted cards that cause an arms race at the table. The Rules Committee telling players from the start that these cards should not be played under normal rules better guides newer players into better experiences or learning environments and allows experienced players that understand these cards and the effect that have in decks to decide within their playgroups to reintroduce the card. TLDR: I think these bans are great for the game's overall health, allows for a better foundation for Rule 0 discussions, rough for investors, and hopefully helps prevent newer players from starting an arms race of investing/printing absurdly broken cards the moment they start entering deckbuilding and understanding the power in cards. Oh, and to the commenters who come in here and start crying over bans left and right and start spouting idiotic responses like, "ban rampant growth, three visits," "they need to ban smothering tithe and rhystic study," and "they should ban tutors" should just sell all of their decks right now and only build decks that have nothing but lands and vanilla creatures. Like, grow up.

[@nigelgilbert223]

Big agree. How hard is it to talk to people to match up with a pod that's playing the appropriate power level? If one can't handle socializing in the social format, maybe one ought to play Pauper or something else. Rule 0 is literally the rules of the game.

[@ccctonelarone]

time for wizards to print jeweled eye's diamond

[@luiken3]

Crypt's-Eye Lotus.

[@ShyLoo1994]

No kidding. If players stay after this they will know they can print broken cards in sets just to sell their trash product and then ban it 3 months later. Fuck WoTC and Hasbro

[@mrcury7260]

Moxside Extortionist

[@fahrenheittcg6020]

You say that three months is such a short amount of time for Nadu to be banned, when the truth is that the first game ever played with Nadu just finished and they thought it rude to ban the card while the game was still in progress!

[@Insharai]

facts xD

[@40Kfrog]

I bought Dockside in the precon it came with. At the time, it was only $20 on the secondary market, and one of the playgroup at my LGS thought it was overhyped and wouldn't stay there. That feeling of "I made the right call" on picking up a card is one of the more unique aspects of this hobby. I'm sad to see my copy of Dockside leave my decks, but I guess "it was so good we had to ban it" is the ultimate "you made the right call" 😁

[@brianpendleton2674]

Just play it anyways? Rule zero and friend pods shouldn't care

[@TheFremontTroll07]

@@brianpendleton2674 i agree, a ban list being a thing in commander is so ironic that its just stupid.

[@harmoniousrex]

Honestly at the rate you got it- and as long as you would have had it for- this is an objectively positive story

[@t.yop9]

Dockside is the only fair ban. But it should have happened 2 years ago. Not now when it's staple and people have bought heavily into it.

[@darkmatter32x]

I'm broken. I have the Crypt Masterpiece and Jeweled Lotus foil. Imma cry now.

[@Vernonnn]

I have 3 of the crypt masterpieces but I'd rather just take them out, I've kept so many bad hands because of them.

[@MrJayDahmer]

RIP jeweled lotus

[@walterisatwork]

Don't stop playing your cards just because someone else decides to dictate how you have fun in a casual format.

[@brianpendleton2674]

This, 100%

[@Courtney-Jai]

I don't think people are bother about playing them everyone will have will allow them depending on your play table I think it's more that about £300-400 and are now worth less then £75 combined

[@Dioliolio]

Maybe these cards don’t belong in a casual format. Ever thought about that?

[@brianpendleton2674]

@@Dioliolio I did. It was incorrect, I moved on.

[@jaredwonnacott9732]

Yes, play banned cards if your playgroup is okay with it, but remember, okay with it doesn't mean you sit down and say, "you're fine with me running a Mana Crypt, right?" and then shuffling up without a discussion. Most people would rather you didn't play it, but most people also don't want to be the one to say so. I view the ban list as this arbitrary bad guy that tells people they can't play cards so that I can focus on just having fun and being sociable. When players force me to be the bad guy even after the Rules Committee already did so, it's really uncomfortable. Be really careful to not blindly ignore the feelings of those that might be breathing a sigh of relief because now their friends won't be playing these cards that really were bothering them.

[@lordBeerus467]

Game play wise sure but the value loss is huge. Having them as chase cards in recent sets is garbage.

[@henrytorr5810]

Why should the rules committee consider the product viability and price of cards in a format where they are solely trying to cultivate what most players agree is the most fun way to play???

