Empire at War's WEIRDEST Lore

We've already talked about the weird lore of Battlefront 2, so it's time to look at some other games of the golden age and see what Empire at War did
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[@JustDevon1]

3:42 “Since at 350 meters long, which is 13,779.5 inches for our American viewers”

[@sosaysjayrod]

For any Europeans who need help, that's 35,000 cm

[@LightningNC]

Yes, but how many football fields long is that?

[@russianoverkill3715]

Americans going out of their way to use confusing metric system

[@DracoStarcloud]

But how many Supersized Big Mac combos long is it?

[@kR-qj7rw]

@@sosaysjayrod well duh

[@versebuchanan512]

I can't believe Revan is secretly an X-Wing.

[@gopniksaurolophus6354]

X-WING MENTIONED 🗣🗣🗣🗣‼‼‼‼

[@airplanemaster1]

9:15 Mon Mothma: "Many Bothans died to bring us this screenshot."

[@zacharybickford7748]

The carrack being 13779.5 inches really puts things into perspective for an American friend like myself

[@darthrevan6316]

Almost 4 football fields. The normal kind.🇺🇸

[@TheKingofbrooklin]

How can you people live with these crazy numbers ?

[@theinquisitor8112]

@@TheKingofbrooklin because we grew up with it our entire lives, bro. that's how.

[@SamwiseOutdoors]

But what is that in hamburgers or pickup trucks?

[@calebdlara]

​@@TheKingofbrooklin in this particular case, we don't. I think Corey was making a joke. Because 13,779.5 inches is a ridiculous measurement and meters are way easier to comprehend,even for an American. 😂

[@tmandoesgamesv2.018]

I miss 2005 so much

[@gluttonousslave]

i was excited for the future

[@TheOwneroftheIC]

That's an ironic thing to say with that pfp.

[@nou8257]

Twas a simpler time I was younger and less bitter with the world games where better star wars wasn't a mess owned by disney.

[@NiiRubra]

Petroglyph, give us the penguin cut of Empire at War! The history of art demands it.

[@cptshelly]

The penguins are by far the greatest sin of cut content ever

[@26th_Primarch]

To paraphrase the clone of Starkiller... "THEY'RE CANON TO ME!!!"

[@mrzirak792]

I consider Penguin-penguins and Penguin-hoomams to be like Nabooan-humans and Nabooan-gungans. Ones are colonists and others are natives.

[@ComandanteElite]

One of my favorite lore missions in EAW is rescuing the scientists behind the X-Wing proyect, explaining how the rebels got access to a superior and modern fighter, ditching the headhunter.

[@sentrysapper45]

To be fair regarding the Nebulon-B, its purported size tends to fluctuate wildly. The Salvation in The Force Unleashed II is absolutely massive, and even the Medical Frigate in Return of the Jedi gets a sudden upscale in a brief scene of it exchanging broadsides with the Executor (there's a nearby Corellian Corvette for reference that is dwarfed far more than it should be).

[@JayTheGam3r]

That was a regular star destroyer it was broad siding with in that scene

[@sentrysapper45]

@@JayTheGam3r There's an Eckhartsladder video that claims it's the Executor based on the details of the "greeblies" along the rim and its blue colored lights. He, and by extension I, could be mistaken about that, but regardless the Nebulon-B is depicted as much larger there than it is in other scenes.

[@ig_4220]

As if the Redemption could do anything so useful without screaming for Wedge to save them

[@kR-qj7rw]

There's the return of the Jedi shot with a neb b that scales up to a star destroyer size when it's close to the executor

[@gabrielr7511]

That seems like a fairly common issue based off what I've seen. Ships in Star trek change size, growing or losing decks based on which source you're reading

[@parkerdixon-word6295]

