Conscientiousness Vs. Unconscientiousness People | Jordan Peterson

Conscientiousness Vs. Unconscientiousness People | Jordan Peterson
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[@bwing411]

Jordan has taught me more about myself than the cumulative of educators throughout my youth.

[@daan1565]

What I am thinking about is the following: What should society do with people in the lowest 5% percentile in conscientiousness? These people are not disciplined, organized or motivated enough to work 40 hours a week. If poverty comes into the picture from not working, then substance abuse is often the result as well as, if the person is low in agreeableness too, a possibility of ending up in prison. The United States political economic system has decided not to support these people at all and their life ends up miserably. Here in Holland, as well as in other social democracies, the treatment of these people is less harsh and forgiving. You might say these are more empathetic, altruistic and compassionate societies, maybe even somewhat feminine societies. Philosophically, the question is always whether to help the poor or let them live in misery. One argument is that people low in conscientiousness did not choose to be born this way and as such should have the right to live in society with their basic needs met. The counterargument is that why would those expending 40 hours out of their week be drained mentally and or physically to help others who are not expending this energy? It is an interesting debate for sure. At least with helping the people low in conscientiousness financially the ones redistributing the money get the benefit that the social problems such as armed robbery, fraud, domestic abuse, homelessness, alcoholism, illicit substance abuse and overdoses, random shooting sprees, extreme polarization, racism, incarceration and suicide happen much less often. If I compare the Netherlands with Brazil and the United States this is what I can say. To belong to the upper 1% of wealthy individuals you need $12 million USD in America, whereas you only need 1 million euros in Holland. So rich people in America are much richer than in Holland, but this is probably at least partially caused by the lack of a welfare state that redistributes wealth and income from the productive members of society to the unproductive ones

[@humblecatpie4512]

The answer to your first question is nothing. Society should do nothing. Individuals, however, could help where, when, and in whatever manner they choose. Now my question for you is about your comment on a lack of welfare state. Are you talking about Holland? Because the US provides welfare in many ways.

[@daan1565]

@@humblecatpie4512 Here in Holland (which is a social democracy) unemployed people get a monthly stipend of 1000 euros to cover their rent and food expenses, with the only condition being that they actively search for work, apply to a certain amount of jobs per month, and accept a job when they can actually do it. AFAIK this does not exist in the US. I guess you are talking about food stamps in the US? I mean this might be a form of welfare but a very minor version of it.

[@humblecatpie4512]

@@daan1565 The US has unemployment pay as well with similar requirements, i.e., they must look for work. The US also has maternal, child, and medical welfare.

[@havenbastion]

Why should anyone be working 40 hrs when there's plenty of resources that we could be working 5 or 10? The problem is in the system, not individual minds.

[@daan1565]

@@havenbastion Yeah agree 100%

[@daan1565]

And why they dont teach this stuff in high school? We learn about useless atoms but not about how people function. What is more important than that? Nothing. You could wonder why Petersons lectures are so popular. It is because people were never taught this stuff! How ridiculous.

[@davidregi7571]

Atoms are more important

[@michaelangelo5783]

@@davidregi7571 To who? The 0.001% in PhD level research labs?

[@daan1565]

@@danielzimmerman3057 Teachers are not mathematicians either but at least kids get taught basic math. That's not an argument as to why we should not expect them to teach kids about psychology, even if it's just the basics.

[@daan1565]

@@danielzimmerman3057 Most teachers should go see a psychologist so incapable that they are

[@havenbastion]

Dogs are very much a special case because we've chosen them generation by generation with specific traits in mind. Nothing of the kind had happened with humans, so to understand dog psychology, first you have to understand human psychology in relation to dogs.

[@BirdDogey1]

Many conscientious men lose their jobs in their 50s to cheaper and younger workers.

[@noneofyourbuizness]

Sad seeing some men becoming homeless because of these reason. Working hard your whole life to be left like that ... Unfair society

[@suras8984]

@@noneofyourbuizness Wow I never heard of this or seen this where I live.

