The Fakes of War Thunder | Fake Tank Friday

[@ConeOfArc]

What's your opinion on this topic? Did I miss any tanks you might consider fake or fantastical?

[@peculiarjack617]

This comment is edited because I was wrong, if you wanna kno then ask GetDunced

[@blackberet9997]

The Char B1 Ter could probably have gone on the list, given that, while certainly real, and pre-production models were completed(modified from B1 hulls), the actual production model, which had a fair few differences from the pre-production model, never saw total completion, only partial.

[@threestrikes1448]

Can you do brawl (from transformers) next?

[@thehumanoddity]

To clarify about the Ho-Ri, the mess came out of a miscommunication between Gaijin and their Japanese researchers with Mai being one in particular. The specifications for the Ho-Ri were initially 75 mm on the front in total which is where they got the numbers for the Ho-Ri Prototype. That is the one directly based off of the mockup with the only difference being the driver's hatch that Gaijin added onto it. The Ho-Ri Production mixed up a engine proposal, the specifications of the Ho-Ri II, and the planned performance of the gun in what you can truly call a fake tank. The 1,100 hp engine was proposed and drafted but never completed or actually considered to be put into it, the Ho-Ri II specifications is where the 125 mm UFP come from, and the gun uses the planned performance of the experimental 10 cm tank gun (long) which was to penetrate 200 mm at 1,000 m/s. In reality, it only reached a velocity of 900 m/s in firing tests. The only part I don't get where they got the information from is the thickness of the casemates. In the case of both the Ho-Ri I and II, the casemates would've just been 75 mm thick so the Prototype's being 120 - 150 mm and the Production's being 200 - 225 mm is weird. Gaijin was told that information and by the time their researchers corrected them, it seems like the modeling had already been completed and with few Japanese tanks in that BR (on introduction) they just added it anyway. Iirc this also predated the statement they made about not adding in any more mockup or planned vehicles, which is how the J6K1 got pass because it was added just before that. Now the Ho-Ri Prototype does have some model differences, but it matches everything that was planned for it. The Ho-Ri Production is just a outright fake and the only reason it hasn't been removed is because Gaijin hasn't found anything that could replace it yet. The only possible candidates atm is the 105 mm GSR (TD based off of the B78 IFV) if more information is found on the gun or the Type 99 HSP. Edit: Also since this is commonly brought up; before anyone gets confused, the Ho-Ri I and the slanted mockup aren't the same. The Ho-Ri I refers specifically to the flat-front design with the fighting compartment in the rear. While the Ho-Ri mockup does situate the fighting compartment in the rear, that isn't the distinction that makes the I the I. It's the combination of both, and the Ho-Ri mockup, from what researchers can tell, predated the I and II designs, as it was just a demonstration of what the tank destroyer could look like before they became more realistic (Japan couldn't produce the large slanted UFP) with the Ho-Ri I design and then made a full blueprint for the Ho-Ri II design which is most likely the one that was being produced by the end of the war.

[@emm4rmstrong]

In the future I wouldn't mind you covering the M4-85 as seen in World of Tanks. It's implemented with a T-34 mod 1942 turret with the addition of a T-34-85 cupola... which actually makes the turret a mod 1943 but they call it the mod 1942 ingame... Now the M4-85 was an actually proposed design from the same guy who proposed the dual-gunned IS-2, but the proposal was to use the T34-85's turret on the 75mm Shermans they had. Soon after he had this idea though, the Russian began to recieve 76mm Shermans and the idea was dropped. www.reddit.com/r/CursedTanks/comments/ruo21p/m4_3485/ I ripped the models of the M4A2 and T-34-85 from WoT and mated the Sherman body and T-34-85 turret in blender to see what it would look like. I double checked the turret ring diameters and the -85's turret had a smaller ring then the Sherman so I image some form of modification could make the two mate. Note: the M4A2 Sherman I ripped incidentally had torsion bar suspension... so the model I made is erred in that regard. I wasn't paying attention and wound up using the cancelled M4A2E4 hull instead of a production models.

[@WelcomeToDERPLAND]

tfw you remove a tank for being "fake" and add another "fake" tank into the game to replace it.

[@alexanderpopov473]

Well for one you have proofs that it never completed, for other you have paper that says it was completed, but without photo) Who knows, maybe they remove ostwind 2 in future too)

[@Slay1337pl]

Except as a premium.

[@justarandomtechpriest1578]

A tank thats even more fake

[@justarandomtechpriest1578]

@@alexanderpopov473 nope The removed was a mockup The added Never got that far

[@florkiler6242]

Gaijn: That original porblem was solved no?

[@RedVRCC]

KT 105mm uses special German alien technology to allow gun breech to noclip thru rangefinder))))

[@RusskiBlusski]

sv_cheats 1 noclip ON )))))))) Profit.

[@bomboclatlawg]

@@RusskiBlusski Player disconnected Ban reason: Cheating

[@RusskiBlusski]

@@bomboclatlawg The true reason the KT 10.5cm was hidden.

[@hihio5]

A proper 105 mm breach wouldn't even fit in a King tiger turret

[@stonedtowel]

The history channel has a special on the aliens that granted them such boons

[@92HazelMocha]

*some kid in 1943 drawing a picture of a tank with crayons* *WT and WoT 70 years later* : This new vehicle is based on historical documentation.

[@Thestuffnope]

There is literally a tank in WoT made from the proposal from a Russian soldier, called the LTP; Light Tank Proposal. The soldier didn't give it a name. But despite it being drawn up from a common soldier, the drawings and design of the tank was quite good.

[@bruvreallymate4365]

@@Thestuffnope they do label it as a proposal without prototypes, so at least its better than some of their... "real" tanks

[@jonathangreenlees4772]

😂😂

[@jayoog9148]

@@jonathangreenlees4772 sekrit dokuments

[@J8DENTHECANADIAN]

@@Thestuffnope In Soviet Russia you don’t give soldier tank, soldier give you a tank

[@ImAFatCheezIt]

Timestamps: 0:57 - Panther II 2:07 - Tiger II (105) 3:50 - Ostwind II 5:16 - E-100 6:16 - Tiger II (Sla.16) 7:19 - Ho-Ri 8:00 - Sidam 25 Mistral 8:30 - Doom Turtle Hope this helps

[@aussiedogfighter285]

@ConeOfArc pin this

[@TheGuyfromValhalla]

Doing God's work homie

[@mirkojorgovic]

Panther2 had initially turret like Panther 1 with 75mmL70 gun. Panther 1F and later1 G got Schmalturm 1, 75mm L70 again. Also Schmalturm 2 for 88mmL71 created by Daimler Benz for PantherF. It in theory wasn't impossible to mounted on Panther2 chassis. Panther2 can found production factory, just one instead of Jagdtiger H, because roadwheels and suspension were at the same . Panther2 was 18 tons lighter and clearly more reliable than Jagdtiger H. E100 was redesigned for only 128mmL55 gun. Not 150mmL37. Maus planned with tube 150mm , and Tiger-Maus. Tiger-Maus cancelled and E100 approved with low priority , and 128mmL55 main weapon + 75mmL24 seccond weapon( or 75mmL3 Maus1 seccond weapon ). Tiger2 105mmL68 was usually replaced by E75 105mmL68( 105mmL52 ) but E75 wasn't completed before war ended. In theory bigger tank than King Tiger, E75 Tiger3 can hold turret with 105mm guns L52 and L68.

[@aussiedogfighter285]

@jeff pentagon yeah but watching the video would explain why it's there mate

[@friendly_thunder3648]

tutel

[@TheQueer23]

I love it when people point out the inaccuracies of WT, as it help the players be less elitist. I still see WT as a more "realistic" game, and that's why I play it, but I don't consider it a perfectly accurate game.

