CONTRAVERSE HOLD [Destiny 2] Is This Warlock Exotic Bugged!?

In this video we'll be talking a look at the Warlock Exotic Gloves, Contraverse Hold in Destiny 2's Season of the Wish. At one point these were a very highly regarded Voidwalker exotic, but it seems that they did not age very gracefully. My testing and thoughts lay within! Enjoy! 🍻

[@brennany]

I have (and still do) contraverse+voidwalker in most difficult solo content. These changes happened in 7.3.0, or start of season of the wish. Demolitionist (and most other similar grenade and melee chunk regain perks) were all nerfed. Contraverse was caught up in the nerf because contraverse regen works by giving +2000% of base grenade regen rate for 1.75s, and in 7.3.0, the base grenade regen rate was nerfed for "long-cooldown-tier" abilities (vortex grenade is in this tier). That aside, I still think contraverse is the strongest exotic for feed the void vortex grenade builds in very challenging content where you cannot rely on an onslaught of trash ads for grenade regen. But the other exotic options are closer than they used to be which is still healthy for the sandbox. The arguments you pose against it are comparing feed the void + contraverse against devour and child, which is not really an argument against since they will always be run in pairs--it's just a question of which one of the three you're willing to give up and frankly all three all similar in potency which is how the sandbox should be. It really is an argument of whether it's worth sacrificing child of the old gods for feed the void since you're never going to give up devour with the new changes...which then is really an argument of briarbinds versus contraverse as an exotic pairing if you're not looking at things in a vacuum...possibly nothing manacles can join the fray if you love scatter grenades. Nezarec and verity are other excellent options but they shine brighter on other subclasses IMO.

[@IronworkerGaming]

I appreciate the intel, and your additional insight regarding the exotic! I'll pin this comment for anyone who may benefit from your viewpoint! 👍🍻

[@RikiazGaming]

This shouldn't be the case though. Nothing else that affects Base Ability Regen was affected, only flat percent returns, like Demolitionist and Devour, so this must have been either an unintended change, or a targeted nerf to Contraverse Hold that was missed in the patch notes.

[@julioforessi1336]

I really despise what Bungie did in that update. They essentially nerfed like 80% of ability based builds, which also happened to be not meta. Yet Sunbracers which already was a top choice for us warlocks became even more dominant because it does not get affected by the nerf in any direct manner. It's like they really went ahead and tried to figure out the best way not to deal with the problems that they actually wanted to solve as per what those patch notes specified. Like, in what world were kickstart mods anywhere near strong that they had to nerf them to the point that devour gives you about the same grenade energy as having 3 copies of that mod with 3 armor charges, they truly are as moronic as they get.

[@julioforessi1336]

@@RikiazGaming It could also be the case that for some reason the contraverse benefits were defined as flat percentages distributed in incredibly small amounts for the entire duration of the buff that would add up to the total amount of energy refund that we usually saw, perhaps that was part of the solution that they found to the exotic providing random returns back then to where it was before season of the wish. Though it is never unlikely for Bungie to just stealth-nerf stuff even if they are not really the meta because why not. In any case I really hope it is a bug because running Briarbinds will never be as useful as pre Wish Contraverse Holds in harder content

[@RikiazGaming]

@@julioforessi1336 That could be. That would mean that the community research is wrong and Contraverse hasn't been using a Base Ability Regen effect at all since it was normalized.

[@colemanmilligan9262]

As a warlock who was born to nova and forced to well. I sincerely hope my favorite exotic to this day is bugged and not intentionally nerfed. Great vid.

[@IronworkerGaming]

Thank you very much man! "Born to Nova, forced to Well" is a saying that I feel right down to my core! 👍🍻

[@andrewgomez1584]

Indeed

[@antiimperialista5764]

Ireally hope they nerf well to the ground, this promotes bad gameplay specially in harder content. People just want to run 3 phoenix protocols and just stand there shooting polaris for the rest of the GM.

[@MrB1gPants]

Promotes bad gameplay? There really isnt another subclass viable or consistent enough to use for warlock on endgame content besides Solar. Meanwhile, Hunter and Titan both have at least 3 out of 4 subclasses that can be used for end-game content.

[@NihilisticTings]

Put a comma after well

[@shizounu2480]

I am fairly sure this "nerf" happened at the same time as the nerf to the ability energy gain nerf from kickstart mods happened. I remember seeing several posts on reddit regarding it then and feeling it that day. It seems whatever nerf affected those mods affected Contraverse Hold as well

[@IronworkerGaming]

Ohhhh!!! I never even considered that the Kickstart change could have an effect, but it certainly could have! 🍻👍

[@jroland94]

bungie: i sleep

[@MrFstrympl]

Not only the recharge rate but also the dmg. Esoteric made a video about the vortex grenades doing much less dmg, it was included in Bungie's list of known issues and after a while it disappeared. The grenades received a buff, yes, but the vortex is still doing less dmg than it used to before witch Queen.

[@TheMax107]

They still need to revert this change is just limited good builds and made them bad and now they're almost useless or completely powercrept

[@peterbraudt7894]

Just like grenade charging pausing super regen. Void warlock is just 💩​ on lol @MrFstrympl

[@EricRosin]

Contraverse is impacted by the type of nade you use same change that happened to demo and other ability regen perks. With magnetic for handheld super nova it goes much higher than vortex nade, also REAL devour vs fake devour seems to have different regen times as well.

