Compressed Air Supercharging? - Bullshit?

Original video - • Compressed Air Superch...
In this video we look at the CAS system, and does it work?
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[@nothanks3462]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, for real power you need to be scavenging the gas that is conveniently pre filtered through the drivers seat!

[@CZ350tuner]

You missed out the eliminated engine loading over a conventional supercharger boost system. The energy used to compress the air in the cylinders is from an external source (compressor) so isn't harvested from the engine as with a supercharger.

[@dirtygarageguy]

LOL no I didn't - I've covered that loads of time. This is about the system. And if you wanna go down that road (pun intended) then a supercharger lasts a lot longer than 10 seconds (or at least it should do LOL)

[@jediknight1294]

@@dirtygarageguy basically then isn't this more an alternative to Nitrous than 'supercharging' just it exploits the same reason that a supercharger adds power?

[@forevercomputing]

In those 10 seconds or less, I'm free.

[@Stu-SB]

Fuck it... I'm going for a pair of Soda Stream bottles !

[@Fridgemusa]

If you're going to be carrying those bottles onboard you may as well have them both full of N2O!

[@dirtygarageguy]

Apart from nitrous cooks rings - but yeah

[@TheDr1Acula]

Be aware of danger to manifold!

[@phillyphil1513]

what's the cost of refilling a bottle of N20 vs. a Scuba tank...? honestly never used the stuff. yes might be better deal considering the density of 02 received. also does the price of N20 fluctuate like other commodities might, you know, like a barrel of Oil or Natural Gas...?

[@Pgcmoore]

true

[@Fridgemusa]

@@dirtygarageguy No, but it can snap them if you don't check your ring gap :)

[@06general066]

This is literally a shitty nitrous system lol

[@Pgcmoore]

true

[@brieflean]

Safer too

[@JSabh]

So.. yes it does work and it is not really bullshit? your making a point or two but still, coming off like a hater lol

[@dirtygarageguy]

"coming off like a hater" - I think this is my fault, as in I didn't mention what this video was about or what context it was in. People were asking is this a viable option as a supercharger period.

[@jasonfriars7870]

Bendix PBS System for diesel engines. BENDIX shows the complexity of ancillary equipment and the limits of what can be done. When one can do the math it's not as simple as compressed air tanks.

[@woodsmanjay5833]

Well now I might have to do a jiggy and see if I can blow my motorcycle up. 5 bar non supercharged 125 😂💨

[@djmystery7235]

What if you got small bottles that can hold 10,000 PSI? I don’t even know if that exists.

[@pesho9971]

You can mix the air in the bottle with nitrous oxide for example(5-10% maybe) or increase the oxygen level.You can make whatever blend you want but as you said it will only last a couple of seconds.Cool idea tho but not new or revolutionary.

[@jackking5567]

Gotta remember the amount of horsepower that superchargers take to run is being removed by using this system.

[@matthewfredrickmfkrz1934]

Nitrous is better since it releases o² when it hits 1200°f and doesn't need a valve to close intake... Though directly injecting air into a combustion chamber would be interesting...

[@dirtygarageguy]

"Gotta remember the amount of horsepower that superchargers take to run is being removed by using this system." - true, but 10 seconds......

[@funcounting]

@@matthewfredrickmfkrz1934 You can inject nitrous that way as well and use it instead of air, no?

[@matthewfredrickmfkrz1934]

@@funcounting idk I've seen lots of variation placing nitrous ports for different reasons... Probably one of those circumstances where ideality and practicality don't intersect

[@jackking5567]

@@dirtygarageguy 10 seconds but your lass is happy with that ;)

[@jeroenboree4510]

Paul Hallam a tuner from Australia designed and made an boxer engine that was sort of pressure feet by the crankcase pressure. Called the Ecoforce EcoH. He even made a prototype that run, but that was it.

[@aserta]

"for drag racing only" American truck companies would like a word with you. This is used to pump up numbers on small engine trucks. Trucks are the best platform for this on account of already having the compressed air system.

[@dirtygarageguy]

And which systems are these - do you have a model, name link?

