Confusing Cards are KILLING Yu-Gi-Oh

Confusing Cards are KILLING Yu-Gi-Oh. With Konami sending modern yugioh card effects off the rails, we look at one of the lesser discussed issues. How a game with so much text, could be so confusing, opaque, and whether new and casual players can survive. Essentially part 2 of why YGO is hard to learn. (even with the help of Master Duel)
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[@acasualgameryt6978]

Using the "Related cards" feature in the middle of a duel is so underrated. It helps me a lot when playing against decks I've never seen before. It isn't the best, like if your opponent uses Stratos, and one of the first few results is Clayman, you will obviously want to Ash it. Not to mention that "HERO" has one of the highest amount of cards in its archetype.

[@itszhu]

not gonna lie, i didnt even know you could do that, might have actually just saved me lol

[@tinfoilslacks3750]

People like to say they love Yugioh because it's complex, but there's different kinds of complexities. (Some) decks in Yugioh have a lot of decision making and strategic complexity, and that's good. But there's a lot of ruling/technicality complexity in Yugioh that I would wager doesn't facilitate that much strategic complexity and isn't what the hardcore fans who like that yugioh is complicated are on board for. Like, the fact that missing the timing exists, the minute difference between negating an effect and negating an activation, or whether something is or isn't an inherent summon isn't the minutaie even the dedicated playerbase play yugioh for. Nobody ever sat down and said "Pegasus Twin Saber negating at the point of resolution and causing all sorts of awkward edge case rulings is what other card games are missing, it's what I play yugioh for!".

[@wahrt]

I didn't know there are some awkward edge case rulings caused by Pegasus Twin Saber. Can you tell me some? Thanks in advance.

[@starjadiancloneinvestigato1772]

other stuff like the difference between targeting and choosing is so dumb. They should be the same effect but some cards should say "this card bypasses targeting protection". It'll never happen because yu-gi-oh is too old now to errata so many cards but they dropped the ball on that one

[@acasualgameryt6978]

​​​@@starjadiancloneinvestigato1772 this is why yugioh cards have long text and why yugioh will never get keywords. It's because ygo players would rather have "this card bypasses targeting protection" in its text than a single word "choose". Next you're gonna tell me that people should use "resolve without effects" instead of "fizzle".

[@tinfoilslacks3750]

Cards that effectively target (a player actively chooses the recipient of the effect) but don't target purely because the card doesn't say target are a design failure. Yugioh does this all the time, where they print cards with effects that are mechanically identical to previous effects but are phrased differently to dodge specific interactions or triggers. Like when they print cards that say "send from hand to graveyard" instead of discard to avoid discard triggers/synergies, when that's literally what discarding is. @@acasualgameryt6978

[@charlesf.7947]

@@acasualgameryt6978they didn’t say that, I think what they meant is that “choose” shouldn’t exist and all cards should target if you are “choosing”. Idk if I agree but that’s what they meant pretty sure. And it would eliminate one point of confusion for newer players.

[@hadoukenfighter]

It always feels bad when I win a duel not because of anything I did, but because my Opponent got so caught up in all the text a blackwing monster has that they miss the most important part of "can't be destroyed by battle" or "Immune to effects", this has happened atleast twice in master duel.

[@xanthos8661]

Its why i play marincess lol

[@JustJustin.]

The first sentence of Full Armor Master is, "Unaffected by other cards' effects." Did they even TRY reading the card?

[@pablitosuperpoderoso4343]

It happens to me when i play umi control, people don't read that sea stealth attack protects all water monsters that are ORIGINALLY level 5 , and the effect is not one per turn. So people just crash on Kairyu-shin (that is level 4 due to a legendary ocean) the monster gets destroyed, then, they revive the monster by some effect and crash against it again, and again the monster is destroyed.

[@bobsnob9246]

This is why i always run kaijus

[@zaneassefa7711]

I think more people would play Yu-Gi-Oh if Konami made a rule book that explains other important rulings than just how the game is played.

[@Zero_de_Nova]

I want so bad that the cardtext color changes if it is a cost or effect.

