Confusing Parts of Ice and Fire

Carmine and I discuss confusing parts of Ice and Fire on our first reads. We felt dumb.
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Game of Thrones is an American fantasy drama television series created for HBO by David Benioff and D. B. Weiss. Based on the fantasy novel series, A Song of Ice and Fire by George R.R. Martin. A Game of Thrones is one of the most successful television series to ever made and continues to captivate audiences all over the world. The series is set on the fictional continents of Westeros and Essos, and interweaves several plot lines with a large ensemble cast. The first narrative arc follows a civil war among several noble houses for the Iron Throne of the Seven Kingdoms; the second covers the attempts to reclaim the throne by the exiled last scion of the realm's deposed ruling dynasty; the third chronicles the rising threat of the impending winter and the legendary creatures and fierce peoples of the North.
#asongoficeandfire
#gameofthrones

[@NukeMarine]

I remember being confused reading AGoT because I was spoiled that Ned would die. Get to the end of the chapter where Littlefinger puts the dagger to Ned's throat and I'm thinking he killed Ned. Then he's back in the black cells and I'm super confused so dismissed the spoiled information so his actual death became a surprise again.

[@yeahey5947]

Yea grrm planned that

[@tobilandsfried8083]

Lmao same

[@stefannedelcu1536]

Same

[@L3monsta]

I remember hearing someone getting confused but by the opposite situation because they thought he lived because people keep talking about him so long after his death

[@EvernhamNo9]

Same

[@carl-henrikfelth3985]

It took me way longer than it should to realise that "the Usurper" was Robert.

[@faisalkamal4319]

A lie take it out

[@kitkat6959]

The Meereen stuff confused the hell out of me, I was so happy when she finally flew away with Drogon.

[@ExtraVictory]

That bit doesn't actually matter anymore tho so since ASOIAF will never have an ending

[@wingy200]

But it's not over. Ser Barristan is still in that shit hole training knights and shit. I just hope he doesn't get assassinated like in the show. Fuck me dead, I hate the Meereen plot.

[@ExtraVictory]

@@wingy200 lmao interesting choice of words, but to be fair no part of ASOIAF will ever be "over" except maybe Preston fan fiction

[@joeshafer6806]

Skill issue

[@ticket_puncher]

It's not nearly as confusing as the books because all you get is names so you can't associate someone's face and there's like 5× as many characters and plots going on compared to the show

[@zacharytrainor589]

I first read the books when I was 13. I barely grasped the plots of the point of view chapters, never mind all of the Varys and Littlefinger plots and schemes. Then I started listening to David Brings Light Bearer's and Preston's theories and realized I never truly read the books.

[@Hana9916]

Same!!!

[@blanketsquares7607]

I also read them at 13, I thought mance in winterfell in adwd was just some random bard guy 6 random lady friends

[@zacharytrainor589]

@blanketsquares7607 yes! I thought he was outside the walls!

[@shinrugal]

@@zacharytrainor589 Mance is one of my favorite characters and he shows up when you don't expect (like when he reveals that he was at Winterfell during the feast for Robert)

[@MadIvano]

You mean David Lightbringer?

[@jeffreyjbyron]

This is a really good question. First time reading I was really confused about the House of the Undying. I couldn't tell what was hallucinations and what was physically happening. When drogon burns everything I wasn't sure if that was still a vision or what. Were there actually undying goblins sucking her life juice out? The other thing that is obviously confusing is the sheer number of names and characters. Especially in audiobook (much easier in text), it's like going to a party and meeting 100 people and trying to remember all their names.

[@avonbarksdale2506]

always read like a LSD trip for me lol

[@jeffreyjbyron]

@@avonbarksdale2506 that's essentially what it was, but it was confusing about how it ended, where the actual danger was. She just had a bad trip, lol! Shade of the evening takes a couple trips to get used to. Don't knock it on the first go!

[@alecesne]

You need a trip sitter you can trust, which is the complete opposite of the Tower 😅

[@jeffreyjbyron]

@@alecesne Lol yeah I had a chaperone the first time. Imagine that a dragon is the only thing that can talk you down...

[@Osirishnp]

It was me! I asked the question in a super chat and he answered it :) my question being part of the podcast makes me happy. Keep up the content you guys are the best.

[@OfficialRedTeamReview]

Actually it was someone else. Some guy named Hanz

[@leadfaun]

The Battle of the Blackwater was super confusing, particularly the arrangement of all the ships. I had to reread that part like 10 times.