[@barghest9810]

Same, I like the more realistic aspects of WT… but I’d be embarrassing myself if I tried to say the game is a full on accurate simulator… it’s really not… Wish they’d stop adding copy and paste nation tech trees though and show some more love for the existing ones… I’d love some more additions to the game like the Alvis Saladin or more from the CVR(T) line of vehicles for the Brits… plenty of other things they could add too, both WWII and postwar… but I mean I haven’t even been back playing it for long after finishing a long break from the game and it would appear they’d much rather milk the battle pass now…

[@zarlev9083]

I play it if i can have fun.. thats why i stopped playing all 3 WT, WOT, and WoWs )))

[@barghest9810]

@@zarlev9083 I can understand that… I only play WT because they’re ain’t really anything quite like it and I like my tanks… it’s less fun these days but it’s more I’m desperate now 😂

[@chiefturion7134]

@@barghest9810 the game becomes fun when you don't take it seriously and just play at the tiers/br you have fun playing. Once you play it to grind it becomes a chore, tedious, and not fun

[@ottaviobasques]

WoT and WT, both have realistic things, both have unrealistic things, want an example? An HEATFS bouncing on a Winbelwind turret.

[@J_for_Jirachy]

It's also worth to mentioned about Shimakaze too tho. Yes, the ship is not fake and very real but what I'm talking about is when she was first announced with 2nd turret replacing with 25mm guns. Although she was fixed after people complain, I still confused how gaijin messed that up.

[@lordwintertown8284]

It's funny you mention this and how everyone lost the plot due to it in game having the aft superfiring turret missing. Yet there are many vessels that are a hodgepodge of refits & or are missing armaments or are completely fake vessels ntm never finished too, One example is the Ocean Defence Ship Shounan which is missing a cannon on the aft turret yet crickets... But that's how it's where everyone only goes loony when it's something more known an not obscure. There are several lists of hodgepodge vessels or are missing weapons or fakes iirc an there's a Cruiser & a Destroyer that were never finished only being 40-60% built.

[@cristsan4171]

Because it never exist

[@flack2998]

well it is called “fake tank friday” so i don’t think he’ll talk about ships and planes.

[@SilverStarHeggisist]

money

[@unre9979]

The only fake Shimakaze i know is the cross dress trap Shimakaze

[@SirAroace]

WT and woT need to label things as "production, prototype, paper, or theoretical" based on how historical they are.

[@norvinosorio22]

@jeff pentagon that'll be the hybrid section I presume...

[@torenico]

WoT kinda does that already with the vehicle's description. Warships as well.

[@Mister_Rat_]

No they don't need to do anything. people need to stop pretending to be experts on things they are not.

[@sassysaddles9981]

why? its not a tank simulator, its just a arcade game

[@ixxxxxxx]

war thunder stopped caring about being historically accurate years ago. it happened when the tiger IIs started being forced to fight ATGM missiles and heat FS and cold war shit etc etc

[@JP12345]

I see cone has returned to War Thunder lol You never leave War Thunder you just take long breaks, the snail has consumed your soul

[@ConeOfArc]

Returned for the bare minimum amount of time to get the footage I needed. Wasn't drawn back in by it though tbh

[@tao6188]

@@ConeOfArc for now

[@JP12345]

@@ConeOfArc well I certainly wasn't expecting you to reply But now that you're here: Great video bro, keep it up! :)

[@browning2471]

@@ConeOfArc this comment aged poorly

[@catarokujo5fuckmehelp]

Good thing wargaming has shielded me from the snail

[@alexanderpopov473]

T95/T28 situation is easy. They need different designation in tree and technical malfunctions was never modelled in wt. Imagine kv2 that cannot shoot on slopes

[@copter2000]

Bold of you to assume any tank can climb a slope in this game.

[@alexander1485]

@@copter2000 The hellcat can, its top speed was 55 mph

[@bestpeoplz3840]

@@MrGamer-rs4ov or allows it to have special modifications for our tanks to add diversity or that be too hard for them

[@justarandomtechpriest1578]

@@copter2000 some japnese mbt the hellcat and us wheelie tank

[@SilvaDreams]

The T95 and T28 were the same tank, it just went through different name changes and it did function.. But it was never "made" to run with the outer two treads off that was just for transport on trains since it was so wide. It just never made it out of testing since the war ended and we didn't need it for assaulting heavily fortified positions (It was never intended for use against tanks)

[@theaerotrooper]

I really wish there were more access to the fringe fantastical vehicles. It's annoying that I might not get a few of them just due to the fact that they're not researchable or sold for GE. They're all quite unique and have fun gimmicks that at least move away from the same tedious game play.

[@takablepigon9686]

There is already vehicles that diverge from the "Same tedious gameplay" in the game while still being realistic. I do not want to see "Fringe fantastical vehicles" in War Thunder, if you want that go play WOT. I played world of tanks for years before I switched to War Thunder, i switched because it wasn't realistic enough, i say the majority of players stay for the realism aswell, disposing of realism to create wild tanks like WOT will kill the playerbase, and Gaijin knows it. I certainly would stop playing is they go that route.

[@davidmartin4812]

Yeah. Personally i really want to try the matilda hedgehog but i cant be bothered buying it

[@TheBaralinChannel]

@@takablepigon9686 I think this would hold up if War Thunder was realistic in the first place. Post Scriptum is a lot more realistic. Then Steel Beasts is a lot more realistic than both. War Thunder gives you the impression it's realistic, nothing else.

[@nyarlathotep4889]

I agree, more fantastical or paper vehicles would be interesting. I want to use the O-I or Mansyu KI-89

[@takablepigon9686]

@@TheBaralinChannel war thunder is more realistic than world of tanks without being boring or extremely tedious in its game mechanics like in an true to life simulator. It is the perfect balance. And yes, I know what you are about to say "War thunder is tedious" the grind is tedious, but the game mechanics are clean and enjoyable even if a little unrealistic. The balance that war thunder has would be destroyed either by making the game more realistic at cost of playability, or making it more arcady at the cost of realism. In both cases I would stop playing.

[@jk844100]

The basic breakdown of the T28/95 is this: It started as “T28 super heavy tank” but somewhere along the line someone said “we can’t call it a ‘tank’ because it doesn’t have a turret” (I’m not going to get into the debate of turret/no turret = tank/not tank) So the name was changed to “T95 GMC” and design/production continued; but then someone decided “we can’t call it GMC because it doesn’t fit with our doctrine of GMCs” So they changed it back to “T28 super heavy tank” and that’s it’s official designation to this day.

[@Otakumanu]

It couldn't be a GMC because it was too heavy, the US designations were simply too strict.

[@Obelion_]

would be really cool if they put labels in the statcard for different levels of how confident gaijin is in the vehicle being accurate/historical. for example: 1: stats are certified from real vehicles > stats are taken from technical plan > stats are guesstimates or propaganda 2: vehice saw combat > vehicle went into production > prototype only > plans or mockups only 3: armament is exactly what the vehicle used > armament is what the nation reasonably had access to > fictional armament due to ingame reasons

[@shadowraven3253]

That...would solve a good amount of problems.

[@gorrillaeggs4101]

No one cares typed that up for no reason all ppl wanna do it play the game

[@Kalashnikov413]

@@gorrillaeggs4101 Many historian nerds like us do care about these accuracies

[@colinwalker4824]

There’s now 3 separate times where the warthunder community leaked classified design specs on modern tanks to prove gaijin wrong.

[@ikat_tracer]

​@@Kalashnikov413 nope

[@KermitTheGamer21]

Gaijin: Coelian was only a mockup, so it must be removed. Also Gaijin: Here's a completely fake twin Ostwind I sketched up right now to replace the Coelian, which we removed because it was never produced!

