CONFIRMED! X-Men Krakoa Era Ruined By Clowns

[@Rorysammy]

It would have been better if Kitty wasn’t allowed on the island at all because she could shift through the ground and find where the pod people were holding the actual X-Men

[@lotsalube]

I basically chose to ignored the Krakoa era.

[@karaoconnoraliasraidra]

A reminder that Namor once (sometime in the late ‘90s in an Avengers book) scornfully spoke about how the X-Men would take anybody, implying they had low standards and would take trash heroes, and then became a member of the X-Men. 🚮

[@knocklesnar]

And yet his change of heart was very well explained during Fraction's run,

[@glarepherson]

The fact Hickman was dying to give us a series all of us would love and got denied for the trash titles they released is crazy beyond all logic...how do editors like this get hired ??? How is no one above them seeing what is and was going on??? I can't even wrap my head around how this guy was allowed to do all this damage

[@TevyaSmolka]

Basically this editor Jordan white destroyed a gold mind with Krakoa and ruined everything with the x-men in the comics sadly.

[@karaoconnoraliasraidra]

It’s sad that their incompetence made so many fans think, “Okay, this has to be leading to something because this doesn’t make any sense otherwise!” only to learn that no, the writing actually was that nonsensical and incompetent.

[@TevyaSmolka]

@@karaoconnoraliasraidra which is sad because god damn it Hickman had a amazing plan right there with Krakoa

[@ensabahnur7657]

@@TevyaSmolka 💯📠

[@TevyaSmolka]

@@ensabahnur7657 😎

[@theboy1625]

A shame, I only found renewed interest in X-men when I heard about Krakoa. A nation of mutants sounds story compelling. Oh well

[@Toki-Ralte]

Kitty Pryde being able to use the gateways suddenly after it's bring tampered with.. now that you mentioned it and I think about it, it really doesn't make sense at all.. lol

[@maxmazzotti6651]

I liked her a lot more in Classic X-Men, Excalibur, and Xtreme X-Men

[@EvandroACruz]

She turning in a cold blooded killer is very worse. I never give a shit about why she can't use the gates before Hellfire Gala Massacre.

[@greendaleforever]

Go from the early days of Lee and Kirby to the end of Hickman's time on the title and that's all you'll ever need.

[@alexc8873]

kirby lee era to Waid, Lobdell, Nicezia era mid 90's is all you really need.

[@Bushybrow000]

Pretty much

[@karaoconnoraliasraidra]

I’ve commented before that people used to rag on the ‘90s comics and now they’re saying, “We didn’t know how good we had it!”

[@PrivateCitizen84]

That is helpful. I just intially picked some random X-men stuff to see what sticks. More X-men is on my to do list. Only read some X-men Ultimates and some Wolverine Essentials 1# to 23# so far. Got some Excalibur, Defenders of, uncanny Second Genesis/Dark Phoenix, more wolverine essentials, astonishing stuff to get into.

[@jonathansoko1085]

Uh, NO. Stop way before hickmans xmen.

[@eric_linden]

The soft bigotry of low expectations…

[@AL-ws5yi]

Knowing what happened is cold comfort especially since they haven’t learned anything at all.

[@brialt1]

Jordan White has to be a top 5 biggest failure as a comics editor in Marvel's history. Maybe even #1.

[@uxm4life94]

I cannot think of a more complete management failure in any medium ever. More continuity errors every month than in Marvels entire history. No editorial standards whatsoever.

[@brialt1]

@uxm4life94 what's crazy to me are the diamonds out there. The actually good stories/comics from Marvel over the last 5 years. Shows how impressive those creative were with this level of management incompetence.

[@Vendetta419]

I loved when Wes and Dok get together and reviewed the crap out of things that are bad because they are able to explain how we all feel when writers and artists aren't listening. These two have the been the best chemistry together like they're the Road Warriors aka Legion of Doom.

[@raistlinmajere3194]

What really pisses me off in the krakoan era is just how many teases and concepts they started that seems cool but as jdw revealed in this interview, they just casually thrown them out in the window. Just because they went to a different (and worse) direction than originally intended. It’s like a serious case of ADHD. What an embarrassment of nature.

[@karaoconnoraliasraidra]

It reminds me of the Kitchen Nightmares episode in which the owner’s response to any criticism was to cancel that item from being served again that day. For instance, if someone didn’t like their mozzarella sticks, she’d tell the kitchen to 86 the cheese sticks so no one else would get cheese sticks that day.