[@cesarbayone4305]

Oh my god dude thank you! The whole chain thing was so confusing 😂 I felt so dumb haha the showblack water was better

[@shinrugal]

This part did not confuse me at all. But then again I figured out the battle that George was referencing (it's basically the Battle of Chi Bi during the Three Kingdoms period of China where the superior fleet was tricked by a spy into chaining their ships together and they were then set on fire (thank you Video games and history class in college))

[@twiss9341]

@@shinrugalThat’s awesome thank you

[@facundomedina9762]

And it all becomes even more confusing by having the battle take over 3 different POV's. Like you're reading what's going on in the blackwater with Davos, and the next moment you're having Tyrion talk to their army as if the battle hasn't started yet, and then you get second hand descriptions of it from Lancel during Sansa's POV

[@DeegeCar91]

"Who is the hooded man that calls Theon a turncloak in winterfell?" is is definitely a confusing one that deals with a lot of plot points, but that's a more advanced mystery, not something confusing on first read.

[@Longshanks1690]

The fall of Winterfell (Ramsay’s sack) really, REALLY confused me for a while, especially since there are so many more complicating factors like Ramsay pretending to be Reek and the fact we don’t get a clear cut answer as to what exactly transpired in what order until 2 books later really threw me for a loop - arguably we still don’t have a clear answer and most of the piecing together of events comes from fan inference. Even though I’d watched the show and knew that streamlined series of events, I was still thrown for a loop by the way that those events were described in the book.

[@coldwaterburns_]

SAME I just could not figure out wtf Ramsey was talking about when he was telling how he switched places with Reek. I read it like six times and still didn't get it, eventually I resorted to looking up Ramsey's page on the wiki 🥲

[@jewsco]

@@tornado4708winterfell was barely defended as most of the soldiers were off at war , they didn’t expect to be attacked , Theon had knowledge of winterfell as he lived there for years

[@Bonkatsu12]

Well the show is actually far more confusing on the sack of winter fell, since they don’t introduce Ramsay until much later.

[@lovablesnowman]

I think it's just badly written. Flat out. There's far too many fans who just didn't understand what happens. That's just bad writing for me

[@matt_9112]

​@@tornado4708it was only one man in fact. Sir Twenty-Goodmen, who was seen in the show later on, after defecting to Ramsey (that's also how Ramsey took Winterfell).

[@zimmn]

Ref: 19:04 So about the upcoming book series, the title's have been leaked: The Fire and the blood 2 fire 2 blood Fire and blood: Asshai Drift Fire and blood Fire five Fire and blood 6 Blood 7 The fate of the blood Fire and blood presents: dunk and Egg F9 Fire X

[@woodyhorton8537]

Lmfao u just made my day

[@chadsummerchild1120]

I remember being confused that Theon was Reek my first read.

[@TBIRD722000]

To be fair I think we were all meant to be confused about that. It was intentionally written to be a bit of a sad/shocking reveal

[@bananaforscale1283]

There were like 3 Reeks. That was cofusing

[@kitkat6959]

For me it was Ramsay being Reek at first. Totally missed it.

[@joeyeardley4002]

I was confused that Eddard was Ned

[@michals5873]

@@joeyeardley4002:D

[@pedromenchik1961]

Also: Quentyn’s boat, fAegon’s boat, Victarion’s boat, all going to the same place and full of new characters

[@ickyham2228]

“Promise me, Ned” which I know has still not been clarified in ASOIAF, but it got to a point in the book(fever dream, maybe?) where I was like “Am I missing something, what promise?” I went back and started rereading…

[@Valkanna.Nublet]

I noticed that it's even more than that when I reread. First I was thinking "Is is that protecting the child? or telling the child about her?" Then I reread and see that it's promises, plural. So if there's a promise about the child, what are the other promises?

[@sreyarthakrishna6195]

When I first read GoT, for some reason I thought I had read in the first chapter that "Promise me, Ned" was about Lyanna asking Ned to promise that he'd bury her in the crypts of Winterfell. Like, this wasn't my theory, I just thought the book has actually said that. So I went through the rest of the book confused why Ned was obsessing so much about a promise that he completed years ago.

[@tombullard123]

I think its very spoilerish, wont be revealed till later books. The promise/promises are at least 1) a promise to take her body back to winterfell. 2) promise to protect her child jon snow/raise him as his child

[@Dglenn2185]

Yes, do THAT Carmine. The Dunk and Egg stories are shorter than the main series but equally as good. THEN do the graphic novel, it’s the same but if you’re a super fan like me you enjoy it.

[@scummyfish]

I wouldn't say as good. It really lacks the complexity, world-building and diversity of character and theme of the main series. That being said, I think reading Dunk and Egg is just as enjoyable as reading only one POV character of the main series.

[@Raktasdelespacio]

@@scummyfish Depending on taste or what you want at the time, I'd say that the streamlined narrative makes Dunk and Egg stories better than the main series at times. Shorter, clearer, fewer food descriptions, very satisfying.

[@scummyfish]

@@Raktasdelespacio sure, depends on taste. That was just my personal opinion.

[@wingy200]

@@scummyfish But with Harry Lloyd reading the audio book, it's quite enjoyable. He's an excellent narrator. Well worth an Audible credit.

