Edit: Pinned comment addresses lesbian master doc and further down discussions of hetero-romantic bisexuality. One thing I didn't get into here, but found in my research, is that a lot of folks found out about comp het through the Lesbian Master Doc which was shared on Tumblr and then later on TikTok back in 2018. I didn't really delve into it because the creator of said doc was a teenager when they started it and only in their mid-20s now. I think that it document is very much the kind of thing that helped me when I was a young queer/bi girl online -- so rather than like question *it* I just went back to Rich's essay. This video (as y'all can tell) was something that was half written (well a lot written lol), but then also a pulling together of thoughts and feelings I have been having since the song "good luck, babe" came out. Therefore, it is an incomplete sort of dialogue because I don't think I myself am an expert and I don't have the answers. Especially because some of those questions need to happen in community offline as well as on. I hope this video is a net positive in that dialogue and even though I'm sure some folks will disagree with my video, I hope that we can discuss it with tact and care. xx P Added: Since I've seen this come up a bunch and I think it has made me think about stuff I'll explain more here and then add to the pinned comment. This might be a semi-generational thing, but I have always found the need to dissect bisexuality into more and more specific labels to not often make sense. It felt like rather than understanding that every bisexual person would just have their own individual experience, there was a need to now create another bracket. I do think those brackets are all valuable. Especially when you are still exploring and figuring things out. And at times I would see people say things that felt like ... idk very heteronormative. People who would say they were heteroromantic bisexual and that they only wanted to have sex with the same sex for "fun" and it felt, in my opinion, very belittling. I get we all have preferences and our attractions differ, but I saw a lot of language treating same sex sexual relationships as ... immature and not as serious. And I don't mean like casual. I mean like feeling like it was inherently less meaningful. Versus wanting to have "families" with opposite sex partners. All of which came off as very heteronormative ideas under a queer umbrella. Whenever there was pushback to that, it would then be said that it was valid because bisexuality was a spectrum and that it was all within the bisexual umbrella. In an every day we are individuals and sometimes things happen way--yes absolutely. But since we as bisexual/queer people can still perpetuate heteronormative gender-roles, I found a lot of what I was seeing very sort of uncooked in processing like ... "well why do you see families as only a heterosexual relationship." So that, in a love winded way, is the perspective that I was exposed to those ideas. If this has changed since then, then huzzah. I'm glad to hear it. I just found the lack of unpacking some stuff a little odd. Edit #3 I’ve been learning a lot from people’s good faith pushback and discussion. I have some questions and I’m def going to look into some stuff I wasn’t aware of being. Especially the idea of split attraction outside of ace/aro identities because I think I’m still wrapping my head around that x but I appreciate people’s grace and time in explaining things to me
@MaryamMaqdisi6 ай бұрын
Love you Princess! Thank you for this video, as a sapphic person I love hearing about the diversity of identity and opinion in our umbrella, thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings on this. I'll try to write a comment after I finish watching if I don't forget or get distracted with work. Stay awesome ❤
6 ай бұрын
I am hurting, too. :/ Solidarity is sorely, sorely needed.
@voidify36 ай бұрын
Re the thing about distinctions among the bi umbrella- verilybitchie’s bi vs pan video is great, I figure you might have already seen her stuff but I’m recommending it to everyone reading this too, that video says really insightful things about the different models of queerness behind the bi umbrella vs microlabels. A bunch of her other stuff is also really relevant to the topics of this video
@queegle996 ай бұрын
Queer people can absolutely absorb cisheteronormative ideas, and we do all the time. I can't speak on the posts you saw, of course. But in general, I don't feel like this is a very good example of queers reenacting cisheteronormativity. I wrote a longer comment about this with some extra thoughts btw lol. For one, homoromantic bisexual people also exist. I feel like I've seen that term used just about as much as heteromantic online. For another thing, many people feel a sharp division between sexuality and romance. For heteromantic bisexual people, maybe they just find a particular aspect of gender expression attractive in a manner that the inverse isn't. That's just how attraction works for them! Also, this line of thinking could be (unintentionally) exclusionary towards aromantic people. Aromantic people can be straight, gay, bisexual - whatever. They might not want a serious, 'raise a family' relationship with ANYONE, or they might. I feel like this idea could potentially imply that romance is 'higher' or more desirable than sexuality, instead of just being different...? While there may well be some people using the term "heteromantic bisexual" in a way that covertly implies normative gender/sexuality roles that they've intaken, there are plenty more who are simply using it as a specific descriptor for their queer experience.
@macks63976 ай бұрын
I wrote a lot of my thoughts down as I was watching your video to leave a comment, but I’ve now read your pinned comment as well, and have even MORE thoughts. With talking about dissecting bisexuality even further into different labels/brackets, I absolutely see your point. I think we as humans will always try to do that, get hyper-specific and identify the minutiae of everything. I do see it as valuable, like you, at the very least on a personal and individual level so that we can better understand ourselves. I believe having the language to describe ourselves, our feelings and behaviours, our different aspects of attraction and lack thereof, can lead to more connection and community, not necessarily less. For most of my 20s I felt broken and inhuman because I couldn’t understand why I felt so little connection to the men I dated beyond sexual chemistry and (sometimes) some level of friendship. I thought I was just an unfeeling monster who was using men for my own gratification while being completely incapable of providing them with the love and affection they clearly felt for me. Even having many years of knowing, accepting, and LOVING my queerness, I still felt completely hopeless, and was terrified to date women in case I did it to them too. Then when I learned the term homoromantic, it was like having a piece of my heart click into place. I could actually see and have hope for a future with the kind of love I thought I’d never have. Because I feel more connected to myself, I feel even more connected to the queer community that I love, but also cis-het folks in my life. And because I no longer see myself as ‘defective’ or inhuman, I don’t feel so separate and out of place. By using more specific language, I also have a greater chance to be understood by my community at large. So I would certainly argue that, in sharing the language that helps specify how your experience may differ from others in your group/community, there is some use to the greater community as a whole. The breaking down/bracketing of an identity can broker understanding and connection, but like so many things, it is a double-edged sword. What one person finds connecting, another will find alienating, and then another will find unnecessarily complicated. I can only imagine that when bisexuality became a term/identity to be more specific about the different experiences compared to Lesbians (which from what I understand, all queer/sapphic women were identified as for a period in history), many people found that additional categorisation as unnecessary and divisive. But I’d need to do more research on that before making any definitive claims lol. The types of people you mention who see same-sex/queer relationships as less-than, or just for fun, certainly seem like they have a long road ahead to dismantling not only their internalised heteronormative and comp-het thinking, but also their internalised homophobia/shame about their own attractions. Whether they actually want to do any of that, well, who knows? I can only hope they do more work and come to a better understanding of themselves and the world around them. And I really, sincerely hope they stop hurting the queer women/other queer folks that they seem to see as disposable toys. Their use of an identity we share as a cover for their ignorance and bigotry is upsetting in many ways. But I think I kind of section them off in my head much the same as I do with terfs, racists, ableists, bootlickers etc. Not as in they don’t affect me or that I make ANY excuses for them, or that I don’t actively try to combat their bigotry in every way that I’m able. It’s more that I can recognise that there will always be people who weaponize the language of a community or culture, either intentionally or through ignorance. And sharing one (or sometimes more) aspects of my identity or lived experience with people I so vehemently disagree with drives me closer to the parts of our community that shares my values and encourages & inspires me to interrogate myself and the world around me even more. I hope that long-ass opinion piece of a comment isn’t too preachy. Honestly this is just a fraction of what I have written down. My brain just starts buzzing when I watch your videos! It’s just one of the many reasons I love watching your videos and hearing what you think!!
@princessjellyfish986 ай бұрын
I think you hit the nail on the head with this being an "online" conversation. I think a lot of the people who are fighting for their life to draw these hard lines about who experiences comphet, what words "belong" to who, are very young, and also haven't been in real life queer spaces for long (if at all). Their experience of queer community is defined by these online conversations, and because of how algorithms prioritize negative content, the convos lean negative and adversarial. And like you said it DOES get in the way of community building. It shouldn't be a requirement for people to meet in irl spaces to have positive convos and build queer community, but these socmed apps are not built for that. It's very liberating to remind people "you don't have to argue with people who don't know you." The person making vaguely gender-essentialist posts about how relationships between women are inherently more pure and bi women inherently "center men," may very well be a 17 year old who's never dated anyone 😭 A lot of these debates about comphet and who's allowed at pride and at lesbian bars are happening between people who have never been to pride or to a lesbian bar, and that's ok! But maybe they should slow their roll a bit before they speak. I will say, the people trying to segregate Chappel Roan's concerts were particularly unserious 😂😭 but I digress
@kezia80276 ай бұрын
Only halfway through the video and was about to comment basically this. It really does seem to come from a place of genuine concern, but also naivety and ignorance. Unfortunately, at least from my perspective, is that it seems to be becoming more prevalent each year, and I worry about the effect it is having on younger queer folks who are online far more, just by virtue of the world and how it has changed since I (and presumably you) grew up. I think more videos like this one and other people speaking out and speaking up publicly online, and continuing to do so, is the only real way to combat this attitude, and to try and encourage and foster intersectional, inclusive, respectful ideals and attitudes over these exclusionary, divisive, prescriptive attitudes.
@wiiqii63466 ай бұрын
So real. There are terms and phrases used between different queer people that would make someone online hurl. But also I think a lot of underage queer ppl online forget that the 40 yr old leather butch and bear are not gonna understand a lick of what your saying when your talking about your hot take that would get a bunch of notes on tumblr.
@Jekyllstein_Gray6 ай бұрын
It would also be nice if they were having these discussions in closed forums or something instead of for the public at large to see...
@kezia80276 ай бұрын
@@Jekyllstein_Gray I understand the sentiment, but to me that seems like it would just foster deception and echo chambers, where these harmful ideas are never challenged and may even end up being exacerbated. I know plenty of toxic discord servers, where the moment someone points out behaviour that may be problematic but is "accepted" in the group, they get booted. These insular communities I feel are a MAJOR reason this attitude is becoming more prevalent. People don't change their minds if their ideas never get challenged.
@ChristopherSadlowski6 ай бұрын
I was SHOCKED when I came across the lesbian bar discourse! I know my singular experience isn't data, BUT I've never had a problem at any lesbian bar. There was one a few towns away from me I really liked to go to, especially if I was drinking alone. The vibes were immaculate and it always had a comfortable amount of people where it felt lively but wasn't crowded. I knew I wouldn't get molested there or hit on when I'm just looking to relax. They also played really good music but it was for background ambiance and not trying to blow out the subwoofers. I never even got so much as side eye when I walked in! My guess is the other men who would go there were there for the same reason I was: it was a place we could go to hang out without running through the meat market gauntlet the other clubs and bars were. When I saw people claiming lesbian bars are for lesbians ONLY, as if you have to carry a members only card, my brain fried a little. Now that I know it could have been young people, or people who don't have offline community, it makes more sense. I try to keep in mind that there's so much queer trauma out there and sometimes people can get defensive if things start to feel unsafe or out of their control. If it ever did happen where someone told me my presence was making people uncomfortable I'd leave without thinking twice. I'm not looking to make life more difficult for anyone. But so far that's not happened. Or if I was turned away before even getting in I'd accept it and drink at home or whatever. But, yeah, these comments might be coming from people with no experience with these places at all or makes more sense.
