CONTROVERSIAL STOPPAGE?! 😱 Rener Gracie vs Cassio Werneck Leglock Dispute

[@UnskilledGrappler]

So it’s like this. When you’re doing a sport where tapping means you give up, and you find yourself in a legit submission threat, and then you move your hand in a way that half the room (and half the people in this video) including your opponent and the ref think you tapped, that’s on you. He might’ve tapped. Maybe not. But since it looked to a lot of people like he did, he has to own it.

[@K0nc3pt10n]

Exactly.

[@ll2nycell]

Great perspective

[@apoleonschneider]

Nah, he wasnt tapping. I say this being a huge Rener fan. That guy didnt tap yet. He was about to tap though. The ref should had wait.

[@K0nc3pt10n]

@@apoleonschneider I think you missed the whole point.

[@apoleonschneider]

@@K0nc3pt10n *shrugs*

[@untilvalhalla7854]

A. The tap is a fundamental safety measure that enables hard training and the sport. Whether it was or not, two of the three thought it was and the match ended. That is really as it should be. The alternative is injury. B. There was a look of resignation that passed over Cassio Werneck’s face at the exact moment of the “”tap.” Every BJJ athlete knows that feeling. That makes it look a lot like a tap to me. C. I could be wrong.

[@RiccardoAmmendoliaBJJ]

🙏🙏Thanks so much for watching. Make sure to BE KIND & SUBSCRIBE to the channel for more great BJJ Content: tinyurl.com/ubb7sup

[@StrumVogel]

Let them restart in a fully locked ankle lock. 😂

[@kennethturner8290]

Yeah, that was my thought as well if Werneck wished to continue.

[@JLJE54]

And thus, the “brazilian tap” was born

[@PitBlackBelt]

That’s is true

[@tjm9565]

uhhh Born way before this

[@elitecombatfitnesscentral6170]

😂😂😂😂😂❤

[@josemartin1727]

@ 9:07 This is the first time I've ever heard Rener Gracie say a curse word 😂

[@brysonz]

He’s lucky that Renee loosened it when he tapped. That immediate release of pressure made him think he didn’t tap. His facial expression gave him away.

[@ShawnDeLaCruz]

Based on the second view, NO TAP. But the stoppage did save him from a broken ankle. I usually prefer the broken ankle so there leaves no doubt.

[@User-54631]

You’d let your ankle break for no money?

[@ShawnDeLaCruz]

@johnmorris3650 No, I would tap. But if someone does not tap like Werneck in this case, I would have preferred him to get a broken ankle so his mouth is shut after the fight.

[@bodhisattva99]

You can see him quit and tap all at the same time. Then he changes his mind after Rener lets him go.

[@ShawnDeLaCruz]

@@bodhisattva99 I don't see that.

[@William.H.Bonney]

You would let your ankle break or you expect others to not tap and let their ankles break?

[@kjprowebhosting]

At the 7-minute and 14-second mark of the video -- we see a rock-solid, scary ankle lock. Period. Rener didn't have to let go, and sure as hell wasn't going to let go. That was a victory for Rener.

[@qazmko22]

7:14

[@billycostigen9516]

If that wasn’t a tap then that was a strange movement to do at that point.

[@seanyd5698]

Exactly, he would of been using that hand to defend not tap on his leg 😂

[@ll2nycell]

I agree. I was wondering what else that was for. It was like such a defeated look and move. Like wtf?😂😂

[@rai1012]

Brazilian tap go and search u don’t know don’t speak the best thing

[@chrismiksworld]

You see as soon as his hand touched Reners Leg that he jolts it back so it would not be mistaken for a tap. That was a light brush or touch at most which happens in BJJ Not a Tap. A tap is 100% a Noticeable undeniable thing, especially in a move like this where if you watch videos of THOUSANDS of People Actually Taping in this and holds like this they Forcefully undeniably and REPEATEDLY with force TAP

[@seanyd5698]

@@chrismiksworld Brazilian tap bro. Just enough to get ya opponent to let go but not enough to look like a full on tap so you can deny that you tapped 😎

[@5solas743]

I much preferred the old days when the fights were real and uninterrupted and there was no question as to who the winner was. I miss the Vale Tudo focused Jits we practiced back in the late 80’s and much of the 90’s. But, that focus isn’t where the money is so I get it. I still like watching the old challenge matches, very nostalgic. I do appreciate how beautiful a sport it has become, but in many ways in many schools it has departed from its roots.