[@constantinekorkousky3363]

The two men ayra overheard talking in the first book confounded me until I finished the series lol. I had to look up who they were (Varys and illeryo)

[@ottolindfors]

Whaaaat, i didnt get that until now.

[@jowston100]

The fucking talking tree at the Black Gate. I remember rereading that passage like, 10 times and still didn't get it.

[@elijahrodriguez647]

isnt the explanation for that just magic? i didnt give it a second thought.

[@YarPirates-vy7iv]

The Brave Companions thing confused me too it was out of nowhere, and the only explanation was 'they switched sides'.

[@pieceofgosa]

The Brave companions immediately start shit with Lorch's garrison at Harrenhal & then they end up in a big fight with the Lannister men. Harys Swift's squire gets killed & two Brave Companions end up getting hanged for it. There's your explanation.

[@YarPirates-vy7iv]

@@pieceofgosaI guess there are people in the world who would commit treason and endanger their lives and everything they've built because their employees got into a scuffle with a competitor. Yeah, there is an explanation in the story. It's not really satisfying or well thought out as currently presented I think.

[@jones877]

​@@YarPirates-vy7ivmercenaries switch sides all the time

[@Caramelo23606]

They mercenaries, they are in it for the money simple as, maybe Roose's cold, alien, ruthless calculation impressed them more than Tywin's insecure ruthless calculation. Also, even if Tywin is the master of monsters, Roose vampire persona fits better with their group and their haunted castle and for sure they took that into account.

[@InvaderZed]

Didn't they majorly fuck up in harrenhal and went to the next meal ticket they could get.

[@lodovicoodak9401]

I challenge anyone to have a more embarrassing story than mine. Agot, first time reading it, 20 odds years ago. I was confused between the Mormonts, Jeor and Jorah. I was so confused that I thought they were the same character, and that the Dany story and the rest of the book was on different timelines ( no sci-fi but simply happening afterwards/ before). Yeah.

[@MegaMacReal]

I thought Drogon, Arya, Hot Pie, and bowls of brown were the same character!

[@IntermissionForBunny]

I still don't understand what was going on with Old-Reek vs Ramsay-Reek vs Theon-Reek. It's like a fever dream

[@Galvatronover]

Old reek was some bloke Ramsay dad brought into take care of him as a child Ramsay was fond of him so he brought in Theon to replace the old one

[@bajes328]

The series should be renamed "Who the fuck is that and what is going on ?"

[@DzzO]

I remember going back a couple of pages trying to figure out the difference between the others and the wights.

[@Foster-kj3rv]

the audio book and the comics for the dunc n eggs stories are both excellent. highly recommend doing em both.

[@daviejohnstone12]

For me the ghost in winterfell is quite a bit to take in with all the freys and the wildlings present then the whole manderly situation and from theons pov it gets so confusing i read it 3 times the first time i read the book. Probably my favourite chapter tho.

[@michaeljsnappers]

The only thing in aSoS I found confusing was Arya's Nymeria dream with Catelyn's body post red wedding. I didn't catch on to Lady stoneheart until the epilogue

[@perjulianlundbergtande8956]

Was super confused whether Duncan the Tall was knighted or not, I'm still not sure actually haha

[@BLooDCoMPleX]

It's meant to be ambiguous, the implication is that he's probably lying and was never actually knighted.

[@Caramelo23606]

He also has quite a few bastards for a Knight of the Kingsguard but it doesn't matter because he does things his own way and his heart is that of a Knight, the same with his descendants who are also not annointed knights (Brienne and Walder)

[@novedad4468]

Wait, Walder? I knew about Brienne, but who is this Walder, descendant of ser Duncan the tall? If you are referring to Hodor because that was his actual name, I can't remember it tbh.

[@elinakeranen4499]

Brave companions didn't confuse me. They don't need to be good just because they are on the good guys side. Sellswords are independent actors and they do whatever is beneficial to them. I think it was good example when at one point they said they went around asking villages who are Lannister's men and when they switched sides they went back to kill everyone who gave it them information. And he thought it was hilarious. Kings and lords use whoever is available and they'll overlook unknowingly or begrudgingly whatever cruelties.

[@ryasa777]

Counting the War of the Ninepenny Kings as the Fifth Blackfyre Rebellion is cool because it would mean the whole FAegon situation would be the 6th and he’d also be King Aegon VI

[@woodyhorton8537]

Speaking of bonifer hasty and his holy hundred I wonder how that will play out considering the high sparrow and other holy men are now armed and taking over

[@maxliu6609]

I had no idea who reek or Ramsay was for the longest time since they pulled 2 switcheroos (once when Ramsay got captured, and once when ramsay took winterfell. Also, who was brienne fighting when she went on that trip with Clarence Mudd and the squishers? I kept thinking it was the brave companions but that didn't make any sense.

