Commanders We Hate Playing Against | The Command Zone 561 | MTG EDH Magic Gathering Deckbuilding

[@commandcast]

What commander(s) do you hate playing against? Is it about the Commander or about the archetype they represent? What makes a commander frustrating to play against for you?

[@thriftypsgr]

I have a list! To be fair I can beat all of these but the games are always stressful. Raiyona Winota Feather the redeemed Korvold Yuriko Each one of these bother me a lot because once the commander comes out you are on a timer. You need to remove or lock the commander or these cards win quickly.

[@thriftypsgr]

Also, even though I CAN beat these commanders, I lose to them just as much as I win, probably more. 😂

[@rjkmusicmedia]

Yoda would not be proud fo your hate. Some of these cards are great to play and play against. If someone has a weird/powerful deck we build counters to it and that adds to the fun; expand and grow in the world don't limit and fill it with hate and restrictions.

[@CheenTheCat]

I generally dislike decks that prevent opponents from playing, which usually means either stax or removal tribal. A few commanders I dislike: - Hokori, Dust Drinker - Grand Arbiter Augustin IV - Derevi, Imperial Tactician - Ghyrson Starn, Kelermorph

[@savannahlion3081]

I "Loathe" Decks that do Land destruction... Milll is a Tie for 🥇. 🤘🦁🤘

[@josemaravilla6955]

Now make a Command Zone Game with only these Commanders.

[@Spoodlewok]

haha that's what I thought this was when clicking on it

[@MrZzyzx888]

Everyone at the table plays a commander someone else at the tables hates.

[@hadeszero4526]

That seems like it would be miserable.

[@crawdaddy1234]

@@MrZzyzx888Or… they each play the Commander they hate playing against.

[@djryat4591]

@@crawdaddy1234thats a good idea, they can realize the appeal of the deck while playing it.

[@craigfernandez4433]

The second half felt like therapy. “Let me tell you how you’ve hurt me”

[@insainraven9875]

And I’m here for it

[@chocobojerky4844]

Eminence is such a bs mechanic. I don't want to hear anybody ever complain anymore about avoiding commander tax when you're getting free abilities that nobody can interact with from the command zone

[@RBGolbat]

Coincidentally on the day the EDHRec salt score voting started!

[@ReaperKingMTG]

Well yeah "the command zone effect" knows no bounds. 😂😂

[@TheWenisBandit]

"Korvold makes turns go too long" Josh "turn every episode of Game Knights and Extra Turns into solitaire" Lee Kwai

[@mofomiko]

It is known how much he is loved

[@chrisjackson8529]

It is known

[@adam6727]

I didn’t know Ladee Danger left! Best wishes to her in her future endeavors!

[@screwthisin]

Same. I miss her. She was a fun addition to the podcast.

[@arkavalon5347]

HUH!!? SHE LEFT!!? O_O NUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!

[@NRGFL0]

"Thanks for bringing in Tergrid." Are words I never thought I would hear.

[@brningpyre]

As a former Lightpaws player, I completely agree. I even tried to build it as more of a toolbox, but I would always end up searching for the same things anyway. It's just too linear.

[@skruffytiger2002]

it's great in the 99 though!

[@brianrobinson4710]

Nows not as unfair but better light paws in pearl ear.

[@thomaspetrucka]

I gotta tell you, I’ve never been upset with someone playing a commander…but I am always put of by players who get mad at me for removing their Kaalia of the Vast for the third time. Especially when the win the game after they cast her the fourth time.

[@condensedmilk]

And thats why you never cast her w/out a protection ready 😌

[@Lowelo860]

or why are u attacking me ? while having the most busted commander at the table and crying for 40 minutes .

[@knic918]

There is a good variety of play styles represented in the episode. After listening to the crew, I could see some themes emerge which I think are universal to decks that Commander players generally don't like playing against: Long indeterminate turns, due to decision paralysis based on excessive draw (and too many players being uptight about sequencing suboptimally, like JLK said). Offenders include Korvold, Ob-Nixilis, Sythis, Zada. Decks that are so resilient that removal and answers from opponents don't slow the strategy down. Offenders include Edgar Markov, Miirym, Narset, Sythis. Decks that have aggressive, linear strategies which accelerate past any answers that opponents can deploy. Offenders include Light Paws, Narset, Sythis, Yoshimaru, Yuriko. Decks that are designed to remove agency and/or restrict resources from the other players ie. not let your opponents play the game. Offenders include Tergrid, Mishra Possibility Storm. (I personally think this is the most egregious class of play style, as it breaks the casual convention and includes multiple strategies that are deeply despised by many - theft, discard, mill, land destruction, infinite turns, stax, and locks). I was heartened when some of the crew said that their friends who had decks like these broke them down, once they realized that the play patterns weren't fun.

[@EvilerOMEGA]

Have to disagree with narset being resistent to removal. Sure, she has hexproof, but that doesn't mean she can't be countered, sacrified, deathtouched (toughness 4 or greater isn't that hard) or boardwiped. First strike is great until she's blocked by something with more than 3 toughness and 1 power. Not only that, but narset has a hard time dealing with anything creature heavy (she can only block one creature at a time and she folds to anything with decent power and toughness). She also costs a lot and getting her off the field once can be game ending for narset. Blockers for narset are hard to come by since her ability will leave any of the creatures people run with her in permanent exile. There's squee the immortal and an eldrazi that I think are the only two exceptions. Mana for narset also gets a bit tricky. Her ability also leaves lands permanently in exile since they are not considered spells. So once narset is countered, sacrificed, deathtouched, or killed by blockers, narset players are sitting ducks until they can cast her from the command zone for 8 mana, then 10 mana, then 12 mana, then 14 mana...