[@Lonestarakita]

Hickman gave them 10 years of stories with proper pacing would have allowed different plot lines to breath and develop into stand alone epics in just a couple issues , then they decided to throw everything together and turn it into slop. Orchis should have been a slow simmer with smaller plot lines filtering through out etc... I always loved how The Xmen would seed a plot line and years later you would go oh damn.. orignal Wolverine identity , Mr Sinister and the Mauraders etc

[@karaoconnoraliasraidra]

“…they wouldn’t consider it canon.” I’m not surprised since apparently they don’t consider anything canon anymore. Anyone who follows Captain America or any of his supporting cast can tell you they’ve stopped giving a rip about canon. Wait a minute…if Marvel doesn’t consider their own stories canon, that means we don’t have to either! We can just ignore every stupid plot line that blatantly goes against established history and characterization! Of course, I had been doing that, but now I can point to Marvel’s own writers and editors as justification for ignoring their stupid stories! Since they don’t care or pay attention, I don’t have to either! This is great news! 🎉 🎊 🎂 🍨 💃 Them acting like we were all supposed to figure out what was happening in the comic reminds me of a couple things. One is that episode of the Jimmy Neutron cartoon in which they went in search of a sea monster. The (male) Captain of the ship told them a story about how the monster ate his entire shipment of sea monkeys, and then inexplicably finished his tale with, “And that’s why they call me ‘Betty’!”* Jimmy and Carl were confused as to how that story explained the nickname, but Sheen insisted, “Come on! It’s obvious!” The other is an episode of Monk in which someone fired five bullets into a wall. When Monk and the Captain (who I don’t think was ever called Betty) caught the guy, he told them it was an M. Wasn’t it obvious it was an M? The irritated Captain, gesturing to Monk, replied, “He’s the best detective I know and he didn’t know it was supposed to be an M!” Maybe we needed Sheen to help us figure out these X-Men stories. *Admittedly he wasn’t the first to throw around the name Betty randomly since Paul Simon did it before him in “You Can Call Me Al”.

[@eric_linden]

No editorial direction.

[@cicolasnage5684]

No, that’s not the issue. The issue was there was too much editorial interference. Too much telling Jonathan Hickman what he could not do.

[@zemox2534]

​@@cicolasnage5684Hickman is better working on his creator own comics. East of West is very good

[@EkoBahamut]

I still maintain that the first Gwenpool series was good (The one with Studio Gurihiru for art) I was disappointed that nothing was done with her, and got mixed with the mess that was the Krakoan X-men :(

[@EkoBahamut]

I even bought the awful team book because Gwen Pool was gonna be there, but it seems that whenever someone not related with the Run of Unbelievable Gwenpool isn't writing her, the stories aren't good.

[@SparrowAaron]

Dok’s metaphor game was even more on-point than usual!

[@rickymcn1]

At this point it's done. Put a fork in it. The amount of damage that's been done to these characters cannot be reversed. The sales are tanking HARD and they still refuse to right the ship. Gone are the glory days when the top selling books were in the hundreds of thousands month in and month out. Now if you sell 30,000 you are the darling of the industry and must be put on a flagship book post haste. Creatives who's book you'd buy just because you seen their name like Frank Miller and Chris Claremont have been put out to pasture only to be thrown the occasional bone so we think they still care. Marvel will endlessly reprint old material because it never stops selling. They know what makes comics great. They just have no desire to clean house because they fear twitter, a place that isn't real and full of people who'll cry foul when, god forbid, a Frank Castle book is reprinted, but show up in their dozens to support books that they've lauded endlessly on twitter for the likes from other penniless virtue signallers. TL;DR Just the same stuff you've already heard ad nauseam. Make Mine Manga/DC=Dead Comics

[@Jaymalkin980]

Gwenpool became a mutant, I miss that. I liked originally Betsy becoming Cpt but I though it would be shared with Brian but it was crap.

[@supermanprime6758]

Guys I thought they said she can’t go through while phased and she always instinctively goes through a portal phased

[@aqdrobert]

The Doctor: Kitty needs to reverse the phase of her neutron flow.

[@warzardtheboredtimelord2865]

I still think they were going to say that Farklin was really Namor's son. I think they still might do that.

[@Aloysius10]

Well Namor did kill one of his other sons for treason.

[@ironbaysqiureg4827]

Haha the gwen pool picture feel like she slept with The guy to get into the gala trying to get another book

[@mbob4337]

Can we get people to okay things first. Before writing crap. Geez.

[@EvandroACruz]

X-Office is a complete mess in this shitty Era. First, Krakoa Era was a mistake that she just improved the sales for a very short time and after HOX/POX the so many books and tie-ins write by less talent writers made the sales decrease. After Inferno the quality of the books were so awful that the entire line sales of past years were abismal. Fall OF X is complete and utter disaster. Nimrod was deafeated in the most boring and predictable way possible in the final issue of Fall Of House Of The X. This era killed the soul of the book and ruined these characters forever. There's no reason to the X-Men exist after Krakoa anymore. The dream is dead.Xavier become a villain and every X-Men is now a killer. No more heroes. Mankind always was right in to hate and fear mutants. They are all dangerous like Magneto in the end of day.