[@HelFrostKara]

Well the mystery is part of the charm, I feel. Everyone is an un reliable narrator, subject to their own biases and understanding of things so they may not interpret things they see in the same ways. Understandable that Preston was confused by who pushed Bran out the window. Bran being a young kid had limited knowledge at the time. Reminds me, that I was confused by who Arya saw having a secret meeting in the first book (Varys and Illyrio meeting by the dragon bones). Arya didn't recognise them, and it is so early on that I had no idea lol.

[@mistermaestersirthomas9164]

Ned’s not really dead, he’s living his best second life inside “broken man” Illyn Payne. Illyn has been rehilted with a skull like Ice has been.

[@YarPirates-vy7iv]

Finally, a new theory! I like it. Do you think he'll hook up with Lady Stoneheart and start a little zombie family?

[@mistermaestersirthomas9164]

@@YarPirates-vy7iv opposite. Second piece of information you need: Rob didn’t die. “Pale pink cloaked man” Ramsey didn’t stab him in the heart (future “Stoneheart” Cat doesn’t “know where the heart is”; also people stabbed in the don’t stumble around talking to die in his mother’s arms, GRRM is weaponizing tropes against us.) Instead, Ramsey bled out Rob, placed Greywind head over Rob’s head (“eye’s in the dark” are looking out Greywind’s maw in Daenerys’ vision), and replaced Rob with Manderley’s son’s decapitated body. Rob is now a “Reek(4)” (“Reek you have two heads”) along with Theon Reek(3) and can only be distinguished by their finger count on each hand, both seven total. Theon has two on his bow firing hand five on the off hand and CAN’T hold a knife (cleared of the murder); Rob has three and four (probably) and CAN hold a sword (Moat Cailin killing of the leader). “Do those fools really think you were Greyjoy prince?” was directed at the reader though the fourth wall. Anyway, Cat will try to kill Theon for Bran’s and Rickon’s “murder”, she will kill Rob instead grabbing the wrong Reek. She won’t realize her mistake killing her “heir/hair” until he dies commenting on her hair again as he did during his first “death”. By then the wolf/dog pack will be around and Rob (and future Rickon) will live a second life in there. Ned the “executioner” who “should be the one who swings the sword” will find Stoneheart and kill her for Rob’s death. Ayra will kill “Illyn Payne” for her mother’s murder, not realizing it’s Ned until it’s too late.

[@mistermaestersirthomas9164]

@@YarPirates-vy7iv note: my quotes are remembered badly, but close.

[@KingOfWinter]

Theon being reek confused me as well as Ramsey’s entrance into the story. I legit thought Ramsey was Reek pretending to be Ramsey who really died at the gates of Winterfell and he took Theon and made him his Reek because now he could be the bully for once and maybe as a highborn shield Incase someone realized he wasn’t Ramsey lol. It wasn’t until after the Red Wedding and Roose returning to the North and seeing Ramsey and not immediately killing him as a imposter that I realized it was the real Ramsey lol. And still part of me thinks Roose wouldn’t care if it was Reek and not his son as long as it benefited him lol

[@charlesjermyn5001]

Oh come on "I didn't know it was Jammie", it's literrally shown in the next chapter, exposed by Tyrion, like how long he needed to understand that it was Voldemort who killed Harry's parents XD But that's true than some parts are complex... Ho, by the way, King and General did cover some fantasy battle including some from ASoIaF (like Blackwater's bay) you may check that out.

[@Mj_Jetson]

I remember each time I finished a book (excluding AGoT), I'd stare blankly at the ceiling for a bit, trying to remember how much of the plot had taken place in the book I'd just finished, versus the one before it. Like, when I finished AFfC, I sat there thinking "how many Jon chapters were here? There was at least one or two, at the beginning of the book... weren't there? Was the kingsmoot in this book or the previous one... I think the ironborn PoVs were introduced here, but didn't Aeron call the kingsmoot before the Red Wedding, cuz I remember Robb finding out about Balon's death, I think? Did the Red Wedding happen in this book? I'm pretty sure that was last book, but I can't remember... And who were those Dornish PoVs who were introduced this book? Arianne and Doran, right?" It was a real difficulty to untangle it all in my mind.

[@scottdaigle]

Dunk and egg is mandatory for a podcast host

[@Gui101do]

Preston King!

[@RLucas3000]

Dunk n Egg is Awesome!

[@morning91]

It really confused me when Bran see's a dragon when in his wolf at Winterfell when emerging from the crypt. I still dont get what its meant to be.

[@feral7523]

The most confusing part of ASoIaF is why George is comfortable with being the guy who almost wrote a great series?