[@ReasonableLee7154]

Cards like Nadu are a prime example of the hand holdy nature in contemporary MTG. The card's only downsides are that it's not free, and it's not an Emblem in your CZ. Cards not having drawbacks while also having egregious resource generation eliminates any legitimate strategic element the game would otherwise have.

[@hobez64]

Im honestly fine with this change. Theres stinging pains because I have each of these cards (except the damn bird) but I feel this will make a healthier format overall. I am pouring one out for the cEDH players. After the nuke drops I hope they can recover and I'm interested to see what happens next

[@xRxTGRxRx]

Feeling exactly this comment

[@bobthor9647]

I’m not as happy about Wasting $700 because Rachel Weeks and Josh and Olivia think these cards are too good

[@primalx7975]

I'm just sad for my nekusar deck lost Dockside that helped me accelerate its game plan

[@JD-gk7eh]

In competitive formats, you adapt. cEDH players should theoretically be the least upset as they can and should be able to adapt, especially since what they lost are not whole decks but fast mana pieces that simply enable broken starts. If you're only there to win games in blowouts because you drew the most fast mana, you're not much of a competitor.

[@JohnnyYeTaecanUktena]

@@bobthor9647 do like the rest of the cEDH players do and just proxy your damn cards

[@DragmireXI]

The irony of this as I was picking apart a few of my decks to pull cards out to make a Nadu deck, now I've got a handful of partially deconstructed decks and no Nadu deck

[@kevinfelixclausell5244]

Lmao why did you think making a Nadu deck was a good idea in the first place😂

[@Vladj85]

Well deserved for playing nadu

[@mufasafalldown8401]

Everyone saw the Nadu ban coming miles away why would you build Nadu? Not to mention the obscene power and obnoxious play pattern of the card.

[@DragmireXI]

@@mufasafalldown8401 I'm just a "kitchen table" magic player, I don't follow anything really. We adhere to any bans, but I don't really keep up with the news. I also already had Nadu from a trade so I didn't buy any cards; I just had Nadu laying around and the cards to support a deck and was seeing what I could put together.

[@RG-wv3gt]

As someone who has dealt with a lot of people in stores who during rule 0 say they only have decks with mana crypt, im glad this reverses the burden. Groups can rule 0 powerful cards in just like they can rule 0 them out. Your playgroup can keep them! Edit: i do feel bad for people who spent $$$ on these, i had a friend who bought pdox engine the week before it was banned

[@qwormuli77]

IMHO It's so much easier to rule 0 cards in than it is to get them out that it's insane.

[@RG-wv3gt]

​@@qwormuli77yeah it's not super practical

[@DangerKennyB]

@@qwormuli77 It's the reverse for me. My friends are down for whatever, but randoms at stores take the banlist for gospel and do not entertain rule 0'ing stuff back in.

[@RG-wv3gt]

​@@qwormuli77it's not very practical, especially when the person wants to run them

[@carterharris334]

The One Ring deserves to be banned more so than jeweled Lotus or Mana Crypt. I say this because of how hard the One Ring is to get rid of.

[@sunflowertheog]

TOR and dockside are the 2 cards i would've love to have seen gone. doesn't feel like they're done banning with this philosophy tbh, especially mentioning "banning these cards makes the format less homogenous" - i can only feel the reaper floating towards one ring's door

[@-HASH]

I 100% agree with both of you. Plus they just based Commander Masters on Jeweled Lotus.

[@patrickweiss5063]

I also 100% agree. TOR needs to go if these other cards are going.

[@ProfWalton]

The One Ring is going to be reprinted in Marvel (my guess). They want to make their money off of it first.

[@dullestpenguin4151]

The One Ring not being banned in any formats makes me suspect WotC won't or can't ban it.

[@bhuzz1944]

Wiping thousands off of peoples collections smh… Wonder if RC members cashed out on insider info…

[@thefacebehindthemask7007]

Of course they did

[@Arctanis-vt3hl]

You don't have to sell, and that's the risk in buying cards. Just buy what you need.