@carpevinum86456 ай бұрын
My family, growing up, was generally gay/lesbian accepting. But i remeber being told, when I raised the topic of bisexuals at 12ish, that they are greedy and need to choose (also, at points that it is a stepping stone to finding the truth about yourself). As an undiagnosed ND kid, I took the instruction and made the choice. I knew I wanted to be a mum one day (unsure how much of this came from me or from the expectations put on me by my small baptist community), and adoption was illegal for queer couples where I was. So I chose to be with a man at the ripe old age of 14ish. I am divorced.
@arih_rih6 ай бұрын
oh wow i’m so sorry. thank you for sharing your experience 💓
@carpevinum86456 ай бұрын
@arih_rih thanks. I'm okay now. Identify as bi. There were a lot of expectations, not just comphet, that led to me making choices for the wrong reasons.
@andrewdiaz35295 ай бұрын
@lif673750% is an outdated number. It was 50% in the US when No fault divorce first became legal; Turns out half of all marriages were only together because it was illegal to not be together. 50% bottomed out over the years, think it's about 30% now
@gilgongaga6 ай бұрын
As a gay cis man, I remember hearing the term comp het to describe a lesbian experience and it radically changed the way I understood my own past. I do think that comp het is something that many if not most queer people understand, to the point that I think it can be moved beyond the perspective of an experience that only women go through, even if the roots are born (like a lot of queer theory) from lesbians during 2nd wave feminism. I think a lot of gay and bi men can be done a very necessary reflection with patriarchy, misogyny, masculinity, and heterosexuality by understanding comp het, provide they understand it and not colonize the idea.
@crashb8006 ай бұрын
Bi man here, and 100% agree. I would actually like to do a bit of word usage and call it compulsory heteronormativity. I think using normativity instead of sexuality in the description better explains how this is not particularly about sexuality and about applying to culture and norms. I absolutely think that men can use this because, at the end of the day, men also suffer under patriarchy. A large reason of why I’ve really only gone after women and only tried to approach women is because it’s a lot less explaining to do because of comp het. Basically, I don’t feel comfortable being out yet. I almost always approach women even though it’s a lot more thrilling for me when I’m being approached because I feel like I have to follow the script due to compulsory heteronormativity. In my mind, compulsory heteronormativity is the various systems, both physical, social, and psychological, that force or highly pressure everyone into following the incredibly narrow, base heterosexual script. It obviously affects queer people, but it even affects straight people too because the heteronormative script doesn’t even take into account all of the versions of being straight that can apply to people. I think anyone can use comp het to describe their experience as long as they use the term approproately .
@EleiyaUmei6 ай бұрын
As an asexual person, duh??? I thought this was the consensus in the queer community...
@gilgongaga6 ай бұрын
@@EleiyaUmei as Princess was saying earlier, a lot of these conversations are had online, and it's important to recognize that a lot of LGBTQ folk just aren't in touch with these talking points. While I do think it's important for those who don't know to learn about these ideas, those of us in the know should be mindful that not everyone is going to be in these conversations.
@EleiyaUmei6 ай бұрын
@@gilgongaga Okay but *where on the internet* are people having these discussions that comphet is a lesbian thing?? I really don't get it
@Thunderthighhighs5 ай бұрын
For real, I've run into so many men (especially bi men) that are able to admit that they're attracted to me but not able to conceptualize me as a valid choice for a romantic partner and it's so fucking frustrating
@charleston17896 ай бұрын
I think also one reason for so many bi-folks ending up in hetero-appearing relationships is because in the world we live in, it’s just easier to find those and they’re MUCH less dangerous to publicly pursue. So possibly a combination of the internal comphet factors and the external ease of access and relatively higher likelihood of finding these relationships because they are the majority.
@haileymorrison83606 ай бұрын
It’s just hard to care a bisexual woman is too scared to do it when all lesbians had to do those things to be with a woman. If you wanted to you would
@emilykawaii1235 ай бұрын
Exactly. And even in a hypothetical world where many lesbians/other sapphics didn't regard bi women with suspicion, the wlw dating pool is a puddle. It is so much harder to find compatible women who you connect with.
@charleston17895 ай бұрын
@@emilykawaii123 definitely!
@natmorse-noland91335 ай бұрын
Absolutely. There are WAY more men attracted to women than there are women attracted to women, so just from a pure math perspective of COURSE most bi women date men. (And the inverse is of course true for bi men.)
@IIxIxIv5 ай бұрын
It's just statistics. My friend is bi and he used a dating app to find his current girlfriend. He was complaining to me that he was expecting some 50/50 split, but there were just way more women in his offerings than men. It makes sense, if eg 1/20 people experiences same sex attraction then from a group of 50 men and 50 women you're going to get 50 women and 2.5 men who are potential candidates. Most of the world is straight.
@animeotaku3076 ай бұрын
You talking about how being bi has the privilege of appearing heterosexual while also coming with its own problems non-bi folks may never consider hit for me. I’m asexual and the whole “you have straight-passing privilege” always makes me think “yeah, and I also have anxiety about dating because everyone seems to want a degree of sexual/physical intimacy I’m uncomfortable with (finding someone who has matching comfort levels as me and clicks for me romantically feels like looking for a unicorn), people assuming that I have something wrong with me for having no interest in sex (doesn’t help that I’m autistic too), and accusations of me lying because I enjoy reading/writing erotic fanfic (even though I have no desire to actually engage in those activities).” And never mind that romantic attraction is also a separate spectrum! It’s exhausting and why I haven’t gotten the guts to attend a Pride event.
@WhatWouldLubitschDo6 ай бұрын
It’s a strange paradox that people who aren’t self aware in their desires get hated on, but ones who have a lot of specific self knowledge get hated on as much or more. I feel we’re sometimes expected to understand microlabels technically, but not dare to inhabit the identities they were coined to describe
@roguecodes6 ай бұрын
I’ve never dated as an ace person because I genuinely despise having to explain myself over and over to people who refuse to get it. I have limited mental energy (don’t we all) and I just don’t have it in me to spend time on dating apps trying to get the point across when I could be enjoying my hobbies or like. Napping.
@dannymarie6 ай бұрын
Very relateable
@acecat27986 ай бұрын
Literally all of this, as an aroace person, especially since sexuality is a complicated thing and people demand you go into the nuances of everything you feel to even halfway believe you, when that would be insanely invasive for anyone else. I end up with a lot of dysphoria, and an uneasy sense that friends who say they're supportive don't really believe me.
@onbearfeet6 ай бұрын
Biromantic demi here. THIS. All of this. The way there's no fully acceptable way to be ace OR bi OR a woman drives me up the wall--especially because everyone who's NOT those things assumes there IS a way to "do it right" and I'm just failing. I'm failing if I read explicit fic and failing if I don't. If I date a man, I'm failing by falling into comphet; if I date a woman, I'm failing by trying too hard; if I don't date at all, I'm just failing. And that's before we get into bar discourse and the fact that, as the product of a family of dysfunctional alcoholics, I don't really enjoy or feel like I belong in ANY kind of bar. Failed again! For what it's worth, though, I've found pride events to be shockingly welcoming. I showed up to my first one in a demi pride T-shirt, holding a homemade bi pride teddy bear, and no one batted an eye. They were just glad I was there and happy to let me pet their dogs.
@catonutt6 ай бұрын
A little personal experience on the having a kid and being a lesbian part: my mom had me when she was 22, she dated my dad very briefly, and had already dated men and women before that. When I was 2 she started dating a woman who she was married to for 17, so I lived with the both of them. My whole life she and everybody else always described her as a lesbian. My mom is 50 now and recently we were talking about the term "queer" (she wanted to know what I think it means, she has recently started reading Judith Butler etc) and she told me that she identifies as queer and maybe as non-binary and that back in her day (and for her personally) identifying as a lesbian was a gender identity even more than a sexuality, and that even though she stopped dating men after a while, she never lost interest in them completely, but lesbian was what best described her way of being in the world. For context, we are white, brazillian, middle class people.
@prozierozie56925 ай бұрын
Your mom sounds dope. We need to have a June smoke out 🚬
@NoxAeterna-wf4ivАй бұрын
But that's kinda lesbian erasure. She felt comfortable with an identity, she is not. While there are genuine women, who are actually part of that identity.
@chevvy42713 күн бұрын
@@NoxAeterna-wf4iv That ismt erasure in any way. Lesbian has had more than one meaning throughout history, and the primary one was a woman who is attracted to women. Even if her mother doesnt fit our current idea of a lesbian, she did in the past and had reason to believe she was correct. And people can always change, or come to different conclusions about themselves later in life. Her personal identity doesn't erase anybody else's, and I'm personally glad to hear of a grown person with children still choosing to get to know themselves better.
@pocketsizedcg6 ай бұрын
As an aromantic, comp het really resonated with my lived experiences
@jospinner11835 ай бұрын
Absolutely. Amatonormativity is a helluva drug.
@tallglassofmilk78095 ай бұрын
honestly, still struggling with that rn, it'll get you😭
@cabbagenut6 ай бұрын
I've experienced several unhealthy sapphic relationship dynamics and it's been made clear to me that I'm not permitted to talk about those experiences. There's this sort of sacred "We're too soft and feminine for harm" vibe in sapphic spaces that is toxic, and has the tendency to lead to side-taking, defensive othering, and grossly turns into bigotry in really bad spaces. An attack on any one woman is seen as a bad-faith attack on the whole. I'd rather hang out with masc queers usually. Call-outs might be just as catty in either space, but it's more likely to blow over with time in the masc queer spaces I've been in. I think queer men collectively have sort of accepted that some queer men are just trash, but because of the pressures of comp-het queer women feel more need to police their spaces, collective image, and relationships? Regardless, I never hear about how problematic the gay bars in my city are, but the lesbian bars all face scandals and get closed within a few years. Maybe a bit less hyper-vigilance and a bit more self reflection is in order... and maybe a bit more in the other spaces. Thank you for your nuanced takes, Princess Weekes. As usual you are taking the time to see the whole picture and I appreciate it.
@setheus6 ай бұрын
I know exactly what you mean!! Sapphic purity culture toxicity can be so cruel and targeted it feels like Mean Girls. I think that's a big reason why Adrienne Rich would use comp-het alongside bisexual and ace women too, because we have to learn how to deconstruct systems of harm, not just who is visible doing it. I've also seen it cross weird in the subconscious of more terf-aligned folks? Like it's all the unspoken "we're too soft/pure for harm" but the second someone in sapphic spaces transitions- or even just accidentally passes as a guy because they're skinny- they were ~always~ so mean and toxic etc etc, and the same for petty othering of trans women entering sapphic spaces. It's a kind of recreation of patriarchy that terfs make the silhouette of- the approximation to masculinity is seen as approximate to the capability of harm and violence.
