The Best Coffee Grinder Combo To Understand Your Preferences (Niche Zero + DF64)

[@BensCoffeeRants]

Very well said, I found the same thing, you really don't know the differences until you try, but even then, I think most people would be happy with the results from either a good flat burr grinder or a good conical burr grinder, as long as it's used with a good fresh roasted coffee! The biggest improvements I think in your coffee comes from (having a good coffee) and learning about proper brew techniques / getting the brew parameters in the proper ranges, basically getting the grind SIZE right and not over or under extracting your coffee (unless you like it that way maybe :D ). Oh and for espresso WDT needle tools are kinda a game changer. A lot of people try to do Niche Vs DF64, but they're pretty different, those two actually do make a really nice pair. It's nice to have a conical and flat. I did talk to a few people who didn't like the high clarity / low body results from the DF64. I found it did take some time to get used to, but I was kinda blown away by the fact I could taste the berries or whatever was noted on the bag of coffee! To further complicate things I found Not all flats are as flat-like, and likely not all conical burrs are very conically (maybe?) I find the Eureka burrs (55mm Specialita and 65mm Oro SD) tend to be more similar profile to the conical burr grinders than what I get on the DF64. I find they (conical or Eureka, and probably others as well) work well for more chocolatey tasting coffees, where I prefer the higher clarity ones for light roasts, although light roasts can also work well on the lower clarity burrs, they just blend the flavours together more so they're no longer individually identifiable.

[@j.r.1030]

Lol I did this with hand grinders - I have a Option O Remi for clarity, and a Kinu en route for texture 😁 Glad to see other people think like I do and want to have all the options possible!

[@LorenzoNW]

In audiophile terms, the difference between conical and flat sounds similar to good tube vs. solid state amplifiers.

[@42dunbar]

I am kind of surprised how many reviewers give blanket recommendations for grinders like the Niche without emphasizing its flavor difference versus flat burr grinders. I agree that you have to experience them before you’ll know what flavor profile that you prefer. My experience is that I tried a Niche Zero and Eureka Atom 75 and found that I preferred the flavor profile of something in between those two grinders.

[@thePowerPlant]

I truly appreciate your long form videos. Pretty much the only coffee person with the cojones to do so. Rock on 2022!!!

[@Andrew-wp1bz]

Lance Hedrick has some pretty long form videos 😳.

[@LanceHedrick]

@@Andrew-wp1bz too long. haha!

[@brownzys7299]

Today the Varia vs6 doesnt sound to bad for this experience. You can try a few different flats and a conical in a grinder that costs the same as the nieche. You will find something that you like and that will be a good base or alternative to your upgrade in the future

[@euanlake2569]

Agree - good advice. I'm enjoying having both a flat burr and conical burr option to play with 👍

[@cameronbatko]

This is the combo I have. Df64 with SSP unimodal and niche. Haven’t had a chance to break in the df64 yet. But excited to do so And basically what you said is what I went though. Wanted to upgrade from the niche but hesitant on the $2500 flats without knowing if I like it. Now I have 2 mid range grinders to learn and taste on

[@nhayes927]

Its crazy that the niche is mid range. This hobby is insane....

[@emilethrash2670]

@@nhayes927 it is insane

[@BensCoffeeRants]

@@nhayes927 my coffee gear might be worth more than my car. Heh

[@ElecBrane]

Great video to understand the importance of the grinder !

[@cjlafleur7585]

Really good video. I think people considering the Niche really should consider a premium hand grinder as an alternative. If you don't mind hand grinding you get the same or better quality for less money, and probably better filter performance.

[@Andrew-wp1bz]

Yeah getting a high end 1zpresso or comandante c40 is an amazing option.

[@danielrustico]

Thanks for the info :-) I have a Comandante and now looking for an electric grinder, but taking the chance to get a different cup taste. You just confirmed my suspicions about the Niche Zero, as it also uses conical burrs. Now wondering about the Niche Duo, which comes with flat burrs (2 actually). My only concern is the high price tag for the 78mm SSP upgrade, which is round double the price of the 64mm… I know I will want to go that rabbit hole once I choose the grinder

[@ezenn]

exactly what i am using now!!! i enjoy filter with ssp mp and espresso on niche. most of times and also switch around whenever the mood call for

[@GreenFlamingo]

Thanks Brian! I opted to go with the Fellow Ode with SSP burrs for my brew grinder and the Niche (just ordered 10 minutes ago lol) for my espresso. That being said, the option to go flat burr for espresso on the DF64 is absolutely appealing and this recommendation makes all the sense in the world. I just really loved the aesthetics on the ode, and was ok not having a flat burr option for espresso.

