Contact position is the safe and efficient way to fly. - Malin Lobb

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I sat down with Malin Lobb to discuss paragliding safety and the trends in teaching pilots as well to clear up some misconceptions in our sport, flying with your hands at your shoulder level being one of them.
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#paragliding #parapente
‪@MalinLobb‬ ‪@Flyeoparapente‬

[@resistemptation4]

Gold. Your content continues to be extremely relevant. Thank you.

[@FlyingKarlis]

Thank you! Glad you find it usefull, there is more in production and I will be releasing them as they are made.

[@alberguti3937]

You mean "goldsmith".

[@kaseicyou1288]

thanks for the clarification. This had caused big debates among communities across the world, which i think partially was due to old pilots not willing to embrace new theories and partially misunderstanding of "hands up". Now i think we've all come to an agreement:)

[@FlyingKarlis]

Yeah, I realised that after publishing Bruce's video. This is why I went to see Malin and Theo, to clear up this topic and talk about lot's of others. Glad it's useful and started a conversation across communities.

[@alberguti3937]

Well, first of all, thank you for adressing the subject on Bruce Goldsmith advice. It was really weird and counteranything I learned and experience. Really left me very confused when I consulted about a BGD wing I bought, and receiving that advice. Still, in my opinion, and reading what Bruce wrote, to me and to others, he was very clear about no contact, and feeling the harness for signs of deflation. It would be really nice to hear Bruce clarifying finely the details. In the case of my BGD wing, or any other for this sake, it is very hard not to cause a deflection if you have the brakes on the contact zone. Specially when modern gliders have a shorter brake range than older ones. One inch is meaningfull. I wonder if it is part of the design of the trailing edge or what...I reread Bruce, watch this video and still scratch my head. I will quote Bruce: "Los pilotos han estado volando con el frenados durante años. Los instructores han estado enseñando a sus alumnos a volar "en contacto" con los parapentes. Estas lecciones deben ser desaprendidas. Vuela más seguro. Estabilidad de tono. El perfil de un parapente está diseñado para ser estable. Si no lo tocas, cuidará de ti, pero cuando pones los frenos, tu perfil ya no es estable. La aplicación del freno cambia radicalmente la estabilidad de cabeceo de tu vela, cambiándola de un ala estable a una inestable. Esta transformación tiene lugar cada vez que aplicas los frenos y mantienes los frenos en la posición de contacto." I see a real contradiction with Bruce wordes and this video. If you can deepen the details, many will be thankfull.

[@alex-in-the-sky]

Great series ! looking forward to see more and hopefully do a SIV with Flyeo sometime !

[@FlyingKarlis]

Thank you! Glad you enjoy it and find it useful! I will go to shadow Malin later this year, to improve my own SIV courses.

[@Hemersonr]

thanks for sharing this topic is my personal researsh since I observed the pitch instability phenomena for the first time 8 years ago... one colleague have concerns about his glider is constantly pitching/advancing due his excessive brake input (active piloting at time) after testing let the glider go (hand up) misteriosly the glider stop in a good position and fly better and stable... this pitch instability and active piloting are complementary subjects and I think that if you fly a modern glider you should observe if you are messig things due unnecessary breaking inputs. great video

[@FlyingKarlis]

I agree, this topic has not been talked enough in paragliding community. Over the last years, staying more on take-off's I have seen a lot of this. One of the reasons, I've decided to ask multiple experts to talk about it, as this is causing a lot of issues for a lot of pilots.

[@Hemersonr]

@@FlyingKarlis I agree and the worst thing is that pilots didn't realize that they are producing the instability themselves

[@benjienys3543]

With no doubt! He intended by ' no brakes ', no hands so down! (until shloulders sometimes!) , like we used to do in near past😅( yes it was so normal to fly all the time hands near shoulders😅) So.. that doesn't mean fly with no brake at all😊 That' clearly said at 1:53

[@PhilippeLarcher]

He said 10% which is not that much

[@markmcgoveran6811]

It seems pretty simple to me mathematically the dead people have sent their ghosts. They both had on a lot of break trying to maintain some kind of control there looking for a feeling that just wasn't there that much break and then they turn loose of one side. This additional thrust shoved one side forward hard and spiral down into the ground hard. I believe you should fly trim speed as much as you can it's specially if you're new and leave your hands up as much as you can even if it's too much because it's flying as fast as it can then stand up in your harness make your glide a little steeper. You'll get over that pretty easily and your nose will be tip down you'll have extra attention on the lines and you're flying in the trim position or your hands all the way up. If you hit a wind gradient the parasitic drag will drop the nose will be tipped down you have extra tension on the line and you'll have less of a loss of critical height. I have absolutely no problem with standing up early and I might even have a pair of bell bottom pants with velcro on him so when it's time to land I open up some drag.