[@IronworkerGaming]

Indeed. I tested several different grenades and there definitely are variances in both cases. The Magnetic HHSN did seem to get the best rate of return at about a 32 percent total regen improvement. I just decided to roll with the Vortex as probably the most popular pick, and I didn't want the video to balloon out of control. 😂 Perhaps a full testing rundown it due in the future. 👍👍

[@mistermaclele614]

I have used contraverse for so long and didnt even really notice that big drop in returns. Also didnt know about those feed the void changes... good thing I enjoy build crafting! Great video as always.

[@IronworkerGaming]

Thanks a lot man, and I'm in the same boat! I was a bit taken aback when I saw how much less grenade energy was being returned. 👍🍻

[@henram36]

Well, poop. Contraverse has been an integral part of my voidlock build, like, forever. I thought something felt a little "off" when I'd reach for a 'nade and it was still charging, even after destroying multiple enemies.

[@IronworkerGaming]

I was pretty sad to see it's regen being so limited now. At least Feed the Void got a buff and can be leaned on for grenade focused builds.👍👍

[@j8000]

I can't emphasize enough how much I appreciate testing "givens" like if cooldowns in the menus match reality.

[@IronworkerGaming]

Glad to hear it! It's an extra step, but I've been burned before by the provided info not being 100% accurate. Always best to double check as far as I'm concerned. 👍👍

[@J.Starkweather]

Aw man. I felt something was off. Glad you could shed some purple light on this. I honestly think much of the issue here is Bungie's unwillingness to significantly change Chaos Accelerant. I've been metaphorically kicking the door trying to get some attention on the matter but being just one voice in a sea of complaints I don't think anything will happen.

[@IronworkerGaming]

Yesss!! I really wish Bungie would consider taking a second look at Chaos Accelerant. Touch of Flame and Touch of Thunder can have some really profound effects on their respective grenades, while our charged Void grenades feel pretty...mehhh...in comparison. 👍🍻

[@RurouniKalainGaming]

Thanks for all the info, great to see and helps me out!

[@IronworkerGaming]

You're very welcome! I appreciate you taking the time to check out the video! 👍🍻

[@supers0n1cb00m]

You are hands down the best tester for destiny things thanks for the amazing content!

[@IronworkerGaming]

I really appreciate that! 😁🍻

[@LimySilver2]

Verity has been my goto for void for a good while now. I waited for so long to have the perfect weapon for a verity void build and when the gun finaly dropped with demo+tricorn it was all i needed

[@Golet234-2]

Seeing how bungie not only butchered but dismembered Young Ahamkara's spine in front of it's wife and kids, i wouldn't be surprised if this was intentional

[@bakupcpu]

So I'm not the only one who noticed this.. ok good. Thanks for sharing... and yeah contreverse went right back in the vault.

[@thestudentsofscience2660]

Thanks for the video Ironworker. Love your videos bigman.

[@IronworkerGaming]

I really appreciate the support, and thanks for taking the time to check out another one! 😁🍻

[@ivan_domangaming9359]

It definitely feel way weaker then before, I remember getting the grenade immediately after throwing to a group of enemies

[@IronworkerGaming]

Right!? I loved the days when Contraverse allowed you to almost constantly pass out grenades! 😁🍻

[@mun123keet]

As long as you are running Feed the Void, Contraverse is still extremely strong. The buff to Feed the Void somewhat offsets this nerf to Contraverse, especially if you are constantly chaining kills.

[@zephyr8857]

Plus if you’re procing volatile rounds and a demolitionist weapon, you still get your grenades back VERY fast while chaining those kills

[@BearlyBearrr]

I love these gauntlets. They have come in clutch so many times with devour

[@redturner2325]

One of my all time faves! Such a shame haha. Thanks for the video though, really appreciate your breakdowns!

[@Francesco72221]

I know exactly when this bug/nerf happened, i used to main voidwalker for like 8 months up until the armor mods changes on lightfall, when that went out the gloves went from giving you an almost guaranteed extra grenade now you get basically half, if you are lucky or you tag a boss it could give you around 70%, but now it isnt even that good and its just sad

[@dontme6996]

It was honestly the best voidlock exotic up until the massive rework to ability recharge rate in 7.3.0 regarding armor and weapon mods. Now, I would reserve it exclusively for extremely high end content and days when vanguard ops has Grenadier

[@Stereo-hb2lo]

As a nezarecs sin enjoyer since day 1, im happy my exotic got some regonition

[@IronworkerGaming]

It's always been my go-to Voidwalker option! Although, Verity's Brow has been pretty spicy as of late with all that grenade energy being refunded by Feed the Void! 👍👍

[@manuelvalerin8914]

I felt a pang of loss when I heard you say to let the controverse hold go. But you are correct, it has lost its benefit. I use Nezeracs Sin now every time I use void. Love your work, brother. Thank you

[@IronworkerGaming]

It is sad to see. I generally do run Nezerac's for most Void loadouts, but I used to really like Contraverse's ability to chain tons of grenades.🍻👍