[@bobthor9647]

The Command Zone will continue to pretend like they arnt the Rules Committee

[@pokemontvunlimited7246]

Of course they did

[@alexfrost4909]

​​@@Arctanis-vt3hlyeah just buy 100 dollar cards or 400 boxes to get the chase card then lose all that money for nothing. Yes this will hit wotc bottom line as I spend 400 a month to feed the fam all the cards including the commons and uncommon for fun building but never again

[@nigelgilbert223]

"I hate rule 0, rule 0 doesn't work". Rule 0 is literally the rules of the game. Maybe try Pauper if you're too socially unskilled to socialize in the social format?

[@DangerKennyB]

Amen

[@cw5948]

The ban list is literally part of the rules of the game too 😂

[@RG-wv3gt]

Yeah all the people crying about not wanting to rule 0 these back in is silly

[@DangerKennyB]

@@RG-wv3gt What? I'm not sure how there could be more of a dense take. Rule 0 is about otherwise legal cards. Always has been. It's never been "Can I play Channel and Fastbond?"

[@RG-wv3gt]

@@DangerKennyB that's just not true...

[@flabberwalkey5469]

I don't own any of these cards but I don't really agree with most of these bans. Nadu had to go but jeweled lotus was literally designed for commander, crypt and extortionist have been existing for years without being a huge problem, the real problem is power creep ruining the game.

[@simonteesdale9752]

On the other hand, I own several of these cards (Crypt, Dockside), and love the bans. Fast mana generally just leads to runaway games, and Mana Crypt especially is the biggest example of paying to win in commander.

[@dhantefranklin336]

These cards are the powercreep, WTF???

[@Hapkins-le6xf]

The "designed for commander" doesn't really fly as a reason to keep it. Wotc designing things exclusively for commander and not being in charge of the format has always been silly.

[@crisgon9552]

​@dhantefranklin336 dude exactly. I don't think the mana rocks should have been banned but Dockside and Thoracle should have

[@themoops4006]

@@crisgon9552 thassa's oracle is exclusively problematic in cEDH and doesn't do any of the things these cards were banned for, it doesn't skip you ahead three turns when its in your opening hand. and if you're going to ban that combo ban demonic consultation, thassa's oracle is still a perfectly fair wincon for self-mill or big draw decks not running the combo.

[@Patrick45392]

I love the fact that a card that was specifically designed for commander and can be only played in commander (also brawl), got banned

[@chuckgreen6386]

Also be played in legacy and vintage… it’s useless in either of those formats

[@Lazydino59]

2 cards, dockside is unplayable in pretty much any format as well and was introduced in a commander precon

[@crawdaddy2004]

Don’t forget Hullbreacher (though that was a long time ago). And Golos… let’s be honest, it wasn’t for Standard. 😂

[@brianpendleton2674]

Sarcasm yes? What a ridiculous ban. Sell us a card and then ban it within a year? Even nadu... ban in modern made sense but not edh.

[@Arctanis-vt3hl]

@@Lazydino59 Dockside can be played in other formats. Artifacts and enchantments exist in legacy formats.

[@gn0s1s]

3 lotus, 3 crypts, and a dockside, deleting about 2g's thanks wizards, i know going forward, don't buy anything, just proxy. Sweet. saved me crazy amount of money for the future. Gonna sell my duals, those are too fast and good.

[@arturstasienko2234]

I'm done with buying magic cards. Only proxies from now on.

[@TedMattos]

Haha yep. I picture some of these proxy sites just rubbing their hands together at this announcement. :)

[@1973mckenzie]

Guess now that Sheldon is gone, the rules committee is gonna help Hasbro run the game into the ground. In reality, who really plays commander at sanctioned events anyways...

[@Vernonnn]

There are a lot of discord channels with events that follow RC bans and have cash and/or physical prizes

[@markkolodziej496]

Sheldon was holding the RC back now that he's out of the way they can do the things that the format needs

[@aquablue3dsi]

Imagine getting the Savine deck for christmass, getting dockside. Then it's banned. Me rn

[@EvanFarshadow]

Iirc it was said forever ago that if a precon is illegal in edh that it is still legal if it's an unmodified precon. This rule came up when one of the Ikoria precons had 2 copies of a single card

[@EvanFarshadow]

Best to ask your playgroup though

[@Lazydino59]

@@EvanFarshadowI thought that was a brawl thing because of banning a standard legal card

[@Arctanis-vt3hl]

That's the risk of buying anything.