[@Maybaby1959]

Good vid. I have a 55 64 flat and the niche I think I’m covered. 😊

[@Mzedith]

This a great vid! i have been debating on whether to replace my Niche & Eureka ORO XL with an Atom 75, very helpful in making my decision. I agree with you, sometimes i just want a shot with body and at other times with lighter roasts i want clarity. Thanks for making my decision much easier. Sticking with my current setup. If i had endless funds i would replace the ORO with an Atom and keep the Niche.

[@sunm7035]

Great video. I have a Niche and I am too thinking about a flat burr grinder because everywhere I hear that the difference in taste is so evident... I'd like to try it for myself and the combination with the DF64 is quite appealing.

[@rand9176]

Hey Brian, cheers for the video mate - really informative and helpful advice. I've had the Niche for a little while, and am going to follow this and get a DF-64 with SSP unimodal burrs and do plenty of comparisons for a while & maybe look at something in the price range of a p100 once I'm better informed. Curious to know from your perspective though, a DF-64 with SSP unimodal versus the Lagom P64 with the same burrs - how much difference in the cup are you tasting? Thanks again!

[@alecfotsch3533]

I'd love to hear more about how you reduce fines in your DF64. For filter coffee I'm struggling to get a good cup. I've got about 2kg through so far with the mazzer burrs and I've modded the declumper which helped, but I still have fairly muddy cups. Do I just need more seasoning time? A video about getting the best out of the DF64 would be really interesting. Thanks!

[@slvrbach]

I have the same setup! You just earned yourself a new subscriber, sir! 👍

[@homerf6926]

Thanks man,this is very helpful to my coffee journey.

[@BrianQuan]

Happy to help

[@homerf6926]

@@BrianQuan I'm about to buy this grinder,which 64mm ssp burr should I get from your opinion? High uniformity? I'm using this for my espresso machine btw.

[@BrianQuan]

@@homerf6926 depends on what you're into. You can check out the 64mm SSP burr video I have!

[@chebsas1]

Thank you for your very informative videos!!

[@devildman3128]

This was great. The issue is I don't know if I like flat!

[@RobertsonDCCD]

I thought you might talk about the Kafatek MC-4 as a higher end conical, but you left me hanging. You would be a good one to ask about how much better a cup the MC-4 can give you if you prefer the taste of conical burrs.

[@BrianQuan]

The interesting thing is the MC4 is incredibly similar to the Lab Sweet and to me offers clearer results than a lot of flat burrs. If you want a traditional conical burrset I'd pursue something like the 83mm mazzers in the Weber grinders!

[@RobertsonDCCD]

@@BrianQuan I might be in your target group for this video that is willing to upgrade, but not sure whether I will prefer more clarity or not. I currently use a Specialita, and it probably wouldn’t be a bad idea to put a Niche on the counter to see how I like it.

[@michaelvilster7201]

I went Niche. Then DF64 Multi Purpose and now waiting for my Lab Sweet 807 to arrive.

[@BrianQuan]

807 is gonna be the best of both worlds in a single cups. I went with the MC4 as I found the results for espresso to be very similar to the 804! For filter I have to give the edge to the cast LS burrs.

[@Js-ng3nm]

I’m not sure if anyone have tried this before. But It would be very interesting to see a shot made with the niche and df64, 50% of beans in each grinder. How is the cup profile will taste? Maybe it can be layered in the basket flat first then conical, or mixed of the grounds

[@BensCoffeeRants]

I like that idea! I might just try that, maybe dial in each grinder individually and then grind 9grams each to get an 18g dose. I'd probably just mix it together.

[@ronnieyuen4309]

Great video Brian. Now you got me thinking again. I am primarily an espresso drinker but I brew an occasional pour over during the weekend when I have time. I own a Niche myself and wanting to get a Fellow Ode just for pour over since the Niche produces too much fine and it wasn't designed with pour over in mind etc. I drink light/medium roast and always looking for higher clarity in my cup, so this video got me thinking about either spending my budget on the Ode or get a DF64 instead. I need to keep the Niche because my family loves the classic Italian medium/dark roast stuff. So, do you recommend getting the Ode for pour over only or get the DF64 with SSP for both espresso and pour over? thank you!

[@EduDixie]

yes please! DF64 video review!

[@orrinbelcher6593]

To the point, good stuff, nicely done

[@BrianQuan]

Thank you!

[@ahpadt]

"sometimes i dont wanna be drinking battery acid" --- exec summary of nearly all light roast espresso ive ever tried.

[@robz9988]

I am curious. You say that you prefer good clarity, hence a flat, yet you have gone for the Kafatek MC4, which is a conical. I would be interested to know why. Really liked the video and the concept of trying things out for yourself rather than just relying on reviews. Applies to a lot more than just coffee too 😃

[@BrianQuan]

I've mentioned this elsewhere but the MC4 is a very clear grinder and in espresso is incredibly similar to the Ditting Lab Sweet. If you didn't know the coffee was from an MC4 you'd most likely think it is from a big flat! With most grinders it's much easier for me to say "get a big conical" but there are clear exceptions like the MC4 for conicals and 64mm SSP HU for flats (and Kafatek MD!).