@TwelvetreeZ6 ай бұрын
My sister's first queer relationship was pretty bad - her partner was controlling, making my sister's eating disorder more intense, and when my sister dumped them they refused to accept it, knocking on her door at midnight claiming they would kill themselves if she didn't let them in. My sister felt like she couldn't criticise them, until I pointed out they had grossly violated her boundaries. She's had much better relationships since and has been with her current (lovely) gf for about three years, thank god. But she was lucky. I admit, I wasn't fully aware that lesbian relationships could be so terrible, but as I said at the time - if my sister was with a man who acted so controlling, we would see it as abusive (or a precursor to it) immediately
@stephe15066 ай бұрын
@@setheusthese are exactly the discussions I appreciate while trying to hold onto my recently uncloseted bi identity but gaving not been physically intimate with any afab people I gave been quite impressionable ehile working things out. You and the original commenter have just helped me see clearly some of the rhetoric coming from cis lesbian spaces that has been subtly and overtly affecting me to the point I wasnt sure (being single) that I should pursue any future relationship with a cis man and should focus on exploring sapphic partnership because they were presented as safer, less toxic, better
@lisab456 ай бұрын
It’s very lonely being a minority. There are no guidelines, rituals, collective wisdom of red flags like in straight femininity. When women talk to each other about the men they’re dating, the other women are quick to find toxic behaviours. But when you’re a queer woman, not only are you alone-you are idealised, which makes abuse and toxic behaviour so much easier to sweep under the rug.
@louc.67356 ай бұрын
I'm a multigender butch that's been assaulted by a woman. It's constantly annoying to be in wlw spaces not only because of the insistence that sapphic relationships are pure, but the fact that it always defaults to femmes being pure. If anyone ever wants to take your abuse as a lesbian seriously, you have to be less butch than your abuser, and it's exhausting. Butches are treated like we're inherently more violent and predatory and unfeeling because we're masculine. All of the pure sapphic uwu stuff is so clearly femme4femme and I am so tired.
@Jekyllstein_Gray6 ай бұрын
I once unironically said the word "perceptualize," so I'm not going to judge you for "compulsitory."
@FairyBogFather6 ай бұрын
I love both of these words hahaha
@Mighty_Atheismo6 ай бұрын
We are all stuck in a labyrinth of complicated conjugate
@crimsonlastname12345 ай бұрын
@ville__ what the fuck
@sophiaec26076 ай бұрын
I think the whole "comphet is lesbian exclusive" / "comphet is experienced by all queers" thing comes from a semantic misunderstanding. Every lesbian I've seen use comphet as a lesbian exclusive experience is using the word to describe the insane pressure to have hetero attraction as a woman (attraction to men), bc not having any attraction to men as a woman is a very niche and isolating experience (some aces can also relate), so I understand why we want a word to describe this specific thing. However, In all the discussions I've seen, it's almost always people not realising they're arguing semantics rather than their actual points. Like lesbians are going "of course non lesbians dont experience comphet" meaning of course they dont experience having to force themselves to have opposite-gender attraction, but bi people are going "of course we experience comphet" meaning of course they experience the pressure to be fully heterosexual and not have any same-gender attraction. Personally, (I'm a lesbian), I will use comphet to describe my experience of having to force myself to be attracted to men before I realised I was a lesbian, but I know that's not the actual meaning and won't police anyone else using it to describe their experiences with heteronormativity.
@ruleofthree995 ай бұрын
i think you hit the nail on the head - it seems like one of those debates where no one is quite agreeing on what “comphet” means. i always heard it as that “forcing yourself to be attracted to men” you described (i’m bi), but i think different people are just interpreting the term (and chappel’s song) differently.
@irenanovotna3645 ай бұрын
I agree completely! For me, as a lesbian who only recently came out, comphet is a really important part of my experience - because I did genuinely believe I was into men. And I feel like comphet is a really specific and important part of the lesbian experience for many of us. We need words to describe it and it's very useful. However, comphet can also mean the pressure of only dating the opposite sex when you're bi/dating at all when you're ace and those experiences are also completely valid. The thing is tho, lesbians are correct in saying bisexuals don't experience comphet - because they don't experience it the way lesbians mean it. But then again, bisexuals do in fact experience comphet - just with their own definition. I feel like it'd help if we had a more specific word for it, bc the problem really is just semantics
@cenzured60045 ай бұрын
i mean, true enough, but also, lesbians aren't the only ones that experience comphet in that way - ace and aro women also experience that. i think making the term comphet to be about lesbians and lesbians only is kinda silly when it doesn't affect only them and acting like just because the way lesbians experience comphet is different to a lot of queer women means that comphet as a term should be used by lesbians only is very close-minded and only serves as a way to further alienate lesbians from the queer community when there are already issues with how much wlw media is produced and consumed vs mlm media and how few lesbian spaces like bars and clubs actually exist compared to gay spaces. also, i'd say that what bi women experience is also comphet, only the way they experience it is different because of their attraction to men. hell, it could even be argued that men themselves also experience it, but in a very different way tied to the men's role in patriarchy. and i'm not saying any of this to diminish the way lesbians experience comphet! i think it's just important to not act like the lesbian identity is the only identity that is uniquely special, because all of them are, really, and acting like it is perpeturates a lot of problems that exist in lesbian communities, including the purity culture and lack of media and spaces focused on sapphics.
@sophiaec26075 ай бұрын
@@cenzured6004 I didn't say it should only be a lesbian term, if you read my comment I was outlining how the discourse around the term is often just a semantic miscommunication. Personally, I would like a word that describes the specifically lesbian experience of not being attracted to men when you're not a man - (and I did say this is something some ace people relate to too, just not all ace people because some do still experience attraction, so that's why I said some aces can relate but didn't just say "aces" like I did "lesbians", because it's not all aces whereas it is all lesbians if that makes sense)
@cenzured60045 ай бұрын
@@sophiaec2607 i feel like i should have made it clearer in my og reply what i meant lol. turns out making a comprehensive and long youtube comment is kinda hard. like wow, would it have killed me to break up that second sentence into shorter ones? tbh, i was more replying to the ideas you were outlining than your personal thoughts on the topic. like the whole discourse of lesbians who treat comphet the way you described and conveniently forget that ace people exist. sorry that i came across as being antagonistic towards you. also, yeah, i get what you mean by your words about ace people! i think that the reason i felt the need to mention the aces specifically is because 1. it was a very brief part of your og comment and i felt the need to emphasize it further because 2. i myself am aro-ace afab non-binary person and have read and felt understood in lesbian masterdoc, and also have talked with both my lesbian and female aro-ace friends about our experiences with comphet previously (especially how similar they are). as for creating a new word, i'm personally all for it. i am a philology major after all ;^). but for now, i suppose the practical thing would be just specifying that what someone is talking about is the lesbian comphet.
@mirandahynes49916 ай бұрын
on one hand ive been Constantly invalidated as a bisexual person, when ive dated lesbians they really don’t get why or how im bi, and when ive dated men, it’s worse- they either straight up dont believe me or treat it as a fetish (like ive been told that making out with girls etc wouldnt be cheating) and that there isnt a serious threat of me dating a woman. at the same time, i get frustrated seeing my bi girl friends getting constantly stuck in comp het patterns. it’s not from a place of looking down on them its just like, ive been there! you deserve better, at the very least dating guys who respect your queer identity. its an emotional conversation for a lot of people and i totally get why
@mrscarstairs6 ай бұрын
As a biromantic asexual, I personally think the concept of “comp het” really helped me/will continue to help me in understanding my identity. I’ve always views it as the societal pressure to conform into the ideal of heterosexuality. Furthermore,I’ve always felt that there was an racial aspect to this; as a wasian with the ~rarer~ Asian father, comp het to me also encompasses the pressure/entitlement of white men to WOC, and more specifically for me, asian women. I guess for me, comp het can’t necessarily be extricated from my identity as a wasian. I also see comp het relating to my asexuality and how I feel men feel entitled to my body and my sexuality. I think to try to define and keep comp het to mean only one thing and apply to only one group is not only futile but also missing places for garnering solidarity between groups. I’ve found this is a problem in other (online) space where groups want to keep their advocacy only for “their group”, ignoring the people of intersecting identities and also opportunities for solidarity.
@amandafinn19426 ай бұрын
The racial aspect is interesting to consider! I'm mixed too and I think my experiences with men's entitlement go the opposite way (BIPOC men act more entitled). Thanks for sharing.
@sillybillybear506 ай бұрын
As a bisexual who never had a "boy crazy" phase growing up (but did have a "girl crazy" one growing up), who (at this point in time) wants to spend the rest of my life with a woman, who felt confused about why she didn't feel attracted to men the way "others" did but knew she was still attracted to them, who felt a need to prove how sapphic I was for SO many years /because/ I didn't want to feel invalidated as a queer person, who couldn't understand what the internal conflict I was experiencing was... Thank you for sharing how comphet isn't only for lesbians. EDIT: I only started dating men last year in a nonserious way at the age of 26 and haven't felt comfortable at the idea of having sex with a man, yet am also aware I have had crushes and, recently, been attracted to men physically. Not sure if that promotes anything "problematic" like the folks discussed in the video. I am aware feeling my "being with a man = invalidating me coming into my queerness" gut feeling /could/ be comphet... But there's also a certain dynamic I want from a sapphic relationship, one that makes me feel whole, when I see it represented in specific fictional sapphic relationships or project them onto specific fictional "straight" ones. I dunno. The term "lesbian" never sat right with me and I can't really explain away the moments I feel attracted to men. I guess it just be like that. EDIT 2: The experience of only being validated once you've "had the experience" is - YEP EDIT 3: "fetishizing sapphic relationships as being inherently healthier" - YEEEEEP, a big part of why I didn't date men in college, god bless lil me and the lack of conversations like this
@jadecastle82255 ай бұрын
I had a similar experience and while I still ID as bisexual, I realized a lot of my 'crushes' on men were actually gender envy, not sexual or romantic interest. It clarified a TON and now I see myself as nonbinary (and a lot more playful with taking elements I enjoy from masculinity), and the attraction I DO feel towards men became far less confusing or muddled. (It also become much less common LOL.) Just wanted to share in case that might resonate with you, could have saved me *so much time* if I had heard the idea earlier myself.
@sillybillybear505 ай бұрын
@@jadecastle8225It does, thank you for sharing!
@bigaliceenergy75786 ай бұрын
I now identify differently, but when I was younger and felt myself bisexual- comp-het was not only something I dealt with feeling the need to stay with a cheating jerk that had that gross all bi/pans are unfaithful mentality, but in how my attraction to women was then treated. I wasn't a bi girl with a cheating boyfriend, I was a potential unicorn hunter. My attraction and connection with other queer women then became seen as an extension of my boyfriend's attraction towards women within our social group. I found out months after the fact (speaking of facts no idea if this was true or she was just wasted) one of the friends of mine he'd slept with told me she was more interested in me than him and thought my "jealousy", not a totally reasonable enforcement of boundaries with the both of them, and complete lack of attraction to her (and a continuous decline in attraction to him) ruined the possibility of a thruple or something. Comp-het applies not simply bc I was a queer woman in a shitty relationship with a straight man, but because this relationship began to center him entirely. I would have to agree with whatever he said about whoever he was about to cheat on me with so he could have an excuse to gaslight me, or disagree bc we didn't share the same taste in women and then find out he'd fucked around with her anyway because I was such a bitch ( bc as we all know, if not horny for woman, why would I be around them? Or something I still don't get it) I also think it becomes reductive to limit "comp-het" to lesbians specifically, not simply to the exclusion bi/pan folks, but also ace or aro folks, or even trans folks that date a cis someone of the same gender. Comp-het is informed by hetero normative standards, and as these standards change or evolve, so must the vocabulary used to discuss it. There is nothing more or less compulsory heterosexual to questioning a trans lesbian dating a cis woman being different from a cishet relationship ( still see this a ridiculous amount) and applying some kind of diagnostic nonsense to why a divorced woman has no interest in sex or romance. Different "isms" as you say but inherently all coming back to the bio essentialist foundations of complementarianism that inform hetero normativity especially in "the west". ( i do not care if i spelled that correctly) This conversation is not simply "online", it is the loud obnoxious creatins with zero boundaries who have co-opted queer theory in the same way abusive women co opt feminist theory. They do not care about helping others.They do not care about the future.They do not care about the past. They care about being correct, and have tied their morality to it. It doesn't make these folks irredeemable, almost everything on the internet is done for attention- but it does reveal themselves as those who want to craft a community in their own image, instead of embracing the one that is already real.
