Confronting Ulysses (Legion Courier)

[@vault18starplayerandenclav8]

being called a frumentarii is probably the biggest honor that ullyses gives you

[@PadawanSerg]

Maybe, but maybe not. As I remember, Frumentarii - is a scout for a Legion, the herald of Caesar's will. Not many people have much strength, skill and wisdom to become & stay one, and there is honor in that, that's true. But I think, that highest honor that Ulysses gives you in that moment when he sees that your words, actions goes from belief so mindful and thus powerfull, so you can change the fates of certain people or the entire nations. And so he calls you *rival* for Legate or Caesar himself.

[@vault18starplayerandenclav8]

@@PadawanSerg yeah probably

[@Skiritai]

@@PadawanSerg Not only scouts, but spies, diplomats and assassins as well. The Legion has specialized classifications for each of those, but the Frumentarri are truly something apart, they could be as messengers in a way.

[@Tony-The-Motherfucking-Tiger]

@@PadawanSerg Not Scouts, but spies, assasins, messengers..

[@PaddyRoon7]

This guy is determined to kill the NCR, Vegas, AND the Legion, to start a second apocalypse, and the only thing that changes his mind is his belief in Courier Six, and their ability to single handedly build a better world. I've never felt this genuinely connected to an NPC in a game, before. Petty villains obsessed with revenge are a dime a dozen in fiction, but Ulysses is different. You can really feel the impact that the player character has had on his worldview, and it makes complete sense why.

[@That_Darned_Imperialist]

Imma be real, I don't think he is any different from a petty villian.

[@PaddyRoon7]

@@That_Darned_Imperialist Mind elaborating?

[@IiImonix3]

@@PaddyRoon7 Ulysses is my favorite character in the game, but I also believe he's pretty petty. However, I think that play to his strength as a villain. A lot of fans break him down and pull his dialogue apart to hate on him, but they forget that he is the VILLAIN. He's not meant to be agreed with. He's hypocritical, vengeful, and bent on making others suffer because he can't get over his own angst. He frames his actions as having great purpose, and sending a message to the Mojave. A message that he received from the courier years ago, that one man making a simple choice can shape the world around you. But that's all hot air. In the end, he's no better than Elijah (at first), he hates the world and just wants to unleash his pain and grief out onto it. And this all comes to a head with the big theme of New Vegas in the first place: Travelling the waste, finding a missile silo and creating this grand plan to destroy the Mojave, none of that is the hard part, it's letting go. Ulysses can't let go. But unlike Elijah, who was too far gone, Six can reach Ulysses, either with his words, or Ulysses' own holotapes.

[@404_BrainDidNotLoad]

⁠@@IiImonix3 There are a lot of interpretations for what Ulysses’ ideologies and motives are. For example, some people say Ulysses sees a pattern in the Courier. Courier Six built up the Divide into the prosperous oasis it was before they inadvertently burned it down, so now Ulysses sees Six doing the exact same to the Mojave (since the DLC is meant to happen just before the Battle of Hoover Dam). So, he intends to bleed the Mojave and destroy it before the Courier can, except he plans to let enough of the ashes to remain and allow the Mojave to make the choice instead of Six. Ulysses also makes pretty good points against the NCR and Caesar’s Legion (as well as some okay points against House and the Independent Route). I’m sure you’ve heard all the reasons why the NCR and Caesar’s Legion suck for the wider Mojave so I’ll spare you the details but his biggest problem with the 3 big players is that they’re all imitations of empires that have already failed. They aren’t innovating. The NCR mirrors the democracy that lead the world into nuclear destruction. It’s full of internal strife. Their flag is a perfect representation of this. A two headed bear that pulls the body in opposite directions until it drops dead. Caesar’s Legion is a pale imitation of a long dead empire that stretched itself too wide, built solely around one man. It’s a bull that charges forward and only forward, never looking back at what it leaves behind. What’ll happen when there’s no where left to charge? Furthermore, House mirrors the wealthy elite who build their empires off the backs of the unfortunate masses, a group that will always outnumber the fortunate. House is too ambitious for just one man. He dreams of restoring humanity and sending us to space but that’s all they are. Dreams. Without the Courier’s intervention, House is stuck and unable to do anything. He’s barely even trying. He doesn’t have any active presence outside of Vegas, where he just keeps a few dozen security robots while raking in money. No spies to keep up with the world, no strike teams to sway the favor onto his side while breaking down his enemies. Nothing. He bets his all and everything on you, even though the NCR and Legion want him dead. And the Courier? Six is a wastelander who’s never ruled anything before. Even if you’re a 10 INT & CHA Courier, you’re still just one person. Either your empire won’t span enough to do that much good, or you have the same failings as House. And besides, history has already spoken on the fate of civilizations the Courier creates. This is the Mojave as is. Ulysses wants to nuke the Long 15, cutting all trade off from Vegas and demolishing NCR supply lines, forcing them to pull back. Support for presence in the Mojave is already low and a devastating strike like this may force the NCR as a whole to reconsider their approach to other parties or risk catching another nuke. Caesar will have nowhere left to charge and will be forced to either actually start making a civilization out of all his conquered land, or starve to death. House will be crippled since he relies on tourism and trade so much and will be forced into action, even if it isn’t 100% safe to do so anymore since inaction is no longer an opportunity. An independent Vegas will be doomed with trade and tourism, again, forcing the Courier to act. Ulysses probably hopes the Courier will just move on since at Six’s heart, they’re a wanderer. If all these factions fail to create a working civilization that isn’t doomed to fail, then the remnants will try again and again until something works.

