Convoy Dust Test: M4gery / AR15

[@PianoMan347]

For the sake of consistency, I must insist that you guys continue to use the SpongeBob tape on every single dust test.

[@ddegn]

I was wondering what was on that tape.

[@brucewilson4200]

I concur. In testing important matters such as these, consistency is vital.

[@RAMPED]

It's standard issue, of course they are going to use it in all future videos.

[@Ecosse57]

the official tape of carnik con.

[@andreahighsides7756]

Ecosse57 Karl did a collab with CarnikCon btw. I forget which channel its on but they were shooting bulletproof helmets and plates

[@MrDposter]

No lube....Extra sand. Sounds like mondays at my work.

[@briandavenport8971]

Sounds like my time in the Marine Corps.

[@dELTA13579111315]

Sounds like discount night at the local gentleman's establishment

[@Lv-sl3rm]

I don't like sand...

[@coaxill4059]

I also hate working for Amazon.

[@d.b.1176]

I’d like your comment but you have 666 likes, can’t mess that up.

[@pscwplb]

FAL and G3 tests are definitely in order.

[@TheArklyte]

How dare you to imply that those existed and AR family isn't the only weapon of NATO forces that competed with AK family?! It's as if you're a sane person;)

[@thatoneengineer5525]

pscwplb I’d also be interested to see an m1a

[@worldfamousgi86]

@@thatoneengineer5525 They already did the M1A in a previous dust test (one of the very early videos on the channel) and it jammed up after a single round every single time.

[@tbr2109]

@@worldfamousgi86 They did, but it was a very different test. Also their M1A was in an aftermarket stock, and they left the selector switch cutout open. I wouldn't mind seeing them do this test with an M1A/M-14 that is in a USGI stock, and has the cutout plugged like it should be.

[@dylanwight5764]

Well, if they're going to test the FAL platform, it had better be the Commonwealth L1A1 Australian with its enlarged sand grooves. The whole purpose of that specific modification was to remediate the failures encountered while training in the Simpson. But for even more interesting comparison, the Israeli FAL should also be tested since it's considered the worst the platform has to offer. So test the best and the worst FAL variants against the practically standardized G3.

[@georgiabowhunter]

Ugh, flashbacks. No lube or dry lube is the key. All you need is an IED blast to make it 100% legit.

[@dylanwight5764]

Throw in a couple of rockets, some RPK fire from the hills, and a mad scramble for the nearest trough or tire in the middle of a reload (bolt group locked back, dust cover open).

[@dylanwight5764]

@ParselyBunny Condoms. I'm not kidding. We would use condoms or the fingers of silicone gloves over the muzzle. I knew one bloke who always brought packs of novelty camouflage condoms with him. Charged 50c a piece. At the end of the deployment he earned himself enough on condom sales to buy himself a soft gun case for his rifle.

[@dylanwight5764]

@@PedroThePanda64 Necessity is the mother of invention. Brings a whole new meaning to the term "protect your piece" and "always practice proper safety"

[@mugwump58]

@ParselyBunny There is an "issue" dust cover available

[@120masterpiece]

I always had the black cap. If the shit hit the fan, fuck it, blow that piece of shit off and don't even think about it.

[@HonestOutlawReviews]

No suprising to me ar15s are usually very reliable as long as nothing gets in the mags or internals. Great video guys

[@WhiteRidre]

Most malfunctions ARs are due to shitty mags or REALLY poor maintenance.

[@me323me]

I mean he purposely kicked up sand into the action and mag near the end of the video, but what really helped was keeping the thing dry

[@556deltawolf]

And the thing is, dirt in the mag or internals will ruin almost any gun. Even AK-47s.

[@justiron2999]

Isn't that the fatal flaw for most guns lol

[@trilliamogdlocog4986]

I think that's with every firearm 🤷‍♂️

[@therealinak]

Little anecdote here. I used to HATE the AR platform and M9 for unreliability. It was pretty much for reasons you said: service rifles/pistols. Qualifying in BMT as a young Airman, we were given franken-16’s, which were a hodge-podge of M16 and M16A1/A2 lowers and M16, A1, and A2 uppers that we’re barely kept in running order and fed no-lead frangible ammo. The rifle I got had a 16 lower with “auto” hand stamped out with X’s and “burst” hand stamped under it, and an A1 upper, however the hand guards had broken and been replaced with A2 style. Good news was it had the old school lefty sheet metal brass hood. Past round 10, however it was a bolt action. Fast forward to Afghanistan, 2012, we were again issued tired, Reagan-era A2’s as we weren’t front-line troops (aircraft mechanics). At least we were given ammo, as the ANA had been shooting about as many Americans as they had their own countrymen. I cleaned my rifle as often as I could and it was never abused (just worn around base and on the ramp), however it was rare that I could drop the bolt and chamber a round after a day or two. A dust storm would make it hard to even open the rifle without mortaring it. Why? We were only given CLP to maintain the rifles, and as much as I tried to dry out every cranny and never use the CLP after the armory-mandated first cleaning, the thing remained a magnet. Combine that with a buffer spring as tired as the Russian “hairdressers” at the boardwalk, the thing was more useful as a brick. My opinion didn’t get better, as each recurring qual was done on equally tired A2s with leadless ammo, until the Camp Bastion disaster. Marines got rekt by Taliban on the flightline due to lack of security and complacent training for non-combat troops, losing a good chunk of Harriers and some good guys. If it happened to Marines, we all figured we were screwed. After some well-deserved peepee smacking by the top levels of the Pentagon, the AF dumped all the trashed A2s and standardized the M4/M68 combo, changed qualification to a tactical course of fire, and started using proper ball ammo for quals. My opinion of the M9/92 was equally bad for very similar reasons. Every encounter with the service pistol, it was trashed and unreliable. Fast forward a few years, and my two go-to guns are a Colt 6920/Aimpoint PRO and a 92FS. What changed? My guns aren’t 30 year old service weapons abused by generations of teenagers. Accepting that EVERY design will be trash when placed in military service allows you to less critical of any of them. Give it ten years, and the P320 will be widely hated.