[@shank8120]

In 7.3.0, they sneakily reworked how everything in the game that gives a % of an ability works. Everything from demo to ionic traces to shinobus vow. Ability regen is scaled by ability base cooldown. If a grenade has a 1:12 base cooldown, it will receive full effects from demo (10% grenade energy from a primary). If a grenade has a 2:32 base cooldown, it’ll only receive about half of the effects of demo(about 5% grenade energy from the same primary). They did this in order to “prevent abilities with long cooldowns to have more uptime than intended”. In reality, this didn’t really change the effectiveness of meta builds since they mostly rely on full ability recharges/refunds. It just made it almost impossible to make powerful off meta builds since there are 0 ways to truly fix abilities that have low uptime. Fully building completely into regenning 1 ability still won’t give it decent uptime now.

[@IronworkerGaming]

Absolutely! A few other people had mentioned this so I went back to reread the rework, and that definitely seems to be the underlying issue. I can understand what Bungie was aiming to do...even though I don't much like it 😂, but it's kind of a bummer that Contraverse got swept up in these changes as well. It would be nice if Bungie could somehow break it free from the percentage based return and get it's overall performance back up around where it use to be. 👍👍

[@danrspen]

“Controverse Hold now also makes your grenades overcharged without having to charge them” 🙏

[@IronworkerGaming]

That would be an excellent rework! 👍👍

[@patsonical]

I'd rather have something that works with the overcharge mechanic instead of bypassing it. I love its power fantasy of overcharging nades with void light

[@Ajay-bj6pg]

​@@patsonicalIt was cool at first but honestly bungie killed that fantasy when they remove the extra damage grenades would do when they were charged and when they introduced the "Touch of" aspects. Clearly those aspects were better than Chaos accelerant since you didnt have to charge your grenade to get the same strong benefits. I rather they just rework chaos accelerant to work just like the "Touch of" aspects, give Contraverse hold a buff so that it either gives you damage resist or void overshield on grenade hits or kills, and for them to return the eat your grenade animation to get devour and put it on feed the void.

[@jameswulfgang154]

I really really want this exotic to get a rework pass to make it just give you "Chaos Accelerant" as it's default perk so you can slot it out of your Aspects and Run Devour + Void Baby as well so you can essentially have all 3 at once. Better grenade Regen with Devour + Void Baby + Controverse's refund. Oh, so spicy.

[@IronworkerGaming]

I think that would be a perfect rework for these! 👍👍

[@MrRemi1992]

Things to note that he left out is most players run grenade kickstart with this along with the mod firepower. Then on the boots you run innervation. This is important because if you run the aspects that create an orb of power/void breach on a void ability kill you drop two orbs of power. With this setup most situations you'll have x3 armor charges so as soon as you throw the grenade you get roughly 30% back, then after your target is hit you get an additional 25-45% back depending on if it double proc'd. Then you pick up the two orbs created each giving you 10% additional grenade cool down. All while devour is proc'd so every kill is giving you grenade energy. Contraverse is still the king for throw grenade kill 1-3 ads and your grenade is back. Had to be said because nezerac Regen is slower because it gives energy for everything including super, briarbinds puts you in danger, secant locks you to one spot and in endgame without well that's death, nothing manacles are good but regular scatter grenades do damage faster than the tracking ones but they are also a decent pick.

[@IronworkerGaming]

I definitely appreciate the input, but do you really think you need Contraverse in the equation along with the other highlighted mod selections? They're doing a good bit to return grenade energy already, and especially in an add clearing situation, given the potency of Feed The Void's energy returns, that grenade should be back up in a matter of seconds regardless. 👍👍

[@MrRemi1992]

@@IronworkerGaming yes you'll get your grenade back quickly either way I was just saying if players were feeling their build was gutted they can add these mods for that instant grenade return so they can maximize the damage resist while charging.

[@IronworkerGaming]

@@MrRemi1992 makes sense to me. 👍👍

[@scardra9308]

Before the nerf, Contraverse did proc with any grenade hit (didn't have CD) and returned between 1-4 sec randomly of the grenade CD per hit, now it always gives 1.75 sec of the grenade regen per hit and has a 4 sec CD on the same enemy. The good thing is that CD is independant per enemy, if you hit 4 enemies, you get like 90% of the grenade back in a instant. So it's now an ad clear exotic, good for groups of ads, not for boss damage.

[@IronworkerGaming]

I just double checked this a few times and doesn't seem to be working as you stated. Even when a single grenade hit multiple targets I wasn't seeing any additional grenade energy returned. Perhaps do you have it paired with Feed the Void and getting the additional grenade energy from Devour?👍👍

[@inceneration]

@@IronworkerGaming he is talking about the Tick dmg that happens at the start and the end. If you have multipler enemies in the grenade the tick dmg is independant from the enemies it hit. So if you hit an enemy 1 sec before another the other enemy wont have the 4 sec cd on it before it is registered as a hit on it. So you can in theory hit 5 Champs And get grenade energy back from all 5 champs at the same time. Or over a duration of the grenades spand of tick dmg.

