AR15-Obsessed Dork Debunks Wendigoon's AR15 Video

I put together my response to Wendigoon's AR15 history video, which I believe gets a lot wrong - including it's central thesis.
TLDW, the Army did stall and obstruct the AR15's adoption, but they had good reasons to do so. DOD rushed the adoption of the rifle, and the had good reasons to do so. The rifle did have problems early on as all rifles do. However, these happenings do not support a narrative of "sabotage", and really don't even paint a cohesive picture of negligence.
I use the M16 Review Panel's report and The Black Rifle to break down the thesis, and show why the evidence Wendigoon presents for this thesis falls into one of two buckets: either misunderstanding the details to the point of being wrong, or being outright wrong.
Links to these documents: odysee.com/THE_BLACK_RIFLE_M1...
thecoltar15resource.com/repor...
Long story short, I felt compelled to make this response because I've spent enough time researching this stuff that I feel obliged to fight the spread of this sort of fuddlore misunderstanding of the AR15's history as much as possible. Hopefully, the video strikes you as going beyond simply nitpicking small details (I made that video too, it was four hours long,, you can watch it here: • The Rat Cut ), and instead feels like an address of the core misunderstanding found in Wendigoon's presentation.
A little more context/thoughts that didn't make it into the video are listed here: x.com/NaviGoBoom/status/18089...

[@LibertarianMexican]

This is how you correct Wendigoon and not like how that other guy did.

[@Thisisausername556]

That guy didn’t just not correct Wendigoon, he fully corrected himself right out of existence on any social media platform XD

[@LibertarianMexican]

@@Thisisausername556 is his channel still private?

[@fastestfail2645]

The other guy was a communist that was just a mad soy boy. This guy was politely correcting wendigoon

[@F_lippy]

In Praise of Shadows, his channel is still up but his video shitting on Wendigoon “Bad Conservative Horror Movies” is only available in a reupload

[@CarlosPEnis]

I think that other guy had to make that video to join whatever pedo club he's been trying to get into. Like a gang initiation

[@Hunting4knowledge]

Knowledge of the Autistic Rifle -15 is a spectrum

[@pablowentscobar]

Very good, many such cases.

[@xaagripha7326]

well that doesn't say much, thats saying its simple and unbelievably strong.

[@dorjedriftwood2731]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/goSxYpiLpbSciqcsi=UeL0xhcx5C0OEbgl Just a small comment on the claim that people complaining about hitting guys and them getting back up isn’t just a story.

[@Tunkkis]

​@@dorjedriftwood2731 _Can_ it happen? Sure. Is it what happened most of the time? Very doubtful.

[@biobeast1179]

Why didn't the army just adopt the draco??

[@IvanPrintsGuns]

WMDs in Vietnam would have got Russia to get involved directly

[@Calvin_Coolage]

They couldn't decide between the Draco or Glocks wit da switch, so they adopted neither.

[@guapstalker]

@@Calvin_Coolage This is true

[@Schizohandlers]

Why not hipoints?

[@LAHFaust]

Obviously it's because they couldn't get VZ Grips for them

[@prettyboyjeremy]

Ah, yes, over an hour of pure gun autism I love it

[@wantnotwant]

The AR15 stands for assault rifle 15 (15 for how many bullets it can hold) it was made by Call of Duty to sell their 4th game. Eugene Stoner, named as such over his famous love for weed- thought of it in 2010 when he was like "yo these quickscopers suck- I need a junk 3 burst to counter that'll be quickly replaced by the AUG, M4, or Famas"

[@odrs]

yes

[@life_of_riley88]

I think I read this in a Jeff Cooper book, straight facts.

[@VladimirGitcherocksoff]

😂🤣

[@timzy11ful]

please edit your comment to 5th game. i am sorry.

[@Appalachia_Ape]

​@@life_of_riley88 kEeLoLoGy b0rThEr

[@rflett5797]

Is it ok to tell people that the forward assist is like the pump on a bb gun and the more times you press the power up button the faster the bullets will go? Asking for a friend.

[@ChucksSEADnDEAD]

Not only ok but advised.

[@gravemindpenis]

Tell em the bullet has more stopping power and damge too

[@pablowentscobar]

Yes, you should tell people exactly what it was designed to do.

[@MajikalCowpoke]

The Afghans call it the Sniper button

[@daviddrago9360]

I though it was the level up button

[@geodkyt]