[@calanon534]

1990: "Those 1911's worked no matter what! No problems! Nothing! Best handguns evar! These new 9mm sissy pistols are crap, break, and choke!" 2020: "Those Beretta 92's worked no matter what! These new SIG pistols jam and choke!" 2050: "Those SIG P320's worked no matter what! These new pistols just jam and choke!" 2080: "Man, those old Plasma Pistols, man..." 2180: "Those old Phase Pistols, man..." 2280: "Those old Type 1 Phasers, man..." Moral of the story: Soldiers will always complain, they will abuse their gear, and they will be fed plenty of propaganda from old salts that revered the olderweapons they used, because the ones that lived long enough to tell them about it, were the ones with well-maintained weapons. Speaking of, I remember someone saying years ago, that with the AR15/M16's reputation, combined with how the military keeps demanding "near 100% improvements" on new rifles, we're going to be hearing from future generations of Marines complaining about how their M4A9's are jamming on Martian dust.

[@todd2048]

I agree I started life in the Marines with an A1 than transitioned to A2 at one unit I checked into the A2 rifles where all silver not an once of finish left on them my gun was crap then I got a M60E3 man jamomatic gun couldn't shoot for the life of me. I was told use more LSA really? I eventually moved to the Saw loved that gun lighter then the PIG and it just plain worked. I eventually moved to the 92F I got yet again a tired pistol the problem with the US armed forces as a whole is One maint and the so precious attitude towards weapons equip. What I mean by this is DONT GET RID OF THAT MAGAZINE ITS SOOOOO PRECIOUS! when the damn mag is done spring crapped out mag dented but yet we have to keep it good grief then you try to qual and all you hear is Tap Rack Nothing!

[@Paid2Win]

Is this to say CLP catches more debris since its wet VS the gun running dry?

[@TheAlhouk57]

"Shermans were death traps!" Man who survived his tank getting destroyed

[@Paid2Win]

@@TheAlhouk57 The sherman had great survivability due to the ease of exiting the tank, but its armor and weaponry was subpar for sure.

[@blksubiesti]

pretty accurate test. In the invasion of Iraq we still put CLP on the inside of our rifles. The taping up the barrel is pretty legit we used duct tape to make shoot through muzzle caps. My rifle jammed our first ambush from the dust inside from the convoy. Switched to my M203 until I could get it back up and running. Thanks for giving me nightmares of the moon dust Have photos of how we set up our rifles if you ever need a reference

[@Tattlebot]

About a third of infantry reported a malfunction with their M16 that took a long time to clear during a firefight, or disabled the weapon for the entirety. It's just negligence by the Army.

[@WQuantrill]

What is used now rather than CLP?

[@deathdealer312]

@@WQuantrill CLP is still used afaik. It was when I was in in 2020

[@ExUSSailor]

It's almost as if they knew what they were doing when they designed them...

[@Trisket]

Get out of here with that common sense.

[@Gottaculat]

If the platform didn't work in a dusty environment, we wouldn't have been using it overseas these past 20 years. Haters gonna hate. Both the AK and AR platforms are solid designs. Just a fact.

[@matthayward7889]

The action sounded gritty as fuck after the sand kicking test. Impressive that it basically kept going though!

[@edm240b9]

Would love to see some older WWII stuff put through this test. Put the North African theater into perspective a bit. Maybe even Wild West...

[@Tobascodagama]

Plus, it would make a great pairing with the kubelwagen.

[@Ecosse57]

@@Tobascodagama it's not a kubelwagen. it's a thing.

[@1337penguinman]

Seconded. Would love to see this test on a Garand.

[@kgb3559]

Forest Firearms did a test like that.

[@joshburke4083]

A bolt action would probably fair a bit better in this test too.

[@Lapinmiez]

This is what i want. Independent tests that are realistic and unbiased. Thank you for your great work!

[@colonthree]

Tuorekelmu, Pekka.

[@DavidVining1]

In the interest of science, please do this test again with properly lubricated weapons. My M16 and M60 were always lubricated and never failed to work due to coastal sand or highlands red clay dust contamination. as a door gunner, we constantly generated clouds of dust and or sand going into and out of landing zones.

[@Jeapify]

Yeah, unless you're one of the high speed low drag types, you lube your weapon before you head out. Institutional momentum says so.