[@davespooney8472]

Are you stressed out Matt? Hate to see my 5th fave youtuber down in the dumps. I’m going to buy you an imaginary pint lad. 🍺

[@nixie2462]

What if instead of using the intake, you ran a "richer" engine (while you boost it) and injected compressed air into the chamber as soon as the intake valve closed?

[@1gt4dude]

Click bait. There is no informative content here, move along and save 9 minutes of your life.

[@dirtygarageguy]

Knobhead comment - no brain cells here

[@chocolate_squiggle]

Wot if..... hehe lol here we go.... 3300 psi seems like a fuck of a lot. Wot if...instead of pissing about wiv the fancy system to block off your intakes and all that rubbish....and you just strapped the bottle to the back of your bike with the nozzle facing backwards, and when you want to go faster you just lop the nozzle off with a machete? Do you think 3300 psi pissing out the back all at once would make the bike go any faster? Serious question.

[@dirtygarageguy]

Yes, how much? Well its the mass of the air x its aceleration. So 3300/15 psi = 220. Air weighs in about 0.00129KGs per litre and you have about 15litres x 220 which = 3300 funnily enough so that 4.257 kgs of air. If we acelerate that say instantly to the speed of sound (343m/s) then that's 1460N or 328lbs of thrust. With a bike weighing in at 200kgs + 100kgs for rider and fuels etc we get Bike mass 300kgs Force = 1460N so 1460/300 = 4.866 m/s^2 which is an aceleration of about an extra 10 mph every second. So you'd think for 10 seconds you'll be doing an extra 100mph, however as the bottle empties the pressure drops off, so you go from 10mph down to zero. So over 10 seconds you theoretically could be going 55 mph faster. This is the perfect example though. More like 30mph after 10 seconds.

[@chocolate_squiggle]

​@@dirtygarageguy Far out, thanks fella you're golden! I got as far as thinking it would be the 3300 psi trying to equalise with atmospheric pressure outside the bottle, and throw in the mass of that air somewhere, but that's all I had. Obviously a balloon let go flies around, but with the weight of a bike and rider combined I wasn't really sure it would accelerate them much. I'm surprised, but then 3300psi is pretty mind boggling to me. I guess if you're already doing a decent clip on the motorway then the force from the bottle would be the same but the practical mph effect might be lessened due to already high drag? Oh I bet that can go down several rabbit holes though, Gah it's holidays - have a day off lad :-) Thanks again.

[@lukerose5190]

Maybe plan or cut the video better next time so we don't have to watch you think for 10 minutes

[@dirtygarageguy]

1) Maybe stop whining like a bitch 2) Liking your own comment is as sad as fuck

[@mordikal]

Ford did something similar in the WRC series but with a rechargeable Tank in the Bumper

[@funcounting]

Can't you make the bottles a structural part of the chassis though? Like putting them inside monocoque's arches or something.

[@dirtygarageguy]

possibly - but then the internal stress on the tank is not something you want to worry about when its holding your wheels together - not only that but I think all of the compressed gas laws will have something to say about it - do you wanna change your chassis every 5 years?

[@funcounting]

@@dirtygarageguy Depends on how the law works. For example you could just drive with empty gas tanks to your MOT and say you never fill them up. Or if you're doing serious pro racing with it you might as well just replace it every 5 years. And yeah, you don't want to worry about it but people do the same with engines and they probably never wanted to worry about something like that either. Wonder if you could just have rocket fuel tanks and mix oxidizer and combustible inside the chamber via direct injection. You wouldn't need intake at all, perfect 2-stroke design, lmao. No idea how you'd deal with heat in something like that tho.

[@funcounting]

@@dirtygarageguy Oh and for a possibly cooler idea, can't you have an aluminium alloy monocoque that has a water jacket inside it and use the whole car as a radiator, or at least have the diffuser plate under the car. It would have have a huge surface area even without cooling fins and would give you a lower center of gravity.

[@eurobeatmachinist732]

I just inject oxygen from gas welding bottle to my intake. Straight up 180bar to the intake makes a decent power.