I didn't realize that the Petroglyph *devs* were pushing for a New Sith Wars/Jedi Civil War-Era expansion, or at least content from that era, and in disagreeement with Lucasarts, who just wanted Clone Wars stuff. That's *fascinating* in no small part because of what a blank slate the New Sith Wars would've been for them to make new ships for- sure, there are designs from KotOR- the Hammerhead and Interdictor Cruisers would've probably served as capital ships, maybe someone would've used the Ravager's model from KotOR2 to make a dreadnought of some sort, and we see a good number of Sith and republic starfighters, but that wouldn't have been nearly enough material to make a full roster out of. Almost makes me feel like Petroglyph were *hunting* for corners of the game to make their own stuff, rather than just adapt stuff already in canon, which lines up with the Carrack Cruiser being turned into their custom corvette model, and things like the Consortium using a unique model of droideka, and just generally leaning on custom designs much more often than the base game factions.

[@liaml.e.5964]

Tartan Cruiser reporting...

[@morriszombine]

Fire to maximum effect!

[@M-elephant7777]

The under-utilization of Kyle Katarn in Empire at War despite him being in the game is very weird

[@ultratankie]

You might consider talking about different alternate endings and "non-canon choices" in Star Wars games, maybe comparing weird, fun endings that don't make a lot of sense (like Vader defeating Obi-Wan in Revenge of the Sith) with player choices that aren't technically contradicted anywhere else or are arguably more interesting than the "canon" outcome (like Onderon seceding from the Republic in KOTOR 2).

[@michaelandreipalon359]

In short, Star Wars desperately needs to up their Multiverse Theory angle, albeit it's just doing Elseworlds and not Crises on Infinite Galaxies. Would love to see a sequel storyline for the RotS video game adaptation alternate ending myself, even if it's the subject of a side arc for other Disney properties like a possible Crossover Nexus for Gravity Falls/Amphibia/The Owl House, the first few Kingdom Hearts, and so on. In my opinion, all choices in the KotOR duology should be canon, since that era's historical records should be already lost to the ravages of time, and that the gameplay we do for it are actually speculative simulations made after the Sith-Imperial War in-universe.

[@ultratankie]

@michaelandreipalon359 I'd say that's overthinking it a little, personally, but I'd also like to see continuations of some of those options. Restricting KOTOR player characters, especially the Exile, to the choices that give as much "good karma" as possible is very silly, as is telling us with utter certainty their genders, appearances, etc. There's a reason other RPG series leave those things ambiguous forever! It's never fun to be told outright that what you're doing didn't happen + doesn't matter.

[@cristainrodriguez5845]

Revan being in the sequel would have been very interesting. Wish we had seen it implemented thanks for sharing.

[@HonestObserver]

Empire at War definitely overused Han, to the extent that he’s even the guy who springs Tyber Zann out of jail in Forces of Corruption. They should’ve used a different Corellian, like Dash Rendar. Or a pseudo-Corellian like Lando Calrissian. Maybe even Talon Kaarde?

[@michaelandreipalon359]

He sure is a creator's pet.

[@Fire_Gaming64]

Karrde would never have done that, Zahn is a potential business rival and he generally doesn’t get personally involved in anything until the Thrawn trilogy. No clue why lando would since he’s either on cloud city or in the rebellion during this, Dash makes sense though, taking lucrative contracts and since Tyber could cause problems for the Black Sun he even has personal motivation for it

[@HonestObserver]

Funnily enough I did see a AU / Infinities fanfic where Dash and Leebo rescued Zann.

[@deadshot5007]

I thinks it's fine to not count the base game campaigns as SOLID canon as a lot of it is basically a big what IF that doesn't make sense lore wise.

[@ArroDime_]

I think an even weirder size discrepancy is that the Interceptor Frigate is shown to be around the same size as an Acclamator.

[@weijianteoh43]

Don't forget the "Victory Cruiser" with "enhanced turbolasers and ion cannons" like the AAF2

[@InvictusMatrix]

Is there actually a gameplay difference between the Victory's turbolasers and other imperial ships' turbolasers? I kinda recall hearing something about them having a higher dps but I've never tested it ingame.