[@bradsimpson8724]

We've solved this problem in our playgroup. We're all veteran players with lots of decks, and we play with a house rule called One Deck Wins. Once a deck has won for a night, it goes back in the box, and it doesn't play in the pod again until we "vote" it back in.

[@green_dragon_knight]

55:50 is the point where Jordan realised this whole episode was his friends staging an intervention for Jordan’s decks

[@rhisky613]

Josh nailed Korvold, it absolutely needs to be played casually and accepting of mistakes for it to not feel slow and frustrating. Sacrifice as much as you can, draw some cards, hit someone for a bunch of damage, pass turn and starting thinking about your next turn.

[@vemynal]

I do this but instead of punching people in the face I diddle around with tokens and aristocrat type effects. I'll even sac my rly big Korvald for *even more tokens*. It is not a good deck 😅 but it is a fun deck lol (Korvold is basically just an expensive but *rly* powerful draw engine). But yeah, I'll draw cards if he's out. Sometimes 10+ cards. And ya just don't look at any until your next turn to keep it rolling.

[@gershomtan5879]

I hit with korvold, then sac him to ziatora to burn for more damage. Leave him in graveyard so I never pay commander tax, bring him back, rinse repeat.

[@chadnuttall9117]

Josh I loved how you made the topic into a constructive conversation ❤❤❤

[@commandcast]

Glad you liked it!!

[@burningpapersun1]

Problem with Edgar is that no one ever actually cast Edgar. It never leaves the command zone.

[@zpeedy1]

It's likely because the more powerful Edgar decks don't need to. My original version didn't even use red mana. I guess that's why people hate his eminence ability. I've since built stronger decks so I decided to power down my Edgar deck for casual play by adding red and focusing more on tribal Vampires instead of aristocrats. It's quite fun to actually use him on the battlefield tbh. He always felt wasted before lol.

[@Jessthree]

eminence is just a lame mechanic. you essentially get a emblem just by choosing that deck.

[@burningpapersun1]

@@Jessthree i don't mind stuff like Ahrabo but Edgar is just absurd as an ability. It's like them making the companion ability, it was too overpowered except for the cat one.

[@mikebott6940]

@@Jessthree They just hide out in the Commander penthouse, and never face removal.

[@ty_sylicus]

I *always* cost my Edgar as my build is Vampire typal.

[@TedMattos]

Out of all the staff/cast of TCZ, after Mr. Blanchette, I feel like Mr. Pridgen would be a blast to play with. :)

[@jakebossmtg4899]

He absolutely is.

[@JordanPridgen]

Maybe I'll see you at a magiccon one day!

[@Curra1199]

15:30 that's why i only play yuriko at cedh pods, it isn't fun unless everyone else is at that power

[@apeboy4]

Same is with Kinnan, there are many commanders that are too powerful for casual game

[@joshbrown8043]

playing against it i threw down a Mindcrank and made my other two opponents hate it even more..

[@taylorforsyth4278]

And if she isn't optimally built, the blowout potential is HUGE. So you're left with a commander that everyone knows can deal tons of damage to everyone so they have blockers up, your ninjas are already on the board without evasion or recursion, and even if you do get through, you haven't drawn into top deck manipulation so you're revealing lands and cheap creatures.

[@henryarbaugh7255]

Preventing people from playing magic is part of playing magic, and preventing people from preventing you from playing magic is also part of playing magic.

[@Shawn-f3x]

Not all parts of MtG are for all players. One of the reasons I left for 15 years and only came back for EDH is I couldn’t be more tired of how playing MtG at a high level feels. Between the viable deck narrowing function of every Meta to ever exist, and the availing of rules-minutiae for game advantage, to the fact you can often go an entire tournament without seeing anyone smile at anything but their winning or an opponent losing…yeah. EDH is at its best literally when it’s the least like 60-card. Least that’s my take. I’ll never forget the years I played w/ my Mom and cracked boxes w/ her, or us trawling Targets, flea markets, sports collectible shops, and rental storage auctions, but I deeply regret moving into competitive Type I, and I had the juice back then for what would become Vintage.

[@murlocmasher3368]

Damen and Craig talking about the temur dragons was so freaking amazing. Love the energy/passion they had, shits therapeutic

[@thehumanjukebox77]

"Board Wipe Tribal" decks make me Big Sigh. A guy in one of the pods I play in has a Sarulf, World Eater commander deck, and until the group has hated Sarulf enough that he's not castable, nobody can do any board building.

[@ethanboyd2981]

The commander I hate playing against in Jodah, the Unifier. If you don't kill Jodah early and often, you'll be stuck facing a board with a ton of legendary creatures all with +x/+x, and the Jodah player didn't even have to do much to create such a scary boardstate.