[@ExtraVictory]

He already has legendary status few writers will ever achieve. Tons of money. And the ASOIAF books he did write are indeed amazing

[@ExtraVictory]

Considering all that maybe he's just okay with the lore of elden ring being his calling card lmao. It is pretty spectacular

[@feral7523]

@@ExtraVictory "Legendary" I'm afraid not, unless he finishes writing the great series as it's not like 20-30 years from now anyone is going to buy/pick-up he's incomplete series to read knowing it'll end up nowhere. So living legend(meh maybe), then after, not so legendary! indeed probably scorned for idleness!

[@ExtraVictory]

@@feral7523 I mean, even if there *was* some kind of unified book nerd consensus. declaring that GRRM is not a legend, it would still be absolutely irrelevant lol. Because book nerds don't decide these things anymore, the masses do. And the masses tend to think of the name GRRM when they think of a great writer. The sheer level of name recognition he has, just from the TV shows, & Elden ring alone. Is on a completely different level.

[@feral7523]

@@ExtraVictory Yup and it peaked 6years ago and is falling every year due in large to not completing he's Potential almost masterpiece! so again in 20-30years time and some parent is saying go ahead son read this great series I loved it back in the day and the kid is half way through and at the table says how he can't wait to see how this finish's and the Mom says well actually it doesn't! and that kid will probably go wtf and drop it and slowly no-one will bother with it as it goes nowhere at the end of the day so a pretty crap Potential legacy unless he finish's imo.

[@DibsEquipped]

Glad I wasn't the only one confused.

[@jxun4l3ht10]

On my first read I was very confused between the Stark siblings, Theon, Jon, who's the bastard and who's the hostage.

[@adammasek772]

HistoryMarche and BazBattles are some good battle channels

[@micahmcfadden8082]

Most confusing thing to me is in the first book chapter when robert arrives to winterfell they announce all the children except bran

[@tjosiahhaynes]

Historia Civilis uses the squares. I was just watching him before this

[@LailaMendes-vs3kq]

I have very bad memory to remember how I felt reading for 1st time, and also started reading after s1(last year of my high school) I'm re-reading again after years, and I have to agree about jaime and bran(read this chapter 2 weeks ago): is not very clear it's jaime bc bran doesn't know its him, even in coma when he is dreaming, he mentions jaime as "golden hair guy" or smth (i read in pt) Recently, one thing I notice is renly being more joyful and confident. Idk why, i always thought of him as a naive snob 😂 Well, feels good to read it again with a more mature mind, i get to notice some nuances I didn't before

[@jetsilveravenger]

I wish i could remember my thoughts and reactions the first time i read the books but too much time has passed and i've reread the books several times since. Plus I watched a couple seasons of the show that really muddy things up. I'd say i wouldn't recommend doing that but it's a bit late. There's people who were there right from the beginning of course but any way you slice it, 2002 was quite awhile ago.

[@ivello]

The most confusion i remember having when 1st reading the books was about the "day of his name" thing, i had never seen this expression anywhere and i straight up thought there was a day named Jon kkkkkk

[@Galvatronover]

I’m good at inferring things so I got it immediately

[@julioulloa5403]

Dude. I love grrm writing but A knight of the seven kingdoms is my favorite book of all time. When i need a cheer i read at least a hedge knight and im instantly better

[@jdwest34]

Thanks

[@praptijones7005]

How does everyone know it's Skagos Lord Manderly was talking about?

[@spencerkindra8822]

Because Davos says in his inner monologue that the place the mute guy, Wex Pyke, threw the knife at on the map is full of cannibals.

[@silverstorm3729]

Honestly I still am confused about the minor lords and their alliegances. It's something I've always wanted to go back and really analyze because the level of depth in whose betraying who is really cool, but then I always lose interest because I have no idea who any of these people are and I also don't really care. I wonder if George even does, or if it's just worldbuilding getting away from him again.

[@andrewwavington9025]

Kings and Generals is a dope page it has GOT battles as well

[@cdhill17]

I did not realize at first that Catelyn was killed at the end of the red wedding chapter

[@0kippeh]

i got confused by what tyene did to dorans hand lol

[@Jungkimhunts]

HOW COULD YOU HAVE NEVER READ DUNK AND EGG!!! I don’t care if it’s controversial, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, I want more Dunk and Egg books rather than Winds of Winter!!! 😂

[@pedrojorge1912]

GRRM has said in an interview that the hardest character for him to write was Bran, given it's a child POV. No wonder why his chapters are a bit confusing, specially the first ones.