[@davidmiller-zf8zl]

Tough spot for both guys really. When I get to a leglock or heel hook in my gym I typically back off, expecting a tap. Nobody's trying to get a new MCL for a hobby.

[@insidetrip101]

Was definitely a straight ankle--not a heel hook. Even the ibjjjf says white belts can do straight ankles . . . . Either way, I do agree with you. I can understand both sides. From one angle (and I suspect probably the referee's position), it really does look like he tapped. From the other, you can clearly see he's not tapping. At the end of the day, he was not going to get out of that straight ankle. . . choosing to just eat the sub . . . that's not right either . . .

[@markdaniels4178]

Thank you for your reasonable intelligence... 🙏 this is why I stick with judo these days because of egos and stupidity in rhe bjj community

[@eastweymouthchris]

Im familiar with nogi and yesgi but I’ve never seen maybegi before

[@AmiasTshibanguNgalula]

I usually don't bother commenting on video's, but if you look at the replay 9:17 you can see him trying to post his forearm on the ground. As his arm bounced up from the mat the ref read that movement as a tap, thus stopping the match. Right thereafter you can clearly see confusion on Cassio's face. The ref might have saved him from a serious injury, but he didn't tap. Or the tap was not clear enough to be considered as such.

[@JK-nh6jp]

100% agree. No tap. without bias.

[@JustinColletti]

The tap happens before that at 9:15. Watch it in slow motion. He taps once on Rener’s leg, right above the knee. The part I don’t understand is why they called him for stalling when he had Renee smashed in half guard with an underhook. That’s not a stalling position. That’s a working toward a pass position. Rushing him there killed the whole momentum of the match.

[@Carlosfernandez-i9w7j]

His arm bounced? From the floor to reners knee? Come on man. He tapped. And if he didn't he should have been before Rener popped something.

[@carcinohate]

Why would your brain tell your hand to make a movement that (at the least) resembles a tap when your whole being agrees with you that you are atm participating in a jiujitsu match where one of the main way to lose is to tap??? Am i the one not using common sense here? 🤔

[@letstalkcaliber704]

Watching this years ago as a white belt i thought he totally tapped. Watching this as a brown belt I don't think he tapped. Ive seen so many worse foot locks. He hardly touched the leg at all. If youre tapping you got to tap multiple times.

[@smesh141]

Lol You do the sport in which tap means you surrender, so accidently you do the tap move while being in submission hold 😂 You don't have to tap multiple times, it's not true, where did you get that from?

[@letstalkcaliber704]

@@smesh141 you tap multiple times because how is someone supposed to know if you were just going to push the foot down and change your mind moving the hand elsewhere. A lot of times you might touch the body then decide to grab somewhere else. You need to tap multiple times a day or say tap.

[@uke_mike]

first glance looks like a definite tap, 2nd looks like it kinda was a "russian tap" or "Sonnen" tap but then stopped the tap mid tap....if that makes sense...im not sure Im making sense at this point.

[@Seegie16]

You are making sense. Its funny you call it a Russian tap. Ive always known it as the brazilian or sonnen tap. Anyhow, there was no tapping of the floor or Reners body . It was a waving tap which is not recognized. No doubt he was going to officially tap if it was broken up at that very moment thouh. He was so close to tapping but pulled away

[@scluciano]

@@Seegie16 I always release the preasure in the first tap, but keep holding the submission. This is why people try to trick you , tap but not tap.

[@alexbambam1]

Was this the first ever Brazilian tap recorded? And slow down the video to .5 starting at 9:15 and you can clearly see the tap.

[@danle3181]

Isn't a "tap" supposed to be at least three taps ?