[@motleyzadot6867]

Lol screw gaijin

[@Mark3nd]

Wargaming: Someone's stealing some ideas from my high tech ideas Gaijin (Daebom): *Using old school camera* Eheheeehhehheheh Wargaming-chan

[@e_da_g2161]

war thunder isn't the only game with the "fake" panther II though world of tanks does have a more realistic version, the regular panther can be mounted with the schmalturm turret there also exists a premium tank labelled "Panther 8.8", which is essentially war thunder's panther II

[@damienamory5857]

World of tanks carp game

[@M50A1]

@@damienamory5857 they have fish yes

[@RADkate]

@@damienamory5857 im more of a trout gamer myself

[@chrisc1140]

I'm more forgiving of WoT having the fake or """"""experimental""""" vehicles, since they're much less realistic and arcade-y. Whereas WT tries to treat themselves as much more serious and historical. Heck for *years* they made fun of the ahistoric tanks in WoT

[@Azukaae]

@@damienamory5857 Virgin World of Tanks carp game Vs Chad Yes, WoT is also a WW2 game but i prefer to play WT without disrespecting WoT

[@UpupaFiorenteSFM]

Personally if at the Japanese have granted these two vehicles made of wood, I presume on a small scale, I wonder why Gaijin insists on not accepting the P43 series and the Italian Panther in the Italy tech tree. Rightly all or none.

[@legozeke246]

There’s a lot more documentation to say that Ho-Ri Prototypes were produced however unlike the versions in game which mirror the Ferdinand in design they were only the first drafts and drawings. The likely real vehicle would look much closer to a Jagdtiger in setup although unlike the ones in game it would have almost no significant armor like the Chi-Ri II

[@adyatma1]

@@legozeke246 So.. Basically WoT blitz got to put all the design in? We have the Ho-Ri type 1 (the jagdtiger look alike) Ho-Ri type 2 (the one in the video) And the Ho-Ri type 3 (chi ri hull)

[@legozeke246]

Yes and No, WoT blitz basically screws up the number. Their Ho-Ri Type 3 is the 1 only how it has a cannon I don’t think was ever considered. Their Ho-Ri type 1 is the 2 Their Ho-Ri Type 2 is the 3 Basically Japan realized the vehicle had next to no armor so they planned on making the Ho-Ri III actually have sloped armor. I know it sounds kinda confusing the way I initially put the statement. But as far as what is said to have been made only the Ho-Ri Type 2 and Type 5 Ka-to were the only tanks to ever carry the long Japanese 105mm

[@reinbeers5322]

Nope sorry, you're getting more Shermans.

[@UpupaFiorenteSFM]

@@reinbeers5322 True, and it would be time they added the M4A3E8 (76) W to the Italian tech tree. It would be yet another Sherman, but at least it would have something more than the almost identicals IC and VC, that is, more armor and engine power.

[@nicolatesla9429]

What bugged me most of how the Ostwind II was depicted in the game was the way the second 37mm gun was plopped next to the other. The 37mm Flak43 gun was fitted to a large bearing into the mount, do that the loading trays were being fed through the bearing. Gaijin just plopped the second gun on the far side of the first, basically doubling the load on the bearing in a asymetrical way. I can't imagine that would hold for long. Also, with the feeding of the second gun being mirrored, there is no space for the empty clips to go, and I highly suspect the empty casings would get jammed between the guns, causing malfunctions, aswell.

[@panzerlite8108]

I just want the Panther 2 and Tiger 10.5 in WT. I'm a collector and it hurts to know I missed them just briefly

[@theaerotrooper]

I feel this same way about BF-109Z.

[@LordOfChaos.x]

Same here Tiger 10.5 or Panther 2 were not even broken

[@kevingryspinski3754]

I like the Panther 2, I have the Maus,10,5 Tiger, and the coelian unlocked. Just need to research.

[@awacsrazgriz967]

@@LordOfChaos.x The panther 2 is broken as hell. That thing outclasses anything in its Tier, everytime i get one in my lobby its usually top of the scoreboard with 8+ kills.

[@LordOfChaos.x]

@@awacsrazgriz967 its ussually top because only old players have them mostly So the skill difference with the rest of the team is big

[@4T3hM4kr0n]

The Panther II when it was in-game was a dream tank. It had an improved chassis and the gun of the tiger II. So it was highly mobile, dished out damage and the front couldn't be overmatched unless someone else had the long 88. Then gaijin moved it from 6.7 to 7.0 then procceeded to remove it from the game entirely.

[@slothenthusiast5422]

funniest thing of the Ostwind 2 being fake is that they replaced the Coellian with it cuz the Coellian "wasn't real enough" like fucking bruh

[@TheDagraner4576]

Balance )))

[@destroyerarmor2846]

I wish I had the coelian😭😭😭

[@casematecardinal]

And the worst part is that they will give Germany this completely fictional tank but still haven't given America the skink

[@memojackson1000]

U know no one can be greater than ussr

[@reinbeers5322]

And now the Coelian is meta for 6.3 Squadron Battles. Find me another 6.3 or lower AA that is effective and closed top to survive strafing from planes. There's none.

[@legozeke246]

I’m sure someone already mentioned it but the M6A2E1 when it was added it had a large UFP added which brought the frontal armor to 200mm. Although this plate existed on a plan it was for an old modification of the M6 with the 76mm essentially mixing two different projects together. Gaijin stated it was to make the vehicle like as if it had entered service. In my opinion it was to make the vehicle less likely to be useless in many people’s eyes. Since it still leaves two 100mm weakspots on either side I don’t tend to fight with the hull facing forward since the M6A2 has the blessed full reverse speed and a massive engine and bouncy engine deck. I’d prefer it if the plate was gone myself cause then it might afford a lower br

[@smolwavingsnail9028]

The gun is what puts it that br. And the turret is almost impenetrable from the front. Hulled down M6A2E1 is op even for its current BR. You can't put a cannon that powerful any lower.

[@legozeke246]

@@smolwavingsnail9028 I mean other than HE it’s got almost the same pen as the ASU-85. OP is seriously stretching it. Underplayed is more accurate. A of tanks can actually easily pen the turret if they just aimed for the big flat bit above the mantlet. And yeah the way to get hull down anywhere is just reverse the hull and face the engine deck at them. It’ll absorb almost every shell due to basically 250mm of engine. Only APDS & Soviet 122mm can pen through. Also gives 100% protection against 155mm HE shots to everything except top of turret shots

[@smolwavingsnail9028]

@@legozeke246 an ASU 85 is a TD that can be penned by most rank 2 vehicles. you wanna talk about stretches that comparison takes the cake. the M6A2E1 can sit behind a rock with it's cannon that one shots practically every time it pens with nothing but it's it's extremely strong and trolly turret sticking out. that small flat area you mentioned is extremely hard to hit and because of volumetric bounces most of the time. good positioning negates the front plate anyway. this vehicle would be monstrously over powered at any lower off a br even without the front plate and implying otherwise when you go on to say how driving it backwards make you practically invulnerable is dumb. you literally just proved my point. removing the front plat doesn't make it any less of a power house to anyone that knows how to play it. so yes it is overpowered and yes it would most certainly be at a lower br. next time you try prove someone wrong it might help if you don't inadvertently prove them right in the process

[@legozeke246]

@@smolwavingsnail9028 well it’s good but it also comes into what you qualify as OP. It’s gun does fulfill two three I believe needed for a perfect gun. Pen, Post-Pen and reload. Reload being the item lacking. And yes the turret can be bouncy but that’s not in un heard of for that BR. You consider the vehicle vastly OP for 6.7. I think it’s good to great for 6.7 but not OP or requiring of a higher br. When you get down to it you essentially have T29 with a worse turret, worse reload, no side armor, a frontal plate that will only stop idiots with over tiered guns who don’t know where to aim and requires either playing hull down to take full advantage or playing in reverse which is considered unorthodox. Am I saying all this to say the M6A2 is bad or that I dislike it? No not all. I’m saying if the vehicle was any higher in it would get outclassed by it’s 7.0 counterparts. In my opinion it’s 6.7s are equal to it The T26E1-1 gives you a better top speed reload, side armor and similar gun The T26E5 is gives you a great reload and amazing armor (mostly) The M26E1 is a very quick M26 with a fantastic reload to pen ratio almost on par with the Pak43 Then there’s the T30, T34 and T29. All of which I’d say are better vehicles. I’m careful to not call vehicles OP when in fact a lot of vehicles are good and can be great when used to their advantages. If Gaijin regarded every vehicle as being “OP” when played to their advantage then we’d get a situation with T32s only 2-3 brs up and the one thing the vehicle does best is highly inconsistent and not worth bringing over more consistent vehicles of the same BR

[@smolwavingsnail9028]

@@legozeke246 you proved that it would be op if it was moved down. I agree it's ok where it is atm. Even though before my account got locked i did think it was fairly over powered. And im not even the greatest player. And yeh the reload was a bit horrendous. And the T26E5 is basically to a tiger 2 what a jumbo is to to a tiger one. the super pershing sucks imo and is over tiered now especially comapred to the T26E5 the extra plates do nothing because it's still not modelled correctly, gaijin doesn't understand how much velocity a shell loses when it hits something. So a tiger 2 can still pen it through both armour plates and the upper glacis which is total bullshit.