[@bryantmorrill6081]

Haha I have a Jonah deck. I pulled it from a pack and built it when I was just starting out in commander... now I realize how OP it is but can't take it apart because it's one of my first brews and I love it.

[@tp1592]

Oh, yeah, glad to see this Jodah get mentioned. I absolutely adore my build (and ever so tempted to build a dragon-specific version too), but it is so easy to have it run away and win the game.

[@bryantmorrill6081]

Yeah but it's also not that hard to deal with. Jodah just needs to be removed and commander tax will eventually slow it down. I find that many players just have terrible threat assessment. Jodah is nuts but has no evasion or protection. At least it's not Tibalt Cosmic Imposter. That deck is a nightmare.

[@wilgreyger]

Completely agree and what is worst is that if a single trigger of Jodah resolves usually if the owner didn´t build it with jank they will cascade into one of the legendaries that give protection/indestructible/reanimation when it dies or any sort of on board protection. It will always end up with, cast jodah, do we have removal on the spot, removal on your turn or exile effect if not either prepare a boardwipe or several( if it was allowed to cascade into any protection) it ends up being so polarizing that if threat assesment on the table is not on point it runs away with the game so easily

[@Someone-lg6di]

I ended up biulding jodah as a superfriends deck so its not legendary tribal

[@Disasterj]

The Craig Miirym story is just telling me i just hate being the only player that does anything to the obvious threat of the group.

[@mofomiko]

Worst part is if removal is STILL aimed at your half empty board

[@mightyone3737]

Control is often targeted by spiteful players, even as it serves as the board police. As I mature as a player I find I prefer decks to have a robust control element, all else being equal. I think the key is to build a deck that can be political about things, and try to keep yourself alive until it's 1v1 and then try to win. It's nice if more than one player can interact to solve problems.

[@draken882000]

I feel like this is the perfect place to tell my Miirym. So, to start, I'm the Miirym player. My Miirym story stared at Baldur's Gate prerelease. I played blue green dragons with Gate support and had a blast. Next week, I pull Miirym, Goldspan Dragon, and Old Gnawbones from two packs and a promo. I built a version of the deck. At the time, it was not the busted version most guys play. A guy in my LGS playgroup saw Miirym and immediately decided I was public enemy number 1 because an entirely different person stomped him with a Miirym deck, even though I had been behind the curve the entire game! Arguments over me being targeted and me retaliating over what I felt was undue targeting persisted for months. I eventually gave it up and decided that if everyone was gonna paint me as a villain and attack me, I was gonna live up to the title. A week later, I found the AFR dragons deck for cheap, added Mazes End, and now I curb stomp folks.

[@CZdamenlenz]

The control player "The hero the board needs but doesn't deserve"

[@Someone-lg6di]

​@@mightyone3737deck strategies that always annoy me are spell slinger since it always feels like they can just go infinite out of nowhere

[@elcapitanofthemtn]

I built a Yuriko deck years ago because I just thought Ninjas were cool and I was able to do it on a pretty low budget. Was one of my only decks for years and I was so excited when Neon Dynasty came out for all of the new good tools to add in to make it even better. Problem was every time I played it I would get targeted very hard because - as you mentioned - Yuriko is hard to remove and the big swings in damage scare people. I finally switched it to Satoru Umezawa only changing ~25% of the cards and it has gotten focused down *significantly* less. Still have Yuriko in the 99 but now I actually enjoy busting the deck out at Commander night.

[@jolteon345]

The Light Paws tutoring/consistency issue is a large part of why I shifted my equipment deck to Toski (previously Kemba). I had enough tutoring and consistency that it became all or nothing, needing to draw the correct answers feels more in the spirit of the singleton format. It also helps that people expect me to go wide, not big, but the point stands.

[@praisetherok3299]

Really Suprise Jodah the unifier is not here on the list!

[@commandcast]

Jodah is one of the commander designs I hate the most, but at least he's a proactive deck. - Rachel

[@TheUnpleasantPeasant]

He makes a great replacement after Golos was banned.

[@calebbrown1068]

⁠@@TheUnpleasantPeasant Probably not a good thing he’s comparable to one of the only banned cards in the format.

[@mofomiko]

@@calebbrown1068 he still restricts by committing to legendary type, you still need cards in hand to trigger cascade, and removing him doesn't get a 50% discount on tax, so there's that.

[@RobMakowski]

A guy in my group has both a Sythis and a Jodah Superfriends deck. I hate playing against both

[@RazgrizAce67]

I love that this was the "airing of grievances" episode amongst the crew.

[@Bingusvgc]

Now I want to see a video on commanders all of you guys love sitting across from. Or another video on underrated commanders!

[@alfred8936]

The commanders that are the most boring to me are the ones that have super repetitive patterns of play and/or start snowballing with almost zero effort, to the point it basically has to be dealt with immediately every time it comes out so you don't get buried by someone just sitting there IE: the classic "blue/green value engine with no clear wincon" meme

[@Someone-lg6di]

Zuladoc

[@lorinwood3300]

So thrasios... the only commandeer that will survive the test of time lol

[@whoisyouwhoisyou]

thanks for all the work you guys do!

[@Kruikoin]

I very similarly built a Yoshimaru deck almost the day I saw it spoiled. I partner him with Reyhan because of the colors but also the synergy with +1/+1 counters. I have to say it has genuinely become my favorite deck and surprisingly it is super reliable and resilient which I love.

