Comparison: 64mm SSP Multipurpose vs. Niche Zero vs. 64mm SSP High Uniformity

[@davidddmaoqiu]

Thanks for the video. It is by far the most clear explanation I’ve heard on KZbin. Great job!

[@ricard3851]

You just made my mind now! I have got a niche zero and a kopi deva with mazzer stock burrs! I will definitely upgrade to multipurpose ssp burrs as I want more clarity and acidity out of the 64mm! Great video btw

[@fitzytom]

Another great informative video, keep them coming 👍🏼

[@chebsas1]

Thank you for explaining these differences so clear.

[@tennisinme]

Thanks Brian! How much better would a p100 make coffee taste when compared to the 64 burrs?

[@jpjay1584]

42

[@BensCoffeeRants]

Maybe it's just me (and because the burrs might not have been totally seasoned). I found I didn't get much body on either the Stock italmill burrs on the DF64, or any of the SSP burrs (besides the newer lab sweet style Cast Burrs). I didn't think there was TOO much difference between the HU and MP,. I noticed more of a difference for filter / aeropress coffees than I did for espresso (you can more easily tell with each step from stock, to HU, to MP, that there's less and less fines, which get over extracted and add bitterness and obstruct the flavour clarity). With the SSP Multipurpose burrs, I found you CAN get really good clarity for light roasted espresso, without too much acidity, AND SOME pretty decent body, with a short ratio kinda Ristretto shot! But it might not be easy to achieve that in a lot of machines, what I found I liked was with the Europiccola, was doing 16g in and about 30g out (whatever the machine feels like giving me lol) I do a long pre-infusion like 20-30 seconds, I think that's the key to toning down the acidity, and the shorter ratio is what prevents over-extraction and allows you to get some extra body!

[@Tomas-CZE]

Thank you very much for this video, it’s exactly what I needed to hear to decide what’s gonna be best for me to choose according to my liking. Thanks a lot! ❤

[@retro1333]

Brief, clear and informative. Thanks for that :) keep up the good work.

[@jjorte2]

Could you do a video on how to dial in with the Lagom P64? Showing how to adjust the grind size for a better cup and how to dial in both for espresso and pour-over or French press. That’ll be amazing as there are no videos like that out there! I really like your content by the way, you present facts in such an easy way to understand, keep up it up, the coffee community appreciates that a lot, I certainly do!

[@michaelcibula9552]

This was so informative Brian! Thank you for putting in the time! Curious... do you think a df64 w/ the same SSP as a Lagon p64 will produce similar results and the price delta is more about fit/finish/workflow?

[@BensCoffeeRants]

I've had a bunch of DF64s and A Lagom P64, I never had both side by side with the same burr sets to compare directly though. I believe the DF64 is a knock off but it does have a great value and it should likely give you very similar / close results taste wise, you might have to do some tweaks to get it there though. There's likely more quality control variance on the DF64s, some declumpers seem to be more problematic on some than others. And you may need to adjust the alignment yourself. The P64 is a work of art, and it's worth the extra money if you can afford it. It's neat, simple, the motor is nice and quiet and smooth, doesn't require a bellows for low retention (does benefit sometimes from a bonk on the head, or ramping up the RPM though) it also comes with a very nice magnetic funnel. Variable RPM does make a difference in grind quality, but I found for espresso the MP burrs tend to work best at higher RPM, I usually did 1100, which is close to what a DF64 would run at (1400). For filter coffee you may benefit still from variable rpm with those burrs , generally lower RPM = better flavour clarity, less fines but even at higher RPM those burrs are already super high clarity. My theory why I was getting worse results at lower RPM for (light roasted) espresso was that it was too unimodal somehow.

[@BensCoffeeRants]

I got another P64 now, with the same burrs as my DF64! Time for some direct comparisons!

[@jensleeuw]

@@BensCoffeeRants any results? 😃

[@BensCoffeeRants]

@@jensleeuw I may have made a video talking about it but cant recall for sure. DF64 vs P64 both with SSP cast burrs? To be fair I mainly tested at highest RPMs on the P64 which is the same as Df64 RPMs. Taste was very similar but Df64 seemed to sometimes be slightly better. I think because the cast burrs in that one were a bit more seasoned. But very little difference. At lower RPMs usually you get more clarity and less body which still works but the cast burrs didn't seem to make such a big difference when lowering RPMs vs other burrs I've tried. I didn't love the burrs. People say those burrs need a lot more seasoning. I think it might just need a perfect alignment to have any clarity (df64 seemed like it was aligned when got it but lost the alignment, my previous notes said it had decent clarity I cant remember if that was influenced from what others said or was my experience initially ) because those burrs seemed Iike a lower end conical grinder to me lots of body not much clarity. I'll maybe do a test with those burrs vs a niche zero.

