Console Emulation Plugin(Slate VCC) VS Real Mixing Console(Soundcraft Sapphyre)

[@Polentaccio]

Appreciate your videos and your work. Another great example. It isn't that the console is that much better, it is just that it breathes better and is less smushed together. The Slate stuff sounds really good but the more it is layered the more it all competes for that same narrow space. The console just opens it up slightly to allow for more space. More fun to move faders too.

[@TwinCreekAudio]

Thank you. I felt that the console sounded more natural and open but the Slate VCC certainly doesn't sound bad. I have mixed several albums with VCC in the box with good results. I have moved more and more back to analog gear because, like you say, it's a lot of fun moving faders and having EQ on knobs instead of a mouse. The Sapphyre sounds pretty good too. Better than I expected when I first got it. I expected it to be open and wide but it has more heft and weight than I realized.

[@Polentaccio]

@@TwinCreekAudio It would be interesting next to see all the slate or other EQ plugins vs the eq on the board and any simple hardware compressors you have. Now that I have my Ramsa board up ( you helped me out on another thread) there is always the temptation to want more outboard expensive gear. If the console eq holds up vs the waves or slate emulations, it would be yet another win for the console and why they are still useful.

[@TwinCreekAudio]

@@Polentaccio that is a great idea! I am planning some further videos comparing console emulations but I didn't think about EQ. I will start working on how to make that happen as well. Thank you for the suggestion. I hope you are enjoying your Ramsa. Those are really solid well made consoles that sound great. The EQ is very useful and has a nice sound. I think you'll be happy with it for most purposes. Maybe a plug in for surgical EQ and Ramsa for more broad EQ.

[@bontempo1271]

'narrow space' is exactly what bothers me about plugins. They have a narrow centre image, and they cram everything centred, into that space. It's terrible in my opinion ! I think i went over this some years back, but i think maybe it is because mono in digital is absolute mono, not a splinter over, but when you send mono to an analogue stereo bus, you get some difference between channels and that can create some stereo information, so a seemingly wider centre image. And also, the way the lows and highs are handled on the analogue console is so much thicker and weighty. Sad that we still have this problem.

[@coffeehigh420]

it was obvious to me very quickly, Grady. The physical analog console produces a much larger space and headroom / dynamic overall sound. I always can tell when something has been mixed in the box. I'm guessing you can as well. Thats why I love my analog console and outboard gear and am NEVER getting rid of it. I use a hybrid set-up by the way like you do. Pro-Tools along with a Tascam 24 track studio mixing console. I love it! - I'm getting the same results you appear to be getting and the people I mix for really hear it and appreciate the sound! you just cannot get that from mixing and mastering through "the box" alone in my humble opinion :)

[@TwinCreekAudio]

It's was immediately obvious when I started using a hybrid setup that the headroom from a good analog console is much better than the typical DAW mix engine. The stereo spread and depth is much better on an analog console to my ears. To be fair, I started out mixing on analog consoles, first with analog tape and later digital tape, so it is a workflow that I'm used to and I have heard a lot of good work done with digital systems. I believe I can also hear when something hasn't been mixed in the analog domain but it's difficult to tell with some many ways records are made these days. Some that sound like a console could also be a summing mixer and plugins. I know people who swear by summing mixers. I'm like you in that I love using my analog console both for the sound and the workflow. I love the power of the DAW especially editing though I try not to time algin or grid everything. I tend to edit by ear and by hand always attempted to keep an honest natural sound but with that nice big sound of a professional record. The way I work with my analog gear and the mindset I have are what create work that I am proud of.

[@daddydanny5588]

interesting as always

[@TwinCreekAudio]

Thank you! I appreciate it.

[@thisbusinessofmusic1276]

I have an old Soundcraft Spirit Studio Auto 32 x 8. ( not the plastic one.) Ive leaned it up against the wall in my studio and use it as a bank of 8 preamps to feed my DAW and the other 24 tracks as a sort of Dangerous 2 buss type of mixer. When Im doing a mix, 24 outputs are fed into the soundcraft and the two track return is brought back into the daw for the two track mix. Voila! A Soundcraft mixer emulation solution. And....it sounds just like my soundcraft mixer! ;-)

[@TwinCreekAudio]

I had a 40 channel Spirit Live for a short time and it sounded great! I made couple of videos with it while I had it. Soundcraft consoles are great for preamps and Summing. I will use my Sapphyre like that or use it with outboard gear and plugins but the console has a sound by itself without anything. Sounds better than mixing digitally to me.