[@ulifernando]

Great to hear that Narset Enligthened Master was remembered, it's my fave "I'm going to win" deck I have, still get the whole table to target me whenever I play, but I'm already used to it.

[@commandcast]

It's so good!

[@austencline8500]

One of the guys in my playgroup has a Narset deck that's actually really fun because it's Narset Dragon's Approach, so it's basically just fast burn. No extra turn spells, no extra combat spells, no bullshit. For an enchantress adjacent commander that makes for some fun interesting builds, may I recommend Siona, Captain of the Pyleas.

[@timwilliams92]

Rachel, I am currently brewing Rowan, Scion of War as an enchantress commander. It’s 🔥

[@AnonymousOblivion]

47:35 My first commander deck was Zada, Hedron Grinder. I knew every card by heart in a few months and would go through the deck every couple of weeks to switch out worse cards for better ones. After learning my lines I could knock out a player reliably in 6 turns in under 10 minutes. Honestly, it's not that bad. You guys make it sound so awful to play against.

[@BuckShotTherapy]

I agree lol but it's probably a headache to watch a player who's not use to having a bunch of triggers go on the stack and resolving them correctly. Plus missed triggers. I've been running zada for years now. Went from as casual as I could build it to a high powered/low tier cEDH deck

[@B3NN3TT066]

I love that light-paws isn't my commander, I use it as a combo piece in my auras deck

[@keelangilmour2511]

I love watching Jordan’s decks and their gameplay. The Yoshimaru+Rograk deck is great to watch

[@jehansilva9268]

The sections with Jordan were the first time I can remember actually laughing out loud during an episode. But I also feel so called out 😭

[@oliviauzquiano7392]

I also get kind of annoyed by miirym, because I feel like the designers gave it ward 2 to protect a six drop, but if you’re playing a six drop just take the punishment if it gets removed immediately, that’s the risk you take when you play a high mana commander.

[@insainraven9875]

I have a Yuriko deck that’s just pirates. The Pod is always confused when she never comes out

[@esergio]

😂

[@ismailjudeh9414]

I love the fact that we got to see more of the command zone family and hear their take on the format. I’d love to see more of this! Maybe and extra turns with 4 behind the scenes people? Keep up the great content!

[@Morgainsa]

Sythis was my first deck, made it for a budget deck challenge when first getting into commander, back then it was only a 30 dollar deck. Now it is over 200 dollars in value. She will forever be in my heart.

[@OG_G4m3r]

Sythis is AMAZING. Don't let others police your fun.

[@Jimmythehead]

Rachel I was in the same boat as you looking for an enchantment deck that spoke to me and tried out Stangg, Echo Warrior. It’s so explosive and fragile that every game is a lot of fun. Plus you get to do all the fun draws enchantress does while dishing out good beats. When you get to have an insane turn with a Storm Herald then I knew it was the one for me.

[@Someone-lg6di]

Myrkull for abzan enchantments the enchantress draw of cast arnt as usefull as constelations and you need creatures ti turn into enchantments also somehow i pulled a full playset of the card

[@Mordain_Thade]

The breakdown here is pretty funny when you really think about it. Of the 12 commanders on the list, eight of them are here because they basically just do one thing, and do the one thing in a very powerful and consistent manner (Light-Paws, Tergrid, Yuriko, Miirym, Yoshimaru, Narset, Edgar, and Sythis); then you have a deck that is either very powerful or does nothing while depending on very specific cards (Mishra), a friendly reminder to play efficient win conditions (Ob Nixilis), and two friendly reminders to know how to play your deck correctly and efficiently (Korvold and Zada). As for commanders I hate playing against... I'm pretty sure only Tergrid is on my list. I've slogged through stax via Alela artifacts & enchants or through Chulane bears, had my hand ripped apart by Nekusar, been voltron commandered out by Tuvasa or Elsha as early as turn 4, or Heliod Ballista'd out by turn 3. Nothing salts me like Tergrid - I simply won't play against it; if the player won't switch decks, I'll find another group or sit out, and if someone plays one from in their 99, they become my sole target for the rest of the game or until Tergrid is exiled. My meta is high-powered non-cEDH, with plenty of tutors and infinites and basically anything goes (including hard game locks and mass land destruction) - but we don't have all of the fast mana in every deck, don't play the meta cEDH cards that only shine in cEDH, and nobody runs Thoracle+Consult (ban Consult + Pact, Thoracle is a fine card without the broken shenanigan enablers).

[@bamzolino]

Ob Nixilis is funny bc people would hate it if you played the All Will Be One combo, so there’s really no winning

[@Christian2k02]

Welcome Mitch!! hope your knighted soon aswell!

[@alexnazemi5787]

Rachel and Jimmy content ?! Is it Christmas already ?

[@FretboardToAsh]

27:30 A friend in my pod let me play his Korvold deck, I did not know of the card. This was exactly my experience, it stalled the table big-time.

[@gazza4589]

I’d say I’m very similar to Jordan. There aren’t decks I hate playing against. I don’t like when someone under rates their combo deck when I’m in a casual pod and they win on turn 4. As long as everyone’s decks are close in power level I’m pretty happy regardless the outcome.