[@IronworkerGaming]

Ahhhh, i see! 👍👍

[@aaronduran3506]

@@inceneration i just tested this out: I hit Carl with vortex grenade getting double proc, Killed 3 redbars with the initial blast, and then got the dogs to walk into the grenade in the middle of its duration, still clocked the grenade at 40 secs with only Contraverse

[@tanksin5726]

the nerf to them was ages ago lol, pretty sure it happened just before one of the arc or solar class revamps because they said abilities were too spammy and then proceded to make the new light builds even more spammy

[@IronworkerGaming]

After doing some additional digging, it appears to be the 7.3.0 Season of the Wish ability regeneration rework that is the culprit here. 👍👍

[@user-Xx0xxxxx]

So, basically in regards to the nerf, around 3 months ago now there was a rework to how ability recharge works, and after it some stuff like contraverse works off of base ability regen rate instead of your current ability regen rate, meaning it doesn't scale with discipline like it used to, meaning it provides less benefit at higher ability tiers.

[@IronworkerGaming]

I definitely should have put one and one together here.😅 Admittedly, I got too fixated on Contraverse not preforming as well as it used to and didn't consider big picture issue of the ability regen changes coming into play. I appreciate the heads up and it's always great to hear from you! 😁🍻

[@prstechnic1774]

I used those for my entire day 1 vow clear. They carried hard. Sad to see how bad they are now.

[@minghoe-zv9ph]

Great work thank-you

[@IronworkerGaming]

You're very welcome and thanks for checking out the video!🍻👍

[@stephbenson7340]

It always felt like a lot of commitment to put in for a little bit of reliable grenade recovery, even before the bug/nerf, and at least right now, Briarbinds > Contraverse for me. But I'm also looking to take Nezarec's Sin out for a spin again, especially with some real good void weapons that have come out lately. Optative can be crafted with enhanced Demolitionist and Wellspring, for example.

[@MrWrighthw]

I've thought those gloves were not performing as well, but with void out of the artifact this past long season, I rarely use void at all. When I do, I've been enjoying the brierbinds game play, as it feels very strong.

[@IronworkerGaming]

Briarbinds have been great! They are a really good exotic, and I love how it changes up the general gameplay! 😁🍻

[@superman15922]

Yeah Contraverse have been like that for a while sadly, I'll just be using Nezarec on Void, since it just buffs everything all around.

[@toquette_]

maybe it's just me who loves to throw it to a bunch of ads (for volatile and that one piece that blows enemies when killed with ability) rather than singular target (not to mention the SUCC from vortex nades), so i didn't really pay any attention to the amount of nade energy and i still feels that it refunds a lot of energy, thanks for bringing this up!

[@toquette_]

oh nevermind, might be because of Feed the Void haha

[@freakinschweeet]

They were bugged for damage soon after WQ release. I'm still not convinced they were entirely fixed after that. I think people just overlooked Contraverse and allowed some subtle stealth nerfs to compound, with 7.3.0 taking the blame. Just a theory, no evidence at all to support this. It's a gut feeling that probably stems from my distrust of Bungie and their fun police.

[@thearchonprime6257]

damn… I used to love contraverse sucks to see it got absolutely nuked

[@IronworkerGaming]

I was pretty sad as well seeing how much less grenade energy the Charged Vortex was refunding. 👍👍

[@Creym464]

It is a type of pve exotic still viable like old time partner in crime Idc if got nerf and have to use other exotic Its just a go to exotic to solo legend or master nigthfall with friend or randoms Its simple you dont need to proc anything other than hold grenade then throw It just like briar Good on low difficulty or hero nightfall but it hardson higher end contents bcs to full use ,you need to get close to enemy to get the child of old god and i just have 5-6 resilience since all warlock have high discipline and recovery In contraverse hold ,change stat to high recovery and resilience since i got armour mod to boost grenade by orbs

[@Creym464]

And besides we have good pairing with weapon 3.0 ( weapon pair with subclass 3.0) Just roll with repulsor or demolition And beside 2 days later we got them both with damage perk on brave arsenal (pseudo grenade charge = light , meele charge = darkness)

[@gamerprodigy107]

I have been playing alpt of warlock lately trying to get all 3 classes ready for into the light and more importantly FINAL SHAPE. Please give verity's brow a try. 100% bonus damage at 5 stacks, grenade regen help and you greatly increase the regen of allies when you throw your grenade. They are awesome. Combine them with chaos accelerant and you are throw grenades that hit like mini vortex nova bombs. Also they arent void specific so you can try them on other classes too.

[@IronworkerGaming]

Verity's Brow is quite strong on Void currently with the amount of grenade energy coming back from Feed the Void! While I've always been a big Nezarec's Sin advocate, Verity's it rivaling it for my favorite exotic on Voidwalker as of late! 😁👍

[@x9x9x9x9x9]

I swapped from contraverse to nothing manacles a couple of seasons ago and still like the build but with nothing on the artifact for void its definitely taken a backseat, same with my arc builds. But Contraverse should be updated to where you dont have to hold to charge.