[@_gungrave_6802]

The E100 I think was War Thunder having to compromise by using a turret that actually existed to finish a historical tank that was unfinished. If anything the E100 in both games has a fair degree of historical accuracy its just that they differ in how their historical accuracy is represented.

[@ConeOfArc]

The weight of the Maus turret would have made it unusable for the E-100 so it's not historical at all to use it. They should have given it the more accurate turret instead since the addition to the game is already fantasy.

[@firesb7791]

Plus having the E-100 with the more accurate turret would make it less of a maus clone that it is in game

[@swisstraeng]

@@ConeOfArc Or would it. Was the original E-100 turret lighter, even with its 150mm gun? I am not that sure. The only way to make it lighter is less armor, and smaller, which would mean smaller guns. So, in my opinion, even if gaijin were to add its original turret... It would not make much of a difference. I would even rather have the kitbashed E-100 we have ingame, at least made with existing components.

[@arturjogi2667]

@@swisstraeng the E-100 compared to the maus had reduced armor thickness on all sides of the hull, presumably this would also mean armor would be reduced on the turret.

[@ConeOfArc]

@@swisstraeng the original turret was too heavy when the E-100 (Tiger-Maus at the time) was being proposed. The design was changed significantly from a more Maus-like vehicle to what we know today and with it the turret needed a redesign. Like I say in the video no turret was ever selected in the end and the hull was designed separately as with most tank projects

[@rifqifm6434]

You forget about M6A2E1 Even Gaijin stated they made up add on armor from the concept drawing to buff it.

[@ConeOfArc]

The armor was planned but never fitted if I remember right. So although that tank is semi fake ingame it's not far from the original plan for the vehicle

[@rifqifm6434]

@@ConeOfArc isnt it the same case as Tiger 105? Altough Tiger 105 is more possible since the M6A2E1 doesnt tell the add on armor beside concept art?

[@ConeOfArc]

@@rifqifm6434 no, the Tiger 105 was never even considered past the proposal which itself wasn't actually requested.

[@Mark3nd]

Took it straight from Wargaming, Gaijin saw WoT and decided War Thunder a YEAR later

[@GoldRaven-oe4by]

Honorable mention: The pz4 add on armor puts the track "armor" over the optics on the turret so in reality the gunner wouldn't be able to see anything

[@rgflol1938]

I would love to have polish tanks like 7tp or tks 20 (being the same meme as l3cc) in WT. Also great video showing that the game dont entirely realistic... Or something.

[@TwoStageTrigger]

I want them to add some of the on paper only/wooden model us tanks M22 with a roof mounted .50 T25 with stabilizer ( because one version did have it and they shouldn't have removed it) And some flamethrowers could be fun like the zippo. They could be used to remove bushes from an area, burn through tanks extinguishers, instakill open tops and trucks. They could even add a burning effect to buildings so you can set a city on fire and fill the skies with smoke making it harder for cas and snipers to do anything.

[@casematecardinal]

As if. America never gets to have anything halfway useful. All of our tanks that aren't completely outmatched are either moved up in br until they are useless or are given such a high repair cost or in the case of the super Pershing both. Oh and be moved down a tier because America can't have a useful grinding tank like the m24 because fuck us right.

[@SueDoeNimh]

People would nonstop complain about getting shot in the flamethrower tank and immediately exploding.

[@Blarghsauro]

Rip fps on city maps

[@Zorro9129]

@@SueDoeNimh In a wirbelwind you blow up instantly if you get shot in the ammo, so that's not a problem.

[@Kalashnikov413]

@@Zorro9129 the problem is that the Wirbelwind was more useful than flame tanks

[@CobraDBlade]

Until recently, the American T25 in WT was on that fence of reality and fantasy as it basically took the two main prototypes of that program and smooshed their features together in one tank. Spookston actually did a video similar to this one where he talked about it if you are interested.

[@DisinformationAgent]

The thing with Japanese and Italian trees is that if we didn't get those in the trees they would be empty.

[@warpey5632]

I'm fine with tanks that only existed on paper if they actually existed on paper and are added to fill gaps in tech trees.

[@innermanchurian2802]

I have been wanting to see a channel about fake tanks for so long. Finally someone can explain those wacky design from both games!.

[@Commander_35]

I love this series!

[@warspite7452]

Where is the commander?

[@inanisfrfr6]

@@warspite7452 prolly fuckin other ships

[@ijnhieibb5140]

Boat gang boat gang

[@warspite7452]

@@inanisfrfr6 shiet

[@warspite7452]

@@ijnhieibb5140 don't mind the fact my profile pic is warriors of chaos and not warspite

[@Ravenheartless322]

The Idea of fake tanks for games like this is ok as long as you take ideas from real tanks at the time and try extrapolating on them. Case in point WoT Polish mediums are mostly paper or designs from a tank design school (ie college level designs) in post wwII poland whom had pre war designs. But WG took some the concepts and added in little bit Soviet design philosophy and extrapolated on these fake designs make a full tech tree.

[@warpey5632]

Designs that only existed on paper are ok if they actually existed on paper.

[@russianyoutube]

@@warpey5632 yes. _Looks at wot blitz and its dracula, smasher and whatever_

[@Aes880]

"WT player dont dont like to mention inaacuracy in thier game" Consider the recent incident i would say it a complete opposite

[@cloudysoup9056]

true

[@thehumanoddity]

What's the recent incident?

[@31oannamphong66]

@@thehumanoddity tanker leaked secret document i think

[@AceFalken]

Early WT player and german main (panthers have my heart). Germany before the cold War tanks didn't have much past 6.7 and not a lot of juicy options for premium tanks. SLA, panther 2, and Tiger 2 105, flakpanzer 341, all made up for this gap between them, America, and Russsia. While I like the realistic take on WT. It's a game. I'm fine with bending realism for balancing (especially on a game as grindy). They already do it so adding paper tanks I'm not against. Heck we got things from the 60s fighting tiger 2s.

[@luccavanopdorp9755]

We got things fromt the seventies fighting tiger Is. I recently found out the concept 3 was introduced in 1976 or so

[@geisto5327]

AMX-30 1972 comes to mind....

[@SteveIsHavingMC]

why am i not surprised that the german main is complaining about "muh ww2 tanks fighting cold war tanks"

[@SteveIsHavingMC]

@@TheTankCrew the germans have a lot of overpowered vehicles, that are low in BR because they're driven by german mains with a collective IQ of 38. Half of you are brazilian wehraboos who still dont know where to shoot the jumbo after playing the tiger I for 200 games.

[@AceFalken]

@@SteveIsHavingMC not really trying to be one of those guys but being uptiered and being dead weight isn't much fun. The long 88 is mediocre before being uptiered and the 105 isn't much better. Rather not spend 15 minutes trying to avoid being seen to fish for 1-3 sideshots in a heavy tank that has slow acceleration and mobility. It's not the worst till you play long range maps uptiered. You can't even run before someone gets their free SL.

[@Simon_Nonymous]

Good of you to make this video. I am old enough to remember when WoT put a historical mode in the game and weirdly, not enough people wanted to play it. Make of that what you will.

[@robinkhn2547]

because the historical mode was unbalanced, that's why nobody wanted to play it. Plus, only a small selection of tanks and maps made this game mode quite boring quite quickly.