[@EvanFarshadow]

@@Lazydino59 it happened with Ikoria's precons too iirc specifically bc of the two copies of a card issue

[@vampirica11]

I can understand Nadu, as that can keep you waiting for your turn for 10 minutes, but the other 3 are just fine. And if you ban these cards then you can have the same argument for a Sol Ring or a Rhystic Study / Smothering Tithe or Ancient Tomb... And every CEDH's deck has become illegal. I can forsee a format split. A card like Mana Crypt is something I actually need in decks to be able to still play my slow expensive commanders to have a chance against the low mana cost Commanders.

[@RG-wv3gt]

I definitely think they should have banned sol ring too (which I guess they pretty much admitted lol)

[@sir_quirkus7206]

To me if they’re going to ban nadu for that reason uhhh gitrog does that same nonsense only instead of shuko its dakmor

[@dhantefranklin336]

@@sir_quirkus7206 Nah. Not as egregious.

[@Arctanis-vt3hl]

But everyone gets to play Mana Crypt, so it's an illusion thinking that you have a chance just because you're playing Mana Crypt. If they are playing it too, the net effect is zero.

[@vampirica11]

@@Arctanis-vt3hl I don't play Mana Crypt in decks that have cheap commanders, I just don't need it. But if I need to wait for turn 6 to play my non-green Commander I want all the fast mana I can get!

[@guidomista2570]

These really feel like the RC taking a stance against wotc designing cards for commander, especially with Nadu. The competitive side of the format is so much more accessible and casual players can’t be blindsided anymore, so I’m stoked.

[@joewaid]

This was a really well thought out observation, thanks for sharing

[@ShyLoo1994]

Those same cards that are winning games will go up in price. It doesn’t matter if there are rocks at all.

[@gzzuss]

Did they grow some balls? Finally 😂😂😂

[@brianpendleton2674]

Nope, they just bent over to the minority whining at them I guess. No reason to ban these except maybe cedh.

[@mathieupaquette3908]

It’s going to be hard on MTG players and collectors as a whole. When rules can change at any time, then cards value becomes purely speculative. This decision is going to have a big ripple effect on the market. If they wanted to blow the market, that’s the way to do it😢

[@vakuzar]

Jeweled lotus is the worst one, literally a useless card everywhere else on purpose Mana crypt hurts the most, was the ultimate booster chase for years

[@henrytorr5810]

Why should the rules committee consider the product viability and price of cards in a format where they are solely trying to cultivate what most players agree is the most fun way to play???

[@vakuzar]

@@henrytorr5810 They shouldnt, it less about the price and more similar to Sol ring. If they where gonna bann Mana crytpt they should have done so literally years ago.

[@karson2022]

@@henrytorr5810 Obviously they do it is the reason that they state sol ring doesn't get banned. If all cards got banned for unfun playpatters then this format would have a lot less decks

[@henrytorr5810]

@@vakuzar I actually 100% agree with this, crypt should have been banned years years ago

[@EGCRaptor]

The Nadu ban was needed, it shows people never played against the value engine of Chulane and set there for 35mins for a single turn every turn.

[@brianpendleton2674]

In cedh maybe. Otherwise nope.

[@bobthor9647]

I’ve never seen anyone play Nadu in casual

[@RG-wv3gt]

​@bobthor9647 there are people in the comments talking about their Nadu decks

[@EGCRaptor]

@@brianpendleton2674 haven't played much commander have you?

[@mazdab5454]

I feel in doing this It is only going to cause more headaches and controversy. People who've spent hundreds or thousands of dollars blinging out decks are not willing to just throw those cards away and they're also not willing to take a huge loss by selling them for pennies on the dollar. What I fear is going to happen is people are not going to take them out of their decks and therefore are not going to be able to play at lgs's which is sad. The thing that no one is talking about is the local game stores who are going to lose tons of their customer base. Like myself who enjoy playing higher powered magic. I will not spend another dollar on Magic. The gathering I have listed my entire collection and I will strictly proxy going forward.

[@sir_quirkus7206]

Hell yeah join the club! Proxies are where it’s at.