[@WBRamsesIII]

Does anyone have any insight on 'fake out deaths' as the books were coming out? Example Arya "taking an ax to the head", Tyrion death rumors during Cersei chapters in feast, Davos death rumors. I read mostly knowing things so these fake outs did zero for me but I'm wondering if in real time these felt real

[@CiceroMagnus]

Funny and revealing

[@mrfoozy47]

Crazy that carmine hasn’t read Dunk and Egg, it’s extremely high quality, and also short,concise, and easy to follow compared to ASOIAF. Compared to George’s other stuff, Dunk and Egg reads like literal children’s novels, you can knock them out in an afternoon lol

[@OfficialRedTeamReview]

Because when I got into the series they weren't out yet, at least not completely. I normally don't go into spin-off books but the first story, The Hedge Knight, was released in a anthology book with other non-asoiaf stories. Unless you *knew* to look for it, it didn't exist because this was before the internet (1998) and asoiaf wasn't super popular in the late 90's early 2000s, Harry Potter was. I didn't get into the series until later on and the books I had were given to me by a friend. But you're correct that I could've taken them in the the last few years but i just haven't gotten around to it as the more important stories are the main ones.

[@jewsco]

@@OfficialRedTeamReview it took the long , and still waiting for winds of winter , gap between books that finally got me to read Dunk and Aegon . It’s well worth the read and as Preston says some of George’s best writing .

[@vitormattos5368]

2 fire 2 blood

[@alialmuhanna4938]

15:10 Are we to understand that you no longer believe that the Brave Companions are tied to the Martells ?

[@nicholsonfile]

Aint nobody knows what was happening with the Brave Companions, Jamie's hand, etc

[@cdhill17]

Apparently Littlefinger tells Sansa that lady Whent died

[@elinakeranen4499]

That's true, didn't she starve to death eating her own fingers

[@Mj_Jetson]

@@elinakeranen4499 wasn't that Donella Hornwood? Or am I misremembering? Littlefinger says he heard that Shella Whent is dead, but the ADwD appendix, she's listed as alive?

[@elinakeranen4499]

@@Mj_Jetson that is true, I mixed two things. Petyr talks about lady Whent's death but doesn't mention how she died.

[@cdhill17]

@@elinakeranen4499 No, that was Lady Hornwood

[@catlord760]

how is it that Carmine hasn't read the Dunk & Egg stories? He participates in these ASoIaF streams but hasn't read some of George's arguably best work?

[@josiahcmiller]

I’m surprised you’re surprised.

[@OfficialRedTeamReview]

@@josiahcmiller lol

[@aedrorwindrunner4172]

Something that confused me was why Arya didnt just reveal herself to Roose. It’s never said explicitly, but I guess she just gets bad vibes from him?

[@keirangrant1607]

How come Cersei doesnt have ladies in waiting? Thats a little odd. Is there anyway a queen would be allowed to be left alone like that? I guess she could say Jaime is her sworn sword. This makes me believe the rumors about the Dragon Knight and his sister may not have been wrong.

[@nogodsnomasters7669]

All of the Ghiscari names gets a bit confusing

[@j-rey-]

Fire and Blood 2: 2 Hot, 2 Bloody

[@Caramelo23606]

I did not understand A Feast for Crows because I doze off through the book

[@yhhkj529]

I still remember being mad at Carmine for being too much of an anti-SJW. now he's a hasanabi-head?!

[@bonbonvegabon]

The Dunk and Egg stories are so boring. I have no interest in those books or the new series coming to HBO. I want HBO to do Robert's rebellion. That is all.

[@manmanman2000]

For me the most confusing part was the whole Slaver's Bay plot. I probably got less than half of what was going on the first time reading.

[@marcschwartz549]

First?

[@vondas1480]

Ned is alive and well on Tarth

[@sexykevytyler]

The most confusing part for me is from Clash - the Tyrion/Cersei/Tommen/Rosby story. I've read it a couple of times but I don't understand it. I get what happened, I just can't figure our anyone's why.

[@SombraCheeks]

The entire Young Griff stuff I was confused, pulling in this entirely new storyline and not knowing anything about Blackfyres or Golden Company really... I was confused as to what was going on and why am i being presented with this information

[@brennanbarnes7628]

For me it's Brienne on her travels with Nimble Dick and confrontation with the Brave Companions, I just felt like I was missing something there. Also the teleporting barge on the Royne.

[@thehobowizard]

Same for Brienne!

[@scummyfish]

Same, had to check the wiki becuse I had forgotten who they were. Plus, I read ASOS in my native language and AFfC in english, and the names had changed in the translation.

[@robertmaybeth3434]

Brienne's a good character I guess since the only true knight in the 7 kingdoms is a woman (her) but her chapters just bring the books to a grinding halt. Nothing important happens during those chapters. I'd much rather read a littlefinger or Varys chapter and so would almost any reader. But that's when I knew GRR had run out of plot during books 1 through 3.