[@Simon_Nonymous]

@@robinkhn2547 yes, I think you're right there... the real world and gaming are two separate things nowadays!

[@Ninjapancake36]

Great video Cone! Going above and beyond back into WT just to give us a great video. Braver than I am, just thinking about that game makes me upset.

[@tydevries9027]

i was waiting for the tiger 10.5 cm, glad you talked about it! i have more info on it. the patch that included the removal of the tiger 10.5 from the tech tree also came with and explanation of why it was there in the first place. with the resources they had. they needed to make a tiger 2 that could compete against russia's top tier, the is-4. gaijin quote: "Veterans of War Thunder Ground Forces will remember that the Tiger II (10.5 cm Kw.K) was the crown jewel of the German tree during the early stages of development. Added as a counterpart to the IS-4 at the time, this tank is based on a 1944 Krupp proposal to mount the 105mm KwK L/68 cannon on the existing Tiger II design that was rejected and never actually built. Ground forces and the German tree in particular has expanded exponentially since this tank was a necessary requirement for the German lineup and it no longer has a requirement to be within the main tree as a researchable vehicle."

[@RedXlV]

I'm still wondering why Gaijin didn't add any of the 9cm armed Leopard prototypes as a replacement for the fake Panther II. Along with adding the *real* Panther II at a lower BR.

[@kadebass6187]

One of the interesting things on WOTs side of fiction is the the E-75 was supposed to use the 10,5 cm I believe in lieu of the Tiger II and trying to mount a 10,5 cm on it. However the E-75 allows for the mounting of the 12,8 cm which is incorrect in the context of making the E-75 real or at the very least realistic to some degree

[@ConeOfArc]

The E-50 and E-75 never got past the hull designs with no turrets being designed or selected. The ones you see on models or ingame are usually based on the theoretical turret drawings made by historians.

[@KermitTheGamer21]

I believe the E-75's turret in WoT is actually just the larger turret that was proposed for the Tiger II to fit the 105mm. The E-50's is a fake modified Schmalturm.

[@kadebass6187]

@@ConeOfArc yeah I’m saying along the lines of proposed ideas because the E series was also meant to improve upon the previous tanks (of course) as well as be cost effective but of course making a cost effective and better vehicle when you’re at the end of a war and losing isn’t gunna work all that well

[@kadebass6187]

@@KermitTheGamer21 yes I know of the E-50 turret being fake not bad for being fake tho

[@jamesbednar8625]

Built a 1:35 scale plastic model of the E-50 & E-75 by Trumpeter. They look neat and all, especially with the longer 88mm & 105mm guns but really cannot imagine these vehicles in actual combat.

[@petulantpeterturbo]

I'm very surprised hearing some people both mind fake tanks in games and that people have the audacity to get angry when you call their favorite game innacurate. I've always considered games like WT and WoT as games first, so I've always thought there was innacurate stuff added to streamline gameplay and progression.

[@bjboss1119]

While its nice to have a reminder that WT isnt a simulator we have to consider that a lot of these legacy vehicles are gaijin trying to fill out the then top tier of 6.7 line ups for germany and as such they were scrounging around a fair bit. Still coellian back in tech tree when

[@connorfield4119]

Hey cone I actually read a book in Sierra Vista AZ that talked in depth about the development and proposed deployment of the SLA.16 diesel engine. It was put into a tiger hull (can't say exactly which model) however it suffered issues of overheating and the project ended up having to be abandoned

[@austinwhite3132]

It wasent a problem with overheating it was a problem that the king tigers needed to be modded to accept the SLA.16 Diesel Engine it was Air cooled not water cooled as well as a modular engine able to bring heavy vehicles like the jagdtiger and Kingtiger up to better speeds

[@AnInkPot]

Some years ago, the war thunder twitter said that the ingame panther 2 was not a paper tank because all of its components had been made. Yeah, they went that far to NOT admit that they had fake tanks in game

[@alexanderpopov473]

In planes i can only remember r2y2's as fakes

[@RFi731]

Ho229 too, actually.. not entirely fake, but combination of several prototypes J6K is also borderline fake as it was just a mockup irl, with entirely fake armament setup.

[@gandsproductions5105]

@@RFi731 if you have the horten than the bv-238 is a similar situation since it had no guns fitted IRL

[@steakinbacon8593]

At least the Horton actually flew unlike the none existent r2y2

[@theaerotrooper]

@@RFi731 Actually the Horton 229 V3 has one built example which currently resides in the Smithsonian. If it were finished, it would have had even more features not shown in game.

[@dullen2810]

for the E-100: the maus-turm is 55 tons on its own

[@person0-016]

Perhaps there could be an episode on fake tanks from total tank simulator? Not exactly a realistic game, but could be interesting.

[@panzerlite8108]

the lego like game? Why...?

[@stevenmcboi3252]

@@panzerlite8108 why not

[@humanhuman5024]

What the game that breaks peoples computers When they fix that I might go back

[@person0-016]

@@humanhuman5024 wut?

[@humanhuman5024]

@@person0-016 that game is known for breaking gaming PCs just randomly happened to few people and happened to me For me I was just playing and then my computer crashed I tried to turn it back on and nothing would happen Next day it turned on but my graphics card is broken and the computer is super slow This was not even a bad pc my pc ran battlefield 5 on high at 240fps and it ran total tank simulator perfectly as well before the crash When I looked back at the game I found a steam guide where people were saying exactly the same thing that happens with my pc where it just crashed and broke the next day

[@sacredham9782]

I found this video fairly entertaining, but let's be honest. We play Warthunder because it's a badass game not for historical accuracy.

[@ulrickts]

You missed the unrealistic Challenger 2. I have classified documents to prove that it's all... wait, what was that sound? _"SAS OPEN UP!"_

[@bruvreallymate4365]

wt community be like:

[@T_PLAYER]

can you make a video about the fake tas tank variants? it is interesting to see that a random hungarian tank that never was completed has like 4 fake variants, one turreted and three tank destroyers. this all is thanks to one guy called pál korbuly. these are the fake hungarians: 1. tas tank with a large angular turret and maybe an 88mm gun. i believe it is referred to as 44m tas (k) or just tas with korbuly turret 2. tas tank destroyer with a flat casemate and a jagdpanther-like cut out area where the gun sits. this one has a horisontally placed cylindrical gun mantlet. this gun mantlet probably could have allowed the gun to move side-to-side, but it definetely could allow some gun depression 3. tas tank destroyer with a flat casemate with a sphere-like gun cover which didnt allow the gun to move side-to-side or to depress. this one is most likely a misinterpretation of the side profile of the tas tank destroyer korbuly originally made up 4. tas tank destroyer with a larger casemate and a spherical gun mantlet that is somewhere between the one the semovente 105 and the su-122-54 had i hope these fakes will eventually get into one of the fake tank friday episodes

[@kaijuslayer3334]

As a Japanese main, honestly I feel like the Ho-Ri Production should be replaced while the prototype can stay as a premium. The JSDF already have a successor to the prior vehicle being the Type 75 SPH that could replace the Ho-Ri, the Type 99 SPH. Plus it’s weird that a random Imperial era vehicle comes in the middle of the base tech tree in a tier with only other JSDF vehicles. Just feels like a bit of a clash of time periods.

[@theholyromanemperor6275]

man, its so hard to dream of Gaijin going to the path of "we are now allowing paper tanks to be in game" because we all know they'll just break the game more

[@IsotAH]

I mean, some nations do need paper stuff like italy and japan

[@AlanLin1995]

Said like this game is not broken

[@humanhuman5024]

I wish they had like events just 1 time every year like the maus event so that players can get the tiger 105, panther 2, and flak panther

[@realwiggles]

​@@AlanLin1995I mean, he said it would break the game "more", which implies the game is already broken to some degree. "He's illiterate" "He'll adapt" "He'll adapt to reading?" lmao

[@tws1man582]

As a long time war thunder player I really appreciate this video, I always wanted to see how real some tanks are in-game and never found one from KZbinrs who cover tanks (Encyclopedia of tanks does something similar where they cover fake WoT tanks). Frankly I was jealous World of Tanks was getting all the attention!