Slight quibble on the cleaning kit aspect. No, the Army didn't have "M16 specific cleaning kits" originally, and they didn't (originally) have butt traps for cleaning kits, either. So the rifles *were* shipped to troops without cleaning kits. And it was the first standard issue rifle in *70 years* that couldn't (in a pinch) use the cleaning kit of the previous rifle, because it wasn't .30 caliber. That means nobody was used to thinking, "Oh, shit, we need to make sure each new rifle gets a cleaning kit shipped with it!" *However* ... the proper cleaning brushes, rods, and cleaning patches were *already in inventory* , complete with NSN codes that any supply sergeant could order at will. *If* the supply guys knew the proper numbers (reading through a 1960s NSN catalog blindly to get the *correct* stuff not really being a reliable way to do it). Remember, the Army had been using .22LR training rifles for a *long* time by this point - and unless the chamber is actually rusty, you don't really need a chamber brush - but you do need a rod, brush, and patch holder that fits the bore (you can cut .30 patches in half and use them - that's generally what we used in the 1980s because it was easier to have everyone carry .30 patches so the *M60* always had cleaning patches.) Which comes to the Colt tech teams, which would come out to your unit (even in Vietnam) and spend a day or so on "train the trainer" and teach NCOs and supply clerks how to maintain and support the rifle beyond how to order more ammo. The NCOs would then reach the troops how to do operator level stuff, and the armored and supply sergeants would know how to do their part, including having a cheat sheet of the proper NSN codes for all the supply needs (spare parts, *cleaning supplies* , etc.) Studies of units that *did* take advantage of the offered traveling tech support teams *did not* report the issues that drove the Icord hearings. Nor did those troops believe the rifles were "self cleaning", because they *knew* how to clean them and had cleaning supplies, because *they had been trained* . Special Forces units (even those that didn't call in the tech teams) didn't have problems, because even without tech support, the SF Light Weapons Sergeants (minimum of two of them in every 12 man ODA, and usually at least four when you count cross training) could figure it out and damned well *knew* the rifles would need to be cleaned, and figured out how to get the right cleaning supplies. You know which units *did* report major reliability issues in Vietnam? The units whose commanders decided they didn't need to call in civilian tech support teams (who were manufacturer reps, remember), and didn't want to "waste" a day or so of training time with "civilians" underfoot. And those are the *same* units where troops though the rifle was "self cleaning" ("Because its all aluminum, right?" while possibly remembering reading that Colt and Armalite had boasted the *gas tubes* didn't need to be cleaned - which is true - while forgetting that they were only discussing the gas tube, not the whole rifle). And when I enlisted in 1987, I was *still* seeing Fuddlore cleaning myths about the M16 kicking around from these undertrained units in Vietnam circulating via Rumor Control over beers in the NCO Club. Further reinforced by Fuddlore kicking around from Ye Olde Corrosive Ammo Days, and armorers inspecting M16s as if they were M1903 Springfields issued with bore cleaner solvent and firing corrosive ammo. It was so bad they had to put a line in the operator and armorer's manuals to say, "Quit trying to white glove the rifles! If it will *pass* a white glove, they didn't clean it correctly, and it's not lubricated correctly!"

[@IvanPrintsGuns]

I hope I didn't mispeak and say M16 specific kits existed initially - they didn't, but cleaning kits that would work did exist, as you point out.

[@danielwatters1203]

Colt had proposed a trapdoor buttstock in late 1963. The USAF didn't see a need for it from their experience so far with the 601 and 602. There were additional. TCC objections over the cost, and the potential delay for delivery of the new 603 and 604.

[@jl6569]

Gotta appreciate the guys who lived it.

[@dorjedriftwood2731]

Many modern AR users a huge amount brag about how they literally never clean their Ars Crome lined ARs because the gas essentially blows the entire chamber out really legitimately do clean themselves, can get fouled but the violence of the gas from flowing into the chamber can clear snow out of the gun easily and even dust and mud out. Crs firearms proved this that AR 15s are actually more capable of dealing with harsh conditions because the gas enters the chamber due to the gas key interchange. Where the gas In piston gun he gas stays in the piston and doesn’t back flow directly into chamber to the degree that ARs uniquely do. I am not autistic about this things I’m not lying but tell me how much I am wrong all you want all you want.

[@gpheonix1]

@@IvanPrintsGuns at this point should we bother watching wendigoon's video? is there any useful info to grab from his video? Not asking because I'm lazy, j-just asking because I'm on your side.

[@clintbeastwood3245]

I WANT THE 4 HOURS! WE WANT THE 4 HOURS!

[@parzavaal5335]

Seconded

[@chrishertrich8447]

​@@parzavaal5335Thirded

[@robertrabensohn3329]

#releasetheratcut

[@E46_wagonlover]

4 hour cut 4 HOUR CUT

[@Aaron-fh6hd]

I dont. I just read the description and called it good.

[@xxkairzzxx1994]

You are wrong, the army tried to sabotage the m16 because they wanted to implement the gold scar as it 31 dmg instead of 28. Check your sources buddy.

[@luanthomewagner187]

True

[@V3RTIGO222]

That was pre patch though, they updated the damage to 30 and went with the M4 with nude anime girls on it, 50 round drums, and the mega dong foregrip

[@LackLusterMedia]

We want the 4 hour version, and we want it NOW!

[@RockSeller01]

Ayo watcha doing here?

[@littlelittlelincoln]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/h2Oxm3Vjq8ipaacsi=AgP2mgAd5P6jXVZ_

[@Duran-2a]

i didnt know u were cool like that

[@bruceyyyyy]

#releasethefourhourcut

[@robertrabensohn3329]

#releasetheratcut

[@littlelittlelincoln]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/h2Oxm3Vjq8ipaacsi=AgP2mgAd5P6jXVZ_

[@geodkyt]

And anyone who thinks the M16 had an especially bad initial start should look at all the engineering changes the M1 Garand (which had ten years of development before adoption) implemented between adoption and the US entering WWII, meaning they could be integrated into production *prior* to US troops taking them into battle in large numbers. Hell, the basis of the entire gas system were changed, from being a Bang gas trap to a gas port design (a decidedly non-trivial change). Or they could look at the reliability issues with the M1 and M2 Carbines. We would *never* acceot the malfunction rates the Army thought were fine with the M1 Carbine. Note the M1 Carbine really was a rush project, too.

[@Appalachia_Ape]

The failure rates and accuracy requirement will blow your mind the first time you read about them.