[@Dot_Eleven]

At my last Ccommander night: "This is just a casual deck." Proceeds to play 4 mana rocks and a turn 4 Etali, Primal Storm.

[@gazza4589]

@@Dot_Eleven this is kind of funny to me because someone Ramping for 3 turns to play Etali turn 4 doesn’t even seem THAT bad. A 6 mana spell on turn 4 isn’t OP in my opinion.

[@gazza4589]

@@Dot_Eleven with that being said if everyone else were playing precons then maybe it would be an issue.

[@Dot_Eleven]

@@gazza4589 Yeah, one dude was playing an upgraded version of the roles deck, I was playing Zethi (my board was just Land Tax and Taigam and somehow I was considered the biggest threat) and I can't remember what the other dude was playing.

[@gazza4589]

@@Dot_Eleven Taigam can pop off with just one attack. I can’t really speak about threat assessment since I haven’t played with any of you or know your decks, but a turn 4 Etali doesn’t seem that OP. You’re already stacked on lands and hanging a better chance to draw spells. Do you play interaction?

[@DisregardedHappiness]

Well since you asked, I play Sythis, and I am one who loves playing enchantress, but I also am rather experienced at playing magic, so I know what to play each turn to win a game. My turns have dozens of spells and cast triggers, but I keep track of them easily and its streamlined. My turns are shorter than my opponents trying to figure out how to 1. beat me 2. win 3. sequence their own turns. They will take longer playing 2 or 3 spells on their turn than I take on mine. Also, I have played many much more challenging decks than sythis. This is just triggers, its really not that hard

[@jankspanking8836]

This just feels like a therapy session than a podcast episode.

[@cjoneill6971]

My least favorite commander to play against is Nekussr, not because of wheels or bow masters, it is just because of narset and notion thief I'm always told "it's just 2 out of 99 cards" but when the deck is built to wheel every turn that isn't a valid argument.

[@ProphetofEndTimes]

I think a Command Zone Starter Kit with sleeves, a deck box, a life counter, tokens, a playmat, and maybe even a tshirt would be a cool thing for you all to do. Maybe as a Kickstarter campaign. Maybe as something else? Just a thought.

[@Breviparopus]

Hello Mitch. Thank you for editing for us

[@chaoscharlie3]

@commandcast The problem isn't that they will never print a "better" dragon commander, the problem is that people only want to play the best. I play Renari/Haunted one dragons and love it!!

[@dawubber6676]

Dragons typal is probably my favorite archetype to play (I'm a big Timmy player and started with a dragon trypal deck in commander). There's so many interesting options with different playstyles that get absolutely eclipsed when people look for "only the best" in Miirym or Ur-Dragon. I currently have three active dragon typal decks in Karrthus (Jund attack/combat damage trigger effects), Lozhan (Izzet Warstorm Effects/Dragons that deal noncombat damage), and Dromoka (Selesnya +1/+1 counters decks). They all play widely different and I love them. Particularly Karrthus, my original EDH deck. I've also tried to build Dimir control dragons with Silumgar and Esper Arcane Adaptation Dragons/Flyers with Zur, the Enchanter but I never could get the decks running or finished the way I wanted to. Would love to see your Renari list if you want to post it.

[@chaoscharlie3]

@@dawubber6676 I agree. I also play Ganax/Iron throne. It's dragons! It's treasure! It's strong too.

[@EmmettMcMullan]

I was really happy to hear all of this thoughtful discussion. Josh's indictment of Korvold echoed a lot of feelings I had about a friend's Korvold deck, BUT what I really appreciated was that it was a moment of insight for me about one of my own decks. I had designed a Tana / Reyhan partner deck where I wanted to do as much flavored after the movie Princess Mononoke as I could, and the unfortunate destiny of this +1/+1 modular, devour, saproling token deck was an infuriatingly tedious, so many game action taking, so much new information gaining, card drawing, 25 minute turn taking deck that fit all of the complaints about Korvold. I had to bench it, never to be played again.

[@ZurfCTRL]

I love how Josh articulated his view on Korvold. Spot on

[@vivid.worker]

i didnt know bladee was playable in commander! thats awesome, great content as qlays

[@Society.gave.me.anxiety]

Enchantress is my favorite archetype and the commander for my deck is Kestia, the Cultivator so I built the deck to be more aggro than the usual Enchantress with the Gods so I’m drawing cards while also being more aggressive than Enchantress usually is 😋

[@S0ilStudios]

I have a Mono-white Narset deck. The only non-White color pips in the deck are on the Commander. So that excludes extra turns, extra combats, Omniscience, Enter the Infinite, Fiery Emancipation, etc. ... it's still kind of brutal.

[@ryanstuck4292]

Anikthea i think is a great Enchantress deck, and it actually builds a board state to win. you can swing in with the reanimated enchantments!

[@deanofcool]

So does sythis. You still have to pass with the board state.

[@YueEntialpoh]

@@deanofcool Anikthea actually enables some interesting lines if you lean hard into the graveyard recursion - making copies of grim guardian and wound reflection is fantastic, for one, not to mention things like the Out of Time lock if you feel like having no friends. Access to black also gives you a lot of reliable ways to nab your concordant crossroads or your parallax wave combo, so I feel like Anikthea is actually generally more able to reliably close out a game than other enchantresses.