[@Mark3nd]

You mean Wargaming. Yes, World of Tanks is considered an Arcade p2w game. Wargaming made bets on that one game topping out it's two other games. And they do it pretty good. Gaijin mashed up only planes and tanks. When it's actually official, maybe they will implement all three categories in one big game. It might be hype for a while long, but it won't last that long. Wargaming knows it can't usually keep the hype going with one event or a tank. But they can keep you in the game for a VERY long time

[@Mark3nd]

Just an additional side note, you can easily mod the skin or HUD in WoT, WoWS, and WoWP

[@agrohamburger7205]

I love how you point out the inaccuracies in WT it makes it where I can yell at gaijin for valid reasons

[@theholyromanemperor6275]

i mean, he no longer "works" for Gaijin so he can now say whatever he wants to without getting called out by the company

[@ceoofdazn7615]

🤨

[@agrohamburger7205]

@@ceoofdazn7615 hello, imma yell at you for a valid reason. Okay. PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD MAKE IT WHERE I CAN PUNCH SOMEONE IN THE FACE FOR STEALING MY KILL. Thank you that’s the only valid reason I have of yelling at you

[@bubsy3861]

E100 in potato game originally use mouse turret as well. That was change in few weeks before release of tree. It was few videos and trailer featuring that variant.

[@cbev1249]

that maus misspelling hurts me on a personal level

[@bestpeoplz3840]

To be honest I like those fake tank that have been taken away from the tech tree just because it's fake doesn't mean other players shouldn't be able to see them or use them the game is already highly unrealistic so with certain shooting mechanics and other things

[@theaerotrooper]

I'm on your side here. I quite enjoy the more crazy prototypical AFV stuff and find it annoying when Gaijin picks and chooses rather than keep all guesstimate tanks. I especially found it humorous when, maybe due to the language barrier, they added the South African 'Concept 3' to the game with that name, a clear placeholder for something never built.

[@KingTFD]

. . . . . . . Take them, you need some

[@TheTryingDutchman]

,,,,,,,, You might need some of these to so here you go.

[@bestpeoplz3840]

I typed it quick don't try to give me a grammar lesson

[@bestpeoplz3840]

You understand exactly what I'm saying

[@chadtheafricanbullfrog]

I think a cool fake tank you could take a look at would be the Chimeria tank destroyer in Wargame, a Canadian TD that seems to be based of the idea of the "Jagdchieftan" or the Chieftan Casemate Test Rig (CTR)

[@artimpixel2185]

This is funny ya know? Panther II was 50% fake. The E-100 is also half fake and yet... It's still in the game... U know why? MONEYYYYYYY

[@tonedeaftachankagaming457]

Something that seemed fake I briefly looked into was why the chinese T34-85s have a higher hp than soviet ones. All I could find was information of "rumors" that these tanks received an unspecified engine upgrade. They were just lend lease from russia, so the idea that the chinese put in new engines and then didnt really document it would be surprising. Anyways, great video as always!

[@MeowMeowMeowMeowMeowMeowMeowww]

I always hated that they removed those vehicles. It never made sense to me. Especially when there are other fictional vehicles still available and one of the replacements being even more fictional. They should have left them, alone for the reason that they add more usefull/playable/enjoyable content to the game.

[@skelejp9982]

I play Forgotten Hope Secret Weapons , we also play with prototype's from WW2. For example we also have Panther Ausf. G GT 101, a Panther with Gasturbine Engine. From FHSW wiki : Flakpanzer V "Coelian" Mounting twin 3.7cm flak guns in an enclosed turret, the Fl of the Flakpanzer V "Coelian" was a variant of the Panther tank and was designed to deal with the increasing danger to German forces from ever-dominant Allied airpower. The design didn’t reach production as the Panther hull was too valuable as a main battle tank. With Allied airpower all but supreme in the later years of the war, German requirements for better equipped anti-aircraft vehicles became ever more urgent. Rheinmetall-Borsig designed the Coelian - marrying a Panther ausf G hull with a fully enclosed turret mounting twin 3.7mm flak cannons. This would give the crews a larger degree of protection when taking on strafing fighters or marauding bombers. The Coelian would also be able to fire at ground targets. Three other Flakpanzer V designs were designed. One of them was a version with four 20mm MG 151/20 guns, but it kept having to conform to revised designs based on changing government requirements (such as demands for more modern guns with longer barrels). A second one was the version with two 8.8 cm Flak 41 guns. The Last one is the "Super Coelian". Mostly the same Coelian design, but with a bigger closed turret and two more powerfull 5.5 cm Flakzwilling Gerät 58, a twin version from the 5.5 cm/77 (2.17") Gerät 58 . Please do not make a mistake with the Flakpanzer Panther Flakzwilling mit 5.5 cm Gerät 58 which was also a Panther design with the same guns, but a turret with open roof. However, the design didn’t leave the drawing board due to the need to utilize all Panther hulls in their normal role - as arguably the best tank of the war. Ingame we have the Flakpanzer V "Super Coelian", but have the name tag as the Coelian. This is a mistake by the FHSW Dev team. It is a powerful gun wich can fire 5 rounds in 2 seconds (150 rpm) per gun! It can easy destroy light and medium tanks. The hull of the vehicle is from the Panther D. Greetings !

[@ThatOneMan830]

I think the Ostwind 2 turret being different from the one that’s described is solely for game balance. If it had a much larger gap like the documents say, then the turret crew would easily be machine-gunned to death from the front, which is already simple to do if you aim carefully. Open-tops already have it hard with artillery, aircraft, and being machine-gunned through turret gaps.

[@herrgeneralerwinrommel3728]

I was watching your M-class submarine video just now, and I have another odd submarine class that you might find interesting. It is called the Surcouf class sub. The French sub had a turret with an armament of two 8 inch cannons

[@Clemdauphin]

it was a cruiser sub!

[@notazombie...notatall8577]

I'm not gonna lie... i would like they to add more "paper tanks" just because it's more fun, more content and more stuff to do. :D

[@majinkevinci]

I mean, I think that as long as they label not perfectly accurate tanks as "what if tanks" it wouldn't be bad, I think that they internally don't mind doing that but they fear that if they come up clean by saying "we made this tank based on experimental trials and how they would have been deployed if they fixed the prototypes issues" would make them seem less "realistic" PR-wise

[@Noodlewerfer]

I feel like it's worth mentioning that the Panther II is most likely Gaijin's attempt to create an E-50 with "built" components mashed together, as back when it was added Germany lacked high tier tanks. It doesn't explain everything, but the E-50 if it were a completed design would help explain why it has an upgraded engine and would be a more reasonable explanation for why it has an 88mm Schmalturm. We might never know what the E-50 would've been like if it were finished and produced, but I think it is reasonable to say it most likely would've received the 88mm Schmalturm if that were completed and most of the other upgrades the Panther II has in game. The Panther II as it's represented in War Thunder is still a fake tank, but it helps to think of it more like a "finished" E-50 in disguise.

[@nova2293]

I love how all three R2Y2 jets in the Japanese tree are just some Gaijin dev’s weaboo fan fiction

[@derritter3873]

As a Japan main and someone who has spaded the Ho-Ri Production, the Ho-ri does fill in a hole in the tree, and while I think it might be fine if it was removed, it would make Japan’s already small lineups get smaller. If they ever do remove the Ho-Ri’s, I just hope something is put in its place as to compensate for it.

[@kaijuslayer3334]

The Japanese got a replacement for the Type 75 SPH, which is the tank destroyer researched above the Ho-Ri. The Type 99. That could be a good replacement.

[@patrickb1303]

Contrary to popular belief the Ostwind did exist and was produced in large numbers. However it was kept on the alien motherships that were working with the Nazis to bring about the second Thanksgiving. Credit - History Channel.