[@abk4202020]

Door gunners got,balls of steal or should I say lead

[@Quartzkensai]

Frankly it’s better they run without lube as each type of firearm requires different types, levels and locations of lube to be considered “proper” which would no doubt cause people to cry foul for not being fair, in this way each platform gets the best chance possible ( as there is nothing to hold on to the dust and it is consistent between platforms) on the test, afterall, they aren’t ACTIVELY trying to make the rifles fail, rather they want to see which platforms perform better in each situation.

[@Karelwolfpup]

curious if, being the doorgunner and thus half hanging out a chopper that's in motion, might not remedy that problem a compared to a footslogger or ground vehicle mounted trooper in the same conditions.

[@ab5olut3zero95]

Fair points, but when Vining said "properly lubricated" the Army standard is no carbon residue remaining on the weapon internals with a light coat of CLP/oil on all working surfaces. IMO this would begin to gum up the weapon. It may not truly fail, but it would not help its chances in any way. Moon dust didn't do my tanks or mounted machine guns any good at NTC last year and we maintain them religiously.

[@joshuapowell5047]

This just in: Popular and well developed service rifles tend to work. People's minds are collectively blown. Love you guys :^)

[@ericn7677]

Yes, they wouldn't be major military firearms in many countries for long if they were prone to failure. Unless it was the UK.

[@hydrochoerus446]

Eric N L85A1 noises

[@yeer1888]

I was counting the days for this video. 👍

[@InrangeTv]

Editing. It's work.

[@jakewolf079]

No wonder the US is still using this thing

[@iDatedMyPizza]

You forgot to register that plastic bag to the ATF with a form 2.

[@dmitryarkadeyevich7976]

I always love the "its not full auto it's not real" in every experience ive had in the military ive never fired full auto unless it was blanks

[@ArnoSchmidt70]

The Kübelwagen is running again! Nice!

[@Ecosse57]

vw thing.

[@rogerj412]

When wasn't it running? I'd love to have a Kubelwagen, it'd go great with my TDI Jetta Sportwagen.

[@TOXIC_BONES]

I m russian and i think that the ak is a perfect gun for every situations And i also think that the ar is a perfect gun for every situations

[@gretah3969]

Another problem with the AR design and military issue M16s and M4s is the that the buttstock is attached to the lower receiver and the barrel to the upper, and the upper and lower are attached to each other by steel pins going through aluminum. Due to age, hard treatment, and bayonet/buttstroke drills, the pin holes in the upper and lower receivers get wallowed out, leading to a sloppy fit between the upper and lower. In Afghanistan, I had a fairly new M16A4 but it already had quite a bit of slop between the upper and lower that let moondust in. The outside of the rifle could be spotless but I'd pop the rear pin and the bolt carrier and inside of the receiver would be coated with a decent amount of sand.

[@jonnydodger9780]

I'd like to see an L85A2/A3 dust test... It'd probably die but it'd be interesting to see.

[@Mjk10957]

I don't think it would i never had a issue with it in iraq. The A2 is not the A1 its like saying the current m16/m4 will jam because the original m16 in the 1960 was prone to jamming before the improvements the only reason a sa80 A2 will jam is because either the mag is damaged or the soldier has been slack with his or her cleaning drills.

[@Sableagle]

In the '90s with the A1, standard practice was to clean it beautifully, put it in a dustbin liner, roll it up, tape it closed and put it in a locker. If it was needed, it could be pulled out through the side of the bag. I heard from one man that the only reason his L85 would be needed would be if he ran out of ammo for his AK-whatever-he-found.

[@weasle2904]

@@Mjk10957 the L85A2 uses the same receiver and bolt design, which would be responsible for how ingress and mud would jam the firearm. As for your uninformed M16 comment, that was due to powder loads being changed by the Ordnance company in a total moment of negligence and intentional sabotage, as they hated the M16 and wanted to force the military to stick with the M14

[@davidmurphy8364]

I'd give you a bazillion thumbs up purely for M4gery😂😂😂

[@InGratitudeIam]

I knew members of Sapper squads in Afghanistan who saw combat on a regular basis. They cleaned their guns, on average, every 2 weeks and lived to talk about it.

[@545x39Rat]

I think a K98K and a SMLE dust test would be interesting to see

[@SgtKOnyx]

Bloke and InRange colab?

[@peregrine3845]

@@SgtKOnyx screw Bloke

[@SgtKOnyx]

@@peregrine3845 I see you feel strongly about this

[@Coalzak]

Why not just throw an 03-A3 and a 91/30 into the same mix too?

[@kracerx]

Worth noting the the sand was kicked into the AK with dust cover open, bolt closed. With the AR, dust cover open, bolt locked open. So the AR actually had it worse for that last part. Impressive results from both guns.

[@DmitriyLaktyushkin]

Depends on how realistic you want to be. Ar locks open and dust cover is only closed in transit so the test simulates a GI eating dirt while reloading. For ak dust cover is pretty much always closed and most aks do not lock open on last round.

[@ericn7677]

@@DmitriyLaktyushkin Eating dirt and kicking it full of said dirt. Not going to happen.

[@dELTA13579111315]

@@ericn7677 my reasoning for that was maybe a recreation of dirt being tossed around by impacting rounds?