[@dudono1744]

What you described at the start of the video applies to every tutor effect in existence. You kind of have to guess what the deck you're facing plans to do (or, if you're playing casually, you can probably ask your opponent the gist of their deck). If you take the example of superfactorial, you know that a level 12 Synchro or a 3 material rank 4 Xyz is about to come, and these tend to be pretty dangerous.

[@davidtowers1863]

I've never seen the synchro

[@mr.orange2192]

​@@davidtowers1863Geomathmech Final Sigma. You sometimes make it just to have an extra towers on the field.

[@ygofrom0]

I think this is part of why retro formats like Goat and Edison have been thriving lately. Yes you do have to learn what the best decks in the format do, but once you do that won't really ever change because no new cards will get added to the card pool. So there's not a frustrating feeling of, "all the effort I spent learning these decks is now down the drain". Of course retro formats have their own issues, but a fair amount of people find those flaws more palatable than the flaws of the advanced format.

[@shakeweller]

I had trouble explaining a friend why a Tearlaments Rukhallos I stole with TTT doesnt trigger when i send it with snake eye oak to summon from deck. He went into a rage how unintuitive Yugioh effects are. It's even funnier when even pro players have to call judges all the time at the top tables. If even the pros struggle to play correctly, something is out of hand.

[@acasualgameryt6978]

Honestly, the best way imo is to show your friend the master duel's duel log where it shows that Oak did in fact send Rulkallos as a cost and show them that Rulkallos need to be sent by card effects to be revived, THEN explain to them that "Text before the semicolon " ; " (but after the colon, if any) describes anything that happens when that card or effect is activated (such as costs and targeting)". It's hard but that is the least confusing way that I can think of to explain Cost to someone.

[@DarkAuraLord]

It's even worse than that, the sanctioned JUDGES don't even know how to make correct calls sometimes, to the point that entire ruling precedents are placed upon the shoulders of a handful of judges at a singular event. This game is for fucking lawyers.

[@serraramayfield9230]

@@acasualgameryt6978 Master Duel isn't a ruling source, bad call

[@acasualgameryt6978]

​@@serraramayfield9230 it isn't the most accurate source, but it gives the least confusion for new players imo. You show them this [i.imgur.com/WlqbTgl.png ], then this [i.imgur.com/bm5P1KH.png ], and finally explain to them about how cost works. This is a better way for new players to understand the ruling than just telling them about it.

[@Creative.Pursuit]

​@acasualgameryt6978 I don't think you made the case you were intending to make. This game will die in the long run simply because these types of rules are too niche to remember and apply on a per card basis. Checking for semi colons and specific words. Game mechanics for the sake of game mechanics and not the betterment of the game isn't smart. There are little to no expectations that people naturally come into this game as they're attracted by these cool game mechanics. If anything they're a deterrent to the new and old gen.

[@DraphEnjoyer]

There's more of an issue to meta decks other than "just don't play them". Meta decks warp ban lists around them. Like the recent banning of Link Kuriboh solely because of snake eyes instead of just knee capping Snake Eyes

[@carter5377]

I'm trying to teach my GF how to play master duel. She was a salutorian in high school, graduated college with a 3.8 GPA, and is currently going for her 2nd masters. She still can't figure out this game without running out the 300 second timer.

[@LChaos2]

You're probably teaching her in the incorrect order.

[@carter5377]

@@LChaos2 care to elaborate?

[@LChaos2]

@@carter5377 Teaching a game is usually goes in the order of basic operations -> basic strategy -> complex strategy and navigation of active opposition. It's possible you're skipping steps, or teaching one part halfway and then moving on to the next.

[@junosalt1]

​@@LChaos2 Point is though, just because it technically CAN be learned by somebody willing to put in the work to learn most effectively doesn't mean it's fine. This is a card game. We want people to have fun and we want to draw as many people in as possible. It shouldn't be a chore. If smarmy smart boys keep insisting that the problem is new players, their game will die.

[@LChaos2]

@@junosalt1 The problem isn't entirely new players being bad learners. It's also because of current players being bad teachers. All learning takes effort. You have to consciously work to not only receive information, but to also retain, and extrapolate theory based on what you receive. Yugioh at a basic level is very easy to learn. Normal Summon and smorc isn't a complex concept. If you want to strategize and use the rest of the mechanics to add more depth to your play, you should learn baseline things first before exploring the rest.