[@borjalpze]

Hi Brian! Great video, lots on information :) I am going for the HU burrs thanks to you! I have one question tho, I have been playing a lot with turbo shots lately (1:3 ratios). Do you think HU burrs are also suitable for this? Or shoud I stick to lower ratios (up to 1:2.5)? Thanks!

[@chris9923]

Hi Brian. Do you have view on which SSP would be best suited for milk based espresso drinks? I tend to make flat white/ cortado? Looking for an upgrade for my Mazzer SJ. Thanks, and I'm enjoying the channel.

[@paul--b]

Do you think the Mazzer 64mm flats would sit exactly half way between the Niche and HU?

[@Kevin-li7go]

You said the MPs work best at longer ratios but since they extract so well and so fast I feel 1:2-1:3 is the sweet spot for the clarity from my experience, nice video as always!

[@BensCoffeeRants]

I agree, or even shorter, if you do a long pre-infusion! It depends on your tastes / gear / coffees maybe. Some people love their Turbo shots, not me.

[@jackchen6578]

Great video, thank you Brian! I also use Niche for my espresso and Option-O P64 with Unimodal for filter (I think V2 since I bought it very recently). I was a bit confused since most SSP burr on the market doesn’t say “Unimodal”, and usually referred to HU, and Multi-purposes, and brewing. Is it correct that Multi-purpose and Unimodal V2 are the exact same burr just named differently? And SSP Brewing is Unimodal V1?

[@MikeSlott]

Awesome, thanks Brian!

[@drsteee]

Im about to preorder the Zerno and want to ask you where you would place the SSP CV2 in this comparison? :)

[@RoyRaanani]

Brian - I’m struggling with the MP on my P64 for both espresso and pour over. Can you share what your grind range is for a DAK, for example, for pour over and espresso? As well as profile (on Decent) you’d recommend? Thank you! I’m struggling with the massive acidity. Water chemistry would also help as you mentioned that.

[@islubio]

Great video. Have been use the df64 with the mp ssp burrs for awhile. Works great with my flair signature and pour over. However have just gotten the flair 58 and with 58mm portafilter, puck is much thinner and I can't seems to be able to do a traditional, 9 bar 25 sec 1:2-1:3 espresso with it. So the qns is, is the mp burrs only able to do a low pressure and long ratio shot (like a turbo), or is it capable of doing a traditional espresso too. When I do grind find enough to get 9 bars of pressure, I am seeing lots of webbing/channelling, and to get that pressure I m almost grinding at burr touching point for my beans

[@jonathanedmund7429]

same thing i faced. on the lagom multipurpose, i was already grinding 5~6 from my true zero with a vst 18grm basket, anything below, its hard not to channel at 8/9bar. what helped me alot to get a good 1:2 espresso is to increase to 7~9 bar as soon as possible. no preinfusion, no blooming, just a increase to 8/9 bar in 5 sec or less (well technically this is preinfusion, but you get what i mean). by doing so, i get a good 9 bar flat extraction and slight tapering towards the end (with the same 5~6 setting). works well with medium - medium dark roast. if i have to do it again, for the flair 58 ill would get the 64 HU. this is just the limitation of the flair 58 in my opinion (unless you want to drop the dose).

[@motion5810]

Much love, Brian ❤️.

[@saintwaye7984]

Hi Brian, great video thanks so much! Used this video kinda as a reference to see if the different profiles also apply to the Eureka mignon burrs (espresso vs brew burs). The different profiles kind of look like the difference between these ssp burrs. Do you have previous experience with Eureka mignon burs? Also in your opinion do you think that in flats one could taste the difference between 50mm and 55mm burs? Thanks so much again!

[@davidchiu1296]

Thank you Brian for the clear info. May I ask how would you compare df64 stock italmill and the HU burrs in terms of body and clarity?

[@FrancescoGelli]

Have you found out bro?

[@davidchiu1296]

@@FrancescoGelli unfortunately no

[@hsienfushih]

I am your new subscriber, and new to the office world. I really like your video and they are really decent. Thank you very much, Brian.