[@bratpack6571]

😔 The truth hurts...

[@EvandroACruz]

@@bratpack6571 Yep,hurt so much.

[@MrHayabusaSan]

Sigh.

[@spinningtornado4543]

At least, it's over for that run. What other issues of utter nonsense are left before everything is officially closed off ?

[@VaughnEsper]

Wow it's insane that a Hickman New Mutants title wasn't a priority when so many trash titles were. It really highlights that Jordan White gave projects to writers based on ticking boxes instead of actual competence. How could he know see how that was going to go?

[@leadingauctions8440]

Why is Disney still funding this?

[@BadNewsYouNeedToKnow]

Editor in comic books? Oh no! They are mostly deadline traffic cops.

[@tlou2isntcanon]

I'm gonna leave the clowning business to all the other clowns in the clowning business.

[@21Million]

Nice job on these insights. They deserve the criticism.

[@KameronFranklin]

So instead of a Hickman Sam and Rob mini-series, or even turning New Mutants into the Sam-and-Rob Show, White thought that putting Vita Ayala on New Mutants would generate more sales. At least Bob Harras, for all the crap he got for pushing out Claremont and betting it all on artists who would promptly leave, could tell the difference between a money-making concept and ideas that were DOA.

[@danielcraig9666]

So what, the basic premise was flawed from the beginning.

[@doommega]

He knows what I said before in an Older Post. history will NOT be Kind to him and the choices he made during his tenure here. these were EPIC BOMBS he made during this time. someone has to take the heat for this and it's that guy with the funny beard, mustache, and overdue hairstyle. How do you BLOW that Fantastic Concept by Mr Hickman - think of it, during the pandemic this was the HOTTEST THING SMOKING - you don't drop ideas like this... when you discuss this in greater detail this is the one this is the guy you Must stuck in the over and COOK him for that GOOF Ball of a era... we Got Nothing from it you can ever use again.

[@uxm4life94]

Along with Avengers BC- Krakoan era has utterly and irreparably destroyed Marvel continuity forever. Absolutely no editorial standards whatsoever. Everything is just unconnected gibberish now. Krakoan era was by clowns who never read X-men and exclusively for new "fans" who never read X-men either. It's now just a nonsensical power fantasy for hypocrites who don't realise they are the intolerant ultra fascists they think they're fighting. RIP real X-men 1963-2018.

[@supermanprime6758]

Kinda jibes with what I said earlier. But unlike Green Arrow written unapologeticly leftist by leftists who is an intolerant philanderer (not to mention the storyline about how MDMA was drug akin to heroin) …..I think Hickman knew what he was doing.

[@knocklesnar]

There's nothing sillier in all of comics fandom than the hyperbolic declaration of characters/properties being "destroyed" forever. There's no shortage of bad stories and creative decisions throughout the history of comics and they're usually accompanied by cries of ruination. Yet it's never happened, and never will. This exact same sentiment was widespread in the wake of AvX, whining about how Marvel destroyed the X-Men forever and Cyclops was an irredeemable waste of a character. Then a few years later Hickman breathes new life into the property and suddenly the X-Men went from an unsalvagable disaster to the hottest thing in comics in popularity, sales and critical acclaim. These characters will endure. All it takes to undo the supposed catastrophic damage and irreversible character assassinations is one great idea, and suddenly all the doomsayers are drowned out by the sounds of cash registers. Not only is this sentiment completely over the top and inaccurate, but it's not even the consensus opinion. This channel and the majority of the commenters here like to wallow in misery, declaring everytbing awful and ruined while falsely equating their opinions with that of the majority but the overall community still has a positive opinion of the Krakoan era, missteps, failures and all.

[@uxm4life94]