@lordtette6 ай бұрын
It's new to me but I've heard of women back-dooring a man to get with their gf. Mainly you hear about it from the perspective of straight people.
@jospinner11835 ай бұрын
As a former unicorn that was hunted, you're not alone in that unhealthy relationship dynamic. I was a third in two different MF relationships, both for a very limited amount of time, back when I was in my 20s. In both situations, the boyfriend/husband was the one who wanted a side-piece and _thought_ it would be hot to watch his girlfriends perform lesbianesque sexuality for his pleasure. Instead, I (the Sapphic-leaning bisexual woman that I am) tended to be far more interested in the girlfriend/wife, one of whom was genuinely bisexual and left her asshole boyfriend pretty quickly. The married couple split up eventually too, and the wife became a good friend of mine. (My crush on her went nowhere because it turned out she was actually straight.)
@jospinner11835 ай бұрын
@@lordtette I suspect that is the perspective of a man whose girlfriend left him for the unicorn when he turned out to be an asshole who just wanted an excuse to cheat. Or at least, I've seen that happen before.
@lieeeleeee6 ай бұрын
As a 19 year old unfortunately chronically online bisexual who has been maybe too frustrated by the good luck babe discourse for the past month I’m so excited to watch this video and be brought back down to earth a little, to gain some more perspective. I also don’t have tiktok, so I’m interested to see what the discussion has been like there because one thing I know if twitters bad, tiktok is going to be hellish. I wouldn’t say I’ve been apart of the discourse so much as I’ve been watching it evolve and ranting about how annoying it is to friends in dms. I’m sure I’ll have a lot more thoughts after I’ve finished.
@annabelle46556 ай бұрын
As an asexual/aromantic woman, finding the concept of comp het (on that fabled Lesbian Masterdoc) was so helpful in condensing my complicated feelings of wanting to be desired by men but not at all desiring and confirming my own sexuality. Learning about comp het was actually vital to me in accepting myself and to stop trying to force an attraction to men - im a bit baffled why this term would only apply for lesbians when all queer women are pressured into heterosexuality....but maybe his video will change my mind and provide some good nuance :) Edit: thank you yes heteronormativity is the word i was looking for. While i def can understand lesbian (or any identity) experiences with comp het can be lesbian specific, i still think that comp het is just super useful understanding to all of us dealing with heteronormativity. There is always more overlap in the real world anyways than online spaces allow... Also good point to bring up that sapphic spaces often can repeat toxic hetero relationship dynamics, some ppl have not truly deconstructed from that. I also think the weird gold star purity in these spaces often results from just the baseline historical 2nd wave fem and the gender essentialism that they have not truly rejected. A lot of the biphobic stuff when u really look is just...gender essentialism again. The constant biphobic discourse coming back like every year really is disheartening tho ❤️ (i empathize....the undying ace discourse) bc like guys we have bigger fish to fry!!! Much much bigger fish!!
@ChrisBrooks346 ай бұрын
Not the TW for cringe tiktok takes. Cause on the one hand that sounds kind of stupid, but on the other hand people will have some of the wildest takes on tiktok and you need to be ready for that
@Jekyllstein_Gray6 ай бұрын
What a world we live in, where that's a legitimate mental health hazard...
@rottenisee27516 ай бұрын
cognito hazard
@polarknight8565 ай бұрын
I literally deleted my account because of the chronically online queer discourse 😂 at least it stopped my tiktok addiction
@izziekelly47286 ай бұрын
I also stumbled into that video on lesbian romances that you mentioned offhand! Was super validating to hear you navigate a similar web of emotions as a fellow bi person who ultimately really appreciated the video as an avid sapphic romance reader, but also struggled with the way certain things were spoken about. I remember some really interesting and valuable conversation happening in the comments as well - it goes to show how sharing our honest, if imperfect or untidy, opinions can open up the doors to insightful conversations nonetheless, as long as we respect one another. And your ultimate conclusion is so powerful, we have so much in common with our fellow queer people that its a disservice to ourselves to stay in our label-based, insular bubbles out of fear. Its vulnerable to go beyond these bubbles because we open ourselves up to being mischaracterized, misunderstood, or our experiences flattened by those who are ignorant or prejudiced, but how do we create queer solidarity if we don't at least try to have these conversations? To give each other grace and to respect each other even when our lived experiences conflict is so important.
@13realmusic6 ай бұрын
I think Chappell Roan might be a lesbian now like Reneé Rapp making a mid to early career realization. Her bisexuality was/is valid, but I’m super excited for both of those artists to explore that more.
@stephe15066 ай бұрын
I cant help but wonder if Chappell will feel intense pressure to only choose visibly queer relationships with people who aren't cis men in future because of the narratives of her fanbase who would no doubt feel "let down" or something similar due to biphobia though. In the end it is up to her
@brightc17414 ай бұрын
Like Renee, Chappell has now fully confirmed that she's a lesbian! As a lesbian (and former bisexual who realized she was comphet) myself, I'm also really happy to see both of them work through finding their identities! It's validating to see that we're not alone in this experience. Also, I do agree with you that our labels are valid at any point in our journey of self-discovery, and it's completely okay to change them while acknowledging the past!
@kezia80276 ай бұрын
As someone who has been secure in their bisexuality for ~15 years now, almost NO ONE has taken my bisexuality seriously. Basically everyone either thought I was "just gay and not ready/willing to admit it" or straight but ""bi-curious" or "confused"'. Even close friends almost never took me seriously. Basically the only people who took me seriously, LGBTQIA or otherwise - were other Bisexuals, Asexuals, and other doubly marginalized LGBTQIA folks. Men, Women, Straight, Gay, none of them take bisexuality seriously.
@chelseashift6 ай бұрын
I'm so confuzzled by this. I've been secure in my bisexuality for a year or two now, my (straight) partner accepts me, but a) I suppose I'm straight-passing and b) this year I got two of my first "are you actually bisexual???" questionings from my sister and a classmate. Like at the time I just brushed it off, because yes maybe I don't look like the typical alt person (I'm a brown woman) but like... is this that widespread of a thing in the queer community? (I don't interact with the queer community on an active basis myself, I have queer friends but am not in explicitly queer spaces because Idk where to find one + if i want to find one).
@eldritchtourist6 ай бұрын
@chelseashift It seriously depends on where you live and what social bubble you're in. Some people have pretty horrible individual experiences. The wider online discourse can be pretty damn bad. But it's also very possible to be living somewhere and interacting in queer social groups where you just don't run into this that much (or at the very least, people don't screw with you like that to your face). I've gotten lucky for most of my life, but I guess I'm also in queer artist/writer spaces that are pretty erotica driven and sex positive, so the sexuality in bisexuality is pretty easy to wear on my sleeve in what I like and what I talk about. Being a trans man married to a nonbinary person probably also helps, HA.
@MisshapenDeformity6 ай бұрын
I've been out as bi for the same amount of time and I completely agree. I've dated more men than women, so when I date a woman, my family (friends are cool) are like whuhhh?
@autumntaylor25335 ай бұрын
@kezia8027 see, this has always been crazy to me because I feel like I know so many more bi people, even from when I was in middle school, than I know people who only use the lesbian/gay labels. Like, obviously they exist, all of my friends (including my gf) are bi!
@wildmarjoramdieselpunk63965 ай бұрын
Yup. It’s hard to join the gay community when they won’t let you join. I was told in the 90s you couldn’t “ride the fence”. I think it’s different now, but maybe it isn’t. :/
@JessieGender15 ай бұрын
AHH I THINK YOU'RE ONE OF THE MOST AMAZING PEOPLE ON EARTH TOO
@A-Saxy-Bard6 ай бұрын
Great video! I part of comp het that i think gets overlooked is that theres a lot of aspects of historical ableism as well. Practices like Ugly Laws were steeped in racist, heteronormative, and ableist ideology, and I'd highly recommend anyone read into their history. Happy disability pride month!
@DilutedH2SO46 ай бұрын
Happy disability pride month :)))
@TinyGhosty6 ай бұрын
Another angle of comp het overlapping with disabilities is autistic masking. Being autistic made it difficult for me to unlearn comp het because it was also unlearning masking as well. Finally made it tho🧡🤍💖
@WhatWouldLubitschDo6 ай бұрын
@@TinyGhostythank you for bringing this up! I’ve definitely thought about the overlap between gender performance and masking, but failed to think it through to sexuality before. Now that you’ve pointed it out, it almost seems obvious 🤯
@OliviaWood146 ай бұрын
@@TinyGhosty yeah, until I realised I'm neurodivergent and started unmasking, I never even considered I could be anything other than just straight... and one of my mothers is trans and a lesbian 🤦♀️
@crumbsintopebbles6 ай бұрын
Comphet is a very real thing that affects (100%) gay people. Especially back in the day, though obviously it still does. The issue begins when it's used to dismiss any *genuine* opposite-sex attraction an otherwise Queer person might have.
@juliannehannes116 ай бұрын
It's still affect gay people myself included
@WhatWouldLubitschDo6 ай бұрын
I even think that to a smaller degree it’s unhealthy for the straights too, because they’re often pushed to assume themselves instead of knowing themselves. It’s just a bad, repressive system that comes down harder on some than others, and in a number of different ways.
@elvirieltina1746 ай бұрын
Not all gay people
@crumbsintopebbles6 ай бұрын
@@juliannehannes11 I know, I'm not denying that. I'm just saying it was worse in past centuries.
@janmelantu74906 ай бұрын
I’m constantly surprised that we haven’t gotten past the perennial discourse. Like I thought we had finally started being normal about bi women’s str8 boyfriends (also the subtle sexism never talking about bi men’s str8 girlfriends). But nope, we can never seem to learn. Personally, I’ve just completely lost patience for any kind of discourse that tries to separate queer people from each other. So many queer people say ACAB and then immediately turn around and start policing our community.
@princbubblegum6 ай бұрын
omg i remember hearing good luck, babe for the first time and really liking it, going on tiktok (ik, my first mistake) to see what people were doing with it, and just being thrown in the deep end of an apparent discourse between lesbian and bi woman 🙄 it made me feel guilty as a lesbian seeing some bi women get dragged for relating to the song 😭
@chandraa53336 ай бұрын
This is part of the reason I swore off tiktok. People are so un-serious, lack basic nuance, and are usually like 15.