[@kayoss4667]

Just yesterday a freind and I where confused why therion king wasn't negating a god damn graydle in md, turns out if destroyed by battle graydles trigger in the damage step and thus can't be hit by spell speed 2 We are both sesond players

[@acasualgameryt6978]

Damage step rulings are so confusing that the TCG even has "(except during the Damage Step)" on a lot of cards, despite the rules already covering what Can and Can't activate in the Damage Step. Imagine playing the OCG and having to explain why Scheiren can't activate during the damage step but Reinoheart can.

[@spyro2002]

Not by any spell speed 2, there's specific stuff that can and can't. In terms of negates you can only use the ones that negate activations but not the ones that negate effects like regulus

[@Atomsk88]

I've played Yu-Gi-Oh since the beginning and have played off and on. Currently, I'm reading paragraphs of text for cards I haven't see in the last few years. Heaven forbid you miss a conditional effect or don't know how it will interact with other cards. It just flat out isn't fun, especially waiting for your opponent to finish Special Summoning a full board from all these cards.

[@phorchybug3286]

If it's so complicated, why are my manuals only a teeny couple of pages?

[@baxterbruce9827]

The manuals have basic rules and field layout, not all of the 10000+ cards in existence and how each one interacts with each other

[@Argenta_Rosa]

​@@baxterbruce9827 Because that would be stupid :)

[@spicymemes7458]

I enjoy its moments, but I'm slowly phasing out. I'm not really teaching anyone to play this. If this ship goes down, I'm sure there will be a lot to talk about. Konami is incompetent and the players are miserable, neither of which show any sign of getting better right now.

[@swisschese1323]

Yugioh Master Duel has done phenomenal job at introducing new players to the game and make the newbie experience easier imo, from highlighting card effects, having a related cards feature, using the ocg texting format,...

[@Daifualt]

A lot of Yu-Gi-Oh! players will say the game is similar to a fighting game in that knowing your combos is crucial and finishing them will net you an advantage. That's only half true, there is another crucial part of Fighting games that Yu-Gi-Oh! also requires and might be more mandatory, it's Matchup knowledge, knowing when your opponent is vulnerable from a -frame/Hantrap is extremely important, but due to the complexity of Yu-Gi-Oh! and it's ever growing roster of "characters" it becomes extremely difficult to enter, there is only so much advantage you can gain from knowing fundamentals and learning every single archetype is an extreme task for a beginner who doesn't know his When from his Ifs. I love this aspect of the game, but for people entering the game it's better to just never enter its orbit.

[@randomprotag9329]

yugioh would benefit from controled formats with a limited number of decks which rotate out. learning the match up of a few decks makes learning the match ups conistently realistic.

[@_Flame9029]

as a new player, im kinda only playing against myself, where i need to remember my combos, think of what to put out and what to do i dont even have the privilege of considering what the enemy wants to do, what part of their combo to interrupt, what board they want..im just lacking 5+ years of experience that that needs

[@f.b.iagent3971]

This was exactly Ready Fusion for me, I pulled a copy of it and was told the card is damn good, but I kept reading it and reading all of the targets, yet I could not figure out the reason why it’s good

[@acasualgameryt6978]

MBT is correct. Ygo players suck at talking about cards. A lot of times people talk about cards way too out of context. I have seen so many people explain to even new players that Branded was good because it can Puppet Lock and not because it has really good recursion. That might be one of the reasons why people think yugioh is just about locking players out of the game. One of the best examples for ygo players being bad at talking about ygo cards is "can X players tell how good these ygo cards are" series (which he also makes fun of) where cards like Trishula are considered "bad" despite being in the last Master Duel WCS winning deck, while Soul Exchange is "good" because of its historical success. This series at best, overgeneralization why a card is good/bad and at worst, making false statements about the cards.