[@deanofcool]

@@YueEntialpoh I never said it didn’t. My comment was in response to “it actually builds a board state to win” comment. If you think sythis can’t your doing it wrong.

[@ehsanrahee7411]

With the main 2 guys I play with, one buddy has a Liesa, Shroud of Dusk deck that's just so frustrating to deal with because of all the life gain and drain. The other guy just finished his new Gishath, Sun's Avatar deck. We played last weekend and the very first game was over before we could even blink. He had 6 mana by turn 2, had is commander out by turn 3, and had everyone basically dead by turn 4. Though they both hate my Aesi, Tyrant of Gyre Strait deck, so I guess it works out!

[@HJOTech]

Rachel, I've been looking into building a Neva, Stalked by Nightmares deck and I think that could be a fun enchantress deck that isn't so oppressive. She isn't incredibly powerful but I think a master brewer such as yourself could find some cool tech to pair with her!

[@crazyshak4827]

My Sen Triplets: "Am I a joke to you?!" Also Xyris

[@BlakeJob9]

Jordan is the type of player I like in my playgroups. “He loves playing magic, he doesn’t love winning magic. When he wins, the fun is over” I LOVE that!! I can’t believe that was said as a bad thing about him

[@ethanosgood8159]

I absolutely understand and can agree with the Yuriko take, but for me, the Yuriko player, I absolutely love it. I like ninjas, ninjutsu feels unique and fun to figure out, and I LOVE being the Archenemy. I had a fun game with only 3 players, where we decided to try speed running a game. I ended up making a non-legendary copy of Yuriko, and hitting the table for 30 damage with 6 Yuriko triggers, and then immediately dying to the player who lived at 1. Yuriko is a deck that, although definitely strong, I play for the style and gameplay, not to win.

[@RG-wv3gt]

Goro+satoru could be an alternative

[@InquisitorSinCross]

I'm surprised that there was no Niv Mizzet, Parun in the video. The way his decks are built, you will not get rid of him, because he WILL find the answer to your removal thanks to his draw ability, only to find Curiosity and kill everyone from there/have a Thoracle/Lab Man/Jace to win from drawing his whole deck on autopilot.

[@Gustavesevik]

One does simply put curiosity ina niv mizzet deck 😂

[@thetimebinder]

I've played against Shauna's Niv deck a few times and managed to get rid of him each time. It's not easy for sure.

[@KingOfAllGhouls]

Mishra was one of my first commander decks, I quite enjoyed how nobody understood how he worked and were pleasently surprised when he did things

[@pianofanatic101]

Edgar Markov to me is the commander card that truly FEELS like a commander, which is why I love actually casting him (contrary to how most people play him, which understandably results in people feeling salty/cheated playing against him). Lore-wise, in his pursuit of immortality, he becomes the first ever vampire on Innistrad, head of the Markov bloodline, who remain the most powerful family over the centuries. In terms of his actual card, his eminence ability is playing out the role of an ancient vampire lord, as he bestows his marvelous gift to others, quickly and effortlessly increasing his vampire army. We see depicted in the card’s art his many servants attending him as they don his ornately crafted armor and weapons, depicting him as revered yet clearly and rightfully powerful. Then when the time comes and you’ve accumulated enough mana and amassed an army of the night worthy of a true vampire regent, he hits the battlefield as a 4/4 first strike with haste that immediately leads his bloodthirsty kin into battle. His very presence makes them ALL stronger with +1/+1 counters as they inevitably overpower their enemies. Honestly it just feels so good thematically with the commander format and how it’s constructed, and I absolutely love that about him. Of course it helps that as my first stepping stone into commander and mtg as a whole, he’ll always hold a special place in my heart.

[@NoGloveNoLove32]

I agree as a Sythis player the "I did a lot of stuff but I can't win" turns feel bad so I have 2 jank combos: 1) Sanctum Weaver + Gauntlets of Light + Nylea/Rhonas 2) Sanctum Weaver + Gauntlets of Light + Flickering Ward + Nylea's Colossus

[@SpicyPlay]

Yuriko player here. Something I've done to make it feel unique for me is to have the big flips be old cards I would see as a kid. Cards with crazy high CMC like Tidal Kraken and Spirit of the Night. Still draws hate because....Yuriko, but I get to see old cards I remember fondly as a kid.

[@mufasafalldown8401]

That's not really doing anything for anyone else at the table though. Which is the subject of the video 😅

[@SpicyPlay]

@@mufasafalldown8401 I didnt say that it was? Simply talking to the part about how they said Yuriko builds don't feel unique. But thanks for the input.

[@mufasafalldown8401]

@@SpicyPlay we're trying to fix your degenerate decks not make you like them more! Sorry I didnt really word my response correctly. I was trying to be lighthearted sarcastic.

[@SpicyPlay]

@@mufasafalldown8401 you good. I only pull the deck out for specific pods. Along with Nekusar lol. They were the two commanders that got me into the format. I didn't know people hated them till I had them built and sat down to play and heard groans lol. I love them too much to break them down. I just like having a deck I can see old cards from my childhood in. Haven't found another way to get them into a different deck.