[@caenorstfuji]

@@BrianQuan If the MC4 is very clear / comparable to big flat in clarity. How is it in texture in comparison to big conical? (And how is it in texture in comparison of the Ditting Lab Sweet?).

[@thesldk]

brian, you’re the best - thank you for the knowledge share. I don’t feel like i’ve seen any coffee youtube really explore what a good grinder is that can do both filter/espresso. perhaps that’s just a tall order but this is really pushing me to try df64 although i’m not quite sure if i’ll enjoy high clarity yet. what’s the difference between high clarity vs under-extracted sourness in filter coffee?

[@danielcottmain4035]

Thank you for your great videos Brian. I like the idea of low retention as well as easy cleaning with the retaining of grind settings afterwards … how might the Lagom P64 Flat Burr Grinder fit in with these as an alternative flat burr grinder?

[@EdGodoyPlana]

Excellent video! I have both the Niche and a DF64 that I upgraded to the SSP High Uniformity espresso burrs. I decided to go with the SSP High Uniformity espresso burrs because 95% of my coffee is espresso. I love my Niche but I wanted to explore the Flat Burr grinder and I thought this was a relatively not that expensive way to try it with good upgraded burrs. My preference is the Niche over the DF64 with the Hight Uniformity espresso burrs. I find the body I get with the Niche I don’t get it with the DF64 and the SSP high uniformity espresso burrs. I do see more clarity on the DF64 with the SSP burrs but the body is not there! I have also been a little disappointed with the DF64 and clogging issues , specially after I installed the SSP high uniformity espresso burrs. I replaced the silicone membrane declumper with the newer silicone membrane currently used with the grinder and a recently ( 2 month ago) replaced the silicone membrane with a plastic stencil cutout that CY ( Singapore) designed and has various KZbin videos on the DF64. I constantly need to be careful that my coffee is not started to get clogged up in the DF64. I periodically clean the grinder to avoid it getting accumulation of coffee grind in the chute around where the silicone membrane was. I have thought of upgrading the DF64 to the Lagom P64 ( with High Uniformity espresso burrs) but since I have those burrs already I am not sure it makes sense to buy it! Don’t get me wrong the DF64 is a very good grinder for the price but I am a little disappointed. For now I intend on keeping the Niche and the DF64 since they complement each other. However, I would like in the near future to review my upgrade options. Should I upgrade my Niche ( I love my Niche) to a conical grinder with larger burrs? I thought about getting the Webber EG-1 . That’s a beautiful flat burr grinder! Any suggestions? I am going to go back again and see this video again but thought I would ask the question. Suggestions? Thanks again for this and all your wonderful videos!

[@LanceHedrick]

I don't see much point in upgrading to a bigger conical unless willing the get to Monolith MC4. As for flats, sadly, there is a big lacuna between the DF64 and P64. There is a brand called Zerno working on a 64mm that should release this year at 1k. I'm intrigued. The EG1 is solid. the P100, though, for workflow, aesthetic, etc, is an increidble buy.

[@BensCoffeeRants]

I didn't find any of my DF64s tend to clog, (I had that happen once when I had it set waay too fine for espresso) but the declumper screen does hold back some coffee that you can feel when you pump the bellows. One tip that might be helpful is the pump the bellows gently AS it is grinding, so you basically encourage a nice flow of traffic! Lagom P64 is a great and beautiful grinder, just got one, I think taste / quality wise it's going to be similar to the DF64 with the same burrs, but without the quirks of the DF64, and no bellows to resort to using. Declumper on the Lagom seems to work well (I didn't realize it had one in there!), but there's a pretty big price difference. But if you're considering the EG1 I'm guessing price isn't a concern.

[@EdGodoyPlana]

@@BensCoffeeRants I am periodically cleaning the DF64 to prevent any clogging specially if I use darker beans. I have not had any major issues as long as I am on top of it. I find it’s not anywhere like the Niche that is basically maintenance free. I am still waiting to see what if anything I get to replace the DF64 with the SSP high uniformity espresso burrs I currently have. Most of my coffee is espresso and up to now I enjoy better the body I am getting from the Niche. The DF64 is the poor mans Lagom P64. For now I am still waiting to see what direction I will go.