[@sineupp]

what's actually killing ygo is the powercreep and konami's unwillingness or inability to balance the game. in a couple years, the new competitive standard for effects will be like: "during the standby phase: reveal this card from your binder; special summon as many monsters from your extra deck as possible, and if you do, burn the opponent for 1200 because fuck you time rules are still a thing. you can only use this effect of ToadallyBalanced thrice per phase"

[@optimumplatinum2640]

I'm no old player but when I wanted to play a deck, I got completely nuked because they somehow ritual summoned during my turn, negated every card and effect, and left me with a 200/200 level 2 brick. Hell even arc v made pendulum summoning look easy

[@Argenta_Rosa]

​@@optimumplatinum2640 Are you seriously complaining about gishki?

[@optimumplatinum2640]

@@Argenta_Rosa what? is that a hand trap

[@Argenta_Rosa]

​@@optimumplatinum2640 Wait, are you talking about megalith? That deck doesn't set up any negates?

[@ahmadazem4167]

Unfortunately yugioh isn't dying lol

[@gtafan110010]

i got back into ygo when master duel launched and i still have no clue what i'm doing. This video just taught me that if I start a chain, my opponent can respond first. For whatever reason until now i believe that if I start a chain, I had dibs on the first quick effect because of turn player priority. I fully believed that the opponent had just set up something so they could respond earlier. So that's 2 years of me still not understanding the basics of ygo. Nice

[@LeoHeart272]

probably shouldve brushed up on that rule book

[@jamielishbrook2384]

And here I thought it was because modern yugioh isn't a game, like at all, it's a marathon to see who can get their strongest monster in the field first.

[@Nyghtking]

Thats part of it, then you get to the part where you need to start having an in depth knowledge of the mechanics of the game. As an example, you need to know what cards can be used to interrupt a chain even though they may not mention anything about it, because the mechanics of those cards let you do that. Like how there are cards you can discard for effects, but some of those cards are negated if they aren't still in the graveyard at effect resolution, or how you can interrupt your opponent by doing something that makes it so they can't chain, like how there are some cards that, if I remember correctly, if you were to activate their effects, and then remove them from the field to dodge an opponent's card, and return it to the feild during the same phase or the same chain, the effect gets to go off because all that was required was for the card to be on the feild during the resolution of it's effect. It gets to the point where you're at a disadvantage if you don't know the intricacies of the game.

[@NoOnesBCE]

As a new old player I have to say one step at a time learning the cardpool slowly seems like the way as learning any 1 card tells you nothing about what it does unless yoj know the 100 othe cards in the archetype abd how it interacts with generics.

[@xanthos8661]

Now this is funny. The thumbnail suggests branded fusion and solemn judgment is comfusing when there pretty straight forward. Suprising considering how the fireking cards are worded as an example.

[@Write_Rider]

I've had too many arguments with Yugioh players who claim that Master Duel is the best gateway into "Teaching you how to play the game like a professional" and that "It teaches you everything you need to know about the game." Only for my claim that it doesn't to be rejected on the grounds that "You aren't reading all the cards." Why do I have to read every single card in the game and memorize what they do? How many of these cards see play? Why do I need to memorize any given list of cards? This game makes no sense and is impossible for anyone who isn't already heavily invested in to ever keep up with the revolving door of hyper important combos and cards each new set releases in any reasonable way.

[@junosalt1]

Every person I've ever seen insist that this is a "skill issue" has been an authentically miserable person to get to know. This is a card game. It's good for everybody if more people play. But as it stands now, the game is a literal chore. Just because you're dedicated to understanding the minutiae doesn't mean it's good for the game to be full of that minutiae. For the average person, even quite intelligent people, this game is just not fun. Being unwilling to acknowledge that and insisting that everybody else is an idiot reveals a deep flaw in the Yu-Gi-Oh community.

[@giepluto9919]

What chore exactly? now you have the best official Yu-Gi-Oh simulator, that will auto most of the task & interaction in the game, that will highlight the effect of the card that your opponent plays, it's also f2p friendly too... all that is left to do is just read the goddamn card while watching a couple of guide in KZbin and whatnot. Before Master Duel got released all I know about Yu-Gi-Oh is still stuck in the synchro era, that's a decade worth of knowledge gap between shit that I know and modern Yu-Gi-Oh and it only takes me 2 months or so since it got released for me to start competing in the highest rank of Master Duel, and I can assure you I'm just ordinary Joe, not some of smart person or genius.