[@404_BrainDidNotLoad]

@@IiImonix3(Continuing from my last comment) Like I said earlier, there are many points of view on why Ulysses does what he does. The one I just listed is what I think but there’s also a nihilistic approach (and Ulysses IS pretty nihilistic). Some say he’s just trying to burn everything down and use nuclear fire as a purification. In this way, he’s hypocritical and also blind. Despite being a victim of nuclear destruction-both by being born into a world savaged by nukes, and by surviving what happened to the Divide-Ulysses still plans on nuking the NCR and/or Legion, just because he believes they are truly incapable of change. Also, I was pretty wrong about how Ulysses sees the Courier after I looked at some transcripts between my last comment and now. Ulysses believes the Courier is part of the cycle, a force of history that must make a choice-not simply move on. He doesn’t want the Courier to continue wandering; he wants the Courier to break the cycle. The nukes are his way of forcing the Courier to make that choice instead of wandering.

[@primeprimordialprimate4279]

I’ve played New Vegas in almost every way I’ve imagined yet it seems there’s always more to discover. Dialogue I may not remember, or have ever found.

[@talkaboutwacky]

Ulysses is such a great character. He’s a nut job for sure, in a different upbringing say had he not been born a tribal, he would probably be a high school history teacher

[@breddie_is_rookie]

If Ulysses grew up in the Followers rather than Caesar, we would have seen a much more robust and powerful Followers being able to support outer Vegas

[@harvest44492]

​@breddie_is_rookie I tend to think the Legion is why he is the way he is. His combat prowess, obsession with history and seeking it out. Him realizing the Legion was attempting to imitate Rome was the beginning of the journey that led him to the Divide, and finding his understanding of "America".

[@zeebooboo9663]

This game is still the best fallout I played. When I get a PC I really want to dig my hands into fallout 1 and 2.

[@PapitoQinn]

I hope you don't get turned off by how old they are.

[@zeebooboo9663]

@@PapitoQinn I played Planescape Torment. I played Morrowind. I can play old rpg games I think

[@PapitoQinn]

@@zeebooboo9663 Well in that case, have fun.

[@rambokills2750]

WOOOOW he sounds even more reassonsble and understandable when your aligned with ceaser

[@vladimirrashkovsky6274]

Should’ve been a speech option to ask Ulysses why he cares so much saying his skin was already burnt before the divide

[@Smirving]

i always do this dlc when im level 1 so i never heard most of these line's

[@chungus816]

So true I'm out here clobbering marked men and deathclaws with my bare hands and leather armor

[@Emperors_Child]

​@@chungus816 with "tgm" in on

[@warriorwolf77]

bear bear bull bear bull

[@grimrapper5202]

lmao bugthestard strikes again

[@PerfectAlibi1]

Ulysses is nothing but a sad little hippy man, who blames you for blowing up the place he wanted to call home. It's not the Player Character's fault, if they didn't bring the package, some other Courier would have... He blames you for doing your damned job!

[@vincegalila7211]

I mean the Legion are "just doing their Job" when they commit cultural genocide and enslave an entire sex. Ulysses himself was "just doing his job when he charted the rout to the Dam, and when he made the White Leg's sack New Canaan for Caesar. Ultimately he's more or less guilty of everything the Courier is, he just thinks having an actual ideology makes him justified. effectively judging that civilization is or at least the "civilization of the Old pre war world" should be destroyed as the creation of that civilization requires the destruction of multiple smaller society's like his Tribe and the Divide.

[@PerfectAlibi1]

@@vincegalila7211 Legion isn't just doing their job by committing cultural genocide, that's a stance they've adopted. And look at which kind of cultures they destroy. Tribes, so backwardly stunted, enslavement is a gift upon them! When they take over the NCR, Caesar fully plans on revamping the Legion as well ^^

[@vincegalila7211]

@@PerfectAlibi1 according to the person who Enslaved them. Your taking the words of a person most likely to tell half truths, hyperboles and engage in apologetics for every atrocity under the sun since you know he's trying to convince you to join his Legion. All the Factions promise so much but I doubt any of them can actually accomplish half of what they say they will.

[@Drawica]

@@PerfectAlibi1 Caesar literally dies in 4 out of 5 timelines because of his brain tumor and it's be proven to death (within text of the game no less, in particular from the mouth of a former legate) that the Legion can't support itself without Caesar leading it. At best you'd get 4 or 5 years of subjugated stability before the remnants of the Legion kills itself with infighting. There is no future for the Legion.

[@PerfectAlibi1]

@@Drawica The Legion will just change form after Caesars death. Also the Lanius ending slide does show it persists.