[@giladpellaeon1691]

The Carrack never gets enough love. It's a rugged old workhorse that deserves more attention.

[@parkerdixon-word6295]

I wanna say there's a story on Wookiepedia somewhere about Timothy Zahn originally being really annoyed when writing *Heir to the Empire* that he was being asked to try and tie stuff into a bunch of canon material from TTRPGs right up until he read the books and understood what source books are good for- doing work for you and giving you ideas to jump off from, at which point he wrote in ships like the Carrack whenever they suited his needs as a writer.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

I still prefer the tougher Dreadnaught, what with experience on the later X-Wing games.

[@kR-qj7rw]

Thankfully they are well used in thrawn's revenge

[@vladyjr]

STAR WARS. NEEDS. MORE. PENGUINS.

[@mrzirak792]

9:56 i keep thinking that there are Penguin species on the same planet. But just like human Nabooans and Amphibious Nabooans (and all 3 gungan species are called gungans), they go by the same name. I just love idea of Post-Endor or Post-Legacy shortstack jedi knghts like Polis Massan and Penguinzo.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

Naboo, more like, not Nabooans.

[@fainyance11]

EAWX should make an unofficial Silri Sith faction using RevRev assets as an optional submod for TR

[@mrzirak792]

Silri is so underrated fr. My favourite Hero in Zann's Consortium and one of my favourite characters in game along with Urai Fen.

[@gabrielr7511]

The follow-up lore video coule be reaaly interesting. I know the Zahn Consortium shows up a few times in adventure books in the FFG Star Wars Tabletop RPG

[@Fallub]

The subscribe request alone was worth the watch. Great job. Thank you.

[@Lawrence_Talbot]

Yeah it always bothered me Wayland was in the game. This is the Emperor’s secret storehouse nobody knows about until the events of the Thrawn trilogy, yet somehow the rebels new about this location long before the destroyed the Death Star, then conveniently forgot about it for another decade… I get wanting to tie in the expanded lore into the game, but the books had been out for over a decade. Any dev could’ve easily read them. It would’ve been one thing if this was a special Empire mission like Palpatine retrieving something from it or Vader doing a tutorial mission to subjugate the native population. But the rebels, nah.

[@kR-qj7rw]

Of course they read it it even has the mountain with the shuttle at the top and the human with wood Hutts Its more like they wanted to put the map because it was iconic Its nor like they are just randomly choosen even the planet text of certain planeta reference the book storylines or movie moments Its just and ods choice for use in the campaign

[@Andrewnuva199]

I've certainly had my own fanon adventures back in the day imagining how the Sith trooper loose end from FoC could've gone. Very interesting hearing what the devs wanted to do, that would've been an interesting mix of the prized Old Republic era with the later post-ROTJ era, which had little to no representation in video games and feels like a lot of missed opprotunities.

[@JediJaras]

In terms of the Eclipse mission, in my headcanon, I actually merge that mission with a mission from Rogue Squadron III: Rebel Strike "Shipyards of Fondor". In that mission, you play as Wedge to destroy an under-construction Executor-class star dreadnought equipped with a cloaking device (It was never christened, but my favourite choices are Dagger, Rapier or Stiletto). If you're the Emperor and you want to hide information about your hidden vaults, where better than a ship that can literally hide itself away? I also shift that mission to shortly after the Battle of Endor, which is when Fondor was said to have been taken by the Alliance of Free Planets. And there, the mission doesn't end nearly as well for the As for Wayland, I honestly hadn't thought about it in a while, since I prefer Forces of Corruption (and all the mods, especially Thrawn's Revenge and Fall of the Republic) over the base game. One possibility for the penguin Pyn'gani is that they exist in-universe, but in a situation similar to the Dugs and Gran on Malastare, or even the Elom and the Elomin. In terms of stuff introduced in the Forces of Corruption game, one thing that got me thinking later was the Zann Consortium's heavy use of the StarViper-class attack platform, given how jealously Prinze Xizor hoarded its' usage for himself and Black Sun. One replacement for the standard starfighter role, at least for the missions prior to Xizor's death, would be the R-41 Starchaser (starwars.fandom.com/wiki/R-41_Starchaser).