[@ganymedehedgehog371]

@@giepluto9919yeah master duel makes the game playable for normal people because it also tells you every time an effect can activate. I suppose the issue is that the paper format is still difficult and that’s not the case for magic or Pokémon. Not having the social aspect of the physical format is a problem especially for Konami since it’s fair to say it makes more money than master duel. I think the solution is to double down on speed duel or bring rush duels but they probably won’t do that.

[@optimumplatinum2640]

​@@ganymedehedgehog371my main concern with master duel is that it doesn't really explain much of the advanced mechanics most cards have, like it will teach you to XYZ, synchro, and fusion and etc summons, but not how to effectively counter really aggressive plays, and punish accordingly.

[@americantimemachine7128]

Longtime YGO player here. I can tell you first hand that these players cannot even engage in a rational discussion about game balancing. When identifying certain problems, the arguments always quickly devolve into "WELL THIS ISN'T AS BIG AS A PROBLEM AS THIS, SO IGNORE IT." They really have trouble understanding that multiple aspects of the game are flawed and can all be addressed at once. If the game is made more fun for everyone, it will still inherently hold those elements that make it complex. But the things that make it complex aren't always what make it fun. Look up a recent ruling on Karma Cannon and you realize that even YGO judges needlessly missed a ruling on a popular card because of hyper-specific "if-then" texts. I think a huge problem with Konami is honestly a lack of communication between R&D and banlist management/upper management and marketing. It makes the power creep insane while making the banlist a moot tool.

[@noob_jr_2sjrkc]

More cards could follow the Negate Attack naming scheme.

[@baxterbruce9827]

Yugioh has a lot of problems, but I think most of them boil down to everyone seems to assume every new player is at least at their level of knowledge and skill, when, no, new players, are not. You don't teach someone how to play by breaking out your best thousand dollar deck and OTKing them over and over again. You teach them, by teaching them.

[@randomprotag9329]

its more the issue of not having a reasonably teaching firendly format, yugioh only has a vintage format, theres no standard which gives the new player a chance to learn the game.

[@baxterbruce9827]

@@randomprotag9329 That really shouldn't be stopping people from easing new people in with something that won't immediately OTK the less skilled player because they can't or don't know how to stop it There IS something between modern decks that can OTK 11 out of 10 times and Caveman Yugioh but people like to pretend there isn't

[@randomprotag9329]

@@baxterbruce9827 yugioh does not have that reliable interbetween format to its a one format game where the one format is not a reasonably teaching friendly format.

[@baxterbruce9827]

@@randomprotag9329 This isn't a format thing This is an "OTKing someone 20 times and then calling your own deck bad isn't welcoming or inviting" thing People aren't saying they want to try the game and immediately entering a tournament, they're asking a friend about it The friend, doesn't need to beat the new player that doesn't even know mechanic yet, into the ground with their thousand dollar deck that was good two formats ago and is now bad because of Diabellstar being better

[@lorenztor1990]

Just run an a$$ load of floodgates to prevent these annoying effects so you don't have to read this crap.

[@nutkicker12]

Then komoney bans or limits those same floodgates. Summon limit being a more recent victim.

[@optimumplatinum2640]

Wait till you find out about effect veiler

[@Orchested]

I can stand 1 or two complicated cards, but what kills the game for me is that there is no limit to special summons, draws/searchs, negates and the existance of cards inmune to almost all effects. I just want to clash monsters or destroy them with effects, not a match of overcomplicated solitarie

[@XYGamingRemedyG]

That "effect" on branded is awesome

[@JZblue9]

Meanwhile, somewhere at all moments in time: "So anyway, activate There Can Be Only One/Rivalry of Warlords/Gozen Match/Summon Limit/Deck Lockdown/etc."

[@randomprotag9329]

one of the issues is that theres no general thing to look at a card and get an good idea based on reading one card. the major thing with colour systems is that by keeping types of effects mainly if not entirely in one colour just seeing a blue card gives an idea of what to watch out for.