[@puttadonkonit3759]

that's interesting because i understand entirely when people criticize those Brienne chapters for being boring travelogues, but I didn't find them confusing... well, there is the intentionally open question of whether or not the Hound is dead. but other than that from what I remember she's just attempting to find Sansa and not getting much done

[@cerostymc]

@@robertmaybeth3434 "nothing important happens during those chapters". I don't want to start a fight, but lmao did we actually read the same book? There was plenty of of important stuff. Maybe it didn't feel as important to you because the Brienne chapters were more of a self-contained story and therefore didn't seem like they had that much of an influence on other plotlines. But I can assure you that Brienne's story is very important for the broader narrative as it explores the more civil side of the conflicts in Westeros and offers a different perspective from the typical standpoint of the lords and kings who think they're just moving figures on a board.

[@wyomingptt]

I was confused how even though the series seems to end after A Dance With Dragons, the storylines seem to hint at something more to come. I don't get it.

[@pedromenchik1961]

I was so confused about the whole thing with Tyrion and the Shrouded Lord in the Sorrows passing under the bridge twice…like I read it multiple times and still didn’t know what was going on

[@Jotari]

Same. Very little of what they talked about in the video confused me, but there's some later Dance of the Dragons stuff that just reaches my maximum capacity to keep track of the world that has me loosing interest.

[@kitkat6959]

I think that one is intentional

[@Jotari]

@@kitkat6959 Not so much that when people talk about the Shrouded Lord I'm like "Who? That's a character in the books?"

[@Kaknamenuss]

everybody is still confused about that lol

[@bonbonvegabon]

@@Jotari LOSING not loosing.

[@OfficialArthusamakh]

Aside from the 2000 named characters and not having a clue who every Badgaz mo balsak is in Slaver's bay, the part that confused me the most was Lysa's reveal of her murdering Jon Arryn on Littlefinger's orders. And I had watched seasons 1-4 like 3 times by the time I read the series. I was so drenched in that book that I had entirely forgotten that that had happened and set off the story. At first I was like "wait why would she kill Jon Snow" or "who the fuck was she married to"

[@sprounzit6487]

Yeah even on my read throughs I skip Dany's parts in Slavers Bay, idk wtfs going on and I don't really care

[@stelmaria-mx]

I didn't know what the fuck was going on during the Meereen stuff, only in the audiobook did I truly know what was happening

[@wingy200]

@@stelmaria-mx And all their masks changing, but no one knows what the fuck the masks mean. What the hell was the point? A Dance with Dragons is so much fun when it deals with the North and all their tomfuckery, but the Slaver's Bay stuff is god damned awful. The only good part was when Barristan carves up that pit fighter in the King Consort's chambers after going all gangster on Hizdahr. Otherwise, I'd rather read passage after passage about the texture and viscosity of the putrid yellow-brown water coming out of everyone's butthole than suffer anymore Meereen world building. Kill me.

[@desmondmyers]

Badgaz mo balsak 👌that was nice.

[@MadIvano]

Everytime they referred to The Shavepate or The Perfumed Senechal I couldn’t tell if they were the same guy or teo different people.

[@pedromenchik1961]

Original Reek, Ramsay as Reek, Theon as the new Reek…so confusing on the 1st read

[@Raktasdelespacio]

17:35 There's something endearing about Preston being so bummed when he didn't know exactly how many Blackfyre rebellions there had been.

[@scummyfish]

Carmine was talking about Kings and Generals when saying that the battle of the Whispering Wood and others were confusing, which is ironic given that Kings and Generals made videos about battles in ASOIAF (The Whispering Wood, the Green fork, the Blackwater and Aegon's Conquest.)

[@corbinskywalker]

GRRM PLANNED IT ALL

[@maxmercer1931]

This

[@matt_9112]

One might think if there was a plan, the series would be finished by now. I'd rather guess GRRM is just as confused as we are when trying to make sense of stuff like the Meerenese knot (without it being too straight forward, can't have that) or making sense of what really happened at the Tower of Joy.

[@maxmercer1931]

@@matt_9112 it should be interesting to see how Preston fleshes out what happened at the Tower of Joy. And if GRRM ever releases TWoW, compare the two. Depending, of course, if GRRM ever revisits the Tower of Joy

[@whaddup691]

And will finish none of it. Also I don’t think he planned any of it

[@Mj_Jetson]

For the longest time, I thought Salladhor Saan and Aurane Waters were the same person. And I don't mean Salla has a secret identity as Aurane or anything like that... I thought they were the exact same character with the exact same name. Whenever I read "Salladhor Saan", I thought "oh right - that's the name of the pirate dude." and I thought the same for Aurane. No idea why it took me so long to realize that they were two separate names.