[@OfficialRedTeamReview]

Golden Era? I'd feel as though you need to put the 90s in there too with the Kyle Katarn stuff and Shadows of the Empire, along with Rogue Squadron

[@inductivegrunt94]

I honestly really liked the Tartan Cruiser, it really grew on me before I discovered the Carrack and Lancers. But the Tartan still holds a special place in my heart because of how much I used it playing the Empire in game. The Penguins being removed was the greatest sin ever committed during the development of this game.

[@loganwendigo937]

EAW is what really got me into Star Wars legends. Even though I’ve really never treated it as canon to that continuity. Just a way to showcase how big the galaxy was Love nods like Honoghr having crashed republic ships on it and IG-88 being able to destroy the Death Star. Such a fun game

[@CoreysDatapad]

There are actually several future sources which reference elements of it

[@Ryanisacrazybanana]

Saying that Wayland was a planet not known by many to even exist, then could you guys who make Thrawns Revenge have the planet locked until Thrawn comes in like a few other planets are at the start and not available straight away 🤷‍♂️

[@McMissile3612]

Awesome video. I was always wondering about this stuff.

[@Spirit_Yoshino]

I really do find these types pf video's really fascinating to watch.

[@Night-ec7ef]

They robbed us of master jedi penguin! How dare they this is outrageous, its unfair.

[@danielkong6767]

”13779,5 inches” That was so good, man do i love the meassurments war.. Besides the hilarity of subscribkng ships and penguins, really interesting video on EAW! Would love to see some coverage of battlefront lore as well

[@FHT1883]

concerning Wayland and the Eclipse, I discount the EAW campaigns from my headcanon. videogames sacrifice lore accuracy for gameplay all the time, so they get dumped into the lowest possible canon tier.

[@FHT1883]

and I know the Essential Guide to Warfare tried to fix the Eclipse/Kuat issue, but while the battle itself is a cool idea with Surprise Squadron et al., I don't like the Alliance knowing about the Eclipse before the events of DE.

[@InvictusMatrix]

@@FHT1883 Not to mention that you have to kill Han in that mission as an objective, so it can't be canon. As for Wayland, yeah I'm not sure why they couldn't use any other imperial planet for the mission to take place on. Surely the empire has ship databases across the galaxy?

[@daemondog6774]

I think they added Wayland just becouse Jedi academy happened and Luke said something about it being former place of Anakin's Vader castles

[@Chaotic_Jackal]

@@InvictusMatrixThat’s actually a glitch. The Falcon is supposed to Hyperspace out after taking to much damage but sometimes it just sticks around allowing you to destroy it.

[@P4Tri0t420]

My favorite SW Game to this Day! I hope it will get a Remake with Battlefront 3 Integration or something, that would be epic

[@kanalkucker14]

Very interested in where EaW and Battlefront lore was picked up in legends!

[@synckillwatch]

Having the Venator has a pirate unit was a crime

[@kR-qj7rw]

Nah screw it

[@christianbryan6961]

10:01 You definitely should. Would love to see it.

[@roryscott2941]

Penguins with guns! Yes! This is what Ewoks should have been

[@MikeBison_]

The Tartan was always my favorite light Imperial space unit I fell in love with it as soon as I played vanilla EaW for the first time. I loved the aspects of its design, such a bummer it's not a constructible unit for the Empire in Thrawn's Revenge

[@PenguinofD00mxxx]

Sentient Avian species need more love in Star Wars. Penguins with blasters sound awesome.

[@Soundwave142]

I wished they added it. It be a fun little thing in Empire at War!

[@LeonSteamhawk]

Enjoyed this vid, one of these for Galactic Battlegrounds would be neat. :)

[@hawkishere1709]

Man, that Revan Campaign sounds absolutely sick. Damn shame they didn't get to make it. Would've loved to see old sith ships being modernized.