[@Argenta_Rosa]

That is literally the archetype system

[@randomprotag9329]

@@Argenta_Rosa the archetype system is different. a colour type system means that an returning / understanding new player can see an an atribute/type and get a good loose idea of the gameplay deck they never seen before. yugioh does not have this even as a soft system. a player who does not know what sky striker does could not even educated guess its a control deck just from seing ray is a dark warrior.

[@SilverBoans]

ocg do have a system cards have numbers on them. This is a unique tcg issue the ocg layout of yugioh cards has spacing and bullet points clarifying what comes first what happens first etc..heck go to ygo organisation right now look at a translated yugioh card kike ragna raika then look at its tcg release and translation and you will.find the ocg layout is friendly to the eyes and you can fully understand the card

[@juanyz5351]

ugh and now with snake eyes 1 card does everything, this sucks

[@mrmeow2297]

Speed duel fixes all of this but it’s not popular enough

[@rolesison9179]

Are you a Filipino by any chance?. How could you understand what 3:14 said?

[@Billy_Wyatt]

The learning of the game has increased by a mile so it's safe to say the game is no longer newbie friendly thus why more formats should be available for play and yes, there are options but they have their cons and pros. Kind of unstable situation.

[@QuestLogFaker]

The second you brought up chess I nearly fell out of my seat, I feel like that kid who got his joke stolen by the popular kid and then everyone laughed lmao.

[@graniyeet-6464]

I love how the example strategy deck when it comes to confusion is the deck I always use. D/D/D my beloved

[@denzelnatha9075]

I think speed duel should be the main focus on the konami marketing for old heads. It is the closest format to the yugioh anime

[@President-of-Funny]

Look, the average d/d combo isn't THAT complicated. All you need to do is *proceeds to go into a 30 minute monologue on how to play the deck*

[@pablitosuperpoderoso4343]

Yu gi oh is very hard to adapt if you did not follow the evolution of the game, i did started to play in 2022 the tag force series, and each game guide me to a faster and more complex yu gi oh. But when i jumped to tag force 6 to special i felt really hard to adapt to Xyz summoning because the games totally skipped that era of yu gi oh (it is my least favorite mechanic probably because of that). And now getting to master duel has been a pain to learn, i feel like i need to learn how to play with all the meta decks so i can play against then. Plus this decks are too op, rescue ace and labirinth are basically infinity engines and Kashtira banish everything no matter what you do even, sabersoul can syncro high level monster with only one card.

[@hugo-kut8614]

I got super hyped up by Pokémon TCG pocket, after des years of hearthstone I thought ill Check on yugioh while waiting and… uh… too. much. informations. Its not manageable going from scratch, I thought rush duel might be a thing for me but it’s just another format in duel links ? I’ll just wait for TCG pocket.

[@Thebatmantyler]

That’s why I always say “think five steps ahead.”

[@optimumplatinum2640]

Unless they ftk you, which happens quite a bit now

[@lordzia6919]

I think masterduel has really helped teach me how chain links work and a bit more about timings and such but its shortcoming for me has been not explaining to me why i cannot do a certain thing. As mentioned in your video "why my traphole no work?". Thats a big problem for me. For example if im trying to use forbidden droplet and it will not let me activate the card i wish it would tell me "activation prevented by your opponent's effect monster kashtira ariseheart" i lost to timeout reading every card on my opponent's field, gy and banishment trying to understand. Only through asking reddit with a screenshot of the game board did somebody explain that ariseheart prevents cards from being sent to the GY since he banishes them. If the game would just tell me which card prevents the action im trying to take it would be a great help in learning the game. In real life if i was in that situation and tried to activate droplet my opponent would tell me why i cant and explain. Id appreciate that same explanation in MD.

[@PeircingBattleDamage]

Might i advocate for new players to start off in Edison format?

[@TeamAPS]

Honestly, well said.

[@Argenta_Rosa]

The "problem" on display here is only an issue because yugioh is a card game. It's designed around not having perfect information and around every deck operating in a different way. No card should be completely understandable at a glance, if that happens, every deck in the game loses its identity and a good chunk of the game's skill expression gets thrown out the window. This isn't even exclusive to yugioh. All notable card games function this way, it's part of the genre. It's like complaining that Portal 2 has puzzles.