@princbubblegum6 ай бұрын
@@chandraa5333 truue i always have to remind myself that a lot of these comments are probably from teenagers that don’t know any better
@GraysonFuerstenberg5 ай бұрын
you really shouldnt feel guilty
@kymur92475 ай бұрын
@@chandraa5333that's so real. Online takes are very THIS IS BAD or GOOD bruh like i saw that ppl say that chappell album is THE WORST and full of skips. Like just say you have a different music taste and you don't have to say it's literally the worst thing you've ever heard. I'm not interested in Tay swift but I'm not gonna say her music is bad
@user-lp3xt3lw8i5 ай бұрын
as a lesbian, i am always tired of the online queer discourse. in all of the lesbian bars and spaces i have been to, they have been inclusive to all sexualities and genders. a space that is not inclusive of these things is a place i would like to avoid and is inherently not queer to me. i have known lesbians who date trans mascs, trans women, non binary people, and obviously bi women. it is always so shocking to me when this discourse pops up because my experience in the real world is full of inclusive lesbians. if people have different experiences, i would be interested to know where they are located. while i realize that obviously some lesbians may chose not to date bi women for biphobic reasons, i have heard some bi women talking about how like you mention, they would have sex with women but not date them. it would be so reductive for me to believe that all bi women feel that way like how it would be ludicrous for me to not date bi women from singular bad experiences. when i got more involved in the queer community and started reading queer theory and engaging with queer history i became a lot more open to the nuances of identity and i think a lot of people could benefit from queering their world view.
@daniellelicht50935 ай бұрын
Inclusive in the sense that they’re tolerant, but how many lesbians do you know that date bi women? Be friends with them, maybe, but not date. In my experience, a lot of lesbians are biphobic. I know it’s a no-go to generalize a marginalized group, but I also think it’s kinda dismissive to ignore the reality of many bi people. And to be fair, straight/bi women have a long history of being male-centered so I sometimes understand where lesbians are coming from, I just think they go too far.
@norsegodoflove5 ай бұрын
yeah, the discourse that consistently paints us as "villains" because we dare to not like men is so far removed from reality
@MK-jb5sj5 ай бұрын
@@daniellelicht5093 Is this from your actual experience, or online discourse? I am bi and my partner is a lesbian. I have another partner (a guy), and we have lesbian friends and are in lesbian spaces frequently. Nobody has ever been weird about it.
@daniellelicht50935 ай бұрын
@@MK-jb5sj I can already tell you’re trying to be dismissive with your first question, but yes this is my actual experience, including real life and the thousands of biphobic comments online. I think we’re at the point of history where we can’t dismiss everything on social media as a loud minority.
@user-lp3xt3lw8i5 ай бұрын
@@daniellelicht5093 most of my experience of dating has been with bi women and my current partner was bi when i met her (and identified this way for the majority of our relationship). most of the lesbians i know have at some point in their life dated someone who is pan or bi. i feel like because being bi is much more common than a lesbian, i don’t know many people who excluded them from their dating pool. this comment is not meant to ignore peoples real life experiences and i am sorry that you have had bad experiences with lesbians. it is just interesting to me that this discourse continues to be talked about with seemingly no conclusion when in my own life, the lesbians i have met seem to be far different that the discourse paints.
@luckyyuki6 ай бұрын
One thing that I think could be talked about more in the bi/pan discourse is that we live in a monogamous society that largely expects people to "settle down" and that often makes it difficult for bi/pan people to discuss their sexuality since society may ignore individuals' past for their present.
@siriuslysnazzy6 ай бұрын
This! I'm a bi cis woman and my fiance is a pan cis man. While we are out to friends, I am hesitant to bring up my sexual identity to family because I feel it will either open a can of worms with invasive questions, or not be taken seriously.
@Wuffskers5 ай бұрын
actually a great point about how monogamy can kinda inform a lot of biphobic tendencies, not to say bi/pan people can't be monogamous, but the way in which we as a society actually discuss and think about monogamy can seem very biphobic
@phi47212 күн бұрын
Yeah, it's ok that society expects people to settle down
@stillyourgoth58416 ай бұрын
I am a Transgender Lesbian and feeling isolated from greater Sapphic culture has done considerable damage to my mental health. As a result, and because of basically all my partners being Bi, tend to be extremely vocal for Bi/Pan inclusion. For me, what is important is women and femme aligned folks who love women and fighting for the right to and acceptance of loving women. If that is you, you are my sister and I support you and believe you belong in spaces with me.
@shemamaonmymia6 ай бұрын
s tier youtuber talks about f tier tiktok discourse (i am sat. in my seat. love ur work princess!)
@kaitibeeps58875 ай бұрын
"what matters is taking care of the people around us" i think this is the most important thing! like, at the end of the day all sapphics (and queer people in general) have more in common with each other than we do with cis/het folks. i know that for me as a lesbian, the antidote to a lot of confusion and hurt feelings i've experienced regarding infighting over labels and exact definitions has been assuaged by putting time into developing relationships with other queer people in person and one-on-one online. and, like, at the end of the day i might not agree with someone's definitions or labels, but that's okay. the sun will explode one day and consume the earth. we can still be good to each other today. i think inter-community discussions can feel very serious and extremely life-or-death and quickly escalate to unproductive heights because so much of what we as queer people have IS stuff we've fought very hard for. we're used to seeing very real danger everywhere, to our ability to simply exist being debated, to our rights often non-existent or in peril. we are constantly poised to steel our hearts against both casual and pointed cruelty and oppression -- our hackles are already up! of course our impulse is often to bare our teeth at each other! but if we can meet each other in good faith and as peers, even if in the end we don't like or agree with each other, we can enrich each others understanding of our own community and strengthen our bonds within it. (which is not to say that "all ppl are valid and you should play nice with terfs and jerks and people who would sell their community out for a pat on the head" but rather that while it's understandable that our fights amongst ourselves can get ugly, they don't always need to, and that's something we can actively work toward. which is encouraging to me!) this was an interesting video! i've always interpreted "comp-het" to encompass all queer folks because i think that cis/het socialization is real, and it makes sense as a term that would be applicable to diverse orientations. i liked learning more about the history and context! i can see where arguments come from, and as a lesbian i understand being protective over terms that i consider to be only applicable to us, but i personally think this being inclusive does not diminish its impact or confuse the meaning in any way.
@TBNOLA6 ай бұрын
Im a black non-binary trans person who often presents masc....I have experienced dv from women I have dated and also how my experience of abuse was not believed because of my race and more masculine gender presentation....i know a number of masc presenting people who have experienced the same thing and our abuse gets ignored cuz their is this idea that more femme presenting non-black people are always the victims of abuse and never perpetrators. It causes us to not want to engage with our own community because our safety was ignored. Im now with someone who respects me as a black trans person and will do the work to examine assumptions about me because I present more masc. My partner also identifies as a proud lesbian and has most definitely has been supportive of if I decide to fully transition to a man as I go through my gender affirming journey. Basically, shit has nuance. Like you said....people are people and whatever ism they have tells us nothing about their moral code.
@Man-ej6uv5 ай бұрын
i agree, i have been abused by women throughout my life as a masc person and no one takes it seriously
@ghostie61906 ай бұрын
I am a lesbian and i have previously identified as a bisexual because of comp het. And i fully think that is an experience any other queer person can experience. Yes it will be different for each identity but also for each person. I have so much respect for bi ppl and i have friends who previously ided as lesbian and now id as bi. Idk i guess what i focus on is listening to people's experiences and giving them the respect every human is due. I also know many bi people who have met their long term partners and they have expressed the struggle they have with being assumed or ppl claiming they're just straight. And all i can do is listen and let them know that i will always support them and know they are queer and that being in a long term relationship with the opposite perceived gender doesn't take their identity away. And i also love knowing that some of the cis het men who are dating queer bi ppl have expressed that they dont see their partners as straight (or cis). Like i know that one friends husband disclosed to them that he would support them if they ever made the decision to go on hormones and any other medical transition. Like that kind of care and love to me shows that this person has really found someone who loves and respects them fully, and i love that.
@Runey166 ай бұрын
Thank you so much for the great video, Princess! There's room enough for all of us. I hope your recovery from surgery is complication-free and you get lots of good rest with some good books to keep you company.
@thatoneinternetgirl79656 ай бұрын
As a lesbian who’s had some great discussions with my ace sister about our experiences with comphet and how they were similar and different, it always feels like such an unserious online take to say comphet is for lesbians only
@time-is-restored6 ай бұрын
'the fact that bisexuals and asexuals find connection and sameness [with the lesbian history of activism] doesn't flatten lesbianism, it only emphasises why their history and their lived experience in the present is important' !!!!!! i really liked this whole video, but that's a quote that makes me want to jump up and down on the spot and like, paint it on a banner or something. lesbians' rich history of theory and activism is a net positive for EVERYONE, and is in no way cheapened by their observations resonating with non-lesbians. if anything, that should be proof of how solid the work is -- decades later, comphet is still a term people find both insightful and useful! its kind of like, also, i think the point you mentioned about queer identity being both social and political labels really puts a lot of the classic pride arguments into context. maybe a (theoretical, perfectly) 'passing' bisexual woman isn't impacted by homophobia socially, but she still absolutely is politically. and even if there are sometimes times when i want to speak specifically to aro people, bc i think there'll be the least amount of friction between our povs, that doesn't mean that amatonormativity doesn't ALSO encourage queer people to stay in unhealthy, toxic relationships rather than accept being single. we are never that far apart from one another's experiences, even if discourse online would frame everything as the most extreme of all 'either or' 'pick a side' battles.
@aricheec77225 ай бұрын
@@time-is-restored i like the sentiment here but every community has its flaws. don’t be ahistorical- the consequences of lesbian separatism still resonate through the queer community, and this whole situation is an excellent example of its impact.
@time-is-restored5 ай бұрын
@@aricheec7722 hiya, can i ask what about my comment was ahistorical? i didn't intend to make any claims about queer history, just talk a bit about how we don't need to pretend like we don't have differences in order to also accept our similarities. thanks!
@rabnerd286 ай бұрын
The day someone told me that comphet was a lesbian only experience was the day I decided not to engage with any queer discourse anymore, online or otherwise.
@EleiyaUmei6 ай бұрын
I never heard about that till now - I thought the (majority of the) queer community agreed that this can be experienced by everyone...
@sophiaec26076 ай бұрын
I think this comes from a semantic misunderstanding. Every lesbian I've seen use comphet as a lesbian exclusive experience is using the word to describe the insane pressure to have hetero attraction as a woman (attraction to men), bc not having any attraction to men as a woman is a very niche experience (some aces can also relate), so I understand why we want a word to describe this specific thing. However, In all the discussions I've seen, it's always people not realising they're arguing semantics rather than their actual points. Like lesbians are going "of course non lesbians dont experience comphet" meaning of course they dont experience having to force themselves to have opposite-gender attraction, but bi people are going "of course we experience comphet" meaning of course they experience the pressure to be fully heterosexual and not have any same-gender attraction.