[@reilly_sharky_reese]

Dont think I didnt notice your modded Battlefront 2 with that Attack of the Clones game GAT Droid Tank

[@tiggytheimpaler5483]

It's amazing to me how rushed the development of both Battlefront games were and they were still some of the best fps games to come out the last 20 years

[@edwardkarppi436]

Great script today, Corey! Good job

[@starkillerab1582]

Let’s Hope Disney Introduces The Pyn'gani People as these penguin species on Polus bc you ain’t the only one salty about that missed opportunity

[@mrzirak792]

There could be 2 species that use the same name like Nabooans and Mustafarians.

[@kR-qj7rw]

Depends we just need a writer that knows about it Urai ferns specie got in in one of the high republic species I think? Big force sensitive bird guy

[@starkillerab1582]

@@kR-qj7rw really now? who's this force sensitive jedi bird you is talking about?

[@kR-qj7rw]

@@starkillerab1582 i forgot i havent read it i just know its real, corey knows its in one of the things he read last year

[@Argacyan]

in terms of gameplay I think games should play around the idea of asymmetry more. Doesn't even need to contradict balancing as seen with games like Battlefield 2142 or World in Conflict, both of which incorporate elements of asymmetry between the main factions. Edit: another example I used to play is American Conquest, or Dawn of the Modern World etc.

[@Mechfan666]

I bought Empire at war basically the year it came out, and it NEVER occurred to me that Han Solo shouldn't have been involved with the rebellion prior to episode 4 until you mentioned it.

[@jacoblyman9441]

The Golden Age of LucasArts is debatable. For a Star Wars fan like us? YES, the early 2000's was a great time. But, LucasArts in the 90s had all their original titles like Monkey Island, Outlaws, Sam & Max, etc. I would argue for gamers overall that was the LucasArts golden age, but the 2000's was Star Wars games golden age.

[@Kolonol1]

Empire at war IS the golden age for me XD

[@sentrysapper45]

Not to mention how there were amazing '90s Star Wars games as well, including the earlier Dark Forces/Jedi Knight games, the X-Wing series, Rebellion/Supremacy, Rogue Squadron and Episode I: Racer.

[@HonestObserver]

Maybe it was a Silver Age? Or a golden age with respect to the prequel trilogy? (With the 90s being the Lucasarts Golden Age for the OT?)

[@Kolonol1]

@@HonestObserver "I'm just saying how do we know it's an ice age?" Because....of all....the ICE!!!

[@mrzirak792]

​@@sentrysapper45 man Dark Forces: Jedi Knight deserve a sequel with remake of older games on its engine. Also i'd love a remake of Rebellion with maybe it being a mix of Galactic Battlegrounds in ground battles and Empire at War at space.

[@shortstuff780]

Holy shit, this kinda total war game play sounds amazing in star wars. You control a fraction of the republic, build a Jedi temple, a clone factory etc. Send you troops for air battles in order to clear the skies to launch your troops to take over the planet. Fight the main battles of the clone wars and help turn the tide for the Republic

[@tiggytheimpaler5483]

The KOTR story line reminds me of a game series I pitched many moons ago about a team of mercenary jedi hunters and slavagers/treasure hunters looting a battle a few years after the clone wars conclusion. They had a girl in the crew that was a member of the jedis service corps and the story was around her convincing her lover, the owner of the company hiding a stasis pod with a jedi in it aboard their command ship. The company was supposed to be a way of showing the more common attitude twords force sensatives post order 66 and during the events of the games it's revealed that the jedi in question was actually a sith acolyte and it the fleet was destroyed by the CIS because they foubd out they had found the stasis pod containing a rival apprentice candidate of a previous lord under the rule of two and the crew winds up crash landing in a sith temple and fighting their way out.