[@michaelcollins4534]

You know you could always rule 0 stuff back into your tables if you and your playgroup like the higher power levels

[@RG-wv3gt]

As someone who plays in stores, this makes me especially happy. Half of games are three people with a tribal deck and one person with mana crypt

[@JD-gk7eh]

Players are faced with a choice: play by the rules of the format or don't play with most people. What you are saying is that most of the people at an LGS all run Mana Crypt and Jeweled Lotus in their decks and this is the only reason they play the game. That suddenly the inability to cast a Commander 2-3 turns ahead of time 10% of the the games is the only reason their decks work. And that those people are all going to quit now that they can't do that. I mean...good riddance, if that was the only thing keeping you playing.

[@alexfrost4909]

Proxies from now on. Fu wotc

[@tomdoetsch8603]

Beezy just going “AHHHH” feels quite representative of the whole EDH community

[@lordBeerus467]

This is ridiculous, how can they ban jeweled lotus. It's only a commander card and it's worthless now. They screwed players. These were chase cards of fairly recent sets.

[@sir_quirkus7206]

For real. I’d be pissed. Luckily I sold mine off last year as my play group isn’t super sweaty but people just lost 100’s of dollars. That card is going to crash in value like ive never seen befire

[@IVISMiLESIVI]

It's overpowered and honestly a pushed card. Wotc knows commander is the most popular format and IMHO they should've banned it from the get go.

[@macces82]

​@@sir_quirkus7206True. I have one Jeweled Lotus and 2x Docksides. Not a fortune but still pretty tough. Dockside as well as Jeweled Lotus are now like 20€ here in Germany when I looked it up today. I can live with that but if you just pulled a Mana Crypt from the Ixalan set that must be devasdating.

[@ShannoSauro]

they already sold the packs, soooo..

[@BillyTheFridge]

​@@IVISMiLESIVIthey shouldn't have printed it and sold packs based on it. This shakes up player trust.

[@alexanderaugunas9795]

Did y'all manage to get this whole video out in like two hours? Amazing!

[@aaronbennett3966]

Meanwhile, people who never looped dockside: 😑

[@MrJustintreat]

I've never looped it so the ban sucks a little

[@Riddimensaur]

I do feel kind of bad for any LGS who has a bunch of these cards in stock, but ultimately feel like banning all of these is the right move. The only one I'd think twice about is Jeweled Lotus, but I'd still land on the side of banning it being right. Still team ban Sol Ring too lol

[@ynottony24]

Can they stop charging $200+ boxes if they're going let the RC ban the chase money cards that make up the sets?

[@henrytorr5810]

WOTC doesn’t run the RC, and the RC don’t determine the price of sets

[@27777BigRedBarn]

Bans are dumb.

[@michaelcollins4534]

I'm genuinely impressed the RC had the backbone to do this. Still more that needs to go and plenty that could be unbanned but this is damn good progress

[@dhantefranklin336]

Hell yeah!

[@DangerKennyB]

Being happy a ruling body imposed your personal rule 0 on me is a weird flex, but ok.

[@michaelcollins4534]

@DangerKennyB damn I'm so sorry for you loss 😔

[@rjswonson]

​@@DangerKennyBThat's literally how the ban list works in every single format.

[@DangerKennyB]

@@rjswonson Commander isn't every format. Standard doesn't have a Rule 0. Trust us with rule 0, and butt the hell out, in my opinion

[@Phantomwaxx]

Reason 1B to buy proxies. I can just toss out those $3 copies of the expensive, now banned cards and move on.

[@DangerKennyB]

.33 apiece if you do a sheet of 108 with MPC....*cheap pop*

[@moonknight2865]

Pretty much.

[@Phantomwaxx]

@@DangerKennyB MPC working well these day?

[@DangerKennyB]

@@Phantomwaxx Yep!

[@ussgordoncaptain]

Sad that they didn't also ban Sol ring, the RC literally said they would have if it weren't so iconic. I think what happened is that the RC changed Philosophies and went "Rule Zero isn't working let's start being more aggressive with stupid stuff"

[@flabberwalkey5469]

nah if they banned sol ring I would just ignore it and keep running it

[@gregory3499]

Hypocrites that's why and a scam.