[@sleepytwiggaming]

That definitively was a tap but didn’t wanna tap lol

[@socalled33]

aka 'The Brazilian Tap'

[@Mac58058]

After watching the replay he definitely didn’t tap but the only other thing that was going to happen was his ankle was going to get snapped off 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@apoleonschneider]

I agree! He didnt tap yet. He would, but the ref called wrong.

[@ArchieSuave]

It kinda looks like he was expecting be reset since they were going off the mat. It was a straight ankle lock and there can be a lot play in people’s ankles. If it was a heel hook it may have been different but I’m not sure that was a tap. I think it would have to touched twice for me to consider it a tap with full confidence.

[@brandonpemberton5707]

Lol dude called stalling in the middle of a knee cut pass...

[@tevaybjj1077]

😂😂

[@Luis-nw4xr]

What do u call this fight? No gi vs 1/2 gi or 1/2 no gi?

[@stevensartifacts]

Looks like he was going to tap, so he tapped once, and then decided not to. It would be nice to be able to let the march continue but as a ref, you’re looking out for the safety of the fighters, so as soon as you see tapping start you stop the fight.

[@mccglastron1972]

That's NOT a tap... maybe he was close and was thinking about it? Maybe not? Just wait till they tap clearly and more then once... they are all growed up and blackbelts and they know when to tap.

[@shrimuyopa8117]

The first view it looks like a tap. However on the second view? It wasn't a tap. Straight ankle locks are interesting in that you have to have a perfect setup to break an ankle. You might be able to get something to where your opponent is in a lot of pain but nothing is going to break. Either way we will never know.

[@user-vc6]

some old timer lore...for a long time 90's-2010 era people thought it was almost impossible to actually break the ankle. maybe in brazil some knew from the unfilmed competitions like the bicep cutter it could actually break bones (people used to say why is the bicep cutter banned? but there's some awful breaks now on film) . bas rutten kept saying ''its only a pain move on tv'' and it spread... i even let my ankle nearly get ripped off in a purple belt absolute match against a super heavy thinking it wouldn't break. i kept my best miyao face on as my ankle was swollen and (even more painful afterword) my toes+ midfoot got crushed pulling out .. lucky i got ballarina feet and won but more recently we started seeing ankles break due to better understood positioning to allow massive torque

[@zenshinacademy4096]

I watched that moment a few times, at first, I thought it was a tap, after a few times watching I think it might have not been. But as expressed in other comments in a game where a tap means give, you have to be very careful about moving your hands like that. Also, I think when a group of over testosterone men with huge egos gather together, any MMA/BJJ gym I have ever been in, you will find this kind of dispute.

[@mikecodellaupagainstthewall]

When was this?

[@lekcindr]

As someone who has never rolled and is becoming a jiu jitsu fan through fandom of mma, I realize there is a need for the ref to stop a match immediately when someone taps out, particularly depending on the severity of the hold causing serious damage if prolonged. All that being said though, isn't the protocol three quick taps? And I would assume it is three so that there is no confusion in situations such as these. Again though, no experience here so interested to see how practitioners view it.

[@apoleonschneider]

There is no three taps protocol. You just feel the tap and sometimes hear (they literally say tap, or "deu deu" in brazilian portuguese). When rolling, if you are not stupid, you will tap once the techinique is locked, so you wont get hurt. Competition is another thing, you are meant to fight to get out.

[@markdaniels4178]

The ref made rhe right call end of story

[@HENZI-cv7re]

7:17 for the tap. Also 9:13.

[@danrod3790]

Rener was known for his footlocks.

[@bjarneschmalbach1524]

xD

[@michaelfinley4440]

Why would he wear a Gi top when the other isn't?

[@tjl4688]

Handicap.

[@herbertshriver2021]

This is obviously not a street fight,so participants use taps so they both can train, test their skills, improve on them,and nobody get hurt. I fail to see the big deal over who won, who tapped or some of the comments. This was suppose to be a friendly match between two talented jiu jitsu practitioners, not a first fight, not MMA, no lives on the line,and no cash. This should equal no controversy IMO.

[@skipdippity]

Does anyone know who was walking at the end? No shirt. Looked like he may have been next up?