[@generalstarcat9961]

I’m just glad AotR dis put the Pyn Gani in correctly

[@shiden525]

Hey Corey I had a question about thrawns revenge. I'm playing as the empire of the hand and I can't figure out how to get boarding shuttles they aren't showing up anywhere and I'd love to use them

[@CoreysDatapad]

The EotH doesn't have a boarding shuttle just the New Republic, Hapans, Hutts, and Thrawn regime in the main Empire

[@shiden525]

@@CoreysDatapad okay thanks! Good to know!

[@heavyarms55]

Corey hates EAW confirmed.

[@zaleost]

Honestly I've always just accepted that with most SW games they're of fairly dubious canon, as gameplay often as to take priority. Although I do admittedly find it a bit interesting how bloated the list of ships/units are for some factions where they often have stuff that appear very often in specific games and are made out to be something common, but then they don't appear anywhere else. Still I suppose its a good source of units to add in to the mods when you need to fill out faction rosters...

[@fox394th]

Penguins Guerrilla Warfare. XD , ..

[@bertmert7749]

How do you get access to the venator or v wing?

[@TheKingofbrooklin]

I like to think that the Tartan Cruiser is a Carrack hull turned into an agila all out anti fighter cruiser.

[@MtAt1000]

Don't know if there is anything to interesting. How about taking a look at the Clone Wars Video game. The one with the Dark Reaper Crisis as the focus.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

A great look on the Clone Wars Multimedia Project would be schway, especially in comparison to the differentiations in The Clone Wars 2008 onwards.

[@UNFORGIVENGOD24]

Veneder? 😂😂😂

[@sergioruiz733]

Aww he's a waddling dealer of death! Star Wars needs more Penguins!

[@naksachaisaejane1982]

The dealer of death is quite an understatement. Pyngani are probably the most powerful indigenous in the game. More than Gungans or Wookiees.

[@kR-qj7rw]

9:09 YEAH RHE BOYS

[@123fakestreettt]

Tyber Zann has landed

[@captain_frost20]

What battlefront 2 mod is used in the background?

[@23DEATHNUMBER]

Wish star wars did more this

[@Empty00Eyes]

That's the Silver Age. Golden Age was TIE Fighter, SW Rebellion, X-Wing Alliance, Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight. This was a good era as well, but late 90's before Episode I came out was actually the height of quality Star Wars content based on percentage of good vs bad. Probably was around 85% or something good.

[@scockery]

Never understood why Mara Jade and Kyle were skirmish only. I never finished the story games, preferring galactic conquest and skirmish modes. Also odd that Lando and Leia weren't heroes in game.

[@ihn-90]

Revan didn't do anything wrong. He doesn't need to be brought into this

[@demonicaxeman7264]

Did we just get Canadian appropriation of American measurements?

[@MBP1918]

Revan

[@michaelandreipalon359]

For gameplay: if I have a huge nitpick, why are TIE Defenders an upgrade for the TIE Bomber, Petroglyph? The Star Wars: TIE Fighter gamer in me is irked by it, and Galactic Battlegrounds nicely made them an upgrade for the TIE Fighter and Interceptor on their end. For lore: the prior materials on the origins of the AT-AT, Gial Ackbar's joining with the Alliance, and the existence of Wayland are far more nuanced and sensible. Sorry, EaW, but your takes lean on alternate universe interpretations, let alone in-universe propaganda. I don't mind the cutting of penguins though. Fans can be way too overreactionary for the weirdest things. Addendum: And in another note, I've been meaning to ask: *was I banned on Eckhart's Ladder, since I can't seem to find my comments there anymore?*

[@christopherjustice6411]

The mission to capture the X-Wings was basically impossible.

[@datzfatz2368]

... Impossible? Really? It was a bit annyoing and took a few tries to figure out, but there was a very simple and easy safe strat to do it. Made the MIssion very long but it was definetly not impossible lol^^

[@DarthVages]

👍

[@CoolSmoovie]

I miss Legends because you were able to pick and choose what lore you accept. Only weirdos took every piece of Legends as gospel.

[@thesmilyguyguy9799]

: )