[@aston771]

Brian cold you clarify, recently in reviewing the Orbit grinder you make a comment that you no longer like the Niche Zero Please clarify.

[@NonExistChannel]

Can you grind espresso on the Fellow ODE? I thought it is only for filter

[@brilandis2]

Brian,the stock burrs seem a bit muted to me, i drink flat whites and iced coffee mostly,should i get the MP or HU burrs for more clarity? I just wonder if MP can cut through milk

[@BrianQuan]

MP all day

[@OscarZapata-wb1us]

Hi Brian, I have the Lagom P64 with HU burrs and do mostly espresso. However, if I were to brew using a bialetti mocha pot or a cold brew (and do not feel like buying unimodal burrs and changing them every time), which RPM and ground setting would you recommend using with the HU buffs?

[@chrismitchell7265]

Would you taste a difference with 64mm stock burrs (mazzor) and the HU burrs for filter ? Cheers 😊

[@geraldg6463]

Ah, I am not sure if I should go with the espresso-unimodal/multipurpose set or the high uniformity set. Am drinking nordic style/light roasted espresso both in milk drinks and pure/americano. I am currently using a Eureka Specialita… Will use it with a direct lever/spring lever machine. Any thoughts or ideas?

[@jensc.h.548]

What about the SSP Hu vs the stock itamill 64mm from the DF 64?

[@oldpaperbox]

6:40 I really didn’t know much about the differences in (ssp)burrs, until this videos (so thank you!). But you can say that in general flat burrs create more static? Or is it just that the burrs are bigger and therefore are more static?

[@loreo1235]

Hey there, do you think V60 will be fine as well, when going for the HU burrs? I kinda want the best out of both worlds - do you think this‘ll work?

[@lilsayntness]

Hey do you have any thoughts or will you be getting a pair of the gorilla gear burrs?

[@ferdinandludo8851]

Love your reviews. If to use DF64 mainly for pour overs and prefer fuller ,more chocolate flavours which burr would you recommend? Thanks

[@BrianQuan]

Check out the new Cast Lab Sweet SSP Burrs!

[@ferdinandludo8851]

@@BrianQuan thanks, where to source one ? Does the SSP HU by the way work also with pour over method ?

[@BensCoffeeRants]

I think it's all about the amount of fines, Stock Df64 burrs are probably even closer to the niche or smaller flat burr grinders since it has a bit more fines and more body as a result. I find the ditting style burrs interesting if you can get a good balance of body with clarity still. Hopping to get something like that in 64mm for a DF64 or lagom64 maybe.

[@aaronoeldrew]

Thanks again Brian. Good one. Yup, installed the multi-purpose in my Ode, and have been enjoying great clarity in my shots. Also thanks fir the tip on Mood Trap in SG!

[@BensCoffeeRants]

Since this last comment, I've since tried the SSP 64mm Cast burrs, and they're supposedly not as high body as the original larger cast burr set 'lab sweet' style they emulate, but have more clarity, while I don't think I've tried the original lab sweet burrs, I would say the cast burrs are indeed higher body at the expense of SOME flavour clarity vs other SSP burr options (in 64mm) but it reminds me of a good large conical burr (like on the Weber Key) where you still get a good amount of clarity but also some body which is nice for medium roasts. I think the Weber Key actually has more flavour clarity and less body than the Cast burrs in the DF64 actually, but it's a similar vibe.

[@yeon136]

This is the video I was looking for!!! I was considering to get SSP Unimodal or SSP HU. I am currently using ODE and what would be a better option for Pour over use? Ps: I might get a Niche in the future

[@BrianQuan]

MP

[@rjejames28]

My SSP rotational burr wouldn't fit on the ode so I'm having to deal with that not fun.

[@federicofagnani4265]

Hi bro, I just swish burr to ssp hu on my ek43, I Hade trouble pulling a good Light rosted espresso my first shot 18 g in 40 g out in 35 sec but it was like water texteur what do you think? seasoning?

[@kylehong7466]

Hello! How's Brew (v1 Unimodal) vs Multi-Purpose (v2 Unimodal) on pour over range?

[@Crake71]

Since you have experience with both, I hope you can help. I have a Ditting KR804 with Sweet burrs. Only do pour-over. Would an Ode give me noticeably clarity over the Ditting Sweet? While I like the sweet, creamy coffee the Ditting normally causes, I would not mind having clarity now and then, but I am worried that after the novelty wore away, I might not use the Ode much,, and it would be a waste. Thoughts?