[@IronworkerGaming]

That would be a nice change! I'd like to see things go one step further and allow Contraverse to access the Chaos Accelerant benefits intrinsically. That may be asking a little much, but I'm not overly impressed with the Chaos Accelerant as a whole so I don't think it would be game-breakingly strong. 😁🍻

[@ZRAGE6]

Bro, I was literally thinking this the other day

[@yourbrojohno]

I think this is from the nerf to percentage based gains to high cooldown abilities. It's why scatter nades are all you see on void.

[@IronworkerGaming]

I believe that you are correct. It never dawned on me that Contraverse would have got caught up in those changes, but with it energy return working off of boosted cooldown percentages, it makes sense. 👍👍

[@seangorton9654]

Contraverse hold is a rare exotic that gets MUCH better when the enemies are stronger (gms, legend onslaught), hitting orange bars for double procs everytime

[@Jbrooks7177]

Handheld supernova was awesome.

[@apollodeancampbell4272]

Wouldn't kick start and double bomber help to bring it back quicker? I'm still using mine with that set up, yes it's worse buf still usable with a sidearm that has demolition

[@IronworkerGaming]

You certainly can still make use of it. Given the fact that the Chaos Accelerant aspect as a whole doesn't provide huge benefits to it's grenades (except for Magnetic perhaps), and with how easily we can keep our grenades off cooldowns via other options, I just don't like the idea of having to pile on additional armor mods to bring the exotic back up to snuff. 👍👍

[@Guardianapophis]

i think i saw in an Aztecross video rhat it was mentioned in a witch queen season to receive a nerf

[@amergingourlay6327]

i use contraverse and a demo adrenaline junky void machine gun for a grenade back every 2-3 kills it has destroyed everything since void 2.0, strongly recommend

[@IronworkerGaming]

Give it a try without it. With that setup Feed the Void's grenade energy refund should keep you topped of without any problem. 👍👍

[@ashb8036]

Feels like the same time briarbinds came out, my devourlock just faded immediately. There definitely was either a stealth nerf or something is bugged.

[@IronworkerGaming]

After some additional digging, it looks like the recent ability cooldown rework had something to do with it. I think Bungie was mainly trying to keep armor mods from providing too big of a benefit to abilities with longer cooldowns, but since Contraverse works on a percentage based increase, it took a hit with those changes as well. 😞👍

[@Rushgarroth]

Regarding to the TWAB from DEC 7, 2021 Contraverse Hold Ability-regeneration boost now always lasts for 1.75s. Previously, the boost would range between 1s and 4s. Previous average duration was 1.35s due to weighting. In PvP game modes, reduced grenade-energy gain by 50%. So often, especially when many mobs have been there you just got back your full grenade. This was the last time they appeared in any TWAB/TWID except the dawning eerie engrams wich simply said... hey exotic xy can drop there. Also a change from way back in 2020, they once gave 40% dmg resist and not "just" 20 like nowadays, wild to think about. Not shure if i can link the twab here or if yt auto removes my comment then.

[@IronworkerGaming]

It was a sad day when the original rework went into place. While it did make them more consistent, I sure did miss seeing that grenade meter pop strait back up to full! 😂 After doing some additional digging, the issue that I'm seeing now seems to be linked to the 7.3.0 Season of the Wish ability energy retuning where those with slower base cooldowns (like the Vortex Grenade) see smaller benefits from anything boosting regen. I think Bungie was mainly trying to target Armor Mods in this change, but it looks like Contraverse, since it does work within the same parameters, took a hit as well. 👍👍

[@Rushgarroth]

@@IronworkerGaming Someone of the community made google site just for twabs. "groogle.zip/twab_search" if you wanna take a look. You can just search for exotics and see every twab where it is named. So for future videos and stuff maybe usefull =)

[@IronworkerGaming]

@@Rushgarroth Ahhh! I never new such a thing existed! That would be very handy. Thank you very much for the intel! 👍🍻

[@vectorortiz]

It was planned and published, but I don't remember when. For Onslaugth, I'm going to try Strand Warlock, with Necrotic Grips

[@IronworkerGaming]

After looking into things a bit further, I do believe that they got inadvertently hit by the Season of the Wish ability energy rework. Because they're working off a percentage based increase, it seems the changes that went into place to curb the effect of cooldown focused armor mods, or demolitions hit Contraverse as well sadly. 👍👍

[@chem2430]

Not bugged, just the result of the changes bungie made, hell it still has that ass perk where it stops your super from charging while you hold a grenade

[@snowboundwhale6860]

It's a shame Controverse isn't performing as well as it used to. It doesn't help that Briarbinds and the Devour changes are indirect nerfs, with Feed the Void becoming more important and Child of the Old Gods actually being something you can build into properly. It'd be good if Chaos Accelerant got a buff (just in general, but also it'd help Controverse indirectly as the associated exotic), returning the damage boost that was removed is an obvious one but they could try other things, such as charged vortex grenades slowing targets caught in them after the pull, or axion bolt seekers causing volatile. This feeling is probably informed by my own bias as the main way I used Controverse was Vortex Grenades with Echos of Undermining and Remnants, but Void Souls have similar aoe, better duration, also spread weaken, and regen ability energy on top of that, so while void soul damage itself isn't close they're better for the non-damage parts I wanted, and I still have my grenades in addition to that. Briarbinds makes void soul able to be repositioned and provides functionally unlimited uptime aside from moments where there's long pauses/ runs between combat encounters which in itself makes "aoe weaken everywhere all the time" feasible with just rift, which frees the undermining fragment slot and means not having to deal with that -20 discipline it has. It's hard not to play the comparison game when we're talking about exotics, especially those for the same class, subclass, and in this case even the same armour slot; I don't think Controverse is actually "bad" right now, but it's a little underwhelming which can be a death sentence when it has such strong direct competition.