[@theophileification]

yeah the Germans get a lot of shit for being so stuborn with the Bang system on the G41 Mauser and Walther before they stopped being weirdos and went with the G43. While at the same time, it is often overlooked that the Americans almost did the same mistake. And if they had been under the same dire circumstancees as the Germans, maybe they would have.

[@tedarcher9120]

M1 was also sabotaged by the army who wanted their 3006 big boy bullet instead of tiny 280 it was designed for

[@xX_Grognak_Xx]

I'M interested in a 4 hour video!

[@WHO-xi4zp]

Calling out Wendigoon and saying gun jesus is wrong. The redditors are gonna have their wife's boyfriends call you a bad word

[@Calvin_Coolage]

I love when e-celeb fanboys assume their e-celeb's ego is as fragile as theirs' so they have to leap to their defense. Thankfully I've seem very little of that on this video's comments.

[@flopus7]

I'll go further and say GT is not very knowledgeable about guns and Small Arms Solutions propagates fudd lore at times.

[@spets4265]

I go to SAS for his knowledge of working at Colt, and not much else tbqh.

[@Dirtysouth210210]

Nice pfp

[@2Potates]

​@@flopus7I've come to realize he's kind of a shill more than anything.

[@BigPhilsSaws]

Let's ask Rittenhouse if he wanted a forward assist on his AR-15.

[@SmallArmsSolutions]

LOL😂

[@timberfallingcouple]

​@SmallArmsSolutions been watching your content for years. Thanks for doing the work you do for us.

[@theunofficialresults231]

Yeah, that scenario could have gone either way. I'm of the Clint Smith school of thought, if a round doesn't want to chamber, what sense does it make to try and jam it in farther? (not blaming the round specifically in this case, just generally in instances of why a round won't chamber) Get that round out if the firearm. Usually that makes clearing the jammed round more difficult. Does it take significantly less time to hit the forward assist than rack a new round? Probably depends on which way you train.

[@themightycrixus1131]

I had a jam one time that would have never gotten unstuck without a FA on my rifle. I will always have one on mine for sure.

[@jarvy251]

@@theunofficialresults231 "I'm of the Clint Smith school of thought, if a round doesn't want to chamber, what sense does it make to try and jam it in farther?" There are reasons other than a chamber obstruction that might prevent the bolt from going fully home. I had one malfunction where the solution was either 1) Rack un unknown number of perfectly good rounds out of the magazine until the buffer spring could overcome some light grit and magazine spring tension or 2) Hit the forward assist once. I went with option 2. I think Clint Smith would want you to have sufficient knowledge of your firearm to asses the state of your firearm and act accordingly, rather than relying on theoretical rules of thumb that you read on the internet. Knowing when you shouldn't AND when you SHOULD use the FA is part of that. Also no, the "thumb scallop" didn't work.

[@devendoffing7004]

I hope nobody thinks this is a hate video. My boy Wendigoon literally asked for people more knowledgeable on specifics to point out the things he got wrong Edit: also I wanna just say that just because Wendigoon got some specific stuff wrong about the AR-15 and its procurement, doesn’t mean he is wrong about all the history, which was the main focus of the video. He’s a gun enthusiast yes, but he obviously doesn’t know absolutely everything about the AR-15 platform.

[@Mate_Antal_Zoltan]

Also, enthusiast =/= expert or professional Like for example, I enjoy Battlefield 1, but that doesn't mean that I don't suck ass at the game

[@devendoffing7004]

@@Mate_Antal_Zoltan i’m aware. I said that in my initial comment.

[@timblack6422]

The best presentation I’ve seen on this issue. In the early 80s in Central West Germany - I had M16s in my armory with 4 digit serial numbers, open flash lugs, and several did not have chromed bolts - always wondered about that

[@geodkyt]

Rizz 'em with the Tism! 😂

[@Name-ot3xw]

A lot of politics started making sense to me when someone pointed out that debate club rules aren't to be right, but to provide a compelling argument while not getting mad at the other team. Not that far removed from KZbin comment thread rules.

[@javajav3004]

You’re wrong and I’m mad at you

[@Thisisausername556]

You are both false and a member of the homosexual community.

[@F_lippy]

With some chosen debates you’re purposely given a weak argument to learn how not to give ground or to admit faults to your given side of the debate because then that one little budge will skew an audience against you majorly. It’s why George W Bush has that famous sound bite of “fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice… you can’t get fooled again” because he fumbled using that idiom but knew midway he couldn’t be recorded on camera saying “shame on me” because for as insignificant as the actual context of him saying it is, it would be used against him tenfold for any other blunders or mistakes he would make later on. For as much of a clown as some people made him out to be regardless, he knew how to spin his missteps or what pitfalls to avoid. You can admit there’s issues but can’t ever admit that you are wrong.

[@doc3353]

@@F_lippy Its such a shame that debates can't simply be about what isa true and what is not true and does have to have a component that is convincing an audience that you're "winning" because debate watchers are too stupid to notice what is happening and see the fallacies.

[@mr.stotruppen8724]

Chris Bartocchi is where most of the story of the M16 being sabotaged from within comes from in the guntube sphere, but he never blames the "army" as a whole. He blames Ordnance Corps and Springfield Arsenal.

[@IvanPrintsGuns]

In order for what happened to be sabotage, you need a definition for sabotage that includes "made decisions in the past that ended up being not ideal in the present" That's just such a tortured use of the term. If you ask me, anyway.