[@BrianQuan]

An ode with 64 MP would, but not an ode with stock burrs!

[@BensCoffeeRants]

Good assessment! Now that I've had more experience with different burrs and grinders. Even stock burrs on a DF64 is pretty clear and the SSPs go further in reducing body and increasing clarity. I find the Eureka Burrs at least ones in the Specialita (55mm) and the 65mm in the Oro Single dosing grinders, they seem to have more of the conical burr blended flavour / chocolate profile. I haven't noticed if there's a lot more body though, I gotta learn to pay more attention to that. I think going from the Specialita to a DF64 I missed the body that I had been accustomed to and never really appreciated / paid attention then I started to miss it. Now I got the Eureka Oro, and I'm kinda thinking the trade off WAS worth it when I had a light roast, but really it depends on the type of coffee your doing and maybe even your mood / tastes. I've had some really nice shots (better than my other grinders with that coffee) out of the 'conical style' Eurekas with not even dark roasted but just slightly more chocolatey profile coffees, I think that works better for milk drinks too generally, but I'm not able to pick out specific flavours in the lighter fruitier coffees like I would on a DF64 (or maybe the Monolith).

[@johnkoroglu8640]

Hmm.. What if you put in your Eureka Oro XL Eureka's own 65mm Red Speed burrs? I'm trying to confirm if they are the same geometry & teeth config as the stock burrs, but enhanced with the coating. Havent found the facts. But they will still help with heat dissipation and have "sharper cutting surfaces" - which should yield some change in-cup profile..

[@BensCoffeeRants]

@@johnkoroglu8640 I doubt heat is going to have any effect unless you're doing commercial / batch grinding which these grinders aren't meant for. I haven't seen the burrs but pretty sure it's the same geometry. And a lot of people confuse the red speed coated burrs thinking they're ssp burrs but other companies also use red speed coating.

[@johnkoroglu8640]

@@BensCoffeeRants Thank you for the response. I'm not one of those people that confuse the two. :) I'm just trying to get a feel for how Eureka's stack up against SSP's in the cup.

[@BensCoffeeRants]

​@@johnkoroglu8640 Funny I'm also replying to your comments on Facebook. I think they're just different. Best to try em both or just be happy with whatcha got :D I forget if I mentioned this already but I believe SSP will soon have a burrset for Eurekas 64mm burr grinders and maybe the 55mm ones too. Definitely worth checking out the SSP Unimodal style burrs if you're into high quality light roasts (or want to coarser brew methods) but if you're into medium or dark, stick with the stock burrs.

[@johnkoroglu8640]

@@BensCoffeeRants small world for home espresso geeks :) Thank you!

[@davidchiu1296]

On the other end of your spectrum, do you know of any 64mm flat burrs that can produce a thick connical like texture for a more traditional espresso feeling?

[@BrianQuan]

The regular ass Italmills that you can get in the DF64 are actually this

[@haristhec]

Hi Brian, could you link the roaster you mentioned early in the video? Thanks

[@BrianQuan]

Moodtrap coffee roasters from Singapore!

[@pithyginger6371]

Probably a bit weird but what did you think of filter coffee from the HU burrs?

[@BensCoffeeRants]

From my experience, I tested Aeropress at a fine filter coffee type grind size, with 3 different DF64s, Stock Burrs, SSP espresso (high uniformity) and SSP Unimodal V2 (multipurpose) burrs, and found the stock burrs weren't so great for coarser brew methods, more fines caused more bitterness and obscured the flavours, SSP burrs were a pretty good improvement, If you're doing mostly espresso and some filter, I'd suggest those. They're actually what I'd call the Multipurpose burrs rather than the Unimodal, the Unimodals are even better for filter coffee, less bitterness (or like no bitterness) and more clarity for nice light fruity type coffees. If you're doing mostly medium or darker roasts, I don't think Unimodals are best. But if you like light roasts and do mostly filter coffee and some espresso and want the best for filter / pour over / aeropress, then unimodals are the way to go. It takes a bit of getting used to for espresso with those burrs.

[@kenroman777]

@ Brian Quan With a barista pro would I nbe able to benefit from the DF64 SSP vs the Sette270 or Niche Zero?

[@BrianQuan]

Yep you should be fine!