@@knocklesnaryou have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. This is not the normal ebb and flow of quality we see in comics. Chuck Austen was a bad run- but Krakoan era has completely dismantled ALL of X-men continuity. It is literally all nonsensical gibberish now. How does a single thought bubble or motivation from Xavier, Moira or Sinister over last 60 years make any sense anymore? How do any of the countless future timelines we've seen exist if Moira death resets reality (including the Days of Future Past reality where Nimrod and Sentinel domination originate from- which only occurred because Mystique and Destiny assassinated Xavier and Moira)? Why have all the countless Marvel issues of Cap and Avengers saving X-men been retconed out of existence? Why are mutantmassacre, Genosha, M-Day, Legacy virus, Apocalypse wars, Messiah War, Necrosha, Magneto War, Bloodties etc all being blamed on regular humans when all got committed by the same mutants welcomed to Krakoan high council? Why are mass child murdering monsters like Sinister, Apocalypse, Bishop, Exodus and Shaw given a free pass in this racist ethnostate? Why was the fact that Shaw and Hellfire Club being the manufacturer of Sentinels completely ignored? Why was Krakoa a ultra fascist segregation state by every definition? How come time travellers, cosmic entities, gods, telepaths, omnipresent/omniscient beings and mystics all completely unaware of Moira and Sinister machinations for decades? Krakoan era was either a disingenuous propaganda retelling of all Marvel history or utter editorial incompetence of an unprecedented level. What universe do you live in where Krakoan era is a financial success? Sales absolutely tanked when Hickman abandoned this failed project. It is widely reported at every retailer convention that previously decades long complete line X-men collectors have all completely dropped the entire X-men line. X-men trades have went from Amazon best sellers to barely registering. Marvel refuse to publish any sales figures out of embarrassment. Why have Marvel dropped White? Why are they desperately trying to reboot franchise? Try asking your local comic shop if in doubt- they will readily tell you how many fans have dropped X-men. The sad reality is Krakoa (like Avengers BC) is completely incompatible with the continuity of 60 years of much better stories. Actual X-men fans have no interest in the ongoing adventures of the irredeemable, soulless segregation fascist clones. Unless these stories are retconed out of existence ongoing Marvel Comics are a dead brand.

[@EvandroACruz]

@@uxm4life94 Yes Krakoa killed the soul of the franchise and make all them unsympathetic murderous jerks.I promised to myself never read a new X-Men book while Krakoa Era isn't erased from the 616 canon.

[@uxm4life94]

@@EvandroACruz same here. I collected the entire Marvel line for over 50 years. Will never buy a ongoing Marvel book again whilst Krakoa era is canon.

[@alejandromacias8004]

My take is that he had such low self-esteem that he just wanted to be liked by everyone in the "x-office" so he approved every stupid idea. As a leader you have to risk not being liked in order to make the difficult --and necessary decisions. Some people are just not cut for leadership, and you can see them fail catastrophically... at least we have amazing back issues. For example, I see with new eyes the Joe Kelly, Steven Seagle and Chuck Austen era.

[@CryogenicGamer]

As a persons I how’s favorite character is Gwenpool. I am very disappointed since that moving Gwenpool into the X-men line did nothing other than forcibly make her Asexual. Good job white. 😩😑😒

[@geminihero]

For me it felt like that analogy about painting yourself into a corner. As you mentioned Hickman had a three-year plan and that was for him carved in stone I’m pretty sure Hickman could’ve maybe stretched it to a fourth year. But from what I heard marvel didn’t want it to be a three year they want it to be longer so like you said a lot of arguments happened and Hickman just threw his hands up and said fine I got my paycheck anyway you guys can all kiss my ass as he walked out the door to go make money. As a result they’re now stuck with a property that they have to artificially push past a three year story mark so to me looking back through all of the stories that they’ve released over the years it feels more like they were just trying to buy time like they were had 3 gallons of water but they had to try to artificially stretch it to three months. And when you do that of course you’re going to have a large amount of inconsistency specially when you are putting the properties in the hands of less talented writers. So when I think of him as an idiot I don’t see it as some high school dropout idiot I just see him as a guy who is just so up in his own ass that he can’t admit he’s wet when he walks through the rain!

[@JP-1990]

There's gotta be some kind of Career Day type of questionnaire that these people can take when they get hired at Marvel so that they can be sorted into the right book/character that is most suitable for them.

[@joeseverson7543]

I know nothing of current xmen won't read them. But everything of Hickmans that I read is hot garbage.

[@JosiahHaynes95]

I'll NEVER forgive Marvel for ruining Hickman's X-Men

[@joeparrigen4982]

I'll never forgive Hickman for ruining X-Men

[@bratpack6571]

Krakoa could never work for the same reason why Eternals and Inhumans don't work. Having your own country is NOT a good story. The Eternals have their own, as do the Inhumans. WHO CARES. But the X-Men try to live among those who hate them: good story there...

[@fighting_nerdy]

Tini Howard got my spot in the industry. Not saying that with any malice or resentment. We both won the Top Cow talent search and that opened a door for her. Too bad it hasn't turned into anything of quality.

[@raiderbear1]

Awesome work guys

[@stevehnatko1050]

I would love to know how many promises did they make to Hickman did JW go back on. You have to believe they knew Hickman wanted to use Franklin, Namor, and do the Sam and Berto book. Logic says they just lied to him upfront. Whatever.