[@Extremely_Nigh]

I watched Full Spectrum's video on the forward assist and lost alot of faith in Chris's version of the M16's history.

[@danielwatters1203]

@@mr.stotruppen8724 - One of my contributions to the Vickers Guide AR-15 Vol 1 2nd Ed was mainly written as a rebuttal to Jim Sullivan and Chris Bartocci.

[@mr.stotruppen8724]

@Extremely_Nigh His Stoner worship goes beyond rational. Man holds the SR-25 as the pinnacle of precision rifle development and refuses to acknowledge its documented shortcomings.

[@Appalachia_Ape]

​@@Extremely_Nigh same. Just watching the Eugene Stoner tapes that the Smithsonian owns will make you look at Chris and his version of events way differently.

[@buff34x]

Reasons why the forward assist is in fact a good design feature for the modern age, even if it didn't seem as important at the time. 1: Every night patrol I did in jungles and heavy woods while I was active duty, at least one person in my squad had their charging handle get caught on something pulling the bolt slightly out of battery. Quietly pushing the fa every 15-30 minutes was the easiest and stealthiest manor to ensure our rifles were ready to go. This was with a milspec T handle too, with modern extended T handles the issue is likely more frequent. 2: Circumstances that cause a reduced bolt velocity when reloading, such as minor ice build up in winter, spring wear, and while an infantryman shouldn't let his rifle get that dirty, carbon build up. In those more rare frequencies the best solution is the fa since slingshotting the bolt doesn't quite get the same force as shooting. Usually in those cases the bolt has enough velocity to cycle when fired, to get to a point you can fire it you need the bolt in battery, which you can easily do with a fa. 3: Bored troops in the field like to fidget with shit. If we weren't pushing the fa, we were slipping our safeties on and off, or finding something else to toggle. It may sound weird but if you're living outdoors for weeks at a time with no entertainment, you'll make entertainment. Pushing a fa is a far better option than the safety selector, LAM/light switches, or anything else we had on us. I've never seen a real person with more than 30 minutes of training use the fa as a jam enhancer like some people try to claim it is. The only time I've seen that is when youtubers intentionally use it wrong to prove a point because it tickles their anti-fa biases. This is also coming from someone who has several ultralight personal builds and a WWSD, but I also understand some extra ounces here and there aren't the end of the world on a fighting rifle for a professional military.

[@mookiedoeslife5999]

Was this in Vietnam?? What jungle?

[@buff34x]

@mookiedoeslife5999 No, mostly the jungles of Hawaii and jungle warfare school in Okinawa. Thick woods in Quantico and Hokkaido had the same effect. Sometimes, it would even happen while just shifting around on patrol in the dessert too, but that was far less frequent.

[@Stand_watie]

Every one of these can be fixed by racking the bolt

[@Vagabond671]

​@@buff34x Funnily enough, I encountered this same issue while playing airsoft back when I was a teen here on Guam. Charging handle would occasionally catch while moving through dense jungle and brush. Always wondered how that would effect a real rifle.

[@user-ue3kx2tl9h]

Early 90s, during basic, we had to over clean our rifles (A2s) nearly dry. 5 mile road march with a stop at the obstacle course along the way that ends at the range. Where we had to mag dump until fouling require the fa to be used (like a dozen mags). And drills helping with a rubber mallet and wood dowl to get through 3 or 4 more mags till bolt jammed/fouled so badly we couldn't continue. Mallet and dowl deployed to get bolt locked back and rodded off the range. Just to have another drill use a big wooden mallet and loads of clp to help free everything up. Pull the bolt flood of clp and rough nylon brush to craptastically clean the bolt (didn't tear bolt down, all surface cleaning) and back to the firing line. Dump three more mags just to prove we "fixed" our m16a2 rifles. Lesson, cleaned and oiled rifles work best, the fa can save your life, and even a rough cleaning and fresh clp will keep it running when you're in the shit. Oh, and tales of m16 unreliability are overblown. Never can grasp the number of people who'd pick "or death" when a military gets to the point of a choice between "use your fa, or death".

[@JohnNeo19]

This is the kinda autism I go on KZbin for

[@Smoketownedc]

Since when learning is autism 🤦‍♂️

[@hollowsteel]

Ngl, I really love videos like this because it comes off less as “Erm actually, this gun is…” and more like a dude who’s just passionate about what he loves using it as an excuse to have meaningful discussion of what he’s passionate about. It’s honestly why I love all of Zach hazard’s gun videos.

[@enraikow6109]

the non-production of the ar15 /10 beltfed lmg was the real crime in the gun's history, so i consider whoever stopped / disagreed on its existence as an act of sabotage by a criminal and their criminal organization.

[@seanjarnigan8978]

Jokes aside good job not rage farming. It'd be really easy to scree

[@Ammo-Musement]

drop that 4 hour video, I work 10 hour shifts and would listen to the entire thing

[@Arkantrol]

As someone who greatly enjoys Wendigoon's content and is a big fan of his, and even thought that (while flawed) his recent video was overall pretty decent if not entirely accurate, I must say that I greatly appreciate your correction of some of the things Wendigoon either failed to address or just got incorrect. This video is well done, and it's clear that you're not trying to attack Wendigoon's character or him personally for his mistakes, and are overall very respectful and professional while providing insightful and educational corrections, as this is information that can understandably be misinterpreted given the complexities and widely held misconceptions of the subject. I was worried upon going into this video that it would just be someone nitpicking an argument to attack Wendigoon's character, be petty and/or dramatic, or try to say that nothing Wendigoon every says can be seen as valid. I was happy to see this was not at all the case, and was instead a humble gun autist using the video to correct inaccuracies for the sake of educational insights and historical knowledge, while humoursly being well aware of their own gun-tism for what it is. Overall, much respect and appreciation, you've gained a new subscriber from me as someone who's interested in becoming a gun autist as well.