[@fabrizio4682]

Grind thunder moment 😳

[@theeverydaythinker6310]

I dont mind fake tanks being pointed out, i also like fake capabilities of overhyped tanks being pointed out

[@catchedtugboat7350]

Could u check the accuracy of the spähanzer ru251. It should be a german light tank

[@chost-059]

It does exist

[@catchedtugboat7350]

@@chost-059 I always thought it was a paper tank that wasn't built

[@awacsrazgriz967]

It exists. Theres an entire wikipedia article with its data.

[@catchedtugboat7350]

@@awacsrazgriz967 aight.

[@kyaratheevil]

when you mention the e100 i personally think gaijin should have made the maus they had take it place so people can still get the maus instead of a odd tank

[@lordofthelavalamp8255]

The E 100 was never a Tech Tree Vehicle, so not available for research and was only given out as a Reward for the Top X Players in Specific tournaments. The only way to get it know is to be one lucky fcker with a loot box, grabbing that 0.6% Chance or you buy it for roundabout 1800 Bucks from another player, thats happen to sell it. The Maus was available, got removed because of balance reasons and made short comebacks OveR events to give people the chance to research it.

[@disketa25]

What about american T30? There is little to no evidence that it was a real modification outside of a few mentions and two likely-photoshopped photos. It's highly doubtful for me that it is possible at all to squeeze 155mm cannon in a turret initially designed for 105mm.

[@thenumbah1birdman]

The T30 is/was still extant, though not in the best shape. There's also footage of it firing on youtube here. The T30 definitely existed.

[@ConeOfArc]

The T30 is very real. It was intended as a vehicle for dealing with bunkers iirc.

[@thenumbah1birdman]

@@ConeOfArc Exactly

[@disketa25]

@@ConeOfArc Then how were they able to fit a 155-mm gun into a turret that was originally intended for 105-mm at all? Either this is magic, or the designers of the original prototype with a 105-mm one should have been shot for sabotage in the form of a deliberately irrational tank layout (remembering the amount of alterations that are usually required to install a gun one and a half times larger in caliber, normally this is, at least, strengthening the hull and total redesign of the turret, like it was with KV-2, T-44-122, T-34-100, Brummbar or Tiger 2-105, which was mentioned in this video for that exact problem). The only significant exception I know is IS, where it was possible to replace the 85-mm gun with a 122-mm relatively quickly, but this is rather the merit of an extremely successful and relatively compact 122-mm cannon of the Soviet model than the tank itself.

[@Kalashnikov413]

@@disketa25 There are 2 surviving prototypes displayed, one was in Detroit Arsenal in Warren, MI. Another is at Fort Jackson, South Carolina. This should be enough to convinced you that it was indeed a real tank

[@jakepeat690]

technically speaking half of the modern vehicles now in WT are mostly fantasy as well, as gaijin has made up most of their armour values and such

[@riptidegaming8876]

cone of arc: The world of tanks turret is more accurate wt players: impossible

[@bruvreallymate4365]

oh how the turntables

[@Mark3nd]

Wargaming: Cuz I can make gods kill themselves! It is a game after all 😎 Gaijin (Daebom): WARGAMING-CHAN!!! >///< Gaijin became a human form snail girl. Thats how fallen Gaijin really went lol

[@rainbowappleslice]

The E100 point doesn’t feel totally fair. If all they have for info is the mock-up drawings and those have a Maus style turret as a placeholder because they never picked a turret for it then surely that’s as valid as the WoT turret because there’s no way to truly tell what they would’ve done with the project had it been pursued further.

[@artimpixel2185]

Also the Panther II would receive the 88mm only if it would be chosen as a replacement for all Panther variants. The Panther F was expected to have 88mm proposed by Krupp. So if the Panther II would be accepted, it would receive the upgrade as well. That is only logical BUT. It's only the best "what if" scenario

[@jamesbednar8625]

Good and interesting video!! As a plastic model builder, especially of German WWII armor, this explains the sudden explosion of model kits of some crazy designs!!! I have a very extensive library of German armor, to include the "paper panzers" had the war continued into 1946 and beyond, but the kits of armor vehicles hitting the market now even has my library "confused". Lots of these designs that you depicted in the video are quite interesting but WTF over??? Never played a single second of World of Tanks or War Thunder - and not sure that I want to - but....Also, can understand/respect the "what if..." designs/theory of these vehicles, but a lot of them just look way too impractical. Now IF they were in a SCI-FI world, can see that working.

[@megablademe4930]

Basically half the WW2 german tech tree.

[@_556ms]

there is yet another that got added recently, the zerstörer 45. no image records and based on previous flakpanzer 4s it would probably be a modified wirbelwind turret, swapping its 2cm flakvierling with a 3cm flakvierling, not möbelwagen skirts and without a gunshield. crazy to me how they removed the flakpanzer 341 which had an actual mockup but added not one, but 2 fake or wrongfully depicted vehicles

[@enricob15]

Hi, regarding the tiger 2 sla engine, I searched a lot about it because I put it on my thesis back in the days and yeah information are low and in the end it was like "yeah bigger engine, x layout of cylinders, slightly less HP but diesel goes brrrt" (it was quite unique because most or even all German vehicles use gasoline instead) and the actual test reported that 5 tiger 2s were equipped with that engine and the results were OK. End of the story.

[@ConeOfArc]

Would you happen to have the source material you used for that? I haven't seen any mention of it being put into any Tiger IIs outside the Jagtiger.

[@Drnken229]

With the Ostwind 2, I think Gaijin went with that Design because the Wirbelwind and Ostwind look pretty much the same. And I found another turret type by just googling "Ostwind 2 tank" which shows many 1:72 model tanks of it, where there has been a flat piece put right in the front of the turret, replacing the angels.

[@maxdamage4919]

The night vision in the panther is call Vampir Vision, The STG 44 use that too the Zielgerät 1229

[@MrKanooe]

Excellent video. As for the amount of german tanks coming from blueprints or obscure prototype it has some sort of explanaition . It goes as far as the very early day of the ground forces update, German tanks were underwhelming compared to the russian so they added several tanks ( mainly the Tiger 2 10.5cm and Panther2 with the 88) to face the Russian IS-3 and T-44. Now that this issue isn't revelant anymore they are hidding those tanks as they have now many more accurate tanks for Germany in the game. Great video, Can't wait to see the video about the historical accuracy of war thunder as it takes a lot of liberties from reality. 👍

[@TheArklyte]

There are two "real" possibilities of Ostwind II: 1)either it was made with existing vertical arrangement Flak 43 gun as they needed to finish prototype for report, but no mention of side arrangement being produced and delivered specifically for this vehicle exists; 2)or they've used naval M42/44 mounts and had to enlarge opening as you mention. Why does Gaijin do it differently? Effectiveness against ground vehicles! The BR of SPAAG in this game relies heavily on how "universal" it is. That's why Otomagic is king and why near useless against planes due to lack of modification and VT fuzes ZSU-57-2 has high BR. Option №1 gives gun vertical spread and exposes loader to MG fire due to height, option №2 leaves it with exposed to MGs front, but allows it to put two shells side by side. The iteration ingame relies solely on need to be effective against ground vehicles.

[@emporer15]

And yet, they still won't give up the Bob Semple.

[@rowbot5555]

12.0

[@brealistic3542]

The Panther had some very worthwhile editions coming to it before the was ended, gun stabilization and a auto loader coming to mind. Neither have been put on WOTs Panthers.

[@dessertfoxo4096]

Source for the Auto-loading Panther? IRL Auto loaders for anything larger then a 50mm are nightmares. Would like to see the FV 4202 with the Auto-loading 183mm lol, but auto panther would be fun.