[@thephoenix756]

It's also worth noting that the AK has a huge opening on the side of the receiver, so it was just as exposed.

[@muddyhotdog4103]

@@thephoenix756 safety works as a dust cover in a sense. But either way, when the ak's bolt is closed its chamber is mostly protected, vs the ar15 having the bolt and chamber open.

[@proteus2103]

I see you have the standard issue Spongebob duct tape for this test. Nice job!

[@MatchBreakers]

"Didn't need the forward assist" Ian looking smug... "Click"

[@joshr5390]

after 2 deployments with an m4, I FULLY trust the system. Other than the beat up old m16's we had in TRADOC, i've only ever had 1 malfunction with an m4 in 10 years, and it was a strange fluke of a trigger not resetting once. I just racked the charging handle once and never had another problem. This video also makes the case for dry types of lube. I use hornady one shot because it has crazy corrosion protection and quickly dries into a dry lube. DI systems will blow a lot of junk out of the action if there isn't wet lube keeping all the dust in.

[@RaftGuidePhil]

I think that over lubrication could cause malfunctions in conditions like that. That fine dust mixed with CLP would create a gritty paste. Chuck Pressburg said when he was overseas in super sandy environments he would carry his rifle dry. He would also carry a small bottle of lube on his kit and if he knew he was going to be in a extended fire fight, he would apply lube the first chance he could.

[@ssspencerjr]

@@joshuab7737 Only where it needs it makes a huge difference.

[@nothim7321]

No idea who chuck pressburg is, but sounds about right, I did the same. Or dry lube (graphite=carbon)

[@daa3417]

I’ve never liked hearing people say that lube “attracts” grit and debris. There’s no force of attraction (static or anything else) at play, the only effect/interaction of the lube is that it holds debris preventing them from being blown off. In the end it’s the same but I guess it’s like when someone says “tolerances” when they mean clearances. I’d like to see a real test to quantify the effects wet lube has on gritty guns, I would guess that the results won’t be the forgone conclusion most commonly accept. After all it doesn’t stop being lube just because it’s contaminated with grit unless the entirety of the lube is absorbed by the debris it would still provide lubricity, and possibly when heated by the firing of the gun it would flow away (downward by gravity) taking the grit with it. I’m not simply being pedantic, the “dust magnet” idea is an commonly held and repeated concept testing it’s validity would make for a good video.

[@storpheusmorpheus]

@@joshuab7737 Chuck was never in Delta or Special Forces, he was in the 75th Ranger Regiment. www.opdsource.com/Presscheck-s/178.htm

[@hornmonk3zit]

Never been in a desert but I have literally never lubed my ARs. As long as its got good gas rings and the carrier isn't gummed up with carbon buildup it'll keep on running. It really doesn't need any lube at all, lube is for things that see a lot of friction and heat and the only part in a gun that sees a lot of friction is the barrel and lube won't help you there at all. Keep your gun clean and it'll keep shooting.

[@SlowrideSteve]

If you want it to fail, give it to an Afghan.

[@goosecouple]

Joke Bidet 2021: "Make Taliban Great Again." $85 Billion worth of weapons.

[@jonlong2663]

Last deployment to Iraq I was in dusty LZ on almost every mission, and out on patrol for days on end. I always ran dry (but pre lubed with Rem Oil) which seems to give it a dry smooth operation.

[@Rake3577]

Look up Fajr al Joroud, its an operation launched by the lebanese army in the summer of 2017 to take back 120 square kilometers of barren dusty mountains from isis, their m4s and m16s worked fine

[@inakasumi4913]

In your previous test you put dust on AK with bolt closed but in this video you put dust on AR with bolt open, that's unfair.

[@davidresetarits5616]

Inaka Sumi The magwell was open on both, so that doesn't make a great differense, but I get your point.

[@davidresetarits5616]

*difference, holy cow!

[@ranchurdhimster4955]

Is the sponge Bob tape an homage to carnickcon? The greatest firearm channel that was ripped away from us

[@aurorawhorealis]

If you ever need some Dugan in your life there's a youtube channel called "Carnick Con Archive" with all the videos still

[@The666opal111]

forsenCD

[@LocatingGoku]

I just realized... This means throwing your m4 on the sand to get some of it stuck on your gun is a valid form of applying camo to it since it's gonna work fine as long as no holes are open.

[@themostokaypersonever84]

5:20 DUSTY ROAD, TAKE ME HOME TO THE PLACE I BELONG!

[@Hanzer-ns5bh]

_-West Virginia-_ _ARIZONAAAA_

[@sfsaviation]

this made me tear up, those tears of course immediately dried of from the 120 degrees of freedom unit

[@notbadsince97]

Almost heaven, Arizonaaa Snow Caped Mountains, Colorado River Life is old there, older than the cactis Younger than the mountains, growin' like a breeze Dusty roads, take me home To the place I belong Arizonaaa, desert mama Take me home, dusty roads All my memories gather 'round her Miner's lady, stranger to blue water Dark and dusty, painted on the sky Misty taste of mezcal, teardrop in my eye Dusty roads, take me home To the place I belong Arizonaaa, desert mama Take me home, dusty roads I hear her voice in the mornin' hour, she calls me The radio reminds me of my home far away Drivin' down the road, I get a feelin' That I should've been home yesterday, yesterday Dusty roads, take me home To the place I belong Arizonaaa, desert mama Take me home, dusty roads Dusty roads, take me home To the place I belong Arizonaaa, dusty mama Take me home, country roads Take me home, (down) country roads Take me home, (down) country roads The second stanza works really well for Arizona lol

[@bestneverdie]

Laughs in Eugene stoner

[@tmar697]

FAL. Since IDF dropped the FAL for the Galil, I'd love to see how it actually performs or fails in moondust

[@andreahighsides7756]

IIRC they dropped it specifically because it didn’t function well in sand. Testing a G3 would be very interesting!