[@domd5376]

Came across this randomly not long after enjoying Wendi's take on the adoption issues. It would be awesome to get you 2 in a chatroom to discuss sources and conclusions. I'm sure he'd be down for it as well.

[@wizard_of_poz4413]

I don't think it would be much of a discussion because wendigoon is probably self aware that he's an extremely amateur gun person

[@liamsstudio_44]

@@wizard_of_poz4413factually incorrect, he’s a gun obsessed KZbinr!!!

[@RenoMay]

Now this is ARtism

[@burtdanams4426]

I used the forward assist on my AR literally last week lmao. I accidentally got a sloppy pull back on the charging handle on a mil spec charging handle that is also really wobbly and won't come back in a straight line very easily at all lol, it just gets caught on the edge if you try to just rack it with the side of your hand, and so I didn't pull it back all the way, let go, didn't close completely, smacked forward assist real quick, and bam, back in business

[@Extremely_Nigh]

Eugene Stoner is rolling in his grave over this

[@spehhhsssmarineer8961]

@@Extremely_Nigh Stone-tards are malding rn

[@GIGATHEBOT]

Its also useful for every presscheck i make ever

[@jsbehucbejizveish]

never thought the fosscad community would end up in KZbin drama. I'll be bringing the popcorn

[@admiralnelson4225]

Where have you been? There’s drama every week.

[@jsbehucbejizveish]

@@admiralnelson4225 not on KZbin very often I guess. I miss being 16 years old waiting for some KZbin drama to go down. I'll enjoy every second of this 🍿🍿

[@DynamiteBigB]

@@admiralnelson4225 dang I'm subscribed to a couple and I didn't know of any either.

[@teabulls]

drama?

[@kepofshangri-la8942]

I've been subbed to you for months and just now triggered the synapse connection to notice that you're the same guy from Fuddblasters.

[@kalui96]

Professor, will this be on the Final?

[@Sidewinder3635]

Knowing wendigoon he'll probably watch your video and be like "Yeah my bad. Thanks for clearing stuff up, man"

[@countrytodd4614]

Who knew that Ivan accidentally doxxed himself as In Praise Of Shadows all along

[@Excaliwolf2]

What does this mean?

[@wilsoncalhoun]

@Excaliwolf2 KZbinr named In Praise of Shadows attempted a hit piece on Wendigoon and a number of creators associated with him and failed very badly, mostly because most of his arguments were based on outright lies, half-truths, and his own personal dislike of the goon. He had to leave KZbin for a bit and much trolling was enjoyed by all.

[@jetabyss13]

​@@wilsoncalhounHe's also gay.

[@DynamiteBigB]

I didnt ask for an hour and a half long video from Ivan. I'll be damned if i dont sit here and watch all of it though!

[@Front-Toward-Enemy]

The unfortunate truth is that Wendigoons video has substantially more views than this one. And the information presented in his video will be the gun shop fuddlore for the foreseeable future.

[@hospitablehentai3337]

Holy shit. I've been watching fuddbusters for a couple years but never realized you had your own channel. Real glad to see

[@bigsmokeinlittlechina174]

I honest to God, heard his voice, and thought, "Is he one of the hosts from Fudd Blasters?"

[@countrytodd4614]

​@bigsmokeinlittlechina174 I was sent here from a reddit link, and as soon as I heard the voice I was like wait, and then I saw the spinning rat and I knew I was in safe hands

[@brockbergquist4593]

Thank You! There were so many times in Wendigoon’s video I was saying to myself “that’s not true” or “that’s half right” almost made this video myself

[@loganwykstra7922]

I think this is the missing chromosome I was looking for

[@Cipkanikolaj]

RELEASE THE 4H AUTISTIC RAMBLE RN!!!

[@benjaminnickerson3961]

When KZbin recommended me Wendigoon's video I figured it was either going to tell me things I already knew or would frustrate me because I haven't seen him do firearms content, so I just scrolled past...

[@bigbenis9631]

So when do we get the 4 hour cut?

[@barlowjmb]

Does this mean Mom and Dad are going to get divorced? 😢

[@Mtb9307]

Subbed. Love ya from fuddbusters, a friend told me about this video, would kill to watch a history of AR's from you.

[@monkeychife]

Ya know this video is a good example of a rule of thumb I have. If the question is government conspiracy or incompetence, it’s probably incompetence

[@Thomalini]

"Never attribute to malice what could be explained by stupidity"

[@SamSam-ih6nt]

Why not both?

[@m92quad55]

except it's not a good rule. it's naivete based cope

[@monkeychife]

@@m92quad55 I’m sure there will be a day where whatever conspiracy you believe will be proved true and we’ll all say “thanks m92quad55, you’re super awesome!”

[@m92quad55]

@@monkeychife my opinions rely on a combination of personal research and probability. Not consensus of the masses. Keep waiting on your enemies to admit their criminality though. You proved my point and you don't even realize

[@elastigogomez]

DROP THE IVAN CUT (4 HOUR REACTION)

[@littlelittlelincoln]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/h2Oxm3Vjq8ipaacsi=AgP2mgAd5P6jXVZ_

[@Aaron-fh6hd]

I do appreciate you having a summary in the description.