[@GalaxiaKnightX]

I also have a Yuriko deck in my collection. I use that deck for when my group wants to go high power. My table group said that it was one of my strongest commander decks when I played it. Though I'm still getting use to Yuriko since I'm mostly a Timmy deck person. Got any advice?

[@shondralyon-brown1603]

30:48 In regards to playing suboptimally, a lot of times when I am drawing cards in the middle of a turn I won't even pay attention to them (unless I am looking for a specific out). I may look at the card, but it doesn't even go into my hand. I just set it off to the side and keep going down the line of play that i planned out beforehand. Only at the end of my turn will all of those cards be officially added to my hand.

[@tash1201]

This is also play group therapy. Make sure you check in on your players folks :P

[@poofypeanut0221]

We all have a card/play style/archetype/format we aren’t a fan of (piloting or playing against). However, something that I don’t enjoy even more than any kind of deck/card pet peeves, is when ppl take their pet peeves (especially when when there’s a popular/common build) and they automatically apply that or assume for the rest of time that they already know/don’t like what your deck is. The conversation around 1:10:00 is the type of conversation that actually kept me AWAY from building a deck around a commander I had fun ideas for multiple times because there was SOME stupid combo or way ppl figured out how to build it where it had some level 10 cedh power haduken but, even if you build the deck with 99 vanilla creatures, it doesn’t matter.. just like Rachel said “I don’t care if you say it’s not THAT deck. it’s still a powerful commander and I’m gonna treat it like it is THAT deck”. To me this type of mindset is a problem. I think EVERY game, even against the SAME decks you just played against, should be evaluated by the cards being played in THAT game. With obviously a bit of caution/awareness in the background of what could happen.but when the community talks about a commander/card as if it’s ONLY played degenerately by EVERYONE with it to the point where someone’s now not going to build something unique and fun they wanted because everyone points and goes “BAD. KILL.” well…that sucks.

[@ethanosgood8159]

I am the person in the playgroup who makes these kinds of decks. I have a couple decks, but my most infamous in my playgroup is Azorius Flicker. It uses Abdel Adrian and wants to flicker everything from mana rocks to auras that effectively kill creatures. The deck got to a point where it started being measured in "turns per turn", cause I could use an instant speed flicker spell to draw 2-6 cards, get 5+ mana from rocks, and venture through an entire dungeon, drawing three more and casting one for free.

[@telepaper1]

Of all the decks I play, the one that gets the most flak is Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker because of how much of a pure grind the game becomes, until one or two pieces that make the deck go from a 5 to a 9 hit the field and because of how much it interacts into every player's turn. It's hilarious to play, however

[@tyego_ewa]

Hey Command Zone, I’m making a bunch of Pauper EDH decks so I can hold a game knight with people at my university. The decks I have so far are Syr Konrad, Dina soul steeper, Vega the watcher, koll the forgemaster, juri master of the revue, Greta sweettooth scourge, eutropia the twice favored, and killian ink duelist. Besides those, what uncommon commanders would you suggest?

[@commandcast]

Commander Liara Portyr is AWESOME. But some other classics are Tatyova, Benthic Druid or Elas il-Kor, Sadistic Pilgrim. I'm also a big fan of Cadira, Caller of the Small. There are tons of great options! - Rachel

[@BusinessSkrub]

Second Elas-il Kor! Super fun card and very easy to build

[@tyego_ewa]

@@commandcastcool, thanks for the ideas!

[@Tiblious]

I came here for the Zada input. It was Valuable Craig. Thank you

[@wedgedhealer737]

The scourge of my playgroup happens to be my Queza auger of agonies deck.

[@jniteshade5352]

Love my Queza deck. It's really powerful for an uncommon and two near infinite combos with the commander make it able to win but the combo cards being 6+ mana mean it's not going to win out of nowhere. I feel like it's a super strong but fair combo deck.

[@bethanygly]

Yoshimaru, first commander I actually built myself and will always hold my heart

[@alexnope1]

I recommend switching Korvold to only foods and no treasures! (or only incidental treasures like Academy Manufactor). Lower power, more flavor, and more internal synergy.

[@teaganbowie2340]

I was working on a "feed the dragon" deck with only food related cards, especially with more food support in the WOE set

[@crowdaddy5179]

Fun story! So my first time playing commander, and mind u I’d only play Friday night draft with my one buddy around eldritch moon and that’s all I knew about mtg. Anyways, I got the gist of commander i knew it was singleton and all that, but I didn’t have an expansive knowledge of the game. I wanted to build monk tribal. Narset was my commander. I sat down with my buddy and two other guys and the one guy pulls out ur-dragon. The ur-dragon player then gunned it for me to the point it was turn 3 or 4 and I was at 12 life while everyone else was at 40. It was so bad as my first commander game my buddy and the other guy was like “dude he’s not even a problem.” And I said multiple times “it’s monk tribal. I just wanted to play peaceful monks.” And the ur-dragon guy said “but he’s playing narset all he needs is one attack and it’s infinite turns.” I didn’t build the deck like that cuz I didn’t know that was a thing, but anyways he let it slip that he’d be killing me his next turn I couldn’t do anything to prevent that so I scooped. Now I play Ghyrson and everyone can kick rocks when they r taking 9+ damage just for trying to cast their commander.