@lovelylittleanne11556 ай бұрын
@@sophiaec2607 agreed, i think the lesbian experience of comphet is talked about so much because its the most stark example of the original meaning -- forcing or being forced to create an attraction to men as a woman, even when none exists due to the social pressure (and at the time, necessity since for example women had to rely on men for financial security). bisexual women face a different pressure, not to force an attraction but to prioritize one they already have, even if its not what they naturally prefer. i think a better word in our modern understanding would be something like compulsive heteronormativity, so that we can both talk about our experiences and similarities, but also differentiate the details in a concise way! the meaning of comphet has definitely changed since its origin for many reasons, but i think its important and necessary for lesbians to be able to speak on our experience being the only group who are women (or non-men) who don't like men because we face such misogyny and homophobia for it, and its very lonely.
@sophiaec26076 ай бұрын
@@lovelylittleanne1155 yesss exactly that!!! I second everything you just said 💯💯
@psychnoodles6 ай бұрын
Im so glad you mentioned Asexuals, and I also think this applies to aromantics too. There’s this idea that being married is just the norm, and for me, that’s always been with a man. It’s actually crazy to me how normal and non-invasive (?) that idea was, that eventually I’d just marry and be with a man. Sometimes I’ve felt like I NEED to feel attracted to a man, especially one I know, regardless of how I actually feel about it. It’s been hard to shake off that idea, I’m not sure I’ve freed myself of it completely? But it’s actually been refreshing to learn to drop some of that pressure and trust my own feelings.
@rhaenatargaryen80616 ай бұрын
i will say, as a lesbian, when it comes to the comphet being talked about in good luck babe it definitely resonates on every level with the lesbian experience, which makes sense given that chappell roan is a lesbian. I don't think its particularly productive to nitpick whether its actually about (other sexuality's experiences) because its art. as in, its subjective, within the bounds of reason ofc people will relate it to their experiences if it works.
@flowerheit45126 ай бұрын
i really liked the challengers video and it gave me personally, as someone who loved tashi as a character but who doesn't pay attention to tennis, a lot of context for the character that i didn't have
@moustik316 ай бұрын
I have never been this early! 😁 As a concept, "comp het" helped come to terms to why it took me so long, to realise I was a lesbian.
@pollyflores4185 ай бұрын
Ok but on the conversation of bisexuals “appearing straight” I’ve never thought that’s an issue at all, but so much of “women’s” communication and community centers men even without anyone realizing! So many conversations between women are around men, if you do not experience attraction to them it is exhausting!!! You get kicked out or ignored because you can’t relate, even by bi people (and yes, irl, not just online!) it’s to the point where even Sex and the City talked about it, even straight people know! And I’m not saying getting sidelined from “women’s” conversations is a lesbian only problem, I’m sure ace people experience it as well and I’m sure a lot of trans (binary and nonbinary) will relate too, but that’s also what we talk about when we talk about decentering men
@jomaq92334 ай бұрын
Omg failing the Bechdel test irl 😳
@samanthawilliams5496 ай бұрын
As somebody who came out as bi after marrying man and still feels hesitant to identify as queer, this video means so much to me ❤
@miriam83766 ай бұрын
Same. I have a bi sister-in-law who is married to a woman, and we were discussing the ending of the movie Kissing Jessica Stein and how Jessica seems to end up with a man at the end of the film. my sis was like, yeah, it felt like a step backwards that she ended up with a man instead of a woman, and I was immediately grateful that I hadn’t come out as bi to my husband’s family yet. I had no idea how to have that argument with a much younger bi woman who could so easily dismiss my experience despite her having been out longer. It felt like I was being gatekept from my own identity somehow, like my own (still very strong) attraction to some women somehow didn’t count in her eyes since I’d put a ring on her brother’s finger. I find myself reminding myself frequently of the times when I would’ve given anything to kiss a particular girl so I don’t end up feeling gaslit by the community around me into thinking I’m straight again.
@DeannaBaileytheRavensFan5 ай бұрын
Same. Pan woman here.
@potatomelon28245 ай бұрын
@@miriam8376That sucks, dude. I do want to say that I think queer women often feel that it’s disappointing in media for sapphic women to end up with men because there’s a strong convention of sapphic relationships being less valid or less mature than heterosexual relationships (just take a look at Freud’s theories lol) and also just fewer representations of queer relationships that end well. Not trying to overwrite your experience, but I did want to offer a possibility that mb she didn’t mean to say that queer women ending up with men is bad, but rather the overwhelming tendency in media to make bi women “grow out of” their wlw relationships within media is kinda frustrating. That being said, I think it would be wonderful to have more depictions of bi folks within media who are unambiguously bi regardless of their current relationships (I think the new Scott Pilgrim animated show is a good example? Ramona has an ex-girlfriend but mostly dates guys, and her main romantic interest is a straight man)
@Man-ej6uv5 ай бұрын
it's not lesser and doesn't mean you're not queer but it is different from bi women who date or marry women. just different in a neutral way
@samanthawilliams5495 ай бұрын
@lif6737 I’m so sorry about that experience (and all of the others I’m sure you’ve had that have stuck with you). Bi erasure is so much worse for men, hands down. I get frustrated by the idea that anyone should have to “prove” their queerness and centering straightness as the default. My idea of sexuality is about identity *not* who you are currently in a relationship with, monogamous, long term, or not. I’m a person, in a relationship with another person who happens to be a different gender. When I experience attractions, it’s to other people, some of who are my gender and some of who aren’t. Gender isn’t a binary. So sexuality isn’t a binary. Because humans don’t exist in a binary. Bisexuality isn’t just gay+straight. What a lack of imagination! Maybe I’m in the minority because when I try to explain this it seems like people get lost in the weeds a bit. And please don’t take any of this is a personal dig, by the way, just my own rantings. I came out to my best friend because I had a huge crush on this girl and was afraid my husband would leave me. He basically made me seem like an indecisive, sex crazed, cheater who was disrespecting my husband by being attracted to a woman and implied that, yes, he would leave me. He found out I was serious when I fully came out in an article for Pride a year later where I wrote about how that experience had almost destroyed my sense of self. So *no* judgement from me. Also, after I came out my husband did too so I guess it worked out 😂
@AngelJamieJules6 ай бұрын
I'm black, non-binary, and pansexual. I have an androgynous gender presentation, and any relationship I'm in is queer in some way or another. I legitimately feel more peaceful avoiding queer people than I do interacting with them due to how prevalent racism, trans/enbyphobia, and bi/panphobia are in the community. I constantly feel excluded from the LGBTQ+ community because discourse in LGBTQ+ spaces is still overwhelmingly white, binarist, and monosexual. I'm usually not even a thought as I'm often erased, and when I'm brought into consideration, I receive hate. It's bad enough that I already feel a major disconnect from cishet people (obviously), but I have to also deal with queer people being a threat to my well-being too.
@chelseashift6 ай бұрын
I'm really sorry. I'm a brown bisexual woman and I also don't really feel accepted in queer spaces because the community doesn't seem to recognize intersectional identities.
@tesreso54486 ай бұрын
I joined an LGBTQ+ group at a transbuddy's suggestion, that it was really good for him and helped him feel comfortable in realizing he was trans and wanted to transition the best he could... the coordinator was nice, i went to a few sessions... But yea... there trans men and women, there were gays and lesbians... i was the only androgynous demi-pansexual and none of them knew what those were or cared and got angsty when i tried to expain it... sorry guys, but the LGBTQ+ community is STILL mainly run by those that scream "pick your lane!" But then also scream that toxic poly is the best (as in the poly many ive dealt with were toxic forms, not poly itself, it works when it does... which is rare imo) but this is the stuff i always come up against when i deal with ANY of the 'community', and ive been around it more then most of these ppl... Gay is fine, lesbians are fine, trans are OH SO FINE!! But if youre bi? Intersex? nonbinary? Androgynous? God forbid if you try to explain your GENDER is Futa but physically youre sex is female and present as Androgynous? Oh my lord... christ the amount of 'those are bad words!' Ive had thrown at me... sweeties, if those words were bad I WOULD BE THE ONE TO COMPLAIN!! Not use them as descriptors... But yea, feel ya my amourphous blob kin~ (i say with joking love :3)
@angielarsen32335 ай бұрын
Wow, what you said at 40:52 about "decentering romantic ideals" is so important! as someone in their early 20s, i see a lot of my friends getting into serious relationships in a questionable way, where they center their lives around their partner in a way that i feel causes a loss of identity. Like, they completely fall apart if they have a falling out. Part of it is young love that they'll hopefully learn from, but as a single person, its frightening to think that i could lose myself in another person so fully, and it's frightening to see that possibility in some of my friends (granted, though, i cannot know their own minds, so it could just be paranoia lol).
@wildmarjoramdieselpunk63965 ай бұрын
A lot of people enjoy that type of love.
@ohdreamaker5 ай бұрын
@@wildmarjoramdieselpunk6396 doesn't mean it's healthy though lol
@wildmarjoramdieselpunk63965 ай бұрын
@@ohdreamaker It depends on the person and how they define it. I like making my relationship important. It probably means sacrificing some part of the self to become two, but I also give myself a lot of free time to myself. When my partner and I get done with work for the day, we usually have a couple hours to do what we want as separate people. He likes video games. I like to read and draw and have other hobbies. After this, we make dinner. But I feel younger people don’t want to give up any of the self for a relationship and that’s why their relationships are hard. They don’t want to give anything up. Or they just don’t get the give and take of relationships. Or compromise. So I guess “questionable” is in the mind of the observer. What they might see as questionable, I may not and vice versa. There are people who are single and love it…or maybe they should stay single and not judge their friends who want to be with someone. It’s fine. To each their own. I am not going to yuck somebody’s yum because their lifestyle doesn’t suit me and my vision of what a relationship should be. I just know whatever I am doing, it works, somehow. :)
@jomaq92334 ай бұрын
@@wildmarjoramdieselpunk6396I mean, aren’t younger people mainly fighting against amatonormativity?
@wildmarjoramdieselpunk63964 ай бұрын
@@jomaq9233 Wow, that’s quite a word! 😊 I assume it works for some and not for others. As an introvert and idealist, I tend to like romance, but other relationships matter too. I am not sure if I agree to some of the points I read about it. But I have known people all my life that lived single and had a great time. Whatever floats your boat! I guess my view on some of my younger friends is that they act like they want to be alone and then they distant themselves from intimacy in any form…which is different from having intimate but not romantic relationships…then tell me they feel empty. Like it is all or nothing. But there is so much grey area there. I just feel a lot of the social anxiety people feel is because they don’t let themselves connect with others or what is around them. They aren’t willing to give up part of the self, romantic or not. I also think younger people overanalyze in general. Or want to define everything and go overboard. A people viewing their friends’ relationships from the outside doesn’t know how their friends’ minds work. And even from the outside, if a relationship looks bad to them, it might still work for the couple involved. I just see a lot of unhappy younger people who would benefit from any form of intimacy get mad at others who have it. And say romance is bad for them. It is a lot of jumping to conclusions. I am not my friends…so I cannot assume what is right or wrong for another person. I only know what works for me and what I see which seems to be a lack of connection and intimacy in general in younger people I personally know. But it is probably not all of them. I think the internet makes it seem like it is more than it is, but I could be wrong,
@vvvvia6 ай бұрын
Learning about comphet was genuinely so helpful for me. I only wish that there was more discussion around how aromantics and asexuals are affected by it, too. I mistakenly identified as a lesbian for three years before learning that asexuality and aromantism was even an option, or what those identities even meant.