[@brealistic3542]

Dude, the Russians have loads of large caliber autoloaders ! Lol😆 Where did you get that idea from?😛 My source? You don't realize how rude this question is and that I had to dig this source up do you because you don't feel like doing some research on your own on things like this obviously. Panther Variants 1942/1945 Hillary Doyle/Tom Jentz/Mike Badrocke Page 10 A Mehrladeeinrichtung (automatic loader)7.5cm KW.K 42/2(L70) to be completed in April 1945 Stabilized Gunsights April 1945 I guess WOTs never told you this..😁

[@dessertfoxo4096]

@@brealistic3542 Dude no need to be so rude. The Russians did have large calibre autoloaders but they were on cold war tanks like the T-62 and T-72. For world war 2 it was a nightmare to get 3" to 5" autoloaders working on ships never mind tanks. Also the earliest reference for a Mehrladeeinchtung equipped tank is the Spc 1 and Ru 251 prototypes from the 60s. Secondly your source says nothing about the panthers gun at all. Panther Variants 1942-45 page 10 is about Panther Aust F and the design conception of the Schmalturm turret in late 1944. There is no reference in this book about a autoloading 7.5cm gun for the Panther bro

[@brealistic3542]

@@dessertfoxo4096 You're changing the goal posts now and also projecting. What you said is patently false since on page 10 very specifically they cite both projects for the Panther being a priority and under development with a date that shows they were about to be finished. "IRL Auto loaders for anything larger then a 50mm are nightmares. " Your words.. Not specific to ww2 whatsoever and wrong since the panther was about to have one as a top priority and a stabilized rangefinder! The person who obviously is the rude one is YOU and also HAS NOT READ THIS BOOK! I gave you the exact source and page and you deny it all. Saying it is I that haven't read this book. I OWN IT ! You obviously don't or can't read... When someone says.."give me the source" or "Source please?" it is invariably a person who knows little to nothing on the subject and is suffering a massive dose of the Dunning/Krugger effect. They expect you do not have a source to give them on hand. Well, I do. No matter what evidence you give them they will deny it and excuse YOU of not reading the material. I don't know why I even bothered because you're obviously a Butthurt child that refuses to be corrected. Buddy, I have a BA in History with a very high grade in MA material in it also. I know Wence I am talking about here. You obviously do not. If you can show me material that contradicts the info I just gave you then do it. Not just your personal conjectures that mean nothing as you have been doing all along. Now go back to getting your info from WOTs because it's so accurate. :)

[@dessertfoxo4096]

@@brealistic3542 Yeah, no it doesnt, Do your self a Favor and READ THE FUCKING BOOK

[@Juel92]

The biggest problem with fake/experimental/prototype vehicles in War Thunder is that they often have some kind of ability that only worked on paper. Like a supercharged engine BUT it would always catch on fire during testing. Like a giant gun BUT it was too big for the turret to operate. Like an fast autoloader BUT in reality it would break down after cycling just a few rounds. When these vehicles are put in game they totally fuck up the flow and logic.

[@Americanbadashh]

It's a video game

[@Juel92]

@@Americanbadashh Yeah I know and a lot of them don't fit the VIDEO GAME BALANCING.

[@austriagamed9834]

you could talk about the SK105 Super Kürassier (Prototyp) that would be nice :)

[@StarstreakHVM]

Thank you for doing your research and pronouncing the German names correctly - it's something which many KZbinrs can't manage.

[@kxme6243]

One tank you forgot was the Ho-ark’s as the Ho-Ri prototype was solely based on a wooden mock-up and the Ho-Ri Production being a complete fabrication.

[@RusskiBlusski]

Personally I am not a real fan of paper tanks or fictional tanks. But I do see merit in adding some of the more realistic designs, such as actually adding the real Panther II. Essentially the tanks we have in WT but with either the F or G turret. Or even adding (as you suggested) the Jagdtiger with the SLA.16 engine. Since that was more in lines with what was actually tested. There are other vehicles from other nations I would have liked to see as well. US and Soviets had some pretty cool projects going at the end of the war that would be cool to see. Many of which are already in such as the T30 heavy tank family or the post-war IS tanks. Either way I really like this series, very entertaining and gives some food for thought. :)

[@TheNobleBrit]

German mains: *Cracks fingers* *Places fingers on keyboard* "RRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"

[@bruvreallymate4365]

i imagine it more like "SKREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" and then probably "its your local sherrif, were just here to make sure youre ok"

[@TorvalAwakened4662]

It misses the B1 Ter (The one on war thunder have the same problem as the E-100) French wanted to create a brand new turret for it, but german invasion and other stuffs made them use the D2 turret instead. But it wasn't a long term project. At some point, the "true" turret would have been mounted on him

[@janslavik5284]

Hans: "Why are we making all these weird tank prototypes instead of building more StuGs?" Franz: "So that our great-grandchildren will have something to spend their money on Hans, you Dummkopf!"

[@jonathanbaron-crangle5093]

Just wanna say that had Germany wanted to up-gun the Tiger II, it'd have likely been up-gunned to the Jagd-Tiger's 128mm, which was even more fearsome that the 88/L71 It also had split ammunition, ie, propellant case & projectile, vs a complete shell unit (IIRC, the JagdTiger required TWO loaders, however)

[@kubanskiloewe]

the Schmalturm was build to carry the improved 75mmL70 KwK42 or the 88/L56 from Tiger 1 but not the 88/L71 from Tiger 2 as ingame.

[@potatoes953]

You should talk about your thoughts on the designs of Valkyria Chronicles tanks because they’re funny.

[@nicho3051]

The SIDAM mistral isn't exactly ''fake''. The thing you see in the photo is a real picture, and yes although its only seen with one, that doesn't mean it couldn't mount 2 or that it never did mount 2. Many sources state it could mount 2 so its not exactly on the same level of other vehicles on the list. As far as im aware and from the research i did myself, it only mounted 1 to save time as this vehicle likely had a rushed development cycle. According to an OTO Melara employee i had spoken to it was mainly created to upgrade the ones in service at the time, and also participated in some sort of SPAA competition in the USA. But TLDR is this : real vehicle, could mount 2 mistral launchers therefore its fine by Gaijin and Warthunder standards.

[@jackdiedtoday_]

nicho immideatly jumping in when someone mentions italy, i see? keep up the good suggestions my guy :)

[@nicho3051]

@@jackdiedtoday_ Thanks man haha! Gotta keep people informed ;)

[@ConeOfArc]

I was mainly pointing out that the real thing was never built outside of mockup ones and that the photos we do have show it lacking the second launcher.

[@nicho3051]

@@ConeOfArc As far as im aware there aren't any mock-ups, but yeah fair enough. Also Cone hmu if you wanna make a video on an Italian vehicle. :D

[@attomicdoggo7044]

Anyone curious on the t34 sheilded? I've seen pictures. But haven't found any documentation

[@Kefp_mimi]

The only thing that was a wall was paying to build it. Because these aren't too challenging beyond skill and physics. Tiger 1 is also made of paper, followed by money, materials, factories and labor. Most tanks in WT or WOTs are the same case. Just don't have the money, materials, factories and labor to build it.

[@modelermark172]

I'm a model builder, not a gamer. So maybe I can provide a slightly different perspective, here . . . . These proposed / hypothetical designs are popular among Armor Modelers; especially the German "Paper Panzers." This trend began around the early 1990's with 1/35th scale kits of the E-100 and Maus tanks being issued. These were quickly followed-up by other proposed designs, such as the Flakpanzer V Coelian and Flakpanzer IV Kugelblitz. I think these tanks became popular because they were 'different,' and modelers were looking for a 'break' from yet another Panzer IV or Stug III project. But until fairly recently, most model kit manufacturers would have preferred to have 10% of the Panzer IV market than 100% of the Maus market. This changed when it became apparent that kits of these "Paper Panzers" or "one-off" field modifications would sell, and we've seen a fantastic array of such kits at local hobby shops over the past two decades. (There is even a kit available of a proposed Soviet ball-shaped "Sharotank" available!) But we modelers only have to build and display our kits. Moreover, we're quick to point out that these are models of tanks that were NOT actually used in wartime, and in contests, they're judged on workmanship; not whether or not they were 'real.' More to the point, we model builders don't have to determine how they could be used in a game.' Now if only a kit manufacturer would come out with a 1/35th (or even 1/72nd) scale kit of the infamous KV-VI Behemoth . . . .