[@nathanh86]

Even if the Cannonball and Sunspot book wasn't good, just having the name Hickman on it would have made it sell better then half of the x-books in that era

[@WTSD850]

too say that dan slott never sold a comic I would say is a bit unfair because his early spider-man and supior spider-man sold incredibly well

[@clonegeek3317]

It sold because of the Spider-Man brand, not because he was writing it

[@WTSD850]

@@clonegeek3317 a lot of people still liked superior Spiderman when it came out

[@MrHayabusaSan]

His She-Hulk book is the only thing I'll ever give him credit for.

[@shinra358]

90s xmen is the only real xmen

[@EvandroACruz]

I agree with you. Comic book X-Men are ruined forever.

[@daniellong7926]

Franklin is kinda back to being a mutant. It turned out he warped his own reality. Every yr on his bday he gets his powers and memories of doing it back.

[@spinningtornado4543]

Krakoa should get a Nobel price for how many stupid concepts it came up with at this point because that explanation alone could give someone an aneurysm.

[@gavsmi6452]

I think Hickman gets too much of a pass sometimes. Unless his plan was that they were clones all along which explained how out of character they were, then he is to blame for starting the whole thing. Maybe he had something more exciting than the X-Men standing around a big tree talking all the time, but he created the whole mess then left it to be cleaned up by even worse writers if you ask me.

[@EvandroACruz]

Every character was write OOC in this Era.Just a retcon showing that all these guys were Krakoa plant clones all the time can fix the things now.

[@joelp4600]

Wow this is the first time I actually AGREE with you guys since your channel was integral in getting me back into comics during the HoX/PoX days, or as I like to call it-- back when you guys were more positive. I get it-- negativity gets views, so I always tune in when I want to hear the negative criticism about anything. Besides calling you "Thinking Cynical" I also refer to you as "The Legion of Cynics" or even "Those guys that used to like comics". Very entertaining I must say. But are you inspiring and giving hope to the hobby? Probably not.

[@WTSD850]

gwenpool belongs on mojoworld

[@MrHayabusaSan]

Mojoworld deserves better.

[@lotsalube]

WTF happeded to the S.W.O.R.D. series(bad sales??)?-i liked it.🤔🤔🤔

[@morgantodd3748]

The "Krakoa Era", and everything underpinning it, was a fundamentally ill-conceived concept. The Timeless Child of X-Men.

[@bezzyboy6]

So if it was very clear, then why didn’t Beast explain it right away and Forge created a fix

[@nelsonhernandez6793]

I had never felt such a detachment from XMen until the Krakoan era.

[@spinningtornado4543]

The X-Men in this era have stayed so far from their roots, they might as well be paid actors working in a ripoff show of the franchise.

[@warrenweaver6664]

I can’t crap on it mainly cause the fact I hate X-men and mutants but Hickman and them did a pretty good job showing me why the X-men aswell as mutants are just evil and just plain dumb.

[@supermanprime6758]

Preach. Mutants arnt the next evolutionary step. They are LITERALLY cancer and earth is the body

[@EvandroACruz]

Yes, all the X-men proved that can be dangerous killers just like Magneto in the end of day. No way the team can wash the blood of your hands after Fall of X. No more heroic X-Men.

[@MrHayabusaSan]

You're like the opposite of those deranged X-Men fans who hate every other team and character in Marvel lol.

[@warrenweaver6664]

@@MrHayabusaSanlol 😂

[@MrHayabusaSan]

Lmao this era was hot garbage. I get so sick of Krakoa fans coping and trying to tell me this has been the best era since Claremont. LOL. I want whatever Krakoan drugs they're smoking. It's a shame because now is the time to get more X-Men fans on board with the success of X-Men '97 but nah, fuck the comics I guess. Quantity over quality as usual.

[@glarepherson]

Alsooo..this fall.of x makes no sence .."we need the phhoniex to kill enigma...let's kill the Phoenix so she can be resurrected"..what? Why not just have her kill enigma..."we need to save all mutants ...let's leave them in the white hot room stranded " ..." we are heroes who save pepole ..let's kill everyone "... nothing makes sence

[@EvandroACruz]

In the last issue of FOHX the X-Men spared Omega Sentinel life and Nightcrawler give a speech about redemption even with every member killing all Orchis mooks without qualms. So hypocrite.

[@spinningtornado4543]

​@@EvandroACruz Nightcrawler is just a sock puppet at this point : He spouts whatever the writers want him to as a way to get the fans to stop thinking about what's actually happening in the story as it completely contradicts what Nightcrawler says or would think, do or act under normal circumstances.

[@EvandroACruz]

@@spinningtornado4543 Duggan write everybody OOC.

[@spinningtornado4543]

​@@EvandroACruz There's no 616 X-Men run right now that has characters acting in character, makes sense in the setting or doesn't feel like it's throwing random Deus Ex Machina at the wall to end things quickly in the most unsatisfying ways possible.