@PhoenixFireKMS2 ай бұрын
You may want to look into the term “amatonormativity”!
@princessjellyfish986 ай бұрын
YOUR CHALLENGERS VIDEO WAS GREAT I LOVED IT!
@zipbangcrash5 ай бұрын
I so appreciate the continued discussions despite what might or might not get as many clicks. This whole discussion is super close to my heart, so I am glad you're putting your thoughts out here, as usual! 💯
@kaicube59676 ай бұрын
my opinion as a transmasc lesbian on whether or not other queer people can use the word comphet: im not a cop. go for it if it's a helpful framework to you. queer liberation is a communal fight
@acecat27986 ай бұрын
Around the 30 min mark I was able to put my finger on part of what makes your takes so refreshing-- you hold onto this love of identity that is based in hope and pride, the reasons that a community space is worth fighting for. You've got the research, and you put it on screen and you discuss the historical context of scholarship, but for me the most important part is the love-- and your own knowledge that your perspective is based in love of your community. Even when I disagree on one point or another, I really admire these roots that give you the emotional insight that you display so well-- it helps motivate me to stay invested instead of running from trouble.
@Daneypastry5 ай бұрын
You never have to apologize for taking care of yourself! Hope you're doing okay after the surgery 🌻
@gen.giggles5 ай бұрын
It's a weird thing, with bi+ folks that the queer expectations for us are to be with men. Bi+ women are expected to be with a man, and bi+ men are expected to be with men. It's a different expectation from straight expectations for us, and both types of expectations cause problems for us.
@cmgoodell6 ай бұрын
Comp het has had the same migration in meaning that intersectional has. Specific morphing into a more generic aligned meaning. It is pretty common term in asexual community where "corrective r8pe" is also a thing too.
@amirah_lovey766 ай бұрын
Corrective Ra** I’ve never heard that term before
@PikaPicu6 ай бұрын
idk if it means much in the grand scheme of things, but i for one found your channel through the challengers video (i’ve been ravenously consuming content about that movie since it released so it was destined for my recommended feed) and through that i ended up binging tons of your content over the past month, so. i guess, just because on the surface a video “flopped” doesn’t mean it didn’t have impact, and i for one absolutely loved that video and am so glad it led me to your channel.
@laranadesign47646 ай бұрын
@12:18 it just proves that as we all grow and learn/experience, we get to know ourselves better. I didn't realize I was Ace until 40 but I always knew I was "odd" according to the "norm". Finally realizing what I am makes so much sense and to try to discount my personal journey and discovery with "but weren't you in a long-term relationship with a straight man about to be married?" Yes and thankfully I listened to my heart instead of what everyone was telling me I should feel and left that relationship. I am so happy and relieved. I didn't "change" I discovered myself with my own truth. 🌈
@Ag88444 ай бұрын
you’re really becoming my fave youtuber i’ve been binging ur videos for a few days
@BeanMagoon6 ай бұрын
just a small addition here, as I found it instrumental in my own journey with discovering/figuring out my sexual identity, and perhaps others may as well: you can very much still be/identify as bisexual and not be attracted to your own gender! the root of bisexuality really is that attraction to multiple genders, whether they include your own or not! 💞 great video though, and really interesting topic here. thanks!
@Jennifer-gf9eg6 ай бұрын
As a bisexual woman married to a man who didn't realize/recognize/accept my bisexuality until many, many committed years into my relationship with said man, the first time I heard the term comphet it felt like it just clicked for my experience and the experiences of many of my female bisexual friends who are in the same situation as me, and then I got whiplash hearing people thought it was only for lesbians. I realize, looking back on my life, how assumed and compulsory heterosexuality led me to dismissing and confusing my feelings about women, to my youthful/religiously imposed belief that sexuality was a choice, and to my own internalized biphobia that has still prevented me from widely coming out to more people in my life, because I don't feel that I 'deserve' that identity because of my relationship with a man. The lesbian masterdoc and tiktok discourse (combined with medication-induced depression) at one point led me down a very dark path over my relationship which eventually thankfully led to my own self-acceptance and understanding that my bisexuality is valid regardless of whether or not I've been in a relationship with a woman. Denying my attraction and feelings all these years, and especially how they have made me feel 'othered' compared to straight women, and holding myself back from accepting the label of bisexual was a way of gaslighting my own life and was increasingly causing a mental break between my lived experience and what my brain was telling myself. I enjoyed your discussion about centering men especially, as I have always felt like my bisexuality focuses on my relationship to the individual as opposed to my relationship to a man or a woman. For me and my friends who are bisexuals in hetero relationships, it didn't seem worth it to throw away a relationship with an individual I love, trust, and have a valuable partnership with in order to explore relationships with my same gender, just to get another tick in the validity box of my identity. Although my husband often comments that he knows if anything were to end our relationship, he knows i would throw myself whole heartedly into dating women, (and I think he says it as a way of giving me validation) it has been a long journey into accepting my identity as it stands.
@skyeoak36 ай бұрын
I think that comp het intersects with amatonormativity in ways that haven’t been fully explored/discussed, and I’m excited to see that dialogue as both terms become more widely known
@rachelv6736 ай бұрын
Thanks! 🩷💛🩵🩷💜💙
@Princess_Weekes6 ай бұрын
Thank you!!!
@chavezsessoms70716 ай бұрын
I would love to see a wider conversation around biromantic-bisexuals and hetero-romantic bisexuals between you and intelexual media.
@thatinsufferablenerd6 ай бұрын
God, I feel the struggle of being in a het presenting relationship. I'm pan and married to a man (questioning NB gender), had kids with a man, only ever been with men. It's not like that has suddenly made me stop liking any gender or from swapping thirst traps on TT with him. I struggle a lot with not feeling 'queer enough' having been dismissed so often or ask myself 'did I fall into comp-het?' even though I'm happy in my relationship. There are good conversations going on out there, but it's finding them in the slop of internet discourse that's hard. The community is supposed to be inclusive. I wish it was.
@Jekyllstein_Gray6 ай бұрын
To further reiterate the ways in which feminist history is deeply intertwined with queer history, Emma Goldman was supporting the rights of gay people 50 years before Stonewall.
@isabelcartwright90226 ай бұрын
Trust your instincts -- I love your Challengers video! It was far and away the best criticism of the movie I've encountered!
@lunarvisions76 ай бұрын
Also absolutely loved that video! It was very well researched and made me appreciate the film in ways I hadn’t before!
@kiman66 ай бұрын
It is SO refreshing to hear from you on the topic of comphet. I’m so exhausted of biphobia with this topic, and you have made me feel secure again in myself and my identity as a bi woman. I really appreciate you as a human and as a content creator!! 💖
@Alex-ph5ir6 ай бұрын
I remain very grateful that your channel exists and provides the exact kind of media analysis *and* queer/sapphic/bi-focused content that my soul craves
@outofhere25346 ай бұрын
More comments on the Michigan Women’s Music Festival and its trans-exclusionary policies: TLDR is that no, transwomen literally did nothing wrong and there wasn’t even a particularly big movement of people wanting to exclude them. Finn Enke’s “Collective Memory and the Transfeminist 1970s: Towards a Less Plausible History” is a fantastic exploration of how we’ve constructed a “plausible history” of second-wave feminism that sees it as inherently transphobic and white because it lends itself to a progress narrative, when really transfeminists and Black feminists have been present throughout the movement’s history (and on the Black feminist history side, there is also a really compelling argument that the waves metaphors erases the fact that Black women have written essays theorizing gender and race as interconnected social forces since like…..the 1900s)! Often times these histories were reshaped through archival and journalistic coverage, the latter of which often left out the fact that transwomen were being actively supported by their peers amidst the attacks, AND those same sources chose to cover transphobic hate while omitting meeting notes from Black lesbian caucuses.
@ToplessTopics4 ай бұрын
What you said at 3:25 about, even if you're not getting a lot of views, still enjoying engaging with commenters and hearing what others had to say, that really resonates with me. I've been making videos since the beginning of youtube and I don't have even a quarter as many subscribers as you (though that's mostly because of how often haters false-report my content to get it banned, so I'm constantly having to rebuild my community on fresh accounts) but the reason I keep making videos anyway is that I really do enjoy whatever limited discourse I'm able to have about the topics that interest me/that I care about. I found your channel a while ago but only recently did the algorithm gods bless me with another suggestion by you, so now I'm catching up with what I missed. So glad you're still sticking with it, I hope your health improves so we can hear from you even more!
@raechu_012106 ай бұрын
I fucking love that you tackled this topic! It is really important to me as a lesbian who struggled with comphet, and as a trans lesbian the sort of exclusionary barrier that people can sometimes erect around lesbianism is also something that I struggle with. I've personally found that lesbians and bi/pan women are more alike than we are different, *except* for bi/pan women who havent challenged their own internalised comphet. And that's, in my experience, a minority! I feel like there's this big boogeyman lesbians like to invent of the bisexual woman that's essentially "straight plus" and is going to break your heart when she decides a relationship with a woman is less valuable than one with a man. In reality while that does happen it's not as common as the internet would suggest, and it's also usually people that are very early in their queer life that behave like that. It's just not something worth deriding bisexual women as a whole over. Again, we're more the same than we are different.
@chelseashurmantine81536 ай бұрын
I watched this on Nebula and omg. It has given me so much to think about. Thank you for making this video. I'm bi AF and I truly feel that since my last (and I mean LAST) hetero breakup, I've been just gathering myself to take the full political lesbian plunge into lesbian relationships, but, frankly, I'm stretched so thin from Climate Advocacy that I'm just not sure how much strength I have to take on more battles. I know that's a wussy ass move but it's where I'm at. I told my male hookups a couple years ago that I'm no longer sleeping with men until I see them visibly and vocally standing up for me and my rights and I just am so repulsed by them. I think that I'm probably never going to be with a man again. But I'm definitely not able to give a woman what she deserves. I would like to venture into more lesbian spaces but the online options are just NOT for me, and the physical spaces..... Like you, I feel that I don't fit in because I'm Bi not lesbian, and lesbians have a lot of...... Idk. Lesbians have been mean to me, ok? Like literally men are trash, but women can be SADISTIC and I just don't have the thick skin for any of that.
@joshkalia5 ай бұрын
so happy youtube recommended this video to me! thank you for making this
@kelliann5 ай бұрын
I came out of the closet late in life. The amount of cis-het girls that have loved me in secret... it's embarrassing and shameful for me. I spent so much time in the labels don't matter group of people, that I didn't see my needs and preferences as acceptable in the daylight. Those women from my past really love going to pride celebrations and love Chappelle, but they were also never okay with being identified as WLM or lesbian when they were with me... it's not just 17 year olds with no experience saying that there's a subdivision amongst Sapphic spaces (between the bis and not bis), there's a group of older people who had very negative experiences before Me Too and before Drag Race, and being secretly bi used to be the only safe way to be bi. I dont want our spaces segregated, but I'm also happy Chappelle has written songs about how it SUCKS to be a cis-het girls secret ex girlfriend while she celebrates with her boyfriend.