[@2008israelramos]

Rener was at a big disadvantage going Gi top vs no Gi.

[@jonmoris9354]

Yes someone said it why would you give him handles when you don't have them

[@Black-Circle]

9:15 Maybe he thought anout tapping then decided not too. shame really. a tap should always be consider 3 taps

[@Krebstar100]

He did what is referred to as a Brazilian tap. He hoped to get Rener to release due to the light tap without the ref seeing it. Making a tap be a certain amount of reps increases the danger of injury.

[@Black-Circle]

@@Krebstar100 not on a straight footlock. Two or three clear taps are not going to result in any more damage.

[@Krebstar100]

@@Black-Circle you can definitely pop an ankle quick with a straight ankle lock.

[@chrisc2671]

I’d like to ask the guy this: “If you didn’t tap then what the fuck were you doing? You were just sitting there with no effort to escape, eating a straight foot lock.” What was his plan? Wait till Rener goes belly down and then after his shin snaps he will be able to pull his foot out? 😅 My point is that he was not even trying to escape. There’s no way Rener wouldn’t have been able to damage the guys foot, even if he had to change his grip etc.

[@markdaniels4178]

Exactly! I'm not even a fan of the gracies and you're spot on

[@808frontline]

He tapped at 7:19

[@lloyd2929]

This ref thinks it's Henry (1:35) vs Carlos (0:50) and Paul (4:49). 🙄🤣

[@tjl4688]

To be fair, Rener jokes that his American name is "Henry Garcia"

[@Black-Circle]

its hard to see his hand came up and came down but it was like he used his hand for base on the floor. very unclear

[@ThePeacePlant]

No, he was about to tap but noticed he could take the pain a bit more, so to give himself more time to get himself out of the hold he was in

[@Black-Circle]

@@ThePeacePlant yeah its hard to see what. Especially in the moment

[@living_with_intent]

is that a young Mirko Cro Cop at the end waiting to compete?

[@RiccardoAmmendoliaBJJ]

Yes

[@alfonsofragoso4122]

No tap.

[@lawrencekirwin9665]

It doesn’t matter! Regardless lessons at the highest level, mistakes and awareness.

[@rodrigotellom]

7:18 right there

[@TonyFernandezjkdjedi]

He clearly tapped, was wondering why Rener wore the gi top, half way into the match I can see why with the Ezekiel attempts from the bottom.

[@itsFETO]

Honestly, it seems like Rener was reacting to the refs signal to stop and not the tap, which can happen sometimes, you don't realize someone is tapping, although the other guy laying back and looking like he gave up after touching Reners leg did not help to determine I'd he was submitting or not. It's all over the place but this definitely did not seem rigged or anything, just a huge miscommunication or misunderstanding because he very well could have been in the middle of a tap but then hoped no one would notice.

[@rannunciacao]

Cassio should fight Toquinho next time

[@rocket5557]

That was funny! Cassio might never walk again

[@1azyb0t]

How old are these matches?

[@tjl4688]

2003-2005 I think?

[@lausodresapo1336]

09:16 he felt like tap, but he didn't

[@timandmonica]

My opinion is that he really did tap. Why else would an experienced BJJ practitioner do what he did? You would never do that and be surprised that people thought you tapped if you are really at that level. "Brazilian tap"?

[@FR-ty5vn]

Looked like a tap that immediately became a regret.

[@rsb7613]

Just need a rule that 3 taps always

[@THEANPHROPY]

Saved his knee! He let go motioned to tap & played possum hoping for reset maybe? Ref read it as tap & this decision is the right one! A ref needs to be able to step in & stop the roll before injury occurs!!!

[@negativezero3107]

There are a few UFC matches where Royce does this but they let it slide, Severn is a good example, Royce tapped, I would say it has to be a solid several taps but when your shit is about to break I understand the stoppages haha

[@fernandoortolani9709]

Royce didn't tap against Severn.

[@bodhisattva99]

we did watch the tape, all of us, and we saw you tap 7:18 in such a way that you knew he would let you out and you would still have the ability to deny that you actually tapped. YOU TAPPED. IT was TAPED. We know. You had 'quit' written all over your face. It happens, bro. Learn to live with it. Sometimes it's you. Sometimes it's them. That's reality.