[@bontempo1271]

Well well !! I don't like what the console did in this example ! But the Topaz console in your other video sounded so much better than the plugin ! I think, the plugins can be nice and clear, sharp definition, but for some reason they create a really narrow centre image, and kind of cram the song into that narrow space. I really hate that. Also the positioning of elements in front to back depth, really changes between console and plugin, and once again the plugin is weak there. I would happily use a Topaz to sum. Great video, nice and straight forward. Thank you so much for doing this ! Anyone doing hardware vs software comparisons gets a sub from me :) Cheers !

[@TwinCreekAudio]

Thank you! I enjoy hybrid mixing and I get great results with either console. I think the weak link there is probably me and no fault of the gear. I agree about plugins making things sounds narrow and lacking depth. That the main difference I get with a console along with the nice analog saturation that helps things gel in a nice way. The Sapphyre has very 3D sound but it can be a little tricky as it's very clean otherwise. I'm planning more hybrid mixing videos and comparisons so hopefully they will turn out well. Thanks again! Glad to meet someone else who's into the hybrid mixing thing and analog gear.

[@bontempo1271]

@@TwinCreekAudio oh yes for sure, i'm not really happy with the state of most plugins so far ! And especially the problem with the narrow centre and depth. So i'm always hunting for plugins that come close. Hybrid is the way for now ! I saw you had alot of other good videos too, i'll be checking them out. Cheers !

[@MsLittleVillage]

Very interesting comparison. Even from my point of view, the difference is minimal. The slate emulation sounds really good, but the real console wins by a thin margin. It sounds a bit more airy and less compressed. At least that's how I feel about it. Both on the monitor and in the headphones. Thank you for this very interesting video dear Grady.

[@TwinCreekAudio]

I agree and I am hearing something similar when I listen to the finished video. I have used the Slate VCC emulations on many projects and they are very good. I do love the sound of my analog consoles though. The Sapphyre and the Topaz are great sounding analog consoles and as far as I know, no one has made an emulation(plugin) of either. This makes what I do in the studio have a unique sound that's not available in plugin form. I like being unique when it comes to art and music.

[@leetronix]

I very much enjoyed this and how you tried to demonstrate a comparison. There is a lot of variables to consider here, but in my humble experience the physical console wins. Sound control direct from analogue wave forms produce a better mix because the channel of sound is not inhibited as such is only moving voltage as opposed to a BUS of processing power and synthesis algorithms constantly working. In other words you hit the transients and sweet spots cleaner in my opinion. I do think some top end systems like the Yamaha Steinberg Nuage Consoles can reproduce amazing replication due to the sophisticated specs they operate at and very clever software. Some plugins can really help massively to also hit the sweet spots of the Mix and or Master. For Mastering digital consoles can do an outstanding job but I still feel for the mix down you cant beat a physical console. If space is a premium the Digital is a no brainier and can be a hell of a lot cheaper. So in my summary of your example I would give it an edge to the physical console even though I could easily tell the difference and hear/listen how & where the signal & frequencies on both consoles were stronger and weak throughout the sound, my reason is because I am listening through KZbin regardless of headphones etc and I appreciate it is still not going to be the same but it was a excellent example 👍 Just a suggestion, I would also move your monitors speakers further away or as far away as possible especially when Mastering so the sound does not over delay and filter out before you hear it unless you have other speakers elsewhere for signal processing on compression.

[@TwinCreekAudio]

I agree with you. When you're mixing in the box, some of the individual sound resolution gets lost since you are crunching bits of all the tracks down to a stereo mix with 2 tracks. In the analog domain, there are no bits to throw away. This really doesn't seem to be an issue in practice and as you've said, many plugin emulations sound very good. I really enjoy both the analog and digital world and bringing the 2 together in interesting and creative ways. I love the feel of a physical console and feel that I work faster this way. I definitely appreciate the convenience of digital systems. Recalling an ITB mix is far easier than recalling one done in the analog domain but with a camera in my pocket, it's not too hard to get an analog mix back either. I also agree that it takes more processing power to approach the way real analog gear sounds. There is truly some great digital gear out there that sounds amazing just as there are classic analog pieces that sound amazing.

[@Zazquatch1]

I am listening through JBL "ear buds" that costs about $18. The console sounded better imo.

[@TwinCreekAudio]

I like the way the console sounds the best too! Thanks for watching!