[@tmar697]

@@andreahighsides7756 yeah and this is a test of fine sand

[@paleosteveo3501]

IDF special episode?! K98, FAL, Galil?

[@lifepolicy]

AK bolt closed and AR bolt open in your final kick dust test. Prevents dust do get into the chamber etc. Guess thats y the AR stopped working and the AK was still running.

[@thephoenix756]

The AK bolt can't be held open because it doesn't have a bolt hold open device.

[@lifepolicy]

@@thephoenix756 but you can close the bolt on an Ar15.

[@Jackal19x]

Tons and tons of people (including myself in the past) suffer from the outdated stigma that ARs are unreliable; I'll trust my life with a good AR any day.

[@BeefaloBart]

MilSpec Issue Spongebob 100 mph tape. Love it.

[@kosmic5476]

Totally wasn’t expected Gun Jesus when I clicked on this video. Nice seeing ya from Forgotten Weapons :)

[@jeffdavis7616]

This matched my real life findings. My coyote calling rifle is a post ban heavy barrel (.950) AR15. We move around a ton on ATVs and dust is a real stopper of even bolt action rifles. I run my guns dry and carry a can of compressed air in my quad bag. Every time we stop to do a stand I blow out my rifle and shotgun. Oil has aways been our biggest enemy with dust.

[@leathery420]

Just for shits and giggles I'd like to see more open guns like say the M1 garand/M14 or SKS rifles do. Maybe some newer rifles like the Scar. AR-18 would be cool, but You'd probably need to go to Canada to fine one that the owner would be willing to strap to Karl's jeep. Then you have the problem of Canada is only dusty part of the year, and not everywhere would have the dust you are looking for.

[@idontwanttoputmyname403]

Maybe the Brownells AR-18 upper?

[@trilliamogdlocog4986]

Theres lots of videos showing the ar 15 platform is just as capable as an ak 47 people might be butt hurt but alot of cases the m4 has out ran the ak ...

[@paultreiber5597]

Had to mortar my AR today. My cheap reloaded ammunition had a round that looks like it was hit with a hammer (flattened on two sides). Cleared the stuck round and the double feed it caused ans was still able it to tag the coyote.

[@qisgod1]

Speaking from some experience, as a 10yr army afghan vet, I think its just that soldiers are taught to use unreasonable amounts of break free CLP-4 Cleaner Lubricant Preservative. It makes the dirt stick in places it probably shouldn't go, and cleaning a weapon in the field just makes it worse. Additionally the under utilization of the dust cover is definitely a factor.

[@drhhodge8243]

ARs are incredible

[@moledowhiskey1263]

It is unfair that you kick must in a closed bolt AK and an opened bolt AR

[@roberttrester4030]

It's just such a great design there's a reason were still using it to this day. Great show guys.

[@Funhaus_Ryan]

Holy crap, I wasn't expecting this series so soon. I'll have to go watch the other one as well. Can't wait to see more!

[@marine6680]

Upon rewatching this... During the dust kick test, the bolt was locked back, the AK does not lock back, so the AK had the benefit of the chamber being protected by the bolt, the AR did not. So the test was actually worse for the AR.

[@dang0s804]

The AK literally had rocks inside and keep shooting.

[@anthonyruiz7925]

@@dang0s804 They use different cycling systems.

[@thephoenix756]

The AK has a huge opening in the side of the receiver, so it was equally exposed to the dirt.

[@marine6680]

@@thephoenix756 Not the chamber… The bolt being closed helps protect the chamber from dirt incursion. There are three important areas in a firearm that contain tighter tolerances… The chamber, locking lugs, trigger. These areas need to most protection from debris, as they will cause hard failures if they get gummed up. It doesn’t take much dirt to cause big issues if it gets into the chamber. If you watch several test such as this one, the chamber getting dirty and preventing extraction of the casing is the leading cause of failures. Even an AK will choke hard if grit gets into the chamber. It is a bit more tolerant though, as steel cased ammo is the most common and a little less susceptible to the grit, as the steel is harder than brass. So the grit doesn’t dig into it as much.

[@thephoenix756]

@@marine6680 Fair point, mate.

[@guyfox1206]

I did alot of convoy work when I was deployed, this is a very realistic test.

[@ninjanoob911]

Any plans to try out delayed roller guns that did so well on the original mud tests?