[@Lazydino59]

My tin foil hat theory is they felt threatened by the cEDH rules committee forming because they failed to do their job adequately for so long

[@andree9412]

@@Lazydino59 These bans are bad for cedh and if anything pushes for them to use their own ban lists in tournaments.

[@CrashKaiju]

One costs around a dollar, the other costs 80.

[@chaosbuster1275]

I fully believe the core reason Nadu was banned was simply because the RC realized that no matter how you play this card, it’s always gonna be obnoxious to deal with. You may be able to rule zero it out of a game, but that won’t get far when it’s added to the 99 of a deck, and when they have a lightning greaves they go “oops, looks I’m going infinite. Have fun watching me grind my deck for 20 minutes.” It’s also the most powerful cedh commander which wouldn’t be a problem if the card wasn’t a time waster. Basically, I don’t see how anyone would want to play against this card, and I think the RC came to that conclusion.

[@sanfranfan53]

Moxfield has been rumored to be next on the banlist.

[@AndyWo91]

Nitpicking Nerds: "Nadu will not get banned" Rules Committee: "About that...." Jokes aside, I have always thought their opinion on Nadu was odd and kind of detached from the reality of what the card is. If every table is rule 0'ing out a card, it has to get banned. Plus wizards admitted this was a design mistake that bird should not of shipped the way it did.

[@ilyaginsburg1888]

Such cards should have either be banned immediately or not be banned ever. They had CHEATED millions of players, including me, and the very idea of my deck becomes unplayable now. Note that Sol Ring is not only is here to stay, but it's reprinted in every starter :) So looks like they don't oppose the crazy ramp - they just oppose more or less RELIABLE crazy ramp.

[@Freddisred]

Well a deck is a living document and should be amended as the game (Hasbro's profit margins) demands.

[@MTG69]

What's next, the RC starts banning the reserved list, Mox diamond, LED, Timetwister?

[@markkolodziej496]

Hopefully

[@toastymansabe]

Jeweled lotus turn 1 into your commander is a horrible play, your opponents can easily kill it turn 1 and then good luck casting it again

[@brianpendleton2674]

Yuuuup. People don't run enough removal I guess. Big turn 1 or 2 means everyone targets you.

[@Insharai]

Yeah lotus is the weirdest one for me... casually it isn't really going to help me cast my stupid three color commander, cedh most of those were for color shells anyways and they didn't really turbo out anything >2

[@ed8054]

mana crypt only matters in high powered casual or cedh to me. casual games, people tend to have janky cards, not many wincons, not much card draw, etc. Ive noticed in most casual games, the issue isnt mana, its card advantage and wincon availability.

[@markdziamski4859]

Now Jeweled Lotus is a completely worthless card not legal anywhere? I guess that’s what happens when Sheldon passes away.

[@chuckgreen6386]

Technically it’s legal in legacy and vintage it’s just useless in those formats

[@markdziamski4859]

@@chuckgreen6386 so just gonna be a $0.10 card now

[@brianpendleton2674]

Exactly, what is the point?

[@Arctanis-vt3hl]

@@chuckgreen6386 Storm count I guess

[@henrytorr5810]

Why should the rules committee consider the product viability and price of cards in a format where they are solely trying to cultivate what most players agree is the most fun way to play???

[@JohnAutopsy]

I mean I'm glad for all the casual players who got pubstomped by a psycho who took out their $+1000 deck at an FNM event. But some people like to play cedh, and having just lost upwards of $150 on cards only ever legal in this format must feel super bad. Personally I never encountered any of these in my play groups unless it was high power games and just like Golos these could have easily been rule-zeroed.

[@joshdean7523]

Play the cards you want and that you’ve paid for. Just rule zero, and play the game!

[@cw5948]

Pretty obnoxious to have a lengthy rule 0 discussion every time I’m with a group of strangers and have to try to negotiate what type of game should be played.

[@RookzTV]

Yeaaa banning jeweled lotus, which is a card for commander format ONLY, is such a low ball. Someone said The One Ring deserves to be banned more than the lotus and i 100% agree.

[@simonteesdale9752]

Counterpoint: Turboing out a problematic commander isn't particularly fun either. Lotus enabling T2 Tergrid, T3 Niv-Mizzet Parun, or T1 Hakbal just isn't fun.