[@IronworkerGaming]

It is sad that Contraverse isn't quite what it was, and that it kind of got pushed around in the overall sandbox. Even if untouched going forward though, I do really like the idea of Bungie taking another pass at the Chaos Accelerant aspect. If the Aspect itself was a bit stronger overall, that could innately bring Contraverse up a touch! 👍👍

[@IMTHE1GINGER]

I believe there was a blanket nerf to ability Regen at %50 sometime this last year. You can see this also in the travelers chosen sidearm.

[@IronworkerGaming]

I believe that you are correct. It's sad that Contraverse got swept up in those changes as well. 👍👍

[@TragicChaosx]

Hey buddy! I hope that you’re doing well! Sorry that I haven’t commented in awhile but I’ve been staying update on your videos! I hope that you remember me 😂🍻

[@IronworkerGaming]

Ayeee!! Great to hear from you man! Don't worry about not commenting. That fact that you've hung with me and the channel for all these years is more than enough! 😁🍻

[@curtisnielsen1399]

I believe it was not intentional, but just natural with recent ability cooldown changes. Since ability cooldowns are now longer in general th % increase to recharge rate is less overall.

[@IronworkerGaming]

A few others had pointed that out and I do believe that you are right. It sad that to see Contraverse inadvertently effected by those changes as well. 👍👍

[@curtisnielsen1399]

@IronworkerGaming very sad as the main point I ran these was in harder content with the vortex. It was excellent with the multiple props and getting several overpowered grenades for beefy champions or bosses

[@VladShpiro]

Thanks for ref-ing Colin Mcrae, appreciated

[@jindosuni]

“Regulate Funkiness” is my favorite P-funk album

[@IronworkerGaming]

😁👍🍻

[@markjohn3875]

I haven't used these since briarbinds came out

[@jungillestt02]

My son brought these up to me today, I think they are bugged, well at least I hope so. Hopping they didn't catch the starfire nerf.

[@IronworkerGaming]

Unfortunately it looks like they may have inadvertently got tangled up in the ability cooldown rework from late last year. It's definitely sad to see that they aren't working as well as they use to. 👍👍

[@markshmellomd1370]

It sucks cause chaos accelrant changes all nades to the same 201 cooldown. Like if i wanna spam hand held super nova, even though magnetic grenades have a much lower cooldown, im sacrificing 30 seconds too get handheld super nova? What was the thought process there?

[@StarDust_2077]

I love math. Subscribed

[@IronworkerGaming]

I really appreciate that! 😁🍻

[@MainBattleRobot1701]

While, I just can’t bring myself to do Destiny again- because of various “Stealth Nerfs” or blatant Nerfs such as this- I still

[@IronworkerGaming]

As always, I really do appreciate you popping in! 😁🍻

[@generalnawaki]

Lot of old exotics can't keep up anymore. Yesterdays lost sector dropped two exotics that still feel viable and the rest are either too specific in how they work to be viable or are just not strong enough anymore.

[@gryphon123456]

Verity’s brow is now a better selection. It gives your grenades major damage

[@Dorian-101]

As a huge fun of contraverse, I still think devour is inferior to cure / restoration. Therefore, Sunbracers are a far better option in current content. With devour I NEED adds around to proc, with cure / restoration I just need to consume a grenade or phoenix dive or phoenix dive while using heat rises to proc rest. x2 and then IF there are adds, I'd still say solar is superior as ember of empyrean is just clutch for radiance and rest. Contraverse is fun, but I couldn't imagine using it in end game vs. solar. Sunbracers feels near perfect for the upcoming Onslaught mode.

[@IronworkerGaming]

I agree. While I consider myself a Voidwalker thru and thru, the usefulness of Dawn Blade with it's easy access to constant healing can't be overstated! 👍👍

[@philipharris-smith5889]

Its the nade nerf itself that is the killjoy.

[@James-km7yz]

Sounds like you should try reaching out to the devs and let them know / ask if this is intentional or not. Great video by the way. 👍

[@IronworkerGaming]

Thank you very much, and perhaps I should. I don't know if I'm "well known" enough as a creator to spark a response, but it might be worth a try! 😁🍻

[@HybridPK_]

Contraverse had been my go-to voidwalker exotic for years. I recently picked up the game again after a long hiatus and immediately noticed I wasn't getting the same amount of grenade energy back, particularly against bosses. I feel like I have to swap them out with something else. Not really looking forward to that.

[@matthewreed5988]

I don't think controverse got nerfed. The cooldown on vortex grenades has been increased twice since when you last tested the exotic and the regeneration rate of grenades (through the discipline stat) has also been nerfed in Lightfall. Now controverse refunds less energy and the enhanced regeneration makes up a lower portion of the full grenade cooldown.