[@facundocorradini]

ARs are far more reliable than people give them credit for, AKs are far more accurate than people give them credit for. That being said, this test shows exactly why the AK "lacks" a bolt hold open device. Dirt getting into the chamber is the only dirt that would put an AR, an AK, or any other gun out of service. Sure, when we're at the range doing those fancy speed reloads in 1 second the bolt hold open / release seems like an obvious choice, but actual combat footage shows that combat reloads usually takes something more like 1 minute and lots of dragging the gun in the dirt, because FIBSA is a very real thing.

[@jamesbarca7229]

You didn't have the bolt locked open when you kicked the dirt into the AK. Why did you have it locked to the rear on the AR? Seems a little unfair.

[@dang0s804]

The AK literally had rocks inside.

[@thephoenix756]

The AK does not have a bolt locked function.

[@sixoffive]

10:59 Maybe the difference in the fire control group, civilian semi only vs military select fire (full auto) has something to do with it. Semi auto only having less moving parts and fewer components to trap dirt.

[@itsnodawayitustabe5654]

Military ammo is poop and mags in supply circulation are salt shakers half the time.

[@hornmonk3zit]

Military ammo is about as reliable as ammo gets, its meant to work every time and accuracy comes second. The mags are definitely trash, aluminum AR mags are all originally designed to be disposable after a single use and all they've done is tweak a few things in the design over the years to get them to last longer. A purpose built mag for longevity and reliability like the old steel HK mags are a much better choice for the military since they always refuse to scrap things they don't need unless they get told they'll get brand spanking new toys if they "forget" to properly rig up drop chutes in air exercises like they do with HMMVs a lot.

[@811brian]

Perhaps what might be a big killer for the ar platform is when you try to operate it under dusty conditions _when it’s lubricated_. This is a big problem in places like saw mills where them forklifts are operating with all of that sawdust getting into the chains and mast rails. It’s considered best to avoid spraying any kind of lubricant on them to avoid further attracting the dust and allowing rollers and what not to get clogged up. I feel that a similar outcome would occur if the rifle in this video _was_ lubricated properly.

[@oldblindy5625]

When do we get a video of the tactical forward arrow on the magwell. This needs a video explaining the tactical applications of the arrow.

[@andrewrife6253]

After the first failure from being buried with the bolt open someone, somewhere just said "SEE!?!?! THEY ARE UNRELIABLE TURDS".....

[@immikeurnot]

"The AK platform is CLEARLY better and this proves it!" "We should go back to the M14, which was the last good rifle the US had!" God, I can hear it in my head.

[@Romanov117]

The irony is that: They never fired an AR Rifle They never even tested the AR platform with the AK Rifle They never owned an AR Rifle.

[@somescrub2276]

Looking Forward to the Type 38 test.

[@Kraakesolv]

If you are interested in the photo of the Norwegian soldier with his thumb over the ejection port, check out kzbin.info/www/bejne/aKWwiGSjZbtsb6c

[@neolindholm7289]

Could you please link the video of the Swedish special forces with the g3? I haven't been able to find it.

[@NoblesTx]

Neo Lindholm Neo Lindholm kzbin.info/www/bejne/m4rHoHpqlK2gr8U 5:00 minute mark. have a good one 👋🏻

[@Freemyland]

It's not from a video, it's just a picture of a Norwegian Special Forces with a Norwegian Ag3-F2 version: i.imgur.com/9F2Nfki.jpg

[@FirstDagger]

Image is in the G3 Mud Test kzbin.info/www/bejne/m4rHoHpqlK2gr8U

[@felixh2786]

I think it's in the AK dust test.

[@Kraakesolv]

Norwegian soldier kzbin.info/www/bejne/aKWwiGSjZbtsb6c

[@Burt0351]

The reason is people will use too much lube and than never clean their weapon and after a while the moon dust mixed with excess lube can lead to malfunctions.

[@foleymaj]

Did much better than I thought it would

[@JG54206]

Didn’t know you can just say fuck it to the buffer detent if you had too. Handy tip I guess.

[@StrangerOman]

Not as spectacular as mud tests, but a very great tests. Thanks for driving to moon and back for this tests. ;)

[@snafuthebrave1922]

One thing people forget to consider... is the fact the quality of the gun, if it's Colt, it's probably going to jam like hell.

[@nickneider3428]

Did you guys realize the bolt was open on the AR unlike the AK?

[@davet231]

No it wasn't

[@crazyfvck]

@Nick Neider Yeah I realized that too. I think the AK would have done worse if the bolt was all the way open like that.

[@davet231]

Look again both bolts were in battery

[@crazyfvck]

@@davet231 No, YOU look again. The bolt on the AR is CLEARLY locked open when Ian is kicking sand all over it. He even blows through the ejection port to try and get some of the sand out. When they did that to the AK, they had the bolt closed. Nick Neider's comment was correct.

[@davet231]

crazyfvck I stand corrected I was looking at the the second on vehicle test.

[@7N6ballistics]

US Army conducted an extreme dust test several years ago and found that generous amounts of CLP increased reliabity significantly. TM has been updated to reflect this. You guys need to update your protocol if your trying to give the rifles the best chance of success. This is actually a worst case...

[@Quartzkensai]

the counter to that would be, how should they treat the AK? I mean hell just LOOK at their mud test comments, people cry foul on them for not using/using certain parts, frames and other things. In this case ALL of the platforms they're using is on an even playing field (no lube of any sort to bind to the dust and grit, no issues with using/not using certain lubes, having too much/little. in turn we see the platform, as a whole where it is strong, and where it is weak. overall it shows that if you treat your AR/AK well, it'll run; Treat them poorly and well... we've seen what happens to both platforms.