[@dstrkt.cs2]

Glad to see that wendigoon viewers (i am one too) aren't the type to attack someone for a fact filled debunk. We all seem to hate slander though.

[@ParaBellaActual]

Incredibly interesting, all while using primary sources! 👍🏻 For all its faults, the US Army has historically had a robust process for small arms procurement, using lots of data to drive decisions, and ultimately leading to very fine service weapons. Yes… that includes the M14 🤫

[@dickc.normous6369]

I'm sorry I couldn't hear you as I was rendered deaf by the ringing of the m14 flash hider

[@IvanPrintsGuns]

The M14 isn't fundamentally useless, but as a standard issue rifle as far past the dawn of the assault rifle as it was, it didn't ever really have a chance.

[@dickc.normous6369]

@IvanPrintsGuns it seems like a gun that's very okay on paper . In theory, it should be fine, but irl it's a pain in all the worst ways

[@nilknoc101]

I’m a simple man; I see a spinning rat, I click

[@clydecraft5642]

i love the halo rat in the corner to keep my zoomer attention

[@dfmrcv862]

Regarding the forward assist, one of my favorite comments on any video was one of Forgotten Weapons doing a mud test on a rifle that had no forward assist and wishing he had one.

[@DrSQUIRRELBOY12]

The Black Rifle and America's Rifle (formerly Black Rifle II) are excellent.

[@Supernionra]

This is what i was thinking of, Black Rifle 1 and The Great Rifle Controversy are absolutely necessary for this kind of discussion and I'm glad i own both books

[@SiCSpiT1]

"Congress Lizards" Thank you, I'm stealing this.

[@bigsmokeinlittlechina174]

We NEED the 4 hour version ASAP

[@ironraccoon3536]

Fascinating video. I'd be interested in hearing more about the M14's adoption.

[@parzavaal5335]

Agreed

[@jackmcgeachy7584]

Don't worry I had a good time Mr Ivan. Tell us a story about the Draco next.

[@burtdanams4426]

Edward Ezell was an unbelievable genius and his output was insane, and it's also insane how much of it has remained so correct, truthful, and influential. I have two of his books, and they are massive and they are DEEP and hard to read sometimes because your head just starts spinning with dates and model numbers and design changes and so on. I have Handguns of the World and Small Firearms, both of which seem kinda hard to find now? But I'm not 100% sure how scarce his books are becoming, but it's a shame that they aren't reprinting this shit like every 5 years

[@MikePainstill]

Why the hell is your video labeled as “important” in my notifications?

[@IvanPrintsGuns]

This is the most important thing that's ever happened

[@MikePainstill]

@@IvanPrintsGunsi just realised that KZbin auto subscribed me to you.

[@IvanPrintsGuns]

@@MikePainstill woah based YT

[@fuddblasters]

@@IvanPrintsGuns real

[@cpi3267]

@@fuddblasters i love when you guys talk like two teenager incels , it's very funny.

[@mshark8246]

Hey do you plan to do more videos of this style this was really good

[@onewanderingbee]

In my experience of his content, any time Wendigoon talks about weapons from a technical standpoint, it borders on fudd lore. He definitely has more facts to call on than Joe Gun Control, but really lacks depth to his knowledge, and this video shows me that its not just technicals - he did not put the work into researching his own video on a gun and was likely pulling mostly from memory and presumption. He's a good dude, I like his stuff and the Official Podcast is a good time, but man he has got to put some study in on firearms.

[@maplemaple1439]

Good points here. There's entertainers, and then there's informers. Neither are bad, but both have different things to offer. There's a bit of overlap, but wendigoon (and some other names that I dare not say) lean heavily towards the former.

[@hadrian2505]

I had a similar experience with one of his videos it was the Acali raft experiment. In short he describes the capitan of the raft and the whole experiment as unethical research that capitan tried to mold to fit his narrative. And after watching the video and a week later getting assigned a paper on unethical experiments i thought hey what better to talk about than Acali raft, but after reading capitan journals i realized his video was furthest thing form the truth. Funny how you highlighted him trying to make army look worse than it is for no reason at all, this just further confirms my opinion on him that his videos are poorly researched and made to be a type of a hit peace.

[@burtbiggum499]

I have used the forward assist after firing shit loads of blanks and the bolt got kinda sluggish. Eventually just added more lube when l got the chance and that fixed it

[@wizard_of_poz4413]

It's good if you hunt and don't want to have your bolt clang forward and be heard a mile away

[@stephennelson4954]

Inb4 Wendigoon comments on this video inviting you to tell him more.

[@americankid7782]

I think he should take a look at this video honestly. He seems like the kind of guy to genuinely consider criticism like this. I hope that that the more annoying parts of his fanbase don’t get angry about this and I would like to apologize on behalf of the people that will leave mean comments regardless.