[@EvandroACruz]

@@spinningtornado4543 Marvel just decided pull off the plug of Krakoa Era and finish this arc in most lazy way possible.

[@O_G_HELLBOY]

That's an insult to clowns Wes! At least clowns might have been funny. Maybe? 🤷

[@afcansf5996]

Does any one has a direct link to interview, for the life of me I can find all their podcasts but cant find this particular interview; or did they took it down ? It was about time somebody made that little piggy sweat at least a little.

[@Wes_From_TC]

It's up on Adventures In Poor Taste website in the X-Men Monday tab.

[@georgemoseley1504]

Would love to hear your thoughts on ASM issue 50 + the train wreck (spider-goblin) going forward.

[@StillOnly25c]

I haven’t been an X-Men fan, I liked the cartoon. But I feel your pain there’s nothing worse than ‘ No Idea People “

[@adeivyssuarez2843]

I can't tell whats worse, krakoan x men or ultimate X-men

[@spinningtornado4543]

Simple : Which one insists on being perfectly canon within 616 regardless of how much retconing was done and character assassination it inflicted ?

[@ChrisK056]

Wasn’t X of Swords Hickman? Because that’s where Krakoa started to fall apart. Incomprehensible waste of time. HOX/POX was brilliant, but we’re left to conclude that they didn’t really have a good act 2, much less a conclusion.

[@spinningtornado4543]

The X of Swords project involved two writers, one of whom was Hickman who wrote many issues of it.

[@ChrisK056]

⁠@@spinningtornado4543In my opinion, the whole thing was too big, hard to follow and threw away all the momentum Krakoa story had up until that point.

[@spinningtornado4543]

​@@ChrisK056 I agree.

[@Jay-fw6jo]

As much as I like seeing the underrated mutants be reborn and re-powered, and get some spotlight not to mention seeing the cool outfits from the hellfire gala. It made so many of the heroes villains Professor X gave up on his dream

[@spinningtornado4543]

The cost and losses of this era really outweighed by a gigaton the minimal gains it had.

[@knocklesnar]

​@spinningtornado4543 There were no costs and losses, just stories you didn't like.

[@spinningtornado4543]

​@@knocklesnar Have you ever considered that perhaps stories that aren't liked by people was for a good reason tied to the cost it took for them to happen and losses in both the lore and characters it included ? Making them bad in the scale of the franchise they are a part of ? - Example of losses : Character assassinations, flanderization, rewriting characters from the ground up, contradictory lore, nerfing characters, ... - Example of costs : Contrivances, retcons, handwaving, ... Krakoa did all of those things and let's not talk about the budgetary cost of Krakoa with its fake number one issues and one-shots that overflowed that era.

[@knocklesnar]

@spinningtornado4543 I've considered it, it's just nonsense. I've been reading comics for 40 years and claims of character assassinations and damaged properties has been prevalent since about 10 minutes after dial-up internet became accessible to the public and it's NEVER the case. Comic fans have a tendency to label every story or direction they strongly dislike as "destroying the character". One of the most-watched videos on the channel is a countdown of the most severely destroyed characters, and not a single one of them have actually been destroyed. All it takes is one great idea from the right creator and all the so-called irreparable harm is dismissed and forgotten X-Men are ironically the PERFECT example of this. AvX, especially the Phoenix five, IvX, jobbing to the Inhumans and the movie rights-based editorial directive to de-emphasize and put them on the back burner and the subsequent really bad stories had the entirety of X-fans apoplectic, railing about how Marvel killed and buried the X-Men. Guess what happened next... One great idea from the right creator and all that so-called irreparable harm was dismissed and forgotten.

[@spinningtornado4543]

​@@knocklesnar Key difference here is that Krakoa breaks past stories in a way where rereading them becomes the least enjoyable of things because the lore was beyond broken by it. Krakoa decided to have mutants pre-date Humanity as a whole and humans actually come from mutants. It had entire mutant civilizations existing millions of years ago, before the concept of a civilization was even a thing. That is an example of innumerous others, all as equally nonsensical. You mentioned how this happened during AvX and I say it's nowhere near what the Krakoa era did, in neither damage, length or generated issues (this era alone has published more comics in nearly 5 years than the entire franchise in more than half a century). But let's say it is the same : When something like this is repeated too often and becomes more and more extensive in the lore breaking and retconing it does, it becomes a harmful yet predictable trend. Fans recognize the pattern and chose to jumpship, a majority did so during Krakoa. Will they come back in the relaunch ? Many won't and some are very tempted... Until they find out the Krakoa damage will remain canon (because it will remain canon) and that's when they chose to not look back. Every news outlet that has come out since the relaunch was first teased cemented to many people why not supporting the relaunch is the way to go because contrary to AvX, nothing is going to change in what comes next. The status quo in the relaunch is the same as the one at the start of Fall of X from one year ago (because Krakoa falling is still canon as well as everything the X-Men did during that time). The "new" writers are either recycled ones from Krakoa or ones who have written forgettable fill-in issues at Marvel. The editorial is repeating beat for beat the same damning mistakes the one for Krakoa did five years ago (ex. oversaturation of runs and creating more new mutant characters). The teased plots describe both a contradictory world and characters like how Wolverine will be in two different books with two completely conflicting world views yet supposedly happening at the same time. Krakoa as an era and "chapter" in the X-Men franchise isn't going to be over in July : A 2.0 is just going to be slapped onto it as it was become what X-Men is now unless they completely undo it.