[@brianpendleton2674]

One Ring is fine too.

[@henrytorr5810]

Why should the rules committee consider the product viability and price of cards in a format where they are solely trying to cultivate what most players agree is the most fun way to play??? And why can’t they just both be banned, I’ve seen a lot of people saying that the one ring should have been banned instead of jeweled lotus, but why can’t they just both be banned???

[@mcbrummel2]

These cards, did not need to be banned. A table, or a group can talk about power levels. This is just destroying card value for sake of it. Printing all these cards in last year in boxes cost a arm and leg. This makes me so sad.

[@brodymorales3520]

This will only hurt Cm's thats cost 5 or more

[@angelmartinez-wm5bk]

My atraxa grand unifier has been consistent without JL but it does hurt a little

[@phatkaveh60]

A) who the fuck thinks what some nerd ass committee thinks should be banned in a casual format B) I’m never spending money on expense cards again in my life

[@MrJustintreat]

The bans feel brought on due to casual players complaing. You could have multiple ban secrions casual, cedh, commander (who your commander is) or do away with the ban list

[@Arctanis-vt3hl]

A ban list is absolutely necessary. I hate rule zero. There should be rules to any game and if you ignore the rules you're not really playing the game. Casual just means you don't care about winning. It doesn't mean ignore the rules.

[@nigelgilbert223]

@@Arctanis-vt3hl Well rule 0 is literally the game so maybe try Pauper if you're too socially unskilled to play in the social format

[@MrJustintreat]

Casual in my area doesn't mean not caring about winning, but not spending $100's on decks or even cards. That's not to say in some circles casual doesn't mean what you described. With that said, it is casual players complaining about the power of these banned cards and calling for them to be banned. I have the dockside I need to remove from Prosper tomb bound. I did buy the nadu to make as a commander when his price dropped but I didn't make it before the ban so ehh. I don't think it is smart to view magic cards as a financial investment as bans like this can significantly drop them, but if someone just purchased these cards to play at a specific power level, only to have them banned, thats a feels bad moment

[@moonknight2865]

Im really glad I didnt buy Dockside and was given it but goddamn I wish I had sold it. 😂 Also banning jeweled lotus, a card specifically made for commander, a card they created only to ban it, proves they really don’t think about their game design as much as they claim they do.

[@phill8260]

If you want to get rid of toxic play, they should’ve just banned every single card that said you win the game

[@nigelgilbert223]

Agreed - this doesn't fix toxic games, it's just casual crybabies crying that they can't navigate the social format. If you can't rule 0 then that's a you problem. e.g. mana crypt isn't necessary to torture your pod with a chaos deck for 2 hours... right?

[@tresnalder2149]

I love this for casual edh groups where you play with new or random people a lot like I do. One time someone told us his deck was a 4 and he planned to win with Barren Glory. He Thoracled us on t3. I feel it's so much easier to have the talk of, "we should house unban these" than forcing random people to take cards out or hating them out of games because they played them. I do hope for more bans like this soon.

[@shoryoken]

Fuck the rules committee.

[@thegreenmoon8823]

I'm in the minority but I believe this is a step in the wrong direction this is just the start of a policing process that starts hurting the format and is hurting Cedh, as someone who like to play big mana commanders these starts are somewhat needed at times. In my opinion if this is not reversed it is the start of a policing snowball that will slowly have the commander format be a slow beat down format leaving no room for different strategies. (This isn't my full opinion on the matter but in the end) WE DON'T NEED TO BAN THESE CARDS PEOPLE JUST NEED TO TALK AND SET BOUNDARIES

[@MrxDaffy]

NO, talking dont work most of the time

[@RG-wv3gt]

Talking can be great in a pod with friends but often isn't really viable in stores

[@brianpendleton2674]

Agreed!!!

[@brianpendleton2674]

​@RG-wv3gt but are you competing for money/cards? If not... the downside isn't very big. I'm not playing these cards with randos who might get mad anyways without extensive rule zero. I want people who play hard, don't cry, shuffle up and play again.