[@joshy0369]

Good stuff 👏 👍

[@caleuxx9108]

Hi, I would like to know, if an unconscientious person can be trained (raised to be) more consciencious. ?

[@nicholyse]

I am 1 in agreeableness, 4 in conscientiousness, 78 neuroticism… it is extremely difficult to stay motivated. Motivation wanes, anxiety settles in, and I have very little tolerance for 98% of people… maybe less. The only thing that has helped is developing self discipline, doing the things I don’t want to when I know they need to be done. I feel robotic most of the time, but at least it seems to make me more tolerable to those around me. I’d love to find another solution or some joy but that’s the only thing I’ve been able to discern. Best of luck

[@caleuxx9108]

@@nicholyse - That sounds hard. .... When I think about conscientiousness.... to me it seems like the peron just doesnt care.... I tend to see all the possible negative consequennces and to try to avoid them, do things in such a way as to minimize risk (for my life, at work for my klients, etc.), but many people around me juar dont seem to see the possible negative consequences, and/or dont trust me that they might occur... The problem with me, is that I care sometimes too much even about things that are not really my responsiblity... (as a kid my mom got schizofrenia and at age 12 I became responsible for things that should not have been my responsibility and I was punished for not taking care of things that no one ever told me to do).... I wonder if there is a causality in that?

[@jub7345]

bot voiced intro is so cringr i can hardly listen. Just start the vid with Jordan Petersen You'll get 10x more views

[@angeloreyes707]

Your videos are awesome bro.

[@havenbastion]

It's really nuts to talk about conscientious people as a group because caring and orderliness are entirely different drives.

[@lennart0hein]

Conscientiousness is NEGATIVELY associated with depression (see Kotov et al. 2010). Where does he get his data from?

[@ludwigs3509]

You took the frankenshot!!@@@

[@lisaschuster686]

Industriousness is associated with beavers!

[@sonicmaths8285]

for 1 milisecond I thought this is absurd, but after that I realised that this makes sense

[@Margatatials]

Also bees

[@stephiek88]

This is so bang on the mark.

[@caleuxx9108]

predisposition toward depression. Emotions of Guilt and Shame.....

[@dewainkoester1026]

Dogs are self-conscious.

[@olivergreen1520]

I have a genetic predisposition toward being lazy and irresponsible. I think it’s conscientious peoples responsibility to teach unconscious people how to be responsible.

[@Peachypie-xq4bo]

Such a unconscientious thing to say lol

[@olivergreen1520]

@@Peachypie-xq4bo I mean I am unconcientious after all

[@HaycravingHorse]

Please tell me this is a joke.

[@olivergreen1520]

@@HaycravingHorse not kidding

[@sonicmaths8285]

For 4:51, conscientiousness doesn't correlate with depression at all. There are even invertedly (= negatively) correlated). Conscientiousness in combination with unemployment correlates with depression, but only, because unemployment generally correlates with depression at lot.

[@Margatatials]

What? Are you saying non-conscientious people don't experience joblessness?

[@sonicmaths8285]

@@Margatatials No, I didn’t say that at all. Read again

[@daan1565]

@Sonic maths You're right. Peterson said it correctly. The creator of this video just put it wrong

[@EricATena]

So anyone can become conscientious in theory.

[@nicolasdupuis114]

I wish i knew how to.

[@chaoscore09]

Telephone sales he he

[@nathanielgirma8265]

lol

[@havenbastion]

"Fixing the system isn't a very effective means of coping", because it's hard? I can't speak for others but all my problems are in the system. Not trying to fix the system isn't an option because i can't get anywhere in a broken system. There's no place to get an effective start. What i'm really hearing is slave morality - take responsibility even if you didn't cause the problem; if things don't work out it is attributable at least in part to you not trying harder. Yeah, pull yourself up by your own bootstraps (which, incidentally, defies the laws of physics) even when you have no boots! No. Trying hard only correlates with success IF you're first lucky enough to get some non-interference.

[@namechange9470]

So your problems are other people’s fault? Every successful person just “had it easier”? Get a grip