[@wickd6878]

​@@Argenta_Rosa It's a bit hyperbolic, I think, to say every deck would lose its identity. Examples cited in the video, i.e. caveman cards, are simple. I don't need to know what your deck has in it when you activate pot of greed, card advantage is scary enough. But now with an inordinate amount of search effects, I have to know what you are looking for, even if I've never played against your deck before. It's still card advantage, yes, but now you KNOW what you're going to "draw" and I don't. THAT is frightening as a newer player.

[@optimumplatinum2640]

​​@@Argenta_Rosasee the difference is that this isn't a puzzle, each card should be able to be understood by each player, it doesn't have to be a "flip: draw one card" but it needs to be known what it does, when it does it, and why As explained, in chess, everyone knows what each piece does, but the nuance is the tactics and strategies, it's why each game is not the same But for most new players, games end in about 4 turns or less, which is really daunting if you don't have enough time to read what a card does, and by the time you have, they already summoned 4 cards

[@Argenta_Rosa]

​@@optimumplatinum2640 You misunderstood my argument. Yugioh is a tcg and the problem of hidden information and unintuitive cards exists in all major tcgs. It's a genre problem not a Yugioh problem.

[@Argenta_Rosa]

​@@wickd6878Play any tcg and you'll realize that this isn't a Yugioh issue. Believe it or not, we want to execute our gameplans, which is why Tudors exist. Yugioh is simply faster than other card games, but that is one of the core appeals of Yugioh, you cannot fix this "issue" without fundamentally changing what makes Yugioh such a fun game.

[@Frank-cl8nr]

d/d/d mentioned

[@c0l0rslayer31]

Yugioh is a lawyers game

[@renaldyhaen]

I don't feel YGO is a complicated game right now. Because we can see more new cards/arctype has less restriction or sometimes no restrictions at all. If YGO is really "interesting" because of its complexity, we should still play with Master Rule 4. But somehow players who love complex games don't like the decision when Konami tries to make the game more complex. YGO now, it's just long. It is like a college student trying to use weird language and extend simple sentences by repeating the same point but with different words and terminology. . That's why I still think this game needs a 2nd alternative format, with lower power and a faster setup. There are a lot of interesting simple modern decks like U.A., Gate Guardian, S-Force, etc. . We see a lot of common people trying the game but stop immediately because of how crazy the game is. An alternative format with lower power, faster setup, and less intimidation will be very helpful for everyone who wants to learn the game, or at least enjoy the game. . This is my conspiracy theory. The reason why we only have 1 official format. Because Konami wants to mix both strong and weak decks on purpose. The strong deck is usually far stronger. When a player uses the strong deck, against a weaker deck, they can win easily and it gives them a feeling as a "good player". To keep that feeling, a player needs to buy a strong deck in every format, and that deck is usually expensive. If they make a format too balanced, or all deck's power is equal. Their value is gone, no reason to buy a new deck if it cannot give the feeling of a "good player". (This conspiracy theory is never wrong, unless Konami creates alternative official standard formats. At least in MD, they have the tools to analyze and create near-perfect balanced formats)

[@Kastrounaras]

1:56 ?????

[@christiansamaroo]

That’s why we have dpygo.

[@davidtowers1863]

Yu-Gi-Oh's problem isnt its confusing cards. Its badly designed ones. Ash Blossom has set us towards the end. I will agree that missing timing is the worst thing ever but. Theres no other good tcg on this planet. Not even close. Yu-Gi-Oh played for fun around dumb cards is the most fun that can be had with any cards

[@blueblaze7312]

Two words that will instantly help players play Yu-Gi-Oh more. NORMAL MONSTERS! that is all

[@the_nerd_showtv5562]

Well, in a way, YGO is kinda liek chess. If you don't know the opening someone is playing, you will be easily "OTKed" (like with rhe scholar's mate". If you don't know rhe theory well enough, tou won't be able to see the checkmate coming. Heck, if you don't know what an en-passant is, you will think your opponent is cheating. The problem of YGO complexity ks thst there are thousands of en-passant, wich make the game seems like a court case.