[@wchenful]

To be fair, these bans probably do increase build diversity in casual edh. In cEDH, it most likely has the opposite effect. Sans-blue red (especially gruul/naya/mono-red) are taking a huge hit. I don't think it matters too much though, cEDH players and tournament organisers can just Rule 0 these cards in until they decide to form their own committee.

[@Darkscotty76]

"The RC doesn't make decisions fast enough!" Also: "They should have gave Nadu more time in the format"

[@petermullins10]

Well my collection just lost a ton a value 🙃. My group is in the power down step in this never ending cycle so this won’t affect most of my decks but it really hurts my binder😢😢.

[@Arctanis-vt3hl]

That can happen regardless of format. That's the risk of buying cards. I have a dockside and it's just what happens sometimes.

[@qwormuli77]

Don't use cardboard as an investment?

[@petermullins10]

I understand the sentiment there. I don’t “invest” in magic the gathering but I had cards that were worth money and know they’re worth much less. Just a bummer

[@bobthor9647]

So you guys are happy to lose $1,000 from your collection? Having a small group of people arbitrarily and without warning decide the financial fate of millions of Magic players isn’t “healthy”

[@tendo339]

nothing makes sense asides the greed of WOTC. They kept sol ring because it would make their products illegal. That's lame

[@27777BigRedBarn]

The RC is separate from WoTC. Pretty sure WoTC doesn't want these bans. What else could sell Marvel like a Mana Crypt.

[@simonteesdale9752]

WotC doesn't control the commander banlist. The RC kept Sol Ring because it's the face of commander.

[@tendo339]

@@simonteesdale9752 "sure" and it's not fast mana? Because I can still have 5 mana turn 3 like in their example. It's because the next precons are already printed

[@tendo339]

@@27777BigRedBarn it's crazy how these bans are very convenient and how they're all banned after sales of the sets containing them have tapered off.

[@AlphaDraconis369]

If anything needs to be banned it should be tutors.

[@Draconamous]

Turn 1: Swamp, dark ritual, jeweled lotus, kokusho. Yup, jeweled can still be good.

[@AbyssArray]

I sold off my Mana Crypt and Dockside a good long time ago. My table ramped up its power over the first year we started, and then we've been dialing it back since then

[@sw33tshar3]

Banning Jeweled Lotus/Crypt/dockside and not Sol Ring seems to be just shitting on people who have money to spare to play

[@mustang2918]

My question is, when they ban all the "dominant" cards in commander, what are all the trash players going to blame all their loses on?

[@Dynoboot]

I somehow can't shake this uneasy feeling that the death of Sheldon Menery might have opened up pandora's box when it comes to bannings. It reminds me of situations where people who held a certain amount of respect or power suddenly were gone, and a power vacume was created. Political parties, board of directors, even cults. After the leader is gone, people are willing to take over and make changes they see fit.

[@Whiplash47]

Happy to see this even though I run all these cards but Nadu. None of them really make the game better. Be sure to show the rules committee some love, because I am sure a lot of hate is heading their way

[@ernst_aames2005]

Mana crypt and jeweled lotus made it so that higher CMC commanders were viable in high powered games. Removing them makes Dimir even more of a tier 0 deck. How is that not making the format worse?

[@simonteesdale9752]

​@@ernst_aames2005 Are you talking about cEDH? Because Flash aside, they don't ban for cEDH.

[@VeilXI]

Imagine curating a ban list to protect the kitchen table battlecruiser meta magic that didn’t actually need protecting. And ruining the competitive scene all in one rip. No one was playing any of those at a table where it would feel bad. And if they were, you did not effectively communicate a rule 0 discussion. Lots of talk to completely ignore the RC now. I’m here for it. Strange hill for them to die on, though.

[@FatstaxMTG]

Bad bans(except badu) this is just a giant middle finger to the cedh community.

[@mickjameson4384]

If cedh wants to be something serious maybe they should make it a seperate format with its own banlist!

[@skitz5664]

Agreed - I find commander to be full of whiners, much prefer constructed play anyway.

[@dhantefranklin336]

Get better then.

[@StaceyIsles]

How? Jeweled is a 3 for 0 black lotus just for a commander, your commander tax doesn't care now with that

[@FatstaxMTG]

@@mickjameson4384 that would just kill cedh most likely. They tried oathbreaker years ago and it didn’t work.