[@Mp-jw1qg]

LOL. detonation much

[@crazyham]

I just wonder if an energy efricient air compressor may be able maintain tank pressure & give slightly more advantage over the losses, increasing overall efficiency? I guess efficiency would depend a lot on the design and tech of the Electric Motor for the Air Compressor along with the Alternator /Charging Set Up too.🤔

[@Stephane1995]

How about using a Venturi to suck in more air, similar to how aircraft slides are inflated?

[@beachboardfan9544]

Cant possibly trust a man with 4 names

[@Stephane1995]

@@beachboardfan9544 can't argue with that. I'll see myself out.

[@dirtygarageguy]

You could do.

[@AlexA-qx9pn]

Something tells me you would get problems with restrictions, they're would be a lot more restriction through the engine path presumably then out the sides of the venturi that you're trying to suck more air in through so it would end up flowing back and pissing out everywhere. Inflating a slide is pretty easy even though it's a dead end because until it fills up the pressure is the same one either side of the slide's membrane. When going through an engine manifold there are pressure waves slamming about and the goal with forced induction is to get the whole thing at a significant pressure difference to outside. I'm not an engineer but that seems about right, to put it in a more intuitive way I would think it's the difference between inflating some armbands, which is nackering but doable, to trying to inflate a 2l bottle, as soon as it flexes all the slack out of itself it's practically impossible to force more air into it with lung power. Of course this only applies to the type of venturi that has an intake at the low pressure point that's being used as a pump, not the "sealed" types used to manipulate pressure like on the nozzle of a jet engine or underfloor of a formula one car. TL;DR IMHO a venturi with some holes in it would increase the mass of air being sucked in but wouldn't increase it's density very effectively. If it was that simple we would probably see venturis being used with forced induction already since they're relatively simple devices.

[@chrisdavidson911]

@@AlexA-qx9pn i think what's meant is using the gas bottle as the rocket in this kzbin.info/www/bejne/gqSTYXiYYtqVZpI

[@timdryden3778]

for drag racing could a higher concentration of o2 to n, maybe 42/ 57 allow for more fuel to be used per charge, and there for result in more power, assuming you can deal with the extra heat? I know I'm reaching. THANKS, the workshop ROCKS.

[@dirtygarageguy]

depends on the class and their rules

[@Mp-jw1qg]

you would need more air to burn it

[@timdryden3778]

@@Mp-jw1qg --42% oxygen/57% nitrogen is more, prehaps my question is vague thanks

[@Mp-jw1qg]

@@timdryden3778 dont forget to factor in volumetric efficiency .

[@chasingcapsaicin]

More the heat added compressing air being the problem with regenerating a system like that. Still massively crazy boost, wonder if it could be done chemically, doh.. not going there, end up in rocket land at that point

[@tomsfruitstand6821]

If I have someone sit in my engine bay and shart into my intake will my 1/4 mile time go from a 14 sec to and 8 sec?

[@xwrighty]

Why is Dell putting an Armadillo on a Harley

[@Pgcmoore]

lol, he could have started with a hub cap and saved time

[@t_c5266]

I would like to see a small high pressure air compressor that takes off of the alternator. Just powers it when you're driving around no problem with the excess energy your alternator is already generating, and cuts off when you get to your max pressure. Yes I agree its hazardous as hell, but natural gas vehicles ride around all day long at 3600psi, so its not unheard of. It'd refill the bottles in about 10 minutes, so if you're really just using a squirt here and there for heavy acceleration, you'd likely never run out. A supercharger is parasitic and ALWAYS putting more load on the engine, and a turbocharger is massively complex and puts an even higher load on the engine + much more heat. This seems like a happy medium where your engine will make it to 150k miles but you can have a little fun on the way edit: i did the math and it equates to almost exactly 10 seconds of runtime if the total bottle volume is 15L and the engine is demanding 750 CFM

[@BigBadLoneWolf]

what would happen if you used pure oxygen instead of compressed air ?

[@jonseyq45]

Im working on a system that similar....put a CR 500 reed in intake below air filter above high pressure source with intake side reed valve facing air filter........... no expensive valve needed, yes...none more intake flow needed add a second reed.... like transfer on 2 stroke

[@alexappleby8677]

Didn't Audi use compressed air to spool up the turbos in thier first-anti lag system in the group B days? Just listen to the wastegates chirping in S1 and S2 videos!!