[@GeorgieWorgiey]

The rush 6 seems to be really responsive to this concept. That if you are on the risers steering the reflex is really good. But it swings forward a bit before the reflex stops it and you feel very vulnerable beings hands up with the wing forward. But to go to breaks you have to take it through a dead zone for a second where you remove the reflex. What’s the best way to work it?

[@yetiDHrider]

Amazing video, thanks a lot! Can you please explain me briefly the late catch that Malin was talking about? Is it better to catch early or later?

[@FlyingKarlis]

It is defiantly better to catch it late, there are several reasons why catching early can cause more problems then solve.

[@alberguti3937]

Maybe a video with the fine details would be helpfull.

[@PhilippeLarcher]

The thumbnail still says hands up 😬

[@PhilippeLarcher]

I had accidental stalls 2 days in a row from exactly what he describes

[@FlyingKarlis]

Time for some active piloting training, wouldn't you agree?

[@PhilippeLarcher]

@@FlyingKarlis that was last year. I just did 60 stalls and I'm not done

[@markmcgoveran6811]

I'm not that worried about a Cascade I just want to be sure I put my hands up and let the wing do the duties of the mathematician decided it would do and try not to get gift-wrapped. What's the most maneuvers you ever heard of a glider going through burning off energy in a Cascade?

[@markmcgoveran6811]

What exactly would the name of the position be with my brake handles stowed, or in the same level as they would be if they were Stowed? I thought that was the hands-up position? Now I find out that the touchpoint is called hands up.

[@AvengerIl]

Seems knowing wether your wing has some level of reflex in it is very important, does it suffice to check the manual ... I've seen wings such as Mentor 7 being listed (unreliable source) as having semi reflex, however manual or website does not corroborate this

[@FlyingKarlis]

It's not that the reflex in the wing design creates this, it's that the wings are made to fly at trim or accelerated and there is a lot less line drag than it use to be. By adding small amount of brake on any modern free flight wing, you will create a lot more pitch instability. You should definitely let your Mentor 7 fly more, without constant brake input. Still of course use active piloting as needed, but no more constant brake inputs needed.

[@AvengerIl]

Interesting.. so lets say small deflection that destroys reflex profile, lets call it 10pct brake is lesspitch stable..... How about 20 or 30pct break is that then a more stable configuration in rough air.. i think im confusing things here.. only 50pct collapse o ever had (there were at least 4pilots that day with same experience) i felt nothing, just half the wing dissapeared and then reinslated.. that experience wants me to put a fair bit of pressure on brakes in rough air, but according to this, theres a zone where brake pressure does the opposite to what i intend.. or is this in relation to stalls only?

[@FlyingKarlis]

To avoid collapses you have to actively control the wing, which means exactly as much brake input as needed for the situation you find your self in. Sometimes that is 30% sometimes that will be a lot more, but straight after you go back to contact position, instead of that little bit of brake pressure which is roughly the 10% input. Dose this answer your question?

[@AvengerIl]

@@FlyingKarlis thank! Yes thinking more and more.. the message is "binary sharp inputs when required"... Impossible to summise but think. All your videos are helping a lot of people .

[@markmcgoveran6811]

One interesting thing for my calculations that no pilot seems to mention. If you were flying along with the brakes on 50% and all of the sudden you take the brakes off completely raise your hands up. You get a thrust. I have seen two or three people who were flying close to the ground around 50% on the brakes and they let up with one hand. They get a thrust on that side and they go into a spiral dive and hit the ground hard. I saw a bunch of cross-country people with their brakes handles stowed. I'm too poor to be in this sport epsilon 9 in a school that I could forward in a package deal. The epsilon 9 manufacturers states that the wing will fly better in turbulent air With your hands up. I cried tears of joy when I read this. If I just put my hands, and weight shift, no matter what demon in the sky grabs me all I have to do is have faith in that engineer over there at the advance company that figure this out and not try to outguess him by using the brakes and committing a pilot error. I know you guys fly those high-performance wings but do all these ideas apply all the way down to different wings?