[@BensCoffeeRants]

​@@EdGodoyPlana Oh yeah, I don't normally do too dark roasts, but I'm betting if you do a comparison I think for darker stuff, you'll like the Niche better than the DF64 anyway. If you got the stock burrs for the DF64, maybe pop those in, since those may be slightly better for darker roasts with more body, less clarity. But you might as well use the Niche I think. Even the stock burrs on the DF64 are pretty clear and I think for darker roasts not so beneficial. Niche Workflow is really nice, not too many grinders can beat it. DF64 isn't too bad, but there's better and there's definitely worse. A few cheap mods like a cup holder mod that keeps the cup closer to the spout helps with the DF64 so it's a little neater.

[@EdGodoyPlana]

@@BensCoffeeRants I don’t use dark roast all the time. Most of my coffee is actually medium roast. I hardly ever use light roast. My comment on the dark roast is that when I use the dark roast it tends to get clogged up easier the DF64. I had three coffee clogging on the DF64 that simply stopped the coffee from coming out completely. Those were with dark roast. People say that they get many fine with the Niche. That has not been my experience. I have used my Kruve Sifter on the Niche, the DF64 with the standard burrs and the SSP high uniformity espresso burrs. The DF64 standard burrs produced the most fines when I grind for espresso at about 4.82% ( less than 200) about 2.% with SSP High uniformity espresso Burrs and the Niche only produced about 1% . The DF64 workflow is not bad at all it just requires more maintenance. The Niche is basically maintenance free. I 3d printed I think every modification out there ( version of them) that I have seen for the DF64. I printed the modification for the cup holder to get it closer to the chute, the 10 degree base tilt that inclines the grinder forward 10 degree, the anti popcorning and several versions of the replacement for the silicone membrane declumper. The one I am currently using is a plastic stencil cutout that CY from Singapore designed. It has held up pretty well. When I upgraded to the SSP High uniformity espresso burrs the zero point moved all the way to 3 o’clock. I was able to obtain a new decal that I was able to place over the old one in the collar to bring the zero point back to 6 o’clock where it belongs. The first modification I got for the DF64 I was before I had my 3 D printer . I purchased from PortaKeeper one of his DF64 collar 3D print to mark the setting on the collar to be able to easily see the setting.

[@rc0mplex]

Thanks for this video. I have a 7 year old Baratza Vario (ceramic burrs) that I use for espresso only for milk drinks with medium to medium dark roasts as I prefer low acidity. Would adding a Niche Zero work for this purpose to see the difference between flats vs conicals?

[@naamheenanamikus1035]

What would you advise of someone had a hand grinder like 1zpresso k-plus. Does it lead to niche-like cups? And if so, should one get a df64 to experience the opposite kind of coffee?

[@qwet55]

Could you tell us about what slight mods are required for the DF64?

[@ThierryWasserman]

I have a Niche. I was looking exactly this. Another option is the Eureka Mignon Oro Single Dose. It's roughly the same price with stock burrs as the DF64 with SSPs. Anyone has experience with the stock 65mm by Eureka.

[@BrianQuan]

I haven't had a chance to try the Oro yet! I'll hopefully try it out in the next few months :)

[@BensCoffeeRants]

I think they're still working out the kinks on that Oro SD. I find the burr style is more like a conical, more blending of the flavours vs clarity of the DF64, even with the stock burrs. So it depends on your taste preferences. But if you already have a Niche and want something a bit different / high clarity, the DF64 (or Lagom P64 if you wanna get fancier!) is the better choice...

[@bobert6644]

What modification would you say are a must for the Df64?

[@puddingtame1787]

Very much looking forward to the video about the v1 Unimodals -- they seem like the next step for my pourovers, and I'm interested to hear how they do for espresso.

[@BrianQuan]

I'll spoiler it here but V1 are clearer than V2 but they are a PITA to dial in. They're some of the most analytical burrs I have ever used but I am unsure if that is necessarily enjoyable. V2 have a sort of roundness/sweetness to them that takes the edge off of the clarity. I think V1 are the most interesting for enthusiasts/R&D usage as they allow you to challenge yourself and also get a very perfect representation of what bean you are using. Would recommend most folks get V2 instead as they're easier to dial in (larger sweetspot) and are also VERY clear.

[@rioriggs3568]

I've been in the coffee world for 25 years... Currently looking for a new grinder and now apparently grinders have an impact on the taste profiles! When did this happen?

[@nickbrinser803]

Just got my P64 with SSP Unimodal burrs a few weeks ago to pair with my HG-1. My take on this combo I guess.

[@BrianQuan]

That's a great combo! Very contrasting cups IMO.

[@BensCoffeeRants]

The higher end version of this basically. Good combo :) I think you also chose the most beautiful grinders.

[@Gabriel.Q]

When is the full review for the Lagom Mini coming? Waiting very (im)patiently...

[@BrianQuan]

Unfortunately my backlog of videos and capacity is a little short at the moment but I'm aiming to finish it in the next few weeks!