[@CG-vd4rh]

matt, look up 'turbonique'

[@jamest.5001]

Are they using O2 ? Or nitrogen mix. Just air or what. You could use O2 and make loads of power for a second!!!!

[@InItForTheParking]

One thing you did miss: All the air coming from a tank means that natural factors that come into play for your traditional engine have no effect on it. Take the Pike's Peak Airstrip Attack drag race. You would be running on about 12% O2 while this can be charged at sea level, around 20% O2, and brought there...if not just a custom mix that means the engine runs at peak performance no matter where it is.

[@dirtygarageguy]

for 10 seconds

[@InItForTheParking]

@@dirtygarageguy Do your supercharged drag races take longer than that?

[@ptbelttactics]

So.... just like a turbo?

[@DerpyRedneck]

I think the mechanical pressure regulators and high flow valves these guys made for this system would be better off being used to make a fueling system for LNG powered airplanes to be honest. It'd go a little bit farther on lng than on kerosene, burns much cleaner, you can make it from many renewable sources if the govs and oil corporations would let businesses start building and using their own mini-electric grids powered by gen 3 nuke reactors or the microreactors that they have that can be carried by 18 wheelers. Yeah, kinda thought about this in detail for a couple years you could say. Hello from Lousiana!

[@John-rw9bv]

I’m thinking of trying it out for the same reasons, because of the energy density of LPG it just makes sense. But why not both? In 2021 im going to try converting Subaru EJ20s over to LPG/Compressed air. Two tanks in the flatbed. It’s the fiberglass tanks,

[@leewright1985]

Imagine regenerative braking but with a Heath Robinson system of belts and pulleys that drove a compressor every time you pressed the 'brake' pedal. I think I'm on to something, if you need me I'll be down the patents office...

[@ninjanelly3506]

So what is the benefit over nitrous oxide? Cost of filling the bottle?....And I take it you have no throttle when it is operating? Just a solenoid to start it off? That is some pressure to have in your boot,at least it’s not flammable!🤔🤔🤔

[@phillyphil1513]

TOTAL LOSS SUPERCHARGING. kinda similar to the compressed Nitrogen tanks in F1 or a MotoGP bikes powering the return side of the pneumatic valves. the energy required is provided separate and apart and thus not parasitic to the system.

[@petrolheadJJ]

This reminds me of the bright idea a guy I knew, had: To cool the intake air with the car's air conditioning. A sound idea, only the air con would have to be big enough for an icehockey arena.

[@buddyywilsonn]

Are you sure it would have to be that big of a/c?

[@valentinbassieux7366]

@@buddyywilsonn To get enough air flow through for the engine it would probably need to be so big it wouldn't fit in the engine bay. Probably not even in the boot as well 😂

[@ptbelttactics]

That guy was on to something. Today, the AC system is used to cool down the charge temperature on supercharged engines.

[@thomasphilyaw8593]

Yes it works, but what a waste of time and effort. Throw a turbo on it and call it a day. While their trying to "fill" their bottles back up were in the pub having a pint... or 2. Cheers Matt

[@crazyham]

Awesome Explanation, Thank You 🙏

[@benjaminfrappier9222]

Could they combine this with nitrous oxyde to increase the O2 concentration?

[@dirtygarageguy]

Yeah but you already have to worry about heat just running higher boost, even with lower intake temperatures - Nitrous = bad LOL

[@beachboardfan9544]

Would only be useful for driving underwater

[@phillyphil1513]

OTR diesels have their own engine driven on board compressor. since they already have a turbo, of course the air is used to power a fault tolerant braking system.

[@pauldean8638]

They are carbon fibre bottles not carbon jacketed, also they are well bigger than 15 litres ,if it weighs the same as a complete blower and produce more power then your saving mechanical stress on the motor running a blower ,especially when they go bang ,how many drags you seen on the line and it rips the blower straight off the motor ,in reverse if motor goes then it just blows intake pipes off ,I was bewildered by new system but if it's proven then we see them more in use on the strip

[@dirtygarageguy]

"They are carbon fibre bottles not carbon jacketed" - wrong. "158 scf Aluminum Inner, Carbon Fiber overwrap" From their site here - casupercharging.com/tech/#Air-Storage-Modules In future know what you're talking about.