[@IronworkerGaming]

After further digging, that does appear to be the case. With Chaotic Exchanger working off a percentage based cooldown boost, the ability energy rework definitely had a hand in it's reduced energy refund. 👍👍

[@Rockervaner]

I still use them, not as busted as they used to be but still very effective nonetheless

[@Shade23753]

RIP Contraverse Hold, you had a good run . Nezarec's Sin is the way to go to restore Void Abilities!

[@IronworkerGaming]

I've always been a big fan of Nezarec's Sin! 👍👍

[@sundown2852]

I thought i noticed something strange, it takes me like 4 kills with one grenade to get it back now

[@__NORO__]

Nothing manacles feels like it got a much harder nerf then controverse hold, before season of the Wish, nothing manacles was my go to void exotic but now contraverse holds is my main void exotic again, it gives the most easy granade and gun build synergy, charge grande, throw, dmg and kill ads, get grande energy back, proc feed the void and volatile rounds, make some kills, get granade back in 5sec

[@mohawkgarry]

This is... Such a shame. Looks like I'll be swapping to Verity's more often. Usually just use it on Arc, but yeah...

[@christhiantrevisan8084]

Damm, I miss the days we could get one kill and get around 70% with the exotic, kickstart and elemental wells 😢

[@soze230]

Dude all I use is this exotic. It’s still goated. But these numbers are concerning. I wouldn’t go as far as contra is this bad. It still way better than anything in like GM content. Maybe briar’s edge above it. All I remember is when the mods got changed / nerfed for orb generation, then I just swapped out one of the aspects to compensate so I can get two orbs per grenade now. That’s all I really do to offset the multiple changes that’s affected this child. Just mod around it. At least one bomber a grenade kickstart ashes to ashes, powerful attraction and the fragment that gives you an orb when you kill a weakened enemy. I’ve always loved it man, I try use another void walker exotic and they just don’t do what contra does for me. But yeah definitely looks like something is going on, you need either double ticks. Or you need to place the nade in a way where you get devour from one kill first then the others start to get pulled in and feed you nade energy. If you throw it into a group of four enemies and 3 die immediately just from the initial landing of the nade you’re not getting the most out of that

[@jamespalmer8632]

I think I remember Bungie actually addressing controversy holds specifically I don't remember exactly when but they did Target that exotic for how good it was a little too harshly if you ask me

[@IronworkerGaming]

It's looking like Contraverse got tangled up in the ability cooldown rework from a few months ago that targeted our cooldown focused armor mods. Since the cooldown improvement is percentage based it unfortunately seems to have been affected, but it's sad to see an exotic get caught in the changes.👍👍

[@pancakegod666lol]

I lost interest in chaos accelerant when they took away the damage buff it gave for charging in the first place, now it's just always a weaker choice than the other grenades that don't need to be charged.

[@IronworkerGaming]

That was a very sad day when the 20% damage increase got removed! 👍👍

[@chadm8111]

100000% agree with you. I think they shadow nerfed this exotic for some reason and it didn't need it.

[@IronworkerGaming]

It appears that it got tangled up in the ability cooldown rework from a few months ago that targeted our cooldown focused armor mods. It's sad to see an exotic get caught in the changes.👍👍

[@cidnar21]

Bungie could just easily fix this by decreasing the base cooldown of Vortex Grenade (2:32) and put it back down to 1:45 (the same like Scattter and Magnetic Grenade) (or maybe only while Contraverse is equipped). That would also fix the issue that Bomber, Innervation and Grenade Kickstart mods don't do anything. Bungie increased Vortex' cooldown because of all those energy returning effects with the new mod system and then they made those effects scale with ability cooldowns (which is kinda stupid because fast charging abilities charge even faster now and slow ones even slower)

[@IronworkerGaming]

That would be a very welcome change! Having Vortex up at 2;30 feels unnecessarily long. 👍👍

[@padawanjon6441]

Notification gang!

[@IronworkerGaming]

Great to see you here bright and early!! 😂🍻

[@monosito59]

Damn, Ive been playing a lot less Destiny 2 in general these days, let alone across my alt characters (hunter and warlock). Just throwing on contraverse and calling it a day when I wanted or needed to run voidlock was overall nice to do. If this isnt a bug, ill actually have to think of a better build for voidlock lol

[@IronworkerGaming]

Indeed. It really puts Contraverse in a tough spot currently. It would appear that they were hurt by ability cooldown rework from a few months ago that targeted our cooldown focused armor mods. It's sad to see an exotic get caught in the changes, but at least there are still some decent Voidwalker options out there. 👍👍

[@TheLogan771]

I think it indirectly got nerfed by a recent sweeping cooldown change bungo did where ability returns to lower cooldowns return more, while ability returns to longer cooldowns, like vortex grenade, are now lower. I think it’s the season of the wish patch notes. might sound goofy, but try contraverse with a lower cooldown void nade, it might give a larger % of grenade back

[@IronworkerGaming]

Ahhh! That would make sense if Contraverse got tangled up in those changes. I did try a few different grenades out, and quicker cooldowns like the Magnetic did have the best improvement (~32%), but even then I still wish it was a bit better. 👍🍻

[@TheLogan771]

same, it’s sad to see the state it’s in now when it used to be a staple in my void builds. luckily briarbinds and verity’s are a lot of fun.