[@vvalekk]

if you were to buy these today would you still go with the multipurpose for the DF or the lab sweet? I think im finally ready to try the flats. Also what do you think of a Baratza vario in stead of the DF? Thanks for the great content as always!

[@TC_Prof]

Bri thanks great video as always. I have sette 270wi, niche and specialita for my spro and Comandante for filter do u think ode or df64 to compliment? Thanks 🙏👌🏻

[@Saucisse_Praxis]

These are very nice grinders indeed, too bad you can't find them in Europe at the retail price or without paying 100+ shipping fees +20%VAT and duty. I have a Mahlkonig X54 whist isn't very convenient as a single dose grinder but it is a very capable option out of the box. I just hope I could find the ditting burrs or and equivalent that could fit in the grinder because barazza doesn't ship to the UE and there are no french retailers as far as I am aware :(

[@showmak]

Hi Brian, thank for your review. Do you recommend the titanium or steel burr for the DF64 for espresso?

[@arielmejia9680]

Thanks for the review... how do you handle the declumper issues? do you cut it? or it is not as big a problem as it looks, another question... do you know if SSP unimodal multi purpose is the same as the SSP red speed burr multi purpose?

[@lexdd]

Can you do a video showing me how to do V60 pour over grinds on the niche?

[@iconindexsymbol]

That's where I am in the coffee hobby! I'm lucky that there's a great coffee shop nearby that has classic and modern espresso on the menu, so I'm trying out all sorts of beans and roasts. Hopefully the next version of the Fellow Ode is espresso-capable, and I'll know whether to get that and/or the Lagom Mini. Does the Lagom have trouble grinding light roasts?

[@BrianQuan]

The Lagom can stall if you put too many beans in and they're all super lights. The simple solution is to just put in less beans each time but with something like the NZ you can just put as many as you want in lol.

[@iconindexsymbol]

Brian Quan Bummer! Sounds like it's better suited for classic espresso. Thanks for the clarification!

[@jaimegonzalezduran9037]

I have a niche and specialita. Can't play with those 64mm ssp burrs. Feelsbadman

[@BrianQuan]

It really do be like that :^(

[@JordanGrant]

So happy I found your channel! Curious your opinion for a grinder to pair with the Niche that I would use for French press, drip, etc. Generally what I use for large 8-10 cup brews so don’t want a single use grinder

[@BrianQuan]

Fellow Ode! (Full disclosure I am employed by them)

[@JordanGrant]

@@BrianQuan so I just returned the stock ode! It jammed after one use and didn’t work after I followed the video guide to unjam. Was thinking about trying the upgraded ssp burr version?

[@BrianQuan]

Ode + SSP MP are an absolutely killer combo and that specific burrset is what I'd pair with a big conical (Niche/Lagom Mini)! Huh that's strange for it to jam you may have been unlucky with the batch of odes :( The preinstalled SSP burrs are installed and calibrated at the factory so that's what I'd suggest if your budget allows!

[@JordanGrant]

@@BrianQuan my hero! Thank you. Will order now. Thinking about trying the Prima E1 espresso machine instead of the Decent. Any thoughts?

[@Habbibou]

What if you mix a coffee cup from each? Perfectly balanced coffee cup (clarity+body)? I have the niche and commandante so I am interested to know what I am missing (clarity) with flat burrs.

[@BrianQuan]

I haven't tried that out yet haha. I think an interesting experiment would be to use a conical/flat to prebreak then grind the rest through the other. Someone in the same group as me did that with the NZ and DF64 MP and they found clearer cups in all situations vs. the grinders by themselves!

[@himes1821]

I'm curious if one should do the Acaia Orbit (when it comes out) with something like the niche, to get both conical and flat burr options

[@l.rongardner2150]

Is a conical burr (such as the Niche Zero) or a flat burr grinder best for dark roast coffee beans?

[@TheCoffeeField]

Hey Brian, not sure if you have experience with Eureka Atom 75 with the 75mm Eureka stock burrs but I’m having issues with clarity and flavor separation. Most shots pulled on the Atom are more chocolates and kind of uninteresting frankly, delicious with body and texture but not exciting. I noticed the same Coffee at my local cafe I can taste more of the flavors like black team, berries, etc but none of that on the Eureka. Do you think the 64mm SSP MP will fix that?

[@BrianQuan]

Yeah SSP MP to me are generally more layered and complex than most eureka burrs which are usually more traditional focused. One thing you can try doing is pulling your shots at a much higher flowrate/turbo and a longer ratio to see if things improve!

[@TheCoffeeField]

@@BrianQuan thank you will give that a try. Also looking forward to your video on the Vario and your take on how the burrs are in terms of clarity

[@kenroman777]

@ Brian Quan with a Breville Barista Pro will these grinders still be effective in changing taste of espresso ?

[@AlejandroPDX]

Sweet video. Would you also put the DF64 over the new baratza W+ with steel burrs?