[@reesetrescott6339]

Instead of bypassing your a/c compressor just turn it into a air compressor with a switch that automatically kicks it off after so much psi so the tanks will refill themselves

[@dirtygarageguy]

Volume...

[@mitchellbaker4847]

Aww here was me hoping at the end you were talking about a variable compression engine, i.e. a knock engine for fuel octane testing.

[@pauls.5815]

They make 4500PSI carbon fiber tanks now.

[@trevorellis1704]

Has anyone tried to recover energy from motorcycle braking/brakes? Might that be easier for electric bikes ?

[@zperdek]

What about regenerative breaking with engine which would pump and compress air into small tank?

[@dirtygarageguy]

What about it? Have you seen a reliable system yet?

[@motochaos1054]

Buy a eBay turbo and tune it for low boost you will notice a good gain

[@dreddwailing6395]

It might come in useful if you live near a lake and enjoy drink driving

[@kermit30au]

Cheak out the flautula backfire system. Mercedes smart for 2 use it.

[@TheMindInvader]

This brings us the Virtues of Nirtros Oxide.

[@guillo88]

could you use a pure 0xigen bottle? isnt that the best way?

[@carcaridon]

Probably got kidnapped by Garrett and bds

[@yolofullsend]

It's cool from an efficiency standpoint but realistically m eninges can make more than enough power with regular forms of boost.

[@zo__zo6834]

Those are some big fekkin valves behind you

[@dirtygarageguy]

LOL yes

[@smuggeler]

What if you shoot pure oxygen????

[@jompazx1272]

why? we already got nitrous

[@Goguleroma]

Maybe it's lame, but is the first thing that passed through my head. If they are using compressed air @ 3300psi why don't they use direct O2 instead?

[@jamest.5001]

The only thing I could think of. Is the cryogenic side of it! A engine gulps room fulls of air per second at full throttle.. It's hard to get that much air in a tank! Then to double it a few times to compress the inlet flow!

[@Mp-jw1qg]

this would work great on a direct injection engine. fuel goes straight into cylinder, delete the air intake manifold entirely, run 2 electronic air valves per intake runner sort of how you would do ITB but each set of valves, 1 provides the pressure, the second bleeds excess in a closed system so each intake runner has its own control.. this way a standalone ecu could easily use the signals to map the solenoids , match the boost pressure based on rpm just like a supercharged engine and you could probably get a full mile out of 2 decent sized air tanks. its not a bad idea and the technology exists, its just that you can bolt a turbo and get the same performance.

[@dirtygarageguy]

There's isn't enough air. A 50 litre bottle @ 200 bar is only 10,000 litres. At 10k rpm for a 1 litre engine you only 1 minutes, and thats at 1 atmosphere. If you want boost then you only get 30 seconds for 1 bar boost. For drag racing they run far higher than that

[@Mp-jw1qg]

@@dirtygarageguy that depends entirely on volumetric efficiency. my bmw for example is 95% volumetric efficiency and at 40 psi it flows 8 cubic feet of air per minute. the car is an 8.50 drag car so it would only need enough compressed air to run for 10 seconds tops. you could easily get a bottle that can hold enough air to flow 8scfm at 40 psi.

[@Mp-jw1qg]

@@dirtygarageguy p + 1 2 ρ v 2 + ρ g h = constant. v= velocity of air coming out of a nozzle. you have a bunch of different variables that you have to figure in. I know of 2 cars that run this type of setup and have dual 100 gallon tanks and they run 1000whp off of small block chevy engines modified with custom carburators that switch over to direct injection with air solenoids. theyre working on an ls version now.

[@dirtygarageguy]

40 psi gauge pressure not absolute.