[@ShaoShaoMienshao]

You know, I hate to ask, but when it comes to "less used options that might be able to rise up", what do you think about checking out Promethium Spur? As a horde mode, Onslaught is perhaps one of the only situations I can think of where the combo Healing+Empowering rifts might be very useful.

[@IronworkerGaming]

Promethium Spur actually may find a place in there. If the action does end up playing out in a similar manner to how it did in the first live stream they could be pretty good! 👍👍

[@CHEA7CODE]

Yeah i gotta get kills after a virtex nade and devour to top of the rest of getting my nade back, kinda sad

[@user-funnymadp]

just use sin with a demo & adrenaline void smg, no need to charge, more grenade, more weapon damage. Or maybe even verity's brow

[@Astrapionte]

They changed it? I’ve been using them for so long now, thinking that they were really good! Don’t know they used to be better.

[@clapped_globe2368]

It's been some time since i visited this channel. Hey ironworker, is it worth coming back to destiny at this moment? I do kinda miss the community

[@IronworkerGaming]

Ayeee! Great to hear from you. Honestly, I do think it's a great time to hop back in! Big update coming this week, community moral feels pretty high, and the game as whole feels like it's in a pretty good state! 😁🍻

[@user-jz9vz8mm7q]

still using them, still great

[@IronworkerGaming]

If you're still putting them to good use, that's all that matters! 👍👍

[@sebastian_blair6685]

In my opinion it's only great for maybe master and grandmaster content and harder and doesn't require kills so that's a positive the others require kills so if your just fighting the champ and killed everything else first then controverse better and kickstart use to work with it with 0 armor charge now its been nerfed and also requires armor charge still good in my eyes if have bombers and mods geat rift back with the soul active can spam rift and nade solo or with people

[@samlasalle3853]

I really hate to see how far contraverse has fallen in terms of viability because it is the only exotic that really makes sense to use with chaos accelerant. I really miss the grenade charging fantasy for warlocks because it has slowly disappeared. Solar lost its charged healing grenades, arc never had charged grenades, and strand doesn't have charged grenades. It is just stasis with bleak watcher (strong, but very situational and outclassed by well of radiance in most content) and void with chaos accelerant (only vortex grenades are useful with charging, which doesn't even provide a ton of benefits and contraverse is bad at what it does now).

[@the_filthy_macgyver]

RIP. Used to be my go to warlock exotic. 😢

[@IronworkerGaming]

It was a great exotic in it's day! Great to hear from you man, and I hope you've been well! 😁🍻

[@the_filthy_macgyver]

@@IronworkerGaming Yeah, doing well. Hope all is well for you. Thanks for the video and trip down memory lane. I have to say I’ve been really enjoying briarbinds for pve and PvP. Contraverse still need a proper fix one day.

[@firestar6]

I'm asking that about ophidian aspect, why did they get rid of the melee range

[@IronworkerGaming]

I believe Bungie said that they wanted to keep melee ranges normalized. It was such a great facet of the exotic though, and I was sad to see it removed. 👍👍

[@chillhour6155]

I hate it when certain mods only exists to fill a slot just because of a nerf, exotics feel weak man

[@MaximusDelia]

is nezerac sin still good from what it used to be, i thought the nerf was pretty bad?

[@IronworkerGaming]

It's still pretty potent. I'm actually working on a video for it, but provided you can keep Abyssal Extractor up more often than not, it will put all of the standard abilities in the 20 to 30 second cooldown range while aiding in sub 1 minute supers in add heavy content. 👍👍

[@danejones-qy6jy]

Nez is still the goat IMO

[@thegymteachersgrandma]

Triple veritys could go absolutely nuts

[@IronworkerGaming]

3 Warlocks all feeding each other grenade energy for double strength grenades can get wild! 👍👍

[@thegymteachersgrandma]

@@IronworkerGaming extremely, some Vortex nades and you can lock down areas while dealing big dmg

[@kyamra]

Last I knew it stacked on initial hit based on how many enemies were hit

[@IronworkerGaming]

I wish it worked like that, but alas as soon as the grenade registers a hit Chaotic Exchangers goes on that 4 second cooldown. 👍👍

[@kyamra]

@@IronworkerGaming I'll do a bit of testing to see what I can't get working

[@IronworkerGaming]

@@kyamra Let me know how things go! Watch your external grenade regens when you test it. I have had a lot of people thinking Contraverse was giving them buckets of grenade energy when it was really coming from Devour. 👍🍻

[@simonhall1328]

Try it with Echo Undermining, that's what I run. I don't seem to have these issues.

[@IronworkerGaming]

Very interesting. I'll have to check into that. 👍👍

[@simonhall1328]

@@IronworkerGaming here's my fragments : Undermining, expulsion, remnants and obscurity. 100 discipline Double bolstering detonation and fire power. Double bomber with proximity ward. Double absolution and innervation on the bond. Void siphon on the hood.

[@tecnza]

They are still fillingquite fast when you throw them at bulletsponges. But yeah, it's sad they are useless now for fighting low tier enemies.