[@BrianQuan]

I haven't tried the W+ yet but I'll be doing a video about a hyper aligned forte soon.

[@Displays.1234.]

I have a Sette 270wi for 3 year's now, my question would buying a niche zone improve the flavour of my coffee, don't like acidic coffees, and like the chocolatey and fruity flavours....

[@BrianQuan]

You can probably dial in a 270 and Niche to be close enough. I'd take a look at a grinder that can use 64mm SSP HU

[@Meuchlor]

I still have a quamar q50e, so for me i should get the niche since the quamar is a flat burr system? edit: mostly espresso and cappuchino drinker, but want to get into pour over

[@Ramu-10]

Would the same thing work with a Comandante and a Kinu?

[@theshortsofAlexus]

Pretty

[@mikkoutevsky3902]

Where do the cheaper Eureka Mignon models fit in here? Something like the Filtro/Manuale/Crono/Notte (assuming you have the espresso burrs, not the new Filtro Pro burrs). I've got one of those, and I'm trying to figure out if that's giving me the True Flat Burr Experience(TM). Those are flat options that can grind for espresso for under $300, but I'm not sure where they fall for flavor profile, or whether the lack of burr upgrade options is problematic.

[@BrianQuan]

Mignon is big boomer flat energy. Tastes like a conical/choccy

[@mikkoutevsky3902]

@@BrianQuan Iiiiiinteresting. So the pairing would be DF64/Mignon? (and the Niche is more of a linear upgrade from Mignon, if I wanted to improve the workflow?)

[@miguelcorreia7034]

How about the Compak e5 ? I don’t see people talking about Compak grinders .

[@BrianQuan]

IMO for 1k+ you should get a grinder that has 64mm+ flats. I have a few friends who have run compaks and they are not very friendly home grinders (size, retention, etc)

[@ThunderRunner]

For someone who likes to rotate pretty frequently between light/medium/and the occasional darkish roast(relative), what would you recommendation be? I have a Niche, have had a Specialita, and am considering a df64 but am curious how it would handle anything medium/dark

[@BrianQuan]

Check out my video on 64mm SSP burrs! If you're going DF64 I'd get SSP MP to have a contrasting setup.

[@SuperSecretJohn]

If I own a conical burr grinder, I can also just ask the place where I buy my beans for a double shot for the flat burr grinder experience, right?

[@BrianQuan]

If you can use same coffee and try to replicate what they are doing in the shop it might be an exercise worth performing! It's difficult to remember what coffee tastes like though but it might be worth asking the shop if you can try coffee pulled from their setup vs your own (like actually bring your grinder over there!).

[@UAE78]

I would suggest niche zero plus eureka oro mignon single dose

[@BensCoffeeRants]

Is there that much of a difference in taste between the two? I thought the Eureka seemed pretty conical like, it's pretty similar to my Conical K-Plus hand grinder, which I remember being similar to the Niche, but haven't compared the Eureka directly to the Niche since I re-sold the Niche, didn't have them both at the same time unfortunately.

[@NashvilleFanatic]

Would it be unfair to compare flat and conical with Lagom's Mini vs P64?

[@BrianQuan]

Absolutely not as the burrset you can fit in the P64 determines most things here! A Lagom Mini and P64 with SSP MP are a great contrasting pairing. Whereas a Lagom Mini and 48mm obsidian are fairly close to a P64 with SSP HU!

[@AriessGroup]

So the fellow ode still too coarse if using ssp burrs multipurpose? Or am i missing something, cz your previous video said it can make good espresso if upgrade to ssp burrs

[@daniellee8544]

My understanding is that with SSP burrs on the Fellow, you can grind as fine as you like. However, you may be prematurely shortening the life of your motor, which was never rated for those kinds of loads. So it may be that Brian is hesitant to recommend doing that since it increases the likelihood that you will burn out your motor.

[@Simssss888]

Great Explanation, it's right about my current thought process about buying a single dose espresso grinder(which maybe can filter). Like others i am right in the middle, i really enjoy body and sweetness in the cup but in the end i want to taste aromas. I can and i want as well as i do with good Scotch for example. If i get the DF64 with cheaper burrs (Standard or titanium which is around 500€ then), would you say i get what i want here in a way? I thought about the Niche as well but would want to spend less than 500€ ...

[@Gabriel.Q]

Comparing between the DF64 and Lagom Mini 48mm for a first serious grinder, which do you recommend? I do mostly V60 currently. Both are very similar priced (as stock) where I'm from. Hope to hear your thoughts!

[@BrianQuan]

What roast levels are you usually drinking?