[@lonlywolf223]

Wendigoon is very open to criticism (he closes his vid on the m16 asking for criticism) and the fanbase is on the most part very welcoming ( But also on edge i would say, bc Wendigoon got targeted a view times)

[@burtdanams4426]

Also, Just wanted to note that it is interesting that the information you report about whether or not the change of the ball ammo was notably responsible for increases in failures is actually the opposite of what Bartocci says in one of his videos. I dunno, maybe I'm misremembering this video since it's been a long time, but I'm pretty sure it's in one of the videos with titles like 'What happened to the m16's in vietnam' or some other name that has a similar sort attention grabbing style of title where he says that there wasn't a problem with the M16's, but that most of the big spike of problems was specifically because of that ammo especially not working properly in Vietnam conditions. I can't remember if he said it was mostly because of corrosion to the ammo/some of the m16's there that didn't have the better corrosion resistance parts or were so battered and old and filthy that this was also interacting especially badly with that ammo? Sorry I'm suddenly drawing a blank of what he actually concludes. I'm pretty sure he says the opposite and says that Colt did nothing wrong and this was the military being irresponsible and dishonest. Again, I'm gonna double check if anyone else is interested in finding it for me or checking yourselves I'll leave this here now. Cause I might just be misremembering him *presenting* a *false* case.

[@IvanPrintsGuns]

The introduction of ball powder did see an increase failure rate overall - but not by a very large amount. The increase in issues were resolved with the introduction of a buffer design that wasn't awful. The Panama tests (found in the report I linked in description) are a true head to head test of IMR vs ball powder - and the results speak for themselves. Ball powder wasn't ever the root cause, and that's why IMR got pulled from production and ball is still used today.

[@V3RTIGO222]

​thanks for sharing the sources and performing a logical evaluation insures of spinning a story that garners attention... I firmly believe that reaching a wide audience imposes the journalistic responsibility to do so with diligence. Unfortunately, Wendigoon has introduced a long standing distrust in the military and government as the lens through which to the story is told... this is not healthy for America or the world; people need real, factual information not blind political statements or surreptitious conclusions to be drawn for them. Wendigoon, imo trusted in the words of a political body littered with disinformation and thus failed to evaluate the facts.

[@T7_H3rbz]

I'm really glad you made this video I have constantly heard this ball versus stick powder debate pushed, along with the overall narrative of the AR-15 early adoption. Clearly I should have picked up that book a long time ago and actually investigated the sources as opposed to just listening to various "experts" from history channel to KZbin to blogs Etc..

[@IvanPrintsGuns]

My interpretations and conclusion shouldn't be taken as the only possible interpretation. It's possible to be more harsh to the Army and DOD than I feel is appropriate, but my background in gun design rough understanding of the political situation make it hard for me to even think negligence is well supported. But the facts are what they are, and it makes sabotage an impossible interpretation.

[@wil1234111]

where did the link for the 4 hr vid go?

[@user-ue3kx2tl9h]

You're confusing "the Army" did a thing, with a belief that means the entirety of the Army did a thing. A handful of people, I'll call them Croziers, did set up the M16 to fail. No, they didn't clownshoes their malfeasance, but yes it was sabotage. Subtle in form, still sabotage. The fixes were so easy that the Croziers caused the complete closure of Springfield; the opposite of what they wanted. The A1 was loved by the end of Vietnam, 90%+ loved it.

[@IvanPrintsGuns]

Can you define sabotage?

[@piratewhoisquiet]

@@IvanPrintsGuns 1. The deliberate destruction of property or obstruction of normal operations, as by civilians or enemy agents in a time of war. 2. The deliberate attempt to damage, destroy, or hinder a cause or activity. Is favoritism not deliberate? Did it not hinder the cause of equipping US soldiers with a modern weapon system? I'm seventeen minutes in and you've just said "In full context I don't think you can establish a broad scale picture of incompetence... there's not broad level incompetence, certainly not broad level malevolence you would need to establish this to be sabotage" but neither malevolence nor broadness of such is necessary to meet the standard definition of sabotage. JSYK I love your work and Wendy's and I think you are both doing good on this, but I don't think Wendy's vid was as slanted as you're giving the impression of so far, and I do think your response might also be slanted just in the opposite direction. I haven't seen it all, and I'm not even saying it's a bad thing, I think between the two of you we the viewer are blessed with both sides of this dispute. Keep up the good work Ivan!

[@IvanPrintsGuns]

There's no evidence of sabotage presented, which is a higher bar than malevolence or incompetence, both of which weren't really evidenced (at least not without the omission of facts that show the opposite to be the case)

[@eisenkrieg553]

​@@IvanPrintsGunsSo what do we call it when someone sabotages themselves? Incompetence?

[@IvanPrintsGuns]

Self sabotage and incompetence are different things, and they may overlap, but neither feature in a significant way in this story.

[@gmclucy]

I would love a 4-5 hour guntism video Mr. Rat

[@wanta1776]

"The commercial market wasn't interested" Even in the 60s, fudds were fudds

[@swiftyytm]

the forward assist is fun to press. it seems to keep me busy when i’m bored and have downtime

[@davidhernandez9985]

Yooo Ivan, welcome-back to the grid!

[@BenjaminGutheil]

Just a little feedback for future videos. You might want to consider putting additional details and side notes at the end of the video. It really takes you out and makes it hard to follow when you start right off the gate with hyper focused details. Especially when it takes like 15 minutes until the actual video starts.

[@jackal2484]

This video doesn't explain that much in terms of why he was wrong and most of the explanation goes like "Well, the government is sometimes wrong". The m14 vs FAL vs AR-10 test being the biggest example where you say that the only reason why the FAL fail was because it isn't a mature design, but that isn't where the issue lies at. The issue is that the test have change so the M14 have a way easier time to win. Which seems like sabotage, because you have to change something on the spot and don't give the other team time to prepare for it.