[@tylercrousore1311]

is this old?

[@TopLevelJiuJitsu]

This video is from about 20 years ago. Why is this even brought up?

[@tjl4688]

It's important to remember history.

[@panditokaton7874]

tap or no tap, that looks like a tightly locked in straight ankle which would've at least sprained his ankle anyway had the match been allowed to continue

[@JustNo8808]

A lot of people would choose to have a sprained ankle rather than tap in a high-profile match to a straight ankle lock.

[@PauloBerni699]

Cool to hear Renner speaking portugués!

[@alexandertanev127]

Why is Rener wearing Gi top, but Cassio isn’t? 🤔

[@tjl4688]

It was allowed back in the day, and I think Rener did it as a handicap.

[@mikeyl6419]

Rematch...no time limit, no tapping, no doubt

[@shukijipota3114]

Why did only red shirt have grips?

[@bigj3086]

Maybe that dude tapped....but Tito definitely tapped!

[@keithdesautels6516]

If Rousimar Paulhares was in there we wouldn't have this problem

[@RiccardoAmmendoliaBJJ]

lol true

[@lounysd5239]

Why wearing the top of a gi against someone who hasn't in a grappling match ? It's obviously a disadvantage.

[@fabio87044]

achei que tivesse batido mas no replay mostra que não bateu.

[@sergiomedeiros7986]

Poooorra, juiz 🤦🏻‍♂️ he didn’t tap, the referee tapped on Rener’s leg

[@sushinfudoshin8991]

So this is when the Brazilian tap was born ?

[@Zionsol777]

he tapped, he lost, he cried. let it restart with the leg lock in place, under pressure... as he starts to scream in pain match starts....

[@ghengiskhan9308]

Didn't really look like a proper tap to me more of a touch kinda like he stopped himself from tapping

[@Krebstar100]

That's still considered a tap in both competition and the training room.

[@stevemarce1988]

NO Tap 🚫

[@torrayeplanet]

This is it . He was compromised locked in a bad spot. But then out of all the time spent then didnt do any motions that looked like a person tapping. But then at that point locked do a out of the blue tapping motion. While locked. The rest from beginning to that time he didnt out of the blue do any questionable tapping motions. Just at that time out the blue when he was locked. Who does that. Two good experienced obviously artist. Then make a motion like that. Too experienced for that right. Why move like that then out of the blue when ur locked then. Yes it wasnt alot and as if alot of pain and straight out give up but he tapped. Theres a difference it should be obvious two trained artists why do any motion like that then. U just out the blue here and there in a match do things that look like ur tappin. Just be humble and honest u tapped.

[@Veritas-dq2hs]

Are we arguing about some match that happened 20 years ago?

[@MMABeijing]

Simple: u don't tie ur shoes in a strawberry field

[@Mr850man]

He did a Brazillian tap, as expected

[@SF_Native]

First angle def looked like a tap. But that 2nd view? Definitely didn't tap.

[@concretechad]

Looks like Reverend John was the ref for that one?

[@PEDROVEIGA]

This looks like it went in Rio de Janeiro, at Padre Antonio vieira School. Is that right?

[@tjl4688]

No, this was the original Gracie Academy on Artesia Boulevard in Torrance.

[@orgANGmo]

Same tap as Gordon vs Nicky Rod, but the ref didn't stop it.

[@abnerroldan7076]

Why would Rener use the gi? It was an advantage for Cassio.

[@bechab]

for some reason when people do no gi - they become assholes

[@ThePeacePlant]

Why do they become assholes when they don't have a GI on? Can you please explain, I am new to BJJ

[@daddad6127]

7:19 I seen possible tap😅

[@rotisseriebear5394]

Watch the slow mo, then slow the play speed to .25. Look at his facial expression when he taps. It's a clear "My pride hurts more than anything, but OUCH!"