[@Pigiums]

Could you elaborate more on the SSP high uniformity vs Ditting labsweet ? knowing option-o has been teasing about similarly styled ditting burrs for 64mm , i've been holding off getting the SSP HU. But if i can get close enough to Ditting labsweet with the HUs as you've mentioned, then that'll be quite a different scenario (i'm expecting the option-o ditting burrs to be more expensive)

[@BrianQuan]

The biggest difference is clarity. The Lab Sweet Cast burrs destroy the HU in that and give you a much better presentation of acidity/flavors IMO. I sometimes think LS burrs are even clearer than MP but because they present acidity in a smoother way it isn't overhwleming. The HU still has a bunch of chocolatiness to it and that makes them seem not as clear but it definitely depends on what roast level of coffee you like.

[@obfuscurity]

Are you still planning to do a video on the Forte-fied hyperaligned Vario?

[@DmitriyShcherbakov]

++ Looks like it's not yet there :(

[@FlavorTrends]

same as manual grinder C40 vs Apollo vs JEPLUS

[@123marijn321]

The MP burrs on my DF64 make insanely clean V60 cups, it’s stunning how juicy and fruity some coffees can be!

[@BrianQuan]

I'm actually putting together a video on V1 vs. V2 unimodals. I got both of them in finally :)

[@cdrptn_cdo]

@@BrianQuan but do you use MP for espresso ?

[@BrianQuan]

@@cdrptn_cdo yes. That's what this video covers lol.

[@cdrptn_cdo]

@@BrianQuan i'm actually looking something up to 1.5k$ to make espresso on la pavoni professional... and)) for example Eureka Oro Mignon Single Dose Grinder - just didn't do it... so.. i can get df64 with standard burr and it will do the trick? ( i understand we could go really geeky here, but if i put that questions that way... will it do the trick?)

[@1111petros]

Hi Brian Quan, how it actually is, what is the truth when it comes to Multipurpose shields? this - " SSP MP = Clarity monster, sharp acidic presentation, potentially overwhelming clarity, lacking body in espresso." or that "Remarkably different from the Brew set for espresso, these burrs are capable of producing high texture and high sweetness shots with nearly comparable clarity" ? Thanks

[@BrianQuan]

In the context of grinders like the NZ the MP will generally have less body. You can get high texture put of MP but generally speaking you have to pull longer to optimize and you lose texture

[@thaveevats466]

Hi Brian, great content! For brewing, in SSP MP to Niche Zero scale, where does the original Fellow Ode burrs fall?

[@BrianQuan]

Closer to Niche Zero but this will really depend on what coffees you're using!

[@daRock1212]

This is awesome! Thanks again Brian. Looks like I'll be maintaining two grinders, a DF64 clarity mini-monster and a Notte/JX-Pro for traditional espresso. This also gives me an upgrade path to a big-boy conical in the future. HU would always make me think I'm missing clarity or body (and i imagine they might be somewhat comparable to the stock steels in the dF64).As always, excellent and informative presentation.

[@cha1ny104]

Thanks, how do the SSP 64mm cast burrs (ditting style) compare the the MP burrs? Thanks

[@BrianQuan]

Coming soon 👀

[@cha1ny104]

@@BrianQuan haha, thanks. So maybe hold off buying any other burrs? I'm just about to buy the MP from Hansung but will hold out of these are special, thanks!

[@cha1ny104]

@@BrianQuan Lance Hendrick says he's reviewing them next week, would be great to have both your opinions!

[@andrewdevall4438]

I noticed in the description that you say water recipe is very important with the 64mm SSP mp burrs. What recipes work for you? I've only used the Rao/Perger recipe using Gagne's method of preparation and assume it's good

[@doxman13]

Hello Brian, I have a question here, I'm having ODE + SSP brew burr here. I now want to get my hand CMD mk4 just out of curiosity, wondering if you have any insight or the differences from SSP brew burr vs CMD.

[@rjejames28]

I just ordered the 64mm cast silver knight lab sweet edition from ssp. I didn't see it covered in your video do you know much about them? There for the fellow ode.

[@AnOtterCoffee]

DF64 + SSP MP + no clump crusher mod is a great buy for money (filter AND spro) 💪😍

[@iconindexsymbol]

Key hanging out real casual like.

[@persianwingman]

That’s not a Key grinder, it’s the Wug2-M1 Motor Mod for HG-1 or HG-2. It’s probably very similar to a Key but really it’s a motor added on to a hand grinder.

[@iconindexsymbol]

@@persianwingman Cool! I didn’t know they made that. (Excuse the lateness; I’m just reviewing some older videos. 😅)

[@alib8396]

And I thought audiophiles were crazy.