[@felipefarias7435]

Man, FotHoX is trash. That Nimrod final battle, wtf was that? Felt like whoever wrote this laughing at me

[@EvandroACruz]

An they choose show mercy to Karima despite the fact they killed so many Orchis mooks in this arc.

[@felipefarias7435]

@@EvandroACruz that was awful. Can't say I was surprised, but wtf

[@spinningtornado4543]

​@@EvandroACruz I've seen that one panel of Nightcrawler talking about redemption after all of what transpired and this had to be the culmination of his character's mind-boggling hypocrisy in this era.

[@EvandroACruz]

@@spinningtornado4543 This and see Captain America and the Avengers turning a blind eye to the X-Men actions in this war just show how morally bankrupt the Marvel heroes become in the latest years.

[@maxmazzotti6651]

Insert Homelander watching movie meme here:

[@michaelsteger9898]

A wise man.said "everything woke goes to sh!t"

[@farrisward2211]

Would've loved more Cannonball.

[@illithidlore]

I'm not a fan of Slott, but saying he's never sold comics is entirely incorrect.

[@biker944]

I have low expectations with xmen

[@juuso7792]

Imagine working with the biggest name in current comics in one of the biggest francices after a succesful series and then fucking it up so bad. Jordan White should never again be allowed to work in comics, he showed he has no usefull skills for the medium and should be expelled

[@12hokage40]

Kurts comic reviews has a video you should see

[@LigerFan]

I wonder what book(s) Jordan will be editing when DC scoops him up in the near future?

[@incubustimelord5947]

The return of Krakoa, the Living Island was the worst thing to ever happen to the X-Men. In the future, they will look back on this era and see it as the worst era of comics ever.

[@knocklesnar]

Without Krakoa the X-Men would still be an afterthought of bad stories and sales figures. You must not have read the Disassembled and Age of X-Man nonsense that immediately preceeded it. Krakoa was exactly the unique injection of outside the box creativity the property badly needed. You're probably one of those fans who want them back in the mansion

[@incubustimelord5947]

​@@knocklesnar Every X-Men story from the Age of Apocalypse to the present was just not good. But yes, I would rather have them back as a team of super heroes in the X-Men Mansion than the soy woke S.J.W. crap that they have been turned into now. You are probably one of those weirdos who actually likes the way things have been ruined, with Wolverine, Phoenix and Cyclops being in a polyamorous, sexually fluid relationship, and Iceman being a stereotype of a flamboyantly gay man, and Rachel Summers and Betsy Braddock being lesbian lovers just for DEI ESG points. You and Jonathan Hickman, and everyone at Marvel Comics and Disney who are into this bizarre, creepy shit are everything that is wrong with comics and the X-Men fandom.

[@joeparrigen4982]

​@@knocklesnarBut now the characters are forever ruined. Was it really worth it?

[@knocklesnar]

@@joeparrigen4982 No, they aren't. What a silly comment

[@dwaynemuth8775]

Rudderless editorial! Drove off Hickman, dropped the ball with Franklin Richards and proved to me that Dan Sloth is absolutely shitty FF writer in recent years! Jordan White is a doofus! The Legion of Super Doofuses

[@supermanprime6758]

Gawd. Can we have ONE mutant who sees family and personhood before identity? No? Not even Franklin? Then Reed is mindwiped sorta, THEN Franklin isn’t a mutant (what???) So Xavier wants nothing to do with him. Jesus…even some Indian tribes consider black people members even though they have zero genetic link

[@Aloysius10]

Franklin Richards technically becomes a mutant once a year now.

[@spinningtornado4543]

​@@Aloysius10 Everyday, Marvel surprises us with a new idea that is somehow stupider than the one from the day before.

[@AtmosphereIVXX]

The Krokoa era was a easy layup

[@camila_costa12]

X-Men is dead

[@twancoates1084]

We can point all the fingers, but when Disney says jump because this is what we're doing you better jump, or get George Lucas'd.