[@IvanPrintsGuns]

I think you maybe ought to watch the video again

[@DeadOfMind]

As an @wendigoon viewer, i hope he sees this. This has been a quite informative video and i think he would benefit greatly from watching your video. Thank you for this information.

[@amaricani]

Please for the love of god give me the 4 hour version

[@IvanPrintsGuns]

It's linked in the description

[@off6848]

Nah “psychological” benefits of forward assist is crazy

[@IvanPrintsGuns]

Imagine you're in complete darkness, can't risk turning a light on, and have to get a round chambered. Maybe you've got a calibrated enough pinky to feel if the front shoulder of the carrier is all the way forward, but if you're also cold or wet, this probably won't work. Wouldn't you prefer to have a way to ensure the bolt is definitely all the way forward?

[@halogod0298]

Maybe if you can’t think in the abstract, but it makes perfect sense to literally everyone else

[@doc3353]

One last comment. The part of the video that is "Ivan from the future" where you clear up some technical details that are irrelevant to the theme/thesis itself probably should've been omitted or moved to the end of the video because people who only watch a little bit of the video might see that part and write off the rest of the video as just pedantic BS that really is just gun autism.

[@GunSperg]

Can’t wait for the Stoner-Kalashnikov meeting vid

[@rebralhunter6069]

We are very interested in a video on how Stoner and Kalashnikov were able to meet up Please do it ratman. Pretty plzz

[@GaiusCaligula234]

What do you mean "how"?

[@rebralhunter6069]

@@GaiusCaligula234 he was talking about doing a video on the story of how Stoner and Kalashnikov were able to meet and shoot/talk about guns thanks to the author of the black rifle book.

[@jonahlowe7649]

Ivan have you ever thought of doing a belt fed upper? Printed or lost PLA casting either would be fantastic

[@skwissgaar_skwigelf_kdz3251]

you know who used the forward assist.... Kyle R

[@pablowentscobar]

Yes, I would like to see a video about the time Eugene Stoner and Mikhail Kalashnikov hung out shooting shotguns talking about how much better the AR is then the AK. Duh.

[@burtdanams4426]

"Hey man if you have guns that cycling so violently and quickly that they are ripping the rim off the cases in the chamber, why don't u just increase that dwUWELL TIIME by adding more time between the gas hole and bullet end by adding more barrel time length man"

[@fredrickmiltonthaddeusdoug9747]

Bro where you get that black rifle pdf, not trying to spend 300+ on out of print

[@IvanPrintsGuns]

@@fredrickmiltonthaddeusdoug9747 it's linked in the description, as mentioned in the video.

[@PhantomNoyes]

I'm looking for that 4hr vid. Would be pretty interesting I'd bet.

[@Swamp_Donkey_]

What are your thoughts on the adoption of the sig spear?

[@off6848]

Likely not going to contribute to any measurable performance on the battlefield

[@thetoneknob4493]

my buddy's friend was in veit nam and told us that they could only load 16 rnds in the 20 rnd mags and he swapped the m16 for a m2carbine that he said he ended up loving. he said he could dump a whole mag into a fist size group witch would be a nice attribute despite the bad reputation of not being a one shot man stopper. and if i wer to chose between the early m16 and an m2carbine the full auto carbine would be hard to beat. the Tommy gun always seemed like a great brush gun to me and would also be a good alternative if you could find one. but if i wer choosing one today ide pick the m4. for pretty obvious reasons.

[@macy725]

If you hunt with an AR-15 you'll need the forward assist eventually.

[@motozealot5176]

Rare Windigoon miss. I appreciate the autism friends. Now I am more informed

[@burtbiggum499]

"Rare"

[@Hornet135]

@@burtbiggum499for example

[@Trve_Kvlt]

@@burtbiggum499 Mald

[@MajikalCowpoke]

Wendigoon was right on target unlike the early AR 15

[@CertifiedSunset]

@@burtbiggum499 You got receipts chief?

[@DOKDiablo]

Please release the full 4 hour video

[@killian9314]

We all know the M in M16 stands for Mattel!

[@Toactwithoutthinking]

Yeah but were you forced to walk down a dirt path for a few minutes?

[@IvanPrintsGuns]

Asking the real questions

[@imfurrytrash6769]

Honestly great video. Maintained a respectful attitude (unlike some KZbinrs) and clearly layed out your thoughts as well as counter evidence.

[@MalleusSemperVictor]

In the InRangeTV's video series, and specifically the video "What Would Stoner Do? - In His Own Words" They actually have an interview, you know, with Eugene Stoner. At around the 13:20 mark of the video, Stoner talks about the forward assist and says that it was colloquially called the "Wheeler Button". Wonder if Stoner would lie.

[@IvanPrintsGuns]

Stoner didn't like the forward assist, true. He also thought 1-14 twist was perfect, that the edgewater buffer was good, and that there wasn't a need to chrome line barrels. He also didn't have much to do with the rifle by the time it got a forward assist, and he certainly didn't serve with the rifle. Point is, he did get some things wrong. IMR powder being "standard" in the first place was wrong too, though he admitted this one later on.

[@lmAIone]

Great video buddy, I like watching Wendigoon aswell from time to time and i know you weren’t “sh$&ing” on him either. Have a great day buddy 🤙🏼

[@Somniumfan445]

I’ve got a Romanian SAR-3 Ak and it will rip 5.56 casings in half width-wise while it extracts them, never had one remain in the chamber and cause a jam though.

[@urMom4sherriff]

Just like Slavic breeders intended