[@KATAKOTO69]

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE VZ-52!

[@InrangeTv]

That thing sucks just sitting in the closet not being fired.

[@gabrielmalaguti5512]

@@InrangeTv 😂

[@andrewsanford2020]

Fucking roasted.

[@709badwolf]

@InRangeTV lol,,,lol,,,lol good answer!

[@MarvinCZ]

I would love to see the vz 58, though.

[@goodlandhotel7533]

The bolt was open on the AR when they kicked dust on the gun but was closed on the AK?

[@tengu190]

This should be really easy for the FS2000, lol.

[@Hanzer-ns5bh]

I really wanna see some oddball Euro space rifles get dusted. The G36, FAMAS, L85, F2000, Radom, VHS, FNC, RK95, ARX160, SCAR 16, BREN, M76/M82... And that's before you get into the Eastern space guns!

[@czwarty7878]

@@Hanzer-ns5bh I can understand that F2000, FAMAS and ARX might be "oddball" for some, but how are G36, FNC, SCAR, RK95 etc oddball? They're very conventional designs

[@Hanzer-ns5bh]

@@czwarty7878 I'm just used to having seen these as a kid in space movies and FUTURE SOLDIER FULL SPECTRUM OPERATOR programs on the Military Channel, back when that was still a thing. I guess I'm just a relic of the '90s. Really, anything that isn't a direct AR or AK design copy is refreshing. That's partly why I love this channel so much.

[@robertdole5391]

You need to have the rifles in the BACK of the vehicle. WAY more dust settles in the back of the vehicle than on the hood. I rode in back of HMMWV in Afghanistan daily back in 2005-06 and was covered in so much dust that my teeth had mud on them. I have pics and everything.

[@shahielharilal6710]

Did you run your weapons dry or oiled in Afghanistan?

[@littlepolarbears]

its not even reliability that i take into question when i think ak vs ar. the ak is simply inferior because of its weight, lack of rail space, handguard, stock, sights. sure some of those things can be changed but they will never come near an ar.

[@andreahighsides7756]

AKs seem to work much better in the third world with no maintenaince. There is an ISIS helmetcam vid where the ISIS commander had an M16 and it had several jams in two or three mags. If the rifle is going to be used by someone with an IQ below room temp an Ak is probably best btw the ISIS commander died

[@thephoenix756]

The AK-12 seems to have fixed all the problems of the AK platform; the weight of the AK-12 is 3.3 kg while the M4a1 weighs 3.01 kg, so the weight difference is negligible.

[@wubbin4days269]

The bolt was also locked to the rear when kicking dirt on it and the AK was closed. So I’m even more impressed with the AR.

[@dang0s804]

The AK it's an open system, the AR is not, so it's practically the same

[@grumples1517]

Wait...You guys kicked moondust onto and into the AR with its bolt locked back, but the AK had its bolt forward sealing up a huge opening into the chamber.

[@tigerbarr]

good point, had to go back and look

[@grumples1517]

@@austinm2980 Ugh...Really? Try for reading comprehension. I said the bolt seals up the chamber when it is closed (which it does on both the AR and the AK...and every other gun). I am aware that the AK does not have a bolt hold open device. The point I was making is that the testing should be fair where both rifles are in the same state during the tests. So since the AK bolt was closed, they should both have the bolt closed. Or rig the AK bolt to stay open during the test to match the AR's test.

[@grumples1517]

@@austinm2980 I think you are objectively wrong.

[@brandenbelland1309]

If your gonna leave the dust cover open on the m4 at least open the bolt on the ak

[@DarkKatzy013]

And still does it's job no more needs to be said lol

[@codydonoghue5082]

i hate watching these because the guns get ruined but i also like watching em because it shows whats more reliable

[@wtfronsson]

The drive part would be great with some music.

[@ChucksSEADnDEAD]

Something like this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fZPCaZWFnteHo9k

[@nickbeckwith6211]

Oh that's good!@@ChucksSEADnDEAD The "Blackhawk Down" Soundtrack or "Ride of the Valkyries would work well too.

[@unclesamuk8687]

Yes! spongebob tapes are definitely Mil Spec these days...

[@dylanwight5764]

So what is the takeaway from the AK-v-AR debate? First, the AK is more likely to fail in a _normal_ operational state when exposed to extreme mud. However, it can also be very easily and quickly remediated in the field with little more than a wash down and a rag. Second, the AR is more likely to fail in an _abnormal_ operational state when exposed to extreme dust & sand. However, both platforms are equally viable when run in a _normal_ operational state in the same sand & dust conditions. Third, both rifles are practically guaranteed to fail when run in an _abnormal_ operation state when exposed to extreme mud. This is pretty much what everybody expected. That being said, it's still worth noting that the AK will generally be the more reliable platform in _typical_ poor conditions when run with poor maintenance and poor safety. The AK doesn't mind a bit of dust in the action; the AR is more susceptible to failure with dust in the action, but is also better at keeping it out. Conclusion: Practice proper firearms safety and maintenance!