[@VivalaRedSox]

The whole resurrection shtick fucking sucked. Glad it’s over

[@Fenderbaums_Run]

What’s the truth behind the story that Hickman was ready to move to Phase 2 but the creators were having so much fun they wanted to keep going where they were? True or made up?

[@spinningtornado4543]

Who knows. One thing for sure : He barely build up to anything that transpired in the final run he wrote for the Krakoa era, that being Inferno.

[@Fenderbaums_Run]

@@spinningtornado4543 Like it or not, you have to appreciate how Hickman took that massive Avengers\Secret War run and just hit the bullseye at the end. When I read the 1st Krakoa issue I was already getting excited about where he’d take it. Can you imagine telling him “No” bc some doofus who just started writing had some dumb little story they wanted to tell?

[@spinningtornado4543]

​@@Fenderbaums_Run Marvel's editorial is sadly unprofessional.

[@Lonestarakita]

Gwenpool and other *funny* characters are always trash

[@milestrombley1466]

Without Stan Lee, nobody know what the f*ck they are doing.

[@Firevine]

The FBI needs to take a look at Jordan White's hard drive.

[@jeanpoillet4805]

I have just finished the dawn of x line, I have enjoy so far but I don't have difficulty to believe that eventually be worse to worse. So my question is when or where to stop reading de krakoa storyline before that start to be bad?

[@yanuardilaliwang8013]

I wished ONE DAY we will get a "X-Men Forever" (basically, a What-If Claremont never left the X-Men) for Hickman's X-Men... "Krakoa Forever" would sounds great as the title, one can only wish!

[@kamchikamchi2737]

Wait they did xmen karaoke??? How the heck karaoke have to do a story about mutants and racists that devolved into a tyrannical communists that make the nazi look like school bullies and the mutants are the embodiment of dystopian society of pure evil. ………… oh the drankona or krakoa something something I don’t care about every issue is a prom night crap. Again, I tried to understand the lore and continuity during the few months before superior spiderman, but I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE HELL I READ. And that was purchasing a few spiderman comics out of giving a try and flop hard to my brain. I had hard time understanding how these characters are so different from the tv show I watch as a kid. Heck! The xmen 97 isn’t even a continuity to the original show no matter what people say (I didn’t watch it because I still stand avoiding buying/supporting marvel and disney and just read summary after hearing captain america was in it and was literally confused as the last time he was in some sort of crazy dimension with the red skull, grapple wrestling in a spinning circle). It basically use some of the high points of the comics and only do a quick spotlight for the characters while using the 97 drama vibe the show had (didn’t rock to me honestly). It was a copium drug to lower the fans to false sense of security. Even the former director, boa…….booooo……eeerrrrr…… that fanonly gay guy who was against the witcher direction and left, who promise the show will be truthful, stated that he self insert himself as morph to secret gay relationship with wolfverine…………. I can see that mask, they can’t trick me even without my observation haki. I too base to fall for these kind of tricks when they kept repeating it and changing tactics to find a different strategies. What was I talking about oh korow something. Yeah if the xmen 97 failed to get audiences, we can blame as one of the MANY REASONS, it failed.

[@JordynFranciscoJaramilloJumbo]

After the Japonese sent Vegeta and Itachi Uchiha to destroyed Marvel, they tore Cyclops to pieces and sent the to Jean Grey's house.

[@Whalewraith]

Bit random, but anyone watch the new X-men cartoon ? Cyclops is getting around with his optic blasts. At one point he's in free fall and blasts the ground to land. How would that not break his neck as his head stopped? Swinging his legs into the beam. ZZARK!my legs.

[@mladen8127]

I'll take some outlandish superhero silliness over boring slice of life non-drama any day.

[@christophera5055]

If Hickman wrote the Terms Of Service for my cellphone id read it!!!! He’s such a great creator.

[@ethandang212]

I think the biggest mystery that was never Cleared up was the man with a peacock tattoo And everything relating to that.. I mean unless I missed something somewhere but i'm pretty sure Read everything pertaining to Cocoa and x men.Age

[@Megazero26]

Krakoa Era is the worst thing to ever happen in X-Men/Marvel comics history and thank god Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver and Namor were not part of that era, And X-Men: The Trial Of Magneto is the worst comic i ever read in my life they ruined Scarlet Witch's character by making her a daddy's girl to Magneto who is nothing more than a delusional madman for mutant supremacist who wants nothing more than genocide to the humans, You know Wanda and Pietro should stay far away from the mutant drama and Magneto, Wanda and Pietro are better off with The Avengers then this whole mutant bull crap and Magneto wasn't there real father to begin with, This whole retcon started in Vision and the Scarlet Witch Vol 1 #4 November 9, 1982 which leads to House of M a few years later, And if they haven't retcon Magneto to be the father of Wanda and Pietro back in the early 80s then House of M wouldn't even existed.