@lesvianaura6 ай бұрын
now i will agree that comphet is something that everyone queer can experience and it can't belong to one sexuality, but i think the main problem when it comes to Chappell Roan's song that many lesbians have is saying it's queer when it's clearly about a lesbian song about a lesbian experience. This, plus seeing so many people censor the word lesbian during pride, is becoming very annoying because there's already so little rep lesbians have and people are acting like saying Good Luck Babe is clearly about lesbians is a bad thing. The song is about lesbian comphet and it is different from other variations of it. Pointing that out shouldn't be a problem. Saying the word lesbian shouldn't be a problem.
@Princess_Weekes6 ай бұрын
I am not going to argue about if it is about lesbian comp het or not but I think the issue I have is that even in queer publication reviews of the song that mention comp het they talk about general queerness so if this is solely a lesbian song I think that is fine but I don’t think that’s been made clear in any of the interviews I’ve seen. But if Chappell has said anything could you direct me?
@chandraa53336 ай бұрын
We can all agree its from a lesbians experience. But that also doesn't negate that bisexual and other queer women cant relate or shouldn't. Chappell writes music for the QUEER community. But also through her sapphic lense. She has never and probably will never say her music is for or can only be related to by lesbian women. I fully think shes proud to be a lesbian. But her goal has always seemed to be to unite and uplift the queer community.
@aricheec77226 ай бұрын
i hope one day you are able to empathize with those who have similar but different experiences than you. it must be lonely to see someone struggling like you did, and decide it’s not similar enough suffering to extend compassion to them
@aricheec77226 ай бұрын
other people identifying with the song doesn’t erase lesbians. other people explaining how these experiences aren’t exclusive to lesbianism doesn’t erase you, and you shouldn’t be feeling so threatened by peoples real world experiences not fitting your expectations
@AdaCrowley6 ай бұрын
Thank you for this! I caught wind of this discourse on tumblr and like, no disrespect to the baby gay who was insisting it was lesbian-only, it didn't clock with my own experience of growing up bisexual. Part of me wonders if it is part of the fact many younger folks have grown up with queer identity being more mainstream, and therefore they don't clock bi women's experiences as ones who deal with comp het because they are also attracted to men? I don't know, but I know that the fact I was attacted to men as well as women growing up did not free me from the pain of homophobia and the pressures of people's cishet expectations, especially since I grew up in a conservative religious place when being gay was an insult.
@becauseimbored7777776 ай бұрын
I thought the challengers video was great!! Keep doing you! Love your videos and the academic tone they have 🧡
@outeremissary44386 ай бұрын
I don't have a long comment in me right now, but thank you as always for coming to this with so much nuance! I appreciate you pushing on the capacity for labels to be used to divide the community rather than to help build it.
@tinyhipsterboy5 ай бұрын
I hope you heal up from surgery quickly and with no issues ❤
@Jgotmilk555Ай бұрын
I haven't thought about Radcliffe Hall since college! Cool shout out! Great video!
@josoldino26706 ай бұрын
Already watched this on nebula, just dropped in to engage a little since it's such a well put togheter essay
@emmaseckso18706 ай бұрын
As a trans woman, I am *so* grateful to have been shepherded through my identity-finding journey and coming out by the lesbian community. Until recently, I really took for granted that I was so close to one of the oldest and biggest lesbian bars in the country. What a gift!
@glitter_macabre6 ай бұрын
a list of thoughts - i love. your recent videos and i have screenshots of the monster ~lovers~ video saved for further reading - i really appreciate your discussion of evolving identity / orientation in this video. for me (agender / dyke ish) i feel like part of making a happier and more queer centered life was accepting that my past feelings for & relationships with men were real. i dont want to write off a vast swath of my adolescence and adulthood as just conforming to "comp het" and hollow. i know there was love there, and i also know that internalized misogyny homophobia and transphobia kept me invested in those relationships and away from queer community. i feel that my orientation has evolved with me, and will continue to - this video reminded me of an episode of the podcast The Heart / Bitchface that I really love called "Lesbian Separatism is Inevitable" (the title is not the conclusion the episode reaches but more a premise that is challenged and dreamed into) It touches on a lot of the themes of this video and recounts two questioning women falling in sapphic "art love". I think sapphic people struggling with where and how men hold significance in their lives might get something out of it as i did.
@immateriaIboy6 ай бұрын
dropped at the perfect time 😭💖 thank you for your (forever) incredible analysis and personality
@SarahBabe6 ай бұрын
Princess Weekes mentions it right away but just in case: Comp Het = Compulsory Heterosexuality. 😃 Love your shirt btw! Glad you're feeling well enough to make videos! Hope you heal quickly! 🥰
@mirroredhour21 күн бұрын
Thank you for being so thoughtful and vocal about your bisexual identity! Today was a weird day where I came across instances of bi-erasure or biphobia in what I thought would be a friendly space and it just makes me really fed up sometimes, so it's a breath of fresh air to watch another one of your videos and be so acknowledged and celebrated in that. It's what I needed.
@whyaminotsleepyet83776 ай бұрын
Commenting for the algo but also to say I'm sooooo excited to finish this video. I'm sure it's another banger
@AndraB-k1p5 ай бұрын
so great and well articulated as always. really needed this video after a long stretch of bad online takes
@DanikaLeighEllis5 ай бұрын
One of my problems with the many iterations of bisexual discourse is that it's rarely acknowledged just how huge an umbrella term "bisexual" is. It's like how "nonbinary" is imagined as a narrow gender identity instead of that it covers a wide spectrum of identities. Bisexual people all have their own relationships to sexual and romantic attraction. As someone who's attracted to men about 5% of the time, I identified as bisexual at first, then came out as a lesbian, then ten years later came out again as bisexual. My interior sense of my sexuality didn't change at all during that time, but I'm perceived differently based on which label I use. I think queer women have far more in common than there are differences, and infighting really holds us back.
@ohemmehey5615 ай бұрын
Just caught you on Behind the Bastards! You were an excellent guest! I was already subbed to you so I guess I’m cool 💅🏻
@mclellie5 ай бұрын
I just want to comment and say how much your videos and thoughts mean to me- your videos always make me feel seen and challenged, and I so appreciate the bravery and intention that goes into these videos. Your videos mean a lot to me and have helped me learn how to have difficult/in-depth dialogues with others and myself. Thank you for all that you do!!
@Braindouchedotnet6 ай бұрын
Back in the day, I would go to the one lesbian bar in my city (compared to more than a dozen gay bars), and it was still almost always half-full of gay men, unless there was an event on. The gay men that liked the lesbian bar were most frequently trying to escape the toxic environments in the men's bars, and have a nice safe gay drink without whatever drama or drugs were causing problems elsewhere. This annoyed me as a young lesbian, but now that I'm an old grumpy lesbian I appreciate that whole mood a lot more and would welcome it now, if those bars still existed. It's interesting, because it wasn't the job of the lesbian bar to be a safe inclusive space, it just was that space in that city.
@BogOfEternalStench6 ай бұрын
Your voice sounds great, I didn’t notice any raspyness. I’m glad to hear you’re taking it easier this month and hopefully the recovery from your surgery goes great💕
@taniaselfindulgart38476 ай бұрын
Thank you for another great video! And I appreciate you showing the books you've been reading on the subject, not just linking them in the description. I must say, it seems like a home library tour from you would be such a treat if you ever want to share, as a patreon reward maybe.
@pamelawestphal70376 ай бұрын
You're doing great! Hope you recover from your surgery well! Loved you Challengers video!
@kutelilkanga6 ай бұрын
Yeah I feel like agreed a lot of this is online but also it is still internalized frustrations that I think are important to acknowledge like this is the other side of why representation is so important not just to feel joy from being represented but also bringing more progress to issues that aren’t acknowledged enough with in the people being represented more so I’m glad that a queer women artist like chapell has kind of been a vehicle for addressing some internalized biphobia and misogyny and just labels in general with sexuality
@kutelilkanga6 ай бұрын
And yes especially the fact that comp het was originally meant to challenge heterosexual feminists and now getting used to just blame women for centering men automagically if you’re bi? Like It’s hard to put into words but there’s this real internalized misogyny and ironically a very actually non queer way of looking at queer women but automatically thinking the moment you even consider men all of the sudden it’s only the women’s fault for the centering of men and it’s their responsibility for whatever behavior the man does like with the whole bi women with boyfriend like as if those boyfriends aren’t their own people that can be responsible for their actions it’s always women’s problem even if the men are root of the problem cause they’re the default as if you can’t not center men and still coexist like especially it’s accusations of centering men only if you’re romantically and sexually involved which once again pinning that shame of women’s sexuality onto them like as if you escape patriarchy once you’re a “full” queer person like?! Not even to mention the way bi men are treated vs women like there’s some deep internalized misogny and biphobia and ironically still prepetuating that hetero normativety and heterosexual and striaght is the default like I think we’ll have to accept at some point because that we can’t keep subscribing to heteronormative ideas of sexuality and gender and then turn that against our own people in our community if we want to actual have equity when it comes to gender, sexuality, love, like I get the sentiment and fear but that will only do so much in the short term
@kutelilkanga6 ай бұрын
And in conclusion I think sexuality just like we’ve talked about gender more is way more complex and fluid then we give it credit for like you were talking about people like Kehlani and Renee Rap like everyone goes at different paces
@kutelilkanga6 ай бұрын
Yeah it’s unfortunate this weird hierarchy of queerness as bi people like and then people are like yeah you sure do feel shameful like how a lot of queer are reacting to good luck babe instead of asking wait why would it be shameful in the first place? It’s almost like we really don’t see bi as it’s own thing and still this mindset of switching back to gay and straight but like it’s it’s own things
@artis_10015 ай бұрын
OMG‼️ You did that WAYY better than anyone else on the internet has thus far. This conversation is definitely necessary. The stats you mentioned in this video are necessary and validated my perspective on bisexuals.. NGL, this is my favorite video from you . I appreciate you breaking this down. it is what it is. Imma share this video with my friends
@Eliza-cz9yl5 ай бұрын
this was an amazing and important video i love listening to u speak it’s like ur articulating so many of my own thoughts and it’s just so yes omg spot on
@StarLightNow5 ай бұрын
I haven't watched your Challenges video yet because I wanted to watch the movie first. Please keep making great content. You are incredible.
@raydaug46336 ай бұрын
I think a major contributing factor to these types of discourses and thier resulting tensions is academia "breaking containment" and the missapplication of theory. Similar to the profleration of therapy speak, a lot of acedemic terms and concepts are now cirrculating on social media. But it's not because acedemics are making on effort for greater outreach, but usually because someone read a book or took a class. And if they have enough influence and clout on their platform of choice, their interrpruation of that academic term or concept gains traction and can dominate the public conciousness. But also, theory shoudn't be the foundation for your interpersonal relationships. Especially a flawed misunderstanding of theory. As was pointed out, theory is constantly in flux, always evolving and developing and occasionally being discarded. I think a lot of people cling to theory because it gives structure to the often messy process of managing your relationships, but also because it gives them ways to justify their worst impulses in the same way the weaponization of therapy speak does.
@voidify36 ай бұрын
Great video, speaking as a bi genderqueer person who doesn’t date cis men anymore and mostly just uses the label queer, and is visibly queer in a way that makes most people assume I’m a lesbian
@briq61235 ай бұрын
Always a joy to see you talk about things, but really appreciated your thoughts on this 🩷