[@snowpocalypse69]

This is like how I was with Moat Cailin and Greywater Watch, I would read either of them and be like oh yeah that's where the Reeds are from

[@thehobowizard]

Renly’s fucking ghost confused the shit out of me

[@Luuuna]

I couldn't remember the names of most of the minor characters, especially in Stannis's group - like I knew Davos, Mel, Shireen, Selyse, Stannis himself, and I knew there were two Florent blokes (couldn't tell them apart though), but beyond that? No idea Also I completey missed that the battle of Oxcross, the battle of Duskendale, and the battle of the Fords/ Stone Mill even happened - each time they were brought up, my brain went "I probably should know what they're talking about here, given the book isn't explaining... oh well!" and forget, and move on Oh, also the whole thing with Arya rescuing the prisoners at Harrenhal, and then it turns out they were never in danger in the first place - like, I know that's part of the whol brave companions thing, but it took me several re-reads to get that bit specifically

[@jones877]

GRRM should just plan out all the battles in medieval total war, and then plan out all the intrigues in ck2. Fastest way to finish writing the books

[@Vmac1394]

"And all of the men following Robb Stark died in a giant manure exposition."

[@allthe1]

What convinced me to buy Elden Ring specifically was the fact that GRRM contributed to the lore and I wasn't disapointed, especially in terms of confusion

[@MWMTEE]

And the names all sounding the same lol

[@SHARKVADERS]

PJ IS BACK FOMOS

[@meganadams7274]

Not confused so much to say, but I read the books just before Season 4 came out and despite Ser Barristan Selmy being insta-revealed to Dany like 2 years ago I still had no idea who Artisan Whitebeard was in the books and was totally shocked when they revealed it was him the whole time. I thought he was just an extra character and Selmy was going to turn up any moment

[@Ancor_Vantian]

If I remember correctly, one of the many things that confused was when I read Tywin was signing a pardon for Robb's wife's family. I was like "but they of all people? aren't they traitors to your eyes?" Good times.

[@JoniukasVader]

Back are we and

[@TumzFestivalYT]

Awarding someone ownership of Harrenhal is just a friendly, common phrase in Westeros that a lot of people use when saying their goodbyes to someone.

[@Longshanks1690]

Pretty much the entire Meereen plot in ADWD also not just confused me but flew me by. Idk about anyone else but for the first four books and most of ADWD, I can recall the events that happened in a general sense. But without looking it up, I cannot remember for the life of me things like the names of faction leaders or the events of that story. I remember every one of the other cities is outraged at her, no one knows who the harpy is, she’s being pressured to marry and reopen the pits and LocustGate. The same with Tyrion, there’s just so much needless padding in that book that I just do not remember off the top of my head when I remember the antler men from ACOK even though they’re not that relevant in the long term. And Jon usually gets joined in this category but I actually remember more of his story, not everything but more than Dany and Tyrion for sure. And because so much of Dany’s story is wrapped up in needing to understand the political subtleties and complicated nuances of life in Meereen, it makes it so much worse when it is all so tediously confusing and boring. I often found myself skimming those chapters more often than not, unless it was Dany thinking about her place in the world which was interesting. But the overall Meereen plot is one of the most needlessly complicated things in the series that to this day I don’t feel confident talking about as I’m sure I’ll get details wrong because of that lmao.

[@robertmaybeth3434]

All the Mereen chapters, plus Brienne's chapters, do seem like filler. And mostly an after-thought.

[@lovablesnowman]

It's because GRRM always intended to do the 5 year time skip after a Clash of Kings. It's why half the characters dissappear in A Feast for Crows.

[@_addison4772]

I’m still confused what is going on in Meereen, who, what side, locust… so confusing but I guess that’s part of the point it’s a mess

[@thelastbrickbender2139]

When watching season 1 for the first time, I completely missed Theon being a Greyjoy not just some guy in the stark household and Catelyn hating Jon

[@look4lec]

In D&E I didn't ever realize Dunk *may not have been* wasn't knighted. I argued with my brother about this. I still think Dunk was knighted by Ser Arlan of Pennytree and is just a goofy tall dude with impostor syndrome.

[@danieldiaz7065]

He calls himself a liar all the time. It’s pretty clear Arlan didn’t knight him. Dude also got super sick and died suddenly, he probably wasn’t thinking about knighting his squire

[@muesliman100]

He mostly calls himself dumb, not per se a liar though, right?

[@danieldiaz7065]

@@muesliman100 he does call himself dumb a lot, but here’s a quote from the hedge knight “He knew what it was like to want something so badly that you would tell a monstrous lie just to get near it.”

[@justdirt]

Having not seen the show, reading the first book, a lot was confusing. George does not hold your hand at all. Learning dozens of characters' names while jumping from pov to pov was a nightmare. The characters bring up so many events and drop names so often in the beginning. It's like being thrown into the deep end and having to learn to swim. By the time I understood the general geography and characters, it made a lot more sense. I listened to the books so I didn't have a map. It wasn't until I was halfway through SoS that I decided to look up a map. From then on, I would check the interactive map whenever I completed a handful of chapters or finished a book.

[@chriscueva1866]

The most confusing thing in any of the books for me was everything happening in Mereen during Dance. I was fucking lost on my first read.