[@keithc.9590]

If I had to name any it would be Zur the Enchanter, specifically the Voltron variant of the deck. With commander being the way it is it is very easy for a turn or two to go by where the Zur player just fishes the best equipment and enchantments from their deck and get to the point where he can just 1 shot you with commander damage

[@kdoggbonez]

I once got a helm of the host on miirym😂 not a good day for the table, then got a terror of the peaks drop with 3 miiryms in play

[@JohnRambo-sj8ri]

Add Koma - uncountreable, unkillable, triggers on every turn. Atraxa 2 - blink it ten times to draw ten cards every time. Tatyova/Aesi/Chulane/Marneus - draw cards for doing nothing.

[@NazoPureChaos]

8:38 "At last, an aura commander!" Uril the Miststalker: *shuffles away quietly*

[@Zemoch93]

This episode made me make a Myrrin deck , thanks for the recommendation guys!

[@commandcast]

Hahaha. Our pleasure!

[@DragonAttack515]

You can play miirym in Tiamat, to play four extra commanders…

[@IneptCardCollector]

This just became my new favorite episode! 1:06:40 Narset is way stronger than I knew!!!

[@jonathanwright1112]

I think one thing to keep in mind is that there are new players who will be approaching these commanders for the first time. So Sythis deck lists might all seem identical and boring after you've played against them 50 times, but someone might just have learned what enchantress is and be super stoked about what to them are novel cards and a new playstyle.

[@ZypherWildfire]

I took apart my Narset deck because it still won too often, and it was supposed to be a fun/unique deck. I built it as Narset Vehicle Tribal (before NeoKamigawa). There were no extra turns or extra combat spells, and a standard amount of removal and protection spells I'd run in any other deck. However, the amount of tokens and mana rock I could get made it so I almost always had a board state, even after a targeted board-wipe. I considered running Kykar, but in an attempt to reduce the number of decks I have, I ultimately took it apart.

[@thriftypsgr]

All of these commanders are also why I like dark steel mutation.

[@RobertTheSmall]

Oubliette/Out of Time/Song of the Dryads/Imprisoned in the Moon are also great ways to kinda get rid of a commander forever, but also try and use responsibly LMAO

[@thriftypsgr]

@@RobertTheSmall when korvold comes out responsibly goes out the window 🤣.

[@thriftypsgr]

@@lunarlight3131 in response I will play dovins veto lmao

[@thriftypsgr]

@@lunarlight3131 dovins can’t be countered lol

[@thriftypsgr]

@@lunarlight3131 it resolves. Also bite me 🤣

[@SmashCentralOfficial]

3:40 im sure everyone heard the cheers during game knights Live. The people STAN Jimmy Wong

[@MentalCrusader]

Would be very interesting to see a salt theme or a stax theme

[@dartagnanwhitney5110]

Loved seeing Mr. Infect/Craig talking about the Miirym deck! I completely love the concept and this deck would totally be accepted in my playgroup. It would make the player the archenemy but still lol

[@ElDocBruh]

I vibe with Jordan wanting to play more and not win.

[@screwthisin]

I love the ads that they produce. Some of them are so well produced that sometimes they outpace the ads from the actual company. Example the Mint Mobile ad.

[@Weird-g3m]

all i see is "commanders you should try out"

[@Mavryck_Tha_Myghty]

😂

[@oberynmartell6781]

"Voltron decks can't really take out more than one player and is a more casual playstyle" Allow me to introduce you to my 1 color Transformers equipment deck, starring Slicer, Hired Muscle.

[@arkanixarcmage]

I just got s sythis a couple weeks ago. Love it! Defense of the heart, into Kond and auramancer. 4 infect creatures and the eldrazi conscription. Works fairly well with the G/W totem lure. Can't wait for a 4 way Sythis duel. Fun stuff. Thanks everyone for the words infect most hated. Hehe! Arcmage

[@calebcook5015]

I built a Narset deck that is based around vehicles and making tokens to crew them. No extra turns, etc. I always have to give that disclaimer when I play it so I don't instantly make 3 enemies.

[@aaroneisenman6873]

I want to build Narset Voltron...I think that would be interesting.....

[@arrowstrike1174]

I read Narsets ability and thought of Adventure cards and cards that benefit from casting stuff from exile. Might try to build that now.

[@nathanielwheeler6074]

My Sythis deck RULES! It also definitely, DEFINITELY sucks... I love playing it just for the power of gaining piles of value for just casting random nonsense (no synergy beyond the fact that they're all enchantments and/or enchantresses). But you're right, the turns just feel like dumping a ton of things on the table and then just passing. Then everyone has to spend ages just reading my mess of a playmat to figure out how to interact with it. The only way the deck wins is if I manage to keep the 5-10 spirits I just made with Hallowed Haunting on the table for a whole rotation, which is a very rare event. Nowadays I mostly just give it to players who are learning the game to ensure they get to cast spells and do stuff (gotta get em hooked on the game somehow)

[@AlwaysGrowing0]

I love enchantress decks but I agree you end up spinning tons of time spinning wheels with no wincons. Yes, you can storm out eventually and there are several infinites you can run. But enchantresses don't have any good wincons that are not infinites. Enchantresses would benefit from something along the lines of if you control x enchantments, you win the game, etc...