[@dirtygarageguy]

Your other issue is the nozzle at the bottle as a flow restriction

[@kraken6095]

I'm thinking about adding a 12v air compressor for forced induction

[@dirtygarageguy]

Lol good luck with that...

[@jasonfriars7870]

Bendix PBS system for diesel engines is what a particle application looks like. The ancillary equipment is well thought out and applied by people who know how to do math. Not simple.

[@Pgcmoore]

nos would make more sense

[@Douknowgregg]

They do the same thing with carbon fiber in paintball airtanks compressed air tanks that are carbon fiber wrapped are rated at 4500 psi but most fields air compressors fill to 4000

[@Tuckerclan]

You totally didn't answer anything. What was the point of this video? We know it's just for 10 seconds, not for all day use. I was expecting hp differences between this system, blower system, turbo system, NOS system. The only thing that's Bullshit is this video.

[@dirtygarageguy]

Is it me, or are you stupid? The title clearly says 'bullshit?' as in does the system work, and how does it work., Just because you wanted "hp differences between this system, blower system, turbo system, NOS system." - doesn't mean that's what you're gonna get. And how could you compare HP numbers? For what engine, and which system? It's simple fuck nut, if the system supplies the same mass flow rate as 'x' turbo then the power will be the same... This is just a demo of your stupidity...

[@dlewis9760]

Captain Obvious.

[@colta51]

Would it not be more effective having a pneumatic diff drive and blasting the air into that and just eliminating the petrol engine etc.. 🤔

[@jonasfrito2]

Anybody knows about injecting hi pressure air directly in the chamber after intake closes?

[@jackking5567]

Actually... back in my 50 to 125cc bike days, we'd noticed that the engines ran far far better on cooler misty foggy Autumn days - is that to do with the engines being able to take more energy in per stroke??

[@WICKEDGIXXERL]

Yes cold air is more dense

[@ico9750]

Now the kids call it "boost weather"

[@butre.]

cold air is more dense, and air cooled 2 strokes tend to be kept a little rich since they tend to burn holes in the pistons at perfect stoichiometry. on a cool day they're getting closer to a perfect mix and thus make a little more power. the higher humidity also keeps it cooler than if it was just jetted stoichio on a hot day

[@barrybritcher]

Volvo have some compressed air boost thing on factory cars now

[@dirtygarageguy]

for what?

[@barrybritcher]

@@dirtygarageguy to eliminate turbo lag

[@barrybritcher]

@@dirtygarageguy kzbin.info/www/bejne/iaOYnp6pnZtrd5Y

[@dirtygarageguy]

LOL look at the fucking size of that thing! No thanks

[@barrybritcher]

@@dirtygarageguy looking at the comments apparently it's a bag of wank

[@miles11we]

Breh

[@darraghgrassick2549]

🤨

[@adivarso8175]

1

[@FuqUYouTube]

You have any opinions on using a single or double stage air compressor as a ghetto supercharger?.. More so, im wondering about converting a 25cc weed eater into a supercharger for 50cc mini bike..? I got the junk and idea down, just not the machinery..

[@thundercuntinashoefullofpiss]

fords cosworth dept used compessed air tanks to develop there 1st turbo the tanks used were 5 times the size of a car but gave critical real time data to the limit of air the ford engine could use or was viable due to the cylinder head melting point.. once the optimal psi was established the turbo was designed to deliver the same ratio at the RPM cosworth chose to close gearchange ... put into practice this system took time (AKA SPOOLING UP ) or AKA (TURBO LAG) so its safe to say YES THE BIGGER THE COMPESSED AIR TANK = THE MORE SECS OF POWER wich u put down to a useless 10 secs per 36kg or 2 tanks am i right? .... r u forgeting most supercars go 0-60 in under 5 secs????.... imagine being 18 just passed your test sat at the lights with an aston martin & your in a citroen c1 lol 1 18kg tank of compessed air will give u 5 secs of boost & used right i think any teenager would implement this system as a cheap way 2 go quick!!!... the word turbo & teenager dont mix when it comes to insurance but using a tank of air 2 see any flash bastard in your rear mirror... PRICELESS

[@Youtubeforcedmetochangemyname]

For a bike I woukd rather have a turbo