[@Gabriel.Q]

Thanks for the response! I usually go for light to medium roasts

[@Timberjagi]

as somebody who owns both i would personally go for the mini. very good for V60 and earopress style grinding. are you planning on buying a espresso machine i would opt the DF64 as otherwise you keep on buying grinders. The biggest problem for me its all about taste, 2 employees of mine like espresso from the mini while me and my wife love the DF64.

[@VivekRamadoss]

I thought typically flat burrs tend to highlight chocolate, nutty flavors and conical burrs more clarity, acidic, and fruity notes. But you seem to say the opposite. Why is that? Other reviewers also say the DF64 is less acidic.

[@BensCoffeeRants]

Yeah I noticed sometimes people mix em around. I think you can really get either result based on the coffee itself AND how you brew the coffee, more than from the grinder itself. Under extracted = Sour, / Over extracted = Bitter. In my experience, when I first got a conical burr grinder, I thought everything tasted sour and unbalanced, I thought, ok I really don't like conical burrs, but after a while of persisting and using them the burrs got seasoned and it changed, I think conical burrs are generally more in need of seasoning than flat burrs are (perhaps due to the larger surface area?) I think a lot of hate conical seem to get, is from people who tried a new grinder with unseasoned burrs. Both my Niche Zero and K plus hand grinder had that same profile at first, unabalanced and acidic. I did re-sell the Niche but thought it got better after about 2 months (with occasional use) just before I resold it. The K-Plus I kept and compared to other grinders and before it was noticeably different (in a bad way) now I'm surprised by how great it can be. I did end up getting another barely used (not seasoned) Niche Zero more recently and strangely it didn't seem to need seasoning not sure if they changed something like they pre-seasoned the burrs or what.

[@VivekRamadoss]

@@BensCoffeeRants Thanks for your reply! Yeah I just really don't like acidic coffee and am trying to decide between the Niche Sero and DF64.

[@BensCoffeeRants]

@@VivekRamadoss Some balanced acidity can be nice with a good coffee. I think your coffee, brew temp and brew ratio will control that more than the grinder really. I've done a coffee at 200f with a super light roast 18g in 36g out sometimes it was a bit acidic, I let it flow just a little longer to 39g and it's more balanced.

[@BrianQuan]

It really depends on which exact burr you're comparing here. You can have flats optimized for chocolate/nut like the 64mm SSP HU+Kafatek MD or have more clarity optimized conicals like the C40/MC4. So it's really difficult to generalize (gonna make a video on this) one style of burr being better than another!

[@BensCoffeeRants]

@@BrianQuan I didn't find the SSP High Uniformity espresso burrs to be much more optimized for chocolatey/ nut drinks (maybe a bit more vs the Unimodals) but quite different from the Eureka burr style which I think is more optimized for that (with less clarity).

[@kylekwong9772]

Would you say the cheaper alternatives are good options for people who don't have plan for espresso?

[@BrianQuan]

C40 + Ode w/SSP MP or Vario if you are willing to modify!

[@kylekwong9772]

By modding, are you referring to the alignment mod?

[@BrianQuan]

@@kylekwong9772 yeah the hyper alignment/alicorn project

[@Ramu-10]

Filter on the Niche is a little sus 😳

[@JPC326]

How would the lagom mini compare to the 1Zpresso K Plus ?

[@LastAphelion]

I've heard they're extremely close or rather I've heard the K burr and C40 are almost identical and same with C40 and Mini 48. It's the only thing holding me back from buying a Mini since I already own a K, I want to experience something different.

[@BensCoffeeRants]

The biggest difference is that you get less exercise with the Lagom Mini. :D (Haven't actually used the mini, but I have the K plus and it's pretty great).

[@Yirgamalabar]

Would I get a similar experience from a Sette 270Wi (which I own and love) and a DF64 with stock burrs? It's a combo that's a lot less expensive than a NZ + DF64/SSP, but does it provide a good representation of the differences between conical and flat burr grinders?

[@LanceHedrick]

the answer is a resounding yes. Is the niche better than the sette? yes. But not leaps and bounds. Are the SSP burrs better than stock? Yes, but they don't redefine flat burr profiles to the point that stock burrs wont be somewhat representative of flat profiles.

[@NashvilleFanatic]

Lance! So great to see you supporting your buds viewers. :)

[@kenroman777]

@ OB I just got the Wi and really like the ease of exact weights, but wih my Barista Pro I am having an incredibly difficult time dialing in light-medium espresso, such that I am ready to go back to tea because of the frustration. In your opinion am I fighting a losing battle with Wi/Barista Pro/light-medium espresso ?