[@ricardorick2176]

Nao sabia que eles ja tinham lutado! Anos depois o Cassio cria um pod cast e o Ryron da entrevista lá! Rs

[@guizzdisco]

onde? nao encontrei. abs

[@ricardorick2176]

@@guizzdisco Cara esqueci o nome do Pod cast dele!

[@Dboy-ui1fb]

Honestly it looked like a tap but wasn't a tap. Doesn't even matter tho that was completely locked in if he held for 1 sec more his leg would be in pieces.

[@cdubs9918]

Why does it seem that every time there is a controversy in a match it involves a Gracie. Whether it's the rules, or the Gracie is allowed something his opponent is not allowed etc,etc...I love the whole Gracie family and what they gave to the world but they always seem to have excuses or controversies around matches.

[@tjl4688]

It's not the Gracies making excuses.

[@M4R5-C4V14R]

No tap. A single touch may just be a reflex, but multiple taps is unquestionable. Looked like he touched his leg by accident or as a reflex to catch himself as he was falling back.

[@pedrocardoso774]

The speed of that tap was not a "reflex" it seemed more like a "fuck, got me" he even stopped a little before tapping

[@bkn4]

Why is he wearing the jacket??

[@saburoitoneto6183]

Old Skool com chave de pé ou perna?? Antigamente isso era vergonhoso Por outro lado, me parece que o árbitro parou a luta e o oponente continuou apertando.. daí o toque do Cássio E ainda, a tradição do Jiu-jitsu sempre deixou claro que para encerrar a luta deve-se dar três tapas

[@scluciano]

Na verdade essa história de old school vem dos gracie, os fadda sempre usaram chave de pé e dai veio o preconceito, porque eles diziam que era técnica de suburbano.

[@fernandoortolani9709]

​@@sclucianocomo preconceito da família Gracie se eles - os Gracies - tbm usavam chave de pé?

[@banmadabon]

@@fernandoortolani9709 they used English keys and lead pipes too. Helio and two friends went to jail for beating a guy to a pulp and breaking his arm with iron bars (notwithstanding they were three against one.) Gracie family is and operates like a Mafia clan. Only Rickson is a decent man, a true modern Samurai

[@fernandoortolani9709]

@banmadabon many people believe in this and other stories about the Gracie family. But many people don't. I'm part of the latter.

[@scluciano]

@@fernandoortolani9709 Não usavam, as técnicas de chave pé vieram dos Fadda os Gracie foram derrotados nas mais de 20 lutas realizadas no desafio contra os Fadda e toda vez que alguém da academia Fadda atacava uma chave de pé eles gritavam *Sapateiro* dai veio o preconceito criado. Chamando isso de técnica de suburbano. Isso em 1951.

[@canecorsodoxa4060]

Took a while to complain conveniently after the leg was let go very suspicious behavior. Then gets up walking with a limp I think 🤔 that was a legit submission

[@kalikaputra]

that wasn't a tap

[@demetriosdemetrios1017]

Pra mim ele iria bater sim e quase bateu começou a fazer o movimento quando a luta parou. Deveria o juiz deixar rolar até ele bater ou quebrar. O golpe do Renan estava justo e não tinha saída. Renan ganhou.

[@truthseeker6116]

It was a tap or he was just about to tap but the ref stopped the fight too soon and gave him an excuse not to complete the tap. Good leg lock.

[@TrishCanyon8]

He definitely used his hand and gave one big tap. 😅 That's the signal for STOP when you surrender.

[@Pug351]

I think you should automatically lose 5 points for dropping to guard and butt scooting.

[@2130dar]

“I clearly felt a tap”

[@niledunn4641]

That's a tap pure and simple

[@Punisher-m3k]

This referee clearly never trained a day in his life....more concerned about joking around and being the center of the attention and forgot to do his only one job. The proof he never trained a day in his life, renner being smashed in the half guard in the beginning of the match and the ref saying "you have to move renner". No kidding, does he? Hahaha great advice if you were his coach. But accusing of stalling???

[@RiccardoAmmendoliaBJJ]

Interesting

[@jitsfitness3233]

Yeah I agree no tap.

[@MrJeezus]

What the heck was Cassio going to do had they not stopped Rener from taking that foot home?