[@FlyingKarlis]

Mark, reading your comment I'm a bit worried, what you describing about the 50% theory, this is common knowledge in paragliding. I think you would benefit from some formal training. Just letting the wing fly and weight shifting will be the right thing to do in some cases and completely the wrong thing to do in other cases. There are very few simple rules in wing control, most of the things require exactly the right input at the exactly right moment.

[@markmcgoveran6811]

@@FlyingKarlis I can only go by what the manufacturer advanced says about the epsilon 9. If you will just put your hands up this Wing will fly better in turbulence then you can fly it in turbulence. Let's take this statement as an absolute fact in my case. I don't know if it's an absolute fact in your case cuz you got a big mountain of talent. That would be a case of you having something I don't have and it would be Insanity to expect you to fly along with your hands up gritting your teeth and taking your medicine. I am going to school I am following all the rules I'm doing whatever they tell me I am not going to leave with my wing, until I have my license and I am perfectly legal to fly it. I have things that I benefit from that I did while you were getting experience flying a wing and I'm going to use them all to learn how to do this. What did you know when you made your first landing?

[@markmcgoveran6811]

@@FlyingKarlis I'm not squeamish at all. I looked a lot of gruesome videos and I read a lot of gruesome stories and I seen a lot of gruesome analysis of people that turned up dead from this hobby. I have one simple rule that I will always follow always put your harness all the way on or take your harness all the way. Do not buckle snap or put anything about a harness on you do every single thing to take it off,or put on. People like yourself a load of experience don't think this is a rule worthy of repeating every morning when you get out of bed while you're brushing your teeth and they don't think it's a rule worth enforcing and screaming at everybody around them like they're an idiot for even thinking they should have their leg clips unhooked. This is a case of a Captain obvious just shut up, we know that..... What do you mean that my friend Tim did it to himself when he fell from the sky without his leg straps hooked? Most of the people in paragliding seem kind of slow. For me there are two types of Caravats. There are two types of front collapses. Major and minor. A wing with a minor problem, can be flown straight. If it will fly straight you can land it. No matter what happens if it will fly straight you can land it. That makes it a minor problem. If you were less than three hundred feet off the ground and you had some carsvette on one wing tip and you could fly it straight that's where you need to do fly it all the way to the ground. If you have a major problem it will turn hard to one side and spiral into the ground real hard and it won't take very long to lock into that spiral. In this case it's worth a real hard brake application, on the side that is flying so if you can't get it to fly straight at least it isn't spiraling tight and you can throw the reserve without winding both parachutes together in a ball and hitting the ground right in front of them and 60 or 80 mi an hour. I stand on my seven years of electrical engineering training when I say absolutely beyond the shadow of a doubt the subject-matter suggest major and minor associated with these two states can fly straight with this problem is minor. Can't fly straight with this problem is major. Will of course Mark everyone knows that it's like buckling your legs straps.

[@markmcgoveran6811]

@@FlyingKarlis you know it's interesting you seem to think I should bet my life on some instructor and not outside source anything. I know at least two of the people in that hit the ground hard had instructors and the instructors knew all about turning lose to them brakes on one side not the other spiraling into the ground. Either the instructor failed to tell him or the instructor never intended to tell them. My instructor says he doesn't like students watching videos because they show extreme terrible things and scare people away.

[@Florian24]

audio is not good and Karlis is in the right speaker and guest is in the left speaker

[@FlyingKarlis]

Hey Flo, I just noticed it as well, my mistake on sterio channels, I'll make sure I tripple check this for the next videos, I'm still getting used to this audio part of video making, at least the sound quality seems to me, that it is a lot better, no?

[@Florian24]

@@FlyingKarlis you need rode wireless go or DJI mic for interviews

[@FlyingKarlis]

I actually have bought wifi mic's and have used it for these interviews, I just have not marked which of the mics record for which channel, this is why the audio can be reversed, I can fix it during post production very easily, for this video I've missed it. Unfortunately KZbin dose not offer to swap the audio files after the video has been uploaded.

[@mariopolzgutter1246]

I really wish there was a simple explanation. too much theory, not enough hard facts

[@FlyingKarlis]

What do you mean, not enough hard facts?

[@mariopolzgutter1246]

@@FlyingKarlis What i mean is a clear explanation that in wich curcumstances you have to stay in contact, in wich you have to release and so on. For example when i am circling in a thermal, or when i cross a valley...

[@stevereed7249]

So why do manuals still suggest 20 cm brake for min sink?

[@PhilippeLarcher]

​@@stevereed7249which manual

[@PhilippeLarcher]

​@@mariopolzgutter1246that's not fact that's prescription.