[@Argenta_Rosa]

Oh no, a game about how various cards have unique interactions doesn’t have every single interaction written down in our already bloated card text. Literally, every card game is like this. It's how strategies and unique playstyles form.

[@nial1396]

this is a bad argument. It's like saying fighting games are bad because they have a large depth of comboes you need to learn for each character; this is one of the prime appeals of the game. Your description of the mathmeth trap card can be extended to Monster Reborn and Pot of Greed which you described as simple cards. If I am resurrecting a promethean princess, only a "competitive"(?) player will know it can revive another fire to then link into raging phoenix, which makes zealantis.. etc. Pot of Greed's hidden text is whatever the text of the two cards you drew were. These are awful talking points and arguments on suggesting simplification of the game. "Dumbing it down" to appeal to a wider audience homogenises the appeal of the game, which makes it more bland as a result. People play Yu-Gi-Oh and similar card games for this level of depth, and people play Fighting Games for its level of depth comparatively. The cool looking cards/fighters are to draw players in, who might then stay for the actual gameplay.

[@nmr7203]

What fighting game requires you to learn the combos of every single character. What on Earth is this comparison.

[@optimumplatinum2640]

You don't need to learn combos in most games, but know how to play "footsies" or really up close play, watch a couple of evo events and watch how they play. Sure they use combos but not all the time

[@americantimemachine7128]

If you think the "inner complexities" of a chain-link 12 in a Tearlament mirror match are why people play Yugioh, I have to say this is just an incredibly shallow opinion. Yeah, the situation is complex. But with all that brain-power, you think the people actually navigating that would also be curing cancer already. The fact is, those interactions feel more like labor than they do fun, and most of the players that choose to do it are Yugitubers or people who feel emptiness outside of being good at a TCG. Everything needs mediated, and this game can have the *correct* kind of complexities if they choose to gravitate the game that way. But their main priority has always been short term sales. 20 years of trying to achieve short-term results got the game to where it is: a mess that is being absolutely carried by the recent addition of Master Duel and no announcements of a YCS in a strange amount of time.

[@nial1396]

@americantimemachine7128 people have been calling this game a mess that is being carried by something that isn't the core gameplay since dino rabbit, maybe even earlier, and yet it is still one of the most popular card games. I think they are doing something right and the game is simply not what you specifically want it to be.

[@americantimemachine7128]

@@nial1396 not sure if that was a reply to anyone

[@OmegaVideoGameGod]

Yugioh was always a complex series and I loved it

[@masterowl123]

wat

[@tofuonion1150]

no

[@cynthiacrescent]

dota 2 enjoyer? based

[@shaughtzer]

This arguement completely falls apart when you look at the popularity of Commander in Magic.

[@madgameplay4658]

No lol

[@samuelllakaj5439]

No.

[@talenstout8324]

Not really that complicated. Also combos are fun. Also powerful things are fun. Well arn’t most card games complicated, as in having a lot of rulings. 1 last thing, stop being so toxic.

[@optimumplatinum2640]

One turn combo be like

[@zyroberk]

this is honestly a skill issue. having basic reading skills and understanding basic premises of ygo is not hard, you are not a 10 year old.

[@Pawg_Alf]

It's not so much an issue of skill, but trivia. Because of mechanics like the extra deck, special summoning and searching the deck you can't reasonably determine your position without being really familiar with the opponent's archtype. Like sure your opponent might only have one card in hand but that could be the start of a 1 card combo that floods the board. Or you can't really determine how good some cards are by looking at them because usually a 500/1500 normal monster is useless except there's some super boss monster in a completely different archtype that wants a 3 star wind fairy with less than 1000 attack points and it just so happens this is the only option.

[@KeiCeeVN]

@@Pawg_Alf Example would be Sunseed Genius Loci, who can first look at a single Unexpected Dai summon a Loci can be a whole 15 minutes combo result in multiple disruption

[@optimumplatinum2640]

​@KeiCeeVN and remember, you have a pool of 300 seconds that gets used anytime you can counter/read the board, its a time thing too

[@americantimemachine7128]

@@Pawg_Alf with 40+ somewhat relevant archetypes/engines out there, it also just feels to many people that there are better things to do in life.