[@Quartzkensai]

this man gets it. ^

[@dylanwight5764]

@@Quartzkensai Thanks. I think that's what the fellas at InRange are trying to get across with these tests. It's mostly common sense, but the results are still very interesting to observe.

[@MarvinCZ]

I'm not so sure the AR is more susceptible to dust than the AK. The bolt was open on the AR when they kicked dust on (in) it but the AK bolt was closed in the same test.

[@dylanwight5764]

@@MarvinCZ Interesting point. Counterpoint: You can't lock back the AK's bolt anyway. The fact you _can_ with the AR is actually quite concerning... While I appreciate it assists in rapidly reloading a fresh magazine in the field, having the bolt lock open on an empty chamber with dust cover open is just inviting the sort of FOD ingress this test was addressing. This part of the test is geared to emulate a locked back rifle dropped into the dirt between reloads. The AK is still the more tolerant platform for these specific conditions under normal operation.

[@MarvinCZ]

@@dylanwight5764 Nothing prevents you from closing the bolt manually, it's quick and easy. It's only a concern in very rare circumstances that border on negligence.

[@ronkledonkanusmoncher564]

Sand has been sprinkled

[@TheShadowcompany1]

Let’s see the garand next!

[@DougsDiggers]

Oof.

[@jamesolbrisch2582]

Wish KZbin would allow me to upload photos I have a few from the invasion and shortly after of me and the guys in my section absolutely covered in moon dust.

[@lawless911sc]

Why ARE you missing the buffer detent?

[@InrangeTv]

Because they break and are not a necessary part. Explained in the WWSD series.

[@PhilosoraptorXJ]

They're also easy to lose. Once they fall off your work bench, they enter an alternate universe. You won't be seeing it again.

[@tstststs]

@@PhilosoraptorXJ Yep they go hang out with wayward rear-takedown-pin springs, near the cracks in the fabric of space-time.

[@CaptainCiph3r]

Because they are nothing but a part that can go wrong.

[@ThePerfeckted]

USA USA USA Stoner genius

[@TheGM-20XX]

I dunno years of _Vietnam_ _times_ veterans saying the M16 jams if you just even think about a dust mote must be true.

[@venator5]

The vietnamese ones ammo related.

[@TheGM-20XX]

@@venator5 I'm being facetious. hell that is why put vietnam times veteran in there...

[@ChucksSEADnDEAD]

@@venator5 it's a reference to the activist dude who's been going around telling the media he was a Recon Ranger in Vietnam for years, and was at the center of the MAGA hat smirking kid non-troversy.

[@nickbeckwith6211]

Ball propellant rather than IMR stick propellant in the ammo, specifically. Early non-chromed chambers didn't help either.

[@venator5]

@@nickbeckwith6211 Also lack of training for cleaning and cleaning equipment.

[@caleb2187]

Reminds me of a video some one did blowing air into an AR,m1a,and a mas. OH WAIT it was u guys lol. Love these vids keep it up

[@Plasma_Pistolier]

Genuinely surprised conventional knowlage suggests Mud = AR>AK Sand = AK>AR Id say the Ak handled it better but still. All in all, another solid informative vid from inrangetv. 👍

[@sheevpalpatine80]

Makes sense. The AR is better at keeping grit out of the action, but the AK seems to tolerate more grit once it gets in the action, and fine dust is harder to keep out than mud.

[@QwertyBoredom122]

@@joshuab7737 That an objective lie: Dust cover open worked fine kzbin.info/www/bejne/iWbTmYGdj9iUiMk And unlike the AR they didn't blow into the AK before trying to chamber the first round.

[@nickneider3428]

Exactly, bolt open vs closed

[@jasonscott8844]

Glad to see you kept the dust out before you put dust in it. Lol

[@98sobi]

The one thing I hate about some test videos is they get it so obviously dirty and won’t try to make it shootable as if the soldier wouldn’t try anything to make it run. I like that y’all shake the gun at least

[@Sprice93USAF]

The bolt was closed on the ak when you kicked dust on it so I think it would have been much more favorable for the ar if the bolt was also closed when you kicked dust in it. I’m surprised it functioned as well as it did after the dust jump in.

[@muddyhotdog4103]

I noticed that too.. which is even more impressive that the ar15 did so well with its bolt locked back vs the ak47(akm) having its bolt closed.

[@MyLonewolf25]

I’d like to see this done with everything drowned in oil

[@MarvinCZ]

Sadist!

[@christophergolias3610]

I feel like you should have converse high tops on when you kick the dirt.

[@TheDaywalkersDad]

I remember reading something written by a Marine (Stryker unit?) about the Iraq invasion of 2003. The Marine wrote about the constant weapon maintenance done by Marines during the invasion, and seemed surprised that the Army units he observed did not do the same. He commented on the state of the soldiers weapons that they passed on the road, and the fact that no one was working on filthy weapons. Anyway, I'm sure that everyone has read the story of Jessica Lynch's unit and how their weapons jammed during the ambush due to a sandstorm. I have no doubt that constant weapon maintenance and protection from dust is a must in a sandy environment.

[@rttakezo2000]

every cell in my body began to scream when I saw Ian throw the rifle on the ground and begin kicking sand into it?