[@Yirgamalabar]

@@kenroman777 I actually find the 270Wi easier to dial in with light and medium roasts than my manual grinder (1Zpresso JX Pro). I don't even bother with WDT because the grind is so fluffy and clump-free. A few pointers though: - Use a leveler (e.g OCD tool) and a self-leveling tamper. - Pack the maximum amount of coffee that allows you to attach and detach the portafilter (before brewing) without seeing any signs of the shower screen touching the coffee. - If despite the above you get channeling, add a puck screen - If your Breville is among the models that don't really heat up the portafilter even if you let the machine warm up for 15 minutes, dunk the portafilter into a pot of boiling water, then dry it out and grind the coffee into it, etc.. Good luck!

[@JackJonner]

Chasing coffee nirvana is a waste of money and time.

[@MalcolmKok]

Would choose df64 over the lagom mini?

[@BrianQuan]

Depending on burrset and what you're after yes. Stock + 64 HU no, but 64 MP yes. I'd also pair the Mini w/48mm and the 64 MP together!

[@MalcolmKok]

@@BrianQuan thanks for your reply! I am limited by counter space so I can’t have more than one! But in many user reports, they seem to favor more df64 over others in the sub usd$500-700 category. Myself, I’m leaning towards trying a affordable flat 64 burrs as an upgrade over my current 48 conical

[@BrianQuan]

@@MalcolmKok You must have a really small counter if you can't fit a mini + DF64! They're pretty small haha

[@whoissb]

One major flaw with dF64 design that I have not heard any reviewers mention is that df64 can’t maintain the burr alignment during grinding. The threaded collar has just enough play that the burrs wobble and touch during grinding for espresso, where the gap between the burrs is narrow. That why you hear high pitch metallic sound during the grinding,, which is unlike any other grinder that I’ve heard. That’a the disappointing aspect of the grinder since the build quality seems pretty good, and it is aesthetically pleasing. I just couldn’t live with such a design flaw and returned mine, even though the grinder can produce a decent tasting results.

[@BensCoffeeRants]

Is that a thing? The threaded collar has pretty fine threads, it's like 5 big turns to tighten it down. I don't think I understand.

[@منصورالقويعي-ل7ق]

Can you clarify

[@BensCoffeeRants]

@@منصورالقويعي-ل7ق I've also heard someone else say when you push down on the Bellows that it affects the grind size and moves the burrs a tiny bit. I think that maybe what he's talking about. Someone told me they put the grinder close to the touch point had it running and hit the Bellows and then they noticed the burrs were touching. I haven't tried the experiment myself. If that's the case then hitting the Bellows while grinding may slightly affect grind consistency. Not a reason to return a grinder though.

[@BensCoffeeRants]

@@منصورالقويعي-ل7ق oh I think I know what they're talking about actually it's not that. I think they're burr carrier was out of spec. I had one df64 out of like 5 that had a different sound like a rubbing noise it might have been a similar issue. Still worked alright. Just alignment would never be perfect.

[@MrJusmobile]

I just would not buy either one, I do not like them, sorry. I don't think they perform as advertised when I tried them, just my opinion.

[@BrianQuan]

What do you prefer instead?

[@jinsongdai545]

@@BrianQuan He is telling a lie, he will not buy or try DF64 based on his reply to another DF64 review (human right or something like that, what a joke!).

[@CBCEDD]

Niche is easy to use but man is the design horrible. From the unnecessary large badge, weird wood and colour body combo and $2 radio shack SPST switch....

[@ende421]

I like the switch. And color wise it fits perfectly on my oak counter top with the white ceramic sink.

[@BensCoffeeRants]

I like the badge. Most people think it's cute, some people don't like that it looks like a nice little juicer, and maybe they like something a little meaner looking maybe. Kinda like an old Miata, it's too cute, some guys wouldn't buy it. Based on its performance I don't think I'd really care.

[@منصورالقويعي-ل7ق]

The switch is my favorite

[@BensCoffeeRants]

@@منصورالقويعي-ل7ق yep many espresso machines have the same satisfying switch. They work, and Probably less likely to have issues than a button.

[@oskar_the_black]

Incel take

[@user-nl2kt9jc9p]

More decent content please!!

[@mspdec]

Great video Brian. Would be great if you could get hold of the new Eureka Mignon Oro Single Doser to compare with the DF64, Niche and more expensive TOTL Grinders you have been assessing.

[@BensCoffeeRants]

I tried it, Eureka Oro is surprisingly different to the DF64, lower clarity, it seems more conical-like to me, maybe just a more traditional espresso profile, it blends flavours together more, which can be a good thing with certain coffees (had some really nice chocolate tasting ones I didn't like on the DF64) not so great if you like high clarity where you can pick apart the individual flavour notes on a light roast coffee. DF64 is good for that, but for darker roasts, it's maybe not as great. I had issues with my Eureka Oro, so it's back to the shop for repairs (they seem to have quality control issues with this one). Niche Zero conical burrs in general blend flavours together as well, in a pleasing way, also giving you lots of body and mouthfeel.

[@guidoserrano2629]

Comandante + Feld47 + DF64